Evolution is an observable fact, it does not rely on assumptions.
And even if it were false that does not prove the existence of any god. Creationism isn't even an equal theory since it makes neither predictions nor does it explain HOW organisms came to be. Your ignorance is staggering.
Let me see if I can explain what Occam's Razor Actually says (not what you say it says) to you in the simplest way possible:
If I have a chicken that has laid a quantity of eggs, it is better for me to determine how many eggs I have by actually counting the eggs than to make assumptions about how many eggs there are. It doesn't matter with what simplicity or complexity I count the eggs, just so long as I don't make any assumptions in the counting. That's about as simple as I can make it for you.
WRONG! Occams razor makes no comment on the complexity of a hypothesis. Rather, it states that it is more logical to, when faced with competing hypotheses that are equal in other respects, select the one that makes the fewest new assumptions. A theory or hypothesis that makes no assumptions is infinitely more logical than ANY theory that makes even one assumption, no matter how complex the former theory is and no matter how simple the latter theory.
You said that already..repeating "debunked" doesn't make it so.
You said in another post that atheists use occam's razor to argue their belief. I'm an atheist, and I am not familiar with occam's razor. I became atheist BEFORE I heard of it, even before I heard of evolution, darwin, etc.
The only reason I became atheist was because of the lack of evidence for the biblical god, the god I USED to believe existed. Nothing more.
point is you atheists most of you try to use the razor to prove god does not exist then when your theory is knocked down you Deni it ... god is real face it you could not possibly exist without a creator and the true scientists are proving this all the time you dismiss them simply because it goes agents your atheist religion ... cry and complain all you like you are wrong end of discussion
00:54 hahahahahaha, no sorry boy, you need to read up on occams racor again.
The "simple" one is not the better one (whatever that means). Occams razor states that among the plausible/possible theories the one that requires the lesser amount of assumtions is more probable. It has not been used as claim to existence or non existence, thats only by people who dont know what it means, like you.
@demorris766126 whatever that means?? You mean you didnt understand it, LOL. Its the basic of your OWN thinking. Amoung compeating possible theories the one that requires the least amount of asumptions is more probably (which means its more likely to be true)
The reason people are so fond of using the Razor to argue against religion is because we live in, and thus have proof of, the natural world. A god would exist in the supernatural world. In other words you'd have to invent or imagine a completely different system with different unobservable laws.
Also, evolution doesn't say anything about how this universe got here. Even if you hold the literal story of creation as true, evolution doesn't dispute it.
Lets assume there is a divine god, that always existed. Let's also assume he has a free will. When he created the earth, the universe and everything, why did he do that? What caused him to do decide that he wants to do that? What did he do before that? The reason I prefer atheism over theism is that it doesn't require faith. Faith only bears scam and lies.
I asked a muslim recently about this. He said the same. Must be true then. But he also said that all Christians and Jews and all non-Muslims will go to hell, too. I asked him for proof. He showed me his book. Its much cooler than the bible. And more holy and stuff.
Looks like you're fu**ed! You better convert to islam.
@demorris: evolution doesn't contradict the biblical account? Doesn't the bible say that god made all living things at once, much the same as they are now? In particular, does the bible not say that god made man directly, rather than evolving him from an ape-like ancestor?
@DreamGranules evolution contradicts the bible 100 % and calls god a lire ... according to evolution and the heathen life sprang up from a pool of shyt ... basically ...... god said he created the world in 6 days and rested on the seventh ... evolution says man come from apes .... sorry you are wrong ...
@Censeo: I suspect most Xians don't worry about debunking the Baghavad Gita much. Of course you're right that evolution and atheism aren't necessarily related. One can also be an atheist and not believe evolution. I guess the traits are just linked commonly enough that theists, particularly Xians, believe it's the same.
According to RationalWiki, a source I trust more than anything else, the razor is a simple minimalist principle where too many assumptions make finding a solution to a problem impossible. Creationists use it incorrectly by saying that since their hypothesis are simpler than natural processes it makes theirs true by default. But the simplest explanation won't work if it raises more questions than it answers and goddidit is just copping out.
simplicity is not quite the same as multiplying entities unnecessarily. The most likely explanation is currently unknown naturally occurring phenomena that can be explained scientifically.
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7 : 13 - 14)
@PostITnoteGUY magic has nothing to do with anything, it is not magic or fairytale god simply is ,and it is for you to accept or reject we are not forced to worship Christ . though it makes no sense not to ...
@retepvosnul i don't need to defend god to know he exists ... i am just trying to help others find the true path so they will find faith in god rather than to burn in the lake of fire.....
Sorry i missed that part, i'm a lazy atheist i guess ;)
I'm still waiting for prove god does exist.
But before that, i'm still waiting on good evidence that the bible is not a work of 'the devil' ...... i'm sure you can provide me that evidence demorris
@mindwis3 look around you there is your proof .....all you see ,your very existence is proof .... without intelligent design how do you exist ??? the "big bang " ? evolution , by chance ? now there is your make believe fairytale all you see is not possible without god... just look at a single human cell scientists can not come close to mapping one single cell ....research this for yourself ....
- yeah, "look at the trees".... no sorry demorris, that won't do. Nature is evidence for the natural and not for the superatural, you'll have to expain WHY i.e. trees are evidence.
saying "how do you exist ???" is called an "argument from ignorance", which is a logical fallacy.
Rather then claiming "i don't see how X could be the answer, therefore it's Y", you should bring positive evidence for Y being correct... more to come....(2)
@mindwis3 Technology and Research (A*STAR), Chia-Lin Wei, Ph.D., said, "In this study, we mapped a major component of the epigenome, DNA methylation, for the entire sequence of human DNA, and went further by comparing three types of cells that represented three stages of human development: human embryonic stem cells, human embryonic stem cells that were differentiated into skin-like cells, and cells derived from skin
@mindwis3 Wow! By switching those two words changed the dynamics of the point. Once again, you've given me a reason to enjoy thinking too much! *and the headache afterwards*
Not very impressive, really. It doesn't really matter what Occam did with the principle or whether he was daring enough to use it to debunk the supernatural. Had he done so, he may have been killed.
I'm not sure why evolution has anything to do with atheism. Even if God exist, natural events had to take place. I.e grown human being popping out of nowhere or dust chemically altering to flesh and bones in human male form are natural events weather or not a creator was behind these or not. If you believe in god and wish to know what method he used, you can either study science or... if you believe genesis is literal, have faith in that. But evolution is no theory of divine presence or abscence
@Censeo It's because evolution contradicts the biblical account. While there are theists who believe in evolution, anyone who's a literal reader of Genesis has to exclude evolution.
@DreamGranules evolution does not contradict the biblical account. ,evolution theory is simply wrong........ and some people are close minded and have been deceived.... most scientists are atheists you actually think they would publish the truth even if they knew the bible was true ? history is filled full of lies by those who have bad intentions , open your eyes find truth for your self ........
@demorris766126 If theory of evolution does not contradict biblical scripture, then what is your reason for distrusting this science? Do you know much about the theory? I was wondering cause you mentioned something about... chance?! Is it the mutations you mean? We know mutations occur, and they're many, so we can't predict them and know in advance which make genes gets selected in the particular environment a creature lives in, but random is only used as a pragmatic term for unpredictability.
@Censeo i have no distrust toward science or evolution it exists , but not by chance and not on its own the universe has intelligent design and any "big bang or evolution , the creation of the universe and people was set in motion by god ,the problem i have is with Satan deceiving mankind and with people blaspheming god...
"the creation of the universe and people was set in motion by god "
Set in motion? -> that does not sound very biblical to me. Bibilical it would be 'set' -> which scripture supports "set IN MOTION" ?
"Satan deceiving"
- ow please.......if you want to convince someone who does not believe in god, then please don't say thinkgs like "Orcs" or "Satan", give REAL reasons, that works much better.
@Censeo 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
@Censeo 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 2 John 1
@demorris766126 And why would people deny what they knew were true? Especially scientists? Theist scientists would definitely inform the public if they found evidence for what they already believe in. And atheist don't distrust god. They don't believe the claim of existence. So there would be no big deal hiding the discovery of any god once they found it.. cause they'd be believers by then.
@DreamGranules Well, Bahavadgita contradicts biblical accounts too and that doesn't make it have anything to do with atheism. I've not yet heard anyone give any actual reason for why evolution and atheism are related. Many atheists accept science in general more easily, but that is only because they don't have emotional investment in believing anything in particular through faith.
@Censeo Occam's Razor is sometimes used to defeat arguments for the existence of God and support the rationality of atheism" as well as evolution they believe we were created by evolution by chance not by a creator or intelligent design
this is the main point i am stressing , i do believe in the bible and god , and i cant understand how anyone can believe in all this our universe our lives existing by chance , and hopefully i can get some people to change their mind 31 minutes ago
"i cant understand how anyone can believe in all this our universe our lives existing by chance , and hopefully i can get some people to change their mind "
-Change their mind to not understand either because you don't?
Perhaps you should demonstrate that God exists, so you're at least giving a real alternative?
Occam's razor is a method to help determine the most plausible explanation. It's nothing more, and it's not always correct either....
Ockham's razor isn't theistic, it's pure logic.
Evolution is an observable fact, it does not rely on assumptions.
And even if it were false that does not prove the existence of any god. Creationism isn't even an equal theory since it makes neither predictions nor does it explain HOW organisms came to be. Your ignorance is staggering.
thomaseshuis 1 month ago
I don't see any debunk here. And Occam's razor is not needed to question faith.
maotzetof 3 months ago
Let me see if I can explain what Occam's Razor Actually says (not what you say it says) to you in the simplest way possible:
If I have a chicken that has laid a quantity of eggs, it is better for me to determine how many eggs I have by actually counting the eggs than to make assumptions about how many eggs there are. It doesn't matter with what simplicity or complexity I count the eggs, just so long as I don't make any assumptions in the counting. That's about as simple as I can make it for you.
FuckYouLetMeLogIn 5 months ago
WRONG! Occams razor makes no comment on the complexity of a hypothesis. Rather, it states that it is more logical to, when faced with competing hypotheses that are equal in other respects, select the one that makes the fewest new assumptions. A theory or hypothesis that makes no assumptions is infinitely more logical than ANY theory that makes even one assumption, no matter how complex the former theory is and no matter how simple the latter theory.
Way to fail Logic 101.
FuckYouLetMeLogIn 5 months ago
Matter of fact, when I came across your video I responded to the "debunking atheism" portion of your title, not the video itself.
The second I clicked on your video I muted it, because I dislike reggae.
Now, I just tried watching your entire video and had to stop at 2:09, because I have no idea what you are talking about.
So you can stop saying that atheists use the razor to argue their belief as if it's some universal thing they are all familiar with.
That's simply not true.
BastEternal 7 months ago
@gulbirk before you open your mouth watch the video and do the research yourself before you open your mouth spewing your lies ....
demorris766126 7 months ago
@MrJoNVaughan no atheists used the razor to argue there belief
demorris766126 7 months ago
@demorris766126 then you do not know what you are talking about
demorris766126 7 months ago
How does one "debunk" atheism?
There is nothing to debunk, unless you think DISBELIEVING a claim is debunkable....
BastEternal 7 months ago
@BastEternal atheism is the belief there is no god .... and has been debunked
demorris766126 7 months ago
@demorris766126
You said that already..repeating "debunked" doesn't make it so.
You said in another post that atheists use occam's razor to argue their belief. I'm an atheist, and I am not familiar with occam's razor. I became atheist BEFORE I heard of it, even before I heard of evolution, darwin, etc.
The only reason I became atheist was because of the lack of evidence for the biblical god, the god I USED to believe existed. Nothing more.
BastEternal 7 months ago
point is you atheists most of you try to use the razor to prove god does not exist then when your theory is knocked down you Deni it ... god is real face it you could not possibly exist without a creator and the true scientists are proving this all the time you dismiss them simply because it goes agents your atheist religion ... cry and complain all you like you are wrong end of discussion
demorris766126 8 months ago
00:54 hahahahahaha, no sorry boy, you need to read up on occams racor again.
The "simple" one is not the better one (whatever that means). Occams razor states that among the plausible/possible theories the one that requires the lesser amount of assumtions is more probable. It has not been used as claim to existence or non existence, thats only by people who dont know what it means, like you.
gulbirk 8 months ago
@gulbirk what ever that means ????? goes to show you know nothing lmbo
demorris766126 8 months ago
@demorris766126 whatever that means?? You mean you didnt understand it, LOL. Its the basic of your OWN thinking. Amoung compeating possible theories the one that requires the least amount of asumptions is more probably (which means its more likely to be true)
gulbirk 8 months ago
@demorris766126 what are you talking about idiot ? i understand everything i post ... imbecile
demorris766126 7 months ago
@gulbirk go and learn what you are talking about before you open your trap
demorris766126 7 months ago
@demorris766126 Maybe you should go read what Occams razors first prinsiple is. Instead of stepping in half way through it, LOL.
gulbirk 7 months ago
The reason people are so fond of using the Razor to argue against religion is because we live in, and thus have proof of, the natural world. A god would exist in the supernatural world. In other words you'd have to invent or imagine a completely different system with different unobservable laws.
Also, evolution doesn't say anything about how this universe got here. Even if you hold the literal story of creation as true, evolution doesn't dispute it.
ZeDingoBlag 11 months ago
Lets assume there is a divine god, that always existed. Let's also assume he has a free will. When he created the earth, the universe and everything, why did he do that? What caused him to do decide that he wants to do that? What did he do before that? The reason I prefer atheism over theism is that it doesn't require faith. Faith only bears scam and lies.
mabank 1 year ago
@mabank hope you prefer hellfire and brimstone ... hell is where all unbelievers will go ... :.(
demorris766126 7 months ago
@demorris766126
I asked a muslim recently about this. He said the same. Must be true then. But he also said that all Christians and Jews and all non-Muslims will go to hell, too. I asked him for proof. He showed me his book. Its much cooler than the bible. And more holy and stuff.
Looks like you're fu**ed! You better convert to islam.
mabank 6 months ago
@demorris: evolution doesn't contradict the biblical account? Doesn't the bible say that god made all living things at once, much the same as they are now? In particular, does the bible not say that god made man directly, rather than evolving him from an ape-like ancestor?
DreamGranules 1 year ago
@DreamGranules evolution contradicts the bible 100 % and calls god a lire ... according to evolution and the heathen life sprang up from a pool of shyt ... basically ...... god said he created the world in 6 days and rested on the seventh ... evolution says man come from apes .... sorry you are wrong ...
demorris766126 7 months ago
@DreamGranules or do you think i agreed with the bs of evolution ?
demorris766126 7 months ago
@Censeo: I suspect most Xians don't worry about debunking the Baghavad Gita much. Of course you're right that evolution and atheism aren't necessarily related. One can also be an atheist and not believe evolution. I guess the traits are just linked commonly enough that theists, particularly Xians, believe it's the same.
DreamGranules 1 year ago
FATAL FLAW: Incorrect use of Occam's razor
According to RationalWiki, a source I trust more than anything else, the razor is a simple minimalist principle where too many assumptions make finding a solution to a problem impossible. Creationists use it incorrectly by saying that since their hypothesis are simpler than natural processes it makes theirs true by default. But the simplest explanation won't work if it raises more questions than it answers and goddidit is just copping out.
cadman2300 1 year ago
simplicity is not quite the same as multiplying entities unnecessarily. The most likely explanation is currently unknown naturally occurring phenomena that can be explained scientifically.
naejimba 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY i actually typed one but i don't know what happened to it ill redo it later lol
demorris766126 1 year ago
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7 : 13 - 14)
demorris766126 1 year ago
@PostITnoteGUY magic has nothing to do with anything, it is not magic or fairytale god simply is ,and it is for you to accept or reject we are not forced to worship Christ . though it makes no sense not to ...
demorris766126 1 year ago
@retepvosnul i don't need to defend god to know he exists ... i am just trying to help others find the true path so they will find faith in god rather than to burn in the lake of fire.....
demorris766126 1 year ago
@retepvosnul WHY IS IT THEN THAT ATHEISTS USE THE RAZOR AS ONE OF THEIR MAIN ARGUMENTS TO TRY AND DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD ???
demorris766126 1 year ago
@demorris766126
"TO TRY AND DISPROVE THE EXISTENCE OF GOD"
Eh, we do?
Sorry i missed that part, i'm a lazy atheist i guess ;)
I'm still waiting for prove god does exist.
But before that, i'm still waiting on good evidence that the bible is not a work of 'the devil' ...... i'm sure you can provide me that evidence demorris
mindwis3 1 year ago
@mindwis3 look around you there is your proof .....all you see ,your very existence is proof .... without intelligent design how do you exist ??? the "big bang " ? evolution , by chance ? now there is your make believe fairytale all you see is not possible without god... just look at a single human cell scientists can not come close to mapping one single cell ....research this for yourself ....
demorris766126 1 year ago
@demorris766126 (1)
"look around you there is your proof "
- yeah, "look at the trees".... no sorry demorris, that won't do. Nature is evidence for the natural and not for the superatural, you'll have to expain WHY i.e. trees are evidence.
saying "how do you exist ???" is called an "argument from ignorance", which is a logical fallacy.
Rather then claiming "i don't see how X could be the answer, therefore it's Y", you should bring positive evidence for Y being correct... more to come....(2)
mindwis3 1 year ago
@demorris766126 (2)
"all you see is not possible without god.."
- Everyone can just make claims, i can do that to: "god is not possible".
But that's just empty claims Dear DeMorris. It's all about the reasons for making claims
" scientists can not come close to mapping one single cell"
- Dude, please, scientists have mapped the Human Gnome.
Cells, and in particular the Mitochondria, are more evidence for evolution then you realize.
".research this"
-yes, well, I think i'm well ahead of you :p
mindwis3 1 year ago
@mindwis3 Technology and Research (A*STAR), Chia-Lin Wei, Ph.D., said, "In this study, we mapped a major component of the epigenome, DNA methylation, for the entire sequence of human DNA, and went further by comparing three types of cells that represented three stages of human development: human embryonic stem cells, human embryonic stem cells that were differentiated into skin-like cells, and cells derived from skin
demorris766126 1 year ago
@demorris766126
"In this study, we mapped a major component of the epigenome, DNA methylation"
I'm sorry, is there a particular point you're making with that study?
Thanks,
mindwis3 1 year ago
@mindwis3 i did not read it all but i will research this more when i have the time....
sciencedaily dot om/releases/2010/02/100203141326.htm
demorris766126 1 year ago
@demorris766126 key word " a major component " not all
demorris766126 1 year ago
@mindwis3 i cant post the vid here so look on my channel it is featured
demorris766126 1 year ago
@retepvosnul
Nice post retep, i'd make one change though ;)
rahter then:
" It [god] is a solution for a problem that does not exist. "
"It [god] is a problem for a solution that does not exist"
But your's may be better :)
mindwis3 1 year ago
@mindwis3 Wow! By switching those two words changed the dynamics of the point. Once again, you've given me a reason to enjoy thinking too much! *and the headache afterwards*
wysiwyg43 1 year ago
@wysiwyg43
Hey Carmen :)
Nice to see you, and happy to share the headache :)
mindwis3 1 year ago
@mindwis3 god is the only solution my friend...
demorris766126 1 year ago
Not very impressive, really. It doesn't really matter what Occam did with the principle or whether he was daring enough to use it to debunk the supernatural. Had he done so, he may have been killed.
DreamGranules 1 year ago
Keep the faith brother, against all odds ;)
mindwis3 1 year ago
I'm not sure why evolution has anything to do with atheism. Even if God exist, natural events had to take place. I.e grown human being popping out of nowhere or dust chemically altering to flesh and bones in human male form are natural events weather or not a creator was behind these or not. If you believe in god and wish to know what method he used, you can either study science or... if you believe genesis is literal, have faith in that. But evolution is no theory of divine presence or abscence
Censeo 1 year ago
@Censeo It's because evolution contradicts the biblical account. While there are theists who believe in evolution, anyone who's a literal reader of Genesis has to exclude evolution.
DreamGranules 1 year ago
@DreamGranules evolution does not contradict the biblical account. ,evolution theory is simply wrong........ and some people are close minded and have been deceived.... most scientists are atheists you actually think they would publish the truth even if they knew the bible was true ? history is filled full of lies by those who have bad intentions , open your eyes find truth for your self ........
demorris766126 1 year ago
@demorris766126 If theory of evolution does not contradict biblical scripture, then what is your reason for distrusting this science? Do you know much about the theory? I was wondering cause you mentioned something about... chance?! Is it the mutations you mean? We know mutations occur, and they're many, so we can't predict them and know in advance which make genes gets selected in the particular environment a creature lives in, but random is only used as a pragmatic term for unpredictability.
Censeo 1 year ago
@Censeo i have no distrust toward science or evolution it exists , but not by chance and not on its own the universe has intelligent design and any "big bang or evolution , the creation of the universe and people was set in motion by god ,the problem i have is with Satan deceiving mankind and with people blaspheming god...
demorris766126 1 year ago
@demorris766126
"the universe has intelligent design"
- really? what makes you say that ?
"the creation of the universe and people was set in motion by god "
Set in motion? -> that does not sound very biblical to me. Bibilical it would be 'set' -> which scripture supports "set IN MOTION" ?
"Satan deceiving"
- ow please.......if you want to convince someone who does not believe in god, then please don't say thinkgs like "Orcs" or "Satan", give REAL reasons, that works much better.
Rgds,
mindwis3 1 year ago
@Censeo 7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
demorris766126 1 year ago
@Censeo 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 2 John 1
demorris766126 1 year ago
@demorris766126 And why would people deny what they knew were true? Especially scientists? Theist scientists would definitely inform the public if they found evidence for what they already believe in. And atheist don't distrust god. They don't believe the claim of existence. So there would be no big deal hiding the discovery of any god once they found it.. cause they'd be believers by then.
Censeo 1 year ago
@DreamGranules Well, Bahavadgita contradicts biblical accounts too and that doesn't make it have anything to do with atheism. I've not yet heard anyone give any actual reason for why evolution and atheism are related. Many atheists accept science in general more easily, but that is only because they don't have emotional investment in believing anything in particular through faith.
Censeo 1 year ago
@Censeo Occam's Razor is sometimes used to defeat arguments for the existence of God and support the rationality of atheism" as well as evolution they believe we were created by evolution by chance not by a creator or intelligent design
this is the main point i am stressing , i do believe in the bible and god , and i cant understand how anyone can believe in all this our universe our lives existing by chance , and hopefully i can get some people to change their mind 31 minutes ago
demorris766126 1 year ago
@demorris,
"i cant understand how anyone can believe in all this our universe our lives existing by chance , and hopefully i can get some people to change their mind "
-Change their mind to not understand either because you don't?
Perhaps you should demonstrate that God exists, so you're at least giving a real alternative?
Occam's razor is a method to help determine the most plausible explanation. It's nothing more, and it's not always correct either....
Rgds,
mindwis3 1 year ago