Also Jodan is a great Kamae. You cover certain areas while exposing others. It's a whole new strategy that works on timing, opportunity, and being threatening. You have to play your opponent and make him react and find the perfect chance to strike. There isn't a lot of waza you can do from Jodan; you're always swinging down.
The big advantage of Jodan is the reach. You can hit from greater distance. Plus most Chudan players have a hard time gauging distance without tip-to-tip swords.
Power is only one of the reasons you kiai, and in kendo, that's usually not why you do it. You can also use it for intimidation. Another reason is to gather spirit. Sometimes during a test for a new rank, judges will award the person with the most spirit (read: the person who was the loudest :-P) Also, in kendo, you have to kiai every time you strike, calling the part you are hitting.
they are using power. they're just not using it in their hands. their power is in their hara (gut). that is is also where the kiai (scream) comes from.
I know it's jodan. :-P It's just that in chudan, you can easily defend men if need be, but in jodan, You are constantly defending men, but who cares when kote is such an easy strike for the opponent?
Maybe it's just that I like hitting kote in general, and seem to look for that strike. :-P
You can be just as aggressive from chudan as you can from jodan. It's just that jodan is a lot riskier. I always have felt that chudan is proper form. A calmer, more relaxed opponent is a lot more threatening than one who is always on the offensive. Chudan has so many advantages, fake outs, tsuki strikes, small quick attacks, kote-men combinations...it just goes on and on. Not to mention that Gohonme Kata is an easy defense against a jodan attacker.
IMO the fundamental difference between chudan and jodan is the chance to effectively use oji-waza. From chudan your "strategy can vary from the shikake side to the oji side with ease and in a balanced way, while from jodan you have a wider choice of shikake waza you can use. I think that as always in kendo it comes down to who is able to read, and use his lecture of the opponent and one, in a more efficient way.
then i would advise you not to use it. in jodan you defend nothing. to defend in jodan is to not grasp the spirit of the kamae. jodan is an offensive stance. some even call it an aggressive stance. ideally there is no defense in kendo at all. a well timed offense is always best.
@rclarked I'd love to hear you say that to my sensei's face haha! He loves defense, but he's practiced it, so he's good at it. Sure a well timed offense is good in some cases, but not others. The key is to be fearless, and men aiuchi is just one of those tactics that uses that. Men aiuchi is offense based. Defense, though it doesn't seem like it, is just as fearless, because you have to defend at the right moment for it to work, which usually is right before your opponent's shinai connects.
@rclarked There's no "this is the way to do it right." in Kendo. If there was, Shoudai wouldn't be in jodan. He would be in chudan because that's what was "proper." I didn't say it wasn't right, I was just saying that I don't like it, personally, as I work from chudan while in a match.
How old are you? Do you understand the concept of the word "ideally" . By the way , in kendo, there are right and wrong ways . This is the reason we go to the dojo to learn. Lastly your whisper of a threat is bad kendo. Did your sensei teach you that ? I hope not.
I am 23, and please don't talk down to me like I don't understand what I am talking about. I chose my words poorly, and I apologize, but I was joking, not threatening. However, I am speaking as someone who does kendo, and yes, there are right and wrong ways, but they have changed over time. Traditionally, that stance would be "poor," much like both of them taking one hand off the shinai, as they do multiple times during the video. I have been taught traditionally, therefore practice that form.
There are 5 Common kamae in kendo. Jodan no kamae is on one of those 5. Today's kendo is comprised of different styles drawn from different ryu. Notice that you don't find dojo advertising themselves as a particular style of kendo. that is because long ago those various styles were incorporated into one. Jodan is not and never was a poor kamae. You can't think like a chudan kendoka and try to understand or even really properly comment on jodan.
I'm curious . What, in your mind , qualifies jodan as a poor kamae? The whole point of the development of kendo and the bogu was to allow fencers to attack without fear of death. We know that if you attack with abandon with a shinken, likely someone will die and little learning will be passed on. The idea of kendo is to develop the spirit that would eventually be taken into a duel or battle live or die. Just because you choose not to use jodan does not mean it is a poor kamae.
It is not only my opinion but many kendoka will agree,that if you are worried about getting your kote hit, as you suggested previously then you are definitely not cut out for jodan no kamae . As i said before one should be focused on cutting your opponent and not worrying about his or her men, kote, do or tsuki dare. That is the essence of jodan and kendo as a whole. I wonder what you must think of the other 3 kamae. Because each of them are even less defensive. Are they poor also?
Yes, there are 5 main kamae in kendo. But you don't see many people walking up to their opponent in hasso. How I was taught was that jodan is an attack stance, not something to sit in for an entire match. Chudan is where things come from, and where things end. You don't start the match from chudan for nothing. I use jodan for attacking, yes. It's how you attack. But to stand in jodan, instead of chudan, as your common kamae isn't the traditional kendo that I was taught.
you still don't understand the essence of jodan. you should read " The Unfettered Mind " it might help you to grasp the nature of jodan. it explains the meaning of fudoshin. all kamae are for attacking. otherwise chudan kendoka would never score a point . so if you use jodan for attacking , what do you use chudan for?
I was taught a different way, its not going to be the same for both of us. you -can- attack from all the kamae, but usually you are coming from your kamae to jodan. Also, if you believe that all kamae are for attacking, then how do you attack from wakigamae? Or Hasso? or even gedan? If you believe that taking the offensive is more in the spirit of kendo, then you should study more Kata, as the attacker is always the one who dies. Sometimes, a good defender will defeat a fast aggressor.
Kata is about counter attack not defense that is why the aggressor always loses . There is a difference between counter attack and defense. In kenjutsu we use all 5 kamae . Take gedan for example. I was fighting against jodan in gedan last week . Hasso is really just a modified form of jodan. when you see someone make a cut from hasso you'll know. There is a famous scene from the seven samurai that illustrates how to counterattack with wakigamae. its not todays kendo but i have seen it done
by a 7th dan sensei from Japan. Seme is not only done from the kensen. We all should study more kata. But i think you confuse counterattack with defense. Seme is intended to draw the aggressor to make the first cut then the kendoka must find the suki and make his or her own cut. That is counterattack not defense. Back on the subject of jodan.. Are you familiar with the term 'Hi no Kamae' ?
I see the difference now. Kendo and Kenjustu have different ideas and styles. In kendo we generally use 3. Chudan, Jodan, and Gedan. General, offense, and defense, respectively. This is not to say that you can't attack or defend from one that is commonly the opposite, but you take more risks being in Jodan then you do in Chudan.
Besides, I do not confuse counterattack with defense. A counterattack is a defense. You have to defend the initial attack, in some way, to counter it. Whether it involves contact of the shinai by deflection or blocking, or just getting out of the way. it is still a defensive move.
no you don't have to defend an attack. you simply have to hit your opponent first and properly . this is kendo . defense is protecting or blocking . counter attacking is hitting your opponent, hopefully first. there is a definite difference. people often get hit just after they have scored a point against their opponent. but that strike is meaningless is terms of shiai. those people that get hit after they've scored have committed to the cut and not thought of their own "safety" or defense.
It is very possible to attack from waki, gedan, and hasso. In Kata 4, waki is a slash from lower to high, and Hasso is a slash from high to low. (From shoulder area to waist area). The two people are in a stalemate and thus, they switch to Jodan. They could have both launched an attack but it could have ended with both dying.
Gedan was used as a thrust from low to high, impaling your opponent. Not ideal for Kendo.
I have no problem with jodan as a stance itself for certain parts of a shiai. I think you took my original comment as being that I don't like the jodan stance at all. That's not what I meant. I just don't like the kendoka who stand in Jodan for a prolonged period of time during a match. They move into Jodan without any reason for doing so, which is, in my opinion, poor kendo.
to return to chudan after taking jodan is a sign of weakness. Kendoka truly dedicated to jodan take jodan then stay there. some may not start there. unless they become weak they will end in jodan. most jodan stay in jodan. they may practice chudan from time to time in the dojo, but most commit to jodan and remain there. they move into jodan because they choose to . what reason would they have for not doing so.
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Ardian1899 6 months ago
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Ardian1899 6 months ago
Also Jodan is a great Kamae. You cover certain areas while exposing others. It's a whole new strategy that works on timing, opportunity, and being threatening. You have to play your opponent and make him react and find the perfect chance to strike. There isn't a lot of waza you can do from Jodan; you're always swinging down.
The big advantage of Jodan is the reach. You can hit from greater distance. Plus most Chudan players have a hard time gauging distance without tip-to-tip swords.
Dantefex13 7 months ago
That kote sounded like tsuba to me..
kendoka82 1 year ago
I like it! :)
cosmicburrito2 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
They are too rigid. Kendo is garbage.
TheSenseofTouch 1 year ago
why do they scream like that if they arent using power?
ItzDaTwiGGajD 2 years ago
most likely, because they are trying to fake birds.
ZtefaNNN 2 years ago
Power is only one of the reasons you kiai, and in kendo, that's usually not why you do it. You can also use it for intimidation. Another reason is to gather spirit. Sometimes during a test for a new rank, judges will award the person with the most spirit (read: the person who was the loudest :-P) Also, in kendo, you have to kiai every time you strike, calling the part you are hitting.
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
they are using power. they're just not using it in their hands. their power is in their hara (gut). that is is also where the kiai (scream) comes from.
rclarked 2 years ago
OH! That's Yamanaka sensei among judges!
mu4shi 2 years ago
I don't like Shoudai's stance. I know it's a style, but having a Kote open like that just bothers me.
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
it's jodan. ;)
you abandon all defence for attack
shinji2oo4 2 years ago 2
I know it's jodan. :-P It's just that in chudan, you can easily defend men if need be, but in jodan, You are constantly defending men, but who cares when kote is such an easy strike for the opponent?
Maybe it's just that I like hitting kote in general, and seem to look for that strike. :-P
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
haha, the main thing to jodan is that you don't defend . if you do, you aren't aggressive enough for jodan. ;o
shinji2oo4 2 years ago
You can be just as aggressive from chudan as you can from jodan. It's just that jodan is a lot riskier. I always have felt that chudan is proper form. A calmer, more relaxed opponent is a lot more threatening than one who is always on the offensive. Chudan has so many advantages, fake outs, tsuki strikes, small quick attacks, kote-men combinations...it just goes on and on. Not to mention that Gohonme Kata is an easy defense against a jodan attacker.
Personal opinion, yes. But I'm stubborn. :-P
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
IMO the fundamental difference between chudan and jodan is the chance to effectively use oji-waza. From chudan your "strategy can vary from the shikake side to the oji side with ease and in a balanced way, while from jodan you have a wider choice of shikake waza you can use. I think that as always in kendo it comes down to who is able to read, and use his lecture of the opponent and one, in a more efficient way.
ZtefaNNN 2 years ago
then i would advise you not to use it. in jodan you defend nothing. to defend in jodan is to not grasp the spirit of the kamae. jodan is an offensive stance. some even call it an aggressive stance. ideally there is no defense in kendo at all. a well timed offense is always best.
rclarked 2 years ago
@rclarked I'd love to hear you say that to my sensei's face haha! He loves defense, but he's practiced it, so he's good at it. Sure a well timed offense is good in some cases, but not others. The key is to be fearless, and men aiuchi is just one of those tactics that uses that. Men aiuchi is offense based. Defense, though it doesn't seem like it, is just as fearless, because you have to defend at the right moment for it to work, which usually is right before your opponent's shinai connects.
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
@rclarked There's no "this is the way to do it right." in Kendo. If there was, Shoudai wouldn't be in jodan. He would be in chudan because that's what was "proper." I didn't say it wasn't right, I was just saying that I don't like it, personally, as I work from chudan while in a match.
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
How old are you? Do you understand the concept of the word "ideally" . By the way , in kendo, there are right and wrong ways . This is the reason we go to the dojo to learn. Lastly your whisper of a threat is bad kendo. Did your sensei teach you that ? I hope not.
rclarked 2 years ago
I am 23, and please don't talk down to me like I don't understand what I am talking about. I chose my words poorly, and I apologize, but I was joking, not threatening. However, I am speaking as someone who does kendo, and yes, there are right and wrong ways, but they have changed over time. Traditionally, that stance would be "poor," much like both of them taking one hand off the shinai, as they do multiple times during the video. I have been taught traditionally, therefore practice that form.
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
There are 5 Common kamae in kendo. Jodan no kamae is on one of those 5. Today's kendo is comprised of different styles drawn from different ryu. Notice that you don't find dojo advertising themselves as a particular style of kendo. that is because long ago those various styles were incorporated into one. Jodan is not and never was a poor kamae. You can't think like a chudan kendoka and try to understand or even really properly comment on jodan.
rclarked 2 years ago
I'm curious . What, in your mind , qualifies jodan as a poor kamae? The whole point of the development of kendo and the bogu was to allow fencers to attack without fear of death. We know that if you attack with abandon with a shinken, likely someone will die and little learning will be passed on. The idea of kendo is to develop the spirit that would eventually be taken into a duel or battle live or die. Just because you choose not to use jodan does not mean it is a poor kamae.
rclarked 2 years ago
It is not only my opinion but many kendoka will agree,that if you are worried about getting your kote hit, as you suggested previously then you are definitely not cut out for jodan no kamae . As i said before one should be focused on cutting your opponent and not worrying about his or her men, kote, do or tsuki dare. That is the essence of jodan and kendo as a whole. I wonder what you must think of the other 3 kamae. Because each of them are even less defensive. Are they poor also?
rclarked 2 years ago
Yes, there are 5 main kamae in kendo. But you don't see many people walking up to their opponent in hasso. How I was taught was that jodan is an attack stance, not something to sit in for an entire match. Chudan is where things come from, and where things end. You don't start the match from chudan for nothing. I use jodan for attacking, yes. It's how you attack. But to stand in jodan, instead of chudan, as your common kamae isn't the traditional kendo that I was taught.
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
you still don't understand the essence of jodan. you should read " The Unfettered Mind " it might help you to grasp the nature of jodan. it explains the meaning of fudoshin. all kamae are for attacking. otherwise chudan kendoka would never score a point . so if you use jodan for attacking , what do you use chudan for?
rclarked 2 years ago
I was taught a different way, its not going to be the same for both of us. you -can- attack from all the kamae, but usually you are coming from your kamae to jodan. Also, if you believe that all kamae are for attacking, then how do you attack from wakigamae? Or Hasso? or even gedan? If you believe that taking the offensive is more in the spirit of kendo, then you should study more Kata, as the attacker is always the one who dies. Sometimes, a good defender will defeat a fast aggressor.
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
Kata is about counter attack not defense that is why the aggressor always loses . There is a difference between counter attack and defense. In kenjutsu we use all 5 kamae . Take gedan for example. I was fighting against jodan in gedan last week . Hasso is really just a modified form of jodan. when you see someone make a cut from hasso you'll know. There is a famous scene from the seven samurai that illustrates how to counterattack with wakigamae. its not todays kendo but i have seen it done
rclarked 2 years ago
by a 7th dan sensei from Japan. Seme is not only done from the kensen. We all should study more kata. But i think you confuse counterattack with defense. Seme is intended to draw the aggressor to make the first cut then the kendoka must find the suki and make his or her own cut. That is counterattack not defense. Back on the subject of jodan.. Are you familiar with the term 'Hi no Kamae' ?
rclarked 2 years ago
I see the difference now. Kendo and Kenjustu have different ideas and styles. In kendo we generally use 3. Chudan, Jodan, and Gedan. General, offense, and defense, respectively. This is not to say that you can't attack or defend from one that is commonly the opposite, but you take more risks being in Jodan then you do in Chudan.
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
Besides, I do not confuse counterattack with defense. A counterattack is a defense. You have to defend the initial attack, in some way, to counter it. Whether it involves contact of the shinai by deflection or blocking, or just getting out of the way. it is still a defensive move.
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
no you don't have to defend an attack. you simply have to hit your opponent first and properly . this is kendo . defense is protecting or blocking . counter attacking is hitting your opponent, hopefully first. there is a definite difference. people often get hit just after they have scored a point against their opponent. but that strike is meaningless is terms of shiai. those people that get hit after they've scored have committed to the cut and not thought of their own "safety" or defense.
rclarked 2 years ago
@TakeruSTakomi
It is very possible to attack from waki, gedan, and hasso. In Kata 4, waki is a slash from lower to high, and Hasso is a slash from high to low. (From shoulder area to waist area). The two people are in a stalemate and thus, they switch to Jodan. They could have both launched an attack but it could have ended with both dying.
Gedan was used as a thrust from low to high, impaling your opponent. Not ideal for Kendo.
Dantefex13 7 months ago
I have no problem with jodan as a stance itself for certain parts of a shiai. I think you took my original comment as being that I don't like the jodan stance at all. That's not what I meant. I just don't like the kendoka who stand in Jodan for a prolonged period of time during a match. They move into Jodan without any reason for doing so, which is, in my opinion, poor kendo.
TakeruSTakomi 2 years ago
to return to chudan after taking jodan is a sign of weakness. Kendoka truly dedicated to jodan take jodan then stay there. some may not start there. unless they become weak they will end in jodan. most jodan stay in jodan. they may practice chudan from time to time in the dojo, but most commit to jodan and remain there. they move into jodan because they choose to . what reason would they have for not doing so.
rclarked 2 years ago
goud kendo
jbdsame 2 years ago
They still had there problems in creating clear openings. A lot of the time it looks like slapping for points.
hatamoto68 2 years ago