Canada issues ultimatum to Afghan elders - 07 Dec 07

[firepower01]

I wish my country would stop standing behind the USA in all it's retarded middle east shenanigans.

[HALEYSABAI]

is that pepsi can in the background a subliminal marketing ploy? Canada has always been the "boy scouts" in a world of wolves and tigers. Your have wasted your time and blood in a country that has lost an entire generation to war and remain socially,spiritually and economically in the 12th century.

It is simply the height of arrogance to think YOU can HELP these people. GO HOME!

[quickfixyz]

now the canadians are leaving with tails bet their legs , lol , i guess the elders showed them the middle finger to canadians.

[monavari]

fuckedy fuck fuck fuck fuck fucker fucken shit

[pashtungirl]

we want our country back. you give our country to persian,uzbiks and hazarra. leave my country.we know our right.

[afghans4eva]

pashtun bitch you are taking most of the ISAF money and have most of the seats in the parliament and you acting like a victim. you bitch instead of complaining use your brain and build the nation along uzbeks tajiks and hazaras

[SCOTSDOC]

23 Mar 08 ....."Some 40 road tankers supplying fuel to troops in Afghanistan have been destroyed by suspected pro-Taleban militants on the border with Pakistan."

[pathanzamir]

If the Americans and Europeans will involve in the Afghanistan and Iraq there will be more problems, becuase they can not impose their ideas and view on other to follow the religion and rule their nations. Better they stay away from the other countries and protect their interest. It is the worst in Afghnistan and Iraq now enoght peoples already died in the name of war. do not drop the bombs on innocent womens and children enoght now. mind your business

[SCOTSDOC]

16Dec 07 BUSH IS WORRIED AFGHANISTAN IS LOST!

"Amid rising concerns about lagging progress in Afghanistan, the top U.S. commander in the region has launched a review of the American mission.." 6years have passed.

[Missy944]

inka i feel you i am an afghan and i support canadians and nato-trops down with taliban bastards and al-qaida!!

[OurBestLife]

islam is peace

islam is beautiful

islam make us happy

[Hopeful71]

Islam can be peaceful

Islam can be beautiful

Islam can make you happy

Islam can be hijacked

Islam can be manipulated

Islam can be dangerous

Islam will be seen as both unless peaceful Muslims spend less time defend Islam as beautiful and more time condemning those who misuse it.

The Muslim extremists prosper when moderate Muslims say nothing.

[Inkan1969]

I really wish the best for the soldiers in the ANA and NATO and ISAF. I hope they can pull off this hard mission. Musa Qala should never have been left to the Taliban. Here's hoping they can defeat the Taliban, to save the world from them. And here's hopine they and Kabul will listen to the people this time and pay attention to security and good government.

[hissami]

id understand your point if this was regarding the war in iraq, but if there is no peace in afghanistan, there wont be peace in the world, all of the true fundamentalists do come from that part of the world originating in pakistan so b4 you ignorantly are pessimistic on the war, research what has happened in afghanistan for the past 3 decades and then make your judgement

[highway39]

What an informed look at the dynamics at play here. The people of Afganastan need to liberate themselves....stand up to oppression whether it be taliban or isaf

[Mujahid1]

Actually the Afgan people are attempting to liberate themselves from the presence of foreign armies and are standing up to oppression as we speak. Allahu Akbar! Allahu akbar! Allahu akbar!

[Qeeyroo]

the afghan puppets can't govern, can't fight or hold ground captured by Nato (even with all the assistance), they're corrupt opportunists. Nato doesn't have the force or support on the ground necessary to keep the Taliban out.

Taliban will win eventually.

[desidesi21]

I think Bush needs to look into this when he proudly proclaims of "Democracy in Afghanistan".

The problem here is understanding of the issue as the US sees it. Issues aren't resolved by imposing your ideologies on others, but rather through understanding of complicated situations by letting a society solve its own problems. Help is useful, but direct interference leads to no where.

[konagnu]

Desidesi21, The Taliban was a small minority trained in Pakistan, financed and armed by Saudi Arabia. They imposed 7th century barbaric Islamic ideologies on the Afghanis. Those poor people would have no opportunity to solve its own problems. Take a few hours and learn about radical Islam for yourself, don't buy the BS of the PC crowd. You will be blown away by what you learn. Just google radical Islam to start.

[desidesi21]

Konagnu: No I don't need to Google "radical" Islam to learn from Dan Pipes, Pat Robertson or from any of your neo-con lunatic "experts". NO I'm not a "Godless Liberal". I reckon you google, neo-facism and neo-colonialism. Your narrow-mindedness is understandable since you've been fed this all day long in your Murdoch-Media. Your naive conclusions are to be blamed on deprivation of REAL information. I'm an American who's lived in mid-eastern countries, and it's just sad to read your foolishness

[konagnu]

desides, I did not mean to anger you, my apologies. I just googled Radical Islam; within the top 10 listings: CBS, Obsessionthemovie (CNN), World Net Daily, Asia Times, Slate. None of those sources are Neocon or neo fascist. Even some very liberal Dems recognize the Radical Islamic threat, one example, Ed Koch. One need not be a right wing fanatic to see the danger to the west. Simply study the Qur'an, Hadith & Sira. I have for the past 6 yrs. All my best to you.

[konagnu]

desides, I respect that you have lived in a mid-eastern country, I lived for years in a house full of women, but that did not make me an expert or help me understand how they think. I'm sorry you think me foolish, but I'm more sorry that you are closed minded. Harry Reid was recently on the Senate floor proclaiming his understanding of Islam, because his wife's Dr. is Muslim.

[konagnu]

Lastly desides, Hassan Abbasi, Head the Center for Security Doctrines Research of the IRGC announced: "We have a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization". This was not Pat Robertson talking (or a neocon, or fascist), but a top leader of the most powerful Islamic state on earth. Have you heard of HOJATIEH? The 5 yr old 12th Imam - the Mehdi and deep wells? Do you know who currently rules Iran? How, from a 60-word post you can conclude that I don't get real information?

[desidesi21]

Konag, I am a proud Muslim who has spent a lot of time studying the miraculous Quran, the beautiful Sira'h, and the amazing Sunnah. Yes there are violent Muslims, just like there ARE violent Crusader Christians, and Jewish Kahanist Zionist terrorists. I respect all religions and hence never resort to slandering them. But that doesn't mean that I don't hold Islam as the ultimate truth. I believe in a civilized, intellectual discourse, and I can try to clear some of your misunderstandings on Islam

[Inkan1969]

I'm with you, desides. I support the War on Terror against the Taliban and al-Qaeda, for a world free of their evil and an Afghanistan free to reconstruct. But I know as should everyone that those two don't reflect Islam at all.  They've perverted it instead. Islam is one of the world's great religions; maybe its adherents have their rightful freedom to worship.

[desidesi21]

Inkan1969, while I realize that you rightly understand the difference between Islam and Talibanism, I definitely want to present to you a perspective on this so called "war on terror". Firstly, realize that these fear tactics used by the Murdoch-media to instill fear amongst Americans that "Taliban will take over the world", are nothing but an act of promoting & justifying the neo-imperialist ideology of invading other lands.

[Inkan1969]

The Taliban and al-Qaeda showed themselves to be a world danger in the September 11 terrorist attacks. My father worked at the World Trade Center in 1969-79 as an electrical engineer who helped build the buildings. For me the military part of the War on Terror specifically means the defeat of the Taliban and al-Qaeda and the capture of their leaders, and the restoration of political stability in Afghanistan. And I never considered the Invasion of Iraq as part of the War on Terror.

[desidesi21]

Secondly Inkan, Osama was armed & trained by the CIA for the Soviet war when this same terrorist was the darling of this same Murdoch-Media that used to present him as a hero. The current geopolitical complications are impossible to explain in 60 words, but please realize that there is a bigger picture that Americans are deprived of by this Murdoch-Media (think about how the Iraq-war was promoted on a pack of lies). This is akin to the British colonial domination albeit via different means.

[konagnu]

desidesi, You keep beating this Murdoch-Media drum. (I must remind you that earlier you accused me of getting all my info from there) It sounds like you get your info from MoveOn, MediaMatters, MSNBC & the like. CIA did train mujahideen in Pakistan, who in turn fought along side bin Laden, but to suggest CIA trained bin Laden is dubious at best. You will only find support for such theories (claims) in left-wing sources (ie socialistworker(dot)org, MSNBC etc) NO credible media agrees.

[konagnu]

Osama may have been a CIA asset, but at the time there was a common enemy, and Osama went through some changes philosophically between the mujahideen times and al-Qaeda.

[konagnu]

A good article here globalresearch(dot)ca/articles­/CHO110A(dot)html

you can't accuse globalresearch of being Murdoch or right wing.

[desidesi21]

Konagu, I don't talk about the complications of geopolitics in a span of such short word limits. But, in a nutshell, if OBL were ever to be found in a Muslim city, he would be publicly killed by the Muslims themselves. People don't have an idea of how disgusted the majority of Muslims are with that terrorist, and of course, no matter how many "ideological changes" that bastard terrorist went through, he remains, to this day, a terrorist who was initially armed and trained by the CIA

[desidesi21]

Lastly Konagu, I also duly apologize if my tone sounded harsh to you. Since I never slander anyone else's religion, I expect the same from people I talk to about my religion. I take it very offensively if someone tries to compare my GREAT Prophet [Sallallah-o-Alaiyhe Wasalam]'s brilliant Sirah to something even remotely bad, let alone directly calling it "barbaric". I believe in clearing misunderstandings through proper, respectful discourses without hurting others' feelings.

[desidesi21]

Konagu: It's also important to highlight that before having any understanding of Muslims as a civilization, it's imperative to not judge them based on Western secular norms and perspectives. A broadened perspective is required as a minimum pretext for any understanding what so ever.

[konagnu]

desides, You state that "I never slander anyone else's religion, I expect the same from people I talk to about my religion" This is a flaw that I see (with all due respect) in the Muslim outlook, critical examination of Islam is viewed as slander. I have to judge from western (secular or religious) standards, and my observations are every bit as valid as yours from a Muslim viewpoint.

[desidesi21]

I understand that your viewpoint is as valid as the Muslims', in fact I never called it invalid, but what is important to understand is that it's not the ONLY valid viewpoint. Judging from a single rigid perspective is what I see as a flaw (with due respect as well) in today's media-propagated outlook of judging Muslims

[desidesi21]

Secondly konagnu, I feel that there should definitely be some restraint in calling a whole belief system barbaric no matter how critical the examination is. I certainly don't mind answering any critical questions that you may think you have as long as the thin line between 'criticism' and disrespect isn't crossed. This part of the deal goes back to viewing Muslims from their perspective, as they have certain respect for certain Figures that is placed very close to the heart.

[konagnu]

I agree about criticism and disrespect, therein lies the rub, who makes the call as to what is which? If (and you must agree) some Muslims are willing to kill, riot, loot and burn over a cartoon, and other are calling for the beheading of a woman for naming a teddy bear, (or actually murdering a critic Theo van Gough) many potential critics are intimidated into staying quiet.

[konagnu]

Where is the discourse in this kind of environment? I watched a translation of a Saudi discussion group (memri dot org). The discussion was what to do with apostates. There was a poll with 3 choices, Talk to the apostate, kill them, or let the law deal with it (which could be Kill as well) Well over 50% chose kill.

[desidesi21]

Konagnu: Let's first address the issue of criticism. Criticism for the sake of criticism is not criticism. This is what majority of today's "critics" do in the case of Islam. From a Muslim's perspective, this is seen as nothing but an act of humiliating the religion [think of Wafa Sultan]. Add to this the ground actions of invading and killing of innocent Muslim civilians all around the world, and it sparks immense mistrust, which of course leads to some violent outliers as you mentioned.

[desidesi21]

Secondly Konag, in the case of criticism/questions out of concerns fuelled by the media such as, "Does Islam calls for destruction of the Western world"? The answer to which is, "OF COURSE NOT" OR "Does it ask for conversion by force" well, "NO, for there is no compulsion in Religion" and etc. then the onus is on the Muslims to reach out to clear all these ill communicated notions. Please understand that these are short versions of very common questions, and I'm not over-simplifying the concerns

[desidesi21]

Konagnu: When it comes to stepping over the line in terms of disrespect in a discourse, I feel disrespect needs to be understood in terms of a Muslim's perspective, for he's the one who's getting disrespected in the end. Of course, I do understand that Muslims should not expect their personal level of reverence. BUT again, not disrespecting doesn't mean to revere highly for there's something in between, and this something is what people need to understand about Muslims.

[desidesi21]

Thirdly Konagnu, a quick point on MEMRI DOT ORG, I'm pretty sure, being the informed person that you are, you are well aware that this is Zionist run organization started by ex-Mossad/IDF officials incl. Yigal Carmon. You must also be aware of the amount of skepticism the Zionist ideology brings to the table whenever it is related to such issues in any way what so ever. How then can you expect a dialogue of trust, when a medium of such mistrust is present in between?

[desidesi21]

Finally Konganu, since you are talking about freedom of speech. I ask you this: Where was this freedom of speech, WHEN DAVID IRVING WAS JAILED FOR THREE YEARS IN EUROPE FOR HIS VIEWS ON THE HOLOCAUST. Why isn't that included in freedom of speech, where as making a cartoon out of Someone that's most revered to Billions around the world is? This is just one out of many examples of double standards in dealing with issues pertaining to the Muslims.

[konagnu]

desidesi, I cannot speak for European laws. There are a lot of wackos who deny the holocaust running around FREELY in the US. Double standards? What about Theo van Gough? We are not killing people and blowing shit up because we ar "offended". And why should those who don't share your beliefs have to fear reprisal for voicing (or drawing) what they wish? There is no "Right to not be Offended" in the Bill of Rights.

[konagnu]

The TV shows are NOT produced by MEMRI, they translate and make the clips available. If Oprah is rebroadcast in Iran from a Gov't run TV station with translation, the fact that the Gov't rebroadcast it does not make it hojatieh programing. MEMRI does serve as a window to the west into Muslim Views. And it is scary to me that well over 50% of respondents thought it okay to just kill apostates. where is free choice and peace?

[cormex55]

Ever get the feeling they don't want to end the war? yeah... ever get the feeling this is not even about terrorism when thousands of illegals cross the border ever night while American sends it's troops overseas?...yeah...

[Inkan1969]

No, I don't.

[cormex55]

Why bother about Afghanistan? Bin Ladin is supposed to be in Pakistan... with the political situation there and the fact that they have nukes, wouldn't it make more sense to look there? Even flank him on both sides coalition forces from Afghan with Pakistani Military from the other?

[konagnu]

Like Islam? this is from a pro-islam site:

islam-qa(dot)com/index(dot)php­?ref=5441&ln=eng

"Question:

Some enemies of the religion claim that Islam was spread by the sword. What is your response to that?

Answer: Islam was spread by proof and evidence, in the case of those who listened to the message and responded to it. And it was spread by strength and the sword in the case of those who stubbornly resisted, until they had no choice and had to submit to the new reality."

[Mike629l]

Those who are appointed by the religion's deity, are the true representatives of the deity, and hence the religion itself. So you should be now faced with the fact that ALL of the Prophet's battles were purely defensive in nature. (This renders the above q-a irrelevant.)

Concerning this specific q-a website, it is Salafi, which allows them to recognize (partially) the facts of the brutality in the treatment of people, by self-proclaimed advocates of non-divinely appointed leadership/rule.

[Mike629l]

[konagnu] The site only speaks for one version of islam... It is truthful in the history, (And it was spread by strength and the sword in the case of those who stubbornly resisted.) But the history of those who follow a prophet, unless they follow the commandments of the prophet (without twisting/manipulating them,) are no-one to speak about, or be listened to. (Apart from the mandatory requirement of listening to them for self-preservation.)

[konagnu]

Interesting you should say that, history disagrees. Millions of Hindus slaughtered, Millions of Africans slaughtered. And the slaughtering continues today. Darfur etc etc.

Even according to the Qur'an, Hadith & Sira, Muhammads battles were NOT defensive unless you apply some twisted logic to say that someone who did not want to convert was a threat.

[konagnu]

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Qur'an should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth"

--Omar Ahmed, Chairman of the Board of CAIR (Council of American Islamic Relations), San Ramon Valley Herald, July 1998

[konagnu]

And Mike6291, visit memri(dot)org click on the videos on left of the home page and see what the "divinely appointed" have to say in their own words.

Are you trying to convince people in the West that Islam is a religion of peace? Is this your try at taqiyya? Yes, it's peace for Momins, we kafirs are not so lucky. Muhammad says we must convert, submit & pay jizya or die. I won't convert or submit, would you have me be killed or just pay jizya? Islam is intolerant and lawless.

[Mike629l]

[konagnu] I do not fear for my life, hence taqiyya, is not needed.

Chapter 1 verse 2: al-h.amd li-'allaah rabb al-caalamen; NOT: al-h.amd li-'allaah rabb al-muslimin. Meaning: I do not say "convert or die".

People after the prophet thought this, but they also thought that the one in charge does not need to be appointed by God.

History, as you know it, was forbidden to be spread and written down for a number of years after the demise of the prophet.

[konagnu]

"Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clear from error" (Sura 2.256) abrogated by Suras 9.73,5.33,5.51,8.12-13,8.37,8.­39 and on & on.

Re your comment after "History" are you saying the Qur'an is not perfect? The Hadith inaccurate?

Cannot taqiyya also be called on to avoid bodily harm and in the furtherance of the cause of Islam?

[Mike629l]

Lying is a grave sin, Taqiyya is when you fear death. Those who severely beat, can also kill.

'Perfect' is ambiguous. The Quran is in the original form without modifications.

Yet being unchanged in terms of all content, does not imply being unchanged in terms of Interpretation.

I will check all the verses you presented and get back to you... but you must understand the reason for verse 256's revelation:

[Mike629l]

A companion -- AbuHasin, had two sons. Both inclined to Christianity because of the preaching of some priests. Although AbuHasin asked the prophet to encourage his sons back, the verse tells you that compulsion is not compatible with religion.

It comes demonstratively after verse 255 to emphasize that truth and error are clear from each other, any person of good will, and common sence should have no doubt in his hear over the tenets of Islam (they can be proved by reasoning and common sense).

[Mike629l]

I will:

*Check the verses you presented: see if there was any abrogation. (Ch 2 v 256 was not to my knowledge abrogated, as the reason of revelation was not war).

*Cite some parts of the Quran to demonstrate that the Prophet's battles were defencive, except for those where the Muslim were convinced that the enemy would persist in its aggressiveness and treachery, (and were ordered to take the initiative in defending themselves). {I do not defend what happened after the Prophet.}

[Mike629l]

What does this mean? It means that the history could have been and was tampered with. I deny what I know is likely forged, not facts.

India, Darfur, Afgnanistan, et al. are all Facts.

Sects do exist. What you try to pass of as who the Prophet truly was, that is mostly an interpretation of only some historical accounts.

The "Scholars" of the Taliban, for example, do not rely upon all the same ahadith as other groups.

[Mike629l]

Ch 5 v.33: cause of revelation:

A group of pagan Arabs came to the prophet, and became Muslims. Yet the climate of Medina was detrimental to their health, and the prophet settled them in a green grown and verdant place in the suburb. This was a place where the public's sheep and camels were kept grazing. They regained their health from drinking out of the camel's milk and enjoying the fresh and nice climate. They soon were cured and recovered their strength.

[Mike629l]

Yet, Then what did they do?

Instead of being grateful, they apostatized, and they killed those who kept the camels, (cameleers,) blinded the shepherds, they cut off the hands and feet of the servants... and they ran away towards Mecca, taking with them all of the animals.

So, the prophet ordered his guards to chase them, and they were all arrested and brought to the prophet. The prophet decreed the same injury as that they had done -- An eye for an eye, murder for murder. (This is not a verse

[Mike629l]

...that abrogates Ch 2 v 256)

This implies that:

*Here waging war against Allah and His apostle, means invasion upon the life and properties of people; Fighting against guiltless people in the sight of God is as if fighting against God himself.

*These punishments, mentioned in verse 33, are applied according to the crime's nature.

*Verse 34, modifies the punishment due to repentance prior to being caught.

Again some say the whole hand, some say four fingers - Multiple interpretations.

[Mike629l]

5.51 -- This verse does not abrogate Ch 2 v 256 for two sufficient reasons.

The verse does not say "people of the book," rather if look at the cause of revelation it refers to only a sect of them, (the Jews and a group of the Christians called 'nasara' who lived in the suburbs of Median).

[Mike629l]

The word for friend here is 'owlia', and is rooted. It's translated 'friends' but means also guardianship, and extraordinary nearness -- valayat. The verse explains also why Muslim should not depend not upon their compacts and unions, and instead should try to rely upon themselves --. "Some of them are friends to some others."

[Mike629l]

What was the cause? The cause was that after the battle of badr, Ebad ibn Sabit, wanted to end his league with those Jews who threatened the Muslims. He told this to the Prophet. A hypocrite --Abdullah ibn AbiSellul, interrupted and said that the Muslims will "always be in need of such friends." The Prophet said he feared such a level of intimacy with the Jews. So Abdullah said he would end his relations with them.

Abdullah Lied, he did not break them, and the verse defined that this was wrong.

[konagnu]

Mike, here's the problem, You say "Jews who threatened the Muslims" but your definition of "threatened" includes unwillingness to convert or be subjugated like the 700-900 Jews who were ordered beheaded by your Holy Prophet with their hands bound. It seems that early on, before he had a lot of power Mohammad wanted to be friendly with the Jews as he needed their help in Medina.

[Mike629l]

No, my definition of a threat, is when there is a warning of a danger to me by another person, due to a loss on my behalf because of that person. That is not a dictionary definition it is MY definition... Meaning if I own a store, I can have two types of threats: 1) A group will threaten my life directly by saying they will kill unless I do something. 2) A group will threaten my lively hood unless I do something. These are both threats, despite not targeting my life.

[Mike629l]

From a Wahhabi source I heard the event about this tribe (~900). Wahhabis twist Islam much, but they narrated this event differently.

1: The prophet did not pass the ruling in this case. It was a former Jew, who was mortally wounded, and the Jews agreed to as an arbitrator on their behalf, who said that all the men needed to be killed. (He prayed, and G-d extended his life long enough to pass the judgment.)

[Mike629l]

2: These were Jews who had a pact with the prophet, who said they were with him, and later abandoned this promise.

Betrayal, was their crime... So both the Prophet and the Jews, agreed to side with the judgment of a former Jew -- the arbitrator. Their arbitrator passed the ruling that all the men should be killed for their crime.

Two other Jewish tribes before this one were spared.

[konagnu]

Mike, Yet another twisting of logic, betrayal was defined by Muhammad uniquely from anyone else. He said he can change his adhearance to a treaty, for example, and that is okay, but, if the other party does not go along with this change, it is "Betrayal". Juatified because Allah "revealed" this to be so. It is never quid pro quo.

[Mike629l]

Logic, is logic, else it is me talking with someone insane.

My logic is simple, if any party violates a term of a contract, that contract is void. End of story.

Betrayal, is more like, I promise to support you in a war, and then halfway through, I either desert or turn against you.

The 900 people, did both, yet still they did not win, and were hence arbitrated for.

[Mike629l]

How do you know who's peaceful, and who is not.

Stick to wearing solid colours, and smile. If they do not smile back that would be a good sign something is wrong. If you ask them what's wrong , and they look don't respond, consider them unresponsive, and don't aggravate the situation.

Another point, don't raise up sensitive topics, and travel with a person who knows his stuff.

[Mike629l]

Another point of advice, chances are it is impossible to know when a Muslim is about to explode, so stick to talking about non sensitive topics, and asking non sensitive questions.

Some tourists in Jerusalem, were so pathetic as to not see the fighting that was taking place, that they got themselves into. IDF and some others.

My suggestion, look around before taking photos.

[Mike629l]

Also, all are bound to die someday, pick a reason for dying, and stick to that reason.

Fearing death means you lack such a reason.

[konagnu]

Mike, thank you for your patience, I am left believing that it is pathetic that one can "explode" and blame that explosion on another. It seems endemic in the teaching of Islam to for it's followers to look for a reason to "explode". Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Theists, Deists, polytheists, have for the last several centuries have grown out of this adolescent behavior, why can's some (many) Muslims?

[konagnu]

Mike, what I am referring to here, is not on a one on one basis, but on a cultural and religious basis. On a global scale, it appears the West is under attack by radical Islam. What sect does a society worry about?

[Mike629l]

True Islam is peaceful... When Imam Ali (AS) was making rounds and checking upon the lands he governed at the time he was Caliph, he came across a person who was ill-fed and homeless. He asked those with him why is he in such a situation. He was told that this was a Jew. The Imam (AS) replied that this does not matter, and that if a person is not your brother in faith, he is equal in humanity.

[Mike629l]

I consider you my equal in humanity because I follow this, the Islam of those who were from those closest to the Prophet (AS).

As for thinking that there are no reasons for acts of desperation except being brainwashed, I choose to disagree. I say that being brainwashed is only the half of it. The other half is being deprived of dignity.

When you think 'the cause' is more important than you, requires not just brainwashing, but a speck of truth in it.

[Mike629l]

Think about it, how much brainwashing does one need to become desperate? I say that the person was already somewhat desperate, yet then he became brainwashed to the point when he truly did not believe in hope.

Just for interest try looking up "bir yonim" Social and Religious History of the Jews, Volume 2: Christian Era: The First Five Centuries, p47, (bottom)

Society should worry about the new sects, that have no history, and misinterpret religion for their purpose. Not the peaceful variants.

[Mike629l]

"konagnu", from Hizb-ut-Tahrir you will learn that Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab, and the British were linked. Hence, we can link "The West" to the formation of the very thing which you claim is attacking it. The radicals are disillusioned, as their sense of pride has been trampled on by there not being a Caliphate.

Society needs those without pride in their current status.

[Mike629l]

If all people were satisfied in who they were there would be no progress.

What you need to worry about are those who would choose to strive for the re-establishment of their former glory, by reviving that which gave them their glory in the past, (for what they think is 14 Centuries).

What you need to worry about is the invasion of Iran, because then many will lose their current pride.

[Mike629l]

"Some of them are friends to some others" means that being in league with two sides simultaneously would be impossible, as was demonstrated... (The Jews and 'nasara' here mentioned were mainly in leagues with themselves, and hence, for these people to be in a league with any Muslim would be impossible.)

[konagnu]

Well then Mike, how does a Kafir like myself, who has no desire to convert, be subjugated and pay tax or die because I refuse the first two options, know which Muslim (sect) is here to convert, subjugate or kill me? And which is content to respect my faith and culture? As some sects do wish an end to my faith and culture (Qur'an says no Muslim need respect an kafir's faith) why should I not resist all Muslims, I can't tell the difference.

[Mike629l]

How do you know which Muslim will or will not kill you...

1)Look to where he is from,

1.1)the level of education,

1.2)does he think for himself? (His ability to reason for himself)

2) What do his parents say?

2.1) Does he listen to them?

2.2) Where are they from?

3)What is the level of his community that he frequents?

3.1)What could his community want from the people ?

3.2)Do they stand to profit when they preach the rigid understanding. (Is it that the youth listen the rigid mostly?

[Mike629l]

Some listen, get angry, and due to their lack of religion you get 7/7.)

3.4)Are they those who attempt to take up arms?

4) Some Muslims don't consider other Muslims Muslim.

Ignorance, and the illusion of knowledge, never helps you, nor a society, (it will harm you in the long run).

Sure, resist all Muslims, yet do this in a way that does not aggravate them. Anger is not going to educate future generations, and make them peaceful. It is like you deciding to go to Iraq.

[konagnu]

Mike, Again, you take the Muslim position that is impossible to accomplish. When Muslims riot over a cartoon or over the name of a teddy bear, the line is drawn so close that no open discussion is possible without the danger aggravating them. Some seem to be on the search for things to be aggrivated about.

[Mike629l]

How this is Accomplished? Quite simply: a) Study, b) Understand c) Be first to ask questions, d) take precautions to not get injured. What does all that mean?

Let's take the bear example of Gillian:

Is she merely a teacher? NO! She's a British Ambassador in Sudan, nothing less.

There was a dispute between the Sudanese government and Britain. Two months ago, Gordon Brown threatened further sanctions against Sudan following a peace conference hosted by

[Mike629l]

Libya with the objective of ending conflict in the Darfur region. The Brits however are not taken in a very positive light, and some just use that to their advantage.

She as the British ambassador merely took the blow of the Sudanese scarred national memory, of massacres, and their logic of logic of a clash of civilizations.

All I can say to you is that most of the time, people mimic others. Hence, if you turn your house into a fortress, I think we are preparing for war.

[konagnu]

Mike, My house does not claim every patch of earth is Allah's and is to be inherited by Muslims. If one does not build a fortress, could not ones home wind up like Pakistan? Once a part of India and a predominately Hindu region, converted at swordpoint? Or Persia or Turkey, Greece, Libya and the list continues. All converted by force.

[konagnu]

Mike, When one feels threatened, please advise how this is acomplished before one's neck is cut?

[Mike629l]

KONAGNU, I truly apologize for misreading the question... The question was how do you know which sect is here to do what? The Short: By taking the time to read something like: "ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION, SECOND EDITION" and learning about all the different sects. (This will take a long time.)

Check Vol6 p681 on the Iba¯d.iyya, (if you want, they are the quietist/passive Kha¯rijites)

[Mike629l]

You I think want to take the easy path and devise a set of principals all of the sects within Islam follow... I compare this to you doing this for an asylum.

Would it not be more logical to separate the patients and the scientists ?

[konagnu]

Mike, my question arose to your response to the Islam QA answer to the question if Islam was spread by the sword. The answer was (to paraphrase) only if the infidel did not see reason he would be forced. I would view that as a threat. You assured me that only one sect had that wiew. So, my question remains, How does an infidel distinguish between a Muslim out to harm him and one who is willing to be respectful of the non-believer's faith?

[almaentity]

"Just say no". Don't "hurt" yourself with new experiences that lead to enlightenment. But when it comes to murdering people in other countries, please sign up right away! It's "heroic". Don't take any risks with yourself becoming a better person, but please slaughter as many dark skinned people as possible (yes, make sure you murder children too!).

Salutations,

USA Government

[konagnu]

almaentity, As the Geico Caveman said: "Yeah I have a response . . . uh WHAT?"

[almaentity]

Opium, oil pipelines, and geopolitical influence fuels the struggle for Afghanistan. Sadly, the USA government wants control of all three, damn to BLOODY hell (pun totally intended) the inhabitants. I am SO(!!!) ashamed of my government and the soldiers who fight for them. Disgusting!

[konagnu]

almaentity, Learn what the war is about here:

apostatesofislam (dot) com.

Then go to Blockbuster online and order "Osama" no, it's not about Bin Laden. It was the first film done my an Afghani. Enlighten yourself. BTW, this video post was about Canadians and Afgahanis. (Canada is not a State)

[hajqbvii]

Wow, towns people are placed in the middle once again.....do I get killed now...or later?

[Peter42y]

I do not know much about the issue.

If people already fear the Taliban.., how will they reject them ?

Taleban are these to stay while canadians can leave next year.

I guess elders will not choose the canadians .

This piece of information is very good indeed.

It is objective..., clear..<

Congratulations to the journalist who did it

[haseeb66]

the only way is to leave them alone..they do not understand the psychology of these people..they are very reserved and do not like the western forces forcing them their viewpoint..while they say that these people are forcing their ideology on them..

[bluecafe22]

I don't understand why Canadians are left cleaning up America's problem...

[konagnu]

Bluecafe22, Last I looked, Canada was part of America . . . Oh you meant the US! Any way, if you don't believe that radical Islam is Canada's problem (which is at the heart of the war in Afghanastan) you are being naive. Just Google radical Islam and visit a few sites, read a few articles and buy a few books. (you won't even have to look up "radical" Islam to be blown away. Try it and get back to me.

Best to you Blue.

[slowmode122]

THe Canadian forces is trying to help the AFghani people, either they accept the help of Canada or they are doomed to get overrun by the taliban

[haseeb66]

haha...people will never accept them and reject taliban..they do not care about the development issues...the west needs to understand their ideoligy and philosophy..the elders can be bribed but can't change the public minds..the only way is to leave them alone.