Michael Parenti -- The Myth of the Founding Fatheres 3/3

[romanophile1]

i somewhat agree with parenti but i disagree with him on republics being "democratic" clearly republics tend to be elitist as he himself points out and from reading history i know of some republics which tended to be aristocratic a la republic of venice in the end republics are just a species of oligarchy, and the only real and modern "democracy", not that "boys only rule of athens", is "local" democracy

[whoo689]

In the video, Parenti SURE seems fired up! Hm.... What speech is that video clip taken from, if I may ask??

[NaegFowleri]

@whoo689

watch?v=4Z2W-IplM54

[communistfun]

we are the only acceptable since of whats conservative, whats traditional. the only acceptable default. i mean all yall :P

[communistfun]

we are the respectable cynics

[MultiSmartass1]

Interesting point about the lack of public ratification of the Constitution and the bill of rights.

The point about America is that this country is about the illusion of choice.

The Founding Fathers had create the structure for a ruling class-property owners were the first people allowed to vote and most of the founding fathers were landowners thus the political class had to be the major economic class of the infant nation.

The common rabble-Americans as we know them-could not take part.

[FletchforFreedom]

I knew this guy was economically ignorant, but I wasn't aware that he was so unconscionably ignorant of actual history as well!

[euripideesshreds]

It is such a pity that whoever made this couldn't sync the vocal and the video. As important as this seems to me that just seems a travesty. They are so out of sync that a well picked still photo would have been better.

[NaegFowleri]

@euripideesshreds The vocal seems to be in audio-only format; the video itself is from another lecture: watch?v=4Z2W-IplM54

[CWA12]

does anyone know if parenti wrote this information in any of his books?

[jaymthegenius]

To get around the no peerage loophole they created rigid and durable social structures. Where one went to school and one's lineage are two methods of maintaining the social structure. It is upsetting to see the working-class tea party goers vote Republican for "moral reasons" when religion is only a prop to get the working-class to vote for a party that represents economic might. People complain about Obama, but he has less power than the private sector Republicans like Richard Mellon Scaife.

[DaHonestAbe]

I'm no fan of Obama at all. But Scaife, I'm beginning to think that he's a sociopath.

[brianhopkins22]

Although it would never be accepted, I think what would help is a cap on the age of permissible voters. It's insane that someone is allowed to vote past 60 years old. They're almost always too entrenched in their beliefs to care about progressive candidates. I would propose 18-46. That's 7 presidential elections, etc. After 46, let the younger generations handle things. I'm 23 by the way. I think Democrat or Republican would become meaningless with that rule in place We gotta get Independents in

[DeanCo7777]

You younger people are so arrogant, so narcisistic. Think of it like this: How much have you learned in the last year? Quite a bit no doubt. Now multiply that by 20, 30, 40 or 50, and you're saying that you know more than people who are that many years older than you? Public schools and the media have filled your heads with this progressive arrogance that sees youselves at your young ages as omnipotent and without error. When you get older you will see how foolish and dangerous that is. Not wise

[MrSalamander7]

@DeanCo7777 You bring up a good point, but I have to disagree on certain levels. It is true that with experience comes knowledge, but that does not mean a young person can't be right or that an old person can't be wrong. Young people do need to learn to be humble and open to the idea that they can be wrong, but they also do need to have confidence in their own reasoning abilities. The attitude of dismissing someone because of their age is no different than the elite dismissing the lower classes.

[Swordman85]

@DeanCo7777

Never pay attention to rats. They are degrees under us in rational scale. That's why they need movies to present rational people as "boring and friendless".

[monsterboy1985]

@DeanCo7777 well im 26, do you think you know more than I? Im young and I dont think im arrogant or narcisistic. So what nightmare are you having for you to come to a ridiculous conclusion?

[CLeoTorris]

You are 23 and you think older people are entrenched in their beliefs? How about only allowing people from 30 to 65 to vote. Younger people do not have the life experience or wisdom neccesary to make an informed vote. That would cut you out until you get some brains and respect for your elders! For all of you slower people the latter would cut out 2 thirds of Demacrats from voting and the former 2 thirds of Republicans.

[decidererer]

The woman who introduces and concludes these talks is airheadedly annoying, like some ethnic Marilyn Monroe "Happy Birthday Mr. President"...

[WSidis]

michael pawenti

[smegingbastard]

and he didn't even touch the genocide of Native Americans, the near extinction of the buffaloes, the invasion of Mexico, on and on...

[xcookiemonster88]

If 51 % of people forcing their will over the 49% is consider tyranny. lets say 15 % of people forcing their will over 85 % people isn't that consider tyranny. Republic or Democracy tyranny will always exist.

[PNACATTACKdotCOM]

Excellent post 'old' friend :)

Nice to 'see' you again :D

[guerrillamaab]

Actualy, if you WATCH the video, in 2:11 he says the constitution guaranteed a republican form of govt. so that we couldn't go into a monarchy. Also having a democracy would by it's very defenition include allowing women and blacks to vote, so there wouldn't be any slavery to speak of to begin with. Perhaps the real propaganda here is what baseless comments you typed above.

[baronofthenorth]

Typical far-left jargon which ignores much of the good it did in comparison to the other options IN THE SAME TIME PERIOD. It was by far better than any other "modern" nation. Fear of democracy is not based on trivial assumptions. One need only to look at the French Revolution to see how easily "pure democracy" becomes mob rule to see why it should be looked at with a critical eye.

[slaballinmytrunk]

actually he did say that for all its short comings it was better than what they had in Europe

[guerrillamaab]

"Typical far-left jargon which ingnores much of the good it did in comparison the other options IN THE SAME TIME PERIOD."

If you WATCH the video, about 40 sec. into he says "And having said all this let me add though, that the constitution was not without some real democratic concessions for it's time". He then goes on to list many of them including:

-No property qualifications for fed. office

-Salaries to be paid to officials (so pple other than the rich can get into office).

[guerrillamaab]

-President and all office holders to be elected for only limited terms

-No one could claim a life tenure in any office (except Supreme Court Judges and Federal Judges)

-No religious test required for qualification

-You couldn't find someone guilty of an offense w/out the benefit of a trial

-And then eventualy, congress was forced to pass the first 10 amendments, because many states agreed to ratify the constitution only on the condition that they pledge to put in a bill of rights

[guerrillamaab]

The Bill of Rights included:

-Freedom of speech

-Freedom of religion

-Freedom to assemble

-Freedom to peacefuly petition for redress of grievances

-Seperation of church and state

Plus the constitution guaranteed a republican form of government, so that we couldn't move backwards into a monarchy, by the way, this went against the wishes of about 21 out of the 55 delegates who would like some form of monarchy if they could have their way, they would have had a king.

[godscuttingyoudown]

The New World Order mandate will include human privileges not rights

1. speech is a privilege

2. worship is a privilege

3. assembly is forbidden

4. petitioning or redress is an act of treason

5. church and state are one united by out glorious emperor, ruler for life

warning free thinking is illegal any thought crime is punishable by 30-50 years in a Fema concentration camp within your state.

[CosmosPrivateer]

Very true Egamssadab,

But he does make many good points.

[mtwtdallas]

"The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson

[MarmaladeINFP]

Too bad the oppressed didn't rebel against Jefferson. I wonder what Jefferson would've thought if his slaves had rebelled or if the native americans had successfully resisted oppression. If I remember correctly, in his older age, Jefferson became less supportive of rebellion. But the ideal behind his words is still worhty. It's just too bad that he didn't live up to his own ideals.

[7jerryv7]

@mtwtdallas Parenti rightfully pointed out that the founding fathers predicted this would happen and therefore created a militia specifically to put down rebellions. The right to bare arms was designed for states to defend themselves against rebellion. Only problem is the put down popular revolutions, meaning the US has never really had a broad-based revolution.

[conneaness]

Keep putting out the true history of the "democracy" of AmeriKKKa.

[TheMessageStupid]

is that actually him speaking?

"to aviod popular uprising.." Like I said before, as it was mentioned in the book within the novel 1984... We, the people, are the enemy of the state.

[unclebanana]

Yes, that's him