Discovering Religion: Ep 10 - Neanderthal

[Pagweb]

At the end of the clip. You're not using the correct usage of the phrase "Begs the question".

[DiscoveringReligion]

@Pagweb

Yeah, I'm not using it in the sense of a logical fallacy. I just mean it raises the question.

[websnarf]

You should probably put some updated notes or something in this video -- we, in fact, *did* interbreed with Neanderthal, as a paper that came out later in 2010 by the same group you referred to showed.

[bigglyguy]

@websnarf Yes but the point of that paper is that 2 distinct species interbred, rather than either being a descendant of the other or merely a different race. We show about 4% neanderthal DNA in Whites and Asians, though not Blacks. It would be like a bonobo and chimp mating today.

[Benitotalon]

@DiscoveringReligion

One interpretation could be that Cain and Abel were not literal people, but species Homo Sapiens and Neandertals. Cain being the crop bearing Sapiens and Abel being the mainly carnivorous Neandertal. And in the end, the competition with Sapiens may very well have been the end of Neandertal, or 'Cain' 'murdering' 'Abel.

Far stretch, but one way to look at that particular story. And also 'Adam and Eve' could just be meant as a common ancestor to both hominids.

[Fugettaboutit]

@Benitotalon Who could converse with reptiles, apparently. ;-)

[Benitotalon]

One interpretation could be that Cain and Abel were not literal people, but species Homo Sapiens and Neandertals. Cain being the crop bearing Sapiens and Abel being the mainly carnivorous Neandertal. And in the end, the competition with Sapiens may very well have been the end of Neandertal, or 'Cain' 'murdering' 'Abel.

Far stretch, but one way to look at that particular story. And also 'Adam and Eve' could just be meant as a common ancestor to both hominids.

[Moontanman]

This video keeps hanging up at around 04:50 or so every time i watch it, is it my computer is it the video?

[Moontanman]

When I was a little boy I wondered who Cain and Abel married? I remember being really puzzled by that, lol

[8698gil]

@Moontanman I used to drive my parents crazy asking them questions like that, who did Cain marry, how did they get all the animals on the ark, and so on. I never did get a good answer, which is why when I went to school and learned about evolution, it made perfect sense to me.

[NateXzX]

I nostalgia'd so hard when the Flintstones came on. . .

[eastjones]

I am like god because I like rack of lamb better than dumb old vegetables too

[iNarbage]

So, how did they get body's adapted to cold climates? I thought hominoids were from Africa? y'know? Hotter?

[javaskin]

Best part so far: Many new arguments to use against bible proponents.

[Velvetroomdj]

Science and evolution wins and makes complete sense because it makes "sense" whereas religion without one single evidence and full of bullshit loses because it's 'made up' by ruthless men!

[MrFaisoly]

If americans descend from the british, how come there's still british people? YOU LOST AGAIN DARWINISTS !

[AtmadeepPOTF]

If those Neanderthal minds evolved into those like Einstein's and Planck's, I feel scared thinking of what our minds will evolve into after that extent of time...

LOL, only joking. The evolution of the human brain is quite amazing. If only I could look into the future and have a glance of what my genes have for store in 100,000 years...

[greyman000]

It should be pointed out that it recently (last year) has been discovered that non-african humans have roughly 4% Neanderthal-DNA in their genome. This suggest that fertile hybrids was possible and that all non-africans have such hybrids somewhere among their ancient ancestors.

This would make Neanderthals the same species as us, but still a distinct subspecies. Your point still stands however, as Neanderthals can't be our direct ancestors. This is more of a footnote, but and interesting one.

[lordblazer]

I thought we killed the neanderthals out. seems like we as homo sapiens are a species of assholes xD I wonder about the Homo Erectus though.. Also it seems the Neanderthal was more conservative and less ambitious than we are.

[drbarry00]

if humans thought that indians in america were savages even though they were the same species I can only imagine what they thought of neanderthals when they first came into contact with them. They ate only meat, poo'ed in their caves, and were probably retarded. Its not suprising they went extinct on contact with modern humans

[karstd]

6:20 you say that their noses were larger with more capillaries and thicker mucus to warm the air as it comes in... This is false. Their noses were larger so the air would be cooled to lower their body temperature so that they did not sweat during physically demanding activities, which would cause them to freeze once their body temperature lowered after the activity level lowered, blood flow decreased, and body temperature along with it. Your argument still works though.. Just clearing that up.

[DiscoveringReligion]

@karstd

Im not sure if your statement is correct. From what I've learned in anatomy and physiology our lungs cannot handle freezing cold air, and if the air temperature is not properly adjusted before interacting with our alveoli it causes lung strain and perhaps even damage. Furthermore, the air temperature during the Ice Age was already below freezing, so it wouldnt be physically possible for neanderthal's nose to have made the air even colder.

[karstd]

@DiscoveringReligion The old belief was that it warmed the air. Newer theories suggest large surface area and increased blood flow to the nose would have cooled the blood running through the area and lowered body temperature during high activity like the ears of a jack rabbit. The mucus lining kept them protected from the cold when they weren't chasing prey.

[DiscoveringReligion]

@karstd

Thats very interesting, I have not heard that explanation before, but it makes sense. Thanks a lot for the comment. :)

[fsmtdaler]

@DiscoveringReligion I grew up in South Dakota with 45 below zero temperatures. Nobody went outside then, even to save the cattle and hogs! 20, even 30 below, sometimes, but not when its cold as hell out! Well, sometimes it gets hot as hell, too! Don't know how those folds in Arabia handle 125 degree heat either... ;-( Although while in Morocco in '73, I did wear a jalava, which was well suited to insulation from the sun. The nose adapts to heat and cold like finch's beak

[ceallaigh49]

A nit-picking point, but Neanderthal refers to the Neander Valley where the first fossils of these hominids were discovered. "Thal" means valley in German, and it's pronounced "tal", not "thal". Additionally, while they were known to have inhabited a cave or two, they also were quite skilled at constructing animal skin yurts with mammoth tusk frameworks.

[nicazzo]

Neanderthal kind of remind me of dwarfs

[alixinthemiddle]

i often wonder what life would be like if neanderthals were still alive

[NevilleRhysBarnes]

Excellent video. I would have liked it to have addressed the issue of where the Neanderthals came from. I assume there was an earlier wave of migrations from Africa, post the 660,000 year divergence, but I can't find any discussions of this anywhere.

[DiscoveringReligion]

@NevilleRhysBarnes

Please watch the next episode. :)

[NevilleRhysBarnes]

@DiscoveringReligion I watched: it didn't really cover my question. I suppose I'm confused about exactly which wave of migration contributed to which population. There is talk of a "recent" wave, so presumeably there was an earlier wave, but your video seemed to suggest a single wave, of Ergaster coming out of Africa, evolving into Heidelbergensis, which then evolved into Neanderthalensis and Sapiens.

[DiscoveringReligion]

@NevilleRhysBarnes

Hmmm, no, Neanderthal didnt evolve into Spaiens, although recent genetic research suggests some of their pop might have been incorporated into ours. There were several migrations of out of Africa, but those lines were not successful. My focus was on the populations of Heidelbergensis that evolved in isolation, becoming Neanderthal in Europe and Cro-Magnon in Africa. After the last Ice Age these two pops could finally meet, but Neanderthal died out due to various reasons.

[NevilleRhysBarnes]

@DiscoveringReligion Yes, the evidence for interbreeding between Neanderthals and Sapiens is interesting. You cover the effect of the Himalayas on the African savanahs, which I hadn't known about. I'm interested in correlating events to the 100,000 yr glacial/ interglacial cycle. Apparently, at the peak of the last glacial, Ethiopia was only a few miles from The Yemen. Pops could have crossed the Red Sea and travelled along the base of the Arabian peninsula, and thence into Asia.

[javonne]

@ 1:43 the baby in Eve's arm looks like Christopher Hitchens XD

[Offensivebunny]

I am wholeheartedly enjoying this series.

Thank you very much for posting!!

[LiveReligiously]

professional, thx !!!

[voidstuff]

7:56 ... can someone explain the graph?

[TheForwardGaze]

Is it still thought that neanderthal and humans interbred? I read something about a skeleton being found with characteristics from both species.

[drumrnva]

I'm really digging this series. Very well presented.

[gargamel6699]

The bible does not say that Cain n' Abel were the 1st naturally born humans. The bible says that god made man, and later he made the garden and Adam and Eve yadda yadda yadda. When Cain killed his brother he was banned from the garden and would be "hunted down". By who? Evry one else around. I don't understand how people can get this wrong.

Of course, that's if you believe the fairy tales.

[DiscoveringReligion]

@gargamel6699

It is not important if Cane and Able or some other group of people were the very first naturally born human beings. The point is that the Bible claims the generation living directly after the Creation event, when Adam and Eve were still alive, had advanced technology such as farming and animal domestication, which actually belonged to the Bronze Age. Therefore, the Bible claims the Stone Age hunter-gatherer societies, such as Neanderthal and Cro-magnon, never actually existed.

[gargamel6699]

@DiscoveringReligion

I understand, and agree with you. What I'm trying to say is that bible pushers, claim that Adam was the first human, and the bible never says that.

[CreedChrist]

@DiscoveringReligion Neanderthals were not humans..

[8698gil]

@DiscoveringReligion I've noticed that myself. Who taught Cain and Abel how to hunt and farm, herd sheep, and build homes? Doesn't make sense, does it? Did god give them lessons?

[gargamel6699]

@gargamel6699

I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. It's just that I got back to reading the bible as toilet material and this time I started from page 1. And that's one of the first things I noticed. Adam and Eve were never claimed to be the 1st, yet creationists keep with the silly 6k year timeline because they can't even read.

[yellowlynx]

@gargamel6699 Are you trying to fool people ?

Genesis 4: 11 Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.She said, “With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel. (NIV)

[gargamel6699]

@yellowlynx

But Adam and Eve where NOT THE FIRST HUMANS. read your bible. They are the first mentiones, but supposedly god made man first. But not Adam. Adam came later, after creation was complete.

[dontrililikepackies1]

@gargamel6699

He does say, In the beginning he created adam and eve. He dosnt really mention the others. Maybe then life allready existed before adam and even.. but not human, these ape like people. But why? hmm and why no mention of them in the bible. im seeking the truth. God help us all if it's Islam! because according to them if your not a Muslim you WILL burn in hell. Nice. We need to dig deeper.

[XanatharEye]

2:00 wow you're cynical. makes sense to me... Genesis refers to a "garden" where none of those things would have been necessary, goes on to describe the world wide deluge all your proud geologists describe, and then goes on to describe the advent of agriculture and all that just exactly like you said it, except the Bible said it a lot longer before science quantified it....

[llGemini]

Flintstones celebrates their 50th year anniversary today on television (September 30, 1960 to April 1, 1966 on ABC).

[fisherguzzi]

I had the lock up issue with the video as well as noted by flame roller.

I really like this series as well. I wish though instead of post notes when errors are made the video was corrected. This perhaps shows my ignorance of the effort you went though to make it and how difficult that would be. It appears you make far fewer mistakes in science than religion, so is your background science? Hope I can work thru this video freeze.

[flameroller]

I had to skip from ~5:00 to ~6:11 to continue because of the damned buffering issue I always have with youtube (despite having a 250 mpbs connection!) . Anyone else experiencing really bad load times and lockups? Frustrating when you want to watch something you have been enjoying. Great video series!

[Thulgore]

The story of the neanderthals always makes me sad. Imagine how much different things would be if they had survived as well. The idea of being the last of your kind on the planet is well.........sad.

[yxrcbszg]

Neanderthal DNA was Genetic Modified by Extraterrestrial life

~look up Sumerian creation Myth~

[kitrana]

10 or so episodes in and i stll cant figurew out what that third group of boys/men are doing in the intro

[uprockbiddy]

I started watching the series last night and now just finished watching this episode. I honestly don't want the series to end!! It's the most interesting, brain feeding piece of "entertainment" I've came across in a loooong loong time!

I don't know if it matters but sir, you have all my respect for what you have done. THANK YOU and please don't stop!

[Tespri]

I did heard that Neanderthals were able to breed with homo sapiens, and that europeans and asian population holds some of genes neanderthals had. So instead disapearing, perhaps they did just mix with homo sapiens?

[ergonomover]

Had to pause at 3:50 with the start of the theme-song; the images of the devoted masses plus "everybody wants to rule the world" seem so appropriate a message.

Plus I always liked that song. Great stuff!

[koulac]

Not to sound shrill or anything, but hybrids are a might difficult in separate species but rather indicative of it being a taxonomic sub-species. I only say this based on the same report indicating that there were some genetic crossovers present in "non-african" ancestors of an early cross between the sub-species.

I know this may seem trivial. I may very well be incorrect, but I thought it would be good to hear your comments on the matter.

[ahmology]

u got my subscribtion is there away to donate ... let the truth out !! if religious ppl would do that to propagate falsehood why not do this to propagate truth??

[AXSofHFDS]

we came from aliens, duh.

[IzzyBunneh]

it's funny how if you go to any religious person's vid, you have hundreds of thumbs down and very few thumbs up... but if you come and look at these or most atheist vids, you'll find next to none thumbs down, much less than the thumbs up on theist vids... and allot of thumbs down are due to votebots

meaning, atheists watch videos of opposing opinions much more often than the religious do? :o

[AquaticApe1]

@IzzyBunneh Interesting hypothesis. Of course atheists have the freedom within their own minds to explore other ideas, thus the name "freethinker". What I find shocking about your statement however is that you actually ran across a religious person's channel who's ratings and comments weren't disabled :)

[hatsudai69]

heard, at least 4% percent of our (europeans) dna comes from neanderthals. svante pääbo of max planck proved it!

[officialaisa]

@hatsudai69 Thank you for your report! We have to study and meditate about this great discovery!!

[Paulwhoisvegan]

6:31 - 6:33 I have to disagree!

[websnarf]

Woah woah woah!

Neanderthals did not do cave paintings! Those were done by "Cormagnon" or essentially, "Homo sapiens". There is a common confusion here. Cromagnon and Neanderthals coexisted for several thousand years in europe, and it is in that overlapping time that cave paintings are first seen. But they were created by Cromagnons.

(The rest of this video was perfect, though ...)

[DiscoveringReligion]

@websnarf

I apologize for the mistake. The paintings were not made by Neanderthal, although they were found in caves Neanderthal once inhabited. Thank you for the correction. I discuss the takeover of Neanderthal settlements by Cromagnon in episode 12: "Arrival of Man".

[websnarf]

@DiscoveringReligion: Yeah, I just finished going through your videos. Its a good presentation and I can confirm everything that I know (mostly the evolution stuff) concurs. The biblical chronology was very educational for me. I just thought it would be a pity to let this one minor error in the sea of good information spoil things. You can imagine how a creationist might like to seize upon it ("those evolutionist materialists can't even get their own story straight ...")

[DiscoveringReligion]

Yeah, I wouldnt put it past many creationists. But to be fair, even though Neanderthal may not have been responsible, the painting were produced by "cavemen" -- a term that can be applied to any cave-dwelling hominid, including Cromagnon. Despite which human species was responsible, the fact remains the paintings are at least 30k y/o and produced during an era where early man (including both Neanderthal and Cromagnon) were hunter-gatherers -- not the farmers and shepherd the Bible describes.

[eyeinthesky75]

Nightmares on Wax (I think Carboot Soul/ smoker delight)

[Hanakoa12]

I like your series, What is that soothing background music that you use?

[DiscoveringReligion]

I appreciate it! The music is by...

Artist: Llewellyn

Album: Reiki

Song: Inner Voice