EEVblog #127 - PCB Design For Manufacture Tutorial - Part 1

[UntitledTitle]

Fantastic video, I really like your presentation style. I thought I knew the basics but there are loads of cool bits and details in your videos that just make everything make much more sense. I see you're using Altium -- have you use any other packages lately? It's just so buggy at times .. (though it does have the bells and whistles...)

[BigDaddySeany]

As a wannabe engineer, or engineer tech in any case, these vids are great, even if I don't understand everything.

[averagemale2000]

great video. really enjoy your VBlogs. +1

[granceroblast]

Great video, really good presentation!

[GitarStu]

Hahaha. Your t-shirt is AWESOME!!! So very clever :)

(You sound a bit like Shirley Strachan)

[memadmax69]

I want that tshirt... my wife would love it ^.^

[CollPowers]

Is he Davey Havok's father? From AFI

[Listn2CKY]

SUBSCRIBED.

Fantastic video and Love the t-shirt.

Keep it up.

[mccunecp]

great video lots of great infor thanks for sharing.

[Raessentia]

Great video! Thank you!

[ArtistEngineer]

Great work. This sort of knowledge is invaluable and you can normally only learn it by doing it amongst some good electrical engineer mentors.

A great way to create your BOM spreadsheet is to use the information that you've already provided in your CAD software e.g. Altium.

If you use database libraries you can link the datasheet, manufacturer and supplier information to the part in the schematic. So when it comes time to make the BOM, all the information comes straight from the schematic!

[ArtistEngineer]

@ArtistEngineer e.g. you have an individual part for a "10K resistor 1% 0805" "1K resistor 1% 0805". So your BOM is EXACT and automatic. It takes a bit of setting up in the library but once you've got it done then you save LOADS of time doing your part ordering.

Anyway, this is a simplified example and you probably already do this.

[lolypopboy777]

do any one know where i can find a cheap and a good pcb manufacturer? :)

[kurtnelle]

This was so informative, I didn't even relize that it was an hour long. It only really dawned on me once relized how much information was pouring into my head ;)

[mmahdyable]

thanks for this effort and this information

eng . mohamed mahdy - egypt

[TheLightningStalker]

Thanks for this great informative video.

[AJshow907]

bad ass accent my friend!

[vinayvs1991]

ur Tee caption rockzz!! i love it!!

[MrSupersaad130]

i dont bielve hime cus his shirt says he gives only negative feed back

[beou1980]

you are a little GOD

[gonzik]

Awesome. Totally Awesome. As an engineering student, it's information like this that we never get in the classroom that I crave so much! Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with us.

[goliady]

where make the PCB min 21:20?

[Nazanden]

I FUCKING LOVE YOU

[xDR1TeK]

This man is under-appreciated.

[JaffaMicroBrain]

OMG you presentation style is annoying. Brilliant - but annoying. Your video is a goldmine of information and thanks very much for sharing. I find that some assemblers can provide some of your components - say resistors - and charge you for usage only. It saves having to pay for and stock reels of components.

PS: I love the T-shirt.

[prime106]

Great videos! what is the PCB software towards the end?

[EEVblog]

@prime106 Altium Designer

[Psychlist1972]

Thsoe are the coolest looking boards. What are they for? Telecom? Satellite? Medical?

[EEVblog]

@Psychlist1972 Some are underwater sonar stuff, some military, some custom test gear, a whole mix.

[gfxindy]

Nice lab !

[TheGandeloft]

The 'WEED SHAPED ONES'

[TheGandeloft]

I don't know what to be concentrating on more.. The stuff you talk about, or the way you talk O.O

XDXDXD

[fingerboy18]

I'm going to click all the ads so you can get the best baby food :)

[fingerboy18]

I think I've liked and favorited this video like 3 times. I always come back to it!

[techgood]

Wow, Dave your Videos are amazing, Thanks and lots of it

[dacke93]

Sorry i only give a negative feedback

[fingerboy18]

The damn transformer takes up a lot of real-estate, but I absolutely hate wallwarts. In my experience, SMD power transformers aren't easy to find. IEC sockets would be nice as an SMD part as well. Then the fuse could be placed right under a vias.

[NNOTM]

I love that accent...

And the great video!

[ataripiku]

This is excellent, thank you for these videos!

[charleshoskinson]

EEV I have a few royalty questions. I'm designing a PCB for the PCI express bus that will likely also use an AMD CPU on the AM3 socket. Do you know the best way of finding out a general idea of finding out if I have to pay royalties so I can make some design decisions accordingly?

[fingerboy18]

Absolutely phenomenal video. Thank you Dave.

[legokidnaruto]

Hi Dave! i have 2 questions about BGA packages for you, Can I make the solder pads smaller than the balls of the BGA package? Can I leave unconnected pads on the BGA and run traces under them? Thanks in advance :)

[effee1000]

Good, sound advice, Dave. I think auto placement machines for thru-hole components have been around for quite some time, though.

[dfwz33]

hey, just wanted to let you know, i use your videos all the time and i really appreciate your tutorials

[geobruce1995]

smooth as a baby's but

[mageepaddy]

Great vid as always, quick tip for you all regarding whether to trust cheaper chinese suppliers as I have tested out 5-6 this year.

For quality prototypes from China use either PCB Cart or MyroPCB.

I get 100x160mm 4-day prototypes delivered to eu for $62USD, crazy compared to how much prototypes used to cost back in the day.

[CyberWalker2004]

At 10:06 you accidentally add the reeling fee to the extended price, but this is not the case here. The digi-reel costs 77.76 USD (as you can see at the little matrix above for the '100 part' line) and it automatically adds the 7 USD at the Extended Price form below. So, just saying, it is not a big deal, but the total price is actually 84.76 USD (not 84.76 USD + 7 more!). :-)

PS : EXCELLENT TUTORIAL!!! Thank you very very much!!!

[CyberWalker2004]

At 10:06 you accidentally add the reeling fee to the extended price, but this is not the case here. The digi-reel costs 77.76 USD (as you can see at the little matrix above for the '100 part' line) and it automatically adds the 7 USD at the Extended Price form below. So, just saying, it is not a big deal, but the total price is actually 84.76 USD (not 84.76 USD + 7 more!). :-)

[HermanniSan]

Wow, this video was such an eye opener. I'm no EE pro, but like to "amaterize" with scrap part designs. This probably explains why those manufactured boards have such reduced unique part count.

(Sydney is beautiful city. I was there last year!)

[CDMCSD2]

Very good clip dave, thanks a lot... Me I was always a prototype guy, used to leave the rest to the manufacturer, but now it's clearer for me how things go behind their closed doors... :)

[karandex]

please do designing pcb and routing software

[jaspers22]

This is great!

[ptacnik1988]

What Cad software are you using it looks so neat !! i want it !!

[musicndogs]

Thank you so much! Please continue making videos teaching us what schools fail to teach. You would make a great professor!

Also if you could, would you please design a PCB board with a design software telling us about layout rules and such? Thanks!

[javedkhan0258]

can i have your t shirt :P

[EEVblog]

@javedkhan0258 You can buy my shirts from my Merch store.

[rainbowsalads]

I'm sure your very busy. but if you ever found time to video an even more in depth view on the whole process of a circuit > to board, start to finish. I would buy it ,download or dvd. : ) i bet thousands more people would too. even the schools around the world would be up for it.

[chillintau1889]

Great video! Love your blog. I do have a problem with the four fiducials you are using. Three properly placed fiducials will make it impossible to flip over a panel or board. A pick and place machine should give an error if it can not find the third fiducial. On the panels you show, four fiducials could make it possible for a machine to place components on the wrong side.

[TheOneToxic]

Love the shirt ;)

Only i give negative feedback :P

[ADimitris]

Which program is he using?

[EEVblog]

@ADimitris Altium Designer.

[ADimitris]

@EEVblog Thanks a lot, your video is really helpfull.

[CurtisStephenson]

Dave, can you recommend a pick and place company in Sydney?

[ietsutashu]

Great video! Thanks so much! Learned a lot!

[Intosia]

Great vid, but im still looking for a vid about how to design/stick to/interpret boardhouse limitations like drill sizes etc. Starting to make my first larger pcb. (as in not toner transfer method, lol)

[fagnereng]

Hey Dave. Let me ask you: wich camera do you use to make your videos? Do you use the camera mic to record the audio?

Thank you for your attention.

[EEVblog]

@fagnereng Sanyo Xacti HD-1010 with Rode Videomic.

[ARealMouthful111]

Are you Jesus? Because your video has been enrapturing. :O

[thomasey2]

this was the most terrific of all I have seen.

Thank you so much

[axel1973w]

This was A HELL of a Crash Course in PCB manufacturing!! VERY INTERESTING!!! THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH for the great work (and surly it is a shitload of work to make this vid!) !! Dont know what else to say but... THANKS! THANKS THANKS!!

[AmxCsifier]

great !

[legokidnaruto]

what board house do you use to make your prototype boards??

[EEVblog]

@legokidnaruto PCBcart

[legokidnaruto]

@EEVblog Thanks! XD

[DanFrederiksen]

@EEVblog can pcbcart do pick and place as well?

[EEVblog]

@DanFrederiksen Afraid not. They are just a bare board PCB manufacturer.

[DanFrederiksen]

@EEVblog ok thanks. do you know of one that is cost effective for only a few prototype boards if properly prepared with all the reels delivered to them?

either with or without PCB fab.

say a 100 board run. or 1000. not to be demanding but maybe you can make a supplement vlog to this excellent video where you talk specifics about ordering. who's around, what they cost, what volume each is best at, strengths and weaknesses. do they need panelized or can they handle individual boards.

[DanFrederiksen]

@EEVblog btw isn't this board just sex on a stick! : )

esi-audiotechnik. com/pictures/julia_large.jpg

[PatMan0183]

I LOVE that T-shirt you are wearing. Can you let me know where to get one?

[EEVblog]

@PatMan0183 You can buy it on my blog merchandise page.

[BarriosGroupie]

This is one of the best blogs you have ever done - so educational

[Manekinen]

Hi, big thanks for this shit, its very helpful! Im always wondering how to start some mass production of pcb's, and bang! Perfect guide from a to z :)

[thewindowproject]

This is probably in the top 10 videos I've watched here on youtube.

[googacct]

Great video. I generally make a own boards, but some great stuff to keep in mind in case one of my designs actually makes it to mass production.

[Masterkan8]

lower labor = less jobs for people, fire more people i guess so they can be in poverty

[thewindowproject]

@Masterkan8 I've done stuffing boards with components, I can tell you that it's such a boring job, I'd hate to have to do it full-time. Don't believe me? Buy a couple of kilograms of M&M's, arrange them by colour. Then mix them up and start over again. For 8 hours.

[EEVblog]

@thewindowproject LOL, I think that would be more rewarding!

[ElectronicsAustralia]

Totally enjoyed this one Dave. Really spelt out the process very well. Cheers!

[zaprodk]

Excellent video! - Keep up the good work!

[BarriosGroupie]

Altium Designer looks really professional, and designed by an Australian company.

I'd be interested in how it compares to more established packages such as PADs or Cadstar.

[LusoRobotica]

Excellent video! Could you share with us your preferred PCB manufactures not only for prototyping but for larger productions!? Thanks.

[droggwheel]

Allot of good advice was given which applies only to very large quantities. One will typically ramp-up from the prototyping stage to small-quantities first; Say 25 to 50 units. To address this market, assembly houses are offering services which loosen allot of the rules mentioned; For instance, they may not require you to panelize unless your board is very small; Say under 1" square, They may also be flexible about parts being on cut tape or loose.

KUDOS DAVE JONES !

[BrockTechnologies]

i saw a bad board copper/gold plated square. can you elaborate on that. i missed it in the video.

thank you. Keith

[dancraggs]

Good insights here, an interesting watch. Thanks!

[challengerexcelsior]

keep it on with this nice job.

[windwofswold]

Hi, which software do you use in the video to design pcb?

[EEVblog]

@windwofswold As I mentioned, Altium Designer

[StephenLeahey]

@EEVblog Its good. I've used for a long time. Has some bugs but its still waaay better than the mentor stuff, and leaves kicad and eagle dead in the water.

[Verm1n]

Nice one Dave. Design for repair could also make a good topic.

[valordk]

BTW, what are those boards with the BGA and SATA connectors? Pls talk abit more about the products you designed :)

[valordk]

Best episode indeed! Thanks a lot Dave!

[artifactingreality]

i want to snap out those boards so much.

[MrPetrH]

Great job. The best episode ever! *Thumbs up*

[0000mastermind]

hey dave......can you do a video making something on a pcb board??? im new to electronics and would love to make something on a pcb board myself...

[hitachi088]

where did you get the OUTOFTIME licence plate ?

is this a fake of a real one ?

[EEVblog]

@hitachi088 It's an official replica of the original plate used in the movie. Right down to the actual period stickers. You can get them on ebay.

[DMStern]

Nice video!

If I can make a request, something I've always wondered about is how to design a board so that it can be tested during manufacturing - what should be tested, how and where to place the test points etc.

[TheLaidukas]

Dave, at 6:39 you say "... there is a foto of tray…" but there is no picture :) It’s not that I can’t look for the picture in web, I’m saying this only to make video perfect as possible.

In fact I love you for videos like this one. If you would release a DVD with such type of video tutorials/tips I would buy one : )

Please release more videos where you talk about things that you won’t find or hardly find in books.

[wateraarde]

Wonderful overview. Very educational. Love to watch your blogs Dave. One up!

[scancool]

this video so good, I don't think anyone would ever give a thumps down

[DanFrederiksen]

maybe your best video yet?

I've never done a board but I think some fabs discourage panelizing, maybe that's just amateur stuff.

does pcbcart also do pick and place? or who's a good reliable cheap pick and placer?

[MegaHustler]

Good one Dave. Lots of interesting info.

[hipnocesar]

LOL 39:30 that's smooth as a baby's butt, in Venezuela we say something like "Smooth as a teenager's butt" -> "Suavecito como nalga de quinceañera"

[chapman001k]

An amazingly useful guide! Thank you soo much! I am intrigued as to where you got all those boards from? Are they all yours? Also what software are you using to create your pcb?

Thanks for all these greats vids!

[TheZotant]

@chapman001k It's Altium Designer, someone said in comment below.

[Films4You]

Excellent, more of the same please

[peewack]

Great as always! BTW how did you call the reference points? I just called "references" or "pinholes" back in the day when I worked with AOI

[EEVblog]

@peewack They are fiducials.

[hitachi088]

@EEVblog

are you selling some sort of project board like the one @ 00:35 ?

or you are just making them for company ...

[SciStarborne]

Exceptionally useful Dave, thankyou!

[raccoonnyc]

Very interesting - a lot of really good advice.

[Dibblah1900]

Great guide! Another thing that can save cost on the raw board is minimizing drill changes, especially for smaller boards.

[Fake00100]

"quick overview" =)

Fantastic video! Thank you Dave!

[krbosak]

You are better than a university of technology.

[shiftplusone80]

Hey Dave, I just sent you a private message via youtube which might be important.

Thanks for the great video.

[shiftplusone80]

I think you forgot to put in that picture of a tray around 6:39.

[thewii552]

1:30 : Wonky Dave!

[EEVblog]

@thewii552 It's those pesky aliens I tell ya!

[covertads]

Amazing stuff :)

[Gameboygenius]

What's the boacd at 33:40, with a big "star" or whatever you want to call it? It also has a SIM card (?) socket and ESD warning symbols. Is it a PCB antenna?

[CurtisStephenson]

Awesome blog Dave! I'm preparing for my first surface mount commercial PCB design and this info could not have come at a better time. Thanks :)

[HobieTyourtube]

Dearest Dave-how about a "wristwatch "machine that has "thousands "of functions?

Hahahah----------you will need a telescope to see the "buttons? "--USER FRIENDLY?

I "remind "you------------we haven't a Station on our Moon-yet?

Rationalization?---------like a bee in a bottle?

I love that you use the term-"Them!!-and We "

Mythical creatures that--------live on-Profits?

My "old "AVO meter is -MORE accurate than those "Cheap "Digital Multimeters from-----------Australia!!-hah­ah

Stevo

[tabarin]

Great! I thought this video was gold, I don't know where else anyone would go to find out this much useful information about the DFM process. cheers

[yakblocker]

I've noticed Contract Manufacturers (assemblers) and PCB fabs asking for the ODB++ data in addition to / instead of gerber files lately. I guess it provides them (esp the assemblers) with a lot more information about the design than the gerber files do. 

[ttk1opc]

What is the software you use?

[philbx1]

Wow! In geek terms that is way out there!

Amazing how different things are when PCB design goes into the 'big boys' sandpit.

Thanks again very much Dave for taking the time to do this, and the great insight into this very special area of design.

[TheLaidukas]

Dave, great video. Many thanks from me. I am young electronics hardware engineer and always looking for techniques and principles how to design a proper PCB. Recently I discovered your PCB design tutorial, also great job. I wish you best luck.

[heroineworshipper]

Worth watching again if we ever come across $1,000,000. You're not going to make money without spending a shitload of money initially. $100,000 in a new product usually doesn't do much better than a savings account. The guys who make serious money have to invest $1,000,000 of someone else's money.

[EEVblog]

@heroineworshipper Rubbish. You can start out spending under 4 figures to get a product to market and still make 100% or 200% mark-ups. Use that profit to bootstrap your next production run.

[militantmindset]

@EEVblog you cant get altium designer for under 4 figures...

[EEVblog]

@militantmindset Yes, but what's your point? No need to but it, use a cheaper package or a free package. gEDA and KiCad are both free and open source.

[StephenLeahey]

@heroineworshipper , one time costs for setup is normally 1k~2k in AU, cost per placed part is about 5 cents for SMT, and 20 cents for TH, and fine pitch components have some other pricing I don't know about, plus the cost of the parts, plus the cost of the PCB, plus testing, plus you likely need a bed of nails tester to be made up,

All of which is well under 100k!!!!

The real cost is in compliance testing, depending on the product, and getting custom plastics injection tools made...

[Bushougoma]

Is just a local issue for me or did the audio desync at 1:30?

[EEVblog]

@Bushougoma It's not you. Something went wrong there.

[earendall]

Good Information Dave. Enjoyed it. I do wish that you did the boards in a open source EDA package. Altuim Desinger is not easily accessible to hobbyist. Any reccommendation on a open source EDA package?

Keep up the good work!!!

[nbsr1]

Fantastic! Probably the best tutorial so far. I like the videos where you're showing the stuff that is at the core of your expertise.

[enginerdy]

Dave, you're going on about stuff that I use every day, yet no one ever mentioned in college. Nice work! This is the kind of stuff that nobody puts in a book.

[marios2liquid]

Great guide Dave!! I did some pcbs at pcbcart last year and it seems that there is always a tooling cost the first time you submit your design(if it has a drill file).

Btw which pcb fab house do you use?

Thanks for these awesome vids!!

[EEVblog]

@marios2liquid I use PCBcart also. Yes, there are always NRE tooling costs.