TAM 7

[herpderpmonkey]

I used to think it was silly that an entertainer was such a proponent of atheism and skepticism but I completely admire Penn for being an active voice for us. I noticed he's not just a magician but really intelligent, articulate, and cordial in speaking for atheists/skeptics. He's truly up there in my "Favorite skeptics" list with Steve Novella, Neil Tyson, and Dawkins.

[dwilford78]

It is real. We are already booked to go and are planning our trip there on the way from Texas. Going to see the Grand Canyon as well.

[tankmilkman]

im skeptical this meeting even takes place.

[pennsays]

@tankmilkman Ha. Nice.

[smote]

A skeptics meeting? Ah...I don't believe it. It sounds like a trick to me.

[ProudToBLoud]

This Chick pennelope or whatever her name is has a beard, deep voice an an apples apple thats even more amazing than people following a pompous little white bearded second rate magician for their science, that's amazing.

[MrBangor]

"an an apples apple"

nice....

[arbitterm]

I'll be there!

[JakeJax]

see you all At TAM 7!

[poidial]

I'm thinking it could be cool, but unsure of the true definition of a skeptic. To me, the word has slightly negative connotations. It implies entering an area of thought with a preconceived notion that it is going to be wrong without first seeing the evidence. Sounds pessimistic. I am technically minded so, granted, I usually (almost always), am quick to classify something as horse shit. But I do like to keep an open mind and suspend judgement. Are these the thoughts of a true skeptic?

[ArtfulDawdger]

Thats a cynic. A skeptic demands evidence before drawing conclusions.

[DonMeaker]

Actually, skeptic is entering an area of though without preconcieved notions. Why? Because as Feynman said, you must first avoid fooling yourself, and you are the easiest one to fool.

[RationalSkeptic]

Conference, hotel, and flight all booked. My first TAM. I can't wait!

[zooooooperdooooooper]

Penn Jillette will never address Zionism, Israel's apartheid/genocide of Palestinians, the US givt's blind support of Zionism in the hundreds of billions of dollars, or the US media's 24/7 criminal propaganda demonizing Muslims. He is paid by his master, uber-Zionist Sumner Redstone, to mock all cultural beliefs except Zionism. Zionism is the elephant in the room every time Penn Jillette pretends to attack the Judeo-Christian death cult religions.

[zooooooperdooooooper]

Good one.

>>>"Why the US and UK created Israel, evicting the indigenous people of Palestine so persecuted European Jews could move in, all because their Genocidal Invisible Cloud Father made a promise to their mythical ancestors thousands of years ago, according to their big book of pornographic bloodsoaked racist fairy tales."

[dowmagik]

wife and i will be flying in from oregon...cant wait

[cupwithhandles]

Hey there. I live in Japan, and there is an incredible about of gullibility here in the areas of medical quackery, spiritualism, fortune telling, religion, palm reading, et al, and there seems to be no serious skeptical debates or presentations countering any of these topics. We need Japanese people in a similar position as you and the Amazing Randy, with your skeptics point of view. Thanks for your efforts in promoting common sense and reason.

[funboy7979]

LMAO

>>>"Penn Jillette gets paid millions by corporate billionaires to call people "asshole" and "lying sack of shit" if they criticize corporate propaganda generated by the Cato Institute, funded by ExxonMobil, Monsanto, Walmart, Philip Morris Tobacco, etc.

All would be forgiven were he funny, which he is not. He is a relic from the Reagan era, a hasbeen in Vegas where he belongs, amusing drunks maxing out their credit cards.

"Lying fat fuck" seems about right."

[d4m4s74]

I wish I could go, but I'm nowhere close to vegas, or even the USA

[jiminipimini]

i had no idea this kind of gathering existed! thanks Penn, ill see you there.

[pennsays]

The program has a lot to offer for those that truly like to think. If you could pick, what topics would you add to the agenda?

[humanshot3]

HIV denial. Address the denialists, debunk them & tear them a new one the same way they did the truthers.

[walterglanz]

1. Why the US and UK created Israel, evicting the indigenous people of Palestine so persecuted European Jews could move in, all because their Genocidal Invisible Cloud Father made a promise to their mythical ancestors thousands of years ago, according to their big book of pornographic bloodsoaked racist fairy tales.

2. Why everything from Oreos to dish soap to garbage bags are certified as "kosher," a tax paid for in the billions by the 98% of Americans who are not Jewish.

[camino1ca]

I'm going!

[Richandler]

I would love to go Penn but I don't have the money too.

[phidelt13]

I'll be at TAM. Hope to see many of you there.

[Snotra]

This bozo is a wierdo.

[krazykizza]

Sounds like fun

[thatguywhojuggles]

Thanks for the invite, Penn. Unfortunately, despite being a huge fan of Randi and the skepticism, these TAMs are just TOO expensive for a guy like me.

[ConalCochran]

I've seen a UFO, up close. But, I'm remain VERY skeptical of most reported UFO sightings...mostly because I have NEVER seen the thing I saw photographed or filmed or even described in a documentary, youtube video or news report. For years, I've combed through lots of weird UFO shit and researched a lot of aviation history in an effort to ID it. I don't believe it was little grey men. Might have been a stealth blimp. Lockheed has a patent for them but, supposedly, they never produced any.

[andytom]

Too bad i live on the other side of the world :(

[avooslwuthoqquan]

I sure hope I can make it this year. If I can swing it, I'll see you there, Penn.

[98nafets]

Are these meetings filled with those "9/11 truthers" because that is what I am picturing.

[gjford]

no 9/11 conspiracy is bullshit the skeptics meeting is where people talk about science and debunking stuff like ghosts and religion

[donvitor]

then you have missed the whole point of what a sceptic is.

a sceptic look to science, logic, reason.

there is nothing sceintific, logical or reasonable about the 911 truth movement,

it works alot like religion in the sence :P

[Idi0cracy]

ah, so cool to read these sorts of comments

I've worked a couple of years to debunk their bu11$:+. There is finally a widespread belief that they are lunatics.

I think the major turning point was when they tried to hijack Bill Maher's show, ironically enough.

[lukea398]

i know your septic and this sounds stupid......BUT do you believe that there is other live forms in the universe. i mean there are trillions and trillions of stars and each star is a sun and a lot of them have planets around them like our sun\star......its ridiculess to think we our the only life forms in the universe. so do you believe that there're are other life forms outside our planet?

[jursamaj]

The problem is, your question is phrased wrong. Nobody should *believe* life exists elsewhere, because we simply have no evidence.

Personally, I believe there *probably* is life elsewhere, because (as you point out) there is just so much of elsewhere for life to evolve in.

[jvondd]

I wish I could be there!

[luca82]

Wil you be at TAM London Penn???

[pmq123]

I'm not 100% but i think every year they do it in Las Vagas

[luca82]

I know but they're having one in London this October, It'll be amazing if P & T came

[newz2me28792]

I doubt that there actually is a TAM meeting. They don't have any footage that is clear and there are no tracks or signs of a landing. If this supposed TAM thing takes place, it'll be a flash in the pan: Bigfoot hunters and UFO encounter groups are here. In fact one such group formed spontaneously in the hardware aisle of a local grocery shop. No midgets were harmed , I'm told...

[yammyspeed13]

They hold in the same place they filmed the moon landing and the Superbowl two weeks before they show it on TV.

[cinndave]

Parker & Stone are in your Skeptics' club? No wander you're so tight with 'em! I love how they're using SouthPark to spread their messages, which are so smart true and sensible!

[copperhead88]

whats this real guys name?

[delocon]

I wish I could come Penn, next year for sure.

[EntinludeX]

A meeting of skeptics? I doubt it..

*ba-dum ching*

[eqsheiky]

Christopher Hitchens was in Dokken?!?

Haha, I know thats not what he meant, but the way he said it made it sound that way

[BennyBuggles]

I'm thinking of going this year. Would love to meet Penn, Randi, Dawkins, others

[GGLpresidente]

I would love to go to this. Seriously would be fucking awesome. Wish i didnt live in australia right now.

[DamianaLover]

July 12th is my birthday. w00t! w00t! Wish I were going to be there, but it doesn't seem likely. Sounds like an amazing time.

btw.. Sony is evil with its DRM, SecuROM, which really fracks computers. Sony should be hit with another charge from the FTC for its marketing of such malware. C'mon FTC.. get with it already!!

[bleunt]

I read the book Science as a Candle in the Dark, or whatever the title was. Hmm. Anyway, it was funny when he mentioned both Penn & Teller and Randy in the book. :)

[culwin]

Being skeptical is great, but without people who have the imagination and belief in the crazy and irrational, the world would be missing some great creations and discoveries...

[stoova]

Like what? Gallows? Stakes?

[VolatileChemical]

You go to TAM without checking the list of guests? You just ASSUME it's going to be good without experimentation or evidence?

That doesn't sound very skeptical.

[vomitwut]

I wish I was friends with Penn in real life. SIGH!

[KALfilms]

To bad I live all the way in Sweden.

[flimflam0069]

Hey, Sweden is a nice country man, I'd be happy to live there, though I am happier living in America. Seems like you sweeds have none of the same problems as america does, and im envious of it. I wish we had the same gender equality you guys do. I've heard the nation average of the height for women is 6' and the males 6'4", is this true? If it is then dang you people are giants. . .

[KALfilms]

Haha, it's kinda true, ;] depends on where you look. Farmers are huge =O

[RoMMeL1337ak47]

ye at least we swedes don't have the problem of the imperial system.. 6'4" ehh how tall is that? lets se a foot is abut 30.48cm and a inch is 2.54cm so 30.48*6+2.54*4=193,12cm. no i don't think the average Swedish male its that tall i live in Sweden and most men are in the 175 to 190 region. heres some info i found on WikiAnswers Women;

"167,5-168cm (5'6") Men; 183cm (6'0")

But they will probably upgrade females height to 5'7 soon, since the young people getting taller and taller."

[RoMMeL1337ak47]

ops made some mistakes should have been

heres some info i found on WikiAnswers

"What is the average height is Sweden?

Women;167,5-168cm (5'6") Men; 183cm (6'0")

But they will probably upgrade females height to 5'7 soon, since the young people getting taller and taller."

[BipedalHumanoid]

I doubt a modern progressive nation would use old fashioned out-dated imperial measurements when they upgrade it ;)

[flimflam0069]

I concur.

[flimflam0069]

Fortunately because I am preparing for medschool I have been taught the metric system, so I am somewhat fluent with it, not that its that hard anyway. I still like inches though, not sure why.

[gazzmatronix]

"To bad I live all the way in Sweden." James Randi is doing an extra Amazing Meeting in London, England this October, that's a bit nearer for you. I went in 2007, met Randi, Phil Plait and Penn and talked to Teller and it was incredible experience!

[KALfilms]

Thanks for the information, I will 100% go!

[666Ran666]

Will you also be attending the London TAM??

[NLPNVC]

No aura readings, no alien abductee... Will there at least be dancing?

[Friikki111]

I have to say, I hate the phrase "skeptical point of view", I assume that everyone thinks he's a skeptic.

[garywdean]

I doubt that :)

[YellowStreamStudios]

I liked your Geroge Carlin video!

[haypenny]

I love Amazing Randy - I especially love how he methodically debunks 'psychics' and Nostradamus prophecy buffs.

[ColemanMulkerin]

It's spelled with an "i" with a little heart over the i.

[directedchaos]

Anyone going: ask Penn, again, about his stance on global warming, specifically mentioning the overwhelming scientific support for it.

Like the IPCC, the national academies of science of the major industrialized nations, and peer-reviewed scientific journals like Science.

See if he still thinks it's "bullshit."

[directedchaos]

"Hitler had the jews, liberals have "Giant Corporations""

Reductio ad Hitlerum (ish) -- you just lost.

Jews are people, worthy of protection. Corporations are just abstract profit entities.

Giant corporations in particular are dangerous because:

1) Easier to game markets -- monopolies, price fixing, etc.

2) Power concentration -- there's a reason we have whistle blower laws

3) Harder to hold accountable -- look at Enron. A massive corporate bureaucracy means it's easy to hide wrongdoing.

[purplecharger88]

These once again wouldn't be a problem in a free market society and are a problem directly because of the government.

In a free market under your first point a new company offering the same goods at a cheaper price could easily break the monopoly (DuPont vs. the German Bromine cartels)

Under points 2 & 3 does that not take care of those that were doing wrong. Was Enron not caught and forced to pay for there wrong doing. You make it sound like they got away. Justice finally caught up with them.

[directedchaos]

"Was Enron not caught and forced to pay for there wrong doing. You make it sound like they got away. Justice finally caught up with them."

5 convictions isn't exactly sufficient justice, IMO... for bringing down an entire company and manipulating an entire industry...

[purplecharger88]

But you act as if nothing was done and that is quite clearly not the case either.

[directedchaos]

"But you act as if nothing was done and that is quite clearly not the case either. "

Of course not. I say not enough was done, both on prosecutions and regulation.

[6stringbadger]

I've watched a bunch of the videos of previous TAM shows and I wish I could actually afford to go to one.

[CharBroiled04]

I'm the Treasurer for a Skeptics/Secularists group @ UCLA (the only Atheist or near-Atheist group on campus), and I'd LOVE to go to TAM (as well as some other members. Alas, our funding is a few thousand dollars shy, hah.

Maybe next year.

[JuggaloJohn]

i watch your stuff, and listen to Things like the SGU and some of JR's stuff, and the thing i see most is, Besides Penn & teller, everyone else in that Skeptics group are really far on the left,

[SuperAtheistBrothers]

I generally find that to be true as well... But I too am an atheist and an anarchist. In fact most anarchist are almost automatically atheists as a side affect of critically thinking about government.

[GreatestPotential]

I'd like to go to TAM except who is to say it going to be going on? Some sceptic!

[DrHavanger]

sounds really great, wish i could make it

[SomeLazyDr]

Woohoo! I live in Vegas!

Wish I had the cash for it though, but dammit, I WILL GO THERE WHEN I GET A JOB!

[sevendueceoffsuit]

I will be there. I'm going to be in town during those dates, thanks.

[UrinationNation]

I really wish I had money because I really want to come and this also the only reason anyone could get me to come to Las Vegas willingly, sigh, stupid fucking poverty.

[MagnusIan]

Damn I wished I lived on the West Coast so that I could go to TAM.

Plz GOD, help me? ; P

[unknownorigin84]

I would love to be at the amazing meeting but I live in England :(

[southie1292]

To be fair, i think that there will still be people talking about UFOs and reading auras, as that is the whole point of TAM. although they wont be supporting those view points.

[funboy7979]

Skeptic my ass. This fat fuck merely parrots the regime/corporate propaganda Cato Institute "experts" (whores with PhDs) churn out night and day, paid for by ExxonMobil, Monsanto, Walmart, etc. etc. ...

George Carlin: "This country is finished. The bad guys won a long time ago."

[AshillaBeige]

George Carlin wasn't right then. And the people at CATO are anti-corporatist.

They're for free markets, which is the ONLY system where it's impossible to have the mass corporatist system we have now. Seriously, economics 101. Have you ever read ANYTHING by any of the people at CATO? Shit...

[directedchaos]

"Have you ever read ANYTHING by any of the people at CATO?"

You mean, that libertarian think tank which has claimed SECOND HAND SMOKE IS SAFE?

google "CATO second hand smoke"

Which Phillip Morris lists as an ally?

google "sourcewatch CATO"

And which lists clown-college simpletons like Penn as research fellows?

google "CATO Penn"

They are "market fundamentalists" who deny scientific FACTS for fear they might LEAD to REGULATION! Don't trust them.

ps free markets encourage giant corporations..

[wrklessabndon]

Do you have ANY idea how much of a crazy conspiracy theorist you sound like?

"free markets encourage giant corporations..." SO FUCKING WHAT? Just out of curiosity which giant corporation did you buy your computer from, which giant corporation is providing your internet connection? Why not take your computer tower into town square and yell while standing on it, you'd make a bigger impact that way.

[directedchaos]

"crazy conspiracy theorist"

Giant corporations are bad, that's not a "conspiracy theory."

"A corporation is an ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." -- Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce

Even market fundies are against big corporation. The free market works via competition, big corps kill competition.

So, the WHOLE debate is that "free markets encourage giant corporations" -- your "SO FUCKING WHAT?" is admitting defeat.

[wrklessabndon]

No, my "so fucking what" is because if someone else wants to make a boat load of cash, I will frankly not stand in their way. What would be the POINT of starting a company if you had no way of attaining success? Why would you want to start a business if you could only ever break even? Stagnation helps NOBODY.

[directedchaos]

"my "so fucking what" is because if someone else wants to make a boat load of cash, I will frankly not stand in their way."

Uhm, dude, "so fucking what" means YOU ACCEPT THE PREMISE AND DON'T CARE.

I said that free markets encourage big companies, and you AGREED but DON'T CARE.

End of story. Straw men about my stance somehow being that companies shouldn't make a profit is atrocious.

Go fuck someone else's words. Mine will rape your asshole with your firstborn's dick.

[purplecharger88]

That 2nd hand smoke report was back in 1998 when there wasn't much conclusive information on the effects of second hand smoke and a lot of the papers saying it was bad were full of shit. Now we have conclusive evidence out of the UK that came out around 04 or 05 I want to say. So before you start pointing fingers maybe you should read a little more and keep your mouth shut.

[directedchaos]

"Now we have conclusive evidence out of the UK that came out around 04 or 05 I want to say."

Gee, think maybe you said that just because your prophet Penn did? Isn't it convenient that the second-hand smoke Bullshit episode was 2003, and that UK report he mentioned came out a year or two later?

It was a bullshit recanting. And CATO hasn't changed their view -- 2007 had another podcast saying the science *still* isn't there.

Maybe you should "read a little more and keep your mouth shut."

[purplecharger88]

Yes its called good science. When a theory has been proven wrong you go back to research some more. That is why its not "convenient" its good science something some people forget about. I can't defend for what CATO says or does I'm not a member but I'm just pointing out that before you go finger pointing there might be more to the story than you would like to believe.

The issue isn't wholly the fact of if it is bad but if it is forcing people to comply to bullshit laws.

[purplecharger88]

Secondly it isn't a might lead to regulations they already have. Many cities have moved on smoking bans in restaurants and other public places which is bullshit.

and as wrklessabndon said so what about corporations at least in a free market they are forced to play on an equal playing field as a opposed to the current side of things were they simply pander to congress and get there way with crushing out the competition. That isn't free market and it needs to change.

[directedchaos]

"corporations at least in a free market they are forced to play on an equal playing field"

Initially, yes, but again free markets tend to concentrate wealth and power. Monopolies are beneficial to all sellers; price fixing cartels would be rampant. The cost of entry is very high in most industries, giving the cartel plenty of adjustment time to competitors. Further, troublesome small competitors who refuse can be undercut into bankruptcy.

This does happen to mom and pop shops.

[purplecharger88]

watch?v=l0kpSVbxTik&feature=Pl­ayList&p=AC6F4EA29B1FFF5D&inde­x=49

I know I goofed on my example, but cartels are not unstoppable as you make them out to be. Dow Chemecal company beat the German bromide cartel by reselling there cheep bromide at a price lower than what they were selling in Germany. They lost profits and had to give up. Dow was one of those mom and pop shops you say don't have a chance and now they are one of the biggest chemical companies in the world.

[directedchaos]

"cartels are not unstoppable as you make them out to be"

No, and criminals could be stopped by vigilante justice. That doesn't mean we shouldn't have professionals on their case instead...

LCD price fixing happened just LAST YEAR. Huge companies like LG...

That said, your Dow example is good. Undercutting doesn't always work, and small companies can explode under good direction.

The free market is a very useful tool. The point is that it can go down bad allies, like monopolies/cartels...

[DaniOcean]

I would love to go, but unfortunately this year I don't have the money :( . Well, there is always the next one :) !

[Ninjaculation]

wait... Didn't you plug Britney spears "If you Seek Amy?"

:P

[Tarockspieler]

Theres long history of skeptics doing magic from Harry Houdini to James Randi. The stage magician can see the tricks of the paranormal and see how its all done.

[fractal420]

I wish I could make it. Perhaps next year.

[guildpactminish]

How I wish I could go to TAM. Alas, I live in West Virginia and I cannot convince any of my friends or family to take a road trip to Vegas =(

[tstevenpaul]

I'm in PHX and it's hot in July here so it will be nice to be in cool Las Vegas the 9th-12th. (just giving myself another selling point)

[doctornoise]

lol "cool las vegas"... You should know just as well as I do that when the weather hits 110 to 120 it's kinda like getting into a crash going either 65 mph or 70 mph. Either way it sucks about the same. lol. It's usually 5 to 10 degrees cooler here in Vegas, but I mean c'mon... you really notice the difference? lol ;)

[lloyd76oswald]

I would feel right at home i guess after living in Phoenix for 15+ years.

"but its a dry heat" LOL

[anvor90]

hmm, are you coming to TAM London to?

[leporidus]

Wish I could come by. Oh well, the vids shall do.

[operacat21]

That's how I felt when I went to your show Penn, the whole audience was just awesome to talk with before and after!

[Wingdoss]

Does anyone actually say anything at these meetings? Their audience is bound to be sceptical of what they say, after all.

[flowerpt]

Oh, come now, you recently plugged Brittany Spears's song, of all things. :) Which raises the question - is Randy worth a great, great story?

[ShingoEX]

Saying you like something is different from plugging it. I don't remember him telling us to go out and buy the CD or to get concert tickets.

By your logic, saying you like ANYTHING is "plugging" it.

[flowerpt]

Saying it is the most perfect pop song in recent history is bound to get some people to seek it out. Naturally some percentage will agree, and purchase. 'Plugging' isn't an edict to purchase, it's praise to promote and/or encourage sales.

[ShingoEX]

It's just his opinion, so stop relegating it to a sales pitch.

If I say "mmm...this is a great hamburger", it's because I like it...not because I'm selling it.

[flowerpt]

My comment was strictly about plugging. You brought up going out to buy things, so the 'sales pitch' was your addition to the thread. Those are different things - try google define:plug . Plugging is promoting; a sales-pitch component is entirely optional. Penn promoted 'If You Seek Amy', so he plugged it. Unless your contention is that doing a youtube video (with wide viewership) just about a single pop song, does not count as promotion. But then, google define:promotion .

[ShingoEX]

Thew context in which he brought up "plugging" was for the purpose off getting people to go out and come to the meeting and possibly the show afterward, unlike his "plugging" of the Britney song.

That's the difference. It's all about context.

[flowerpt]

Right, and different takes on something common are the root of humor. Nothing like pedantic deconstruction to ruin a joke!

[MoRgUe27]

does penn actually run this channel or does someone else do it for him?

[TehShrimp]

see you at Teh Amazing Round-Up!

[Azrhei]

"Atheist Parenting" Annotation...I really can't wait to watch the video...I hope its up soon.

[bigchrisfrye]

man i wish i could go but the damn money is so little its hard to shit

[austinisi]

2:35

it's 2009 dumbass

[Josh111485]

He didn't know which TAM year it is. He didn't know that it's TAM 7. TAM year 7.

[austinisi]

it was a joke, lol

[neoyorke]

TAM year 7 not is it 2009

[lumpcouch]

i would like to go but i got exams in July and not enough money for the trip :(

[LORDNAG1]

wish i had mulla to pay for the trip :,,,(

[ConalCochran]

i love your bowling shirts!

[blink18jew]

i wish i could get to it, i hate being in the UK lol, one year. one year... :)

[kevbloodwilsonfan]

go to tam london in october, probably wont be as good, but might be worth it.

[blink18jew]

im thinking that, but would love to meet P&T. i will see them in vegas soon, i hope haha. :)

[legendre007]

Terrific commentary, Penn. :-)

[pitbull103]

I want to get to TAM and see that many atheists in one place. Of course, they will all probably be rapists and thieves (just kidding).

[Vanessaannehudgenn]

2!!

[Dreamerx47]

and you alredy got 6 thumbs down

[Vanessaannehudgenn]

lol i dont care

[AntaresInScorpius]

I enjoy your vids very much.