Microcredit debate

[pavitravoice]

You think bankers love you and want to help you oh just look at what's going on with Goldman .money and greed is first . There should be so much regulation on these money sockets. They start with credit (the savers) like missionaries and before you know it they own your land and soul.indian organisation should donate towards the causes that will help woman economically eg buying a cow .Why India can 't help herself ,she does not need an inveder coming in .

[jakstaaa]

Check out 6:03. Some ill-concealed hostility haha. I think she was really thinking about stabbing Shiva in the heart.

[VedicIntelligentsia]

That white bitch need to shut the fuck up and mind her own business. Don't worry about India, instead, try to help those white whores in those "Girls Gone Wild" videos.

[Gracegirl87]

7.26. "Rights cannot be substituted by credit, rights need to be recognized as rights, and collective rights to the common wealth of this planet: the atmosphere, the water, the seeds, the biodiveristy. That needs a rights solution. Credit can come AFTER that rights solution has been offered."

"I think in this world, it is not rights gained from on high; rights are only real when in fact people can exercise their rights...[microcreidts] is a way for people to organize for power.."

Good debate

[dallred3]

Breakpoverty you have an interesting point. Does anyone know where these microcredit foundations post their financials on the net? Dr. Shiva is correct in saying microfinance is not a panacea... of course it isn't. But I believe it is more effective overall, dollar for dollar, than advocacy. We have been trying to legislate away poverty for how many hundreds of years? What progress have we made?

[BreakPovertyTogether]

In Africa, where we work, micro credit has mixed responses and unclear results. It is very easy to give to. I give to it. However, there are many unanswered questions. If it's so effective and self sustaining, why does it have to keep being reinvigorated by donor money? Why aren't micro financing organizations growing on retained earnings alone? If the payback is as stated 98%, why don't they post how much capital is lost each year as a cash figure rather than a loan percentage?

[prokashoni]

Dr. Shiva said "it's a solution in a Particular context!" & she gave an example of India. Let me tell you something... the problem of Third World's nations are more or less same & that is "Poverty". If Grameen's microfinancing system can work any part of the world where there is poverty, including developed nations, then it should work in India too. Poorer nations than India adopted Grameen system & they did well, why India can't? It's nothing but yours very own problem! Pls don't blame others.

[chiricua4]

Vandana Shiva is on point with her arguement. Microcredit loans are not the panacea of poverty. They do help if used in the right context but, Shiva brings up a good point about the privitizaiton of basic neccesities such as water, increasing the price causing it to become and unaffordable luxury. Microcredit loans can not fix this problem this is a problem with the policies being implemented on poor people by corporations.

[geraboldy]

these big corporations and banks cant stop fuking with the poor people , trying to keep them in poverty in anyway possible, that is their strategy to try to look as if they are doing a good action but at the end it will just impoverish more people and give more power to the rich over the poor, what a shame

[hamidmushtaq]

very good point geraboldy! I totally agree with you and Vandana Shiva. She is really talking logically. These moneylending bastards, try to sugarcoat their evil business. That white bitch, is talking about good or bad use of a knife. I ask her, does any capitalist businessman think about the borrower? never! Look at Muhammad Younus. He has earned hell alot of money from poor, plus got nobel prize and is now getting into politics.

[zsbrocaveli]

For instance, take the "clean water" example. Yeah sounds very dramatic "right to clean water, credit cant fix that!" uh.. except it CAN. That's what happened in the developed world, you think Columbus discovered America with water-pipes pre-installed? With correctly functioning credit markets, not only will competition lower the price of water, but the massive boom in the economy will put more money in the hands of the PEOPLE and let them do with the money as they wish.

Think about it:

[geraboldy]

The other astonishing misinformation you are receiving is that the "lenders" arent to blame.

It is ridiculess for you to sudjest or imply that the Misapropriation of funds since the end of ww2 to the 3.000.000.000 people isnt up for scrutiny. 1 is the number of billions that live on 1 dollar a day.10 million is the number of children that die each year because of the "lenders".

something rich dad didnt tell u.

[dallred3]

Speaking of misinformation...

What is your source for the "10 million is the number of children that die each year?..."

I think too often people confuse FOR PROFIT banks, who have seen the success of socially conscious microlenders (ie. Grameen bank) and try to replicate it at the for profit level. That model doesn't work, and it doesn't accomplish the objective microlending was invented to achieve.

[geraboldy]

Speaking of reference "Gaia planing for world managment " and the figure stated is 7 million children a year.

hey Dallred3 the new banking is OBVIOUSLY a good idea any ideas on how your gonna keep the bank out of Rockefuckers hands..

I guess not ? lets set them up so the big bad WTO , WB IMF can come and "Knock em down"

[dallred3]

Your post is a little jumbled... I am having a hard time understanding what point you are trying to make.

[zsbrocaveli]

As always was, and always will be, what the borrower does after he accepts the credit is HIS responsibility.

Stop blaming the lender for what the borrower does with the money. If someone has a gambling problem and keeps borrowing money, it's their problem. If someone is a fucking retard and keeps failing in business and keeps borrowing money, it's THEIR PROBLEM.

the indian woman is eloquent, but dangerously so: listen to her arguments closely, she isn't really backing up her arguments

[geraboldy]

In your instance it is a compeling lack of undrestanding/education about the way the Imf and world bank run the credit markets around the world.example granted: in Jamaica the word bank refused a loan for jamaican farmers to grow there own crops by not apropriating funds for farming equipment. This caused a monopoly on the food market because the World bank does give credit to American farmers. Also through subsidies.

[hamidmushtaq]

All moneylenders and those who support moneylenders, will rot in hell forever!

[cluedout]

i heard Dr. Shiva speak at my uni, she is brilliant.

[nawkglobal]

I agree that micro-credit isn't the solution for everything but it does give people an option that normally would be withheld from them.

[manochelva]

@nawkglobal

out o theas discussion one is clear .that money whether it is micro or macro has created these evil system that every one who rely on it became a spiritual prisnor who never alow to see the true freedom.these any financial methods doesnt give any final solutoion for the future.As vandada explains we have to leave this and seee complete different way s to find a solution...we need so many vandanas to make this happend.any way we have to begin it now...

lets start ....

[nouseno]

Looking into interest part of these micro loans will be a research topic...

[WESTCOASTLATIN]

these big corporations and banks cant stop fuking with the poor people , trying to keep them in poverty in anyway possible, that is their strategy to try to look as if they are doing a good action but at the end it will just impoverish more people and give more power to the rich over the poor, what a shame

[aburashdan]

who is going to ensure the right of existence for the teeming millions who are going to outgrow their habitat in the developing world in the next century? i guess the developed world with their surplus land will come up with the solution.