i will not bow down to a torture tool. why would i want to bow to something that killed my Savior? and why dont you stop making these dumb videos? dont question mormonism. were not judging you so its only fair. me and im sure the rest of the lds community would appreciate it if everyone stopped critcizing us. we love God the same way you do. just live and let live.
@anonazero So what is the beauty of what Christ did? Should we remember all his pain or his triumph? Or should we remember his death or his resurrection? What is the beauty of the Atonement of Christ is it his death and pain he took or him rising from the ashes of sin with power and life? Which is better to have pictures on our walls of Christ hanging from the cross in agony? or pictures of him rising from tomb in triumph? Which one do you think conforms with the Gospel of Christ? Which one do
@BOON70 its interesting that you ask all those questions and then ask which has to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ. here's why that's interesting... because the gospel makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE if you don't understand the BAD news. what we DESERVE is the cross where the wrath of almighty God CRUSHED His ONLY begotten Son so that whosoever might believe on Him would be saved.
the answer is YES we look to everything Christ did... especially the stuff that makes us uneasy.
@anonazero you think Christ would like us to remember in our minds pain or happiness? If you have two men one being sad the other happy which one shall enter the kingdom of God? Yes as a Mormon I am thankful for what Christ did but without him rising with life otherwise being resurrected and overcoming sin what would of it matter if he took all that pain on the cross? What would of mattered all the things he taught? What would of mattered all the time he spent on Earth teaching us? There is only
@BOON70 first of all, you think i'm arguing that the what God did on that cross was MORE important than what He did before and after it. you're missing the point, please understand i'm not saying that.
here's what i'm saying: the most loving thing in the history of the world was when the Father crushed His ONLY Son because the son CHOSE to be crushed for christians. its beautiful.
Christ was known as a man of sorrows. you think He always had a smile on His face?
@anonazero Any person can put it any way they want but the death of Christ doesn't mean a hill a beans without the resurrection of Christ. Christ overcoming sin and death is what is so great about the Atonement not the pain not the trials he had to endure or the sadness that came with it. It means nothing without the resurrection and the overcoming of sin. The cross is not what overcame sin his triumph was seen over sin when he was resurrected and returned into his Father. I am not trying to say
@anonazero No I am saying the cross is meaningless. Did the cross have power to kill the Christ? John 10:17-18 the cross had no power Christ willing gave his life so that he would be resurrected. 1 Cor 1:18
@BOON70 actually, Christ willingly gave His life to satisfy the demands of the wrath of God on our behalf. He chose to be crushed under the Father's wrath. you don't understand why we love the cross so much because you have no idea what happened on it.
@anonazero Did you read the verse before it? For the Jews require "a sign". What is the sign? Were there not many signs given that would show the coming of the Savior and that Christ was he said he was according to the Old Testament? Many of the which talked about the crucifixion of Christ.
@anonazero its not important because he had to take on those things to make it possible, but the part we should focus on is that he overcame and he made it possible for us to overcome. In what part of the Atonement did he overcome? It wasn't while he was on the Cross or during any of his mortal life. So when was it? I think anyone would know the answer. Without this one event all things of the universe would have no purpose. None of us would be able to return to live with God. His overcoming is
@anonazero What was there to correct I said he did not overcome sin and death I didn't say anything about temptation you did. Without the resurrection of Christ his death would be meaningless. Without Christ overcoming sin his life would of been meaningless. Tell me how is the Cross more important than Christ? Is the Cross going to save you? Which should we remember more Christ resurrection or his death? When a friend of yours die what do you want to remember about them most? All their pain they
@anonazero took before they died? Or about there life and the things you learned from them. Sure it is important to us to know how they went but we don't make the pentacle of their life. So should we make the pentacle of Christ life his death? or should it be his resurrection? It amazes me that people say the greatest thing that Christ ever did was die on the cross but that wouldn't matter at all if Christ wasn't resurrected. So whats so great about the life of Christ? How did Christ make it
@BOON70 here's what you don't seem to get. if Christ came to earth, lived the perfect life, and just ascended back to heaven you'd die and go to hell like you deserve for all your treason against God.
@anonazero It is true that the Greek word stauros used in the NT means a "pole" or "stake" driven into the ground, and not specifically a cross. Calling the upright portion a "pole" does not, however, tell us whether a crossbeam was attached to it or not. The most common form of Roman crucifixion was to use the crux commissa, which used a permanent pole driven into the ground, to which a cross beam was attached at the time of execution. This formed the shape of a capital 'T' and
@anonazero therefore is also called the Tau Cross (it is also referred to as St. Anthony's Cross). This is different than the Latin cross, which has a lowered cross piece, forming the classic "cross" shape (somewhat like a lower-case 't'). Accordingly, when the scripture talks about Jesus carrying his cross to the place of execution, it probably was not a huge Latin cross as depicted in the movies (such as Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ), but a crossbeam called the patibulum,
@anonazero which would then be placed over the permanently entrenched stauros or stake. Thus, it is true that the Greek does not specify a cross per se. However, historical evidence regarding the Roman practice of crucifixion makes it abundantly clear that Jesus was crucified on a type of cross, even if not quite the traditional Latin cross commonly portrayed. For Latter-day Saints, the key point is not Jesus' precise method of execution, but that his suffering, death, and resurrection
@anonazero cross? It does to remember Christ. You wanted to know why Mormons don't worship the cross. I gave you an answer and you were not happy with that answer say all you say now is strawman. Maybe I should say strawman to you every time you ask a question. To be honest when people say strawman to me I think they need to grow up.
@anonazero A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position, twisting his words or by means of [false] assumptions. Wow that sounds like you.
@anonazero This whole time I been trying to say it wasn't the cross that atoned for the sins of the world. It wasn't the cross that made the resurrection possible that was the power of God, not the cross. I have also showed that the cross you hold so sacred most likely doesn't even resemble the one Christ was hung too. To be honest you sound like those people that yelled at me when I was younger I was going to hell. My only comment to them thats real Christian like isn't it. If Christians want
@BOON70 you have lots of points, not just that one, and most of them have nothing to do with the topic at hand. i asked a simple question requiring a simple yes or no and you give four paragraphs of information about the method of execution when that method of execution wasn't the way that Christ atoned for the sins of all who would trust the He is God and He paid the debt that WE owe to God for our treason against His throne.
@anonazero Wow the only thing you can say is strawman that is real good. Is that what all people say when they find they might be wrong about something is strawman. That is real rich. About being Mormon or Christian I guess it depends on who you ask most of the Christian world considers me a non Christian but most people that know me consider me as a Christian. Even by definition I am considered Christian. But yeah I am a Mormon. I must also add were does it say in the Bible to remember the
@BOON70 you apparently aren't very acquainted with the rules of logic. allow me to educate you. a strawman fallacy is when you are attacking an idea that i do not believe. in this case you are attacking the idea that i believe the cross is a sacred thing. since i do not believe this (and have made that clear) you are now guilty of a strawman FALLACY.
i have a very simple question for you: do you deserve to go to hell?
@anonazero to go around saying crap like that then say love your brother on the next count me out. I don't want to be associated with a bunch of hypocrites.
@BOON70 if you don't want to associate with a bunch of hypocrites you're going to have to put a bullet through your brain or something because not only is everyone you know a hypocrite... but so are you.
and just to make something very clear. the cross is not sacred. what Christ DID on that cross is sacred, therefore, the cross is just a symbol or an icon. an icon that the NT writers (thus, the holy spirit) feel necessary to constantly point to. so i look to it and point to it.
@anonazero Maybe I should ask the same question but I am not going to answer the question because its a loaded question. But I will say we don't have crosses because we do not worship a dead Christ or look to but a living Christ. So in my opinion you should were stones not crosses.
@anonazero that made it all matter one singular even gave purpose to all things that was the resurrection and the overcoming of sin not the pain he took on the cross or his death.
@BOON70 but thats why you guys dont understand how your sins can be paid for all at once. you don't understand that because you have no idea why we look to the cross as salvation instead of death. you see a tool for execution and i see my sin executed so that i can be perfectly righteous in the sight of God, so that i can LOVE God, so that He can ADOPT me as a son, and so that i can bask in His majesty for eternity.
At least it's not the ENTIRE story behind our omitting of the cross from our worship. After all we still use the New Testament phrasing about bearing our own crosses. Etc.
We simply do not believe that it was Christ's suffering on the cross that redeemed mankind, but primarily his suffering in Gethsemane. If the cross wasn't at all important to us why would we talk so much about Christ keeping the prints of the nails in his hands?
I haven't watched any of this guy's other videos but he seems like a respectable man with a good spirit. As a Mormon who loves the bible I can appreciate the focus that modern and ancient Christendom places on the cross. The argument that we don't use the cross because it's like wearing a weapon around our necks is in my opinion not a very good one, and I don't think any of our church leaders would use that to explain our stance on it.
Its quite a simple answer why we dont use a cross in our worship. Why venerate a tool of murder? Does Jackie Kennedy go around with a necklace of the gun that murdered her husband? No who why would we go around with a cross, the tool that killed Jesus around our neck?
@letusreason42262 Everyone knows we are to never put any image before God. 1 Cor 1:18 Paul states the cross does not save but the power of God does. By what power did Christ overcome sins? By the cross or by the power of God? By what power did Christ overcome death? By the cross or by the power of God? I would state the answer is obvious but I guess to some it is not. The cross has no power and never did only God did. So what is should we worship? Christ asked the same question. Matt 23:16-19
@BOON70 But in a different sense of course. Which is more important the Gold or the temple that sanctifies it? This is actually a trick question to the Pharisees but also let them see what was more important. Otherwise we shouldn't worship the temple either because who is that sanctifies the temple? Some may say will the man who came and blessed it by who's power is it sanctified? That is whom we should worship.
Wearing a cross means im more focused on his death, and not his life. Jesus came to teach us how to live. and he died for us, but thats like me saying my friend was executed would i wear a electric chair?
I'm a Mormon and I have no objection to the cross. Fish and the cross were all symbols of early Christianity. The LDS reason not to use the cross is based on the desire to shift the emphasis from a cross to the resurrection. The Catholic church and many Protestants use the cross, and I'm okay with that. But it's also okay for Mormons not to use the cross. They just shouldn't be critical of others using it or any other appropriate symbol.
Mormons can wear crosses, there isn't any rule saying a Mormon can't wear a cross. The Church itself chooses not to adopt this symbol as a trademark per-se but that doesn't mean we can't wear one or have a cross depicted or a graven image of one around our necks. It's true that it's not the cultural norm in the Church but worshiping God shouldn't be about images and culture. But if that helps you remember his atonement, then 'more power to ya'.
will you still wear a cross after all the bible texts that say not to make or worship them?
Isn't funny how the mentioning of the cross is even being mentioned before Jesus even died and was "put up in a cross." Did he know he was going to die like that and told people to wear cross before hand?
If you were to die by gun, would you want people to remember you with a gun?
Now going back to your texts. You think they mean a literal cross that were suppose to pick up. Well first of all Jesus Real cross was not that small. so obviously you guys know that in a sense Jesus was not being literal about carrying a cross. Jesus was saying that his worshipers will face problems, attacks and whatnot, and the bible uses metaphors to say that. Eph 6:11-16 talks about putting on armor, a shield and holding sword but these metaphors the shield is the word the bible.
The real way your suppose to worship god is in john 4:23,24 which states that the true worshipers will follow the father (not Jesus) in spirit and truth because thats the type of worshipers god is looking for. no where does its state a idol or any type of mediator which is your cross. Now it also states god is a spirit and they must worship him only in spirit and truth. Which means NO idols can represent him because god is not of flesh or of a earthly element.
I read your bible text even though mine doesn't say cross. But no where does say or mean to literally pick up a cross its metaphorical (ill explain more later). no where does it say make a cross and it will represent me. Instead the bible teaches making these idols are PAGAN. Exodus 20:4, 5 says not make or worship them in any way. Lev 26:1 says the same. 2 Cor 6:16, Isa 42: 8. Jer 10:14,15 says you feel shame and its a mockery to god to even give attention to idols.
I dont have problem with the crux provided you dont believe it has special powers like the mormons believe about their underwear, jw's believe he died on a stick but any ancient history about about the roman empire will show fact after fact they used the cross (T).
@1Minute60Seconds- If the Bible said about guns what it says about the cross, then I'd say that is a good idea. Have you bothered to look up the verses yet?
Lmfao @ king James bible. Pretty much standard amongst bible scholars and linguists to be the worst translation and butchery of the bible for a very long time. Gg shakespearian English bible
Catholism makes absoluteley no sense whatsoever. I have never stept foot in a catholic church but from what ive heard, the things they practice is nonsense. Religion has to do with studying the bible and doing what it says, now, there are different versions of the bible but there is one bible that is the correct one and I believe that it is Jehovahs Witness'. If you just once attended a Jehovahs Witness meeting you would instantly be interested especially if you know the bible.
The word cross is not used in the Greek writtings, the Greek word to for Jesus' tool of execution is Stauros = upright stake or pale. Other word in Greek used is Xylon =upright stake without a crossbeam, the 2 words are comparable to how we use the words car or automobile in designating a mode of transportation.
Only flawed translations use the word cross and only idolatrous Christians use it in worship
The cross used to feature on the front of the Watchtower magazines. I think the organisation continued using the cross symbol, even after the inspection, where Jesus declared the organisation to be clean.
@ExLuedenscheider this is true..however, as time went on..and our worship was/is refined, we cleanse ourselves of every defilement. It wasn't until the late 20s or early 30s that we came to the realization that the word cross is not in the bible..and the the prophecies concerning christ's death entailed a stake. Then, as we began to undersatnd that the cross is an ancient symbol of pagan/demon worship, we understood the goal of satan to pollute the worship of the true God in every way.
Not only was the cross used as a pagan symbol by many religions around the world, but it is in direct violation of the "no idol worship" teachings of the bible (Exodus 20:4,5). The inclusion of the cross into Christianity was a move by 3rd century "christian" religious leaders in order to appeal to the pagans who at the time used the cross in worship of the Tyrian god Tammuz and the Chaldean god Bel. Would you want someone to wear a gun necklace if your son was killed by one? Same with god.
@RealBibleAnswers Don't you think it's a bit strange, that it took the Faithful and Discreet Slave nearly 2000 years to discover something as basic as that?
So you went ahead and listed a bunch of places where the cross is mentioned in the bible, errr... cool.... now you should probably list all the places where it's stated as something you should do....
Im not saying its wrong I think its wrong.. but Im just saying whats the purpose? you werent instructed to, it seems more like a fashion statement more then anything else.... or do you really need a necklace with a cross to remind yourself you're a christian ?....
the egyptians used the cross and its a pagan symbol.quick question for you please tell me where in the bible god commands us to use the cross as worship,he does say not to commit idolatry and create a graven image and bow down to it.
When we look at the Bible we see that the number 7 is God's divine number. It signifies perfection and completeness in God's eyes.
Currently there are over 7 million people soon to be in number 7,777,777 (7x7) who are a witness (7 letters) about God's name Jehovah (7 letters) who obey Jesus and "Preach the Good News of the Kingdom" (7 words) and the word Kingdom is 7 letters!!
But I should also say I have nothing against those who want to wear crosses or put crosses on their churches. I do not wish to cause envy, hate, or malice between people or myself. Causing such things are not of God. Is it not so that we teach the Gospel of Love? How can we teach it with hate on our lips?
We don't wear crosses because its about Christ death. The great thing about the Atonement of Christ is not his death but his resurrection. So wearing a cross is like looking to Christ death not his overcoming death which is what the Atonement is about.
@Boon70, if the figure of Jesus is still on it than I can see your point, however, Jesus said pick up your cross daily. Some people wear it as a constant reminder of His love for us by dying in our place.
Maybe what he meant was that for us to pick up our cross he didn't say his cross ever. Maybe we should do as Christ did and put the man of sin to death ever day that is in us till we become pure as he is.
Yes,that's what I stated above. We are to carry our cross daily. One dies to himself, his will, everyday.
And I agree, the transformation that you speak of (being made pure) can only come from the Holy Spirit. Only the Holy Spirit teaches the things of the Father in Jesus Christ, see 1John 2:25-27.
True Christ followers or Christians are taught and led by the Holy Spirit. We have a relationship with the Father in Jesus Christ not merely a knowledge of His being.
i cant believe that peolpe argue about how Christ died! the fact is that he died for us! who cares if it was a cross or a stake... Although it was a cross it does not matter!
One of the 10 commandments is "do not make yourself a carved image if ANY sort" the bible is filled with warnings about graven images used for worship.
IF you really research it Jesus was not even hung on a cross but merely a straight pole.
Find an encyclopedia.
If your son or daughter was killed by a knife or a gun would you make a replica of that knife or gun and wear it? Not too morbid is it.
@STRYQ, not so fast.......Romans put Jesus to death by crucifiction using a cross. I can't remember which one of the Apostles was hung upside down on a cross, either Paul or Peter but he too was put to death by Romans. I don't wear one, I die daily to myself which is what Jesus said to do.
I do believe that Jesus hung from a cross. In my reseach I found that crosses were used by Romans and Romans put Christ to death. It has nothing to do with Jesus except that it symbolizes His sacrifice for mankind.
The attitude should be reverence and love. The reason any EDUCATED (I cant stress that enough) Mormon would ask that is b/c LDS are taught from birth that the cross was indeed needed. And being a convert to the church I understand. But the reason LDS do NOT wear crosses is b/c anyone can die upon a cross. It was Christs life that made Him a worthy sacrifice upon the cross. We, therefore, celebrate His life, not His device of torture until His death.
Yes the JW are the ONLY religion that correct errors in understanding and makes adjustments. Unlike false religion who do everything OPPOSITE what the bible actually says. That's right, I said everything.
Actually, JWs do what the men up at the Watchtower headquarters say under threat of excommunication. Please read what Jesus says in John 5:39-40, 6:37, and 14:6.
If you want to wear a cross around your neck, I don't have a problem with that.
Just as you should not have a problem with anyone who doesn't, or doesn't understand why you would wear a representation of an instrument of torture so heinous that it boggles the mind.
Yes, the cross is important as it is where Christ died for our sins, but ask yourself:
What would the cross mean if there was no resurrection of Christ? Or if you knew nothing about His resurrection from the dead?
Christ died on a cross, Constantine the Roman Emperor claimed to have had a vision at Milvian Bridge that told him to conquer under this sign. They put crosses on their shields. Okay Constantine was a roman and knew the manner in which men were crucified. JWs are grasping at straw. They love majoring in minor issues to distract there followers from more important matters. Up until the late 30's the WT pictured Christ as dying on the traditional cross. They use the watch tower as a symbol.
same as on the comment i wrote on your birthday video. Jehovah wants us to worship Himself and not any kind of cross or symbol/object/person(like a priest)
In books like insight you can clearly read that a cross in the Hebrew or Greek way now would mean a simple Pole, or a "pole of justice" with EVENTUALLY another crossbeam on it. Also the cross stands for the holy trinity, speaks for itself i guess. And the old testament prohibits us to copy the "cross" where Jezus died on in any way.
Also the egyptians had a variations on the cross standing for the penis of men, it was placed at their graves. (no JW-talk only, real facts...)
Look the Romans crucified people on crosses, and G4716
σταυρός
stauros
stow-ros'
From the base of G2476; a stake or post (as set upright), that is, (specifically) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively exposure to death, that is, self denial; by implication the atonement of Christ: - cross.
It can be a stake or a cross or more complex struction. The common execution method was for men to carry the cross member to the place of execution.
There is also some graffiti from the first century that shows somoene making fun of a Christian and has a donkey headed man drawn on a cross with the caption
JW dont bellieve in the cross. The romans were prone to cruxify people. The cross has been used in other religions that are not christian like scientology...
Cross or stake, it doesn't matter. A life was taken. Religions try to use anything and everything to prove that they are the right religion. Guess what? Jesus does not use religion for his purposes, men do!
I dont want to impose but: Historically speaking history proves that the torture stake was in fact were criminals were crucified, it wasnt until later after catholicism started that the cross was even symbolised.. Before that the cross shape itself was a part of a pegan symbol. As someone who studies religion I must say the NWT is only a Revised version not incomplete in any way only updated to bring hebrew text to our modern day understanding 2000 plus years in the lingo gap. Think bout it..
can't answer for the mormons but the reasoning behind JW's not having anything to do with the cross I can help with. first they don't believe he was actualy put on a cross but rather on a stake. secondly I can't remember the exact verse but it says not to make images of anything in heaven or on earth, somthing to that effect anyway. So they consider a cross in the same context as the golden calf in moses's time. hope that helps.
we do not believe that jesus died on a cross. he died on a torture stake. here is the first scripture you posted Matthew 10: 38 in the new world translation bible. this bible is the holy scriptures but in english spoken in our day:
"And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me."
Wrong, just an opinion based translation without any historical backup nor biblical backup. No where in the bible does it back up the claim that He died on a stake.
Only the NWT says it unfortunately. Not the manuscripts not the copies of the manuscripts.
heres a little example why not to have or wear a cross...1. it comes from pagan origins. 2. where ever it says cross replace with pole or tree. 3. my mother was murdered with a knife...so your idea is,.that you honer the greatest man who ever was, you wear the instrument of murder around your neck or in your home! are you suggesting that everyone in my family wear small knifes around our necks, in order to pay respect towards our mother? who's very live was put to an end by a knife! i think not!
That is exactly what it is, Pagan origin and its really useless these cross's that you guys wear, is that how you honor your Lord Jesus? By wearing a cross? That overshadows his purpose.
So, Mr. EvidenceMinistries, or mr. Self Proclaimed preacher of God without authorization,
No where in the bible states that the First century Church of Christ members carried a form of the cross or anything resembling the death. If you do, you're only carrying on the ridiculous adaptation of the Catholic church's man-made doctrine.
Why would you even want to challenge Jehova's witnesses or Mormons when they think they're gonna be rulers of the celestial kingdom? LOL.
So if Christ died in a Mercedez Benz, would you carry a Mercedez car toy around? Its ridiculous, it was a introduced doctrine by the Catholic church that hundreds of thousands of churches adopted. Only for the sake of a remembrance. You would wonder why the Protestant church never puts up a graven image of Christ on the cross yet puts Christ's cross on the altar. What a deception!
Read your KJV Bible. The word is cross. He died on a Roman cross. We know what crosses looked like from records of history. Jesus is empashasizing the need to die to self-will, as He did. The cross reminds us of both in our relationship with Him.
HAHAHAAHAHA! you need a torture device to remind you of your relationship with Jehovah, and to remind you of how his son died????!!!!!man.....you got a long way to go....STTTTTTEEEEEEEEEERIIIIIIIIIIKKKKKKKKKE 11!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. Jehovah is gods name in english 2. Yaweh is gods name in hebrew ... it has been this way for hundreds of years whether you like it or not! it just is.
JHWH and YHWH is not the only name that God came about and said.
Here are a few:
Elohim (Gen. 1:1), El Elyon (Gen. 14:18), El Shaddai (Gen. 17:1),
and the three-word name of God EHYEH-ASHER-EHYEH in Exodus 3:14 is translated as "I AM WHO I AM" in most English versions of the Old Testament.
The 1962 Jewish Publication Society translation of the Torah despaired of coming up with an accurate rendition, and just left the words in their Hebrew original
Paul wrote that God forbid he should glory save in the cross of Christ & that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who perish, but the power of God to salvation to those who believe. Do *you* believe in the power of the cross?
That is such a literal conclusion. If so, we should then be taking up our giant heavy wooden cross.
He meant that we should be obedient all the way through death so that we may achieve salvation. Its absurd to think that we should carry a cross all around, the whole reason why you guys carry a cross around is either for the unfaithful who just do it because, they believe they should and for those who carry it around because, they need a reminder.
Remember that Jesus' death was like the copper serpent. People looked to the serpent to be saved. But they did wrong after that.
"He it was that removed the high places and broke the sacred pillars to pieces and cut down the sacred pole and crushed to pieces the copper serpent that Moses had made; for down to those days the sons of Israel had continually been making sacrificial smoke to it, and it used to be called the copper serpent-idol."
What is that image of the fallen angel with the trumpet to his mouth Mormons call Moroni? Moroni - really? Moroni masqueraded as an angel of light, bringing a false gospel & beginning a young, upstart religion whose numbers of converts & missionaries have been steadily & steeply declining since 2001. Check this out in the LDS publication Ensign. Paul teaches that the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness.
The attitude of Christians towards the cross depends upon their view of Christ. Since the LDS Church claims to recieve guidance from the living and resurrected Christ, we do not pay great homage to the cross which we view as the symbol of the dying Christ which is generally regarded with great importance by those Christian denominations that do not believe that Christ presently guides His church through prophets as He did in the Bible.
who cares!!!! Its none of your business what I worship or dont. Get a job!!! Wearing a cross does not make a person better or worse. You will be much happier and content if you except people for who and what they are. They arent hurting you in any way.
I'd say wear the cross not to worship (because that's unnecessary), but to show people that you're a Christian, that you believe in God (whatever the name) and that you're proud of your belief.
You obviously need attention. I would ask that if you need to waste your time looking for faults in people,, please direct it toward terrorists or others that are out to hurt people, not good christians.
The religion of Mormons emphatically IS Christianity. It is possible that the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is also Christianity but I cannot make a positive judgement on a belief system that I am not familiar with. A very good lesson to keep in mind, I might add.
@MrDojo5 images and idols are detestable to jehovah as stated in deut. as a parent, if my child dies by means of a torture device, there is no way i would want my child remembered by everyone, wearing an image of the torture device that killed them, this thinking is from one source, satan who is taunting jehovah, peace to you brother, 1 John 5; 19-21
JOHN 17;3 JESUS SAID ; THIS MEANS EVERLASTING FILE !! theiR taking in knowledge of you[yhwh/jah/jehovah] the ONLY TRUE GOD and of whom you have sent forth ...jesus christ
it says in 1cor 10:14 ''free from idolatry'' and on psalms 115:4-8 says that we shall not worship or have idols. heres a question 4 u.....if u have so many questions then y dont u just ask a JW in person, we always go door 2 door. or u can contact us. We give free bible studies if u would like one. I recommend u speak with one of us and accept a bible study, youll see how many of ur questions will b answered.
I've had numerous Bible studies with JWs. They don't have answers either. The best they can do is quote a WT reference. Sorry, but I do not view that as authoritative.
Btw, what makes you think I worship the cross by wearing one?
Your questions do not surprise me for they are commonly asked therefore we JW are prepared (or at least we SHOULD) just like you, i've been making my own research, and in 1cor.10:14, God encourages US to stay away from idolatry. How is it used in most religions? Most WORSHIP the cross, something god said to NOT do. NOW a question for YOU, If you have SO many questions for Jehovah's Witnesses,then why dont u accept a bible study with them? I challenge you to do that.
I have had many Bible studies with JWs and welcome them any time they are offered. Christians do NOT worship the cross. It is just like a wedding ring. I don't worship it either.
Uh... that isn't the first of the 10 commandments. Read your Bible. I know of no Christian who worships the cross. Married people wear wedding rings for the same purpose as wearing a cross. Does that mean they worship their spouse?
Who cares wether you wear a cross or a voodoo doll. We each have a right to wear or believe what we wish. If I choose to not to wear a cross, it doesnt make me anyless of a christian does it? Why do you waste so much of your time attacking mormans? Could you be weeding your garden or something?
look if jesus christ wasnt killed on a stake but instead was shot, would you have a gun as your necklace? the bible says not to make images or idols for worship. that thing around your neck looks like one, and so do the statues in churches of jesus, mary, saints etc etc. the point is the bible forbids these as a form of worship. its there in black and white in the ten commandments.
I am neither a JW or Mormon but I have to stand up for truth we should have no graven images. aquntumsingularity has the correct view. The focus of one's life should not be the cross but rather our focus should directly be on jesus himself who died for our sins. We are to live our lives for jesus not wear/worship Roman death instruments.
If you actually look at the verses you prescribed you will notice that the focus is what happened on the cross rather then the physical object itself.
If Jesus was killed with a gun and the New Testament said about guns what it says about the cross, then YES, I would wear a gun around my neck. Having a cross necklace is worship just like wearing my wedding ring means I worship my wife. Did you even bother to look up the verses in the more info button?
i just said that its in the ten commandments that you shouldnt make for yourselve a graven image for use as worship. you said 'a cross necklace is worship' sorry to be blunt, but this is very basic knowlege that God commanded us not to do and it infuriates me that you twist the words of the bible to justify wearing a small necklace that it would appear you are so dependant on for use as worship. surly if you do not want to risk displeasing god you simply wouldnt take the risk.
How about you read the rest of what I wrote? I said that wearing a cross necklace is worship JUST LIKE wearing a wedding ring... I could have put it another way. Wearing a cross is worship IF wearing a wedding ring is worship... Reading the context changes every thing doesn't it? ;-)
Your example of taking my comment out of context is EXACTLY what the WT does with the Bible. Read the whole thing and try to understand what it is saying instead of trying to make it say what you want.
yes but having a wedding ring isnt worship. its a symbol. you dont worship your wife, you are simply in subjection to her like she is to you.
frankly im not taking things out of context. im mearly telling you what the bible says. now how about you tell me what the bible says for once, instead of questioning it, and tell me where Jesus said that it would be alright to make the cross(a roman torture instrument) a symbol for worship?
i beg to differ on the whole WT argument you claim.
You ask me to have an open mind but all you do is knock JW and Mormons. I know that all of this is far from the truth the way the life.
georgebx 1 week ago
i will not bow down to a torture tool. why would i want to bow to something that killed my Savior? and why dont you stop making these dumb videos? dont question mormonism. were not judging you so its only fair. me and im sure the rest of the lds community would appreciate it if everyone stopped critcizing us. we love God the same way you do. just live and let live.
alex2993ify 3 months ago
@alex2993ify we dont bow to the cross, we cling to it, cause thats where God came and died to set us free from our sin.
you see a torture tool because you don't know the beauty of what Christ did.
anonazero 3 months ago
@anonazero So what is the beauty of what Christ did? Should we remember all his pain or his triumph? Or should we remember his death or his resurrection? What is the beauty of the Atonement of Christ is it his death and pain he took or him rising from the ashes of sin with power and life? Which is better to have pictures on our walls of Christ hanging from the cross in agony? or pictures of him rising from tomb in triumph? Which one do you think conforms with the Gospel of Christ? Which one do
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 its interesting that you ask all those questions and then ask which has to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ. here's why that's interesting... because the gospel makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE if you don't understand the BAD news. what we DESERVE is the cross where the wrath of almighty God CRUSHED His ONLY begotten Son so that whosoever might believe on Him would be saved.
the answer is YES we look to everything Christ did... especially the stuff that makes us uneasy.
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero you think Christ would like us to remember in our minds pain or happiness? If you have two men one being sad the other happy which one shall enter the kingdom of God? Yes as a Mormon I am thankful for what Christ did but without him rising with life otherwise being resurrected and overcoming sin what would of it matter if he took all that pain on the cross? What would of mattered all the things he taught? What would of mattered all the time he spent on Earth teaching us? There is only
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 first of all, you think i'm arguing that the what God did on that cross was MORE important than what He did before and after it. you're missing the point, please understand i'm not saying that.
here's what i'm saying: the most loving thing in the history of the world was when the Father crushed His ONLY Son because the son CHOSE to be crushed for christians. its beautiful.
Christ was known as a man of sorrows. you think He always had a smile on His face?
God isn't always smiling.
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero Any person can put it any way they want but the death of Christ doesn't mean a hill a beans without the resurrection of Christ. Christ overcoming sin and death is what is so great about the Atonement not the pain not the trials he had to endure or the sadness that came with it. It means nothing without the resurrection and the overcoming of sin. The cross is not what overcame sin his triumph was seen over sin when he was resurrected and returned into his Father. I am not trying to say
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 so what you're saying is that without the cross the resurrection is completely meaningless?
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero No I am saying the cross is meaningless. Did the cross have power to kill the Christ? John 10:17-18 the cross had no power Christ willing gave his life so that he would be resurrected. 1 Cor 1:18
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 1 Corinthians 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,
it seems like folly to you, it seems meaningless, because you have no idea what it means.
anonazero 2 months ago
@BOON70 actually, Christ willingly gave His life to satisfy the demands of the wrath of God on our behalf. He chose to be crushed under the Father's wrath. you don't understand why we love the cross so much because you have no idea what happened on it.
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero Did you read the verse before it? For the Jews require "a sign". What is the sign? Were there not many signs given that would show the coming of the Savior and that Christ was he said he was according to the Old Testament? Many of the which talked about the crucifixion of Christ.
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 of course i did. i read the whole bible, sir.
there were many signs but the point was that they weren't what THEY thought God should do.
what does that have anything to do with this conversation?
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero its not important because he had to take on those things to make it possible, but the part we should focus on is that he overcame and he made it possible for us to overcome. In what part of the Atonement did he overcome? It wasn't while he was on the Cross or during any of his mortal life. So when was it? I think anyone would know the answer. Without this one event all things of the universe would have no purpose. None of us would be able to return to live with God. His overcoming is
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 oh and to correct another point of error where Christ overcame was every moment of His mortal life when He overcame temptation in every way.
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero What was there to correct I said he did not overcome sin and death I didn't say anything about temptation you did. Without the resurrection of Christ his death would be meaningless. Without Christ overcoming sin his life would of been meaningless. Tell me how is the Cross more important than Christ? Is the Cross going to save you? Which should we remember more Christ resurrection or his death? When a friend of yours die what do you want to remember about them most? All their pain they
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 you're guilty of a strawman fallacy. in short, you're attacking an idea that i do not and never did hold.
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero took before they died? Or about there life and the things you learned from them. Sure it is important to us to know how they went but we don't make the pentacle of their life. So should we make the pentacle of Christ life his death? or should it be his resurrection? It amazes me that people say the greatest thing that Christ ever did was die on the cross but that wouldn't matter at all if Christ wasn't resurrected. So whats so great about the life of Christ? How did Christ make it
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 here's what you don't seem to get. if Christ came to earth, lived the perfect life, and just ascended back to heaven you'd die and go to hell like you deserve for all your treason against God.
do you agree with that?
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero It is true that the Greek word stauros used in the NT means a "pole" or "stake" driven into the ground, and not specifically a cross. Calling the upright portion a "pole" does not, however, tell us whether a crossbeam was attached to it or not. The most common form of Roman crucifixion was to use the crux commissa, which used a permanent pole driven into the ground, to which a cross beam was attached at the time of execution. This formed the shape of a capital 'T' and
BOON70 2 months ago
@anonazero therefore is also called the Tau Cross (it is also referred to as St. Anthony's Cross). This is different than the Latin cross, which has a lowered cross piece, forming the classic "cross" shape (somewhat like a lower-case 't'). Accordingly, when the scripture talks about Jesus carrying his cross to the place of execution, it probably was not a huge Latin cross as depicted in the movies (such as Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ), but a crossbeam called the patibulum,
BOON70 2 months ago
@anonazero which would then be placed over the permanently entrenched stauros or stake. Thus, it is true that the Greek does not specify a cross per se. However, historical evidence regarding the Roman practice of crucifixion makes it abundantly clear that Jesus was crucified on a type of cross, even if not quite the traditional Latin cross commonly portrayed. For Latter-day Saints, the key point is not Jesus' precise method of execution, but that his suffering, death, and resurrection
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 are you christian, mormon, or JW?
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero cross? It does to remember Christ. You wanted to know why Mormons don't worship the cross. I gave you an answer and you were not happy with that answer say all you say now is strawman. Maybe I should say strawman to you every time you ask a question. To be honest when people say strawman to me I think they need to grow up.
BOON70 2 months ago
@anonazero A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position, twisting his words or by means of [false] assumptions. Wow that sounds like you.
BOON70 2 months ago
@anonazero atoned for the sins of all humanity, not the cross. (See 2 Nephi 9:7–8, Alma 34:12.)
BOON70 2 months ago
@anonazero This whole time I been trying to say it wasn't the cross that atoned for the sins of the world. It wasn't the cross that made the resurrection possible that was the power of God, not the cross. I have also showed that the cross you hold so sacred most likely doesn't even resemble the one Christ was hung too. To be honest you sound like those people that yelled at me when I was younger I was going to hell. My only comment to them thats real Christian like isn't it. If Christians want
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 you have lots of points, not just that one, and most of them have nothing to do with the topic at hand. i asked a simple question requiring a simple yes or no and you give four paragraphs of information about the method of execution when that method of execution wasn't the way that Christ atoned for the sins of all who would trust the He is God and He paid the debt that WE owe to God for our treason against His throne.
instead you are content to bicker with strawmen.
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero Wow the only thing you can say is strawman that is real good. Is that what all people say when they find they might be wrong about something is strawman. That is real rich. About being Mormon or Christian I guess it depends on who you ask most of the Christian world considers me a non Christian but most people that know me consider me as a Christian. Even by definition I am considered Christian. But yeah I am a Mormon. I must also add were does it say in the Bible to remember the
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 you apparently aren't very acquainted with the rules of logic. allow me to educate you. a strawman fallacy is when you are attacking an idea that i do not believe. in this case you are attacking the idea that i believe the cross is a sacred thing. since i do not believe this (and have made that clear) you are now guilty of a strawman FALLACY.
i have a very simple question for you: do you deserve to go to hell?
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero to go around saying crap like that then say love your brother on the next count me out. I don't want to be associated with a bunch of hypocrites.
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 if you don't want to associate with a bunch of hypocrites you're going to have to put a bullet through your brain or something because not only is everyone you know a hypocrite... but so are you.
and just to make something very clear. the cross is not sacred. what Christ DID on that cross is sacred, therefore, the cross is just a symbol or an icon. an icon that the NT writers (thus, the holy spirit) feel necessary to constantly point to. so i look to it and point to it.
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero Wow I thought it said in the scriptures to keep your eye single to the glory of God not the cross.
BOON70 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BOON70 you think a lot of things that the bible doesn't say.
anonazero 2 months ago
@BOON70 are you going to answer the question? maybe you missed it. here's it again:
do you deserve to go to hell?
its not essay, its multiple choice. yes or no.
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero Maybe I should ask the same question but I am not going to answer the question because its a loaded question. But I will say we don't have crosses because we do not worship a dead Christ or look to but a living Christ. So in my opinion you should were stones not crosses.
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 so ask. its not a trick. its actually christianity 101.
anonazero 2 months ago
@anonazero is what made this possible not his death nor his suffering. In the end we should all look to Christ not the cross.
BOON70 2 months ago
@anonazero that made it all matter one singular even gave purpose to all things that was the resurrection and the overcoming of sin not the pain he took on the cross or his death.
BOON70 2 months ago
@BOON70 but thats why you guys dont understand how your sins can be paid for all at once. you don't understand that because you have no idea why we look to the cross as salvation instead of death. you see a tool for execution and i see my sin executed so that i can be perfectly righteous in the sight of God, so that i can LOVE God, so that He can ADOPT me as a son, and so that i can bask in His majesty for eternity.
anonazero 2 months ago
At least it's not the ENTIRE story behind our omitting of the cross from our worship. After all we still use the New Testament phrasing about bearing our own crosses. Etc.
We simply do not believe that it was Christ's suffering on the cross that redeemed mankind, but primarily his suffering in Gethsemane. If the cross wasn't at all important to us why would we talk so much about Christ keeping the prints of the nails in his hands?
mpalm887 4 months ago
I haven't watched any of this guy's other videos but he seems like a respectable man with a good spirit. As a Mormon who loves the bible I can appreciate the focus that modern and ancient Christendom places on the cross. The argument that we don't use the cross because it's like wearing a weapon around our necks is in my opinion not a very good one, and I don't think any of our church leaders would use that to explain our stance on it.
mpalm887 4 months ago
Its quite a simple answer why we dont use a cross in our worship. Why venerate a tool of murder? Does Jackie Kennedy go around with a necklace of the gun that murdered her husband? No who why would we go around with a cross, the tool that killed Jesus around our neck?
LedHead23 5 months ago in playlist QQFJW (Quick Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses)
Without using ANY link.....
Are we to Honor ANY IMAGE AT ALL?
What does God's word say???
letusreason42262 9 months ago
@letusreason42262 Everyone knows we are to never put any image before God. 1 Cor 1:18 Paul states the cross does not save but the power of God does. By what power did Christ overcome sins? By the cross or by the power of God? By what power did Christ overcome death? By the cross or by the power of God? I would state the answer is obvious but I guess to some it is not. The cross has no power and never did only God did. So what is should we worship? Christ asked the same question. Matt 23:16-19
BOON70 5 months ago
@BOON70 But in a different sense of course. Which is more important the Gold or the temple that sanctifies it? This is actually a trick question to the Pharisees but also let them see what was more important. Otherwise we shouldn't worship the temple either because who is that sanctifies the temple? Some may say will the man who came and blessed it by who's power is it sanctified? That is whom we should worship.
BOON70 5 months ago
Wearing a cross means im more focused on his death, and not his life. Jesus came to teach us how to live. and he died for us, but thats like me saying my friend was executed would i wear a electric chair?
jonnygotz2343 9 months ago
I'm a Mormon and I have no objection to the cross. Fish and the cross were all symbols of early Christianity. The LDS reason not to use the cross is based on the desire to shift the emphasis from a cross to the resurrection. The Catholic church and many Protestants use the cross, and I'm okay with that. But it's also okay for Mormons not to use the cross. They just shouldn't be critical of others using it or any other appropriate symbol.
MuzzleBlast357 9 months ago
Mormons can wear crosses, there isn't any rule saying a Mormon can't wear a cross. The Church itself chooses not to adopt this symbol as a trademark per-se but that doesn't mean we can't wear one or have a cross depicted or a graven image of one around our necks. It's true that it's not the cultural norm in the Church but worshiping God shouldn't be about images and culture. But if that helps you remember his atonement, then 'more power to ya'.
adamhburner 10 months ago
So will you literally were a suit of armor?
will you still wear a cross after all the bible texts that say not to make or worship them?
Isn't funny how the mentioning of the cross is even being mentioned before Jesus even died and was "put up in a cross." Did he know he was going to die like that and told people to wear cross before hand?
If you were to die by gun, would you want people to remember you with a gun?
silkyhands914 1 year ago
Now going back to your texts. You think they mean a literal cross that were suppose to pick up. Well first of all Jesus Real cross was not that small. so obviously you guys know that in a sense Jesus was not being literal about carrying a cross. Jesus was saying that his worshipers will face problems, attacks and whatnot, and the bible uses metaphors to say that. Eph 6:11-16 talks about putting on armor, a shield and holding sword but these metaphors the shield is the word the bible.
silkyhands914 1 year ago
The real way your suppose to worship god is in john 4:23,24 which states that the true worshipers will follow the father (not Jesus) in spirit and truth because thats the type of worshipers god is looking for. no where does its state a idol or any type of mediator which is your cross. Now it also states god is a spirit and they must worship him only in spirit and truth. Which means NO idols can represent him because god is not of flesh or of a earthly element.
silkyhands914 1 year ago
I read your bible text even though mine doesn't say cross. But no where does say or mean to literally pick up a cross its metaphorical (ill explain more later). no where does it say make a cross and it will represent me. Instead the bible teaches making these idols are PAGAN. Exodus 20:4, 5 says not make or worship them in any way. Lev 26:1 says the same. 2 Cor 6:16, Isa 42: 8. Jer 10:14,15 says you feel shame and its a mockery to god to even give attention to idols.
silkyhands914 1 year ago
I dont have problem with the crux provided you dont believe it has special powers like the mormons believe about their underwear, jw's believe he died on a stick but any ancient history about about the roman empire will show fact after fact they used the cross (T).
tio11566 1 year ago
yeah NAZI'S killed people with guns, well what if we all start weaing guns as our necklace!!!!
1Minute60Seconds 1 year ago
@1Minute60Seconds- If the Bible said about guns what it says about the cross, then I'd say that is a good idea. Have you bothered to look up the verses yet?
EvidenceMinistries 1 year ago
@EvidenceMinistries When you are wearing a cross you are actually honoring the cross, not jesus. You are honoring te murder device that killed jesus!
1Minute60Seconds 11 months ago
proverb 4:18 will answer that question
benjaminsecrets 1 year ago
@benjaminsecrets Exactly how does this verse answer my question? It doesn't say anything about a cross.
EvidenceMinistries 1 year ago
Lmfao @ king James bible. Pretty much standard amongst bible scholars and linguists to be the worst translation and butchery of the bible for a very long time. Gg shakespearian English bible
dajhrm 1 year ago
I think the cross is meant to shove it up your butt hole. =/
nctrls2 1 year ago
Catholism makes absoluteley no sense whatsoever. I have never stept foot in a catholic church but from what ive heard, the things they practice is nonsense. Religion has to do with studying the bible and doing what it says, now, there are different versions of the bible but there is one bible that is the correct one and I believe that it is Jehovahs Witness'. If you just once attended a Jehovahs Witness meeting you would instantly be interested especially if you know the bible.
A7X0313 1 year ago
The word cross is not used in the Greek writtings, the Greek word to for Jesus' tool of execution is Stauros = upright stake or pale. Other word in Greek used is Xylon =upright stake without a crossbeam, the 2 words are comparable to how we use the words car or automobile in designating a mode of transportation.
Only flawed translations use the word cross and only idolatrous Christians use it in worship
Scripturesinspired 1 year ago
The cross used to feature on the front of the Watchtower magazines. I think the organisation continued using the cross symbol, even after the inspection, where Jesus declared the organisation to be clean.
ExLuedenscheider 1 year ago
@ExLuedenscheider this is true..however, as time went on..and our worship was/is refined, we cleanse ourselves of every defilement. It wasn't until the late 20s or early 30s that we came to the realization that the word cross is not in the bible..and the the prophecies concerning christ's death entailed a stake. Then, as we began to undersatnd that the cross is an ancient symbol of pagan/demon worship, we understood the goal of satan to pollute the worship of the true God in every way.
brofun 1 year ago
@ExLuedenscheider there has
1Minute60Seconds 1 year ago
@1Minute60Seconds What do you mean, when you say "there has?" There has what? Are you confusing me with Brofun?
ExLuedenscheider 1 year ago
@ExLuedenscheider sorry it was a glitch. didnt notice :/. my bad.
1Minute60Seconds 1 year ago
Not only was the cross used as a pagan symbol by many religions around the world, but it is in direct violation of the "no idol worship" teachings of the bible (Exodus 20:4,5). The inclusion of the cross into Christianity was a move by 3rd century "christian" religious leaders in order to appeal to the pagans who at the time used the cross in worship of the Tyrian god Tammuz and the Chaldean god Bel. Would you want someone to wear a gun necklace if your son was killed by one? Same with god.
RealBibleAnswers 1 year ago
@RealBibleAnswers Don't you think it's a bit strange, that it took the Faithful and Discreet Slave nearly 2000 years to discover something as basic as that?
ExLuedenscheider 1 year ago
So you went ahead and listed a bunch of places where the cross is mentioned in the bible, errr... cool.... now you should probably list all the places where it's stated as something you should do....
Im not saying its wrong I think its wrong.. but Im just saying whats the purpose? you werent instructed to, it seems more like a fashion statement more then anything else.... or do you really need a necklace with a cross to remind yourself you're a christian ?....
mellowman07 1 year ago
the egyptians used the cross and its a pagan symbol.quick question for you please tell me where in the bible god commands us to use the cross as worship,he does say not to commit idolatry and create a graven image and bow down to it.
nosaj2001 1 year ago
Hmm to me it looks like you guys posted spam. Like little kids trying to get attention.
BOON70 1 year ago
When we look at the Bible we see that the number 7 is God's divine number. It signifies perfection and completeness in God's eyes.
Currently there are over 7 million people soon to be in number 7,777,777 (7x7) who are a witness (7 letters) about God's name Jehovah (7 letters) who obey Jesus and "Preach the Good News of the Kingdom" (7 words) and the word Kingdom is 7 letters!!
W-O-R-S-H-I-P 7 letters J-E-H-O-V-A-H 7 letters
Whois-GodDotcom
CanWeKnowDotcom
False-ReligionDotcom
ReligionOrTruth 1 year ago
Does it please Jehovah to wear a pole/torture stake
theruteger 1 year ago
But I should also say I have nothing against those who want to wear crosses or put crosses on their churches. I do not wish to cause envy, hate, or malice between people or myself. Causing such things are not of God. Is it not so that we teach the Gospel of Love? How can we teach it with hate on our lips?
BOON70 1 year ago
We don't wear crosses because its about Christ death. The great thing about the Atonement of Christ is not his death but his resurrection. So wearing a cross is like looking to Christ death not his overcoming death which is what the Atonement is about.
BOON70 2 years ago
@Boon70, if the figure of Jesus is still on it than I can see your point, however, Jesus said pick up your cross daily. Some people wear it as a constant reminder of His love for us by dying in our place.
TheHeavensDove 1 year ago
Maybe what he meant was that for us to pick up our cross he didn't say his cross ever. Maybe we should do as Christ did and put the man of sin to death ever day that is in us till we become pure as he is.
BOON70 1 year ago
Yes,that's what I stated above. We are to carry our cross daily. One dies to himself, his will, everyday.
And I agree, the transformation that you speak of (being made pure) can only come from the Holy Spirit. Only the Holy Spirit teaches the things of the Father in Jesus Christ, see 1John 2:25-27.
True Christ followers or Christians are taught and led by the Holy Spirit. We have a relationship with the Father in Jesus Christ not merely a knowledge of His being.
TheHeavensDove 1 year ago
i cant believe that peolpe argue about how Christ died! the fact is that he died for us! who cares if it was a cross or a stake... Although it was a cross it does not matter!
trekagerrecc 2 years ago
im not even a JW, but just because it sais the word cross in the bible does not mean we have to wear one! what a Lame argument!
trekagerrecc 2 years ago
One of the 10 commandments is "do not make yourself a carved image if ANY sort" the bible is filled with warnings about graven images used for worship.
IF you really research it Jesus was not even hung on a cross but merely a straight pole.
Find an encyclopedia.
If your son or daughter was killed by a knife or a gun would you make a replica of that knife or gun and wear it? Not too morbid is it.
STRYQ 2 years ago
@STRYQ, not so fast.......Romans put Jesus to death by crucifiction using a cross. I can't remember which one of the Apostles was hung upside down on a cross, either Paul or Peter but he too was put to death by Romans. I don't wear one, I die daily to myself which is what Jesus said to do.
TheHeavensDove 1 year ago
@TheHeavensDove
Like I said in my comment that you skimmed over, if you RESEARCH the origins of the Cross you will find it has nothing to do with Jesus or the bible.
Either you can check it out or continue to believe the lie, whichever you prefer.
MrCluster101 1 year ago
I do believe that Jesus hung from a cross. In my reseach I found that crosses were used by Romans and Romans put Christ to death. It has nothing to do with Jesus except that it symbolizes His sacrifice for mankind.
TheHeavensDove 1 year ago
Comment removed
MrCluster101 1 year ago
Why don't you look up your roman history. It was a stake, not a cross (t)
DSLS06 2 years ago
one word.. idol.. and ill let you find that out yourself
flare5544 2 years ago
If you do not worship the cross how can it then be a idol. The cross is not a idol it is a symbol. The early christins hade a fish as there symbol.
It is possibel that the catholics may worship the cross, we know how they r.
MrNaturalMan 2 years ago
The attitude should be reverence and love. The reason any EDUCATED (I cant stress that enough) Mormon would ask that is b/c LDS are taught from birth that the cross was indeed needed. And being a convert to the church I understand. But the reason LDS do NOT wear crosses is b/c anyone can die upon a cross. It was Christs life that made Him a worthy sacrifice upon the cross. We, therefore, celebrate His life, not His device of torture until His death.
chris827 2 years ago
Look in any encyclopedia and you will find cross is improperly translated from the greek word stauros.
Or google [ greek word stauros ]. You will see
"stauros" which means, "an upright stake
If you are too lazy to actually investigate this then remain ignorant.
STRYQ 2 years ago
It should be noted that the Jehovah's Witnesses taught that Jesus died on a cross before 1931.
BlaineKatsura 2 years ago
Yes the JW are the ONLY religion that correct errors in understanding and makes adjustments. Unlike false religion who do everything OPPOSITE what the bible actually says. That's right, I said everything.
STRYQ 2 years ago
Actually, JWs do what the men up at the Watchtower headquarters say under threat of excommunication. Please read what Jesus says in John 5:39-40, 6:37, and 14:6.
BlaineKatsura 2 years ago
True Christianity is a relationship with Jesus. Not a religion.
BlaineKatsura 2 years ago 2
@BlaineKatsura how do you know this?
eskimodrummer123 2 years ago
If you want to wear a cross around your neck, I don't have a problem with that.
Just as you should not have a problem with anyone who doesn't, or doesn't understand why you would wear a representation of an instrument of torture so heinous that it boggles the mind.
Yes, the cross is important as it is where Christ died for our sins, but ask yourself:
What would the cross mean if there was no resurrection of Christ? Or if you knew nothing about His resurrection from the dead?
lindalds 2 years ago
Christ died on a cross, Constantine the Roman Emperor claimed to have had a vision at Milvian Bridge that told him to conquer under this sign. They put crosses on their shields. Okay Constantine was a roman and knew the manner in which men were crucified. JWs are grasping at straw. They love majoring in minor issues to distract there followers from more important matters. Up until the late 30's the WT pictured Christ as dying on the traditional cross. They use the watch tower as a symbol.
brk49er 2 years ago
same as on the comment i wrote on your birthday video. Jehovah wants us to worship Himself and not any kind of cross or symbol/object/person(like a priest)
twistereli 2 years ago
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Phi 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
just like JWs enemies of the cross of christ
brk49er 2 years ago
In books like insight you can clearly read that a cross in the Hebrew or Greek way now would mean a simple Pole, or a "pole of justice" with EVENTUALLY another crossbeam on it. Also the cross stands for the holy trinity, speaks for itself i guess. And the old testament prohibits us to copy the "cross" where Jezus died on in any way.
Also the egyptians had a variations on the cross standing for the penis of men, it was placed at their graves. (no JW-talk only, real facts...)
twistereli 2 years ago
Look the Romans crucified people on crosses, and G4716
σταυρός
stauros
stow-ros'
From the base of G2476; a stake or post (as set upright), that is, (specifically) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively exposure to death, that is, self denial; by implication the atonement of Christ: - cross.
It can be a stake or a cross or more complex struction. The common execution method was for men to carry the cross member to the place of execution.
brk49er 2 years ago
There is also some graffiti from the first century that shows somoene making fun of a Christian and has a donkey headed man drawn on a cross with the caption
Alexamenos worships his god.
brk49er 2 years ago
JW dont bellieve in the cross. The romans were prone to cruxify people. The cross has been used in other religions that are not christian like scientology...
cherkas009 2 years ago
Cross or stake, it doesn't matter. A life was taken. Religions try to use anything and everything to prove that they are the right religion. Guess what? Jesus does not use religion for his purposes, men do!
TheRealTruth1914 2 years ago
I dont want to impose but: Historically speaking history proves that the torture stake was in fact were criminals were crucified, it wasnt until later after catholicism started that the cross was even symbolised.. Before that the cross shape itself was a part of a pegan symbol. As someone who studies religion I must say the NWT is only a Revised version not incomplete in any way only updated to bring hebrew text to our modern day understanding 2000 plus years in the lingo gap. Think bout it..
1shai1 2 years ago
Quick question for evidenceministries, Is that thing on your melon alive, and what do you feed it to keep it so fat? Hello, 1982 is calling.
mulletthater 2 years ago
I am neither Mormon nor JW but I am a born-again Christian and I am missing the point of your video. Do Mormons and JW have an issue with that?
carnrick 2 years ago
can't answer for the mormons but the reasoning behind JW's not having anything to do with the cross I can help with. first they don't believe he was actualy put on a cross but rather on a stake. secondly I can't remember the exact verse but it says not to make images of anything in heaven or on earth, somthing to that effect anyway. So they consider a cross in the same context as the golden calf in moses's time. hope that helps.
no4go2 2 years ago
we do not believe that jesus died on a cross. he died on a torture stake. here is the first scripture you posted Matthew 10: 38 in the new world translation bible. this bible is the holy scriptures but in english spoken in our day:
"And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me."
misshappygills 2 years ago
Wrong, just an opinion based translation without any historical backup nor biblical backup. No where in the bible does it back up the claim that He died on a stake.
Only the NWT says it unfortunately. Not the manuscripts not the copies of the manuscripts.
Cycofoo1914 2 years ago
I lovingly call it the "Green Dragon" and you have actually removed verses from the Bible. Convenient to prove your points i'm sure.
mulletthater 2 years ago
heres a little example why not to have or wear a cross...1. it comes from pagan origins. 2. where ever it says cross replace with pole or tree. 3. my mother was murdered with a knife...so your idea is,.that you honer the greatest man who ever was, you wear the instrument of murder around your neck or in your home! are you suggesting that everyone in my family wear small knifes around our necks, in order to pay respect towards our mother? who's very live was put to an end by a knife! i think not!
dabigez357 2 years ago
That is exactly what it is, Pagan origin and its really useless these cross's that you guys wear, is that how you honor your Lord Jesus? By wearing a cross? That overshadows his purpose.
Cycofoo1914 2 years ago
Yes we honor him by remembering what he did for us
1987COW 2 years ago
So, Mr. EvidenceMinistries, or mr. Self Proclaimed preacher of God without authorization,
No where in the bible states that the First century Church of Christ members carried a form of the cross or anything resembling the death. If you do, you're only carrying on the ridiculous adaptation of the Catholic church's man-made doctrine.
Why would you even want to challenge Jehova's witnesses or Mormons when they think they're gonna be rulers of the celestial kingdom? LOL.
Cycofoo1914 2 years ago
Paul teaches that the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness.
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
but that to us who are saved it is the power of God unto salvation.
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
So if Christ died in a Mercedez Benz, would you carry a Mercedez car toy around? Its ridiculous, it was a introduced doctrine by the Catholic church that hundreds of thousands of churches adopted. Only for the sake of a remembrance. You would wonder why the Protestant church never puts up a graven image of Christ on the cross yet puts Christ's cross on the altar. What a deception!
Cycofoo1914 2 years ago
Jesus says that unless you deny yourself, take up your cross, & follow Him you are not worthy to follow Him.
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
No, Jesus did not say 'cross'. He said
'σταυρὸν', or at least that is what Matthew wrote.
The question is: What does the stauros that Jesus died on look like?
The answer is: No one knows. No diagram was printing and no blueprints recorded.
But what we do not know is what it meant. It meant suffering for his sake. That does not involve wearing a weapon on your shirt.
sklemetti 2 years ago
Read your KJV Bible. The word is cross. He died on a Roman cross. We know what crosses looked like from records of history. Jesus is empashasizing the need to die to self-will, as He did. The cross reminds us of both in our relationship with Him.
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
That is how the KJV renders the word is Stauros in English.
But that does not answer the question of the shape of the instrument that Jesus died on. The translators of the KJV were not at the event.
JWs follow the Christ quite well without an image or idol of a weapon.
sklemetti 2 years ago
HAHAHAAHAHA! you need a torture device to remind you of your relationship with Jehovah, and to remind you of how his son died????!!!!!man.....you got a long way to go....STTTTTTEEEEEEEEEERIIIIIIIIIIKKKKKKKKKE 11!!!!!!!!!!!!
fatchamp215 2 years ago
Its funny that you would ever call God "Jehova". Why not "Yaweh" like the other Christian professing churches?
Examine the tentagram for a moment. Greek - YHWH. why YHWH? did they even pronounce that? Thats because, you cant.
Jehova? JHWH? really...absurd.
Cycofoo1914 2 years ago
1. Jehovah is gods name in english 2. Yaweh is gods name in hebrew ... it has been this way for hundreds of years whether you like it or not! it just is.
dabigez357 2 years ago
I am what I am
I will be what I will be
JHWH and YHWH is not the only name that God came about and said.
Here are a few:
Elohim (Gen. 1:1), El Elyon (Gen. 14:18), El Shaddai (Gen. 17:1),
and the three-word name of God EHYEH-ASHER-EHYEH in Exodus 3:14 is translated as "I AM WHO I AM" in most English versions of the Old Testament.
The 1962 Jewish Publication Society translation of the Torah despaired of coming up with an accurate rendition, and just left the words in their Hebrew original
Cycofoo1914 2 years ago
Paul wrote that God forbid he should glory save in the cross of Christ & that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who perish, but the power of God to salvation to those who believe. Do *you* believe in the power of the cross?
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
Paul wrote that. Good for him.
I don't believe in the power of the cross. But I believe in what Jesus did and the value of his sacrifice.
sklemetti 2 years ago
sklemetti: You don't believe what Paul wrote? Do you believe that what he wrote is good for him only?
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
That is such a literal conclusion. If so, we should then be taking up our giant heavy wooden cross.
He meant that we should be obedient all the way through death so that we may achieve salvation. Its absurd to think that we should carry a cross all around, the whole reason why you guys carry a cross around is either for the unfaithful who just do it because, they believe they should and for those who carry it around because, they need a reminder.
If Christ died in a Mercedez....Lul.
Cycofoo1914 2 years ago
Our attitude is like Hezekiah's in 1 kings 18:4.
Remember that Jesus' death was like the copper serpent. People looked to the serpent to be saved. But they did wrong after that.
"He it was that removed the high places and broke the sacred pillars to pieces and cut down the sacred pole and crushed to pieces the copper serpent that Moses had made; for down to those days the sons of Israel had continually been making sacrificial smoke to it, and it used to be called the copper serpent-idol."
sklemetti 2 years ago
What is that image of the fallen angel with the trumpet to his mouth Mormons call Moroni? Moroni - really? Moroni masqueraded as an angel of light, bringing a false gospel & beginning a young, upstart religion whose numbers of converts & missionaries have been steadily & steeply declining since 2001. Check this out in the LDS publication Ensign. Paul teaches that the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness.
Shulamitefire 2 years ago
What should the attitude of Christians be?
If Jesus were killed with a gun, would you wear a gun?
It is not a matter of cross vs stake.
Think about it. Use your head. You are just being a follower of man by following the fad.
sklemetti 2 years ago
don't forget where "crucified" etc are mentioned too.
also, Isaiah 42, 49, 50, and 53, and Psalm 22:16-18
carlasue88 2 years ago
The attitude of Christians towards the cross depends upon their view of Christ. Since the LDS Church claims to recieve guidance from the living and resurrected Christ, we do not pay great homage to the cross which we view as the symbol of the dying Christ which is generally regarded with great importance by those Christian denominations that do not believe that Christ presently guides His church through prophets as He did in the Bible.
serafine666 2 years ago
who cares!!!! Its none of your business what I worship or dont. Get a job!!! Wearing a cross does not make a person better or worse. You will be much happier and content if you except people for who and what they are. They arent hurting you in any way.
brianbull104 2 years ago
I'd say wear the cross not to worship (because that's unnecessary), but to show people that you're a Christian, that you believe in God (whatever the name) and that you're proud of your belief.
BobDDevil 2 years ago
You obviously need attention. I would ask that if you need to waste your time looking for faults in people,, please direct it toward terrorists or others that are out to hurt people, not good christians.
brianbull104 2 years ago
The religion of the JWs and Mormons is not Christianity. Reaching them is not a waste of time.
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
The religion of Mormons emphatically IS Christianity. It is possible that the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses is also Christianity but I cannot make a positive judgement on a belief system that I am not familiar with. A very good lesson to keep in mind, I might add.
serafine666 2 years ago
@EvidenceMinistries
MrDojo5 1 year ago
@MrDojo5 images and idols are detestable to jehovah as stated in deut. as a parent, if my child dies by means of a torture device, there is no way i would want my child remembered by everyone, wearing an image of the torture device that killed them, this thinking is from one source, satan who is taunting jehovah, peace to you brother, 1 John 5; 19-21
MrDojo5 1 year ago
In the beggining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1
"but of the Son [God] says: 'Your throne, O God, is forever" Hebrews 1
Jesus said: "Before Abraham was, I AM"
Johm, somewhere
"For in Him [Jesus] the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily" colosians
"I and the Father are One" - Jesus in John.
"and God said, let US create man" Genesis. "us" = more than one person who is God, but only one God."
God bless you all
daranac2 2 years ago
JOHN 17;3 JESUS SAID ; THIS MEANS EVERLASTING FILE !! theiR taking in knowledge of you[yhwh/jah/jehovah] the ONLY TRUE GOD and of whom you have sent forth ...jesus christ
francis14mark 2 years ago
Everlasting file? I've never heard of that. Maybe your spell checker has though ;-)
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
JESUS CALLS JEHOVAH IN JOHN 20;17
HIS FATHER AND HIS OWN GOD ...
JESUS ISN'T PART OF A TRINITY OF 3gods[HAHAHA] THAT IS SATANS TEACHING ...
francis14mark 2 years ago
THE god OF FERTILITY OF BABYLONIAS
THEIR .. SYMBOL OF WORSHIP WAS A CROSS, LOMGER OR NOT
IT WAS NEVER A TRUE CHRISTIANITY SYMBOL AND IT WILL NEVEER BE
francis14mark 2 years ago
it says in 1cor 10:14 ''free from idolatry'' and on psalms 115:4-8 says that we shall not worship or have idols. heres a question 4 u.....if u have so many questions then y dont u just ask a JW in person, we always go door 2 door. or u can contact us. We give free bible studies if u would like one. I recommend u speak with one of us and accept a bible study, youll see how many of ur questions will b answered.
ylrebmik125 2 years ago
I've had numerous Bible studies with JWs. They don't have answers either. The best they can do is quote a WT reference. Sorry, but I do not view that as authoritative.
Btw, what makes you think I worship the cross by wearing one?
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
Your questions do not surprise me for they are commonly asked therefore we JW are prepared (or at least we SHOULD) just like you, i've been making my own research, and in 1cor.10:14, God encourages US to stay away from idolatry. How is it used in most religions? Most WORSHIP the cross, something god said to NOT do. NOW a question for YOU, If you have SO many questions for Jehovah's Witnesses,then why dont u accept a bible study with them? I challenge you to do that.
Maggydlj 2 years ago
I have had many Bible studies with JWs and welcome them any time they are offered. Christians do NOT worship the cross. It is just like a wedding ring. I don't worship it either.
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
why dont you people go read the 1st commandment, it specifically says dont worship graven images
METALGEARVENOM 2 years ago
Uh... that isn't the first of the 10 commandments. Read your Bible. I know of no Christian who worships the cross. Married people wear wedding rings for the same purpose as wearing a cross. Does that mean they worship their spouse?
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
I wonder if Paul gave all the apostles crosses to wear around their necks for Christmas
stonewallgregg 2 years ago
LOL! Funny thought!
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
It mentions no where in the bible that you should use computers.....so why are you using a computer??
ignorance2010 2 years ago
You're just being silly.
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
Who cares wether you wear a cross or a voodoo doll. We each have a right to wear or believe what we wish. If I choose to not to wear a cross, it doesnt make me anyless of a christian does it? Why do you waste so much of your time attacking mormans? Could you be weeding your garden or something?
brianbull104 2 years ago
Attacking Mormons? How is asking question an attack? If someone thinks that challenging their religion is an attack, their faith must be fragile.
BTW, Mormonism calls all other Churches the church of the devil. Is that an attack?
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
look if jesus christ wasnt killed on a stake but instead was shot, would you have a gun as your necklace? the bible says not to make images or idols for worship. that thing around your neck looks like one, and so do the statues in churches of jesus, mary, saints etc etc. the point is the bible forbids these as a form of worship. its there in black and white in the ten commandments.
aquntumsingularity 2 years ago
I am neither a JW or Mormon but I have to stand up for truth we should have no graven images. aquntumsingularity has the correct view. The focus of one's life should not be the cross but rather our focus should directly be on jesus himself who died for our sins. We are to live our lives for jesus not wear/worship Roman death instruments.
If you actually look at the verses you prescribed you will notice that the focus is what happened on the cross rather then the physical object itself.
eiffuy 2 years ago 2
The cross serves as a reminder of what Jesus did for us. We don't worship it.
BlaineKatsura 2 years ago
If Jesus was killed with a gun and the New Testament said about guns what it says about the cross, then YES, I would wear a gun around my neck. Having a cross necklace is worship just like wearing my wedding ring means I worship my wife. Did you even bother to look up the verses in the more info button?
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
i just said that its in the ten commandments that you shouldnt make for yourselve a graven image for use as worship. you said 'a cross necklace is worship' sorry to be blunt, but this is very basic knowlege that God commanded us not to do and it infuriates me that you twist the words of the bible to justify wearing a small necklace that it would appear you are so dependant on for use as worship. surly if you do not want to risk displeasing god you simply wouldnt take the risk.
your choice.
aquntumsingularity 2 years ago
You clearly misunderstood what he was saying. Read it again, he was making a point.
Zadok83 2 years ago
How about you read the rest of what I wrote? I said that wearing a cross necklace is worship JUST LIKE wearing a wedding ring... I could have put it another way. Wearing a cross is worship IF wearing a wedding ring is worship... Reading the context changes every thing doesn't it? ;-)
Your example of taking my comment out of context is EXACTLY what the WT does with the Bible. Read the whole thing and try to understand what it is saying instead of trying to make it say what you want.
EvidenceMinistries 2 years ago
yes but having a wedding ring isnt worship. its a symbol. you dont worship your wife, you are simply in subjection to her like she is to you.
frankly im not taking things out of context. im mearly telling you what the bible says. now how about you tell me what the bible says for once, instead of questioning it, and tell me where Jesus said that it would be alright to make the cross(a roman torture instrument) a symbol for worship?
i beg to differ on the whole WT argument you claim.
aquntumsingularity 2 years ago
why in the first place should you worship the cross? In fact, Jesus died on a stake, not on a cross.
melitonchiong 2 years ago