Lame. They should have kept the information. Regardless of how the information was obtained, it is still information that can do potential good. Many people died against their will for Crell's experiments. At the very least, their suffering should not be in vain. I say keep the information, and make good use of it.
Janeway and crew had previously been fine with using Borg technology. Since they know the Borg invent nothing but only assimilate from other species, they knew they were using knowledge obtained in ways just as bad as this Cardassian. So what's the difference? As in real life, the Voyager crew are only moral when they can't personally benefit. Torres at least had the guts to say no. Shouldn't the Doctor, really, have deleted the program and not treated her?
@davenielsen78 That's an excellent point... I hadn't considered that before. You're absolutely right. The Borg technology was obtained through the deaths of countless millions of lives. Using the same logic the Doctor applied, it would invalidate the use of Borg technology. Another glaring inconsistency from a troubled series (I still enjoyed it, though).
@informant007 Yes, despite the flaws I also still liked it. I've actually liked all the Trek series even though they were all flawed to varying degrees.
There is a fallacy in the doctor's logic. The destruction of what was learned from those experiments has no benefit. You cannot forget what was done. It is the past and cannot be undone. Destroying the data does not improve the situation in the least. Where the atrocity would be is in *continuing* the experiments. As long as that is not done, there is no problem. People died, albeit unwillingly, to provide that data. Destroying it is like an insult to them.
@informant007 Plus it's funny he chooses to do that only after using that knowledge. All he's done is deny anyone else its benefit. Though not really, because as you pointed out he can't forget. Really he should have deleted the knowledge from his own memory as well.
Star Trek is showing off its ability to commit the genetic fallacy here. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. So besides destroying medical knowledge that could prevent untold deaths, what's preventing someone else from recreating those same horrific experiments to find a cure for that same illness, thus compounding the amount of needless deaths? Nothing, that's what. So is this ending really the desired outcome Voyager was shooting for? :/
Conducting experiments in the way described is obviously evil beyond anything, but I also don't see how it can be ethical or sensible not to use the information gathered by such experiments once they are available. There is someone in front of you who is suffering and dying, but you're not going to use the medical knowledge you have to save them because of the way it was obtained. That's insane!
@ukchristian28 I guess they figure it might be seen as condoning what was done and might possibly validate any future work as morally reprehensible - "the end justifies the means" kind of thing. Still, the Doctor only deleted the program after his patient had been saved. All he's done is doom anyone in a similar situation in the future, and possibly (depending on how far another Doctor might go to save someone) causing the same horror to be repeated.
0:41 shows just how dumb this episode really is. If that is ethically wrong then the only way to live a proper ethical life is to go live in a cave.
It's even worse to think it's coming from a show based on the exploration of space. I mean where do you think the technology that makes Voyager possible comes from?
I am not defending what that guy did to those people but if it can help someone why destroy what he learned? It's really foolish, noble but foolish.
So, it is okay to do medical experiments on chimps--only a hairline away from humans, but not on humans who have one or two percent of their genes different from the chimps! Really "ethical", aint it?
You have GOT to be joking. That movie was TERRIBLE and its portrayal of Kirk and Spock when younger ran counter to EVERYTHING we know about them from TOS and the movies. Just stupid.
You have GOT to be joking. That movie was TERRIBLE and it's portrayal of Kirk and Spock when younger ran counter to EVERYTHING we know about them from TOS and the movies. Just stupid.
@Paulpazymino I KNOW THE NEW MOVIE WAS THE WORST THING TO COME OUT OF THE STAR TREK FRANCHISE. I HOPE GENE RODENBERRY "THE GREAT BIRD OF THE GALAXY' IS SPINNING IN HIS GRAVE.
so J.J. screwed up with alias and lost but i think he did a damn good job with the latest star trek movie, now i know how kirk and spok become friends, even if it was in a alternate reality.
Had the ship's doc been present during the time of the cardassian experiments, the experiments themselves would have gone differently. All lives would have been saved, with no (humanoids?) sacrificed. Therefore, functioning as a team, they are morally innocent. He should not have deleted the cardassian.
I think the bigger problem here is that the Doc insists on punishing an innocent hologram for the sins of a person upon which he was based. It's like executing a child because his father was a murderer.
The Nazis did experiments on people but we didn't throw away their research when the war was over. We kept it and used it because even though it was acquired in a terrible way destroying it would have benefitted no one, least of all the people who suffered for it.
Gotta love Cardassians.
reapfreak 2 weeks ago
Lame. They should have kept the information. Regardless of how the information was obtained, it is still information that can do potential good. Many people died against their will for Crell's experiments. At the very least, their suffering should not be in vain. I say keep the information, and make good use of it.
IMAGIMATIONanimation 3 months ago
Janeway and crew had previously been fine with using Borg technology. Since they know the Borg invent nothing but only assimilate from other species, they knew they were using knowledge obtained in ways just as bad as this Cardassian. So what's the difference? As in real life, the Voyager crew are only moral when they can't personally benefit. Torres at least had the guts to say no. Shouldn't the Doctor, really, have deleted the program and not treated her?
davenielsen78 6 months ago 2
@davenielsen78 That's an excellent point... I hadn't considered that before. You're absolutely right. The Borg technology was obtained through the deaths of countless millions of lives. Using the same logic the Doctor applied, it would invalidate the use of Borg technology. Another glaring inconsistency from a troubled series (I still enjoyed it, though).
informant007 5 months ago
@informant007 Yes, despite the flaws I also still liked it. I've actually liked all the Trek series even though they were all flawed to varying degrees.
davenielsen78 5 months ago
The Doc is such an advocate for hologram equality too, yet he deleted one.
101101101777 6 months ago
@101101101777 One whose defence was I think pretty airtight - he personally didn't commit any crimes.
davenielsen78 6 months ago
There is a fallacy in the doctor's logic. The destruction of what was learned from those experiments has no benefit. You cannot forget what was done. It is the past and cannot be undone. Destroying the data does not improve the situation in the least. Where the atrocity would be is in *continuing* the experiments. As long as that is not done, there is no problem. People died, albeit unwillingly, to provide that data. Destroying it is like an insult to them.
informant007 7 months ago
@informant007 Plus it's funny he chooses to do that only after using that knowledge. All he's done is deny anyone else its benefit. Though not really, because as you pointed out he can't forget. Really he should have deleted the knowledge from his own memory as well.
davenielsen78 6 months ago
Star Trek is showing off its ability to commit the genetic fallacy here. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. So besides destroying medical knowledge that could prevent untold deaths, what's preventing someone else from recreating those same horrific experiments to find a cure for that same illness, thus compounding the amount of needless deaths? Nothing, that's what. So is this ending really the desired outcome Voyager was shooting for? :/
ApemanD 8 months ago 2
@ApemanD
That is an excellent point I had not considered before.
ukchristian28 6 months ago
Conducting experiments in the way described is obviously evil beyond anything, but I also don't see how it can be ethical or sensible not to use the information gathered by such experiments once they are available. There is someone in front of you who is suffering and dying, but you're not going to use the medical knowledge you have to save them because of the way it was obtained. That's insane!
ukchristian28 1 year ago 2
@ukchristian28 I guess they figure it might be seen as condoning what was done and might possibly validate any future work as morally reprehensible - "the end justifies the means" kind of thing. Still, the Doctor only deleted the program after his patient had been saved. All he's done is doom anyone in a similar situation in the future, and possibly (depending on how far another Doctor might go to save someone) causing the same horror to be repeated.
davenielsen78 6 months ago
Comment removed
ukchristian28 1 year ago
0:41 shows just how dumb this episode really is. If that is ethically wrong then the only way to live a proper ethical life is to go live in a cave.
It's even worse to think it's coming from a show based on the exploration of space. I mean where do you think the technology that makes Voyager possible comes from?
I am not defending what that guy did to those people but if it can help someone why destroy what he learned? It's really foolish, noble but foolish.
spectre111 1 year ago 2
where is the rest of this episode??
hotboyclarence 1 year ago
So, it is okay to do medical experiments on chimps--only a hairline away from humans, but not on humans who have one or two percent of their genes different from the chimps! Really "ethical", aint it?
hotboyclarence 1 year ago
lol, burn some books to celibate an acknowledgement of torture.
GOOD CALL
ILIKESFLAN 1 year ago
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You have GOT to be joking. That movie was TERRIBLE and its portrayal of Kirk and Spock when younger ran counter to EVERYTHING we know about them from TOS and the movies. Just stupid.
Paulpazymino 1 year ago
You have GOT to be joking. That movie was TERRIBLE and it's portrayal of Kirk and Spock when younger ran counter to EVERYTHING we know about them from TOS and the movies. Just stupid.
Paulpazymino 1 year ago
@Paulpazymino I KNOW THE NEW MOVIE WAS THE WORST THING TO COME OUT OF THE STAR TREK FRANCHISE. I HOPE GENE RODENBERRY "THE GREAT BIRD OF THE GALAXY' IS SPINNING IN HIS GRAVE.
afreedman1776 9 months ago
so J.J. screwed up with alias and lost but i think he did a damn good job with the latest star trek movie, now i know how kirk and spok become friends, even if it was in a alternate reality.
cxtreme69 1 year ago
LOL This is one of the dumbest arguments Trek has ever made.
szfski 1 year ago
Had the ship's doc been present during the time of the cardassian experiments, the experiments themselves would have gone differently. All lives would have been saved, with no (humanoids?) sacrificed. Therefore, functioning as a team, they are morally innocent. He should not have deleted the cardassian.
creepymeepy 3 years ago
I think the bigger problem here is that the Doc insists on punishing an innocent hologram for the sins of a person upon which he was based. It's like executing a child because his father was a murderer.
Gammaclipper 3 years ago
The sins of our fathers... *hangs head*
0o0oWOLFo0o0 3 years ago
No, there's no punishment; he would have been deleted after surgery anyway.
Waranoa 2 years ago
It's all relative.
Gammaclipper 3 years ago
LOL... until it's your friend or family. Then its REALLY relative!
AmazonWatch 3 years ago
The Nazis did experiments on people but we didn't throw away their research when the war was over. We kept it and used it because even though it was acquired in a terrible way destroying it would have benefitted no one, least of all the people who suffered for it.
Gammaclipper 3 years ago
The Nazis were atleast prosecuted. The Japanese did experiments too on American and Chinese POWs.
niuchemist 3 years ago