Sigh... I really dislike this. Anyway fast forward 2 years later, the full-time staff in his church are actually listening and receiving to the very same pastor this guy preached against.
Thank God, and really Pastor Khong Hee gave more air time to that pastor and PREACHED the gospel for that very pastor.
People who are broken.
People who are desolate.
...are hearing of a grace that demands nothing but gives EVERYTHING.
Eclectic derby..you explained everything just as it should be understood. Too many Preachers pervert this story of the rich young ruler to mean that you must keep the commandments and sell all you have. Jesus was trying to show him that if HE wants to do it himself,, earn his own way, then he wold have to live a PERFECT LIFE from the dayhe was born to the day he died. THAT, of course is an impossibility. tO try to work your way to Heaven is saying that Jesus did not do enough.
@genevaconference Thanks! after that verse, Jesus said (Mark 10:23) It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God!
His discples asked, How can anyone go to heaven?
Jesus provided the answer: "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."
When we are in Christ Jesus, ALL THINGS are possible! Our salvation is possible not becuase of our good works but because of Jesus's work on the cross!
"know that A MAN IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW BUT BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO-ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED."
what sort of sermon is this, criticising other preachers? I thought a sermon should always speak of Jesus and the Word, the Bread of Life. I never knew Jesus to speak like this. O dear, who is a "cheap grace speaker" now?
Hahah! He spends most his sermon, time, energy hitting on what he calls "cheap" grace preachers.. Pathetic! He doesnt know he looks like one already. tsk! Joseph Prince is cool! Forget about this pathetic guy! He is one of brood of vipers Jesus talk about in the Bible. A hypocrite!
It's called envy and jealousy! What happened to love one another and taking the shaft out of your eye? How do we know what you preach is right? Through Grace you are more apt to keep the Law which is written in your heart and through the Holy Spirit you are prompt to keep the Law and stay on the Narrow Path. I pray God will give Pastor Kong revelation on this matter of Grace and its intention.
It's not CHEAP grace! It required God's sacrifice! Frankly I went to visit City Harvest way earlier before I visited New Creation but I was not touched by God at the service. But when I went to New Creation, I was touched and brought lots of people there ever since. However, I believe God has a purpose for having so many different types of churches. DIfferent churches for people's different needs. God loves us all!
Went all the way to a faraway land to put down another pastor. Happened in 2004, when he was already a well known church leader/preacher in Singapore for more than a decade then. Only to reveal his true state of heart and mind, how sad. Forgive him as GOD for Christ sake has forgiven us.
A wreath of thorns became Yr crown.My curse was laid upon Yr brow. Yr wounds displayed for all to see.Yr body torn to rescue me.My sins You're faithful to forget. B'cos Yr love n justice met.There at the cross upon that hill. Lord,U fulfilled the Father's will.My stain of sin,Yr Blood erased.My life redeemed,Lord by Yr Grace. Healed n restored in Yr embrace.Now all i see is Yr lovely face.Righteous n bold i come to U.Solely b'cos U gave.Yr life for mine upon that cross.Love made U take my place.
He who says " I know him " and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him 1 john 2:4. also see 1 corinthians 6:9 , galatians 5:19 and revelation 21:8 and rev 22 :14. also if you really want to get down to it then read 1 john chapter 3 - that will totally show how your wrong to think sin is no big deal and we just keep getting forgiven all the time - read hebrews 10: 26 if you think you will keep getting forgiven for sinning when you already know its wrong.
The woman caught in adultery? Jesus said: "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." He didnt say: "go and stop sinning, and i will forgive you." WE GOT IT UPSIDE DOWN! The church today just keep saying: follow the law which will make you holy. You know wat the bible says?
Galatians 3: read the whole context.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:...
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us!
@eclecticderby Your only fooling yourself. In hebrews 5:9 it says he became the eternal author of salvation to all those that obey him. Jesus also said think not that I came to abolish the law or the prophets- I came not to abolish but to fulfill. He said if you love me - keep my commandmants. And this is how we know him - that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not greivous. Why call me lord lord and do not do the things I say to do ? keeping commandments is evidence of salvation
@fernieboy100 The word 'obey' in Greek in that passage is, guess what, BELIEVE. So, he became the eternal author of salvation to all those that BELIEVE him.
a word of advice: if you debt is fulfilled, do NOT go back to the bank to pay up more. If the law is FULFILLED, it is FULFILLED. Romans 6:14, "You are not under law but under grace." The Bible is so clear, it takes idiotic, self righteous idiots to confuse us. Jesus healed all. Forgave all. Only the pharisees did not receive his grace.
@eclecticderby Jesus says " depart from me you workers of law lessness - they would not follow his laws. I realize that salvation is a gift and we dont earn heaven by keeping the law - but trampling on his laws can land a person in hell - 1 corinthians 6:9 - all the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus gave you no free license to sin - all scripture is true - it does not contradict itself. Name calling is an evil fruit and you are bearing it - maybe you need to repent.
You must rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). When Jesus said those words in your comment, he was saying before He died for our sins, when the Law is still valid. We must DIVIDE the word and know that today we are not under the law.
Anyway, the context of the statement is not about the law, its about 'the will of the father (Matthew 7:21)' which is for the world to be saved by faith in Jesus. I hate how you take verses out of context and then says it's true.
1 corinthians 6:9 - All righteousness is a gift to us, the believers. Unrighteous people are people who are not saved! Again, you are taking your verses out of context. Since you like out of context verses so much, in the old testament it says 'circumcision is an everlasting covenant' - are you circumcised?
Titus 2:11-12: For the GRACE of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, TEACHING us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lust... Grace TEACHES us to be holy.
@fernieboy100 stop ignoring the complete doctrine that Paul, under the holy spirit, taught. Every single verses you quoted are out of context. Sin shall have NO DOMINION over you for you are not under law, but under grace. The strength of sin is the law. Even paul himself said, before the law, he was once ALIVE. The law is holy - so holy that humans can never keep them. it's fundamental we understand that our own righteousness will never be enough, only Jesus can keep the law. He died for us.
@eclecticderby romans 3:31 - do we make void the law through faith ? GOD FORBID - yea we ESTABLISH THE LAW. This verse states clear as day that we do not make void the law - in fact we stablish the law. Beleive it or not you can have faith in Jesus - receive his mercy and grace - AND keep Gods laws too - I know this might be suprising because most churches don't teach it.
10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
this means the law had glory, but the SPIRIT has more glory! Law is passed away!
Then in the next verse, paul says the law is a veil! =)
You're convincing yourself but you're definitely not convincing me- i have read enough verses about commandments to know that true beleivers keep the commandments. I understand what grace is - the work of God to both will and do his good pleasure. I know the faith of abraham - beleiving Gods word and everything God says -- I am well aware of that - your preaching to the choir. I know jesus forgives my past sins if i repent of them. Jesus was not kidding when he said go and sin no more
@fernieboy100 you got it right by saying that believers hate sin. I hate sin. My gripe with you is the “schizophrenic Christianity" that you advocate.
Let it be known, God and Jesus hate sin, but sin does not matter in our salvation, because God love sinners, and He judge all our sins today and forever on the cross. Sin have no dominion over us as we are under grace. Where sin abound, grace much more abound. Believers hate sin not because of the law, but because of grace. It's a fruit of grace.
@eclecticderby Remember what I said about how all the verses have to be true ? thats how you know you are preaching the truth - when what you are saying agrees with every single thing in the bible - the verses about grace have to fit - the verses about jesus sacrifice have to fit - the verses about faith and works have to fit and the verses about the commandments have to fit too. You can't ignore any of the verses but you have to find the truth that lines up with all the scriptures
@fernieboy100 yes, you are right. So now, we know that law is to bring us to know that we are sinful. Now that we know, do we still turn back to the law, which the verses I placed says clearly that we are no longer under the law? The law is just, but it cannot justify. The law is holy but it cannot sanctify us. The law is good, but it produces curse on us and sin abounded. we under grace, will sin no more, because our sins are forgiven forever, we love God MORE and sin is stopped.
@fernieboy100 breaking the law, sinning, will not stop you from heaven. knowing that all your sins are forgiven empowers you to stop sinning. If we turn to grace, like Paul has been saying in his letters, you will see results. That's why Pastor Prince church is so blessed! it's all god's grace. With this mentality, we wont be scolding church members and condemning them. Many left church because they are condemn, and they continue to sin. Many break free from sin when they learn of forgiveness.
@eclecticderby breaking the law and sinning WILL stop you from going to heaven. Remember you can't ignore any verses - every single verse has to fit - thats how you know you have found the truth. I realize there are many churches that never talk about repentance - but we have to make sure we are preaching what the bible says - not just some comfy politically correct version that fills our churches and nets us a handsome profit - the mega churches in the usa never preach repentance - its wrong
@fernieboy100 in Acts, the disciples preached grace, forgiveness of sins. nowhere did they preach the law. Paul even announce a double curse in (Galatians 1:6-10) to whichever angel of heaven did not preach the GRACE of CHRIST. Not the LAW of Moses. You said the disciples preached law, and that wat i am saying is of hell? nonsense. dun be hoodwinked by the devil. I have shown you scripture after scripture. in acts 2:14-36, look at what peter preached. NO LAW. only about Jesus saving.
@ Yes that verse is very true as all verses in the bible are true. Now read before in verse 5 it says jesus gave himself for our sins that might DELIVER US FROM THIS PRESENT EVIL WORLD The power of Jesus delivers us from the power of evil !!! and then in verse 10 he talks about how his gospel is not pleasing to men but that its from God. He says IF his gospel was pleasing to men he would NOT be the servant of Christ - Cheap grace appeals to men, to the masses - and it doesn't deliver from evil
@fernieboy100 His grace delivers us from sins.AMEN! this is what we should preach- that his grace remove our sins forever, and deliver us from evil. We just need to rest in Christ, and knowing that we are not condemned, sins have no dominion over us. NOWHERE did it says : "Jesus gave himself for our sins that might DELIVER US FROM THIS PRESENT EVIL WORLD, but sorry , now please the law. "
your focus should be Jesus giving his life for us for our sins, thus we are delivered forever. not the law.
@fernieboy100 we are obeying the ministry of the spirit. The holy spirit governs us. 2 Corinthians: Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory...
This means that the law HAVE GLORY. The law had glory. but it is passing away:
2 Cor 3: 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
@eclecticderby The holy spirit always lines up with the word of God - if " the holy spirit " is not saying the exact same thing as the bible then its NOT the holy spirit. People that do not obey do NOT have the holy spirit even if they THINK they do. acts 5:32 says the holy spirit is given to those that obey - so what are they obeying ? you keep sidestepping the verses about the commandments - you can embrace grace - faith - and keeping the commandments which is obedience - all of them
@fernieboy100 give u a tip: stop worrying about what to obey what not to obey. Just ask God, the holy spirit will tell you. We are no longer looking at the law. The ministry of the spirit is our leading force.
28-30"Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace.
@fernieboy100 so i really hope u undgerstand what i have been tellin you. =) good night buddy, its been a great debate, ultimately, it's fruitful, though it's not really nice that 2 brothers in Christ are arguing in public domain. Let's take this debate out on our private msgs - what says you?
We obey what he said he came for. did he not said that the son of man will take all our sins and suffer on the cross? did not all the disciples affirm the stand that our sins are all forgiven? Obey in many places in the NT in greek is "believe". The just shall live by faith. The law is not of faith.
You have to understand that the words jesus said in OLD COVENANT, eg. take up the cross, is fulfilled by his death and new covenant- our old man are crucified with Him, says paul.
@fernieboy100 I give a very good example of how to understand the words jesus spoke before he died for our sins. In the Road to Emmaus, Jesus told His 2 disciples, : "And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning HIMSELF."
throughout the bible, we should look for Jesus. Did Jesus expound them on the law? no. The old covenant is the new covenant concealed. The NT revealed the doctrine. Look at the full picture.
@fernieboy100 The bible is written for us, but not all written TO us. Rightly divide the word. EG. Mk.10:17-22 the rich ruler asked, “Good teacher (Rabbi) what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? He recognizes that he does not have eternal life, who better to ask then Jesus. What must I do to have it. He has a works related idea for salvation. So jesus gave him the law, to put him to the end of himself.He knew that this man was looking for a way to earn his salvation on his own terms.
@fernieboy100 So from the rich young ruler story, many thought that the 10 commandments are needed for eternal life. It is of cos not true. If whatever jesus said we must do to go to heaven, then not a SINGLE one of us have carried the cross. Have you? what about you sell your computer now, because having a computer to comment on youtube means that you have not sell ALL your possessions to help the poor. So when you boasted that you can keep all the law, honestly, you didnt by jesus standard.
@fernieboy100 In Luke 18: the rich ruler left sorrowful, for he was very rich, and the laws he cannot keep. No one can. In luke 19, Jesus come to Zacchaeus’ House WITH NO LAWS GIVEN. jesus simply gave grace by dining with him. the people complained that Jesus is dining with SINNERS.
And this grace given, the result is that Zacchaeus pledge to give his possessions away. NO LAW given. That is what i am saying - the law wont change a person,only jesus' grace can. You have to look beyond the law.
@eclecticderby The women caught in adultery was about to be stoned under mosaic law - Jesus stopped that stoning - the ten commandments are eternal - we do not earn heaven by keeping commandments - we keep the commandments once we are born again because we want to obey God. People that constantly break the commandments are not saved. repent means to stop sinning and turn away from sin. You are not forgiven if you keep doing it - if you keep doing it you obviously are not sorry about it !!!!!
In revelation 12:17 it says that the dragon was wroth with the women and went to make war with the remnant of her seed - WHO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND HAVE THE FAITH OF JESUS. Satan is furious with this group that keeps the commandments and also has the faith of Jesus - having both these things is what makes him wroth !!! to the law and to the testimony - if anyone speaks not according to these two things there is no light in them. Jesus tells the lawless to depart from him on judgement
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. John 1:17
the word 'came' in greek word is 'COMES'. Meaning: grace AND truth COMES by Jesus Christ. This means God sees GRACE AND TRUTH as one and the same! The truth is not the law, that came by moses - the truth is grace by Jesus!
you cannot keep the law and then says you are under grace.
"And the law is not of faith: but, The man that does them shall live in them." Galatians 3:12
@eclecticderby lol Grace is the work of god to both will and to do of his good pleasure - If you have faith you will keep the law. If you beleive you will obey. If you obey you will receive the holy spirit acts 5:32 don't obey - no holy spirit
@fernieboy100 Grace and law is NOT THE Same thing. They cannot mix. Law is not of faith. I told you b4, and i m not changing my stand. your lack of understanding is putting words in my mouth. The law cannot be kept by us. Grace and truth COMES by Jesus, law came by Moses. We are no longer under The law of moses. Turning back is giving sin its strength.
@eclecticderby the verses about grace are true the verses about the law are true - all verses in the bible are true. Who told you that the law cannot be kept by us ? things that are impossible with men ARE possible with God. Where in the bible does it say we cannot keep the law ? if you can't show me then I will ask you to never EVER say something like that again. We know that we know God when we KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT GREIVOUS.. IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS !
@fernieboy100 The lady with the blood condition broke many laws to touch Jesus. Jesus said "your faith made you well." The lady caught in adultery? Jesus said "neither do I condemn you, GO and sin no more." The NO Condemnation is first, then the power to sin no more. We want to break your sins? Understand first that God do not impute your sins, He remembers your sins no more, only then can we be empowered to stop sinning. There is therefore now NO condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
@eclecticderby Thats right Jesus did not condemn the women for her past sins - she was forgiven for her past sins and at that point jesus said go and sin no more. That story truly captured what salvation is about - being forgiven for our past and going forward and sinning no more - if anyone be in christ he is a new creature behold old things are past away - all things are become new. repeat OLD THINGS ARE PAST AWAY - and those old things are forgiven - but they are not to be continued
it would not make any sense to say old things are passed away and then just keep doing them - all the verses about grace are true - all the verses about faith are true - all the verses about the commandments are true - all the verses about repenting are true - all the things jesus said are true - they all have to be true if you want to rightfully divide the word of God like you say you want to. You can't ignore the commandments verses - or any verse for that matter-
@fernieboy100 Exactly. Our sins are forever forgiven. in the new covenant, God say that He will remember our sins NO MORE. In the greek, never ever remember our sins. Why is that so? because Jesus died for our sins. Because of adam, we became sinners. now, because of Jesus, we are righteous. because we are made righteous, we sin no more. again, sinning doesnt not affect our salvation, it is the RESULT of Jesus freely giving us righteousness. The letter (law) kills, but the spirit gives life.
@ecle Thats right our past sins will be remembered no more - but again hebrews 10:26 says if we willfully sin after we have recieved knowledge of the truth there is no more sacrifice for sin. So lets make sure we do not sin after we know the truth because if we do there is no more sacrifice for sin. If you are made righteous then you won't keep sinning will you ? I think you are taking sin way too lightly - it is not "legalist" to obey God - that word is not even in the bible - its a buzz word
"Therefore NO-ONE will be declared righteous in his (God's) sight by the works of the law; rather through the law we become conscious of sin. NOW the righteousness from God, apart from the law has been made known... THIS RIGHTEOUSNESS FROM GOD COMES THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST TO ALL WHO BELIEVE... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and ARE JUSTIFIED FREELY BY HIS GRACE THROUGH THE REDEMPTION THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS.
@fernieboy100 AMEN! we practice sin no more. Next time when you look to God, and you know even when you fail ourGod still says it's ok, I will still forgive and loves you, you will be empowered to sin no more. No point telling people to keep the law because the power of stopping sin is not in the law - its the grace of God. That's my whole point. And that's what paul has been saying all along.
@fernieboy100 where did it says Law will condemn us to hell? In the old covenant. After Jesus died we are in the new covenant. Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Because of what Jesus did, God must honor his work - which is taking away ALL our sins, forever. That's why in the greek, God says he will NEVER EVER remember our sins. We need to believe Jesus in the new covenant.
@fernieboy100 that's why instead of telling people - you shall not do this and that (the law), tell people - COME back because God has forgiven all your sins, past parent and future. Turn back to God because he is your Father. That's the power to break sin. The holiness is the result of knowing that no sins can bring us to hell. That when we sine, we look back to jesus - the right direction- and he will help us. Look, the father bought out a LAMB for the prodigal son in the story - that's Jsus!
@fernieboy100 do you preach the forgiveness of sins as paul did? Paul pronoun a curse on those who do not preach grace:
(Galatians 1:6-10) 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the GRACE OF CHRIST unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
why would Jesus stopped the stoning? isn't it valid that she be stoned? REPENT in the greek means : to change your mind. Not the religious "repent" you talking about, about stop sinning - WE HAVE BEEN DEAD TO SIN.
Adam cause the world to be sinners. Before we were saved, we cannot be saved by doing good deeds, we can only be saved by believing Jesus. now on the same token, Jesus made all believers righteous, no bad deeds can take away this salvation.
@eclecticderby you're promoting a false gospel that lacks obedience- all the unrighteous do not inherit the kingdom of God - even people that think they are saved - if they live in sin and are unrihhteous they too will miss out. The devil beleives in God - just passively believing in God will not save you. You have to turn from sin - if you change your mind then you would stop doing it - your gospel makes excuses for sin - Jesus gospel is according to holiness - all scripture makes sense -
That's how we rightfully divide the word of God - we know that ALL of the verses have to be true. I have not taken a thing out of context - you say no bad deeds can take away salvation ? jesus said unless ye repent you will all likewise perish !! That is turning away of our wicked ways - why do so many people think they can hold onto sin and have salvation at the same time !!!- its simply not true. It's a false doctrine from hell. If you are truly born again sin will have no dominion over you.
Jesus said he is the true vine, we are the branches. Those who do not bear fruits he takes away. The greek word actually means : lift up, meaning when we dun not bear fruits, Jesus lift us up so that we bear fruits. This is the true grace of God, until u understand grace YOU CAN NEVER BREAK SIN.
Easy to understand: "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace" (Romans 6:14). " Under law, YOU SIN.
@eclecticderby keeping the commandments does not earn heaven - but breaking them can land you in hell. The law is for those that are unrighteous - if You follow the spirit you will keep Gods laws, If you think you can keep sinning and have salvation too your only fooling yourself - I realize we are under grace - but people that think grace is a ticket to sin are dead wrong. we have seen verses that say keep the commandments and also that sin will have no dominion over you
if a person is dominated by sin and they break his commandments guess what ? they are not saved. They have not repented and turned away from sin. All through the bible we can see the message about turning from sin - now to say we dont have to turn from sin and just beleive is absolutely ridiculous - if you truly beleive the gospel then you will also have the fear of God in your life. We have free will to sin or not - we have to turn away from sin - then God has mercy on us and changes us.
@eclecticderby Faith in Jesus is what overcomes sin. I can do all things through Christ. Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. Jesus sets the captive free - free from what ? FREE FROM BONDAGE TO SIN. Faith in Jesus is the only way we can overcome the world !!! things that are not possible with men ( like keeping the law) are possible with God. Now suddenly people CAN keep the law because the holy spirit is in them - when you turn from sin - Jesus gives you strength !! Amen
@fernieboy100 where did I say that grace is license to sin? please, quote me if I said that, don't put words in my mouth. Jesus said those words to his disciples, and the pharisees. That was also BEFORE he died for our sins. indeed, for those who want the law, they shall live by the law. none of the healed sinners obeyed the law, but Jesus healed them all. He didnt say :your law-keeping, good deeds made you well. he said your FAITH made you well. Law is not of faith (Galatians 3:12)
@fernieboy100 All i want to say is this: you want to obey God, then turn to grace, let his spirit minister to you. Dun try by your might to keep the law which curse he has died for us to be delivered from. Grace is not disobeying God, grace is turnign to him, andk nowing his love changes you. That your salvation iseternal. The security in his arms will help you to sin no more, and before you know it, you are keeping the 10 commandments, without trying. Good day.
@eclecticderby that is what i have been saying the entire time - so now you ARE saying that grace is Gods work in us that helps us keep the ten commandments effortlessly - well thats good because that is what grace is - you can never think sin is no big deal - sin is a huge deal !! I have never doubted grace or what Jesus did on the cross - I have only said that sin DOES matter - and CAN be overcome - through grace -and if we are saved- grace we will help us keep the commandments !!!
@fernieboy100 repent is turning to Jesus, repentance is not your idea of NOT SINNING. Yes NOT SINNING is good, it's important, but it is the result of grace, not the result of trying by our own might to keep the law. You said I didnt pick apart all your verses but i did one by one. my verses, such as "For we are NOT under law but under grace" and "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." are certainly good and true.
@eclecticderby In Isaiah 55:7 God tells people to turn from their wicked ways and unrighteous thoughts. You seem to think you can change your mind but continue to do it - you are having a problem with turning from sin. It's true we are not under law - we ARE under grace BUT we still keeps the law as romans 3:31 clearly states. We stablish the law it says - god forbid we make the law void.
@eclecticderby yes but you can see how they have already turned from their evil ways and unrighteous thoughts before he pardons them. That is turning from sin - repenting
@fernieboy100 Righteousness is a GIFT to all who believe. Read your bible. Jesus is obviously talking about non-believers. I quoted the Bible on numerous occasions, showing you the consistent gospel of grace. however, you just keep saying that grace is license to sin. NO. Grace teaches you to be holy. Without Jesus, without grace, you can do NOTHING.
@eclecticderby Jesus loves righteousness and obedience - what do you think about obedience ? don't you think truly beleiving and obeying go hand in hand ? you think its impossible to keep the commandments ? which one is impossible to keep ? you get all bent out of shape when i talk about the commandments - do you think Gods laws are bad ? no killing no stealing no lying no adultery - where is the big problem here ? Born again people are happy to keep Gods laws - they dont mind one bit
For if, by the trespass of the one man [Adam], death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
10th commandment: you shall not covert. you cannot even get angry, lest you have committed murder in your mind. that's why no one can keep the law except Jesus who died for us. To say u can keep the law means you dun need Jesus.
@eclect Where do you come up with this stuff ? If you are born again you will hate sin - born again people have no desire to break commandments - thats what grace is - it is obeying Gods laws because we truly want to - its not like he is twisting our arm to do it lol. It is God that works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. When you have a strong dislike for any and all sin and have a strong desire to obey God - that is the work of God in you - giving you grace - more and more
The woman caught in adultery? Jesus said: "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." He didnt say: "go and stop sinning, and i will forgive you." WE GOT IT UPSIDE DOWN! The church today just keep saying: follow the law which will make you holy. You know wat the bible says?
Galatians 3: read the whole context.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:...
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us!
I am going to leave you with one last verse: 2 Cor: 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. --- THE VEIL is the law.
This passage also states that the 10 COMMANDMENTS is the ministry of death (engraved and written on stones). I can understand why you cant see grace because you are VEILED by the law.
17: Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. - NOT LAW, spirit will set you free and tear your VEIL!!!
@eclecticderby You dont understand - if you break the commandments its death - if you obey them its life. Does a law punish those that obey it ? no it punishes the ones that disobey it. Jesus said think not that I came to abolish the law, and he also said not one jot or tittle shall disappear from the law till all things be fulfilled - have ALL things been fulfilled ? no they have not. The law is still there and its to be obeyed
All scripture is true - 1 john 2:4 says he who says " I know him" and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. Anyone that knows God knows how serious he takes obedience. Jesus said if you love me - keep my commandments. also it says and by this we do know that we know him - when he keep his commandments and his commandments are not greivous. revelation 12;17 plainly tells us the devil is angry with those that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.
@fernieboy100 2 cor is obviously talking about a letter by Paul (1 cor) which upset them because they did not turn to Jesus. They were sinning. But they turned to Jesus for salvation: "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret."
the greek word in the bible for repentance is not your idea of not sinning. God Himself repented. "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." (exodus 32:14) God didn't sin, but he repent= change of mind.
@eclecticderby That is exactly right - God repented - God repented of what he was going to do that is correct - he turned away from what he was going to do and stopped what he was going to do. Your starting to get this. repent means to turn away and stop your old wicked hell bound ways and not make excuses for it or think you can live in willful sin and still get into heaven. We have faith - we have grace - and because grace makes us want to obey God - we also keep his commandments - amen
@eclecticderby there are some who think keeping the ten commandments is what saves us - that is not true - what I am saying is that keeping the commandments is evidence of salvation - and not keeping them is evidence a personj is not saved - keeping the commandments is just our expected duty. - if we are truly born again we can keep the law because the holy spirit helps us to do it. and it makes us want to please God - we are free from the bondage of sin, we dont break his commandments
@eclecticderby Law is death when you don't obey it - not when you obey the law . What do you think about the things jesus taught ? if you obeyed Jesus you would keep the commandments not make excuses to break them, He who says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a LIAR and the truth IS NOT IN HIM. True beleivers keep the commandments of God AND have the faith of Jesus. Revelation 12:17 - rev 14:12 . Isaiah 8:20 says : to the LAW and to the TESTIMONY, It's a combination
@eclecticderb The veil is if I think keeping commandments is what saves me - thats what the jews thought back in Jesus time - and some still think that today - they think they can be righteous without faith in Jesus - that is definitely NOT what I beleive - I beleive Jesus DID die for our past sins we did before we repented . We know that hebrews 10:26 says if we sin willfully after receiving the truth there is no more sacrifice for sin. So if that is the case then what you call grace is off.
Like I said, your eyes are veiled by the law. I plead that you turn to grace. Read through yourself the passages I discuss with you, then decide for yourself bout sin and grace and law. Please, I am not here to condemn you, nor to argue, I am here to tell you that under law, you cannot break sin. 'For the strength of sin is the law", and "The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more!" The bible is obvious. :)
@eclectic Yes where sin increased the strong desire to obey God and turn away from sin increased more and more - to the point where the sin was not being committed anymore. The work of God in us IS THE GIFT - he works in us both to will and to do his good pleasure - the strong desire to obey and turn from sin is GRACE - THAT IS THE GIFT FROM GOD. It makes obeying the commandments a joy. For by this we do know that we know him - when we keep his commadments and his commandments are not greivous
@fernieboy100 yes, that is grace! grace is the power to sin no more. Did i say: we have grace, therefore we sin? no. On the contrary, I am telling you the ONLY way NOT TO SIN... is grace. By NOT trying to KEEP THE LAW, you turn to grace, and you have the power to sin no more. If you still insist that the law is needed to be holy then what did jesus die for? if not keeping the law can send you to hell, then Jesus died to be a policeman? You are negating what He has done. This is sad.
@eclecticderby Grace is the gift Of God - where we hate sin and want to do whats good and right - God gives us grace and its a burning desire to obey God in everything we do - I have grace - and it was the gift of God - I am not righteous from my own will power - God gave me grace which makes me want to turn from sin and instead do righteousness - to say I have not found grace is ridiculous - and to say grace means we can keep sinning is way way off too - God hates sin - jesus hates sin
They would never ever tell us to keep sinning because we will simply be forgiven - if that was the case why even go to church or read the bible or make any efforty whatsoever ? God hates sin and wants us to turn away from it - Satan has made the false doctrine that lies and says we are free to continue in sin because we will just keep getting forgiven over and over again but the bible clearly says that is not the case in hebrews 10:26
@fernieboy100 no one tell you to continue sinning. On the contrary, the bible is saying-keep the law, and you made Christ of no effect, the strength of law is sin. we are justified by heaven because of grace and faith in Jesus, not law keeping. The bible is saying - keep the law, and offenses will abound - follow Jesus, the cross, knowing that your sins are forever forgiven will deliver you and empower you to stop sin in its tracks. Read the bible entirely, not a few verses here and there.
@eclecticderby Every scripture is true - its totally true that the people who think they are justified by keeping the law have definitely made Christ of no effect. We do not earn heaven by keeping the commandments. Thats what the verse is about - there are some people that think they can reject jesus and that following the commandments will get them into heaven but its simply not true - however the comandments do have a place in the new testament or they would not be so many verses about them -
@fernieboy100 I want you to have a revelation of grace. A full revelation of grace will empower everyone to stop sin. Read 2 Cor 3 - it says clearly that the law is a veil, that the law is engraved on stones (10 commandments) and that the administration of the spirit - not the LAW - is much more glorious! Until you tear the veil, you cannot see the love of Jesus. I issue you a challenge: I pass you some JP sermons, you listen for yourself, then decide if grace is the truth.
@eclect I have seen the love of Jesus and I have overcome sin - as all true beleivers have - I don't need to make excuses for sin anymore - the commandments are eternal - the bible tells us that ALL the unrighteous will not be going to heaven - that includes those that continue to live in sin. If I live in sin I am not saved . Bleesed are they that do his comandments - that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. You either obey God or u don't
@fernieboy100 you again tkaing verses out of context.
The verse IMMEDATELY AFTER 1 cor 6:9 - "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."
- OUR SINS DO NOT MATTER.
1 john 2: first verse tells you: 'And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world'
@eclecticderby The verse refers to peoples past sins - the beleivers do not commit those sins anymore - thats why it says as such WERE some of you. But they became born again and do not do those things anymore. Isaiah 55:7 says let the wicked man forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts - and let him come to the lord for he will abundantly pardon. The pardon is conditional - forsake our wicked ways and unrighteous thoughts and return to him - THAT is when he abundantly pardons us
Read for yourself, in revelation 21 it started with: "4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." the next verse about lairs etc- is certainly about NON-BELIEVERS, who he will judge in his 2nd coming.
rev 22 :14 is about unbelievers, the whole context before that states that God is with us, the believers. - 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
The Spirit is the Holy Spirit and the bride is the church. We must ask sinners who are not saved to come and drink freely! Whoever desires can drink. not whoever keeps the law may drink. WHOEVER DESIRES.
@eclecti Jesus said unless ye repent ye will ALL likewise perish. Anyone CAN come to the waters of life - which is Gods word and freely drink. Sinners can come to Jesus absolutely - and if they obey him they will repent and stop their wicked ways - that is the overall all message of the entire bible and you have somehow missed it. You literally dont think we have to turn from sin for salvation. Was Jesus lying when he said unless ye repent you will perish ?Obedience is better than sacrifice.
for 1 John 3, look at the john 3:10 - 15. it says about Abel and Cain and their works, in practicing righteousness. But if you actually read Genesis 4:4 ... And the LORD respected Abel and his offering, 5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering...
Abel OFFERED the lamb!! A symbol of Jesus, and God pronounced RIGHTEOUS works. Cain offered works of his own hands: salad from the ground, that's UNRIGHTEOUS works. LOOK TO JESUS! not your law keeping. Offer the lamb like Abel did!
@eclecticderby I do look to jesus - and since jesus said if you love me - keep my commandments then that is what I am going to do. Are you going to ignore what Jesus himself said about the commandments ? I sure hope not because that would put you in the same category as lost unbeleivers - remember even the devils beleive but they do not obey - they know there is a God but it does them no good because they do not obey !!
@eclecticderby You have rebutted nothing at all - you better repent of preaching this false gospel from hell that says obedience is not necessary. God hates sin - Jesus hates sin - why would you delude yourself and think Jesus now okays sin and has no problem with it ??? your way off - you might as well not even talk about the bible if you won't obey it - people that do not obey do not have the holy spirit - maybe thats why you are promoting such a ridiculous and false gospel
you are teaching a mixture of grace and law. It's Schizophrenic Christianity. you are saying: Sometimes God is angry with me, sometimes He is happy with me. Sometimes He blesses me, sometimes He curses me. Sometimes God cares for me, sometimes He leaves me. Today, He forgives all my sins. Tomorrow I am responsible for my sins.
God's forgiveness is not paid in installments!!! if the blood of goats and bulls can bring a year of atonement, how much more the eternal blood of Jesus?
@eclecticderby Grace is what works in us to be able to keep the law - the desire to please God( Grace) increases and increases and as it does the sins fade away - Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil - Jesus was our example - we are to follow his ways - he did not sin - he said go and sin no more !! he would not tell us to do something impossible. He sais be ye holy for I am holy. Jesus wants us to follow the path of righteousness !!!!
How can I be following the path of righteousness if I continue to live in sin ??? thats not following the path of righteousness now is it ??? are you going to tell me that Jesus said - don't worry about sin - you can keep doing it because I payed the price so you are forgiven now and forever more - go and sin because your debt is paid - I did it all - now even people that practice sin regularly have no fears. Don't keep Gods laws in fact break them whenever you want because again - I did it ALL
you know what,I am tired. I extended an invitation to you on private msg, but your heart is shut tight. Well, if the law works for you, then let it be.
All i know is under God's grace, I am empowered to sin NO MORE. I am Greatly Blessed, Highly Favored, Deeply Loved by Jesus. My repentance is simply turning to him and not the law. By Adam's one sin, we are made sinners, by Jesus's one sacrifice, we are free from the curse of the law. All this I say in Jesus's name, amen.
@eclecticderby My heart is not shut tight at all - you have no clue what grace actually is - you think grace is a license to sin and your dead wrong !!!! if you continue to practice sin you will go to hell. Jesus said depart from me you workers of lawlessness - they did not obey Gods laws - if you turn to Jesus then you will obey him - pick up your cross AND FOLLOW HIM - did Jesus sin ? No - Jesus wants us to do the OPPOSITE of sin - we can see how jesus taught righteousness and repentance
@fernieboy100 yes, I will stop my wicked ways, and that's because of his grace, not because I try to keep the law by my own might. Again, you dun understand grace. Peace to you, I pray that you no longer follow the "ministry of death" (law) as the bible calls it. Bye!
@eclecticderby not once have i ever said that we keep the law through our own strength - like i was telling you - you have to figure out the truth by finding the situation where all the verses are true - here is a summary that will give you the idea - remember not one verse can be ignored !!! We repent and turn from sin - when we do that our past sins are forgiven, and we receive Gods mercy and also grace which is makes us want to obey God, we then start a new life - old things are past away
so now we are walking in newness of life and we have the strong desire to obey God - we have faith in Jesus and what he did to forgive us of our past sins. We know that we are not righteous on our own we are well aware that a change has happenned - the work of Gods holy spirit has changed us - now we hate sin and love righteousness - and as a result we will bear good fruit instead of evil fruit and we want to keep his commandments- not because we earn heaven by it but because we actually want to
@fernieboy100 You keep talking about the devil believing. he didn't believe in God. He believe in himself. Belief is accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. The devil didnt. In fact, the devil have no forgiveness of sins because Jesus died for his glorious bride, the church, the humans, not angels and principalities in hell or heaven. When you finally understand that God do not impute your sin, disobedience, lawlessness to you, only then can u be empowered to sin NO MORE. That's grace.
@fernieboy100 Jesus hate sin, but he love sinners. We bankrupt man cannot keep the law. We in and of ourselves CANNOT keep the law. Sin, taking advantage of the law, produce in us all manner of sinning. It's in the bible. (Romans 7) And because the law is so holy, and God must judge sins, he sent his son to die for ALL our sins. Today, we are no longer under the curse of the law, and by his grace, we stop sinning. our forgiveness is paid for, justified in Jesus's work!
@fernieboy100 obedience is NOT needed to gain his favor. Rather we are obedience because when we know we have his favor apart from our works, we cant help but be obedient! obedience is the fruit, not the root. his favor, his love, his forgiveness is the root and the power and the grace to STOP sin. This is the last msg i am sending you, i am tired. You have heard enough. Like the Pharisees, you choose law, unlike the sinners who got healed in the gospels, who broke all laws and still have grace.
@eclecticderby The pharisees did not like what Jesus had to say - but I love what Jesus had to say. So to say I am a pharisee is simply a lie - and we know what happens to liars - all liars go to hell. You dont see the symbology of the people crawling towards jesus and screaming out for help - that is a symbol of repentance - jesus did not follow people down the road - tap them on the shoulder and heal them. I choose faith in Jesus - I know the law does not save me - but I want to obey God .
@fernieboy100 Jesus said "NEITHER DO I CONDEMN YOU, GO AND SIN NO MORE." Until you understand, as Paul wrote: There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION, you cannot go and sin no more. Ok, time to let you go, and think about everything I have said. I have picked apart all your arguments in the bible. All there's left is your own heart - are you for Jesus, or the law. Peace to you. Amen.
@eclecticderby LOL you have picked apart nothing at all - youi think repentance is not necessary - yet john the baptist - Jesus - and all the disciples and prophets preached repentance - stop sin and do righteousness instead - and you are trying to find ways around that - I see it all the time but your heading for hell if you think you do not have to stop sinning - thats a lie from the pit of hell - the counter-fit disobedient churches teach that fake perverted gospel and now you are too
@fernieboy100 here is the revelation you are lacking: you dun NEED to stop sinning, you GET EMPOWERED to stop sinning. hahahahha. You really dun understand!
@eclecticderby 2nd corinthians 7:10 - for godly sorry worketh repentance not to be repented of. Jesus and john the baptist first words to sinners were - repent - which is stop sinning - you dont understand that you have to use your own free will at first to turn from sin - and then you receive the holy spirit - practicing sinners do not get filled with the holy spirit it is given to those that obey acts 5:32
@eclecticder first you say sin does not matter - now you are changing your tune because the bible totally exposes that lie. I say we both need to stop sinning and ALSO get empowered to stop it - you have also changed your meaning of grace - before you said grace and law keeping are not the same thing - you thought they were two different things - now you seem to atleast grasp that grace works in us to keep Gods laws. Before you thought grace meant we dont have to keep Gods laws !!!! admit it
law came by Moses, but grace and truth COMES by Jesus Christ. god see the truth and grace as ONE. No law. They didnt say the law came by Jesus Christ. Grace and law cannot mix. again, the “Schizophrenic Christianity" comes to mind. CHOOSE a side. you are either in grace, or you are in law.
@eclecticderby The verse IMMEDATELY AFTER 1 cor 6:9 - "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."
- OUR SINS DO NOT MATTER.
1 john 2: first verse tells you: 'And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world'
Now look at the above statement that you have made - you said that our sins do NOT matter. I said that grace is the work of God in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure - Grace works obedience in us - and that obedience means keeping Gods laws - its the obedience through faith and grace - it comes from jesus - to say that our sins do not matter is what is schizophrenic - if you are saved you will flee from sin not make excuses for it - cheap grace says sin is okay - thats why you say it
@fernieboy100 I have said everything I can, now if you want to continue in law, in condemnation, it's your choice. =) Just remember this:
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
You will still go to heaven no matter what. Just that in this life you made Christ of no effect in your life. Oh well, peace to you. i wont reply anymore.
@eclecticderby Again - I don't know how many times I have to say this - WE ARE NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW, I never ever said we were justified by the law !!!! That verse has to be true - as all verses have to be true and I have read it many times before and I can see how it all fits together. If you keep the law for the right reasons which is because you love God and have respect for his laws then the law is good. Thinking keeping the law earns heaven is wrong - and I dont think it EARNS heaven.
You can have the faith of Jesus - the faith of Abraham - beleive in what Christ did - receive grace which is strength and conversion by God - turn from sin - and keep the commmandments of God - you can do all of those things - to leave any of them out you would be ignoring parts of the bible. The turning from sin with our own free will - brings us to Gods mercy - then in his mercy he gives us grace to empower us on the new path - then we bear good fruit and keep his commandments.
It is not evil to obey Gods laws - its not legalistic and its not trying to earn heaven. Grace works in us so that we want to and are able to keep Gods laws - I dont know why you keep saying nobody can keep the law - that is a false teaching taught in the counter fit fake christian churches that break the sabbath and follow their own traditions rather than what the bible teaches.If God has changed our hearts and the holy spirit is in us we will be able to keep Gods laws - its not that hard
@fernieboy100 if you insist on saying that repentance means not sinning in the bible, then you are saying that God sinned and then he confessed to stop sinning. Yes, that is what you are saying, since in so many places in the bible, God repented.
It means a change of mind. change from not believing Jesus to turning to him, not the law. That is repentance. the law is too magnified for us to keep, we cannot but sin, and strength of sin is in the law. (1 Cor. 15:56) We live by faith, not law.
@fernieboy100 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4-5.
Have I told you lies so far? nope, everything I said is from the bible, in their full context. Jesus redeemed us form the law, why turn back to the law?
@eclecticderby he redeemed us FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW that falls on anyone that does not keep the law. Our past sins are forgiven and we now walk on a new path and WE SIN NO MORE. With the work of Jesus in our life we overcome sin and the bondage to sin. It's all to the glory of God because it is his spirit that allows us to overcome sin - we dont take the credit for it - its the work of God. A born again beleiver has the holy spirit in them - do you know how powerful the holy spirit is ?
@fernieboy100 Did i say we NEED to keep god's law? i said we cannot keep. We must turn away from the law, so that we can be empowered not to sin. If we sin, the sin is not imputed to us, that is why sinning doesnt matter to our salvation, today and forever. law is the strength of sin, we are redeemed from the law and our old man was crucified with Jesus on the cross, He took our sin away.
@eclecticderby No you need to turn from sin and keep his commandments - but for the right reasons. Obeying Gods laws is evidence of salvation - just like bearing good fruit is evidence of salvation - born again beleivers hate sin - Gods spirit is in them and they see how awful sin actually is and it revolts them - if a person does not have this view of sin its because they are NOT born again. Fake christians that are not born again make up excuses for sin - true beleivers are hard on sin.
@fernieboy100 do you believe when Paul said : "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace."? if you do, then why do you still turn to the law? Do you believe John when he said: "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."? if you do, why do you still turn to the law?
You say believe the whole bible. The verses you quoted for me, i have explained clearly the doctrine of grace.
@fernieboy100 I m glad that I have rebutted all and i mean all your verses by looking at their full context. and you have not a SINGLE time give me any answers on the verses I gave you. The obvious one is that "For we are not under law but under grace." If you insist on keeping the law, then too bad. Christ is of no effects whosoever is under the law.
@fernieboy100 Galatians 3: 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
@fernieboy100 I think Galatians 3 is the verse for you. 1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
@fernieboy100 The law is just and holy. God forbid it be made void. However, it is FULFILLED by Jesus, who redeemed us from the curse of the law, so that we live by the ministry of the spirit, not the ministry of death or condemnation, and Paul says how much will the ministry of spirit be more glorious than the ministry of the law. The bible is very clear, again, you cant stop grace, my verses are true and definite. That is the Loving God you serve, who NEVER impute your sins to you. Embrace it.
@fernieboy100 lol, repentance means God change his mind. after that He did not do what he set out to do. We have to change our minds to turn to Jesus. I said again, stop sinning doesnt matter in our salvation, but its the fruit of our salvation. Our sins are forgiven today and forever.
@fernieboy100 Jesus proclaimed unmistakably that God's law is so perfect and absolute that no one can achieve righteousness. Yet God's grace is so great that we do not have to. By striving to prove how much they deserve God's love, legalists miss the whole point of the gospel, that it is a gift from God to people who don't deserve it. The solution to sin is not to impose an ever stricter code of behavior, or follow the law. It is to know His forgiveness is paid in full and not in installments.
@fernieboy100 YES. :) you are getting in agreement with me now. I m glad you understand that it is Jesus' forgiveness that empowered the woman, and us, to stop sinning.
"know that A MAN IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW BUT BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO-ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED."
@fernieboy100 read for yourself the verses I just posted. If the law can by kept then Jesus died for nothing. We could still go to heaven without Him (by your logic) since in the OT everyone without Jesus could *keep the law*.
"know that A MAN IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW BUT BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. So we put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO-ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED."
@fernieboy100 if you don't think the law earns your entry to heaven, then why keep saying that not keeping the law will send you to hell? it's like saying - the law is not what brings you holiness to heaven, it's Jesus- and then later on, say - oh you dun keep the law, you go to hell. It's again the “schizophrenic Christianity". You either earn your place in heaven by Jesus or by law. no combination. the just shall live by faith, and the law is NOT of faith. its in the bible. It's clear.
@fernieboy100 the verses about the law clearly tells you that the law is not be kept. The commandments are not to be kept. The context of the verses divide the word. The OT is done away, the new has come. The ministry of death is passed away, the new ministry of the spirit is much more glorious. Sin is stopped not by law, but grace. law will never stop sin. It is the strength of sin. We must know sin and law have no curse on us because our salvation is not justified by the law.
He isn't referring to pastor prince, because pastor prince never said something like that (:
tattyteddymelanie 1 week ago
Pastor Joseph Prince rock!
violinist881 3 months ago
WDF , THIS IS NOT PASTOR KONG'S VOICE , IDIOT. -.-
HE'S VOICE IS NOT LIDDAT DEH LA HORH , ACT ONE ONLY -.-
Ahqirlzxc 5 months ago
Sigh... I really dislike this. Anyway fast forward 2 years later, the full-time staff in his church are actually listening and receiving to the very same pastor this guy preached against.
Thank God, and really Pastor Khong Hee gave more air time to that pastor and PREACHED the gospel for that very pastor.
People who are broken.
People who are desolate.
...are hearing of a grace that demands nothing but gives EVERYTHING.
seemymood 6 months ago 2
Comment removed
marcuzwong 8 months ago
sounds fake
whatever1lah 9 months ago
Eclectic derby..you explained everything just as it should be understood. Too many Preachers pervert this story of the rich young ruler to mean that you must keep the commandments and sell all you have. Jesus was trying to show him that if HE wants to do it himself,, earn his own way, then he wold have to live a PERFECT LIFE from the dayhe was born to the day he died. THAT, of course is an impossibility. tO try to work your way to Heaven is saying that Jesus did not do enough.
genevaconference 10 months ago
@genevaconference Thanks! after that verse, Jesus said (Mark 10:23) It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God!
His discples asked, How can anyone go to heaven?
Jesus provided the answer: "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God."
When we are in Christ Jesus, ALL THINGS are possible! Our salvation is possible not becuase of our good works but because of Jesus's work on the cross!
eclecticderby 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Galatians 2:16
"know that A MAN IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW BUT BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO-ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED."
eclecticderby 10 months ago
what sort of sermon is this, criticising other preachers? I thought a sermon should always speak of Jesus and the Word, the Bread of Life. I never knew Jesus to speak like this. O dear, who is a "cheap grace speaker" now?
emommy2010 11 months ago
One word to u people.. Childish..
How OLD ARE YOU ???
Why waste your time doing all this!
kenboi95 11 months ago
Hahah! He spends most his sermon, time, energy hitting on what he calls "cheap" grace preachers.. Pathetic! He doesnt know he looks like one already. tsk! Joseph Prince is cool! Forget about this pathetic guy! He is one of brood of vipers Jesus talk about in the Bible. A hypocrite!
dinxpassion 11 months ago
grace reigns forever.
zeforce09 11 months ago
It's called envy and jealousy! What happened to love one another and taking the shaft out of your eye? How do we know what you preach is right? Through Grace you are more apt to keep the Law which is written in your heart and through the Holy Spirit you are prompt to keep the Law and stay on the Narrow Path. I pray God will give Pastor Kong revelation on this matter of Grace and its intention.
nasgalii 11 months ago
It's not CHEAP grace! It required God's sacrifice! Frankly I went to visit City Harvest way earlier before I visited New Creation but I was not touched by God at the service. But when I went to New Creation, I was touched and brought lots of people there ever since. However, I believe God has a purpose for having so many different types of churches. DIfferent churches for people's different needs. God loves us all!
ericbenlim 11 months ago
Went all the way to a faraway land to put down another pastor. Happened in 2004, when he was already a well known church leader/preacher in Singapore for more than a decade then. Only to reveal his true state of heart and mind, how sad. Forgive him as GOD for Christ sake has forgiven us.
sozmooth 1 year ago
who is god lol why this people talk when there is no god who and what is name can gong hee ans or i dont no is gong or kong
jai7231032 1 year ago
huh..... bad respon...
mariomarcellojosua 1 year ago
A wreath of thorns became Yr crown.My curse was laid upon Yr brow. Yr wounds displayed for all to see.Yr body torn to rescue me.My sins You're faithful to forget. B'cos Yr love n justice met.There at the cross upon that hill. Lord,U fulfilled the Father's will.My stain of sin,Yr Blood erased.My life redeemed,Lord by Yr Grace. Healed n restored in Yr embrace.Now all i see is Yr lovely face.Righteous n bold i come to U.Solely b'cos U gave.Yr life for mine upon that cross.Love made U take my place.
princesscog 1 year ago
Comment removed
princesscog 1 year ago
He who says " I know him " and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him 1 john 2:4. also see 1 corinthians 6:9 , galatians 5:19 and revelation 21:8 and rev 22 :14. also if you really want to get down to it then read 1 john chapter 3 - that will totally show how your wrong to think sin is no big deal and we just keep getting forgiven all the time - read hebrews 10: 26 if you think you will keep getting forgiven for sinning when you already know its wrong.
fernieboy100 1 year ago
@fernieboy100
The woman caught in adultery? Jesus said: "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." He didnt say: "go and stop sinning, and i will forgive you." WE GOT IT UPSIDE DOWN! The church today just keep saying: follow the law which will make you holy. You know wat the bible says?
Galatians 3: read the whole context.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:...
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us!
We are not under law!
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Your only fooling yourself. In hebrews 5:9 it says he became the eternal author of salvation to all those that obey him. Jesus also said think not that I came to abolish the law or the prophets- I came not to abolish but to fulfill. He said if you love me - keep my commandmants. And this is how we know him - that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not greivous. Why call me lord lord and do not do the things I say to do ? keeping commandments is evidence of salvation
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 The word 'obey' in Greek in that passage is, guess what, BELIEVE. So, he became the eternal author of salvation to all those that BELIEVE him.
a word of advice: if you debt is fulfilled, do NOT go back to the bank to pay up more. If the law is FULFILLED, it is FULFILLED. Romans 6:14, "You are not under law but under grace." The Bible is so clear, it takes idiotic, self righteous idiots to confuse us. Jesus healed all. Forgave all. Only the pharisees did not receive his grace.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Jesus says " depart from me you workers of law lessness - they would not follow his laws. I realize that salvation is a gift and we dont earn heaven by keeping the law - but trampling on his laws can land a person in hell - 1 corinthians 6:9 - all the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus gave you no free license to sin - all scripture is true - it does not contradict itself. Name calling is an evil fruit and you are bearing it - maybe you need to repent.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
You must rightly divide the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15). When Jesus said those words in your comment, he was saying before He died for our sins, when the Law is still valid. We must DIVIDE the word and know that today we are not under the law.
Anyway, the context of the statement is not about the law, its about 'the will of the father (Matthew 7:21)' which is for the world to be saved by faith in Jesus. I hate how you take verses out of context and then says it's true.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
1 corinthians 6:9 - All righteousness is a gift to us, the believers. Unrighteous people are people who are not saved! Again, you are taking your verses out of context. Since you like out of context verses so much, in the old testament it says 'circumcision is an everlasting covenant' - are you circumcised?
Titus 2:11-12: For the GRACE of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, TEACHING us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lust... Grace TEACHES us to be holy.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 stop ignoring the complete doctrine that Paul, under the holy spirit, taught. Every single verses you quoted are out of context. Sin shall have NO DOMINION over you for you are not under law, but under grace. The strength of sin is the law. Even paul himself said, before the law, he was once ALIVE. The law is holy - so holy that humans can never keep them. it's fundamental we understand that our own righteousness will never be enough, only Jesus can keep the law. He died for us.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby romans 3:31 - do we make void the law through faith ? GOD FORBID - yea we ESTABLISH THE LAW. This verse states clear as day that we do not make void the law - in fact we stablish the law. Beleive it or not you can have faith in Jesus - receive his mercy and grace - AND keep Gods laws too - I know this might be suprising because most churches don't teach it.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
this means the law had glory, but the SPIRIT has more glory! Law is passed away!
Then in the next verse, paul says the law is a veil! =)
eclecticderby 10 months ago
You're convincing yourself but you're definitely not convincing me- i have read enough verses about commandments to know that true beleivers keep the commandments. I understand what grace is - the work of God to both will and do his good pleasure. I know the faith of abraham - beleiving Gods word and everything God says -- I am well aware of that - your preaching to the choir. I know jesus forgives my past sins if i repent of them. Jesus was not kidding when he said go and sin no more
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 you got it right by saying that believers hate sin. I hate sin. My gripe with you is the “schizophrenic Christianity" that you advocate.
Let it be known, God and Jesus hate sin, but sin does not matter in our salvation, because God love sinners, and He judge all our sins today and forever on the cross. Sin have no dominion over us as we are under grace. Where sin abound, grace much more abound. Believers hate sin not because of the law, but because of grace. It's a fruit of grace.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Remember what I said about how all the verses have to be true ? thats how you know you are preaching the truth - when what you are saying agrees with every single thing in the bible - the verses about grace have to fit - the verses about jesus sacrifice have to fit - the verses about faith and works have to fit and the verses about the commandments have to fit too. You can't ignore any of the verses but you have to find the truth that lines up with all the scriptures
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 yes, you are right. So now, we know that law is to bring us to know that we are sinful. Now that we know, do we still turn back to the law, which the verses I placed says clearly that we are no longer under the law? The law is just, but it cannot justify. The law is holy but it cannot sanctify us. The law is good, but it produces curse on us and sin abounded. we under grace, will sin no more, because our sins are forgiven forever, we love God MORE and sin is stopped.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 breaking the law, sinning, will not stop you from heaven. knowing that all your sins are forgiven empowers you to stop sinning. If we turn to grace, like Paul has been saying in his letters, you will see results. That's why Pastor Prince church is so blessed! it's all god's grace. With this mentality, we wont be scolding church members and condemning them. Many left church because they are condemn, and they continue to sin. Many break free from sin when they learn of forgiveness.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby breaking the law and sinning WILL stop you from going to heaven. Remember you can't ignore any verses - every single verse has to fit - thats how you know you have found the truth. I realize there are many churches that never talk about repentance - but we have to make sure we are preaching what the bible says - not just some comfy politically correct version that fills our churches and nets us a handsome profit - the mega churches in the usa never preach repentance - its wrong
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 in Acts, the disciples preached grace, forgiveness of sins. nowhere did they preach the law. Paul even announce a double curse in (Galatians 1:6-10) to whichever angel of heaven did not preach the GRACE of CHRIST. Not the LAW of Moses. You said the disciples preached law, and that wat i am saying is of hell? nonsense. dun be hoodwinked by the devil. I have shown you scripture after scripture. in acts 2:14-36, look at what peter preached. NO LAW. only about Jesus saving.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@ Yes that verse is very true as all verses in the bible are true. Now read before in verse 5 it says jesus gave himself for our sins that might DELIVER US FROM THIS PRESENT EVIL WORLD The power of Jesus delivers us from the power of evil !!! and then in verse 10 he talks about how his gospel is not pleasing to men but that its from God. He says IF his gospel was pleasing to men he would NOT be the servant of Christ - Cheap grace appeals to men, to the masses - and it doesn't deliver from evil
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 His grace delivers us from sins.AMEN! this is what we should preach- that his grace remove our sins forever, and deliver us from evil. We just need to rest in Christ, and knowing that we are not condemned, sins have no dominion over us. NOWHERE did it says : "Jesus gave himself for our sins that might DELIVER US FROM THIS PRESENT EVIL WORLD, but sorry , now please the law. "
your focus should be Jesus giving his life for us for our sins, thus we are delivered forever. not the law.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 we are obeying the ministry of the spirit. The holy spirit governs us. 2 Corinthians: Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory...
This means that the law HAVE GLORY. The law had glory. but it is passing away:
2 Cor 3: 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby The holy spirit always lines up with the word of God - if " the holy spirit " is not saying the exact same thing as the bible then its NOT the holy spirit. People that do not obey do NOT have the holy spirit even if they THINK they do. acts 5:32 says the holy spirit is given to those that obey - so what are they obeying ? you keep sidestepping the verses about the commandments - you can embrace grace - faith - and keeping the commandments which is obedience - all of them
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 give u a tip: stop worrying about what to obey what not to obey. Just ask God, the holy spirit will tell you. We are no longer looking at the law. The ministry of the spirit is our leading force.
Matthew 11:28-30 : message bible:
28-30"Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 so i really hope u undgerstand what i have been tellin you. =) good night buddy, its been a great debate, ultimately, it's fruitful, though it's not really nice that 2 brothers in Christ are arguing in public domain. Let's take this debate out on our private msgs - what says you?
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
We obey what he said he came for. did he not said that the son of man will take all our sins and suffer on the cross? did not all the disciples affirm the stand that our sins are all forgiven? Obey in many places in the NT in greek is "believe". The just shall live by faith. The law is not of faith.
You have to understand that the words jesus said in OLD COVENANT, eg. take up the cross, is fulfilled by his death and new covenant- our old man are crucified with Him, says paul.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 I give a very good example of how to understand the words jesus spoke before he died for our sins. In the Road to Emmaus, Jesus told His 2 disciples, : "And beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning HIMSELF."
throughout the bible, we should look for Jesus. Did Jesus expound them on the law? no. The old covenant is the new covenant concealed. The NT revealed the doctrine. Look at the full picture.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 The bible is written for us, but not all written TO us. Rightly divide the word. EG. Mk.10:17-22 the rich ruler asked, “Good teacher (Rabbi) what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? He recognizes that he does not have eternal life, who better to ask then Jesus. What must I do to have it. He has a works related idea for salvation. So jesus gave him the law, to put him to the end of himself.He knew that this man was looking for a way to earn his salvation on his own terms.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 So from the rich young ruler story, many thought that the 10 commandments are needed for eternal life. It is of cos not true. If whatever jesus said we must do to go to heaven, then not a SINGLE one of us have carried the cross. Have you? what about you sell your computer now, because having a computer to comment on youtube means that you have not sell ALL your possessions to help the poor. So when you boasted that you can keep all the law, honestly, you didnt by jesus standard.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 In Luke 18: the rich ruler left sorrowful, for he was very rich, and the laws he cannot keep. No one can. In luke 19, Jesus come to Zacchaeus’ House WITH NO LAWS GIVEN. jesus simply gave grace by dining with him. the people complained that Jesus is dining with SINNERS.
And this grace given, the result is that Zacchaeus pledge to give his possessions away. NO LAW given. That is what i am saying - the law wont change a person,only jesus' grace can. You have to look beyond the law.
eclecticderby 10 months ago 2
@eclecticderby The women caught in adultery was about to be stoned under mosaic law - Jesus stopped that stoning - the ten commandments are eternal - we do not earn heaven by keeping commandments - we keep the commandments once we are born again because we want to obey God. People that constantly break the commandments are not saved. repent means to stop sinning and turn away from sin. You are not forgiven if you keep doing it - if you keep doing it you obviously are not sorry about it !!!!!
fernieboy100 10 months ago
In revelation 12:17 it says that the dragon was wroth with the women and went to make war with the remnant of her seed - WHO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND HAVE THE FAITH OF JESUS. Satan is furious with this group that keeps the commandments and also has the faith of Jesus - having both these things is what makes him wroth !!! to the law and to the testimony - if anyone speaks not according to these two things there is no light in them. Jesus tells the lawless to depart from him on judgement
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. John 1:17
the word 'came' in greek word is 'COMES'. Meaning: grace AND truth COMES by Jesus Christ. This means God sees GRACE AND TRUTH as one and the same! The truth is not the law, that came by moses - the truth is grace by Jesus!
you cannot keep the law and then says you are under grace.
"And the law is not of faith: but, The man that does them shall live in them." Galatians 3:12
LAW NOT OF FAITH.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby lol Grace is the work of god to both will and to do of his good pleasure - If you have faith you will keep the law. If you beleive you will obey. If you obey you will receive the holy spirit acts 5:32 don't obey - no holy spirit
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 Grace and law is NOT THE Same thing. They cannot mix. Law is not of faith. I told you b4, and i m not changing my stand. your lack of understanding is putting words in my mouth. The law cannot be kept by us. Grace and truth COMES by Jesus, law came by Moses. We are no longer under The law of moses. Turning back is giving sin its strength.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby the verses about grace are true the verses about the law are true - all verses in the bible are true. Who told you that the law cannot be kept by us ? things that are impossible with men ARE possible with God. Where in the bible does it say we cannot keep the law ? if you can't show me then I will ask you to never EVER say something like that again. We know that we know God when we KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT GREIVOUS.. IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS !
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 The lady with the blood condition broke many laws to touch Jesus. Jesus said "your faith made you well." The lady caught in adultery? Jesus said "neither do I condemn you, GO and sin no more." The NO Condemnation is first, then the power to sin no more. We want to break your sins? Understand first that God do not impute your sins, He remembers your sins no more, only then can we be empowered to stop sinning. There is therefore now NO condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Thats right Jesus did not condemn the women for her past sins - she was forgiven for her past sins and at that point jesus said go and sin no more. That story truly captured what salvation is about - being forgiven for our past and going forward and sinning no more - if anyone be in christ he is a new creature behold old things are past away - all things are become new. repeat OLD THINGS ARE PAST AWAY - and those old things are forgiven - but they are not to be continued
fernieboy100 10 months ago
it would not make any sense to say old things are passed away and then just keep doing them - all the verses about grace are true - all the verses about faith are true - all the verses about the commandments are true - all the verses about repenting are true - all the things jesus said are true - they all have to be true if you want to rightfully divide the word of God like you say you want to. You can't ignore the commandments verses - or any verse for that matter-
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 Exactly. Our sins are forever forgiven. in the new covenant, God say that He will remember our sins NO MORE. In the greek, never ever remember our sins. Why is that so? because Jesus died for our sins. Because of adam, we became sinners. now, because of Jesus, we are righteous. because we are made righteous, we sin no more. again, sinning doesnt not affect our salvation, it is the RESULT of Jesus freely giving us righteousness. The letter (law) kills, but the spirit gives life.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@ecle Thats right our past sins will be remembered no more - but again hebrews 10:26 says if we willfully sin after we have recieved knowledge of the truth there is no more sacrifice for sin. So lets make sure we do not sin after we know the truth because if we do there is no more sacrifice for sin. If you are made righteous then you won't keep sinning will you ? I think you are taking sin way too lightly - it is not "legalist" to obey God - that word is not even in the bible - its a buzz word
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 Romans 3:20-23, 28
"Therefore NO-ONE will be declared righteous in his (God's) sight by the works of the law; rather through the law we become conscious of sin. NOW the righteousness from God, apart from the law has been made known... THIS RIGHTEOUSNESS FROM GOD COMES THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST TO ALL WHO BELIEVE... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and ARE JUSTIFIED FREELY BY HIS GRACE THROUGH THE REDEMPTION THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Thats right - keeping the law does not declare we are righteous -
fernieboy100 10 months ago
HE WHO SAYS " I KNOW HIM " AND KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 AMEN! we practice sin no more. Next time when you look to God, and you know even when you fail ourGod still says it's ok, I will still forgive and loves you, you will be empowered to sin no more. No point telling people to keep the law because the power of stopping sin is not in the law - its the grace of God. That's my whole point. And that's what paul has been saying all along.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 where did it says Law will condemn us to hell? In the old covenant. After Jesus died we are in the new covenant. Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Because of what Jesus did, God must honor his work - which is taking away ALL our sins, forever. That's why in the greek, God says he will NEVER EVER remember our sins. We need to believe Jesus in the new covenant.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 that's why instead of telling people - you shall not do this and that (the law), tell people - COME back because God has forgiven all your sins, past parent and future. Turn back to God because he is your Father. That's the power to break sin. The holiness is the result of knowing that no sins can bring us to hell. That when we sine, we look back to jesus - the right direction- and he will help us. Look, the father bought out a LAMB for the prodigal son in the story - that's Jsus!
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 do you preach the forgiveness of sins as paul did? Paul pronoun a curse on those who do not preach grace:
(Galatians 1:6-10) 6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the GRACE OF CHRIST unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
why would Jesus stopped the stoning? isn't it valid that she be stoned? REPENT in the greek means : to change your mind. Not the religious "repent" you talking about, about stop sinning - WE HAVE BEEN DEAD TO SIN.
Adam cause the world to be sinners. Before we were saved, we cannot be saved by doing good deeds, we can only be saved by believing Jesus. now on the same token, Jesus made all believers righteous, no bad deeds can take away this salvation.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby you're promoting a false gospel that lacks obedience- all the unrighteous do not inherit the kingdom of God - even people that think they are saved - if they live in sin and are unrihhteous they too will miss out. The devil beleives in God - just passively believing in God will not save you. You have to turn from sin - if you change your mind then you would stop doing it - your gospel makes excuses for sin - Jesus gospel is according to holiness - all scripture makes sense -
fernieboy100 10 months ago
That's how we rightfully divide the word of God - we know that ALL of the verses have to be true. I have not taken a thing out of context - you say no bad deeds can take away salvation ? jesus said unless ye repent you will all likewise perish !! That is turning away of our wicked ways - why do so many people think they can hold onto sin and have salvation at the same time !!!- its simply not true. It's a false doctrine from hell. If you are truly born again sin will have no dominion over you.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
Jesus said he is the true vine, we are the branches. Those who do not bear fruits he takes away. The greek word actually means : lift up, meaning when we dun not bear fruits, Jesus lift us up so that we bear fruits. This is the true grace of God, until u understand grace YOU CAN NEVER BREAK SIN.
Easy to understand: "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace" (Romans 6:14). " Under law, YOU SIN.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby keeping the commandments does not earn heaven - but breaking them can land you in hell. The law is for those that are unrighteous - if You follow the spirit you will keep Gods laws, If you think you can keep sinning and have salvation too your only fooling yourself - I realize we are under grace - but people that think grace is a ticket to sin are dead wrong. we have seen verses that say keep the commandments and also that sin will have no dominion over you
fernieboy100 10 months ago
if a person is dominated by sin and they break his commandments guess what ? they are not saved. They have not repented and turned away from sin. All through the bible we can see the message about turning from sin - now to say we dont have to turn from sin and just beleive is absolutely ridiculous - if you truly beleive the gospel then you will also have the fear of God in your life. We have free will to sin or not - we have to turn away from sin - then God has mercy on us and changes us.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
quote me any verse that says that keeping the law gives dominion over sins.
Romans 6:14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace."
1 Cor 15:56 "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law."
Romans 8:1 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus”.
hebrews 9:12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Faith in Jesus is what overcomes sin. I can do all things through Christ. Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world. Jesus sets the captive free - free from what ? FREE FROM BONDAGE TO SIN. Faith in Jesus is the only way we can overcome the world !!! things that are not possible with men ( like keeping the law) are possible with God. Now suddenly people CAN keep the law because the holy spirit is in them - when you turn from sin - Jesus gives you strength !! Amen
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 where did I say that grace is license to sin? please, quote me if I said that, don't put words in my mouth. Jesus said those words to his disciples, and the pharisees. That was also BEFORE he died for our sins. indeed, for those who want the law, they shall live by the law. none of the healed sinners obeyed the law, but Jesus healed them all. He didnt say :your law-keeping, good deeds made you well. he said your FAITH made you well. Law is not of faith (Galatians 3:12)
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 All i want to say is this: you want to obey God, then turn to grace, let his spirit minister to you. Dun try by your might to keep the law which curse he has died for us to be delivered from. Grace is not disobeying God, grace is turnign to him, andk nowing his love changes you. That your salvation iseternal. The security in his arms will help you to sin no more, and before you know it, you are keeping the 10 commandments, without trying. Good day.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby that is what i have been saying the entire time - so now you ARE saying that grace is Gods work in us that helps us keep the ten commandments effortlessly - well thats good because that is what grace is - you can never think sin is no big deal - sin is a huge deal !! I have never doubted grace or what Jesus did on the cross - I have only said that sin DOES matter - and CAN be overcome - through grace -and if we are saved- grace we will help us keep the commandments !!!
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 repent is turning to Jesus, repentance is not your idea of NOT SINNING. Yes NOT SINNING is good, it's important, but it is the result of grace, not the result of trying by our own might to keep the law. You said I didnt pick apart all your verses but i did one by one. my verses, such as "For we are NOT under law but under grace" and "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." are certainly good and true.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby In Isaiah 55:7 God tells people to turn from their wicked ways and unrighteous thoughts. You seem to think you can change your mind but continue to do it - you are having a problem with turning from sin. It's true we are not under law - we ARE under grace BUT we still keeps the law as romans 3:31 clearly states. We stablish the law it says - god forbid we make the law void.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon. - Isaiah 55:7
Obviously talking about non-believers, when they forsake their ways, and their thoughts, and TURN to the LORD, WHO FREELY pardon. Freely.
SIN doesnt matter in your salvation. Not sinning is important but its not the root. That's has been my stand all along. Dun put words in my mouth.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby yes but you can see how they have already turned from their evil ways and unrighteous thoughts before he pardons them. That is turning from sin - repenting
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 Righteousness is a GIFT to all who believe. Read your bible. Jesus is obviously talking about non-believers. I quoted the Bible on numerous occasions, showing you the consistent gospel of grace. however, you just keep saying that grace is license to sin. NO. Grace teaches you to be holy. Without Jesus, without grace, you can do NOTHING.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Jesus loves righteousness and obedience - what do you think about obedience ? don't you think truly beleiving and obeying go hand in hand ? you think its impossible to keep the commandments ? which one is impossible to keep ? you get all bent out of shape when i talk about the commandments - do you think Gods laws are bad ? no killing no stealing no lying no adultery - where is the big problem here ? Born again people are happy to keep Gods laws - they dont mind one bit
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
Romans 5:17
For if, by the trespass of the one man [Adam], death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.
10th commandment: you shall not covert. you cannot even get angry, lest you have committed murder in your mind. that's why no one can keep the law except Jesus who died for us. To say u can keep the law means you dun need Jesus.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclect Where do you come up with this stuff ? If you are born again you will hate sin - born again people have no desire to break commandments - thats what grace is - it is obeying Gods laws because we truly want to - its not like he is twisting our arm to do it lol. It is God that works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. When you have a strong dislike for any and all sin and have a strong desire to obey God - that is the work of God in you - giving you grace - more and more
fernieboy100 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@fernieboy100
The woman caught in adultery? Jesus said: "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." He didnt say: "go and stop sinning, and i will forgive you." WE GOT IT UPSIDE DOWN! The church today just keep saying: follow the law which will make you holy. You know wat the bible says?
Galatians 3: read the whole context.
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:...
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us!
We are not under law!
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
I am going to leave you with one last verse: 2 Cor: 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. --- THE VEIL is the law.
This passage also states that the 10 COMMANDMENTS is the ministry of death (engraved and written on stones). I can understand why you cant see grace because you are VEILED by the law.
17: Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. - NOT LAW, spirit will set you free and tear your VEIL!!!
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby You dont understand - if you break the commandments its death - if you obey them its life. Does a law punish those that obey it ? no it punishes the ones that disobey it. Jesus said think not that I came to abolish the law, and he also said not one jot or tittle shall disappear from the law till all things be fulfilled - have ALL things been fulfilled ? no they have not. The law is still there and its to be obeyed
fernieboy100 10 months ago
All scripture is true - 1 john 2:4 says he who says " I know him" and keeps not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. Anyone that knows God knows how serious he takes obedience. Jesus said if you love me - keep my commandments. also it says and by this we do know that we know him - when he keep his commandments and his commandments are not greivous. revelation 12;17 plainly tells us the devil is angry with those that keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 2 cor is obviously talking about a letter by Paul (1 cor) which upset them because they did not turn to Jesus. They were sinning. But they turned to Jesus for salvation: "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret."
the greek word in the bible for repentance is not your idea of not sinning. God Himself repented. "And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." (exodus 32:14) God didn't sin, but he repent= change of mind.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby That is exactly right - God repented - God repented of what he was going to do that is correct - he turned away from what he was going to do and stopped what he was going to do. Your starting to get this. repent means to turn away and stop your old wicked hell bound ways and not make excuses for it or think you can live in willful sin and still get into heaven. We have faith - we have grace - and because grace makes us want to obey God - we also keep his commandments - amen
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@eclecticderby there are some who think keeping the ten commandments is what saves us - that is not true - what I am saying is that keeping the commandments is evidence of salvation - and not keeping them is evidence a personj is not saved - keeping the commandments is just our expected duty. - if we are truly born again we can keep the law because the holy spirit helps us to do it. and it makes us want to please God - we are free from the bondage of sin, we dont break his commandments
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Law is death when you don't obey it - not when you obey the law . What do you think about the things jesus taught ? if you obeyed Jesus you would keep the commandments not make excuses to break them, He who says I know him and keeps not his commandments is a LIAR and the truth IS NOT IN HIM. True beleivers keep the commandments of God AND have the faith of Jesus. Revelation 12:17 - rev 14:12 . Isaiah 8:20 says : to the LAW and to the TESTIMONY, It's a combination
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@eclecticderb The veil is if I think keeping commandments is what saves me - thats what the jews thought back in Jesus time - and some still think that today - they think they can be righteous without faith in Jesus - that is definitely NOT what I beleive - I beleive Jesus DID die for our past sins we did before we repented . We know that hebrews 10:26 says if we sin willfully after receiving the truth there is no more sacrifice for sin. So if that is the case then what you call grace is off.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
Like I said, your eyes are veiled by the law. I plead that you turn to grace. Read through yourself the passages I discuss with you, then decide for yourself bout sin and grace and law. Please, I am not here to condemn you, nor to argue, I am here to tell you that under law, you cannot break sin. 'For the strength of sin is the law", and "The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more!" The bible is obvious. :)
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclectic Yes where sin increased the strong desire to obey God and turn away from sin increased more and more - to the point where the sin was not being committed anymore. The work of God in us IS THE GIFT - he works in us both to will and to do his good pleasure - the strong desire to obey and turn from sin is GRACE - THAT IS THE GIFT FROM GOD. It makes obeying the commandments a joy. For by this we do know that we know him - when we keep his commadments and his commandments are not greivous
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 yes, that is grace! grace is the power to sin no more. Did i say: we have grace, therefore we sin? no. On the contrary, I am telling you the ONLY way NOT TO SIN... is grace. By NOT trying to KEEP THE LAW, you turn to grace, and you have the power to sin no more. If you still insist that the law is needed to be holy then what did jesus die for? if not keeping the law can send you to hell, then Jesus died to be a policeman? You are negating what He has done. This is sad.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Grace is the gift Of God - where we hate sin and want to do whats good and right - God gives us grace and its a burning desire to obey God in everything we do - I have grace - and it was the gift of God - I am not righteous from my own will power - God gave me grace which makes me want to turn from sin and instead do righteousness - to say I have not found grace is ridiculous - and to say grace means we can keep sinning is way way off too - God hates sin - jesus hates sin
fernieboy100 10 months ago
They would never ever tell us to keep sinning because we will simply be forgiven - if that was the case why even go to church or read the bible or make any efforty whatsoever ? God hates sin and wants us to turn away from it - Satan has made the false doctrine that lies and says we are free to continue in sin because we will just keep getting forgiven over and over again but the bible clearly says that is not the case in hebrews 10:26
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 no one tell you to continue sinning. On the contrary, the bible is saying-keep the law, and you made Christ of no effect, the strength of law is sin. we are justified by heaven because of grace and faith in Jesus, not law keeping. The bible is saying - keep the law, and offenses will abound - follow Jesus, the cross, knowing that your sins are forever forgiven will deliver you and empower you to stop sin in its tracks. Read the bible entirely, not a few verses here and there.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Every scripture is true - its totally true that the people who think they are justified by keeping the law have definitely made Christ of no effect. We do not earn heaven by keeping the commandments. Thats what the verse is about - there are some people that think they can reject jesus and that following the commandments will get them into heaven but its simply not true - however the comandments do have a place in the new testament or they would not be so many verses about them -
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 I want you to have a revelation of grace. A full revelation of grace will empower everyone to stop sin. Read 2 Cor 3 - it says clearly that the law is a veil, that the law is engraved on stones (10 commandments) and that the administration of the spirit - not the LAW - is much more glorious! Until you tear the veil, you cannot see the love of Jesus. I issue you a challenge: I pass you some JP sermons, you listen for yourself, then decide if grace is the truth.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclect I have seen the love of Jesus and I have overcome sin - as all true beleivers have - I don't need to make excuses for sin anymore - the commandments are eternal - the bible tells us that ALL the unrighteous will not be going to heaven - that includes those that continue to live in sin. If I live in sin I am not saved . Bleesed are they that do his comandments - that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. You either obey God or u don't
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 you again tkaing verses out of context.
The verse IMMEDATELY AFTER 1 cor 6:9 - "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."
- OUR SINS DO NOT MATTER.
1 john 2: first verse tells you: 'And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world'
AGAIN I SAY TO YOU:
- OUR SINS DO NOT MATTER.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby The verse refers to peoples past sins - the beleivers do not commit those sins anymore - thats why it says as such WERE some of you. But they became born again and do not do those things anymore. Isaiah 55:7 says let the wicked man forsake his way and the unrighteous man his thoughts - and let him come to the lord for he will abundantly pardon. The pardon is conditional - forsake our wicked ways and unrighteous thoughts and return to him - THAT is when he abundantly pardons us
fernieboy100 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@fernieboy100
Read for yourself, in revelation 21 it started with: "4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." the next verse about lairs etc- is certainly about NON-BELIEVERS, who he will judge in his 2nd coming.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
rev 22 :14 is about unbelievers, the whole context before that states that God is with us, the believers. - 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.
The Spirit is the Holy Spirit and the bride is the church. We must ask sinners who are not saved to come and drink freely! Whoever desires can drink. not whoever keeps the law may drink. WHOEVER DESIRES.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecti Jesus said unless ye repent ye will ALL likewise perish. Anyone CAN come to the waters of life - which is Gods word and freely drink. Sinners can come to Jesus absolutely - and if they obey him they will repent and stop their wicked ways - that is the overall all message of the entire bible and you have somehow missed it. You literally dont think we have to turn from sin for salvation. Was Jesus lying when he said unless ye repent you will perish ?Obedience is better than sacrifice.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
for 1 John 3, look at the john 3:10 - 15. it says about Abel and Cain and their works, in practicing righteousness. But if you actually read Genesis 4:4 ... And the LORD respected Abel and his offering, 5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering...
Abel OFFERED the lamb!! A symbol of Jesus, and God pronounced RIGHTEOUS works. Cain offered works of his own hands: salad from the ground, that's UNRIGHTEOUS works. LOOK TO JESUS! not your law keeping. Offer the lamb like Abel did!
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby I do look to jesus - and since jesus said if you love me - keep my commandments then that is what I am going to do. Are you going to ignore what Jesus himself said about the commandments ? I sure hope not because that would put you in the same category as lost unbeleivers - remember even the devils beleive but they do not obey - they know there is a God but it does them no good because they do not obey !!
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
lastly, In hebrews 10:39 -But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
John was talking about the old covenant in hebrews10:26. In the new covenant, we who believe has saving of the soul.
hebrews 10- 14: For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
we are FOREVER sanctified by Jesus.
I have rebutted all your verses, see for yourself if what i quoted are from the bible. thanks. :)
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby You have rebutted nothing at all - you better repent of preaching this false gospel from hell that says obedience is not necessary. God hates sin - Jesus hates sin - why would you delude yourself and think Jesus now okays sin and has no problem with it ??? your way off - you might as well not even talk about the bible if you won't obey it - people that do not obey do not have the holy spirit - maybe thats why you are promoting such a ridiculous and false gospel
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
you are teaching a mixture of grace and law. It's Schizophrenic Christianity. you are saying: Sometimes God is angry with me, sometimes He is happy with me. Sometimes He blesses me, sometimes He curses me. Sometimes God cares for me, sometimes He leaves me. Today, He forgives all my sins. Tomorrow I am responsible for my sins.
God's forgiveness is not paid in installments!!! if the blood of goats and bulls can bring a year of atonement, how much more the eternal blood of Jesus?
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Grace is what works in us to be able to keep the law - the desire to please God( Grace) increases and increases and as it does the sins fade away - Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil - Jesus was our example - we are to follow his ways - he did not sin - he said go and sin no more !! he would not tell us to do something impossible. He sais be ye holy for I am holy. Jesus wants us to follow the path of righteousness !!!!
fernieboy100 10 months ago
How can I be following the path of righteousness if I continue to live in sin ??? thats not following the path of righteousness now is it ??? are you going to tell me that Jesus said - don't worry about sin - you can keep doing it because I payed the price so you are forgiven now and forever more - go and sin because your debt is paid - I did it all - now even people that practice sin regularly have no fears. Don't keep Gods laws in fact break them whenever you want because again - I did it ALL
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
you know what,I am tired. I extended an invitation to you on private msg, but your heart is shut tight. Well, if the law works for you, then let it be.
All i know is under God's grace, I am empowered to sin NO MORE. I am Greatly Blessed, Highly Favored, Deeply Loved by Jesus. My repentance is simply turning to him and not the law. By Adam's one sin, we are made sinners, by Jesus's one sacrifice, we are free from the curse of the law. All this I say in Jesus's name, amen.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby My heart is not shut tight at all - you have no clue what grace actually is - you think grace is a license to sin and your dead wrong !!!! if you continue to practice sin you will go to hell. Jesus said depart from me you workers of lawlessness - they did not obey Gods laws - if you turn to Jesus then you will obey him - pick up your cross AND FOLLOW HIM - did Jesus sin ? No - Jesus wants us to do the OPPOSITE of sin - we can see how jesus taught righteousness and repentance
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@eclecticderby If you actually turn to jesus then you will repent and stop your wicked ways - actions speak louder than words.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 yes, I will stop my wicked ways, and that's because of his grace, not because I try to keep the law by my own might. Again, you dun understand grace. Peace to you, I pray that you no longer follow the "ministry of death" (law) as the bible calls it. Bye!
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby not once have i ever said that we keep the law through our own strength - like i was telling you - you have to figure out the truth by finding the situation where all the verses are true - here is a summary that will give you the idea - remember not one verse can be ignored !!! We repent and turn from sin - when we do that our past sins are forgiven, and we receive Gods mercy and also grace which is makes us want to obey God, we then start a new life - old things are past away
fernieboy100 10 months ago
so now we are walking in newness of life and we have the strong desire to obey God - we have faith in Jesus and what he did to forgive us of our past sins. We know that we are not righteous on our own we are well aware that a change has happenned - the work of Gods holy spirit has changed us - now we hate sin and love righteousness - and as a result we will bear good fruit instead of evil fruit and we want to keep his commandments- not because we earn heaven by it but because we actually want to
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 You keep talking about the devil believing. he didn't believe in God. He believe in himself. Belief is accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. The devil didnt. In fact, the devil have no forgiveness of sins because Jesus died for his glorious bride, the church, the humans, not angels and principalities in hell or heaven. When you finally understand that God do not impute your sin, disobedience, lawlessness to you, only then can u be empowered to sin NO MORE. That's grace.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 Jesus hate sin, but he love sinners. We bankrupt man cannot keep the law. We in and of ourselves CANNOT keep the law. Sin, taking advantage of the law, produce in us all manner of sinning. It's in the bible. (Romans 7) And because the law is so holy, and God must judge sins, he sent his son to die for ALL our sins. Today, we are no longer under the curse of the law, and by his grace, we stop sinning. our forgiveness is paid for, justified in Jesus's work!
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 obedience is NOT needed to gain his favor. Rather we are obedience because when we know we have his favor apart from our works, we cant help but be obedient! obedience is the fruit, not the root. his favor, his love, his forgiveness is the root and the power and the grace to STOP sin. This is the last msg i am sending you, i am tired. You have heard enough. Like the Pharisees, you choose law, unlike the sinners who got healed in the gospels, who broke all laws and still have grace.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby The pharisees did not like what Jesus had to say - but I love what Jesus had to say. So to say I am a pharisee is simply a lie - and we know what happens to liars - all liars go to hell. You dont see the symbology of the people crawling towards jesus and screaming out for help - that is a symbol of repentance - jesus did not follow people down the road - tap them on the shoulder and heal them. I choose faith in Jesus - I know the law does not save me - but I want to obey God .
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 Jesus said "NEITHER DO I CONDEMN YOU, GO AND SIN NO MORE." Until you understand, as Paul wrote: There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION, you cannot go and sin no more. Ok, time to let you go, and think about everything I have said. I have picked apart all your arguments in the bible. All there's left is your own heart - are you for Jesus, or the law. Peace to you. Amen.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby LOL you have picked apart nothing at all - youi think repentance is not necessary - yet john the baptist - Jesus - and all the disciples and prophets preached repentance - stop sin and do righteousness instead - and you are trying to find ways around that - I see it all the time but your heading for hell if you think you do not have to stop sinning - thats a lie from the pit of hell - the counter-fit disobedient churches teach that fake perverted gospel and now you are too
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 here is the revelation you are lacking: you dun NEED to stop sinning, you GET EMPOWERED to stop sinning. hahahahha. You really dun understand!
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby 2nd corinthians 7:10 - for godly sorry worketh repentance not to be repented of. Jesus and john the baptist first words to sinners were - repent - which is stop sinning - you dont understand that you have to use your own free will at first to turn from sin - and then you receive the holy spirit - practicing sinners do not get filled with the holy spirit it is given to those that obey acts 5:32
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@eclecticder first you say sin does not matter - now you are changing your tune because the bible totally exposes that lie. I say we both need to stop sinning and ALSO get empowered to stop it - you have also changed your meaning of grace - before you said grace and law keeping are not the same thing - you thought they were two different things - now you seem to atleast grasp that grace works in us to keep Gods laws. Before you thought grace meant we dont have to keep Gods laws !!!! admit it
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100
law came by Moses, but grace and truth COMES by Jesus Christ. god see the truth and grace as ONE. No law. They didnt say the law came by Jesus Christ. Grace and law cannot mix. again, the “Schizophrenic Christianity" comes to mind. CHOOSE a side. you are either in grace, or you are in law.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby The verse IMMEDATELY AFTER 1 cor 6:9 - "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."
- OUR SINS DO NOT MATTER.
1 john 2: first verse tells you: 'And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world'
AGAIN I SAY TO YOU:
- OUR SINS DO NOT MATTER.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
Now look at the above statement that you have made - you said that our sins do NOT matter. I said that grace is the work of God in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure - Grace works obedience in us - and that obedience means keeping Gods laws - its the obedience through faith and grace - it comes from jesus - to say that our sins do not matter is what is schizophrenic - if you are saved you will flee from sin not make excuses for it - cheap grace says sin is okay - thats why you say it
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 I have said everything I can, now if you want to continue in law, in condemnation, it's your choice. =) Just remember this:
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
You will still go to heaven no matter what. Just that in this life you made Christ of no effect in your life. Oh well, peace to you. i wont reply anymore.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby Again - I don't know how many times I have to say this - WE ARE NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW, I never ever said we were justified by the law !!!! That verse has to be true - as all verses have to be true and I have read it many times before and I can see how it all fits together. If you keep the law for the right reasons which is because you love God and have respect for his laws then the law is good. Thinking keeping the law earns heaven is wrong - and I dont think it EARNS heaven.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
You can have the faith of Jesus - the faith of Abraham - beleive in what Christ did - receive grace which is strength and conversion by God - turn from sin - and keep the commmandments of God - you can do all of those things - to leave any of them out you would be ignoring parts of the bible. The turning from sin with our own free will - brings us to Gods mercy - then in his mercy he gives us grace to empower us on the new path - then we bear good fruit and keep his commandments.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
It is not evil to obey Gods laws - its not legalistic and its not trying to earn heaven. Grace works in us so that we want to and are able to keep Gods laws - I dont know why you keep saying nobody can keep the law - that is a false teaching taught in the counter fit fake christian churches that break the sabbath and follow their own traditions rather than what the bible teaches.If God has changed our hearts and the holy spirit is in us we will be able to keep Gods laws - its not that hard
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 if you insist on saying that repentance means not sinning in the bible, then you are saying that God sinned and then he confessed to stop sinning. Yes, that is what you are saying, since in so many places in the bible, God repented.
It means a change of mind. change from not believing Jesus to turning to him, not the law. That is repentance. the law is too magnified for us to keep, we cannot but sin, and strength of sin is in the law. (1 Cor. 15:56) We live by faith, not law.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4-5.
Have I told you lies so far? nope, everything I said is from the bible, in their full context. Jesus redeemed us form the law, why turn back to the law?
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby he redeemed us FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW that falls on anyone that does not keep the law. Our past sins are forgiven and we now walk on a new path and WE SIN NO MORE. With the work of Jesus in our life we overcome sin and the bondage to sin. It's all to the glory of God because it is his spirit that allows us to overcome sin - we dont take the credit for it - its the work of God. A born again beleiver has the holy spirit in them - do you know how powerful the holy spirit is ?
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 Did i say we NEED to keep god's law? i said we cannot keep. We must turn away from the law, so that we can be empowered not to sin. If we sin, the sin is not imputed to us, that is why sinning doesnt matter to our salvation, today and forever. law is the strength of sin, we are redeemed from the law and our old man was crucified with Jesus on the cross, He took our sin away.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@eclecticderby No you need to turn from sin and keep his commandments - but for the right reasons. Obeying Gods laws is evidence of salvation - just like bearing good fruit is evidence of salvation - born again beleivers hate sin - Gods spirit is in them and they see how awful sin actually is and it revolts them - if a person does not have this view of sin its because they are NOT born again. Fake christians that are not born again make up excuses for sin - true beleivers are hard on sin.
fernieboy100 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 do you believe when Paul said : "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace."? if you do, then why do you still turn to the law? Do you believe John when he said: "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."? if you do, why do you still turn to the law?
You say believe the whole bible. The verses you quoted for me, i have explained clearly the doctrine of grace.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 I m glad that I have rebutted all and i mean all your verses by looking at their full context. and you have not a SINGLE time give me any answers on the verses I gave you. The obvious one is that "For we are not under law but under grace." If you insist on keeping the law, then too bad. Christ is of no effects whosoever is under the law.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 Galatians 3: 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 I think Galatians 3 is the verse for you. 1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
Tear the veil of the law.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 The law is just and holy. God forbid it be made void. However, it is FULFILLED by Jesus, who redeemed us from the curse of the law, so that we live by the ministry of the spirit, not the ministry of death or condemnation, and Paul says how much will the ministry of spirit be more glorious than the ministry of the law. The bible is very clear, again, you cant stop grace, my verses are true and definite. That is the Loving God you serve, who NEVER impute your sins to you. Embrace it.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 lol, repentance means God change his mind. after that He did not do what he set out to do. We have to change our minds to turn to Jesus. I said again, stop sinning doesnt matter in our salvation, but its the fruit of our salvation. Our sins are forgiven today and forever.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 Jesus proclaimed unmistakably that God's law is so perfect and absolute that no one can achieve righteousness. Yet God's grace is so great that we do not have to. By striving to prove how much they deserve God's love, legalists miss the whole point of the gospel, that it is a gift from God to people who don't deserve it. The solution to sin is not to impose an ever stricter code of behavior, or follow the law. It is to know His forgiveness is paid in full and not in installments.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 YES. :) you are getting in agreement with me now. I m glad you understand that it is Jesus' forgiveness that empowered the woman, and us, to stop sinning.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@fernieboy100 Galatians 2:16
"know that A MAN IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW BUT BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. So we too have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO-ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED."
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 read for yourself the verses I just posted. If the law can by kept then Jesus died for nothing. We could still go to heaven without Him (by your logic) since in the OT everyone without Jesus could *keep the law*.
Galatians 2:16
"know that A MAN IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW BUT BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. So we put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW NO-ONE WILL BE JUSTIFIED."
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 if you don't think the law earns your entry to heaven, then why keep saying that not keeping the law will send you to hell? it's like saying - the law is not what brings you holiness to heaven, it's Jesus- and then later on, say - oh you dun keep the law, you go to hell. It's again the “schizophrenic Christianity". You either earn your place in heaven by Jesus or by law. no combination. the just shall live by faith, and the law is NOT of faith. its in the bible. It's clear.
eclecticderby 10 months ago
@fernieboy100 the verses about the law clearly tells you that the law is not be kept. The commandments are not to be kept. The context of the verses divide the word. The OT is done away, the new has come. The ministry of death is passed away, the new ministry of the spirit is much more glorious. Sin is stopped not by law, but grace. law will never stop sin. It is the strength of sin. We must know sin and law have no curse on us because our salvation is not justified by the law.
eclecticderby 10 months ago