Topics: DEADLY ARGUMENTS NOW ADDED For The Creationism-Evolutionism Debate (See Subchapter 10.2.2.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balanceddiet1.yolasite.com
See Figure 4, which is THE MEANING OF THE PYRAMID, at figure4etc.yolasite.com
See Announcements at announcements-balancedway.weebly.com
Comparing evolution by natural selection to ideas (memetics by any other name) has been so thoroughly rejected by the scientific community, in general, that this whole line of argument should simply be ignored.
Instead of just claiming he doesn't have anything relevant to say, why not respond to the argument he's making with a counter-argument. Otherwise, there's not much point in you commenting.
When I posted that comment I felt that Dennett was babbling and not getting to the point, although I wouldn't feel so much like that now. You were right to correct me on that
Pausing at 3:15 to insert an observation. One would expect there to be many points of conceptual agreement, such as 'submission to God', between a genuine revelation of God, and its inevitable counterfeits. The points of agreement are not nearly so important, and tell us far less about which one (if any) is actually true, as are the points of distinction.
uh,no. Parasites that cause ants to act are an example of the point made that men act for reasons other than their own fitness. Religion is a parasite because, by definition, parasites take over and cause you to do things that aren't good for you, but for them.
Yes, birds fly. airplanes fly. But only religious men fly, like birds, airplanes into buildings because they will receive 72 virgins thereafter. Death isn't good for them or the people they killed, but their religion made it worth it.
Religion is an idea. Nothing is 'good' for ideas as such - thus - they are nothing like parasites. Yes, ideas cause men to act, and yes, some ideas are better than others; but parasites they are not. However, my point wasn't that Dennett is right or wrong, it was just an example of how analogy can only take you so far.
You missed the point of the analogy. The thing that is "good" for an idea is anything which helps it survive- like a parasite. In this sense, it may be a useful analogy.
@matthewjhaywood So then its like a parasite or anything else that has something which helps it survive. Why then are we calling it a parasite? Why not say its like a symbiot or just a replicating organism? This is whats wrong with the analogy; everything that propagates its self has something that helps it to survive. Calling it a parasite is simply arbitrary.
Dennett is overconfident when he says that religion evolves out of superstition. Christianity evolved out of the person of Jesus Christ. And to compare ants that go insane or suicidal because of little visitors latching on to them with Christianity is cute but it is intellectually lame. Interestingly, it was the atheist Sigmund Freud who asked for assistance with his suicide...
Christianity evolved out of the concept of Jesus Christ that is certain - whether Jesus was a real person is certainly debated. However what would you say jesus represents? Surely he represents a belief in salvation (and condemnation) from a deity who is responsible for all we see and know to be true and the concepts we feel are certainly true but can offer no real proof otherwise.
This is superstition by any definition if you limit Christianity to the facts.
The writers of the NT were emphatic about the importance of being an eyewitness to the risen Lord. They themselves, even after being witnesses to remarkable miracles, were dejected and lost when he was crucified. Not until they saw him risen were they willing to die brutal deaths peacefully defending the faith. Without the resurrection there would be no Christianity. (William Lane Craig's knowledge of the resurrection / empty tomb is potent...worth viewing.)
I am familiar with WLCs arguments however he selectively ignores the evidenciary history of the NT and the fact the authors weren't eye witnesses. You may not believe me, I would rather you didn't take the word of someone on YouTube for it, but I would recommend you look in to how the Bible came to be. There are numerous documentaries and books available. I'd suggest you start with Dr Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus".
Without the concept of the resurrection there would be no christianity.
anwyII I appreciate the objective spirit and recommendation. I did read reviews of his admirers and critics and don't feel he made the case you support. For a brief but meaningful look at his weaknesses please read Ben Whitherington's article: Misanalyzing Text Criticism--Bart Ehrman's 'Misquoting Jesus'. While I don't share WLC' views on evolution I think he's 98% in the zone with deference to Easter Morning.
No, Christianity evolved out of the greed for power.
Yes, Sigmund Freud decided himself to end his life because he wasn't afraid of hell or your God's wrath. A rational human being, not a sheep like religious people.
Incorrect. E.g. the apostle Paul, who was having Christians put to death, gave up his power to follow Christ upon his encounter with God. Christianity forbids greed & teaches stewardship of talents and resources. But, yes, there are those who have used Christianity to selfish ends and with much deception. Jesus and the apostles warned about these "wolves in sheeps' clothing." Check out the "The Sure Route to Madness" by Larry Crabb in Conversations Journal page 9. Its free.
Read "The History of God" by Karen Armstrong. The books tells actually how Christianity emerged. Especially interesting is the part about the birth of the christian doctrine in the 4th century. You can also read about it in Wikipedia. Look for "First Council of Nicaea" and ask yourself if Christianity as it exists now is really what Jesus was teaching. The story of Paul has not necessarily to be true (like many or all the stories told by the church)
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NEW BOOK FOR DEBATES AND GOVERNANCE
Topics: DEADLY ARGUMENTS NOW ADDED For The Creationism-Evolutionism Debate (See Subchapter 10.2.2.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balanceddiet1.yolasite.com
See Figure 4, which is THE MEANING OF THE PYRAMID, at figure4etc.yolasite.com
See Announcements at announcements-balancedway.weebly.com
etc.
TheServiceWeb 7 months ago
Comparing evolution by natural selection to ideas (memetics by any other name) has been so thoroughly rejected by the scientific community, in general, that this whole line of argument should simply be ignored.
MrWildbill20056 7 months ago
These athiests really don't make very good points Dennet is a philosopher you'd think he'd have something relevant to say
seanhall2006 1 year ago
@seanhall2006
Instead of just claiming he doesn't have anything relevant to say, why not respond to the argument he's making with a counter-argument. Otherwise, there's not much point in you commenting.
matthewjhaywood 1 year ago
@matthewjhaywood
When I posted that comment I felt that Dennett was babbling and not getting to the point, although I wouldn't feel so much like that now. You were right to correct me on that
seanhall2006 1 year ago
@seanhall2006
Babbling is just Dennetts style- he's not as concise as a Dawkins.
matthewjhaywood 1 year ago
@matthewjhaywood
A really great debate wasn't it?
seanhall2006 1 year ago
Pausing at 3:15 to insert an observation. One would expect there to be many points of conceptual agreement, such as 'submission to God', between a genuine revelation of God, and its inevitable counterfeits. The points of agreement are not nearly so important, and tell us far less about which one (if any) is actually true, as are the points of distinction.
gregormann7 1 year ago
Parasites cause ants to act. Religions cause men to act. Therefore religions are parasites.
Birds fly. Airplanes fly. Therefore airplanes are birds.
confusedmatthew 2 years ago
uh,no. Parasites that cause ants to act are an example of the point made that men act for reasons other than their own fitness. Religion is a parasite because, by definition, parasites take over and cause you to do things that aren't good for you, but for them.
Yes, birds fly. airplanes fly. But only religious men fly, like birds, airplanes into buildings because they will receive 72 virgins thereafter. Death isn't good for them or the people they killed, but their religion made it worth it.
insanecaine 2 years ago
Religion is an idea. Nothing is 'good' for ideas as such - thus - they are nothing like parasites. Yes, ideas cause men to act, and yes, some ideas are better than others; but parasites they are not. However, my point wasn't that Dennett is right or wrong, it was just an example of how analogy can only take you so far.
confusedmatthew 2 years ago
@confusedmatthew
You missed the point of the analogy. The thing that is "good" for an idea is anything which helps it survive- like a parasite. In this sense, it may be a useful analogy.
matthewjhaywood 1 year ago
@matthewjhaywood So then its like a parasite or anything else that has something which helps it survive. Why then are we calling it a parasite? Why not say its like a symbiot or just a replicating organism? This is whats wrong with the analogy; everything that propagates its self has something that helps it to survive. Calling it a parasite is simply arbitrary.
confusedmatthew 1 year ago
He was using the analogy to explain, not to prove.
sam51092 2 years ago
That ant parasite is FUCKED UP!!!
confusedmatthew 2 years ago
Dennett is overconfident when he says that religion evolves out of superstition. Christianity evolved out of the person of Jesus Christ. And to compare ants that go insane or suicidal because of little visitors latching on to them with Christianity is cute but it is intellectually lame. Interestingly, it was the atheist Sigmund Freud who asked for assistance with his suicide...
Chiangmai007 2 years ago
Christianity evolved out of the concept of Jesus Christ that is certain - whether Jesus was a real person is certainly debated. However what would you say jesus represents? Surely he represents a belief in salvation (and condemnation) from a deity who is responsible for all we see and know to be true and the concepts we feel are certainly true but can offer no real proof otherwise.
This is superstition by any definition if you limit Christianity to the facts.
anwyll 2 years ago
The writers of the NT were emphatic about the importance of being an eyewitness to the risen Lord. They themselves, even after being witnesses to remarkable miracles, were dejected and lost when he was crucified. Not until they saw him risen were they willing to die brutal deaths peacefully defending the faith. Without the resurrection there would be no Christianity. (William Lane Craig's knowledge of the resurrection / empty tomb is potent...worth viewing.)
Chiangmai007 2 years ago
I am familiar with WLCs arguments however he selectively ignores the evidenciary history of the NT and the fact the authors weren't eye witnesses. You may not believe me, I would rather you didn't take the word of someone on YouTube for it, but I would recommend you look in to how the Bible came to be. There are numerous documentaries and books available. I'd suggest you start with Dr Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus".
Without the concept of the resurrection there would be no christianity.
anwyll 2 years ago
anwyII I appreciate the objective spirit and recommendation. I did read reviews of his admirers and critics and don't feel he made the case you support. For a brief but meaningful look at his weaknesses please read Ben Whitherington's article: Misanalyzing Text Criticism--Bart Ehrman's 'Misquoting Jesus'. While I don't share WLC' views on evolution I think he's 98% in the zone with deference to Easter Morning.
Chiangmai007 2 years ago
No, Christianity evolved out of the greed for power.
Yes, Sigmund Freud decided himself to end his life because he wasn't afraid of hell or your God's wrath. A rational human being, not a sheep like religious people.
yegorletoff 2 years ago
Incorrect. E.g. the apostle Paul, who was having Christians put to death, gave up his power to follow Christ upon his encounter with God. Christianity forbids greed & teaches stewardship of talents and resources. But, yes, there are those who have used Christianity to selfish ends and with much deception. Jesus and the apostles warned about these "wolves in sheeps' clothing." Check out the "The Sure Route to Madness" by Larry Crabb in Conversations Journal page 9. Its free.
Chiangmai007 2 years ago 2
Read "The History of God" by Karen Armstrong. The books tells actually how Christianity emerged. Especially interesting is the part about the birth of the christian doctrine in the 4th century. You can also read about it in Wikipedia. Look for "First Council of Nicaea" and ask yourself if Christianity as it exists now is really what Jesus was teaching. The story of Paul has not necessarily to be true (like many or all the stories told by the church)
yegorletoff 2 years ago
This is one of the best talks by Dennett I've heard. Simply excellent.
simplic10 2 years ago
"Live Free or Die"
...
"Famous Potatoes"
BionicDance 2 years ago 5