The Liberty Roundtable #1: Education and the State

[PurpleHoneyBear]

Wait, is this the same Wes Bertrand from Healthy Mind - Fit Body? IF so, that is awesome!

[TinoTaliTintti]

stef made a funny face at 0:33:50

[MrChrisBlizzard]

Very interesting discussion - just subscribed to Wes and Brett's podcasts. Cheers guys!

[libertyandjustice]

I completely agree with the analysis around 34:00 by Brett and then Stef - After studying sociology and criticizing structures and using scientific thinking I reasoned that they can't teach this in school because it would criticize and "dissolve" their authority

[libertyandjustice]

I think that adolescents at least teenagers ask why school has to be structured like it is and why do I have to learn what someone else wants me too. I think this is one reason we see teenagers searching for answers online to questions not covered in school. When I was in highschool I certainly questioned the structure of school and imagined that it was just military training for a desk job -- turns out it was.

[DrBakshandeh]

Listen to the Doctor school sucks I've been through it.

[rmcc0002]

stef,

What software do you use to get the tri-video screen? Very cool.

[SchoolSucksPodcast1]

@rmcc0002 he is using oovoo, works pretty well. i think it costs money though for more than 3 people but 2 or 3 person chat is free.

[dingerness]

Stef, what would you tell your daughter if she asked you what YOU thought about God, after you had her reason for herself? Does this undermine your effort to not teach her conclusions?

[stefbot]

I would teach her honesty by telling the truth...

[andrewh817]

Another problem I have with the reward/punishment "technique" is that it doesn't explain why what the child is doing is unfavorable. If you are attempting to create morality based on the amount of rewards or amount of punishment one receives for an action then you are actually leading the child towards at the very least a world of confusion.

[juliecranford]

my art classes were controlled. we always had specific assignments. anyway, i wouldn't have known how to "express" myself with crayons. or paint. or whatever.

actually, once, when we were allowed to draw whatever we wanted, I wrote out the lyrics to a song.

[juliecranford]

School spend the first 8 years or so destroying your creativity and then in high school they start to tell you that you have to be creative and think "outside the box" and they act like it's your own fault that you can't do it.

[juliecranford]

I was in day care from babyhood, so that's probably why I, for one, didn't question the set-up of school.

[zonsb]

Great discussion. Thanks.

[zonsb]

Most everyone abides the non aggression principle in their everyday lives.

"Learning is finding out what you already know, Doing is demonstrating that you know it, Teaching is reminding others that they know it as well as you do. We are all learners, doers, and teachers." -Richard David Bach

The person who initiates force abandons reason in favor of rule of the jungle where no beast or reptile honors contracts.

I don't ask you to topple the beast. Withdraw your support and he'll collapse.

[atrickpay11]

Is this new? I think I might have listened to a podcast of this. Or am I thinking of the interview Stef did with Brett Veinotte?

[stefbot]

this is new...

[buff001]

Stef, you should do standup comedy... hahaha...

[1mealperday]

something you all miss. as a human having to live i must prepare for the future. As spirit i see there is only now. As a human i am a body. reality says i am an awareness between all the molecules of the moment. Choices are made according to our state of conciousness. Good and bad is culturally learned.

[escapethecollapse]

Great stuff! I'm wondering what Stef keeps looking at to his right?

[FUZZYisBIG]

probaly where the screen is.

[stefbot]

the chat room, for feedback...

[RichardDeziel]

I watch the whole brilliant video in one sitting.  it's that good! Wonderful to discover Wes and Brett contributing to free themselves and therefore others!

[datalorez]

I hope you someday decide to write a book once your little girl has grown up a bit. I think it would be helpful for the world to see first-hand how important good parenting is. And you should totally sell out with that book and actually make some cash Stef... you deserve it :D

[datalorez]

Ohhh this could be fun.

The links in the sidebar are missing a few characters.

[SirFrancisDashwood15]

The fellows left out one example of punishment/reward: Wives often use this method with husbands. There have even been books written along the lines of How To Dog Train Your Husband. But, of course, females are exempt from criticism (because males are 'taught' that fems have Choice and are never wrong) in our modern Dark Age of the Female. Orwell wrote that females make the most ardent fascists, thus they fit in well with our oppressive, Statist society. Fear the female--boo!!....hehehe.

[pelucas716]

what is a methodology for thinking tho ? i agree with everything u guys say about everything lol. and on top of that, i think that one line by stef on how we r not thought how to think reeeally hits home. i find that the more i learn through u guys, the more ridiculous and frustratingly annoying highschool gets. and to be honest i cant wait to get out. id like to just dish school and home school my self, and i like to think id do a better job :P, grate convo

[stefbot]

An excellent question my friend, you might want to check out my free "introduction to philosophy" series, available here on YouTube, it might be just what you are looking for -- and stay strong with school, it does get better... :)

[datalorez]

I agree, high school does suck.

I've always been very good at picking things up in school. I slept through pretty much everything Trig and Calculus class that I took... then crammed for tests and ended up doing really well.

But take my advice. Do as best you can at playing "the game" in High School and College. Even though all you are really after is a piece of paper that says you finished, it's going to help you in the long run.

Also, continue to learn and explore outside of it as well.

[pelucas716]

lol hey stef, its funny cuz i just recommended some guy to the same series u just recomended me to :P. he was going on and on about the hampeh theory guy and we had a decent convo so i sent him ur way :). i will take a look at it too  again tho having this in mind now see what new i get it out if. keep it up, and im defenatedly interested in hearing some alternatives, cuz they way things look now i dont want to send my kids there... even tho its probably.. hopefully gona be a while til then :)

[pelucas716]

and ty for the support there datalorez. uugh its frustrating, i wish i had stayed in the safty of math an trig and stuff but ive drifted away into the swamp of english and psychology and crazyness :P, all i learn is theory names, usless sociology terms and some theories. nothing even close to what ive learned out side of school. but anyways i will keep at it, becouse is the best path available and i apreciate ur understanding :) gl

[Visfen]

I was pretty much raised on a no reward, no punishment basis. At least as far as I can understand.

My mother used to tell me "I'm leaving the playground now, so if you want to come with you have to go now", and I never went. There simply was no point in trying to punish or reward my behavior because I did what I wanted to anyway.

I go to school now and I don't want to learn what I "should", I learn what I want. Even though I'm studying engineering I read learn economics and philosophy.

[DigitalSkyline]

Wow ... what nonsense.

"Respect the child as you do an adult"...

Want to see what happens when you do that? Liberalism run amok... Look at Detroit.

Kids who have no discipline are raised with zero knowledge of right and wrong... future politician or inmate.

Carrot and stick works. Structure works.

Liberalism and freewheeling anarchy is entirely unproductive to human society as a whole.

You are the ones who are up-side down. Misguided fools.

[UcanbeGOD]

"RIght and wrong" are bullshit concepts and the do not exist.

[PanzerDivisionBOM]

If human beings are not responsible for their actions, then what is the purpose of your post? Surely, such a thing as an argument is also a "bullshit concept", seeing as this man can in no way be held accountable for his previous post?

[UcanbeGOD]

I didn't say human beings aren't responsible but merely that the actions taken are nothing but actions and not "immoral". Lets say that there was freewill and morality there would still be no more purpose to anything.

[PanzerDivisionBOM]

OK, so what you're saying is that while we are indeed responsible for our actions, and that it is therefore possible to judge a man by his actions in a rational manner, but that there is no rational standard against which man's action can be judged? How does that work?

[UcanbeGOD]

Does morality equal rationality? There are many things that may be rational for a person to do but would be considered highly immoral. Your statement also presupposes that one should be rational. Why should they be?

[Kawlinz]

If that's the case, then there's no point in condemning someone for saying that something is right or wrong. If someone wants to say that right and wrong are facts, you can't say that it would be wrong to state them as facts, as you'd be appealing to the values that you are stating are invalid.

[UcanbeGOD]

I am stating it as logically wrong. There is a difference between saying that the sky is yellow and saying doing drugs is wrong/immoral. The sky can be observed and its color proven, but there is no basis for saying a thing is immoral.

[stefbot]

If you are against lying, then you are advocating morality...

[UcanbeGOD]

If you equate morality with personal preference. I am also against bad jokes, is that a moral claim?

[pelucas716]

:) well there is a diference btween doing drugs and claiming that the sky is yellow. the claim that the sky is yellow, is an absolute and there for applies to morality and well its oviously wrong ( unles im color blind.. or daltonic). however. doing drugs is a personal preferense. its unhealthy but its ur choice. as long as u dont chub chronic down people's throaghts ur good :). ( morally at least) take a look at stefan's UPB man. recomend it

[BIackOp]

Liberalism =/= Anarchy.

Anarchy is free voluntary human interaction, its the only thing productive. Its what creates societies. Statism is entirely unproductive, a false certainty, and a Coercive Monopoly.

[newperve]

Umm... where in Detroit is there a large group of people who are respecting their children as adults. Your claim that future politicians or inmates are raised with no discipline is puzzling, most inmates are raised by people who use a lot of discipline, especially physical. I don't know about politicians but I've never heard of one raised without discipline.

[domaineer]

Do you realize that what happens in Detroit is due to the archy and not anarchy? So far as I know, Detroit has a mayor and is in a state with a governor in a country with a president.

You can also thank government schools for them running "amok".

Respecting a child like a child up until he turns 18 is a recipe for disaster. You'd have set him back 18 years. He ends up not knowing how to make his own choices among other setbacks.

-14 for you. Lowest I've seen in a while.

[erdal0]

eminem on the left