If your worried about if their innocent how about make them talk with drugs Hyoscine, Sodium Pentothal, Pscyological trickery like Fear of what we might do to them, Alcohol get them drunk etc, then when they spill the beans we kill them, another good thing since overly sensitive & stupid liberal Americans get upset lets send teams thru out the world looking for terrorists & when we find them kill them on the spot then get rid of the bodies & don't allow Americans & the News to hear about it.
If the world doesn't want us to torture & kill them it's so simple all they have to do is DON"T FUCK WITH US. I don't feel sorry for any ASSHOLE who does. understand one thing about people, THEY ARE STUPID if they think they can get away with shit they will try, the so called wild west was not so wild they hanged criminals the CITIZENS DID NOT TOLERATE CRIME, now we baby criminals guess what? CHAOS, ANARCHY, CRIME, TERRORISM, PERVERSION, LIBERALISM, GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION & OPPRESSION Like it?
Torture is bad but I'm not against it. If I had the power I would only torture people like Anders Behring Breivik. Live on TV torture to death. This will show people what will happen if they don't use their brains... But I'm against what USA is doing. You can't know 100 percent if they are terrorists. I bet a lot not guilty people get tortured to...What we do know about Anders Behring Breivik.
Eventhough he of course is a murderer and an asshole it ould be wrong to do that. EVERY HUMAN, even murderers have Natural Rights: The right to live and the right of unharmed dignity of that live.
@jerome96114 Trust me, society would be better. Because of such example of what will happen if you do this,... Did you ever saw jails in Norway? It's damn vacation there... (see video) You are believer aren't you (God) ? let's put it this way... Who don't give a shit about Natural Rights should not have any...I'm just saying that he must feel the pain of those 77 victims and their parents. Live on TV execution. Murderers will think twice then before doing crap. /watch?v=VyiodSMNv4E
obama is just as bad... wait no I lie, He is much worse. he can just say it suave... where bush didnt have the brains so teh secret hand can get away with more. Groomed by CIA since he was 20 to do what he is doing now. Fuck the NWO
there are no terrorists... just a few isolated retaliation against a very long oppression of people in middle east that began after world war two when USA economy began to grow exponentially and it needed oil to support this growth.
@thumbsup95 oh dear...how would they know they're 100%? Do you know how many people get out of Guantanamo after getting tortured? Plenty, proves something don't you think?
Torture....no, sensory deprivation....sure why not. Do you honestly think one of these mother fuckers desercves a nice couch and airconditioned condo while they await their fate?....... fuck them and what they did to our friends south of us.....screw them all
DON'T READ THIS CAUSE IT ACTUALLY WORKS. YOU WILL GET KISSED ON THE NEAREST POSSIBLE FRIDAY BY THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. TOMORROW WILL BE THE BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. HOWEVER IF YOU DONT POST THIS COMMENT ON AT LEAST 3 VIDEOS YOU WILL DIE WITHIN 2 DAYS.NOW YOU HAVE STARTED READING THIS DONT STOP THIS IS SCARY. PUT THIS ON AT LEATS 5 VIDEOS IN 143 MINUTES. WHEN YOU ARE DONE PRESS F6 AND YOUR LOVE OF YOUR LIFES NAME WILL APPEAR ON THE SCREEN IN BIG LETTERS. THIS IS SO CAUSE IT WORKS
My brother (a military specialist) got involved with torture of rendered terrorist suspects back in the mid-2000s- mostly observing, but occasionally ‘crossing the line’ into participation.
He’s now rightly seeking compensation from the govt., saying he can’t look into the eyes of his wife or kids without seeing the desperate fear of a human who knows he’s going to suffer hours of hideous pain & cruelty before an anonymous death. Of course the cowardly authorities have denied his claim.
THIS IS BEGINNING OF AMERICA UNFORTUNETLY, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THAT......GREED,LOOSING MIDDLE CLASS,JEWS MONEY AND THEIR LEADERSHIP ,NO EMPATHY FOR SMALL MAN,POLICE BRUTALITY--SPENDING WAY ,WAY TO MUCH ON USELESS WEAPON ETC WILL BRING ONE BIG,STRONGEST EMPIRE TO THE END ;TIME :5 TO 25 YEARS MOST + UNPREDICTABLE THINGS IF AND WILL HAPPEN WILL ACCELERATE THAT! LIKE EARTH YOU RAPE FOR CENTURY'S, EARTHQUAKES AL THAT NO ONE CAN STOP,I AM SORRY WE ALL WILL FEEL IMPACT,WITCH IS NOT FER!ALL BEST A
Let me sum it up for anyone who is going to watch this video, "gil smart(sic)" is saying that:
It is more important that one or a handful of persons, likely to be convicted of terrorism than not, be spared of pain, than to avert an attack and let innocents in public be killed.
Let's give them the same treatment they would give one of us if you don't agree with current methods! Severe torture and death is it? In fact, if you are concerned about current methods, hand them a family member, like your child, and see what wonderful people you are dealing with. They made their decisions. They are killers. They do not get the severe treatment the give to others. So ya, it doesn't matter.... Their torture isn't that severe
I quote from the movie Psycho (and Scream) "We all go a little mad sometimes." That's not necessarily to defend any form of torture "for a greater good" (or whatever other "excuse" a person may have), but if that was my child in the hands of a kidnapper/rapist, of course I'm going to wish the worst on the guy because what he just did is among the most unforgivable things a person can do in the eyes of ANY society. I could go further down the list with murder, terrorism, etc...you get the idea!
UK CITIZENS VERY URGENT - Babar Ahmad is the longest detained without trial British citizen, now in his eighth year behind bars fighting against extradition to the US. He was beaten up by the British police when he was arrested. We need 100,000 signatures by 10/11/11 and Parliament will debate putting Babar on trial in the UK where he is more likely to get a fair trial. Visit freebabarahmad website for the link. Please spread.
We are torturing people in our own prisons. Spraying them with pepper spray, using extreme unnecessary force, tazing, sensory depravation and denying them medical treatment. My brother just lost his 4 bottom teeth because of a treatable infection and that he was not allowed to see a doctor for after many requests. 3/4 of the people in prison with him are non violent criminals. Traffic violations and nonpayment of child support. We are doing this to our own people.
So the lives of a few people outway the lives of thousands of innocent men, women and children? Sorry I simply cant buy that. When "Torture" is performed by professionals with psychology degrees who can analysie someones mental state and attack them that way rather than mindless beatings and interogations has been proven to be effective. And the people being interogated USUALLY have connections with terrorists which brings them to the attention of the government. I wont loose sleep over it.
I am sorry but this guy like most Liberal fools lives with his head in the clouds. America can hold the higher moral plain and always be open to another attack like 9/11. Or it can roll up its sleeves and get down in the gutter with the nut jobs and actually try to beat these guys. And the fact that torture methods used in Gitmo or any were else have stoped more attacks plus led to the death of Bin Ladin is the only justification the US needs. Your moral outrage is your weakness
@legion860 You're wrong buddy. If you take a look at the evidence you will realize that torture that went on at Gitmo never extracted any valuable information.
@JamesIsKing30 Bin Ladin was tracked down because they got the name of one of the messengers he was using from prisoners at Gitmo and he in turn led them to Bin Laden.
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Anybody that says torture tactics in order to obtain life saving information is wrong, has never lost a loved one in a terrorist attack. It is easy to take the high road and say we are better then this when you have never experienced a terrorist attack. Even if it only works half the time, would you do it to protect your family?
Anyone who ever went into the Marines and made it all the way though was "tortured". Just go ask a Marine what it meant to watch TV. Ofcourse, if one went and .ooked at the part of the geneva convention in 1979-not ratified by our country dealing with those who commited warfare but not in a foeroign army(i.e. a chain of command,a unit, everyone wearing the same uniforms). In the end-if you were willing to die for your country-why would we not try to do all we could to get info from the enemy?
@daveme7 Yeah, you must be right - after all Hussain and Milosevich are good role models eh? Oh wait - didn't we topple them for torturing their people? Aren't we at war right now with countries because they did the same? It must be that cause it sure wasn't WMD's!
Or is tortue OK when we're using it - but nobody else is allowed? If we're gonna stand up and say 'we're civilised' and set an example - the example shldn't be torture and illegal detainment - period.
That is where people like you do notunderstand very much.In everything that happened in Iraq was not illegal in any wars wyhen we are fighting.In 1979 many countries ratified new laws for the Geneva convention.We did not. POW status are given to people in the military and this being defined as you are paid, given a uniform and training with a chain of command. By the way, then what about those whom were killed never brought to justice that saw those in the CIA assasinated by our enemies?
@TheMADisRAD there was never peace and happiness..i heard a saying, "war was created around the same time man was."...talking about the war,between the greater good/almighty creator/whichever you believe in and the devil/the greatest evil and stuff.
Good argument! not only does it sound like you thus qualify waterboarding to be on the low end spectrum of torture, but also that torture should be used proportionally, if it deems necessary, yes why not, pull out fingernails etc. I like it.
Okay. If the higher ups admitted it was a war crime, atop of the Bush Administration trial...
The reputation of the CIA would be destroyed, with international trials added for operatives. And if the CIA did survive this, it would be nearly impossible to operate the way it does now.
World politics would change for the worse, with both Iran and North Korea benefiting from this. Any alliances we would have left... Not sure.
And political factions would be even more fractured (or destroyed) here.
I read the "Considering the War-Crimes Trial of the Bush Administration" by Nat Henoff (The Village Voice). I also read up on the Geneva Convention, read up on the definition of torture, listened to experts on the subject, and experienced what waterboarding is meant to simulate.
That, and I also know what would have happened if a violation was admitted, and why the President Obama chose to allow a war crime to be ignored, as well as what the ramifications would have been. Shall I say more? Yes?
... a well-documented history of what we are convinced was a grand, concerted pattern to [commit the] barbarities which have shocked the world."
So yeah... Those who say otherwise need to experience these things in the same manner that they were done. Then you'll have a defense if you do not find anything that actually did happen to be torture. Those who bring up abortions need to read up on the other factors that do happen, as well as request this be controlled in some way. And me...
He also adds "..., [or exposed to systematic torture] . . . or for arresting thousands of civilians without direct cause and holding them indefinitely, incommunicado, in concentration-camp conditions."
The article also points out the arrest warrants in Italy for 25 CIA agents. Those who also avoided war crimes. But Harry Truman said it best: "The groundwork of our case must be factually authentic and constitute...
and the ones we collaborate with. Because if he allowed it, it would have split our already fractured political system into something far worse. And the rest of the world would not trust our country.
And it leads us to Nat Hentoff's October 1, 2008 article. He stated that in Philip Gourevitch's book Standard Operating Procedure (Palgrave Macmillan), he said "Nobody was ever charged with torture, or war crimes, or any violation of the Geneva Conventions."
told anybody about those cases. Either way, if you had anybody bully you and tried to make you feel like you are drowning, you'd call it torture. No matter what anybody else says, the overall effect is nothing less than torture. Then again, you can also drown by drinking a glass of water.
As for what the Government says... In 2008 and 2009, there are numerous reports on how this is a war crime. And in the end, President Obama asked that there not be a trial for the unity of our political powers
I had three idiots telling me that this is not torture. One of them worded it from officials that know it is, and so far none of these people have either looked up the ramifications of their admittance or the feeling that this tactic follows.
Waterboarding is nothing more than somebody dunking your head for a long time, allowing you to get some air. The effects I did mention are plausible due to those who end up being unlucky... And the U.S. Government either tries avoiding it, or have never
I'm getting disputes from spats who have listened to those who claim this is either hypocritical, or ignorable.
The hypocritical complaints should shut up as they can have the "abortion" issue need to realize that this is a practice that needs to be both regulated and controlled by medical boards. That way, the option of putting the child up for adoption, etc. is available. (That, and the pro-life people ignore the child abandonment rates, and worse. So... Yeah.) And the rest...
I know where the debate goes. Stop being weak and use the same methods afforded to American Soldiers. And the hell with the Geneva Convention. This idiot talks of moral standards. Moral based on what. Abortion- immoral or moral? Depends whom you ask. On and on and on. Don't give me morals when our own politicians who oppose these tactics don't have them (Weiner, Clinton,) etc. Torture the f**k out them. Maybe then they'll stop F*****g with us because they'll know whats coming.......
This is a situation by situation thing. If all other methods have failed then you have to do what you have to do to get the job done. Now the person who does "get" the job done should have to be held acountable for the crime he commited. There are some things that just have to be done rather they are right or wrong.
Fuck america...bunch of the biggest hypocrities on the planet....drone attacks in pakistan, illegal invasion of iraq, aghanistan, libya....WTF maan...do we need nazis...when we have americans
@majesticmaniac Check out the books you find on the Wuala link in the description of my films. They were written in the 1930s but still give an idea how Germany "works"
For an example of torture using modern techniques check out my english film about the Anneliese Michel "exrorcism" case. For brainwashing and steering techniques used against defendants in court look at my 2 films about Ulrike Meinhof and Jan-Carl Raspe
For Germany exporting its torture techniques to other states see my last film
Then you have the international relations. Those who already say it is torture is still willing to cooperate with this country. Now think what would happen if either/both the Justice Department and/or CIA did admit they permitted torture to be done. Added with the photos already shown, it would create an devastating ripple that would have our allies question our policies, as well as allow those who oppose us to use the facts as a way to be even more resistant. And so on, but it will be ignored.
This means that key members of the CIA would be on trial, current operations would have to be either handed over or discontinued, and other factors would happen. It would have more permanent damage within the agency. The Bush Administration portion would create a political rift, which President Obama did not want. It would create a rift between not just the two parties, but also within both parties - Making it hard to get anything done, especially if the American people do not trust them. (more)
As for the Justice Department and CIA excuses, here is the fact: President Obama asked that no war crimes trials be done. The only way to avoid this is by saying "waterboarding is not torture." Both departments obliged to this because if they did admit to it, more than a mere war crime would have happened. Both the Bush Administration and CIA department would have destroyed reputations - The CIA does not need this as it also means they have to make other similar operations become public. (more)
Well if you go based on the definition of torture then Marine Corps boot camp is torture in several different ways. I would ask NinjaPoeBear.. what exactly are the long term physical damages you are talking about? You keep saying that it causes them, but I'd like to know what exactly it does. I'm curious as I don't know.
@ReCLaIM25 The "prolonged" effects of waterboarding are based on the duration of doing it, and is not always meant to be permanent damage - It is made to be effective once the victim subjugates oneself to the effects. In this case, while being treated to "virtual drowning," one feels complete anxiety and the need to end it by creating "information." And if you ever felt forced anxiety and forced drowning, then you know this is torture.
@NinjaPoeBear so, what are the physical long term damages? You said there were, I'm just asking you to tell me. Anxiety is not considered a physical damage. IF you hadn't claimed it, I wouldn't be questioning you on it. So, what are the permanent physical damages? I'm going to say one more thing, but don't disregard that question. I bet if you've ever been beheaded you would think waterboarding was a piece of cake and not torture. Maybe its all relative?
@ReCLaIM25 You ARE kidding, right?! Think about it. What are the long term effects of drowning? There's laryngospasm, which can cause cardiac arrest. There's hypoxia, which causes lack of oxygen to the brain... Allowing temporary or permanent brain damage, or even brain death, as well as damage to the kidneys and the heart. And if they used salt water and did this long enough, it could thicken the blood. Because again... It replicates the effects of drowning, as stated by experts. (=_=)
@NinjaPoeBear The long term affects of drowning is not what we are discussing here. Laryngospasm is not a long term effect. Neither is cardiac arrest. Neither is Hypoxia.. It replicates the sensation of drowning.. not the effects of drowning. Matter of fact, in most cases you never actually get any water inside the person. Its the sensation that your body panics that causes the effect. Its not hypoxia, maybe some laryngospasm as you put it but again, I asked you for long term effects.
@NinjaPoeBear What are the damages to the kidney and heart of pouring water over someone's face? You make the claim, I'll ask you to explain it. Thats how this works. Since you like to claim a lot of things that don't actually answer the questions. For instance, long term effects.. you haven't named any.
@NinjaPoeBear - Torture as defined by the US Reservation of the UN Convention is inflicting prolonged mental harm. You are oversimplifying the situation & telling untruths to justify your agenda. Using the simple dictionary definition doesn't solve anything. Anyone can define torture in their own way, so we need a more specific definition for wartime situations. Also, your defintion from Google doesn't jive with waterboarding, since it doesn't inflict sever pain. GAME OVER - Try Again...
@michaelantonio and 98DevilDog79 - How about this as a game changer? People ranging from Senator John McCain to those who have experienced it at numerous levels have stated that it is torture. Numerous people who have experienced it have given exact details in what physical and psychological effects that they have experienced while being put into the numerous forms of waterboarding. And historical experts have backed up the fact it is torture. So try this. And you will see that they are right.
@Metallica You are confusing me & my friends with terrorists. I don't expect that you, me, or any other normal person should be subjected to waterboarding, no matter how traumatic. This type of technique is designed for very bad people who have information that can murder thousands. I was in the military, & they put us in a gas chamber, where I couldn't breathe & lost everything in my stomach within seconds. I know what it feels like to be put in a very uncomfortable situation.
Torture is defined as PERMANENT Physical AND mental harm. It has to be both of those things & cause permanent damage, or it cannot be considered torture. Waterboarding doesn't fall into this category, so it's NOT TORTURE !!!
tortures, plural The action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain Great physical or mental suffering or anxiety - the torture I've gone through because of loving you so A cause of such suffering or anxiety - dances were absolute torture because I was so small
The maker of this video should realize the slippery slope theorum applies to EVERYTHING. If we are to not make exceptions for the fear that doing so will lead to much worse things for example... We allow saline abortions - going by your logic that would lead to drownding born babies, why stop there, why not drownd 40 year olds or take it down a notch and waterboard terrorists. Not a well thought out arguement.
@98DevilDog79 I disagree with your lack of logic, I mean comment. The use of torture is a clear violation of the Geneva Convention, and was proven to do nothing but torture these people. The intelligence given were nothing but lies, and it was proven to be such. And "saline abortions"? What does that have to do with open violations that constitute as war crimes? What does something that should be taken to the medical boards compare to acts that made the U.S. become nothing more than a hypocrite?
@NinjaPoeBear The Justice Department ruled that waterboarding is not torture. "The intelligence given were nothing but lies" - logic would be enough for you to see this statment as ridiculous, however proof was acknowledged by Obama appointee CIA director Panetta - waterboarding Khalid gave us the list of couriers who lead us to Osama -it's not debatable. My point is we drownd babies till theyre dead, simulated drownding of mass murdering terrorists isn't worse, but then again I'm not a liberal
@98DevilDog79 You want to ignore my point? Really? The Geneva Convention clearly states that it is a form of torture. Senator John McCain protested against it, clearly noting it as torture. And if it was not for the intervention of President Obama, the Bush Administration (and those tied to this) would have been put on trial for war crimes. This, versus the fact I stated that your claim is something the medical board needs to review. Then again, I actually read up on my facts. Link below.
@98DevilDog79 Yet, Senator John McCain said: "I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading."
And also, according to experts, as well as Senator McCain, waterboarding is a form of torture.
@98DevilDog79 And on last thing... Former Vice-President Dick Cheney openly stated in an interview, which was published by a major magazine, that he does support the use of torture (when the requirements are met). This itself has him acknowledge that waterboarding IS torture, regardless of what you claim. And it also means that it is a violation of the Geneva Convention's third article.
Then again, I don't use the "I'm not a liberal/conservative" excuse when ignoring these facts like you did.
@NinjaPoeBear What you, me, the words of Dick Cheney's in my opinion you distort doesnt change the fact the Justice Department says it's not torture - they are the authority. These supposed facts are irrelevent, snoopy has as much clout on the subject of torture as Dick Cheney.
@98DevilDog79 Really? Distort? Wow. You have no grasp on reality. I mean seeing how the quote comes from a major magazine. That, and you also ignore every other expert across the globe that says it is torture.
And your defense? If your "expert" acknowledged the fact that it was torture, you know what would happen? You guess it - The entire Bush Administration and those tied to it would go to trial for allowing/performing war crimes.
Sad. But hey... Just continue being ignorant to the truth. ;3
@98DevilDog79 Senator John McCain (May 21, 2009): “When you have a majority of Americans, seventy-something percent, saying we shouldn’t torture, then I’m not sure it helps for the Vice President to go out and continue to espouse that position,” he said. “But look, he’s free to talk. He’s a former Vice President of the United States. I just don’t see where it helps.” (more)
@98DevilDog79 And then he got acerbic: Cheney, he says, “believes that waterboarding doesn’t fall under the Geneva Conventions and that it’s not a form of torture. But you know, it goes back to the Spanish Inquisition.”
But hey... Again... You listen to the "expert" and I'll listen to every person who has either performed it, experienced it, or witnessed it. That, and the fact the results fall under the actual definition of "torture" just says you, yourself, are the one being disillusioned. ;3
@NinjaPoeBear "You listen to the "expert" and I'll listen ... performed it, experienced it, or witnessed it." - there are over 450 special forces in duty today who have experienced it. We don't torture our own military so it doesnt sound like you are listening to anyone. "That, and the fact the results fall under the actual definition of "torture"" - except they don't. Waterboarding has no long term effects when done correctly. Again I have the Justice Department on my side, you have ziltch.
@98DevilDog79 Once again: "Waterboarding is a form of torture in which water is poured over the face of an immobilized captive, causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning." - Wikipedia
Look it up. It does permanent damage when done effectively. Your "450 experts" had to adapt to it in case they are captured. The rest you ignored know that it is torture. The Geneva Convention defines it as torture. And your only defense is based on the fact that a War Crime trial was avoided.
@98DevilDog79 Here is thing - Waterboarding has caused permanent damage. The Elite Forces go through a form of training that allows them to adapt, not be immune, to what it does.
And the U.S. Justice Department? Do you know what would have happened if they did acknowledge it as torture? The entire Bush Administration and portions of the CIA would be put on trial for numerous war crime violations. This would have created a major gap in political relations and segregate political parties. And...
@98DevilDog79 Another factor is your claims are bullshit. You have experts, historians, and those who experienced and know its extent to what it does. You are basing your claims on a group that is avoiding the ramifications tied to admitting that it is torture. A group that are trained to adapt to torture-based tactics if they are caught. And you act like something you know nothing about, nor have experienced, makes you an expert. I'll listen to the rest and even ask about these claims of yours.
@NinjaPoeBear Waterboarding does not cause permanent damage, we do not handicap our elite fighting forces which all get waterboarded. I understand your position, the US Justice Dept and I don't agree with you and every graduate of SERE training is a testament to the fact it's not torture and you are wrong. Tough shit.
@98DevilDog79 Special Forces: "Special forces, or Special Operations forces are terms used to describe elite military tactical teams trained to perform high-risk dangerous missions that conventional units cannot perform. Special Forces soldiers need to be physically and mentally robust and have the confidence, courage, and skill to operate individually or in small teams, often in isolation and in a hostile environment."
In other words... They have to be used to torture tactics, etc. 'Nuff said.
@NinjaPoeBear "In other words... They have to be used to torture tactics, etc. 'Nuff said" that's an oxymoron. Permanent damage - you don't get used to having your arm chopped off - it's doesn't grow back no matter how hard you train at getting it cut off - that's the definition of PERMANENT and the requirment for torture.
@michaelantonio The problem is that the THIRD ARTICLE of the Geneva Convention states that no harm shall go to any detainees during a time of war. Meaning that since we were at war against the terrorists that plotted 9/11, we were not allowed to do any acts that may harm said person... Even if it would lead up to any piece of information.
And since waterboarding is considered a form of torture, regardless of what anybody says, it is a clear violation in the end.
hahahaha.... In all honesty... Ure fucked Up... if U call someone satanic. Obama is just another guy, who has a family, a dog, and is american. If you would become the president, giess what, people would talk trash about U, just like U do now, people would call U a retard, imbecile, asshole... because U are responcible for their lifes.
If Ventura is going to be the next president, I think he's going to be shot, cause he knows how it all works and who to question.
waterboarding has already been conclusively, 100% determined to meet the legal definition of torture. Yes, it's torture. It's gotta stop, and never ever be used again.
Bullshit/ understand the culture then make the narrow minded comments/ US is the only benevolent superpower in history/ waterboarding does not kill you just scares the shit out of you. to compare this with cambodia and Pol Pot is deceptive . I was in Cambodia they tortured to genocide not for information to keep the rest of the country safe
The "slippery slope" argument is used be folks that don't debate the facts. " Marriage between gays!! Why not let them marry their siblings? Their dogs? Sheep? Gerbels? Where will it end? Waterboarding works and it has saved lives. Personally I'd rather be waterboarded than have my fingers chopped off. At least a waterboard survivor can still carry home a six pack from the convenience store!
Go google waterboarding - what the USA is doing to 'detainees'.
They say that this is how they located OBL - well, of course they would... waterboarding is inhuman and terrifying. Nothing can justify these levels of terror upon a fellow human being. Peace.
It doesn't matter if torture works, torture should just not happen. True. But I hated when you started saying that this is America and it's immoral for THIS country to allow torture. I hate that American attitude. Torture is just wrong.
Although water boarding IS TORTURE we aren't going as far as other countries who would chop of fingers, light others on fire or pushing people off of a building... The way I see it, if you have to torture 1 or 2 people to stop get some information that could stop a terrorist attack and save thousands of American lives, I think its worth it... and if you plan on "kindly asking" these terrorists for information... good luck with that...
Why don't they teach logic in high school? What this guy presents us with sounds correct, but most logical fallacies do. His argument is a textbook example of the "slippery slope" logical fallacy. That's a shame because there are plenty of solid arguments against waterboarding.
@122smm1 Sura 2l 190-93: slay them. , Sura 5; 33; Sura 8; 12-17: Now compare that with Exdus 22:2, Deut 20, and so on. No, I belive that the quran is fecal matter.
Germany systematically uses torture and murder to silence any opposition. Some of the murders known to the public: Uwe Barschel, Jürgen Möllemann, Heiner Gehring, Martina Pflock, Tron, Karl Koch, Bernd Seiffert, Kirsten Heisig, Fritz Bauer.
My brother Markus Bott had been tortured during 5.5 years by the German BND. He was assassinated on 11.7.09 because of our homepage.
German snitchers are following me on youtube and immediately flag my postings.
If your worried about if their innocent how about make them talk with drugs Hyoscine, Sodium Pentothal, Pscyological trickery like Fear of what we might do to them, Alcohol get them drunk etc, then when they spill the beans we kill them, another good thing since overly sensitive & stupid liberal Americans get upset lets send teams thru out the world looking for terrorists & when we find them kill them on the spot then get rid of the bodies & don't allow Americans & the News to hear about it.
wewereneverthere 3 days ago
If the world doesn't want us to torture & kill them it's so simple all they have to do is DON"T FUCK WITH US. I don't feel sorry for any ASSHOLE who does. understand one thing about people, THEY ARE STUPID if they think they can get away with shit they will try, the so called wild west was not so wild they hanged criminals the CITIZENS DID NOT TOLERATE CRIME, now we baby criminals guess what? CHAOS, ANARCHY, CRIME, TERRORISM, PERVERSION, LIBERALISM, GOVERNMENT CORRUPTION & OPPRESSION Like it?
wewereneverthere 3 days ago
Jin ko musalmanoo ke hadian dekh kr hushi hote hai
Mibrahim1226 1 week ago
I say pull out their finger nails and burn their eyeballs with a blow torch and after they spill their guts drop them in shark infested waters.
eastarieI 2 weeks ago
the people in America are good
the government is all messed up
TheKimrob 1 month ago
Marg Bar Amerika!
NWONoWorldOrderNWO 1 month ago
Death to the invaders barefoot naked
qewrtuyiful 1 month ago
0:10 john f kenedy i like his face
emirashour001 1 month ago
Torture is bad but I'm not against it. If I had the power I would only torture people like Anders Behring Breivik. Live on TV torture to death. This will show people what will happen if they don't use their brains... But I'm against what USA is doing. You can't know 100 percent if they are terrorists. I bet a lot not guilty people get tortured to...What we do know about Anders Behring Breivik.
WikiWeirdNews 1 month ago
@WikiWeirdNews:
Eventhough he of course is a murderer and an asshole it ould be wrong to do that. EVERY HUMAN, even murderers have Natural Rights: The right to live and the right of unharmed dignity of that live.
jerome96114 1 month ago
@jerome96114 Trust me, society would be better. Because of such example of what will happen if you do this,... Did you ever saw jails in Norway? It's damn vacation there... (see video) You are believer aren't you (God) ? let's put it this way... Who don't give a shit about Natural Rights should not have any...I'm just saying that he must feel the pain of those 77 victims and their parents. Live on TV execution. Murderers will think twice then before doing crap. /watch?v=VyiodSMNv4E
WikiWeirdNews 1 month ago
Muslims r good people wt u know about islam fuck u
eastarieI
Roony750 1 month ago
obama is just as bad... wait no I lie, He is much worse. he can just say it suave... where bush didnt have the brains so teh secret hand can get away with more. Groomed by CIA since he was 20 to do what he is doing now. Fuck the NWO
11kungfu11 1 month ago 2
جرارين ياعنقليز
MrMaf555 1 month ago
Fucking Muslims pull their fucking teeth out.
eastarieI 1 month ago
there are no terrorists... just a few isolated retaliation against a very long oppression of people in middle east that began after world war two when USA economy began to grow exponentially and it needed oil to support this growth.
pile713 2 months ago
i say the terriost if they are 100 percent terriost they should tourture them do whatever to the terriosts
thumbsup95 2 months ago
@thumbsup95 oh dear...how would they know they're 100%? Do you know how many people get out of Guantanamo after getting tortured? Plenty, proves something don't you think?
1Mperios 1 month ago
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اشهد ان لا اله الا الله حسبناالله سيأتيناا الله من فضله انا الى ربنا لراغبون
soooma412 2 months ago
If Obama was against TORTURE...
... He'd prosecute the criminals.
maxx1000 2 months ago
Torture....no, sensory deprivation....sure why not. Do you honestly think one of these mother fuckers desercves a nice couch and airconditioned condo while they await their fate?....... fuck them and what they did to our friends south of us.....screw them all
klink1983 2 months ago
@klink1983 Not all of them are terriost...
TStrince 2 months ago
Legitimate slippery slope argument
Interesting video
prophetclique 3 months ago
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nyvia143 3 months ago
My brother (a military specialist) got involved with torture of rendered terrorist suspects back in the mid-2000s- mostly observing, but occasionally ‘crossing the line’ into participation.
He’s now rightly seeking compensation from the govt., saying he can’t look into the eyes of his wife or kids without seeing the desperate fear of a human who knows he’s going to suffer hours of hideous pain & cruelty before an anonymous death. Of course the cowardly authorities have denied his claim.
SuperTruth77 3 months ago
I really hate those who disliked this story
imfasa 3 months ago
Moral relativity is a dangerous slippery slope.
shotten99 3 months ago
THIS IS BEGINNING OF AMERICA UNFORTUNETLY, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE LIKE THAT......GREED,LOOSING MIDDLE CLASS,JEWS MONEY AND THEIR LEADERSHIP ,NO EMPATHY FOR SMALL MAN,POLICE BRUTALITY--SPENDING WAY ,WAY TO MUCH ON USELESS WEAPON ETC WILL BRING ONE BIG,STRONGEST EMPIRE TO THE END ;TIME :5 TO 25 YEARS MOST + UNPREDICTABLE THINGS IF AND WILL HAPPEN WILL ACCELERATE THAT! LIKE EARTH YOU RAPE FOR CENTURY'S, EARTHQUAKES AL THAT NO ONE CAN STOP,I AM SORRY WE ALL WILL FEEL IMPACT,WITCH IS NOT FER!ALL BEST A
dylanfloyd777 3 months ago
youtube.com/watch?v=eHDRNqtgw9E&feature=channel_video_title
It does matter if torture works, and I proved it in the above link.
tjblob 3 months ago
For the first time, I actually agree with Shepard Smith.
kristine5050 3 months ago
Let me sum it up for anyone who is going to watch this video, "gil smart(sic)" is saying that:
It is more important that one or a handful of persons, likely to be convicted of terrorism than not, be spared of pain, than to avert an attack and let innocents in public be killed.
ImperialArmour 3 months ago
you are america, you kill innocent people and torture.
KakaoDj 3 months ago
Gil dumb. The dumbest talker.
lastseries2011 4 months ago
Let's give them the same treatment they would give one of us if you don't agree with current methods! Severe torture and death is it? In fact, if you are concerned about current methods, hand them a family member, like your child, and see what wonderful people you are dealing with. They made their decisions. They are killers. They do not get the severe treatment the give to others. So ya, it doesn't matter.... Their torture isn't that severe
cssowen1 4 months ago
I quote from the movie Psycho (and Scream) "We all go a little mad sometimes." That's not necessarily to defend any form of torture "for a greater good" (or whatever other "excuse" a person may have), but if that was my child in the hands of a kidnapper/rapist, of course I'm going to wish the worst on the guy because what he just did is among the most unforgivable things a person can do in the eyes of ANY society. I could go further down the list with murder, terrorism, etc...you get the idea!
JayLaher 4 months ago
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smuk1900 4 months ago
u-talk-2-much-with-u'r-money-talk
smarty hypo
only consumers' rights in your country
this is exactly what you preach
exactly what you practice
"the arms trade or the drugs trade?
that's the question"
this is your National Hamlet.
GreatLoverFriendTM 4 months ago
Lets face it folks, it they had your little girl or boy you wouldn't care if they cut off his balls! Long as he told you where they were. Am I wrong?
buddybleau 5 months ago
Close Guantanamo NOW
stop torture
nazis tortured people too!
911insidejob81 5 months ago
We are torturing people in our own prisons. Spraying them with pepper spray, using extreme unnecessary force, tazing, sensory depravation and denying them medical treatment. My brother just lost his 4 bottom teeth because of a treatable infection and that he was not allowed to see a doctor for after many requests. 3/4 of the people in prison with him are non violent criminals. Traffic violations and nonpayment of child support. We are doing this to our own people.
pieladypeace 5 months ago 3
Comment removed
curingaging00 5 months ago
So the lives of a few people outway the lives of thousands of innocent men, women and children? Sorry I simply cant buy that. When "Torture" is performed by professionals with psychology degrees who can analysie someones mental state and attack them that way rather than mindless beatings and interogations has been proven to be effective. And the people being interogated USUALLY have connections with terrorists which brings them to the attention of the government. I wont loose sleep over it.
MrMapex2010 5 months ago
JAPANESE SAMURAI SPRITS NEVER DIE.
TakeruRock 5 months ago
press 6 over and over again to hear oink oink
Codz97 5 months ago
I am sorry but this guy like most Liberal fools lives with his head in the clouds. America can hold the higher moral plain and always be open to another attack like 9/11. Or it can roll up its sleeves and get down in the gutter with the nut jobs and actually try to beat these guys. And the fact that torture methods used in Gitmo or any were else have stoped more attacks plus led to the death of Bin Ladin is the only justification the US needs. Your moral outrage is your weakness
legion860 6 months ago
@legion860 You're wrong buddy. If you take a look at the evidence you will realize that torture that went on at Gitmo never extracted any valuable information.
JamesIsKing30 5 months ago
@JamesIsKing30 That they released to the public at least
MrMapex2010 5 months ago
@JamesIsKing30 Bin Ladin was tracked down because they got the name of one of the messengers he was using from prisoners at Gitmo and he in turn led them to Bin Laden.
legion860 5 months ago
coool intro
0mrtn0 6 months ago
America is unfair and do not know human rights
azoozsas 6 months ago
Today it is "terrorists" being terrorized with torture.
Tomorrow, the terrorist could be the label planted on you!
That is why planned to prevent future attack - on you or your family.
CardinalSinga 7 months ago
dont over do the expession dude no one likes it but got views n e how
michaelberryakabez 7 months ago
was this guy stoned in the beging lol
Sm0k3Tr3es 7 months ago
I say we torture them, don't fuck with America and we won't have to, that simple
coco16055 7 months ago
If you cut their throats, they would die, no intelligence then bro lol
coco16055 7 months ago
We are hypocrites.
ib422000 7 months ago
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PetiteFleurNoir 7 months ago
Anybody that says torture tactics in order to obtain life saving information is wrong, has never lost a loved one in a terrorist attack. It is easy to take the high road and say we are better then this when you have never experienced a terrorist attack. Even if it only works half the time, would you do it to protect your family?
19LastCrusader45 7 months ago
@19LastCrusader45 Amen. If we are all to be equals, then we can't take high roads...we must all take a level highway.
iwantwatermellon 7 months ago
Anyone who ever went into the Marines and made it all the way though was "tortured". Just go ask a Marine what it meant to watch TV. Ofcourse, if one went and .ooked at the part of the geneva convention in 1979-not ratified by our country dealing with those who commited warfare but not in a foeroign army(i.e. a chain of command,a unit, everyone wearing the same uniforms). In the end-if you were willing to die for your country-why would we not try to do all we could to get info from the enemy?
daveme7 7 months ago
@daveme7 Yeah, you must be right - after all Hussain and Milosevich are good role models eh? Oh wait - didn't we topple them for torturing their people? Aren't we at war right now with countries because they did the same? It must be that cause it sure wasn't WMD's!
Or is tortue OK when we're using it - but nobody else is allowed? If we're gonna stand up and say 'we're civilised' and set an example - the example shldn't be torture and illegal detainment - period.
CJSpencer77 7 months ago
That is where people like you do notunderstand very much.In everything that happened in Iraq was not illegal in any wars wyhen we are fighting.In 1979 many countries ratified new laws for the Geneva convention.We did not. POW status are given to people in the military and this being defined as you are paid, given a uniform and training with a chain of command. By the way, then what about those whom were killed never brought to justice that saw those in the CIA assasinated by our enemies?
daveme7 7 months ago
The Brits did torture on Obama's granddads balls.
Treu story
baasbovenbaass 8 months ago
You're dumb man...
vegaskrause 8 months ago
What ever happened to peace and happiness? This world needs a reset button.
TheMADisRAD 8 months ago 58
@TheMADisRAD there was never peace and happiness..i heard a saying, "war was created around the same time man was."...talking about the war,between the greater good/almighty creator/whichever you believe in and the devil/the greatest evil and stuff.
AGA151994 7 months ago 11
@TheMADisRAD there is one!A naturel one .Yellowstone
Agremen 7 months ago
@TheMADisRAD nah we are fine now, what is peace and happiness?
DHazeStone 6 months ago
@TheMADisRAD Are u a contestant for America's beauty pageant?
argy29 5 months ago
@TheMADisRAD What ever happend to it? It never happend, not to be ignorant but it hasent happend :(
robbysharolaid 4 months ago
@TheMADisRAD Damn straight. If only :l
Vieranni 4 months ago
@TheMADisRAD There is one, the button to launch the nukes.
keegamii 3 days ago
Good argument! not only does it sound like you thus qualify waterboarding to be on the low end spectrum of torture, but also that torture should be used proportionally, if it deems necessary, yes why not, pull out fingernails etc. I like it.
TheHardProblem 8 months ago
Okay. If the higher ups admitted it was a war crime, atop of the Bush Administration trial...
The reputation of the CIA would be destroyed, with international trials added for operatives. And if the CIA did survive this, it would be nearly impossible to operate the way it does now.
World politics would change for the worse, with both Iran and North Korea benefiting from this. Any alliances we would have left... Not sure.
And political factions would be even more fractured (or destroyed) here.
NinjaPoeBear 8 months ago
I read the "Considering the War-Crimes Trial of the Bush Administration" by Nat Henoff (The Village Voice). I also read up on the Geneva Convention, read up on the definition of torture, listened to experts on the subject, and experienced what waterboarding is meant to simulate.
That, and I also know what would have happened if a violation was admitted, and why the President Obama chose to allow a war crime to be ignored, as well as what the ramifications would have been. Shall I say more? Yes?
NinjaPoeBear 8 months ago
... a well-documented history of what we are convinced was a grand, concerted pattern to [commit the] barbarities which have shocked the world."
So yeah... Those who say otherwise need to experience these things in the same manner that they were done. Then you'll have a defense if you do not find anything that actually did happen to be torture. Those who bring up abortions need to read up on the other factors that do happen, as well as request this be controlled in some way. And me...
NinjaPoeBear 8 months ago
He also adds "..., [or exposed to systematic torture] . . . or for arresting thousands of civilians without direct cause and holding them indefinitely, incommunicado, in concentration-camp conditions."
The article also points out the arrest warrants in Italy for 25 CIA agents. Those who also avoided war crimes. But Harry Truman said it best: "The groundwork of our case must be factually authentic and constitute...
NinjaPoeBear 8 months ago
and the ones we collaborate with. Because if he allowed it, it would have split our already fractured political system into something far worse. And the rest of the world would not trust our country.
And it leads us to Nat Hentoff's October 1, 2008 article. He stated that in Philip Gourevitch's book Standard Operating Procedure (Palgrave Macmillan), he said "Nobody was ever charged with torture, or war crimes, or any violation of the Geneva Conventions."
NinjaPoeBear 8 months ago
told anybody about those cases. Either way, if you had anybody bully you and tried to make you feel like you are drowning, you'd call it torture. No matter what anybody else says, the overall effect is nothing less than torture. Then again, you can also drown by drinking a glass of water.
As for what the Government says... In 2008 and 2009, there are numerous reports on how this is a war crime. And in the end, President Obama asked that there not be a trial for the unity of our political powers
NinjaPoeBear 8 months ago
I had three idiots telling me that this is not torture. One of them worded it from officials that know it is, and so far none of these people have either looked up the ramifications of their admittance or the feeling that this tactic follows.
Waterboarding is nothing more than somebody dunking your head for a long time, allowing you to get some air. The effects I did mention are plausible due to those who end up being unlucky... And the U.S. Government either tries avoiding it, or have never
NinjaPoeBear 8 months ago
I'm getting disputes from spats who have listened to those who claim this is either hypocritical, or ignorable.
The hypocritical complaints should shut up as they can have the "abortion" issue need to realize that this is a practice that needs to be both regulated and controlled by medical boards. That way, the option of putting the child up for adoption, etc. is available. (That, and the pro-life people ignore the child abandonment rates, and worse. So... Yeah.) And the rest...
NinjaPoeBear 8 months ago
Torture IS and WILL ALWAYS BE unhuman. It makes the goverment unhuman and from there it is no telling what they might be doing.
cs47 8 months ago
I Bet you are one of the pervs getting excited by pain, Gil smart. by the way that name doesn't fit you moron.
cs47 8 months ago
I know where the debate goes. Stop being weak and use the same methods afforded to American Soldiers. And the hell with the Geneva Convention. This idiot talks of moral standards. Moral based on what. Abortion- immoral or moral? Depends whom you ask. On and on and on. Don't give me morals when our own politicians who oppose these tactics don't have them (Weiner, Clinton,) etc. Torture the f**k out them. Maybe then they'll stop F*****g with us because they'll know whats coming.......
heveruop 8 months ago
This is a situation by situation thing. If all other methods have failed then you have to do what you have to do to get the job done. Now the person who does "get" the job done should have to be held acountable for the crime he commited. There are some things that just have to be done rather they are right or wrong.
transfusion666 8 months ago
If a cause is worth killing for, it's worth torturing for. If it isn't worth torturing for, it isn't worth killing for.
amishcyborg 8 months ago
God bless america!! KKK BITCHH!!
JoeSatriani879 8 months ago
@JoeSatriani879 ewwwww KKK ewwwww baddies
coldson07 8 months ago
Fuck america...bunch of the biggest hypocrities on the planet....drone attacks in pakistan, illegal invasion of iraq, aghanistan, libya....WTF maan...do we need nazis...when we have americans
majesticmaniac 8 months ago
@majesticmaniac Check out the books you find on the Wuala link in the description of my films. They were written in the 1930s but still give an idea how Germany "works"
For an example of torture using modern techniques check out my english film about the Anneliese Michel "exrorcism" case. For brainwashing and steering techniques used against defendants in court look at my 2 films about Ulrike Meinhof and Jan-Carl Raspe
For Germany exporting its torture techniques to other states see my last film
wwwtotalitaerde 8 months ago
Then you have the international relations. Those who already say it is torture is still willing to cooperate with this country. Now think what would happen if either/both the Justice Department and/or CIA did admit they permitted torture to be done. Added with the photos already shown, it would create an devastating ripple that would have our allies question our policies, as well as allow those who oppose us to use the facts as a way to be even more resistant. And so on, but it will be ignored.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
This means that key members of the CIA would be on trial, current operations would have to be either handed over or discontinued, and other factors would happen. It would have more permanent damage within the agency. The Bush Administration portion would create a political rift, which President Obama did not want. It would create a rift between not just the two parties, but also within both parties - Making it hard to get anything done, especially if the American people do not trust them. (more)
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
As for the Justice Department and CIA excuses, here is the fact: President Obama asked that no war crimes trials be done. The only way to avoid this is by saying "waterboarding is not torture." Both departments obliged to this because if they did admit to it, more than a mere war crime would have happened. Both the Bush Administration and CIA department would have destroyed reputations - The CIA does not need this as it also means they have to make other similar operations become public. (more)
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
Well if you go based on the definition of torture then Marine Corps boot camp is torture in several different ways. I would ask NinjaPoeBear.. what exactly are the long term physical damages you are talking about? You keep saying that it causes them, but I'd like to know what exactly it does. I'm curious as I don't know.
ReCLaIM25 9 months ago
@ReCLaIM25 The "prolonged" effects of waterboarding are based on the duration of doing it, and is not always meant to be permanent damage - It is made to be effective once the victim subjugates oneself to the effects. In this case, while being treated to "virtual drowning," one feels complete anxiety and the need to end it by creating "information." And if you ever felt forced anxiety and forced drowning, then you know this is torture.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@NinjaPoeBear so, what are the physical long term damages? You said there were, I'm just asking you to tell me. Anxiety is not considered a physical damage. IF you hadn't claimed it, I wouldn't be questioning you on it. So, what are the permanent physical damages? I'm going to say one more thing, but don't disregard that question. I bet if you've ever been beheaded you would think waterboarding was a piece of cake and not torture. Maybe its all relative?
ReCLaIM25 9 months ago
@ReCLaIM25 You ARE kidding, right?! Think about it. What are the long term effects of drowning? There's laryngospasm, which can cause cardiac arrest. There's hypoxia, which causes lack of oxygen to the brain... Allowing temporary or permanent brain damage, or even brain death, as well as damage to the kidneys and the heart. And if they used salt water and did this long enough, it could thicken the blood. Because again... It replicates the effects of drowning, as stated by experts. (=_=)
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@NinjaPoeBear The long term affects of drowning is not what we are discussing here. Laryngospasm is not a long term effect. Neither is cardiac arrest. Neither is Hypoxia.. It replicates the sensation of drowning.. not the effects of drowning. Matter of fact, in most cases you never actually get any water inside the person. Its the sensation that your body panics that causes the effect. Its not hypoxia, maybe some laryngospasm as you put it but again, I asked you for long term effects.
ReCLaIM25 8 months ago
@NinjaPoeBear What are the damages to the kidney and heart of pouring water over someone's face? You make the claim, I'll ask you to explain it. Thats how this works. Since you like to claim a lot of things that don't actually answer the questions. For instance, long term effects.. you haven't named any.
ReCLaIM25 8 months ago
@NinjaPoeBear - Torture as defined by the US Reservation of the UN Convention is inflicting prolonged mental harm. You are oversimplifying the situation & telling untruths to justify your agenda. Using the simple dictionary definition doesn't solve anything. Anyone can define torture in their own way, so we need a more specific definition for wartime situations. Also, your defintion from Google doesn't jive with waterboarding, since it doesn't inflict sever pain. GAME OVER - Try Again...
michaelantonio 9 months ago
@michaelantonio and 98DevilDog79 - How about this as a game changer? People ranging from Senator John McCain to those who have experienced it at numerous levels have stated that it is torture. Numerous people who have experienced it have given exact details in what physical and psychological effects that they have experienced while being put into the numerous forms of waterboarding. And historical experts have backed up the fact it is torture. So try this. And you will see that they are right.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
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Again, for you nay sayers...
From Wikipedia: en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Torture
From Wikipedia: en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Waterboarding
In other words... It is considered torture and no matter who says what, it is considered a war crime. 'Nuff said.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@Metallica You are confusing me & my friends with terrorists. I don't expect that you, me, or any other normal person should be subjected to waterboarding, no matter how traumatic. This type of technique is designed for very bad people who have information that can murder thousands. I was in the military, & they put us in a gas chamber, where I couldn't breathe & lost everything in my stomach within seconds. I know what it feels like to be put in a very uncomfortable situation.
michaelantonio 9 months ago
Torture is defined as PERMANENT Physical AND mental harm. It has to be both of those things & cause permanent damage, or it cannot be considered torture. Waterboarding doesn't fall into this category, so it's NOT TORTURE !!!
michaelantonio 9 months ago
@michaelantonio Dude get some of your friends (assuming you have some) and just try it...it really changes your opinion pretty fast.
metallicatilldeathhh 9 months ago
@michaelantonio Direct from Google itself:
tor·ture
noun /ˈtôrCHər/
tortures, plural The action or practice of inflicting severe pain on someone as a punishment or to force them to do or say something, or for the pleasure of the person inflicting the pain Great physical or mental suffering or anxiety - the torture I've gone through because of loving you so A cause of such suffering or anxiety - dances were absolute torture because I was so small
'Nuff said. :3
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
The maker of this video should realize the slippery slope theorum applies to EVERYTHING. If we are to not make exceptions for the fear that doing so will lead to much worse things for example... We allow saline abortions - going by your logic that would lead to drownding born babies, why stop there, why not drownd 40 year olds or take it down a notch and waterboard terrorists. Not a well thought out arguement.
98DevilDog79 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 I disagree with your lack of logic, I mean comment. The use of torture is a clear violation of the Geneva Convention, and was proven to do nothing but torture these people. The intelligence given were nothing but lies, and it was proven to be such. And "saline abortions"? What does that have to do with open violations that constitute as war crimes? What does something that should be taken to the medical boards compare to acts that made the U.S. become nothing more than a hypocrite?
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@NinjaPoeBear The Justice Department ruled that waterboarding is not torture. "The intelligence given were nothing but lies" - logic would be enough for you to see this statment as ridiculous, however proof was acknowledged by Obama appointee CIA director Panetta - waterboarding Khalid gave us the list of couriers who lead us to Osama -it's not debatable. My point is we drownd babies till theyre dead, simulated drownding of mass murdering terrorists isn't worse, but then again I'm not a liberal
98DevilDog79 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 You want to ignore my point? Really? The Geneva Convention clearly states that it is a form of torture. Senator John McCain protested against it, clearly noting it as torture. And if it was not for the intervention of President Obama, the Bush Administration (and those tied to this) would have been put on trial for war crimes. This, versus the fact I stated that your claim is something the medical board needs to review. Then again, I actually read up on my facts. Link below.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 Yet, Senator John McCain said: "I know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners sometimes produces good intelligence but often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear — true or false — if he believes it will relieve his suffering. Often, information provided to stop the torture is deliberately misleading."
And also, according to experts, as well as Senator McCain, waterboarding is a form of torture.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 And on last thing... Former Vice-President Dick Cheney openly stated in an interview, which was published by a major magazine, that he does support the use of torture (when the requirements are met). This itself has him acknowledge that waterboarding IS torture, regardless of what you claim. And it also means that it is a violation of the Geneva Convention's third article.
Then again, I don't use the "I'm not a liberal/conservative" excuse when ignoring these facts like you did.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@NinjaPoeBear What you, me, the words of Dick Cheney's in my opinion you distort doesnt change the fact the Justice Department says it's not torture - they are the authority. These supposed facts are irrelevent, snoopy has as much clout on the subject of torture as Dick Cheney.
98DevilDog79 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 Really? Distort? Wow. You have no grasp on reality. I mean seeing how the quote comes from a major magazine. That, and you also ignore every other expert across the globe that says it is torture.
And your defense? If your "expert" acknowledged the fact that it was torture, you know what would happen? You guess it - The entire Bush Administration and those tied to it would go to trial for allowing/performing war crimes.
Sad. But hey... Just continue being ignorant to the truth. ;3
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 Senator John McCain (May 21, 2009): “When you have a majority of Americans, seventy-something percent, saying we shouldn’t torture, then I’m not sure it helps for the Vice President to go out and continue to espouse that position,” he said. “But look, he’s free to talk. He’s a former Vice President of the United States. I just don’t see where it helps.” (more)
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 And then he got acerbic: Cheney, he says, “believes that waterboarding doesn’t fall under the Geneva Conventions and that it’s not a form of torture. But you know, it goes back to the Spanish Inquisition.”
But hey... Again... You listen to the "expert" and I'll listen to every person who has either performed it, experienced it, or witnessed it. That, and the fact the results fall under the actual definition of "torture" just says you, yourself, are the one being disillusioned. ;3
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@NinjaPoeBear "You listen to the "expert" and I'll listen ... performed it, experienced it, or witnessed it." - there are over 450 special forces in duty today who have experienced it. We don't torture our own military so it doesnt sound like you are listening to anyone. "That, and the fact the results fall under the actual definition of "torture"" - except they don't. Waterboarding has no long term effects when done correctly. Again I have the Justice Department on my side, you have ziltch.
98DevilDog79 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 Once again: "Waterboarding is a form of torture in which water is poured over the face of an immobilized captive, causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning." - Wikipedia
Look it up. It does permanent damage when done effectively. Your "450 experts" had to adapt to it in case they are captured. The rest you ignored know that it is torture. The Geneva Convention defines it as torture. And your only defense is based on the fact that a War Crime trial was avoided.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
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98DevilDog79 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 Here is thing - Waterboarding has caused permanent damage. The Elite Forces go through a form of training that allows them to adapt, not be immune, to what it does.
And the U.S. Justice Department? Do you know what would have happened if they did acknowledge it as torture? The entire Bush Administration and portions of the CIA would be put on trial for numerous war crime violations. This would have created a major gap in political relations and segregate political parties. And...
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 Another factor is your claims are bullshit. You have experts, historians, and those who experienced and know its extent to what it does. You are basing your claims on a group that is avoiding the ramifications tied to admitting that it is torture. A group that are trained to adapt to torture-based tactics if they are caught. And you act like something you know nothing about, nor have experienced, makes you an expert. I'll listen to the rest and even ask about these claims of yours.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NinjaPoeBear Waterboarding does not cause permanent damage, we do not handicap our elite fighting forces which all get waterboarded. I understand your position, the US Justice Dept and I don't agree with you and every graduate of SERE training is a testament to the fact it's not torture and you are wrong. Tough shit.
98DevilDog79 9 months ago
@98DevilDog79 Special Forces: "Special forces, or Special Operations forces are terms used to describe elite military tactical teams trained to perform high-risk dangerous missions that conventional units cannot perform. Special Forces soldiers need to be physically and mentally robust and have the confidence, courage, and skill to operate individually or in small teams, often in isolation and in a hostile environment."
In other words... They have to be used to torture tactics, etc. 'Nuff said.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
@NinjaPoeBear "In other words... They have to be used to torture tactics, etc. 'Nuff said" that's an oxymoron. Permanent damage - you don't get used to having your arm chopped off - it's doesn't grow back no matter how hard you train at getting it cut off - that's the definition of PERMANENT and the requirment for torture.
98DevilDog79 9 months ago
The problem is, the things America does to our enemies is NOT torture. Read the Geneva Convention before making your foolish assertions....
michaelantonio 9 months ago
@michaelantonio The problem is that the THIRD ARTICLE of the Geneva Convention states that no harm shall go to any detainees during a time of war. Meaning that since we were at war against the terrorists that plotted 9/11, we were not allowed to do any acts that may harm said person... Even if it would lead up to any piece of information.
And since waterboarding is considered a form of torture, regardless of what anybody says, it is a clear violation in the end.
NinjaPoeBear 9 months ago
Torture the hell out of them if it stops future attacks. I'll volunteer to turn the thumb screws.
seriouslybad6767 9 months ago
wow this video is out of date. Obama uses torture just like Bush, both are godless satanic imbeciles.
Madkre8tor 9 months ago
@Madkre8tor
hahahaha.... In all honesty... Ure fucked Up... if U call someone satanic. Obama is just another guy, who has a family, a dog, and is american. If you would become the president, giess what, people would talk trash about U, just like U do now, people would call U a retard, imbecile, asshole... because U are responcible for their lifes.
If Ventura is going to be the next president, I think he's going to be shot, cause he knows how it all works and who to question.
AshPeace 9 months ago
@AshPeace ha ha ha ASSpiece - keep on being decieved as your "normal" leader sucks satan's cock.
Madkre8tor 9 months ago
Would Jesus use Torture???? NO Would Bhudha use Torture? No.
And if you want to find the real terrorist. Follow the Money and Power Trail. I guarentee he won't be found in Afganistan.
poisedonis 9 months ago
Get a life man. Isn't it sad that a 16 year old boy has to tell a 40 year old man to get a life?...
capaldiontheway 9 months ago
some people just need it i'm all for it! If some one rapes a little girl he should be "touchered" and killed
rototil 9 months ago
KILL BUSH!
memphisgrownman 9 months ago
Whatever it takes, even if feeding to pigs! Bring it on.
Mzungu64 9 months ago
waterboarding has already been conclusively, 100% determined to meet the legal definition of torture. Yes, it's torture. It's gotta stop, and never ever be used again.
PrisonerNumber9653 9 months ago
No one should be tortured its just sick .... Dirthy scum bags.
Tammy18x3 9 months ago
because waterboarding is not torture.
cassidy99ful 9 months ago
Bullshit/ understand the culture then make the narrow minded comments/ US is the only benevolent superpower in history/ waterboarding does not kill you just scares the shit out of you. to compare this with cambodia and Pol Pot is deceptive . I was in Cambodia they tortured to genocide not for information to keep the rest of the country safe
Familyps3 10 months ago
The "slippery slope" argument is used be folks that don't debate the facts. " Marriage between gays!! Why not let them marry their siblings? Their dogs? Sheep? Gerbels? Where will it end? Waterboarding works and it has saved lives. Personally I'd rather be waterboarded than have my fingers chopped off. At least a waterboard survivor can still carry home a six pack from the convenience store!
conorejotas 10 months ago
@conorejotas ...yup
Familyps3 10 months ago
Go google waterboarding - what the USA is doing to 'detainees'.
They say that this is how they located OBL - well, of course they would... waterboarding is inhuman and terrifying. Nothing can justify these levels of terror upon a fellow human being. Peace.
tansyfairy77 10 months ago
@tansyfairy77 Pussy!
dentgregg 9 months ago
i say its suck after 2 seconds watch
KingZPirate 10 months ago
It doesn't matter if torture works, torture should just not happen. True. But I hated when you started saying that this is America and it's immoral for THIS country to allow torture. I hate that American attitude. Torture is just wrong.
latronqui 10 months ago
pro-torture....if they dont talk then they die
vdubjay98 10 months ago
GAY !
ChapelHillElectric 10 months ago
If you kill a killer your just a killer.
MarkStringer96 10 months ago
WWWOWWW THIS SUCKS
Dontfret24 10 months ago 31
I turned this off after 7 seconds. A 40 year old saying Teh Internetz? Fucking please.
theDrache 10 months ago 51
@theDrache hahahaha
FLATblacktical 9 months ago
@theDrache I found the introduction annoying too but I watched the rest of the video and it did improve and made a valid point.
marcluc1988 8 months ago
@theDrache I doesnt matter if they work or not. Where are your pictures of the dead from 9/11.
democratichypocrit 8 months ago
@democratichypocrit Thats not even related to what I said.
theDrache 7 months ago
Tourture Works. Sorry pacifist it just works.
dentgregg 10 months ago 2
@dentgregg hypocrite
6hundred3score6 9 months ago
Although water boarding IS TORTURE we aren't going as far as other countries who would chop of fingers, light others on fire or pushing people off of a building... The way I see it, if you have to torture 1 or 2 people to stop get some information that could stop a terrorist attack and save thousands of American lives, I think its worth it... and if you plan on "kindly asking" these terrorists for information... good luck with that...
dastuke 10 months ago
Why don't they teach logic in high school? What this guy presents us with sounds correct, but most logical fallacies do. His argument is a textbook example of the "slippery slope" logical fallacy. That's a shame because there are plenty of solid arguments against waterboarding.
b3auli3u 10 months ago
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122smm1 10 months ago
@122smm1 I have a Quran, and I read it. I also have Bibles and read them. I know what they both say.
Hughganaught 10 months ago
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122smm1 10 months ago
@122smm1 How am I supposed to take the "kill the infidel" passages in context?
Hughganaught 10 months ago
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122smm1 10 months ago
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122smm1 10 months ago
@122smm1 Sura 2l 190-93: slay them. , Sura 5; 33; Sura 8; 12-17: Now compare that with Exdus 22:2, Deut 20, and so on. No, I belive that the quran is fecal matter.
Hughganaught 10 months ago
Germany systematically uses torture and murder to silence any opposition. Some of the murders known to the public: Uwe Barschel, Jürgen Möllemann, Heiner Gehring, Martina Pflock, Tron, Karl Koch, Bernd Seiffert, Kirsten Heisig, Fritz Bauer.
My brother Markus Bott had been tortured during 5.5 years by the German BND. He was assassinated on 11.7.09 because of our homepage.
German snitchers are following me on youtube and immediately flag my postings.
wwwtotalitaerde