@Rufusd15 same year and price range you can get a subaru wrx (AWD) witch i would recommend or (RWD)G35,350z,rx8 i think its ugly but its a good driver or if you want to stick with FWD you can get a VW GTI
It confuses me how this question is still relevant as it was asked when power-steering was invented. Manly men saw power-steering as an unfair advantage over the guys who could go fast without it. Power-steering won because, when you think about it, what are cars? Weren't they built to be a technological advantage over the horse?
That said people still drive old muscle cars, and even horses, so if that's you do you, but some day cars will drive themselves faster than you and that's awesome.
Traction/stability control and ABS are good tools. They can actually help drivers learn a car limit safely but only if the driver knows when these systems intervene(i.e. the pulsing of the brake pedal when ABS activates). If a driver can learn to drive at the cars limit without activating these system they will be a much better driver.
Making macro adjustments to speed and acceleration rates with the manual transmission can make anyone a better driver and moving in traffic a more mindful experience. The feeling of a perfectly rev matched, heel-toe downshift that powers into an at the limit exit a scarcely matched pleasure of driving. Drivers should learn how to maintain control of a vehicle that has exceeded the limits of traction. Learning car control develops us into safer and more confident drivers.
In my job i drive a lot of rental cars, i drove the new sienna and i've driven some kia minivan, and i've driven the Kia soul. For my daily driving the sienna had no road feel i felt like i was moving on luck. The kia minivan had that sport shift auto box i liked that better and even better i was able to do an aggressive speed(cough cough) all the way home from mamaronek NY to queens. The kia soul accelerated, stopped, and turned when i wanted, even though an automatic, that'd be my daily.
I like Leo's point, on a track give me the all the dual clutch gear box, but I still want the car to do what I tell it do even it that's the wrong thing rather then some nanny cpu saying no. On the street I am not going for lap times I want my manual trans and still no nanny cpu telling me no. But I like driving, the problem is most people, in US at least, view driving as chore and a right, not a privilege and a skill that is really is.
Great discussion, I think Leo said it great. Personally I hate TCS and if a car does not have a full off mode I will not buy it. ABS is fine, I think it does nothing but make a car better. On the issue of Paddles vs Manual, Just buy what you like, they both are great!
FLD, tell JF ahead of time that he is going to be in front of the camera so he can put 5 seconds of effort in. Maybe he will put on some decent clothes and get a haircut and just maybe show up without bedhead/hathair. Alex was obnoxious, but he did know what he was talking about (kind of like Leo now that I think about it). Put them on the show together and see if a fist fight breaks out!
The manufacturers must think about most people who drive their cars... they are not like most of us who knows (for the most part) how to properly drive their cars. You really can't blame them for implementing these systems.
Road Testament without Alex is like driving without a steering wheel or engine.... F*ck that sh*t!
back to the show and the issues at hand. TCS is annoying for me but if people don't know how to drive then I can certainly see how it helps. ABS well i can say that most of us have used it and i know in snow it has helped me maintain control. But best braking control and performance is with systems without ABS. It's really a give and take here.
Honestly IMO traction control it annoying. I HATE traction control I know how it helps and what not but sometimes ex. a rainy day trying to turn on the the main street... with traction control on i gas it the wheel slips and then kicks in making the car drive super slow (may cause accident cuz car behind is going fast) but with traction control off wheel spins let of gas a lil bit gain traction then floor it again car picks up no problem the car behind doesnt need to slam their brakes.
On the street the fewer controls the better. I love working the stick. Electronic controls for safety? Sure! However, I have driven with some very poor drivers. Most who believe ABS and 4-wheel drive can defy physics. This belief makes these individuals very dangerous on winter roads.
On the Alex note, much better show without him, all he does is argue. Give Alex a seperate show with topics he knows and let him do his thing, let JF and Leo keep doing RT. I guess i'm old school in the sense that I believe true sports cars are those that have no interference from computer aids, such as TC and ABS. A sports car needs to allow the driver to drive, and allow him/ her to feel the car and how it behaves. Technology/ drivng aids in race cars however is absolutely necessary.
I Like manual in my cars I drive daily, but agree with Leo with track day cars. It makes it much easy to focus on apex, passing, and over all speed when you are not concerned with clutch, rev matching, and placing shift properly. I have an '86 mustang 5.0 with decent modifications and would not want paddles, love the stick <--- HAHA!
Great Episode. I have both the CTS-V's, and a ReX7, among others, and I would say Manual, Manual, Manual...a true driver's car must have the less technology possible, otherwise we enter the discussion of "who's driving who". Besides that, a couple of known issues I have with Tech:
- Paddles: Good if well implemented (some Ferrari's); Horrible when badly implemented (most cars with paddles, special the Aston Martin, where the paddle managed to ruin the car).
I don't think the best part about this video is that Alex is gone, but that Leo is in it! Leo is so awesome. Seriously. He is fun to listen to and I actually learn something.
Having tools is better but they should have different behaviour for the different purposes. The real problem comes when manufacturers start putting them in budget cars and this system becomes one of the places that they try to save money on.
Just finished reading the article that Matt Farah wrote because people were making fun of him because he couldn't complete his goal in the 'Vette, and it made me appreciate how whenever people give JF, Alex, Leo or DD crap, you guys don't take it all seriously and have to go off and write a big article trying to defend your honor, when it really makes you look a bit like a bitch. Keep on staying true to yourselves. I love FLD!
@EASiedlecki Thanks for noting. The rest of my thoughts on this stay with me - True to your point! [FYI - On FaceBook, I DID comment on his TST 'Listen A**holes' post, it's not a 'weight' problem, but height. IMO, Matt's too tall to be a racer!!! Hmm, no replies on that joke!]
I believe that Leo is correct when he says that technology should be there for safety, but when it overtakes the feel of road-car adhesion and lets not forget fun, it hinders TRUE driving ability. All enthusiasts are trying to match both their limits and the cars limits to create ultimate performance and if you take anything away from that you remove the whole reason for having a performance car and being a driving enthusiast in the first place.
The only reason i dont care for the flappy paddles i the fact that i dont have the clutch pedal there to allow me to interrupt power delivery at will. Perhaps if they made one with that clutch pedal feel id be completely happy cause i could still clutch kick during understeer if needed, be able to skip gears when up or downshifting or be a jackass and do burnouts.
i think that tech is important for safety, and cars should have them. but as a driving enthusiast i would like to be able switch them off, so i can still get the sensation of operating a car versus being along for the ride.
But like Leo said i need to feel the limits of the car.
My current car as example it has no noticeable feel that i am reaching the limit in the peddles or steering wheel. But i mainly hear and feel the tires trough the chassis. And i make my judgement from there if i am hitting the limit or not.
I would rather have some additional feedback tough from the peddles and steering wheel. But that's sadly the limitation of a normal modern car....
@Leo7:03 I know EXACTLY what you are talking about...... I just finished with Electronics I. The same piece of equipment can be used differently by two different people. Yes, some drivers depend on the technology behind the wheel to help them drive. Others (the more experienced ones), use the technology present in the car to gain an advantage, or try to turn it off because it's holding them back....
@JF6:45. Yes, the next generation of drivers will not be as skilled as the current and previous generations of drivers when it comes to transmissions. DSG, SMG, E-Gear, Sportronic, Tiptronic, It is obvious that companies are trying to satisfy both enthusiast drivers and plane janes. Unfortunately, the skill of driving a stick will become a lost art. It will become a hobby for the few
Along with agreeing with Spyker88, I feel that many driving aids have come about because people have already lost touch with driving. All the distractions we have that stop people from even paying attention to driving also reinforce the idea that the machine will do all the thinking for you. GPS, ABS, DSC, Auto Trans, cruise control, devices take control if you tailgate and parallel park for you... the average person no longer drives, they simply expect to be catered to on the road. It is sad.
I believe there should be a middle struck somewhere. There should be enough technology to improve safety while not completely taking away the natural feel of driving. The moment Technology takes over 98% of the driving duties, we lose even more of the natural ability to feel the car as well as give in to a false sense of security and even grow lazy with our reflexes. Overall, there should be a balance between Digital and Analog.
In ireland, we all had to learn how to drive manuals.Owning a manual e36 325 and having driven multiple automatics there is no comparison to a manual, being in total control of how the engine puts the power to the tarmac is second to none.When i do feel like opening up the 3 series i turn off the DSC to ensure that i am in full control so i dont allow myself to get to a position where the the limits of the car a governed by a computer, and if the limit is reached it doesn't end dramatically
I love the raw feel and connection of shifting as I "Hear" my revs and feel the grip as I down shift and turn into a corner, feeling the G's and having the cars body flex, giving me the physical feel of how I should handle the car in the turn. Airbags are a modern wonderful necessity, but too much of the "nanny" programs , I believe are placed into our Autos for the manufacturing "more things to break aspect" then lets keep people safe. self park, blindspot, lanedrift, watch what we're doing.
@sidthekid2009 : Personally, it all comes down to the challenge. Racing was never an adrenaline sport or "control" thing for me, it was relaxing. Getting into absolute concentration and forgetting everything is wonderful; it heals the soul. We desire to go faster because we desire to improve and strive for a goal. To be happy with status quot is not bad, my ultimate goal is consistent lap times. I know I am "on" when I am within 0.010 lap after lap.
I have always enjoyed using a manual transmission since the moment I first drove a car equipped with a 5spd. I feel like I am in my own little group of people that have learned a skill many refuse to obtain. I also feel that manual vehicles are cheaper when it comes to overall price and cheaper when it comes to maintenance. My little 2003 civic coupe may not be much but I enjoy what it is and wondering what it must be like to shift gears in a Porsche.
Ok so wen we got the spit in the road is all the way back to 1985 with the Ferrari F40 and the Porsche 959 the F40 is the fast scary light hands on car and then there is the 959 witch is the super computer on wheels like tire pressure sensors and all kinds of tech there is a reason that Bill Gates bought one personally i like the F40 much better and look at the new Big Lambo as Top gear says its not scary its not trying to kill you wen you take it into a corner.
Well, one of the things I love about my RX8 is the lack of major interference. With the DCS on the car will let you step the back out a bit which is great on the street. I can have some fun but if something unexpected pops up like a slick spot, the DCS can help pull it in. But, when I go to the track or an autox event, one button push and it's all off accept ABS. At that point it's just the road, car, and me. You feel everything and it's all about what I do. I love it.
Technology gooooood; Drivers baaaaaad. Ultimately, street cars will be computer controlled (autonomous cars), and bad drivers will be a thing of the past.
The drivers/racers who want to learn, and keep the ability to drive a car without any electronic driver aids will continue to do so. Of course in the future, there will be less who will be able to that, but there still will be those who pride themselves in unassisted complete car control.
Autos predominantly outsell manuals in north america, because the average commuter wants a to b. When you are an enthusiast, it's your decision whether you want to learn the skillset of the manual transmission and balancing a car under high g loads. The new tech isn't going anywhere, and its always possible to turn it off. Whether you want to learn the base skillset for feel is 100% your choice, for me, yes learnt, because I believe it gives me just that bit of an edge even if I have assists.
Beats up the GTR!!!!!!!!!!!!! Blasphemy! The GTR has the biggest fanboy following to date. Just look at any porsche video. They almost make you hate the car.
@Crushercurtis702 Theres quite a lot of hate from a lot of people as well. What some people that drove it don't like about it, is that it's too easy to get up there to that cars 9/10ths which is very high, and its usually past their limits as a driver, and they have a strange conflict of fear and confidence that was never there before, and the rest just copy what these people have said about it being too easy and say that without driving the car.
In many ways, it's horses for courses. For different uses, there are different types of car...
That said, the real problem is driver education. Drivers need to understand what their car can and cannot do. Without that understanding, even the best safety systems won't help. As Frank Zappa said, the most common element in the universe is stupidity - and if you don't know what your car is/isn't capable of, you will do something stupid & crash...
The way I look at it is, to a degree, if it makes the car safer or faster, go for it. I just don't like the idea of certain present and upcoming aids such as lane assist or lane departure, and I think it was Mercedes, i might be wrong, that was talking about the car passing other cars by itself. When it comes to this, although it might make driving safer, I think it's making drivers lazy or more prone to drive with risk. Warning sounds and visuals are okay, but when the car moves by itself, no.
i don't like the idea of electronic aids making the car go faster, but i'm all for the technology of making tires, suspension, aero, and weight better.
Tools in a car are like any other tool. There has to be a job for the tool and the tool has to be the best choice for the job. If you need to go as fast as possible, paddle shifting is the tool for that job. If you need to drive in the snow, traction control, anti-lock breaks, and AWD are the tools for that job. If you want to have a fun windy-back-road drive, a stick shift car may be the tool for that.
These technologies have made things much safer, however, there can be a lack of understanding of what they can, but more importantly, cannot do. This morning, a neighbour crashed her X5 blaming brake failure. It turned out the brakes were fine, the fault was her misconceptions about what they could do. She believed the ABS and other aids could save her from anything. In short, she was driving on a snow-covered road, braked hard because she’d missed her turn-in and slid into a parked car.
i actually think it's most important to understand how to use a car that doesn't have those systems in them before you can actually appreciate them and then use them effectively. i drive a 98 mustang gt and i love the fact that it doesn't have any systems to aid me 'cause now i have better technique and are able to beat ppl that are just letting their cars do all the work. a car is as good as the driver, not the driving aides
That Paddle shifters are... whatever you're complaining about. Lambo Did away with their Manuals and many many more are switching. Leo nailed it @ 6:41. The Fastest car in the World has an Automated manual. Bugatti SS. manuals are dead and pointless to me. They should be special order.
Manuals are OK, But Paddle Shifters are better in every way.Most people that love manuals and I said MOST, NOT ALL are of a certain age ( for bragging rights). Im over 30 and Manual is no big deal, Its ez for me to shifts, downshift. And most people that downshift manual Dont EVEN Match rev, which puts wear and tear on the car's engine mounts/ clutch friction plates bla bla. Electronic Nannys are only a nuisance,= when you cant turn them completely off. Go Tell Ferrari, Lambo, Formula 1 drivrs
@dinodam I dont know how the way u americans talk. But i think i well educated person everytime he/she talks will consider other people's feeling. if Alex is not great, then just say Leo is very good. Being mean doesnt make u a man. Be a gentlemen.
@ragemx999 Alex is a douche! Leo actually puts in input not just waits for his turn to argue. All Alex does is argue and be an ass. I DO NOT watch road testament if Alex is there cause it is going to be 5 to 10 minutes of him arguing with JF.
A road car should always be tame. Roads aren't race tracks. For track-days or a drive on a back road, you have technology like that of the 1M, which is becoming more and more or a standard in performance-oriented road cars.
And this is where I love Leo, because he knows that the technology issue goes beyond the drama in Manual Vs. Auto. It applies itself to traction control and suspension settings, which are (really), much more of an influence in the driving experience when at the limit.
I've just recently learnt to drive stick on my bros BMW 335i - his lease was ending in a few days and he had already picked himself up a new toy haha, so he didn't care if I killed the clutch (I didn't lol)
@rororooster The manual car is a great sensation but if I want a track toy, its paddles for me. For the road, I say I would love me a nice manual v8 vantage.
I get what you guys are saying, However, When I drive in my car with a 5 spd manual, I instantly try to become a better driver, making shifts smoothly, quicker, memorize the rev limiter, keep enough rpm going on the curve for max exit speed on the off ramps and as soon as I get on the freeway is max MPG with avg speed, coasting and stretching those MPGS.
2 years ago when i just turned 16 and got my learners permit, my parents offered to buy me a car to learn to drive in and eventually own. they picked out a civic for me, i turned it down for a e30 318is - RWD, manual, no ABS, no traction control. i picked this car with the sole purpose of wanting to truly learn how to drive a car.
Yes i have spun out a few times. Yes ive had some close calls. but from them i have ACTUALLY learned how to control a car, and i am a better driver from it.
I am all about the freedom of choice. If I want an AMG car, why can I not have the option of getting a manual? If I am dropping six figures on a Ferrari, why cant I choose my transmission? I understand why someone would want paddle shifters, I just don't understand why a six figure car cant have two transmission options. Are the companies getting that stingy?
Where's alex roy?! I really can't stand the everybody loves raymond and mr I hate being american so bad I killed my parents with a audi bring back the bald clown not leo hes a wanna be lewis black fun size edition
It's not so much a question of either-or. I.e., you can't really say either extreme is the best because it is dependent upon the application. In racing, the there will always be a level between raw driving feel and technology that will make for the best time. However, in any car where you're driving for pleasure, having no driver aides would probably the best option for the true driving enthusiast. Whereas, for the average driver, a high level of technology will probably actually aid the driver.
This is why I love my RX8. It has DSC but it works with the driver in a way that you can feel it just saved your ass. The RX8 is very drivable even without DSC, it just takes careful throttle and steering input. If one isn't careful, he/she will feel like an F1 driver and then end up wrapping their car around a pole.
Technology is good but u can't rely on it completely. For example the BMW m1, it doesn't slip in the rain but even if I know that it won't slip, I'll still drive carefully. Technology is like a back up
Alex Roy = ridiculous comments, idiotic comparisons, unvalued and unbacked opinions
Leo Parente = mothafucking F1 Professional Driver. Every time he opens his mouth he knows what he's talking about, and doesn't talk just to be heard and sound cooler than JF (which he fails at miserably)
@spornicu Leo knows what is going on. He is actually right about Webber not in sync with the new launch of the RB7 this year. So he switched back to the more 'old school' starts he used with the RB6 last year, and found it worked better for him. Even though the newer way to launch should actually help.
@spornicu Seriously. It's nice that this segment actually has some serious commentary and sensible comparisons to go with it instead of Alex Roy's annoying "I have to sound like I'm the coolest" instead of just talking about the damn topic. If that bald headed clown was off the show for good, I'd watch a lot more often.
And yeah, tech can squeeze a half second out of a lap time.
But what does that half second cost? Aren't we hitting the law of diminishing returns? Why do cars need to be so expensive and heavy, so full of padding and performance-luxury (GTR)? Why is this arms race so important? Only in a consumer society, where status is derived from sticker price, does this happen. I'd take a car at 75% the cost that feels quick outside of a track.
I own a 94 silverado and my uncle a 06. The 06 is drive by wire and there is no consistent sensation of how the engine and tranny are going to react to accelerator position. Most of the time you push your foot down and hope its what you need, when you need it. On the 94, I always know how the truck is going to react. Where the power is, when its going to shift or downshift ect. With the 06 its a guessing game. Like playing a videogame.
The tools are very good for us. Cars keep getting faster and people just get dumber. We all overestimate our level of skill. Even the best racers have accidents and I am glad there are safeguards in place to limit human error. In America they don't teach us to drive anymore only to pass a test. I do believe every driver needs to start off with a manual trans because it keeps you from being lazy and forces you to think. We have to face the fact one day no one will drive stick or offer it.
AF 447 wasn't pilot error because they assumed the computers would save them. The computers were giving them the wrong info and AirBus's awesome computers that can and will override all pilot input is what crashed that plane. It went from 35,000 ft to the see in about 3 minutes. No pilot making a trans-Atlantic trip is stupid enough to let that happen.
I do think a manual transmission should be required for a driving test. It teaching the driver to understand the car and feel it, making better drivers. All the set is now, is do a little short cone test, drive around the block and your done. A trained monkey could take it.
On other technologies, i like them to an extent. I despise the new seniors in luxury cars for blink spot monitoring, and auto braking when it sense your coming in to fast. These train drivers to depend on tech.
I have only been in one car accident. If that car didn't have ABS I would have not been in that accident. I will never drive a car with ABS in it again. It's a hazard to people who actually know how to drive and it should not be a requirement.
Are the tools good for us? Yes, bad driving festers if the technology is there or not; it's up to the driver to understand that training doesn't stop when you get your license.
Yes these tools are good, but when they start to take away from the driver sensation, that is fun if driving they can become an annoying. Also when you drive a car and you dont know its limits is extremely dangerous. I say give people the option to turn these things on and off, so regular drivers can have a safe car, and driving enthusiast can have fun with the car.
ps if you arent driving a manual you arent driving :P
Although i get what Leo is saying about liking technology as long as the feel for the car is still there, i have to agree and expand on the comment below by Elements153. The reason we watch sports (including motor-sports) of all kinds is because we enjoy witnessing feats of strength, agility and focus; and we like the drama of competition, the emotions of winners and losers, sportsmanship etc. Although tech in racing is surely a plus in many instances, we (enthusiasts) and racing communities
I say put it back on the manufacturers who produce rubbery, isolated manual transmissions that are no fun and are nothing but a pain to drive.
Affordable example? Miata and S2000 manuals: These transmissions ruined me for their feel (true they are rwd chassis). By comparison in the price range (will the FR-S feel as good?), there is no joy in manual shifting. Why not go automatic? And if you go that direction, why not DSG; the best of it's affordable class?
Also, staying dependent on technology will only get us into trouble and cause the cars to get bigger and bigger because they'll require space to put the technology. If you're going down the road and your ABS goes haywire, will you know how to react then or will you have been too conditioned on relying on it? Same goes for TPMS. If you take preventative steps by checking your PSI every other fill up and getting them rotated regularly, where's the problem and why need TPMS?
Sure, tech is good but there is nothing better from feeling of changing gears our self, Yes you are slower on the track but be honest, how many of us take everyday car to track and how often those 0.3 sec difference per lap matter?
Also, technology will never completely save us. For instance, today in Arkansas, it rained. I was getting onto the interstate and a newer styled Jeep Liberty was getting on ahead of me. It took the corner not even at a slow pace as I was in my rental Taurus and was keeping pace. It slipped, and the ass went out and they wound up in the ditch. I wasn't a douche and stopped to help. However, where was technology to the rescue there?
i think all the tech in cars today has made us lazy. there are some people who shouldn't drive aggressively/fast simply because there not good at it. all the technology in cars today allow anyone and everyone to drive how they want and to push the limits of their car. most people do this with no previous training or practice.
in my opinion the technology on cars is making driving too easy and therefore making the roads more dangerous.
Tools of Driving:... I learned to drive a car, then I learned to drive a stick shift. I'm a better driver for it. Then I learned to drive cars with "computer assist". I think like every mechanics tool box the more tools the better. The ability to drive comes first then learning to better yourself and make the roads safer is inherant with advances in technology.
I understand that the padel shifters are fast on a track, easier, and help you focus more on the road.. and i like the fact that technology advances in racing. But Racing... is a sport ! And i believe that for a sport to be a real sport, it has to be competative and it needs to involve skill. Thats the the manual shifter comes into play. The more skill that is involved with the SPORT of RACING, the more entertaining and challenging it will be. Hands down.
for a daily driver no car should have FULL computer assists because for heavens sake there are gonna be those ppl in the world (like they mention in the video) that just rely on that and end up killing multiple ppl,
just like a story i heard a little while back this guy with a motor home put it on "cruise" got out of his seat and went n made lunch and ended up driving off a cliff
Im 18 and i drive a Cobalt SS/NA and yeah its not a fast car. Yeah it will get up and go quick but not fast beyond any means. But a 5 speed manual makes it feel fast.... Just somthing about slamming it into the next gear at 6000 rpm that just makes that morning commute something to wake up to every morning.
things like traction control are necessary for the everyday driver, and they can save you in sticky situations, for example, i have a 10 year old mustang, and in the wet, the back loves to slide around. on my commute this morning, i accelerated slightly vigorously, and the tc kicked in. i would have been able to deal with sliding around because i race my car, but the average joe probably would have spun and crashed
Leo is spot on about having the paddles on the race track
and manual in less serious situations
I prefer manual over paddle nearly 100% of the time, and have a manual as my daily driver,
but, with the amount of speed modern race cars experience, due to increased technology, there needs to be a focus on the track, as opposed to shifting.
These road testaments with Leo are outstanding, with every video he has been in I have had a definite understanding and position of the argument. MORE LEO
my cousin had a crappy 20 year old car and she drove down the street at 25mph. now she's got a new car of the same class and she's driving at 50mph. she's not a better driver than before. she flew off the road and crashed it already.
the new car is more powerful and with all the gizmos you don't sense the speed like in the old car. you need the tech to stay alive in a crash but you wouldn't have had the crash if the car was older and more basic because you'd be driving is more slowly.
Drivers in the good ol' USA and elsewhere have already lost a lot of skills, or never had them to begin with. Recall the "cop" who couldn't remember/know to take the car out-of-gear when the throttle got "stuck". He drove for several minutes before killing himself & his family.The more 'tools' the common driver has at their disposal the more skills will be lost....period. Soon however, our cars will merely drive themselves anyway.watch it happen...mandated by the government of course.
"Turn headlights on, turn turning signals on, drive forward, drive reverse. OK now parallel park" congratulations you now have a license! you make now unleash your total lack of knowledge on to innocent by-standards! im on the road all day, & i have to experience several near accidents everyday. u-turns from the far lane, swerving into oncoming traffic, full speed reverse into my truck, ive seen it all :\
NO MORE DRIVER AIDES!!!!!!!!!!! Americans are horrible drivers as is. make getting a license more challenging to attain.. instead of making the cars easier to drive. you know why tire pressure monitoring exist? because people couldnt take the time to check their TP's and kept rolling over their SUV's.. its F*CKING ridiculous.
Are the tools good for us? Well, who's "us"? The great majority of drivers shouldn't even be on the road, so, including them, yes. Thank goodness, they need all the aid they can get (because face it, there won't be any change in how easy it is to get a license in the USA). If by "us" you mean those that enjoy driving and have just a tad of ability, things like TC are probably bad. Performance in the right hands is the ultimate safety feature. TC takes that away from the capable driver.
I love the SST (dual clutch) in my Evo X, especially when I get stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic! But despite being 'computer controlled', you still need to match your speed/engine speed when shifting, otherwise it's jerky as hell. I can still drive a manual, I simply chose not to.
WOW i was having this conversation yesterday... NO i dont think the tools are good for us, i say that even lower end high performance cars, like the 370z or the E92 M3 (not saying they are in the same class, they are just examples) The E92 makes somewhere over 400 hp (414?) no normal person should be able to just hop into that car and drive the hell out of it, it should be dangerous and scary, but instead im sure (havent driven one) it lets u beat it and it wont fight u... i think thats wrong..
Technology helps people, but it just takes time. Few years back I'd own stick over autos for the reasons that autos doesn't shift fast enough, isn't in the gear that I want, uses more fuel, and just plain can't goes as fast. Now it does, why not. It's like saying, I don't want to use my right hand, it does things too efficiently. In a few more years, in racing there'd be no talk. As for fun factor, look at "Dukes of Hazzard." If you really love driving, you can have fun in anything you drive.
My twi cents..Im with Leo for the most part, but the bigger question should be is the technology market driven, or a result of govmt regulation? IMO, all this "safety" crap on new cars drive the cost up, make the car heavier, and in regular driving conditions arent warrented. Put a moron driver in a "safe" car, you still have a moron driver. Technology is great, but there are those who like the alternative.
Shifting is part of driving - paddle-shifters remove that aspect from the equation and make it easy. I want to go faster because of me, not because of the tech in the car. I can understant tech into F1 and other professional forms of motor racing, but for me, I want to get better as a driver on my own merits.
Tools are great but , you have to be taught ,at first, to drive with out them to get a real feel of what a car is ,driving dynamics bases & how these tools actually help you.
Tools ease the hustle of every day journey's but they ought to make it possible to switch them off , with out hacks & tricks, for that once in a week joy ride....
With regards to Webber; You can't say "this may not be true" because it obviously is true that Vettel can balance the car and sense what it is doing much better. We all agree that they have the same tools and technology within the car... there then it all comes down to the driver, and in this case Vettel interacts with and has proven that he can better manipulate/use the race car in a superior manner.
manual trans beats auto or cvt any-day in my book. because when i drive and auto or a cvt i cannot get that feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction i get when i drive a manual car (especially 90's to 00"s cars) . but if i am driving like a van or a Tahoe or something where i expect to relax and be comfortable i really don't mind and auto. But i think any car with less than 250 hp should come with a manual; because that is the only way to get the car moving and be able to use all the power
Open question.
Guys:
I am dead set on buying a Acura TSX manual 2004-2005..
I driven manual for a long time and I do care about the feeling/feedback from the manual than the boring feeling that a AT (all kinds) gives to me...
is there any other car (besides the Mini Cooper) that I should consider also? (manual)
Rufusd15 1 month ago
@Rufusd15 same year and price range you can get a subaru wrx (AWD) witch i would recommend or (RWD)G35,350z,rx8 i think its ugly but its a good driver or if you want to stick with FWD you can get a VW GTI
KoopaZ32 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It confuses me how this question is still relevant as it was asked when power-steering was invented. Manly men saw power-steering as an unfair advantage over the guys who could go fast without it. Power-steering won because, when you think about it, what are cars? Weren't they built to be a technological advantage over the horse?
That said people still drive old muscle cars, and even horses, so if that's you do you, but some day cars will drive themselves faster than you and that's awesome.
krtong 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Comment removed
krtong 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
i love how leo would stomp his foot every time he talks about breaking or accelerating.
veteran011 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
680 whp Lotus the only tools needed are a proper setup and driver control..
Check out my channel..
roninexige 2 months ago
Traction/stability control and ABS are good tools. They can actually help drivers learn a car limit safely but only if the driver knows when these systems intervene(i.e. the pulsing of the brake pedal when ABS activates). If a driver can learn to drive at the cars limit without activating these system they will be a much better driver.
runnermatt 2 months ago
Making macro adjustments to speed and acceleration rates with the manual transmission can make anyone a better driver and moving in traffic a more mindful experience. The feeling of a perfectly rev matched, heel-toe downshift that powers into an at the limit exit a scarcely matched pleasure of driving. Drivers should learn how to maintain control of a vehicle that has exceeded the limits of traction. Learning car control develops us into safer and more confident drivers.
whittisismhere 2 months ago
Now for fun in the country side nothing better than a wrx or a Honda RSX. the feel and fun is there.
Javierm0n0 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
In my job i drive a lot of rental cars, i drove the new sienna and i've driven some kia minivan, and i've driven the Kia soul. For my daily driving the sienna had no road feel i felt like i was moving on luck. The kia minivan had that sport shift auto box i liked that better and even better i was able to do an aggressive speed(cough cough) all the way home from mamaronek NY to queens. The kia soul accelerated, stopped, and turned when i wanted, even though an automatic, that'd be my daily.
Javierm0n0 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I like Leo's point, on a track give me the all the dual clutch gear box, but I still want the car to do what I tell it do even it that's the wrong thing rather then some nanny cpu saying no. On the street I am not going for lap times I want my manual trans and still no nanny cpu telling me no. But I like driving, the problem is most people, in US at least, view driving as chore and a right, not a privilege and a skill that is really is.
outlawsonic 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Great discussion, I think Leo said it great. Personally I hate TCS and if a car does not have a full off mode I will not buy it. ABS is fine, I think it does nothing but make a car better. On the issue of Paddles vs Manual, Just buy what you like, they both are great!
wickedsc300 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Awesome points guy!
MrSonDaOne 2 months ago
My ipod messed up, disregard my perevious comment
126ya 2 months ago
Also with more technology the more control the com
126ya 2 months ago
FLD, tell JF ahead of time that he is going to be in front of the camera so he can put 5 seconds of effort in. Maybe he will put on some decent clothes and get a haircut and just maybe show up without bedhead/hathair. Alex was obnoxious, but he did know what he was talking about (kind of like Leo now that I think about it). Put them on the show together and see if a fist fight breaks out!
ChevChelios383 2 months ago
No for racing, yes for safety.
chromosom9509 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
From a woking persons perspective.
All this technology is just something else to go wrong; It will be expensive to repair and will more than likely not be DIY.
So while i have adapted to Fuel injection and Anti lock brakes after that i just need a simple car that can be affordably maintained and repaired.
amunderdog 2 months ago
I'm an Aerospace Engineer JF and I have to agree I LOVE AIRPLANES!
FakDomestics 2 months ago
The manufacturers must think about most people who drive their cars... they are not like most of us who knows (for the most part) how to properly drive their cars. You really can't blame them for implementing these systems.
FakDomestics 2 months ago
Alex knows what he's talking about! Alex is KING!
Road Testament without Alex is like driving without a steering wheel or engine.... F*ck that sh*t!
back to the show and the issues at hand. TCS is annoying for me but if people don't know how to drive then I can certainly see how it helps. ABS well i can say that most of us have used it and i know in snow it has helped me maintain control. But best braking control and performance is with systems without ABS. It's really a give and take here.
FakDomestics 2 months ago
Honestly IMO traction control it annoying. I HATE traction control I know how it helps and what not but sometimes ex. a rainy day trying to turn on the the main street... with traction control on i gas it the wheel slips and then kicks in making the car drive super slow (may cause accident cuz car behind is going fast) but with traction control off wheel spins let of gas a lil bit gain traction then floor it again car picks up no problem the car behind doesnt need to slam their brakes.
tweakmode 2 months ago
@tweakmode also abs is a good thing i guess because ALOT of people dont know how to drive with out...
tweakmode 2 months ago
On the street the fewer controls the better. I love working the stick. Electronic controls for safety? Sure! However, I have driven with some very poor drivers. Most who believe ABS and 4-wheel drive can defy physics. This belief makes these individuals very dangerous on winter roads.
basilf1 2 months ago
On the Alex note, much better show without him, all he does is argue. Give Alex a seperate show with topics he knows and let him do his thing, let JF and Leo keep doing RT. I guess i'm old school in the sense that I believe true sports cars are those that have no interference from computer aids, such as TC and ABS. A sports car needs to allow the driver to drive, and allow him/ her to feel the car and how it behaves. Technology/ drivng aids in race cars however is absolutely necessary.
666nicedreams 2 months ago
the tools are good but they still need to keep the manual trannys. i dont want the car to control it self there is no skill in that!!
videosps 2 months ago
Great episode. Leo's on the button.
VonStrappen 2 months ago
I Like manual in my cars I drive daily, but agree with Leo with track day cars. It makes it much easy to focus on apex, passing, and over all speed when you are not concerned with clutch, rev matching, and placing shift properly. I have an '86 mustang 5.0 with decent modifications and would not want paddles, love the stick <--- HAHA!
turbo04ion 2 months ago
Great Episode. I have both the CTS-V's, and a ReX7, among others, and I would say Manual, Manual, Manual...a true driver's car must have the less technology possible, otherwise we enter the discussion of "who's driving who". Besides that, a couple of known issues I have with Tech:
- Paddles: Good if well implemented (some Ferrari's); Horrible when badly implemented (most cars with paddles, special the Aston Martin, where the paddle managed to ruin the car).
- Weight...
- Car Fighting Driver...
NorthWolfe 2 months ago
Ty for a great show JF & Leo!
p.s. Happy Holidays FLD
angeldragon0 2 months ago
I don't think the best part about this video is that Alex is gone, but that Leo is in it! Leo is so awesome. Seriously. He is fun to listen to and I actually learn something.
rustlerboi1052 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Ever notice how when Alex was on RT, the like/dislike bar would be pretty even, but with Leo, likes dominate? Yes, I'm running the Bash-Alex Train.
IAMTHEZTM 2 months ago
what that's on the arm of the chair?
IndentV 2 months ago
this show is better without that dick fuck fag bitch
okaythen001 2 months ago
Having tools is better but they should have different behaviour for the different purposes. The real problem comes when manufacturers start putting them in budget cars and this system becomes one of the places that they try to save money on.
Merto6 2 months ago
Just finished reading the article that Matt Farah wrote because people were making fun of him because he couldn't complete his goal in the 'Vette, and it made me appreciate how whenever people give JF, Alex, Leo or DD crap, you guys don't take it all seriously and have to go off and write a big article trying to defend your honor, when it really makes you look a bit like a bitch. Keep on staying true to yourselves. I love FLD!
EASiedlecki 2 months ago
@EASiedlecki Thanks for noting. The rest of my thoughts on this stay with me - True to your point! [FYI - On FaceBook, I DID comment on his TST 'Listen A**holes' post, it's not a 'weight' problem, but height. IMO, Matt's too tall to be a racer!!! Hmm, no replies on that joke!]
LeoParente 2 months ago
leo looks like imdb.com/name/nm0506405/
tooner123456789 2 months ago
@tooner123456789 Let me guess! George Clooney? James Franco?
LeoParente 2 months ago
I agree I like to feel my car that's why I got a 1990 Acura integra RS it's fast manual and u can feel the cars power and limits
nietoc100 2 months ago
JF, stop going mhm every 5 seconds, it gets annoying...
S281X 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I believe that Leo is correct when he says that technology should be there for safety, but when it overtakes the feel of road-car adhesion and lets not forget fun, it hinders TRUE driving ability. All enthusiasts are trying to match both their limits and the cars limits to create ultimate performance and if you take anything away from that you remove the whole reason for having a performance car and being a driving enthusiast in the first place.
rockthehouseyall 2 months ago
The only reason i dont care for the flappy paddles i the fact that i dont have the clutch pedal there to allow me to interrupt power delivery at will. Perhaps if they made one with that clutch pedal feel id be completely happy cause i could still clutch kick during understeer if needed, be able to skip gears when up or downshifting or be a jackass and do burnouts.
RX7GLORY 2 months ago
i think that tech is important for safety, and cars should have them. but as a driving enthusiast i would like to be able switch them off, so i can still get the sensation of operating a car versus being along for the ride.
zedR32 2 months ago
i like leo and jf better then i like alex and jf
vtecboi18 2 months ago
I love tech in my car.
But like Leo said i need to feel the limits of the car.
My current car as example it has no noticeable feel that i am reaching the limit in the peddles or steering wheel. But i mainly hear and feel the tires trough the chassis. And i make my judgement from there if i am hitting the limit or not.
I would rather have some additional feedback tough from the peddles and steering wheel. But that's sadly the limitation of a normal modern car....
shintsu01 2 months ago
9 Alex Roys disliked this video.
XenoRacing 2 months ago
Whats this? JF isnt being interrupted? Oh wait, thats not Alex Roy beside him.
XenoRacing 2 months ago
I just can't wait until we start racing electric cars! Let's do this!! It's a new area to explore but still has familiarity! ^_~
Jeredin13 2 months ago
I'm probably going with v10 M5 SMG pre-owned.
I read the grips about 1st gear, I have M3 SMG and learned to drive it smooth in a weekend.
But I'll never opt for auto Porsche, it's just not right
euro944t 2 months ago
You should be able to have as many driving aids as you want but be able to turn them off
NewLeaf66 2 months ago
love leo "shorty" Parente.
ktrenchfield 2 months ago in playlist More videos from FastLaneDaily
I don't believe the absence of a manual transmission makes one a lesser driver.
Formula 1 moved on to paddle shifters with DCT
Our road cars are going to paddle shifters with DCT
It's the future
All this technology points in a positive direction
We wouldn't be where we are today in the sport of racing without it
sid203 2 months ago
@Leo 7:03 I know EXACTLY what you are talking about...... I just finished with Electronics I. The same piece of equipment can be used differently by two different people. Yes, some drivers depend on the technology behind the wheel to help them drive. Others (the more experienced ones), use the technology present in the car to gain an advantage, or try to turn it off because it's holding them back....
nextyles 2 months ago
i love aids
dickcheese663 2 months ago
@JF 6:45. Yes, the next generation of drivers will not be as skilled as the current and previous generations of drivers when it comes to transmissions. DSG, SMG, E-Gear, Sportronic, Tiptronic, It is obvious that companies are trying to satisfy both enthusiast drivers and plane janes. Unfortunately, the skill of driving a stick will become a lost art. It will become a hobby for the few
nextyles 2 months ago
Along with agreeing with Spyker88, I feel that many driving aids have come about because people have already lost touch with driving. All the distractions we have that stop people from even paying attention to driving also reinforce the idea that the machine will do all the thinking for you. GPS, ABS, DSC, Auto Trans, cruise control, devices take control if you tailgate and parallel park for you... the average person no longer drives, they simply expect to be catered to on the road. It is sad.
g00sampson 2 months ago
I believe there should be a middle struck somewhere. There should be enough technology to improve safety while not completely taking away the natural feel of driving. The moment Technology takes over 98% of the driving duties, we lose even more of the natural ability to feel the car as well as give in to a false sense of security and even grow lazy with our reflexes. Overall, there should be a balance between Digital and Analog.
Spyker88 2 months ago
@Spyker88 : Well said.
g00sampson 2 months ago
I have a very simple answer:-
Racing:- No driver aids! We want to see the best drivers, not the best software engineers.
Daily Driving:- As many aids as you want. It's not a race, it's a commute!
milesinfront 2 months ago 13
Great Show guys. Love the Discussion. Manual is KING but i respect the Dual Clutch and may get it someday.
echofoxx 2 months ago
In ireland, we all had to learn how to drive manuals.Owning a manual e36 325 and having driven multiple automatics there is no comparison to a manual, being in total control of how the engine puts the power to the tarmac is second to none.When i do feel like opening up the 3 series i turn off the DSC to ensure that i am in full control so i dont allow myself to get to a position where the the limits of the car a governed by a computer, and if the limit is reached it doesn't end dramatically
jblennon101 2 months ago
I love the raw feel and connection of shifting as I "Hear" my revs and feel the grip as I down shift and turn into a corner, feeling the G's and having the cars body flex, giving me the physical feel of how I should handle the car in the turn. Airbags are a modern wonderful necessity, but too much of the "nanny" programs , I believe are placed into our Autos for the manufacturing "more things to break aspect" then lets keep people safe. self park, blindspot, lanedrift, watch what we're doing.
corbelius6 2 months ago
...Now the question is why do you want to go faster?
sidthekid2009 2 months ago
@sidthekid2009 : Personally, it all comes down to the challenge. Racing was never an adrenaline sport or "control" thing for me, it was relaxing. Getting into absolute concentration and forgetting everything is wonderful; it heals the soul. We desire to go faster because we desire to improve and strive for a goal. To be happy with status quot is not bad, my ultimate goal is consistent lap times. I know I am "on" when I am within 0.010 lap after lap.
To be more simple... going faster is fun!
g00sampson 2 months ago
I have always enjoyed using a manual transmission since the moment I first drove a car equipped with a 5spd. I feel like I am in my own little group of people that have learned a skill many refuse to obtain. I also feel that manual vehicles are cheaper when it comes to overall price and cheaper when it comes to maintenance. My little 2003 civic coupe may not be much but I enjoy what it is and wondering what it must be like to shift gears in a Porsche.
kdlope01 2 months ago
Ok so wen we got the spit in the road is all the way back to 1985 with the Ferrari F40 and the Porsche 959 the F40 is the fast scary light hands on car and then there is the 959 witch is the super computer on wheels like tire pressure sensors and all kinds of tech there is a reason that Bill Gates bought one personally i like the F40 much better and look at the new Big Lambo as Top gear says its not scary its not trying to kill you wen you take it into a corner.
i think a car needs to scare you
skyppl1995 2 months ago
Well, one of the things I love about my RX8 is the lack of major interference. With the DCS on the car will let you step the back out a bit which is great on the street. I can have some fun but if something unexpected pops up like a slick spot, the DCS can help pull it in. But, when I go to the track or an autox event, one button push and it's all off accept ABS. At that point it's just the road, car, and me. You feel everything and it's all about what I do. I love it.
cbremer83 2 months ago
SAVE THE MANUALS!!!!
mikend4spd 2 months ago
Technology gooooood; Drivers baaaaaad. Ultimately, street cars will be computer controlled (autonomous cars), and bad drivers will be a thing of the past.
The drivers/racers who want to learn, and keep the ability to drive a car without any electronic driver aids will continue to do so. Of course in the future, there will be less who will be able to that, but there still will be those who pride themselves in unassisted complete car control.
thonczarenko 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Autos predominantly outsell manuals in north america, because the average commuter wants a to b. When you are an enthusiast, it's your decision whether you want to learn the skillset of the manual transmission and balancing a car under high g loads. The new tech isn't going anywhere, and its always possible to turn it off. Whether you want to learn the base skillset for feel is 100% your choice, for me, yes learnt, because I believe it gives me just that bit of an edge even if I have assists.
ztunelover 2 months ago
Beats up the GTR!!!!!!!!!!!!! Blasphemy! The GTR has the biggest fanboy following to date. Just look at any porsche video. They almost make you hate the car.
Crushercurtis702 2 months ago
@Crushercurtis702 Theres quite a lot of hate from a lot of people as well. What some people that drove it don't like about it, is that it's too easy to get up there to that cars 9/10ths which is very high, and its usually past their limits as a driver, and they have a strange conflict of fear and confidence that was never there before, and the rest just copy what these people have said about it being too easy and say that without driving the car.
ztunelover 2 months ago
In many ways, it's horses for courses. For different uses, there are different types of car...
That said, the real problem is driver education. Drivers need to understand what their car can and cannot do. Without that understanding, even the best safety systems won't help. As Frank Zappa said, the most common element in the universe is stupidity - and if you don't know what your car is/isn't capable of, you will do something stupid & crash...
gchampi2 2 months ago
The way I look at it is, to a degree, if it makes the car safer or faster, go for it. I just don't like the idea of certain present and upcoming aids such as lane assist or lane departure, and I think it was Mercedes, i might be wrong, that was talking about the car passing other cars by itself. When it comes to this, although it might make driving safer, I think it's making drivers lazy or more prone to drive with risk. Warning sounds and visuals are okay, but when the car moves by itself, no.
FabulousKawa 2 months ago
i don't like the idea of electronic aids making the car go faster, but i'm all for the technology of making tires, suspension, aero, and weight better.
mrshine67 2 months ago
Tools in a car are like any other tool. There has to be a job for the tool and the tool has to be the best choice for the job. If you need to go as fast as possible, paddle shifting is the tool for that job. If you need to drive in the snow, traction control, anti-lock breaks, and AWD are the tools for that job. If you want to have a fun windy-back-road drive, a stick shift car may be the tool for that.
hilg2654 2 months ago
Comment removed
ge90777 2 months ago
These technologies have made things much safer, however, there can be a lack of understanding of what they can, but more importantly, cannot do. This morning, a neighbour crashed her X5 blaming brake failure. It turned out the brakes were fine, the fault was her misconceptions about what they could do. She believed the ABS and other aids could save her from anything. In short, she was driving on a snow-covered road, braked hard because she’d missed her turn-in and slid into a parked car.
cheyennedogsoldiers 2 months ago
i actually think it's most important to understand how to use a car that doesn't have those systems in them before you can actually appreciate them and then use them effectively. i drive a 98 mustang gt and i love the fact that it doesn't have any systems to aid me 'cause now i have better technique and are able to beat ppl that are just letting their cars do all the work. a car is as good as the driver, not the driving aides
lwownzu 2 months ago
That Paddle shifters are... whatever you're complaining about. Lambo Did away with their Manuals and many many more are switching. Leo nailed it @ 6:41. The Fastest car in the World has an Automated manual. Bugatti SS. manuals are dead and pointless to me. They should be special order.
joseabreu00 2 months ago
Manuals are OK, But Paddle Shifters are better in every way.Most people that love manuals and I said MOST, NOT ALL are of a certain age ( for bragging rights). Im over 30 and Manual is no big deal, Its ez for me to shifts, downshift. And most people that downshift manual Dont EVEN Match rev, which puts wear and tear on the car's engine mounts/ clutch friction plates bla bla. Electronic Nannys are only a nuisance,= when you cant turn them completely off. Go Tell Ferrari, Lambo, Formula 1 drivrs
joseabreu00 2 months ago
get alex out and leo in permanently
hoffifee 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Great Show! much better without Alex.
dinodam 2 months ago 22
@dinodam I dont know how the way u americans talk. But i think i well educated person everytime he/she talks will consider other people's feeling. if Alex is not great, then just say Leo is very good. Being mean doesnt make u a man. Be a gentlemen.
Dominic83189 2 months ago 2
@dinodam not better without alex but way better with leo
ragemx999 2 months ago 27
@ragemx999 Alex is a douche! Leo actually puts in input not just waits for his turn to argue. All Alex does is argue and be an ass. I DO NOT watch road testament if Alex is there cause it is going to be 5 to 10 minutes of him arguing with JF.
turbo04ion 2 months ago
manual > everything else
randrewm97 2 months ago
Put extra two wheels on a bike, it's safer and has more tech.
Isn't that how you role ? 4 wheel bike is safer more tech
euro944t 2 months ago
@euro944t OMFFFFG, no....... But, 'cute'.
LeoParente 2 months ago
A road car should always be tame. Roads aren't race tracks. For track-days or a drive on a back road, you have technology like that of the 1M, which is becoming more and more or a standard in performance-oriented road cars.
And this is where I love Leo, because he knows that the technology issue goes beyond the drama in Manual Vs. Auto. It applies itself to traction control and suspension settings, which are (really), much more of an influence in the driving experience when at the limit.
marcosmcodas 2 months ago
Ciao, mi sono appena iscritto al tuo canale, hai dei contenuti interressanti, ed ho piacere di rimanere aggiornato, grazie.
se ti va mi farebbe piacere che anche tu dessi un occhiata al mio canale e che ti iscrivessi.
Grazie Mille
Marco
subscribe please
VideogooRimini 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I've just recently learnt to drive stick on my bros BMW 335i - his lease was ending in a few days and he had already picked himself up a new toy haha, so he didn't care if I killed the clutch (I didn't lol)
rororooster 2 months ago
Ive driven GTR's around a track, and lotus' as well. I'd take an Exige over a gtr any day of the week- I love the sensation of a manual car.
Oh and gated shifters ftw
rororooster 2 months ago
@rororooster The manual car is a great sensation but if I want a track toy, its paddles for me. For the road, I say I would love me a nice manual v8 vantage.
ztunelover 2 months ago
I get what you guys are saying, However, When I drive in my car with a 5 spd manual, I instantly try to become a better driver, making shifts smoothly, quicker, memorize the rev limiter, keep enough rpm going on the curve for max exit speed on the off ramps and as soon as I get on the freeway is max MPG with avg speed, coasting and stretching those MPGS.
mayinss 2 months ago
JF, shave and put on a collered shirt, stop looking so dirty.
Great show!
lionelubc 2 months ago
That topic could have used way more discussion.
arcer63 2 months ago
3:45
Don't forget the crazy Asian driver!!!!!!ME!!!!!!
dukie827 2 months ago
Comment removed
Spyker88 2 months ago
2 years ago when i just turned 16 and got my learners permit, my parents offered to buy me a car to learn to drive in and eventually own. they picked out a civic for me, i turned it down for a e30 318is - RWD, manual, no ABS, no traction control. i picked this car with the sole purpose of wanting to truly learn how to drive a car.
Yes i have spun out a few times. Yes ive had some close calls. but from them i have ACTUALLY learned how to control a car, and i am a better driver from it.
sushiinferno 2 months ago
if i drove 100 manual transmissions then drove a auto I'm going to be FAST
if i drove 100 auto's then went to back to an auto, Im not going to be AS fast
alexcockerill 2 months ago
Long live the manual.
jonsimcoe 2 months ago
I am all about the freedom of choice. If I want an AMG car, why can I not have the option of getting a manual? If I am dropping six figures on a Ferrari, why cant I choose my transmission? I understand why someone would want paddle shifters, I just don't understand why a six figure car cant have two transmission options. Are the companies getting that stingy?
brendanao 2 months ago
I take that back I like jf I just can't stand short people. All he does is bitch and act like a know it all in his soprano ass voice
tres311 2 months ago
Where's alex roy?! I really can't stand the everybody loves raymond and mr I hate being american so bad I killed my parents with a audi bring back the bald clown not leo hes a wanna be lewis black fun size edition
tres311 2 months ago
It's not so much a question of either-or. I.e., you can't really say either extreme is the best because it is dependent upon the application. In racing, the there will always be a level between raw driving feel and technology that will make for the best time. However, in any car where you're driving for pleasure, having no driver aides would probably the best option for the true driving enthusiast. Whereas, for the average driver, a high level of technology will probably actually aid the driver.
xMKIVxVR6x 2 months ago 2
This is why I love my RX8. It has DSC but it works with the driver in a way that you can feel it just saved your ass. The RX8 is very drivable even without DSC, it just takes careful throttle and steering input. If one isn't careful, he/she will feel like an F1 driver and then end up wrapping their car around a pole.
renesisrx8 2 months ago
Technology is good but u can't rely on it completely. For example the BMW m1, it doesn't slip in the rain but even if I know that it won't slip, I'll still drive carefully. Technology is like a back up
smp336 2 months ago
Alex Roy = ridiculous comments, idiotic comparisons, unvalued and unbacked opinions
Leo Parente = mothafucking F1 Professional Driver. Every time he opens his mouth he knows what he's talking about, and doesn't talk just to be heard and sound cooler than JF (which he fails at miserably)
MORE LEO PLZ!!!
spornicu 2 months ago 3
@spornicu **excuse the brackets**
spornicu 2 months ago
@spornicu Leo knows what is going on. He is actually right about Webber not in sync with the new launch of the RB7 this year. So he switched back to the more 'old school' starts he used with the RB6 last year, and found it worked better for him. Even though the newer way to launch should actually help.
ivz80 2 months ago
@spornicu Seriously. It's nice that this segment actually has some serious commentary and sensible comparisons to go with it instead of Alex Roy's annoying "I have to sound like I'm the coolest" instead of just talking about the damn topic. If that bald headed clown was off the show for good, I'd watch a lot more often.
prisoner1138 2 months ago
Hrm
Yeah, okay ABS can save commuter lives.
And yeah, tech can squeeze a half second out of a lap time.
But what does that half second cost? Aren't we hitting the law of diminishing returns? Why do cars need to be so expensive and heavy, so full of padding and performance-luxury (GTR)? Why is this arms race so important? Only in a consumer society, where status is derived from sticker price, does this happen. I'd take a car at 75% the cost that feels quick outside of a track.
GT86: here's hoping
doubleKlutch 2 months ago
I own a 94 silverado and my uncle a 06. The 06 is drive by wire and there is no consistent sensation of how the engine and tranny are going to react to accelerator position. Most of the time you push your foot down and hope its what you need, when you need it. On the 94, I always know how the truck is going to react. Where the power is, when its going to shift or downshift ect. With the 06 its a guessing game. Like playing a videogame.
LeakyDiaper 2 months ago
The tools are very good for us. Cars keep getting faster and people just get dumber. We all overestimate our level of skill. Even the best racers have accidents and I am glad there are safeguards in place to limit human error. In America they don't teach us to drive anymore only to pass a test. I do believe every driver needs to start off with a manual trans because it keeps you from being lazy and forces you to think. We have to face the fact one day no one will drive stick or offer it.
TBAGGZ1 2 months ago
AF 447 wasn't pilot error because they assumed the computers would save them. The computers were giving them the wrong info and AirBus's awesome computers that can and will override all pilot input is what crashed that plane. It went from 35,000 ft to the see in about 3 minutes. No pilot making a trans-Atlantic trip is stupid enough to let that happen.
/rant
Good conversation otherwise :)
stigger91 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
@stigger91 ***It went from 35,000 ft to the SEA in about 3 minutes.*** - fuck me lol
stigger91 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
We need to completely re-due our driver license test. cause most people out there shouldn't be driving.
TravisCO2009 2 months ago
I do think a manual transmission should be required for a driving test. It teaching the driver to understand the car and feel it, making better drivers. All the set is now, is do a little short cone test, drive around the block and your done. A trained monkey could take it.
On other technologies, i like them to an extent. I despise the new seniors in luxury cars for blink spot monitoring, and auto braking when it sense your coming in to fast. These train drivers to depend on tech.
GrizNews 2 months ago
I have only been in one car accident. If that car didn't have ABS I would have not been in that accident. I will never drive a car with ABS in it again. It's a hazard to people who actually know how to drive and it should not be a requirement.
eightbit3055 2 months ago
Are the tools good for us? Yes, bad driving festers if the technology is there or not; it's up to the driver to understand that training doesn't stop when you get your license.
NONo443 2 months ago
Yes these tools are good, but when they start to take away from the driver sensation, that is fun if driving they can become an annoying. Also when you drive a car and you dont know its limits is extremely dangerous. I say give people the option to turn these things on and off, so regular drivers can have a safe car, and driving enthusiast can have fun with the car.
ps if you arent driving a manual you arent driving :P
bigboy789inches 2 months ago
and i like this segment ALOT more in this format and with these two gentlemen
mrtyanthropocentrist 2 months ago
Fernando Alonso android robot coming soon, it'll drive car faster than you.
Driving days will soon pass and we all will be just along for the ride.
vsci79 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
have to be aware that tech can also take more of the human element out of racing.
mrtyanthropocentrist 2 months ago
Although i get what Leo is saying about liking technology as long as the feel for the car is still there, i have to agree and expand on the comment below by Elements153. The reason we watch sports (including motor-sports) of all kinds is because we enjoy witnessing feats of strength, agility and focus; and we like the drama of competition, the emotions of winners and losers, sportsmanship etc. Although tech in racing is surely a plus in many instances, we (enthusiasts) and racing communities
mrtyanthropocentrist 2 months ago
Sooner or later, Radar Guided cruise control and automatic braking would be required by safety regulations.
Both are already available in the Volvo S60 and maybe after a few years, compacts like the Ford Fiesta and the Hyundai will have them.
Take note, even a drunk guy could drive an S60 thanks to those features. Now imagine if all cars have em.
mondeost2202008 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
I say put it back on the manufacturers who produce rubbery, isolated manual transmissions that are no fun and are nothing but a pain to drive.
Affordable example? Miata and S2000 manuals: These transmissions ruined me for their feel (true they are rwd chassis). By comparison in the price range (will the FR-S feel as good?), there is no joy in manual shifting. Why not go automatic? And if you go that direction, why not DSG; the best of it's affordable class?
Bezor101 2 months ago
Also, staying dependent on technology will only get us into trouble and cause the cars to get bigger and bigger because they'll require space to put the technology. If you're going down the road and your ABS goes haywire, will you know how to react then or will you have been too conditioned on relying on it? Same goes for TPMS. If you take preventative steps by checking your PSI every other fill up and getting them rotated regularly, where's the problem and why need TPMS?
TheDirtyGoatee 2 months ago
Sure, tech is good but there is nothing better from feeling of changing gears our self, Yes you are slower on the track but be honest, how many of us take everyday car to track and how often those 0.3 sec difference per lap matter?
marcinrokicki 2 months ago
Also, technology will never completely save us. For instance, today in Arkansas, it rained. I was getting onto the interstate and a newer styled Jeep Liberty was getting on ahead of me. It took the corner not even at a slow pace as I was in my rental Taurus and was keeping pace. It slipped, and the ass went out and they wound up in the ditch. I wasn't a douche and stopped to help. However, where was technology to the rescue there?
TheDirtyGoatee 2 months ago
Screw paddle shifters. I'm a purist, give me a manual stick anyday.
TheDirtyGoatee 2 months ago
i think all the tech in cars today has made us lazy. there are some people who shouldn't drive aggressively/fast simply because there not good at it. all the technology in cars today allow anyone and everyone to drive how they want and to push the limits of their car. most people do this with no previous training or practice.
in my opinion the technology on cars is making driving too easy and therefore making the roads more dangerous.
Drcorywilson23 2 months ago
you cannont love driving and hate manual
PRproduct 2 months ago
I personal hate manual, i awlays dreed having to drive a manual wheather its a truck or sedan.
grw830 2 months ago
Comment removed
Drcorywilson23 2 months ago
Tools of Driving:... I learned to drive a car, then I learned to drive a stick shift. I'm a better driver for it. Then I learned to drive cars with "computer assist". I think like every mechanics tool box the more tools the better. The ability to drive comes first then learning to better yourself and make the roads safer is inherant with advances in technology.
StreetMachine18 2 months ago
@SkoalBoy93 I completely agree
I want my quick car to be a manual
by quick I mean most of the cars that are street legal
and my race car to be a paddle shifter.
example A manual on an M3
and a paddle on a track tuned GTR
PRproduct 2 months ago
I understand that the padel shifters are fast on a track, easier, and help you focus more on the road.. and i like the fact that technology advances in racing. But Racing... is a sport ! And i believe that for a sport to be a real sport, it has to be competative and it needs to involve skill. Thats the the manual shifter comes into play. The more skill that is involved with the SPORT of RACING, the more entertaining and challenging it will be. Hands down.
Elements153 2 months ago
for a daily driver no car should have FULL computer assists because for heavens sake there are gonna be those ppl in the world (like they mention in the video) that just rely on that and end up killing multiple ppl,
just like a story i heard a little while back this guy with a motor home put it on "cruise" got out of his seat and went n made lunch and ended up driving off a cliff
butwhytharum 2 months ago
Im 18 and i drive a Cobalt SS/NA and yeah its not a fast car. Yeah it will get up and go quick but not fast beyond any means. But a 5 speed manual makes it feel fast.... Just somthing about slamming it into the next gear at 6000 rpm that just makes that morning commute something to wake up to every morning.
SkoalBoy93 2 months ago
Its been a long time since I gave the "like" button some love on FLD but times have changed!
need4speedx4 2 months ago
things like traction control are necessary for the everyday driver, and they can save you in sticky situations, for example, i have a 10 year old mustang, and in the wet, the back loves to slide around. on my commute this morning, i accelerated slightly vigorously, and the tc kicked in. i would have been able to deal with sliding around because i race my car, but the average joe probably would have spun and crashed
TheKipinator 2 months ago
Leo is spot on about having the paddles on the race track
and manual in less serious situations
I prefer manual over paddle nearly 100% of the time, and have a manual as my daily driver,
but, with the amount of speed modern race cars experience, due to increased technology, there needs to be a focus on the track, as opposed to shifting.
These road testaments with Leo are outstanding, with every video he has been in I have had a definite understanding and position of the argument. MORE LEO
PRproduct 2 months ago
boring!
eyelesskiller8 2 months ago
What happened to the FLD episodes 5 days a week as they announced yesterday
residentapple 2 months ago
Leo ur awesome
varunjaitly360 2 months ago
I miss the living room setting
win616 2 months ago
my cousin had a crappy 20 year old car and she drove down the street at 25mph. now she's got a new car of the same class and she's driving at 50mph. she's not a better driver than before. she flew off the road and crashed it already.
the new car is more powerful and with all the gizmos you don't sense the speed like in the old car. you need the tech to stay alive in a crash but you wouldn't have had the crash if the car was older and more basic because you'd be driving is more slowly.
kmica2008 2 months ago
Drivers in the good ol' USA and elsewhere have already lost a lot of skills, or never had them to begin with. Recall the "cop" who couldn't remember/know to take the car out-of-gear when the throttle got "stuck". He drove for several minutes before killing himself & his family.The more 'tools' the common driver has at their disposal the more skills will be lost....period. Soon however, our cars will merely drive themselves anyway.watch it happen...mandated by the government of course.
RichardEllisxyz 2 months ago
@RichardEllisxyz good thing that it takes the government a while to do things then lol
IndentV 2 months ago
"Turn headlights on, turn turning signals on, drive forward, drive reverse. OK now parallel park" congratulations you now have a license! you make now unleash your total lack of knowledge on to innocent by-standards! im on the road all day, & i have to experience several near accidents everyday. u-turns from the far lane, swerving into oncoming traffic, full speed reverse into my truck, ive seen it all :\
Hondaminican 2 months ago
Nice North Face JF! Must be cold in the studio today!!
oneofakind32 2 months ago
NO MORE DRIVER AIDES!!!!!!!!!!! Americans are horrible drivers as is. make getting a license more challenging to attain.. instead of making the cars easier to drive. you know why tire pressure monitoring exist? because people couldnt take the time to check their TP's and kept rolling over their SUV's.. its F*CKING ridiculous.
Hondaminican 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Are the tools good for us? Well, who's "us"? The great majority of drivers shouldn't even be on the road, so, including them, yes. Thank goodness, they need all the aid they can get (because face it, there won't be any change in how easy it is to get a license in the USA). If by "us" you mean those that enjoy driving and have just a tad of ability, things like TC are probably bad. Performance in the right hands is the ultimate safety feature. TC takes that away from the capable driver.
neostardust 2 months ago
Comment removed
neostardust 2 months ago
I love the SST (dual clutch) in my Evo X, especially when I get stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic! But despite being 'computer controlled', you still need to match your speed/engine speed when shifting, otherwise it's jerky as hell. I can still drive a manual, I simply chose not to.
ozziebob 2 months ago
WOW i was having this conversation yesterday... NO i dont think the tools are good for us, i say that even lower end high performance cars, like the 370z or the E92 M3 (not saying they are in the same class, they are just examples) The E92 makes somewhere over 400 hp (414?) no normal person should be able to just hop into that car and drive the hell out of it, it should be dangerous and scary, but instead im sure (havent driven one) it lets u beat it and it wont fight u... i think thats wrong..
Ty280z 2 months ago
Technology helps people, but it just takes time. Few years back I'd own stick over autos for the reasons that autos doesn't shift fast enough, isn't in the gear that I want, uses more fuel, and just plain can't goes as fast. Now it does, why not. It's like saying, I don't want to use my right hand, it does things too efficiently. In a few more years, in racing there'd be no talk. As for fun factor, look at "Dukes of Hazzard." If you really love driving, you can have fun in anything you drive.
jamesrhs 2 months ago
My twi cents..Im with Leo for the most part, but the bigger question should be is the technology market driven, or a result of govmt regulation? IMO, all this "safety" crap on new cars drive the cost up, make the car heavier, and in regular driving conditions arent warrented. Put a moron driver in a "safe" car, you still have a moron driver. Technology is great, but there are those who like the alternative.
dzlfreek 2 months ago
Shifting is part of driving - paddle-shifters remove that aspect from the equation and make it easy. I want to go faster because of me, not because of the tech in the car. I can understant tech into F1 and other professional forms of motor racing, but for me, I want to get better as a driver on my own merits.
cobachaamplia 2 months ago 8
Tools are great but , you have to be taught ,at first, to drive with out them to get a real feel of what a car is ,driving dynamics bases & how these tools actually help you.
Tools ease the hustle of every day journey's but they ought to make it possible to switch them off , with out hacks & tricks, for that once in a week joy ride....
No11Scalpel 2 months ago
With regards to Webber; You can't say "this may not be true" because it obviously is true that Vettel can balance the car and sense what it is doing much better. We all agree that they have the same tools and technology within the car... there then it all comes down to the driver, and in this case Vettel interacts with and has proven that he can better manipulate/use the race car in a superior manner.
XXXdc5 2 months ago
manual trans beats auto or cvt any-day in my book. because when i drive and auto or a cvt i cannot get that feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction i get when i drive a manual car (especially 90's to 00"s cars) . but if i am driving like a van or a Tahoe or something where i expect to relax and be comfortable i really don't mind and auto. But i think any car with less than 250 hp should come with a manual; because that is the only way to get the car moving and be able to use all the power
bullseye1670 2 months ago