so all of it came from an event that just happened to pop into existence.now that makes real sense.im laughing so hard it hurts. an we get life as we know it from non life.wow what idiot can except that reasoning.
no one really knows nothing,atheists believe its all by chance an random processes,god people believe in an intelligent designer an fine tuning.i myself would take the latter cause to me it makes more sense. atheists cannt explain good an evil an who sets those standards,surely it cannot be man or society.
@djay00009 Stupid stuff? Because it makes you think? Because if you acknowledge God, then what? Then you have to change your mentality and life goals and purposes? Because then you do have an authority to answer to?
He lovingly waits for you to seek him.
If you don't believe then seek out truth. See where it takes you. =)
@Zippo271 you lcearly didn't watch it. I don't think there is one reference in the video to the bible at all. It is a purely scientific video. Better question, ever ask yourself who/what is asking in the first place. Why are these atom "awake" at all?
@Zippo271 Lmao. Yeah there are holes in the bible certainly. Cain went on to the land of Nod, but his family was the first? Moses prescribes a medical procedure that involves throwing goats blood on somebody. Clearly not medically beneficial... It is also one of our oldest books of antiquity. There is Enoch, Sears, and a few other ancients Samarian scrolls. Does have many historic records. Though I doubt a great flood happened because immorality. Religion is man-made.
@thaichatham Reading Shakespeare may give you an idea about the author. But it by no means is a biography. Us interpreting the universe similarly I think gives it value and worth. Want creates value. What good is a song no one hears... Religion I believe is man attempt to make a biography on God, wrapped in stories and historical references. Good stuff in there for sure, but it is not my God either. I think that would also border idolatry.
@thaichatham Man is God-made. God knows you. Remember, just because you don't believe he is does not mean he is not.
And when that day comes that you feel helpless, lost, empty, and confused... God will be there for you waiting... when no one else is. Only when you truly look to him will he reveal himself to you. Let him... see what happens. =)
But if you're simply not capable of believing the absurdity found in religious texts, god (of just about any major religion) will punish you for all eternity. Don't forget to tell the whole story.
@BlueLakeTree how well do you know God? the true God? are you talking about the one who created you? or the one that the Bible teaches you? we can't prove if God really exists, or if he exists then we cannot prove if he really cares for us. We're humans, the bible is written by humans, liars, lunatics, greedy humans. Wat if the God you were worshiping is just a human? then shame on you! It's just written, you weren't there when God spoke to humans. So stop teaching us false belief
@rEsonansDx Ohh you of little intelligence!! God is the Jewish King Jesus of Nazareth, and you non-Jewish peasants were cloned and are nothing but servants to the Jewish Supremacy. Jesus' Kingdom is from the future, and that Jewish future establishes the technologies for time travel. And all of you non-Jewish clones are with no rights of your own you are servants to the Jewish Race.
@76BlueLions Jesus is God? but i thought he was the son of God? read your Jewish bible, Jesus himself said that there is only one God and that is his father. and now you say that Jesus is God? You said I'm of little intelligence. I think yours is not much of a fraction with mine!
@dmcbow- Actions speak louder than words. The witch & YHWH use the same action. Making a desirable looking poison. Would you be so "loving" as to do that to anyone you love? How about doing that to someone you love who has little experience in life? YHWH's actions speak volumes. A truly loving entity would do way better.
With Cain- he cared about pleasing YHWH, or else it wouldn't have bothered him that he didn't. YHWH stuck the knife in & turned it by making Cain feel worthless.
@RODikUlus In his rebellion Cain had a hard heart and wanted to do things his own way, not God's. Like many today, he wanted to make a god in his own image, a god who wouldn't make demands on him, a god who would look the other way when he did evil, a god who wouldn't set boundaries, a god who made him feel good without actually having to be good. PS School started back up/working two jobs--job I do in summer and school--sorry I didn't respond sooner :(
@dmcbow- Cain had a hard heart? If so,YHWH was the cause of that I ask you, will you gather all of your children together, and that you singled them out as your favorite child? Before we go any further...why would you do that, or why wouldn't you do that?
You know my stance, as doing such a thing has a huge potential on creating rivalry. But you as a parent should understand that the cause was you. Rivalry is the effect. Would Cain have "acted up" if YHWH didn't belittle him?
@dmcbow- Did you ever notice that in the "vision" that Ezekiel and John ( Revelation) had, that the 4 living creatures are the zodiac? They were in the 4 corners of the earth, & each had 4 faces. One of a Bull ( Taurus), Man ( Aquarius), Lion ( Leo), & Eagle ( Scorpio). Which came 1st, the bible or the established Zodiac? The Zodiac. So why is biblical god following the template of the well known Zodiac if it's truly demonic? Look at the chart & see if you find the "eyes all around".
@MRKetter81 - I know you read enough of my argument to have given an intelligent counter-response. You didn't. If you can honestly believe that there can be no blame placed on an all powerful being, who knows "the finale before the beginning", then you're brainwashed. It's clear to anyone who's a parent, and even to people that aren't, that you don't gather all of your kids together to tell them one of them is your favorite. According to your opinion the parent is loving in setting up disaster?
@RODikUlus A lion= sovereignty, of supremacy -- "the king of the beasts." A man= intelligence, of understanding. An ox = servitude, of sacrifice. eagle = power and deity, of soaring over all creation. The four gospels present exactly these same qualities in Christ. In Gospel of Matthew as the king -- the lion, the king of beasts, the sovereign of all. In Mark as the servant, the ox. In Luke, he is man in his intelligence, insight, understanding of life. In John=deity. These 4 reflect Christ.
@dmcbow- When I was a Chrisitan, I used to believe these vague explainations on the 4 living creatures. Ancient man wrote in myths. The Zodiac was established far before a man named Moses existed. So where do you think the 4 living creatures originated? Check your Zodiac chart. It's plain to see, that the positioning of these "creatures", with the faces, and the other features, is nothing more than poetic literature describing the well known an worshiped Zodiac chart.
@dmcbow- Even if one of the children are a parents favorite, the seasoned parent would never state such, especially in front of the rest. Their hearts would literally sink. It's about better safe than sorry. But God chooses better sorry than safe...and He KNOWINGLY does this!! Even Joseph tells his brothers that he's the favorite... a common theme in the bible. It's not really true, as the 12 tribes each represent onbe of the houses of the Zodiac. Gen 49
@dmcbow- Later, I'll get into why Jesus ( according to the biblical version of him) never existed, as there was never a reason for him to exist. The Chrisitian belief is that Jesus is a ransom sacrifice. If Jesus never amounted to either a ransom, or a sacrifice, then how could he have been said to exist?
Look into exactly what those words mean, and see if the Jesus biblical scenerio adds up. I've seen it doesn't add up. Math is the highest degree of logic, as it can be used to check itself.
@dmcbow- A perfect being can only make perfect things. Perfect being according to it's purpose. If YHWH put a mechanism within us that allows us to fall short of our inteneded purpose, that isn't our fault...that responsibilty squarely rest with YHWH for allowing us to be temptable to the point where we could ever go against our true purpose. The same applies to angels, esp if 1/3 of them succumb. The only reason to test anything is because you don't know the end result. God testing is pointless
@dmcbow- God said they'd die that very day upon eating the forbidden fruit. If YHWH stuck to his word, then would anyone need to be born in sin? No, for YHWH would've exterminated them before they had any children, & then sin ( that mythical thingie in your blood) wouldn't be in the human race. YHWH just make new humans, give them the same test ( perfect beings have no need to test anything), & there are sure to be kids that were perfect. So, YHWH by not sticking to his word caused sin-KNOWINGLY
@dmcbow- A human can't know precisley every thought pattern of their children. Yet YHWH supposedly does. What point is having omniscience if your not going to use it for the benefit of yourself, & those you care about. So YHWH pulls a bone-head move, & actually tells Cain that Able is His favorite, KNOWING in advance what will happen. How much did YHWH really care for Able?
Even if I were to believe the Genesis account, I couldn't also believe that YHWH is loving. No way...he falls to short.
@RODikUlus "Even if I were to believe the Genesis account, I couldn't also believe that YHWH is loving. No way...he falls to short."
Because he doesn't fit your standard of love? How does your standard measure up? I bet you change your opinion about love on a daily basis, so how is that a standard?
@MRKetter81 - Yes. I stated that YHWH isn't love. Let's see...does your standard of love actually change for the benefit for your belief system? Deep down, U know it's not loving to make temptable beings ( by design), not properly equip them for a "test", & then punish them for being temptable ( by YHWH design) AND their offspring. If so, then it's your opinion about love that changes on a daily basis. So what we have here is a difference in opinion. Care to work it out logically?
@dmcbow- A good parent doesn't present beautiful poison in front of children, then blame the children for the awful result. If man was made in gods image, & you see Eve blame a snake, then Adam blames the woman, realize that the pushing of blame started with YHWH. For how does YHWH have no blame in all of this mythical story?
Ask yourself, why would it be part of the "design" that knowledge be the thing to seperate us from YHWH? If we're made in his image, why wouldn't we want knowledge?
@dmcbow- A loving, caring parent would never tell one child, in front of all the rest, that they are mommy's favorite. Why not? Doing something like that can spark a rebellious child later, or even cause jealousy towards the "favorite". The social developmental skills of any of those not favorited can suffer, which could lead to them being an underachiever. So many things COULD result, but since we don't have omniscience, we ( humans) don't exactly know.
@dmcbow- Ex; You made great food, & desert. You & hubby tell the kids they can eat the food portion, but not the desert, because you've poisoned the desert,. You & your husband KNOW the future, & know that ALL your kids will eat the desert, & will die. When they do die, can you ever say that you never really wanted them to die? At what point do you change your actions?
If you read this scenerio in the paper, you'd see the parents as twisted unfit parents, but you're not seeing YHWH as such. Why
@dmcbow- You told me you have an autistic child. No doubt there are times it can be difficult, as I don"t 1sthand experience , but see my cousin experience. BTW did you see that father who decapitated and dismembered his disabled 7 yr old son? Sick!!!
Here's my point. How much harder do you think taking care of him/her would be, if your child was the 1st autistic child in the world, & there was no knowledge of what their condition was, or knowledge of how to treat/deal with them comfortably?
@RODikUlus I saw the link about that incident but didn't click on b/c it looked too sick. As to your ?, it would be hard. Autism didn't start to come to the forefront until the 1980s-everything previous to that time blamed the mom as being the cause-false. When my son was very small, it was harder-as he grew older, it got easier. He's 21 now, working in the kitchen of a school, seems happy/content. He's very non-materialistic which goes to show you don't need a lot of stuff to be happy.
@dmcbow - Without a wealth of info or even knowing what autism is, it would be very hard to deal with. Now, put that scenerio with Adam & Eve. What did they really "know", if they're supposed to be the 1st people, & banned from full knowledge? Cain may have been the 1st person to deal with hatred & jealousy. Even if he didn't pass with flying colors, did ALL KNOWING God KNOW that His words would cause the rivalry in the 1st place? Do you tell your children they aren't your favorite?
@RODikUlus wealth of info? We live in a time of the greatest information every known to man, yet we still can't get it right. How much more information do we need? Apparently a great deal more, our leaders esp. in light of recent bad behavior. Information isn't going to fix a heart problem. Information isn't going to help when murder starts as hate in the heart. You have to change your heart-Jesus does that-changes you from inside out. He came to make all things new,new creation in Christ
@RODikUlus My son doesn't just have autism--more often than not autism goes hand in hand with cognitive impairments (nice way to say MR). Now I could blame God b/c God could've prevented it, yes, but I know there's a reason. I may not know what that reason is this side of life, but there is a reason. Maybe if he had been born typical he would have been the one who had gone to jail instead of my nephew (for stealing $ from employer) or done something even worse. Who knows?
@dmcbow- The real reason is in the genes. In biblical times, they may have wanted to blame god, but in being fearful of doing so, they blamed it on demons.
About no TV week ( lol) I know that you know that that isn't serious. Be God right now. You have ALL power & KNOW everything before it happens. Why do you present poison in an appetizing way? The witch in Snow White comes to mind. Why didn't God, or the witch let the fruit look rotten? Not too much of a deterent. But angels & sword is.
@RODikUlus Sorry I didn't respond sooner-busy w/ school starting back up soon. Satan is the one who tries to make sin look enticing. Sin is like Snow White's apple--looks great on the outside but when you bite into it-it's ugly w/ even uglier consequences. God is the one who warns you not to do it. Humanism is very seductive b/c man wants to be the one to decide for himself what's right/wrong-thinks he can be god of his own little universe. Man thinks he is in control of his own destiny
@dmcbow - I've been busy too. No need to apologize. I've already shown that biblical God created both paths. He created evil, & sin. The witch in Snow White could have made the poison apple to look rotten, but that'd go against her agenda. Likewise, YHWH could have made the tree of the knowledge appear rotten, but He didn't. Why? According to the text, Eve never heard any warning directly from YHWH, but heard the stipulation through Adam. Why YHWH didn't tell her directly?
@RODikUlus Man has a great capacity to rationalize away responsibility for his actions. We strongly condem others for their mistakes yet when we make mistakes we have excuses as to why it really wasn't that bad or why we're really not that bad b/c we're human don't you know. Maybe God did somehow "show" Adam/Eve what death meant. We don't know. We do know they were warned, they had a choice, and they didn't make the right one.
@dmcbow -If man has a great capacity to rationalize away responsibilities for his actions, then how moreso do those of faith rationalize away the faulty actions of their Gods? If the biblical God is true, then He has the greatest capacity for scapegoating others, as it's easy to see, that YHWH is the cause of everything. Cause and effect.
According to the text, YHWH never directly spoke to Eve. Nowhere in the text did YHWH explain or define death to either of them. In the story...CONT...
@dmcbow CONT... In the biblical story, do you think that Adam & Eve actually called the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil", the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"? According to the text, she said those words. How did she know what evil meant, if they didn't know evil before eating it's fruit? Likewise, saying the word death doesn't mean that they knew what dead was or what it meant. The bigger problem is YHWH not sticking to the punishment, & adding more punishment at a whim.
@RODikUlus but you can't guarantee you'll be alive tomorrow. All this technology & man keeps having same problems over & over--"Freedom from religion?-man is getting his way. How is that working out for us? Not good. Our schools are in lockdown, no one feels safe to let their kids roam the neighborhoods, families are in shambles--I work at a school I see it 1sthand. It's bad. We've been cut loose form our moral anchor & we're adrift in a sea of moral relativism-we're about to hit the rocks
@RODikUlus Back to the autism theme-tie it in w/ faith. My senses/feelings tell me that my son's autism is really a bad thing--he has MR (21 yrs old w/ mind of a 4th grader), will never drive a car, never get married, never live w/o some kind of help/support, can hardly talk. Faith-trusting God in spite of what my senses/feelings tell me. My senses/feelings are limited sometimes flawed but faith tells me that all things work together for good for those who love God.
@dmcbow- Have you ever told your children you would punish them, by only telling them that if they ate a peticular goodie, they couldn't watch T.V. for a month? They did & you punish them with a far greater punishment than the one you originally stated. On top of them not watching T.V., you've banned them from having friends forever. YHWH does this by telling Adam only that He'd die in that very day. He never stated He'd have to work hard, & that ALL the human race sufferes for it!! Who's wrong?
@RODikUlus I did worse than that--we had No TV week in our house once a month lol. The couple didn't immediately die physically, by God's grace it was postponed to a later time, but they did die spiritually (Eph 2:1-& you were dead in your trespasses & sin) It doesn't mean unbelievers can do no good-it describes their hopeless condition as separated from God. Salvation removes that separation& locates believers "in Christ Jesus".
@dmcbow - Like I said, sin is mythical. How long was the time between the writing of Genesis, and these scriptures to "clarify" what Genesis meant? The "spiritual death" & the thousand year "day", are just dishonest teachings to try and cover up loopholes. Just like the freewill doctrine? You said before that I'm using freewill to either respond to you or not. Not true, I'm making a choice. Simple. If it were free, then there'd be no cost involved- but there is- so it was never free.
@RODikUlus I know sin isn't mythical b/c the consequences of sin are very real both in my life and others around me. Commit adultery & your life is guaranteed to go down the toilet. Steal, kill, your life is guaranteed to get a great deal more complicated. Hate, pride, envy, will all make your life worse instead of better. Pick up the paper & you'll read about someone who did whatever was right in their own eyes, & now they're in jail or dead. Go outside the boundaries God set=trouble
@dmcbow - This is not absolute. The innocent suffer also. Speaking to a corrections officer, who told me of a recent case of a prisoner, charged guilty has DNA evidence finally let him go free after serving 18 years. many innocent people are killed. So the killer gets a worse life, but the innocent victim get death? How does this balance anything?
Sin is mythical, as the consequense isn't because of sin...it's because of choices. What choice can you seperate from it's cost/consequence?
@dmcbow - When giving a punishment to your children ( in unison with your husband..of course). Ex; You made great food with desert. You both tell your kids if they eat any of it, they're grounded for a week. So they eat some of it. Do you & hubby ADD to the punishment that you stated previously? On top of grounding them for a week, you both ground them years, then don't even let their kids, or their kids kids ( 3 generations deep) ever enjoy desert. Why punish their kids? Why ADD to your "word"?
@RODikUlus If death doesn't act as a deterrent I don't know what will & death is what they were warned about. Death is about as bad as it gets esp. if it's spiritual death--staying dead in your trespasses and sin when there's a way out. The only thing worse than physical death is spiritual death.
@dmcbow- Did Adam & Eve know what death meant? I say no...they've never seen it. Being told you'll die isn't to fearful when you hear a "loving" god tell you that, but stand at the edge of the Grand Canyon cliff, & ask yourself if they would have jumped. I say no, because that was visually scary...an innate trigger within us. Why would "god" put 2 angels with a flaming turning sword to guard AFTER the fact, when that's what he could have used in the 1st place? It shows it's a set up.
@tzaroxx If there is no God then you have nothing to worry about--you'll just be worm food like everybody else. Then I guess life would be pointless for you except for your "If- it-feels good-do -it- eat-drink- and-be-merry for- tomorrow- you- may- die philosophy. I believe there's so much more than what we are limited to by our senses.
@tzaroxx When you can't defend your position & instead resort to verbally attacking your opponent it's to try and divert from the fact that you can't effectively refute what they have to say. It didn't take you long.
RODikUlus and dmcbow i didn't even read that stuff u wrote, but all i can say you've both missed the mystery of life. the mystery and the purpose of life is to be happy and that's all. i doubt you're happy while writing all that things. just relax and have a good time. there's no guarantee about life after death, evolution and all other sciencies are just a scratch of the truth. in fact, we don't know anything about what we are, who we are... and probably we will never find out. it's pointless
@tzaroxx Being happy is fine, but what are you going to do when life throws you a curve ball & everything isn't so great. Life isn't one big party despite what people like to think, and life isn't all about us--how many people take their own supposed happiness at the expense of others? Life isn't pointless, that's the point.
@tzaroxx - You'd have to do alot of reading to see our debate. You'll see I thoroughly agree with you. I do disagree with you on the point of us never finding out our true origins. It just takes an indepth study and understanding on what consciousness is, and understanding our 3 states of consciousness. I don't believe in a "God", but understand that we are the universe experiencing itself.
@dmcbow- That view has been around even longer than Christianity. There is nothing "New" about it. Check teachings of the orient/East. Make an observance, and ask yourself, was the earth truly made for humans? The human, & every organism on it adapts to the earth, & not the other way around. How was earth made for us, if we're the ones that have to adapt to it?
@RODikUlus Earth was made for humans--anthropic principles: Oxygen Level--On earth, oxygen comprises 21 percent of the atmosphere. That precise figure is an Anthropic Constant that makes life on earth possible. If oxygen were 25% fires would erupt spontaneously, if it were 15%, human beings would suffocate. If the atmosphere were less transparent, not enough solar radiation would reach the earth’s surface. more transparent we would be bombarded with far roo much solar radiation down here.
@dmcbow- You also display the argument of true love not being possible unless a being can choose to do otherwise. From my understanding of the Chrisitian God, He CAN'T do evil, as if He is INCAPABLE of showing anything but love. So, with your argument, coupled with your belief in biblical God, is biblical God able to show TRUE LOVE?
@RODikUlus There are different types of love-philia love (brotherly love), eros (sexual love)-which is mostly the meaning of love today. Agape love-sacrificial love is not based on a feeling, but a determined act of the will, a joyful resolve to put the welfare of others above our own. This type of love does not come naturally to humans. Because of our fallen nature, we are incapable of producing such a love. If we are to love as God loves, w/ agape love--can only come from its true Source.
@dmcbow - There are different types of love. Sacrificial love comes naturally for many humans- even non- religious ones. I can't count how many times I've read an article of a person risking his life for a stranger, or a strangers' child. It is natural for us to do so. In fact, in the movie, Armeggedon, Bruce Willis character had the choice to give up his life for all of humanity, even though it meant never seeing his daughter again. Many people, if in that situation, would do the same.
@RODikUlusRomans 5:7-8 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Would you take the place of a murderer on death row? Parents may pay for the ransom of a child, but they are highly unlikely to post bond for their child's kidnapper! And yet this is in essence exactly what God did for us! He died for the wicked/ungodly.
@dmcbow -"Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man". Huh? Are you aware of how many people died for Japan in wars. How many died for America? Some are forced to participate in war against their will by law, but many want to be in war. It's nationalistic pride. In those types of peoples eyes, their country can do no wrong. In ancient days, people were even more gullible...so you can kinda do the math. Do you remember that spaceship behind haileys comet-they killed themselves-good man?
@RODikUlus The point is that while some would die for a righteous man, yes, how many would be willing to take a murderer's place on death row? Would you? I wouldn't, but Christ would and did. He took everyone's penalty for their sin on Himself. The poor people who followed the cult of Hailey's comet were involved in some type of cult.
@dmcbow -The point being, many people die for wicked people. Anyone who has nationalistic pride does so willfully. One who is willing to blow themselves up, dies for the wicked mans agenda. This has been happening, and will continue happening, as long as people remain weak-minded. How do you know that a man named Jesus willingly died for a murderers place? Can you prove this to yourself, and then to me?
@RODikUlus If someone blows themselves up as in a suicide bomber, it's b/c they think it's going to get them something--a place in heaven. Christ died on the cross for anyone who has ever done evil--& plenty of people have murdered. He did it for no other reason than He loved us in spite of the fact that we are too often unlovable.
@dmcbow - There's not a son of God named Christ, who died for everyone. Like I said, explain to me the biblical scenerio of Jesus, & show me clearly how Jesus was a ransom sacrifice. If Jesus wasn't a ransom, nor a sacrifice, then guess what...logic can conclude that Jesus was never needed in order for us to be consciously aware beings now.
You can blindly believe the black book, or you can use your mind to show you it's falliable.
@dmcbow - You asked about which person is scarier. Then you bring up this suicide bomber without mentioning that both of you's motivation is the same thing. It's called faith. Yep, A STRONG belief that is hard to get the person to stop believing. These types of persons don't need evidence based on reality to convince them. They only need to believe that their belief of choice is the true connection to a true God. After that, you are a slave. You'd even go kill if you thought God was backing it.
@dmcbow- You basically have an argument of biblical God showing love, by presenting poison to his children. If he didn't present poison to his children, then He wouldn't ( by your definition) be displaying true love. Really??? Can you see how sick, & illogical this thinking is? I hope you do.
Present poison to your children, while continuing to believe that's true love...I will be against you if you do this sort of thing. Now, if you KNOW that's not love, why is it when biblical God does it?
@RODikUlus Not by presenting poison, by presenting choices. Throughout Scripture the Bible continuously instructs mankind to make righteous decisions by free will b/c God knows what will happen if they don't (that's the poison). Deuteronomy 30:11 Deuteronomy 30:15 If God MADE Adam/Eve choose what He wanted then they wouldn't have had true freedom. To deny man's free will means that all real choices only belong to God - including the choice to sin--then man wouldn't have freedom either.
@dmcbow - Then why would God equate one of the choices He created to affect us as poison would? Why would He make it appetizing? Why would He create within us the innate desire to want to know more, then withold us from satisfying that desire that He put there? Why would God create temptable angels & mankind, & then punish them for being temptable?
There's no such thing a sin. Sin is mythical & is ancients only way to explain death, because they couldn't.
@RODikUlus If there were no such thing as sin then why are so many people's lives a complete trainwreck after ignoring God's commands? You can enjoy the pleasure of sin for a season but the pleasure is temporary, the addiction permanent, God is the author of real enjoyment/true life. This is the reason he refers to us as "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1). Our sin has cut us off from the Source of spiritual life. We are like trees disconnected from their roots.
@dmcbow - There is no such thing as sin. Sin is mythical, and I explained how easily ancient man came up with "sin", by being as observant as an ancient person could be. Some people do positive things, and some do negative things. There is a balance of these opposing forces. If only you could take the mythical sin out of the equation, you'll see that we have choices.
All of these choices, ( positive & negative), were created by biblical God ( if the bible is true).
@RODikUlus God warns against sin b/c He knows how much heartache/destruction sin can bring to our lives, the emptiness it can leave you with in the long run, the addiction. Rewording sin as a negative choice, a wrong decision, still won't keep the consequences of sin from happening. Call it what you want, if you pursue wickedness in this life chances are you aren't going to live long, you will have a lot of stress in your life, a lot of unhapiness in the long run.
@dmcbow - Your god doesn't warn against sin. He made sin exist, because he would have been bored otherwise. Can you imagine how exciting we would be to him if we had no conflict? What book, or movie did you read that was exciting with no conflict?
Mankind was not created by an invisible being, and mankind was making choices. When men sprang up who wanted to control the masses, they knew they'd have to act as if a creator speaks to them. Why? Men don't listen to well to other men.
@RODikUlus If God made sin exist, then no one is responsible for their actions. It's all God's fault. I must be a lousy parent then b/c I always told my kids they were responsible for their actions. If they did something naughty, I didn't say to them, "Don't worry about it. You couldn't help it. It's all God's fault you know." Bad decisions, poor choices--call what you want but as exciting as it may be, in the end you'll end up empty, broken, unsatisfied, addicted.
@dmcbow - According to the biblical storyline, logic concludes that God made sin, as He knew He was giving rise to it. If I knew my bullet was going to shoot an inocent bystander, how does my responsibilty disappear? How did God's disappear? How do you think He created a "tree of the knowledge of good & evil"? How did He create such a thing before mankind ever sinned in the 1st place? I've already asked you 4 times now...can I eat a food that your God didn"t create? God scapegoats us.
@RODikUlus How you make sin? What does it look like? If it's created, what form does it take? What color is it? What shape is it? About the food thing--idk. If you kill someone try telling the judge you weren't responsible for your actions, that it was God's fault. You won't get very far. Yes, God created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? So? No one forced Adam/Eve to eat of it. Freewill--they weren't puppets or some pets in the garden or robots.
@dmcbow Sin is mythical. All made up in the mind of ancients who didn't know why people die, so they came up with their best phylisophical answer. I can believe anything is true and tangible, but does that make it so? However, if you want to continue acting as if biblical God is real, then I'll only show how He had to create hell, and sin. You agree that your god had created ( mythical) the tree with evil in it. If God made that tree, then he created both paths to take. He's responsible.
@RODikUlus If I followed my kids around, ages 18 & 23, (won't count son w/ autism) & only allowed them to make good choices, never let them make a mistake, would they be free beings ? In order for Adam/Eve to be truly free they had to have a choice-what's the opposite of good? evil.
@dmcbow - There's more than 1 way to make a good choice, and more than 1 way to make an "evil" one. It's purely and more accurately positive and negative, which will exist together forever. In the analogy with you following your kids around- add in the ability of omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscient, which actually conclude that you are the one who designed all the paths your children can take. Also, if you want to play God, then take credit for the way humans thought process works.
@RODikUlus I don't know who is scariest: a person who has no hope, a person who does whatever is right in their own eyes, or a person who won't take responsiblity for their own actions-unless it's someone who has no hope AND does whatever is right in their own eyes AND won't take responsibility for their own actions--kinda of like the looters in London. You say you have no hope, but I do b/c God's word is true, HIs prophecies have all come true-- keep your eye on Israel-He's not done w/ them
@dmcbow - A person who has faith in a hope ( because that's all faith is anyway) is actually a scary thing in and of itself. Many who live guided by faith live in la la land. Not being based in reality, is what faith relies on. read Hebrews chap 11, as I found it peculiar that "faith" is the ONLY word given an actual dictionary definition in the entire bible. ALL religions rely on faith. You're in the same boat with all the rest of them.
Occams razor gives me a better chance at being right
@dmcbow- True. It is scary to witness someone who never thinks they're wrong, no matter what they do. So why do you worship him? You have already unknowingly admitted ( just like I've been saying) that YHWH created evil. He made every choice to be made..so He in effect knowingly created the only way that evil could have entered the world. Who created the tree of knowledge of evil? Who gave that tree it's abilities? Didn't purpose exist before the creation of anything? If so, God can't be perfect
@dmcbow- Let's make you God. You have kids. Have you ever told one of your kids in front of the rest of them, that they were your favorite child? God already knew that Cain would deal with feelings of jealousy that NO human previously did before. These humans ( Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel) had to be completely inexperienced with life, as they're the 1st humans taking a 1st crack at it. Who else could they observe and learn from? Why would God knowingly start a fued when He's supposed to know better?
@RODikUlus The truth hurts--cain wanted to do things his own way, not God's way. He was mad, he should've been mad at himself for not doing what he was supposed. Murder started as hate in the heart. Yet again, man has never changed. Tell them the truth & they get mad & kill. 2 Tim. 4:3-For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound &wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires & will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."
@dmcbow- I knew you'd blame Cain. If YHWH is all knowing, he should know how to parent. I asked you, have you ever told 1 of your kids, in front of all the others, that they was your favorite child? Please answer. If you never did that, I commend you for not doing what god did. Doing that can mentally disturb a childs development, as all they want to do is please you, and find out from you they aren't, when they thought they were. They question themselves...leads to other things.
@dmcbow- Truth hurts. You admitted that YHWH had to create evil, as He himself states in the bible. This God saw fit to make Cain feel unworthy & jealous of his brother. Let me ask you this- If YHWH told both Abel & Cain that they both please him...would Cain have done that? Cause and effect. What was the cause? Who's the ONLY one that knew the end result? YHWH, that's who. Cain is the equivalent of a teenager trying to deal with newfound raging hormones not fully understanding them.
@dmcbow - Also, another question: If the tables were turned, and YHWH told Cain his offering was acceptable, and Abels wasn't, would Abel have murdered Cain? Did you ever think of this before.
Like you said, truth hurts. Look at the Genesis account in it's entirety, & in all fairness. This is what you'll learn:
Ignorant people are at one with their God, and only knowledge can destroy that connection.
@RODikUlus God wouldn't have told Abel that b/c he OBEYED. I work at a school. When a child gets in trouble, he/she almost always blames someone else. When a child loses at a game, he/she will almost always accuse the winner of cheating after the game is over. Man's nature has never changed. It's always the same. In the supposed millions of yrs. it took to evolve, man changed from protplasm to complex human (all by random chance mutations--lol)& human nature has remained exactly the same
@dmcbow-Religion was mankinds 1st attempt at philosophy. The religious stories attempted to explain alot, as alot of thought went into them. Religion was to explain everything to an ancient. This was understandable...back then. How well would a religion do if it didn't at least "appear" to have all the answers. That's why all religions appear to have all the answers. Con-artist also appear to be the real deal. But not to a skeptic. Wait..if humans are complex, how much moreso would YHWH be?
@dmcbow - Actually they both OBEYED. Show me from the direct text that Cain never oberyed YHWH. If he didn't obey YHWH, state exactly what law/commandment/order/stipulation Cain didn't obey.
"Man's nature has never changed"- every biological form of life seeks what's best for them, or else the species goes extinct. Man naturally wants to do away with those who don't agree with his ideas, or ultimate goals. That's why the bible writers made God act like that too-to explain why we act that way.
@RODikUlus Never in history has man had so much knowledge/technology & we're still as barbaric as ever. We sacrifice our young like the ancient Caanites on the altar of convenience/choice & are so eager to do so we can't wait until they're born.WWI was "the war to end all wars" yeah, right, that's worked out well for us. 50 yrs. ago if you had told someone our schools would be in lockdown, they would've laughed. Parents are afraid of their kids being snatched in their own neighborhoods.
@RODikUlus Cain's problem wasn't jealousy/hatred at 1st-it was his lack of obedience (his choice) leading to his jealousy/hatred of Abel. I Sam. 15:22-But Samuel replied: "Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams." Caine wanted to do things his way like people today, then when they do their own thing & their lives are trainwrecks, they wonder why.
@dmcbow - When, & how did Cain disobey? How did Caine disobey YHWH before both brothers offered up what they thought was acceptable and valuable? Was it God's birthday that day, so that YHWH expects everyone to give gifts at the same time? Was the sacrificed a planned and ordered thing for both Able, & Caine, or did they both just happen to want to present YHWH an offering at the same time, from their own initiative? It seems planned to me...another "convienent" set-up.
@dmcbow - This scripture in 1 Sam isn't some "inspired" scripture. It's the same thing as saying "One ounce of prevention, is better than a pound of cure". It doesn't actually take any type of divine, or inspired type of thinking to observe this. However, it does take observance...which is something an omniscient God would NOT need in order to know certain things. When the bible does tell a truth, you'll see it will be advice that any observant man could have wrote. "Divinity" wasn't nesessary.
@dmcbow-There are drivers who mistakenly kill people, and aren't charged due to the nature of the accident. You take out one very important dynamic that a judge would need to know if he is to make a fair judgement. All-knowing. Knowing in advance what would happen before it happened. If God KNEW in advance what would happen, then a judge would charge him, as He can't act as if He was negligent, or ignorant about the situation. He knew. Kinda like a set-up. He knew.
@RODikUlus There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that eating the fruit truly gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge. Who knows? It was the act of disobedience that opened Adam and Eve’s eyes to evil. Their sin of disobeying God brought sin and evil into the world and into their lives. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve knowledge of evil.
@dmcbow- The bible again disagrees with you. For in Gen 3:22, God Himself states that Adam & Eve now know what He and the rest of the Elohim He is acknowledging here know. So, what is it that has opened God's eyes to evil? Disobeying Himself?
God creates a tree that has the ability to add knowledge to the eater, just as the tree of life has the ability to add everlasting life to the eater. The myth attempts to explain why we die...cuz they didn't really know.
@RODikUlus Why, then, did God allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve? God allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve to force them to make the choice. Adam and Eve chose, of their own free will, to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit. What amazes me is that like in garden of Eden, man still today makes excuses for their wrong actions, avoid personal responsibility, become defensive. Adam blamed Eve, Eve blames the snake. man today still tries to set himself free from moral/spiritual responsiblities.
@dmcbow-God would have only allowed that because He was bored & thought having conflict was so much more interesting. In the story, Adam wasn't anywhere near the forbidden tree, nor does the story say that the forbidden fruit looked different from fruit they could eat. Eve, when presenting it to him, never mentioned it being from the forbidden tree...so yeah, Adam can rightfully blame Eve. However, the main person avoiding any blame is God, as his significant powers can't excuse Him.
@RODikUlus So God fills the garden w/ all kind of fruit trees that could be eaten--gave them one rule to follow, put only one tree off limits. So if God filled the garden w/ only trees that could all be eaten, all good trees where is the choice? You can choose b/w good, good, or good? What kind of choice is that? Man would be some kind of pet w/ no true freedom. If I gave you 20+ good choices & only one bad choice & warned you about that bad choice &you picked bad, sorry, it's on you.
@dmcbow - Are you acting as if having a choice between different varieties of tasty things isn't a choice? Once there is a variety, there is a choice. 1st of all, you haven't thought everything through. If God knew in advance that he creates a poison ( knowledge) that he puts an imaginery "sinful" stamp on, then made man inherantly crave knowledge, that man wouldn't fall for a "temptation", by being created 1st and foremost TEMPTABLE. YHWH is ridiculously crazed.
@dmcbow-Scapegoating is a practice where ancients ( some do it today) put their sin upon a goat, & then drive the goat off into the desert with no food or water, so that it dies. When the goat dies, the sin dies with the goat. Sounds fair? So, your God is actually using his human subjects and is scapegoating them. He puts the sins on the people, & the people die. He gets to continue living scott free, even when He's responsible for sin existing. I'm glad biblical god is most likely fake.
@RODikUlus scapegoating was a foreshadowing of what Christ did on the cross. He took the penalty for man's sin on Himself on the cross. Christ became our scapegoat for us. Our sins were placed on Him on the cross. Fair? I'm glad God doesn't give us what we deserve. If you don't want to accept what He did that's your choice.
@dmcbow - Huh? God the father tells his son that He needs his human sacrifice in order to be appeased with His own creation...to have a better relationship with mankind. What did the Son present the Father with so this transaction was complete? Perfect human blood. Yep. God makes a big deal till he accepts as payment the very thing He creates out of thin air!!! Amazing! It makes no sense. Why can't God freely forgive, or is that too hard for Him? Seems so.
@RODikUlus The wages of sin are death, yes, not b/c God needs to punish us. we have spent our history murdering one another. He grants us the freedom to love, without which love is impossible. His respect for that freedom means that he hands us over to the consequences of our own actions. He lets us punish ourselves. The Father doesn’t punish the Son for sin. He sends the Son to bear the burden of sin that we are already inflicting on each other.
@dmcbow "The wages of sin are death". Even your bible disagrees with this. Read Gen 3:22
When Jesus asked for the cup to be removed from him, what did he imply? Are you saying that even if Jesus didn't decide to go through with it, God would have acted as if Jesus didn't sin? Please explain how Jesus wouldn't have commited sin if this happened.
@RODikUlus adultery may seem exciting at 1st but as Proverbs warns, "Drink water from your own cistern, running waters from your own well. Should your springs overflow in the streets, your streams of water in the public squares? Let them be yours alone, never to be shared w/ strangers. May your fountain be blessed & may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. . .why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife?
@dmcbow- Proverbs is a book of wise sayings. That's what proverb means. There are even ancient Chinese proverbs. Wisdom denotes observance. It's why an Adam or Eve couldn't possibly be wise. For who could they observe make mistakes or triumphs? That's why they HAD to be inexperienced to say the least...& wise God sees fit to pin our lives on their actions? Please.
Adultery happened waaay before Proverbs was a thought, so Proverbs is just someone writing observances. Doesn't mean it's from god.
@RODikUlusIt's not just Proverbs, it's I Thess. 4:3-8, Hebrews 13:4, I Corinthians 6:13, 18, 20. It's not just adultery, the bible warns against so many things b/c God knows the destruction it can lead when man chooses otherwise--pride, lying, false witness, bitterness, rage, anger, brawling, slander, malice, murder, etc. Man ignores God's commands, does whatever is right in his own eyes, then when something terrible happens, wring their hands & wonder why & the candlelight vigils continue
@dmcbow - There were already other civilizations before the bible writers. You have vast religious works from Eygypt and Babylon ( sumer) waaay before the bible was even a thought. The bible, no matter what verse you pick, only has words that resulted from an observance. Laws existed way before 10 commandments. Men wrote the bible, and it's not hard to see.
@RODikUlus mankind can't keep his own laws, let alone God's. 10 Commandments aren't just a bunch of dos/don'ts. They point out our sin, place responsiblity for it on us but offers no remedy. law helps people see their sinfulness, to show them the seriousness of their offenses against a holy, perfect God. That's why we need Christ. w/ all our knowledge, technology w/ man being supposedly inherently good, we should've been able to create utopia by now but can't b/c we're fighting so much
@RODikUlus (cont)For a man's ways are in full view of the Lord, & He examines all his paths. The evil deeds of a wicked man ensnare him; the cords of his sin hold him fast. He will die for lack of discipline, led astray by his own great folly. "Can a man scoop fire into his lap w/o his clothes being burned? Can a man walk on hot coals w/o his feet being scorched? So is he who sleeps w/ another man's wife; no one who touches her will go unpunished.
@RODikUlus Proverbs "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. Blows & disgrace are his lot and his shame will never be wiped away for jealousy arouses a husband's fury, and he will show no mercy when he takes revenge." These verses are a strong warning against adultery. I know 1st hand about how adultery destroys. My brother's wife cheated on him-destroyed their marriage. It may have seemed exciting to her at 1st, but became nothing but misery.
@RODikUlus Why doesn't man listen well to other men? James 4-"What is the source of the wars/fights among you? Don't they come from the cravings that are at war within you? You desire & don't have. You murder & covet & can't obtain. You fight & war. You do not have b/c you do not ask. You ask & don't receive b/c you ask wrongly, so that you may spend it on your desires for pleasure." More knowledge/technology available to man than ever before & never has he lacked so much wisdom.
@dmcbow - The elite rulers figured out how to rule the masses easier early on. Make them believe that religion is in touch with the entity that created us. Once they believe that, they're easier to control. What could mankind do to show that they have wisdom?
The source of war is someone has something another wants. Another reason would be why God forced Israel to war with other nations...namely, because they wanted to incorportate it's religion and thinking over more territory.
@dmcbow - Then create all the choices your children can take, and make sure to throw in their choices that seem nice, and some that will instantly kill them. Would you bring a guillatene, or a gun into existance, if you KNEW your children ( who you are supposed to love) would curiously try out that new and interesting contraption?
God put a tree of knowledge within easy reach, made it desirable, makes it sinful, knowing all along Adam & Eve will take it. Why didn't decendents get tree of life?
@dmcbow - "To deny man's free will means that all real choices only belong to God-" So, where is the choice that man has within free will to sin, and live forever? If that's not a choice, then the only real choice does belong to God.
Where is the choice for man to rule themselves independent of ANY good, or evil invisible creature pulling the strings on all our affairs? If it were free will, then you'd never say you were born a sinner, because you'd never choose to start a race disadvantaged.
@dmcbow- "all are sinners", & "everyone has freewill" don't go hand in hand. If you had freewill, would you actally choose to be a sinner, and choose death?
Having freewill would mean you'rer free to choose at all times. Being born a sinner, and the teaching that it's out of your control fits anything but "freewill".
Christopher Hitchens- How free is freewill? ANS- It's so free, you don't have a choice. You HAVE to have it.
@RODikUlus God gave us true freedom by surrendering a degree of his own power over to us. We cannot be real creatures capable of true love, true goodness, true evil without free agency. If we do not have free will life loses all true meaning & value. We are free to choose good or bad, free to love or hate. Why doesn't God jump in & stop bad things before they happen? It would be violating our freedom & making us choose whatever God wanted rather than letting us choose on our own.
@dmcbow - You as a mom can't display real love to your children, without the possibility of also being able to "dash them against the rocks"? "Why doesn't God jump in & stop bad things before they happen?" He did alot of that in the bible. Remember the Tower of Babel- what truly bad thing did biblical God stop in that instance? Sodom & Gom..what did he stop there? Nothing!! Also, when you see biblical God "hardening" a person's heart, how much of this freewill is actually up to the individual?
@RODikUlus@dmcbow- I think that's interesting. Would you be able to display real love to your children, if killing them, or neglecting them wasn't an possible option? I do understand your point though. But that point only touches on the value of the action by the one percieving the action. However it still would amount to true love being displayed. How could you equate it to anything other than true love? In order to solidify your stance, please explain how it's not true love.
@dmcbow - You stated that God would be violating our freewill/freedom. I do know that in the bible, God "hardened" Pharoahs heart for His benefit. Also, when the disciples were asking Jesus about the blind man, Jesus said that man was born blind so the glory of God can be shown--never mind the part of them asking if his blindness being the result of something he did before being born ( a biblical hint to the belief in reincarnation). If that man could choose to blind or not,he'd choose not.
@dmcbow - Occam's Razor is no longer valid. The main flaw in the equation is overlooked. You're assuming that you have the right God. Not having the right God is the reason for the probabilty anyway. Let's not forget that. What if you die, and found out the Mormons were right all along? Or what if Allah doesn't appreciate you ignoring Islam for your entire earthly life? Hindusim...I can go on and on here. But you should start seeing that the probability isn't 50/50 in your favor anymore.
@RODikUlus@dmcbow- The more "jealous" God's there are who could turn out to be true, the more your chances drop. But not mine. My probability still stands at 50%. Your chances of being correct keep falling. What a waste it would be to spend your entire human life ( the one you KNOW you have) on a belief that has an ever increasing chance of you being wrong.
@RODikUlus But you don't think you have to have it, you don't want it, you reject it, that's your choice. Many think that if God put us here on earth /created world for us to live in, then it makes sense that the greatest good is our immediate sense of personal pleasure/satisfaction. If there is some circumstance in which we can't have immediate satisfaction, then God must not exist, abandoned us, or be evil for allowing such a thing. To acknowledge God as good He must give liberty to all
@dmcbow - You don't have freewill. It's purely a doctrine. If frewill were true, why do you reject the logic that you should be able to choose even being tested in the 1st place? If that in itself is one choice we can't make, then how free is it if we can't make the biggest choice of all?
Your argument sounds like you've assumed correctly that credit goes to your God for all life existing. You only have a strong feeling that you may be right. It's why you bring up Occam"s Razor. It's not 50/50
@dmcbow - You don't even believe this, as you actually feel I'm using my frewill ( or my try) to make what is in your opinion a wrong choice. It's just a choice. If your God was real, & had all the powers you believe he does, then it's intellectually dishonest to ignore that He also is the designer of the right path, and the wrong one.
Like I asked, ( according to your belief), can I eat a food your God never created? You asked what food. I said rice. Can I eat rice if God never created it?
@RODikUlus (cont) our passions? And if He doesn't--if He doesn't allow us what we want, when we want it. if He ever asks for self sacrifice, in He ever allows a condition in which we hurt, in which we suffer, in which we experience inconvience, if He ever allows a circumstance in which our bodily desires aren't given full reing, He must be a cruel God. We think life is all about pleasure/our happiness. Our personal happiness, pleasure, enjoyment are the most important things in life.
@dmcbow - At the end of the day, it's your God that looks selfish. When the Israelites were in the desert for 40 yrs ( unlikely) why would a God who knows they're going to respond in such a way, actually get angry with them. We are biological creatures that find punishment in an enviroment our bodies were never designed for as being very irritatable. Why didn't God become a human & walk in the desert so he can suffer, and show empathy? Nope- He'd rather do some throne-sitting.
@dmcbow - A dog has the innate desire to be hungry, and thirsty. If I created dogs, I would know this, & then see fit to make sure the dog is provided for. If I didn't like the idea of a dog being able to pee on valuable things, then I would make it so it can't do that. Mankind has the desire to want more knowledge, & more life. If God didn't want us to want to know what He knows, then He wouldn't put a tree of knowledge within grasp, & furthermore kill our desires to want to learn. Simple
@dmcbow-Here's a tangent. I saw a rainbow today. Got to thinking about the biblical reason for them to exist. After Noah's Flood, YHWH said He'll put a rainbow there to remind everyone of His promise that He won't ever flood the earth again. OK. Can you tell me why a rainbow NEVER comes out after a torrential downpour at NIGHT?
The more you look at this, & other things, you start to see the bible is fairytales. Remember, it was written at a time when myth & folklore were common.
@RODikUlus Study Bible prophecy--not a fairytale. "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling ... I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. (Zechariah 12:2, 3) Why is the Israel/Arab conflict now the UN's #1 problem? Bible predicted Jew would be scattered throughout the world then become a nation again--happened in May, 1948, along w/ other signs happening at same time, not just Israel.
@dmcbow - I must look into this info on Israel that you believe. I must say that I don't know too much on this subject, but I still doubt that being a prophesy, as a prophesy would say exactly when it is to occur.
Are you saying that Jews were scattered around the world, and after May 1948 that Jews weren't scattered around the world anymore?
@RODikUlus Prophecy is simply history written in advance. Doesn't have to set dates. No nation in history has been able to maintain its national identity after being uprooted from its homeland for more than 300 yrs, let alone 2000. The fact that 6 millions Jews are living in Israel now is a testimony to the faithfulness of God who always keeps His word. He promised so many times to regather the nation back to their homeland that if He had failed to do so, He would've been proven unfaithful
@dmcbow _Where do you get your unbiased info regarding Israel? Since I don't know much about Israel's fulfillment of anything within "the last days". Show me a good place to start-make sure it's unbiased. Thanks n advance.
@RODikUlus In Genesis 17:1-8 God made a covenant with Abraham an unconditional one, that He is going to keep as an" everlasting covenant." The papacy bought into replacement theology-Jews rejected Christ so God was done with them & the church became the spiritual Israel & not a very good one at that b/c over the yrs. the church became a corrupt religious state using the Jews rejection of Christ as an excuse to persecute the Jews, as did others (Deut. 28:65-67) but God isn't done with Israel
@RODikUlus Isaiah 66:22-"As the new heavens & the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the Lord, "so will your name & descendants endure." The Jews would survive as a people despite the Assyrians almost wiping out 10 of the 12 tribes, the Babylonians, the Romans, the papacy, The nazis sought to annihilate the Jewishs race, the Nazi empire reduced to ashes shortly b/f Jews reclaimed Israel, Jews are still here every empire that wanted to destroy them are pages in history books
@RODikUlus Psalms 83-"See how Your enemies have acted arrogantly. They devise clever schemes against your people, they conspire against Your treasured ones. They say, "Come, let us wipe them out as a nation so that Israel's name will no longer be remembered. For they have conspired w/ 1 mind, they form an alliance against You-the tents of Edom, the Ishmaelites, Moab, the Hagrites, Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek, Philistia w/ the inhabitants of Tyre, even Assyria has joined them; they lend support
@RODikUlus (cont)to the sons of Lot." The descendents of these now Muslim nations hate Israel, they are NOT interested in peace. They want to wipe Israel off the face of the map--that's their ultimate goal. Keep an eye on Israel. They are completely surrounded by their enemies. Israel is the apple of God's eye. He won't let that happen. It's going to get interesting in the coming years with Israel.
@dmcbow - Much of the bible is heresay. Especially the Gospels. Ask yourself if Jesus ever wrote anything, & why. The reason why Jesus didn't write anything, or why his body was "taken away" shows that the most powerful evidence was never there to begin with. If it was, then why would God remove the evidence?
Just like a magican, the Christian faith gets you to keep your eye on what they want you to see, & ignore the obvious. Christianity is out of a job if they don't redirect your eye.
@RODikUlus Would 12 men be persecuted, beaten, stoned, jailed, exiled & die for hearsay? who in their right mind would die for hearsay? They didn't think it would earn them a spot in heaven like the 9/11 hijackers.They died to just spread the good news of Christ , 2 Cor. 5:7-We walk by faith not by sight. 2 Cor. 4:18-So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." The things of this world are passing away.
@dmcbow - Sure 12 men could die for something that made no sense. Many cults today show testiment to this weakness of those members of mankind that need something to believe in. If they were real, they died because they were killed in 1 way or another. Yes, hearsay. A careful comparision of the gospels show they don't even agree with one another. Even later, Paul gives evidence that he was lying about his meeting of supernatural Christ on the road to Damascus.
@RODikUlusBible prophecy-- Is Israel a nation again (after being scattered for thousands of yrs, why weren't they absorbed into the cultures to which they were scattered?) , while world moving towards 1-world govt, while natural disasters increase, while violence increases, while there's a great increase in knowledge/modes of transporation, while israel is able to make the desert bloom/fill world with fruit, prosperity for israel/prevail over enemies although severely outnumbered.
@RODikUlus There are many prophecies about Israel alone: Israel was to be born in a day Isaiah 66:7-8-B/f she goes into labor, she gives birth; b/f the pain comes upon her she delivers a son. Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor that she gives birth to her children." May 1948-in a 24 hr span foreign control of Israel ceased & Israel declared independence.
@RODikUlus Joel 3:2 (written about 400 BC)-"I will gather all nations & bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for THEY SCATTERED MY PEOPLE AMONG THE NATIONS & DIVIDED (PARTED) UP MY LAND). Israel has already been forced to give up land they had --the Gaza strip (land for "peace") and nations are pressing Israel now for a two state solution to the conflict b/w Isaac & Ishmael's descendants.
so all of it came from an event that just happened to pop into existence.now that makes real sense.im laughing so hard it hurts. an we get life as we know it from non life.wow what idiot can except that reasoning.
MrBeefreetwo 1 week ago
no one really knows nothing,atheists believe its all by chance an random processes,god people believe in an intelligent designer an fine tuning.i myself would take the latter cause to me it makes more sense. atheists cannt explain good an evil an who sets those standards,surely it cannot be man or society.
MrBeefreetwo 1 week ago
1 question has been on my mind for over a decade now; if jimmy cracks corn but no one cares why does he keep doing it? Madness i tell you!
XSoulStormX 2 weeks ago
@XSoulStormX You are one strange human...
DeviousBetrayer 2 weeks ago
Dover trial anyone?
amazingrando1138 3 weeks ago
stupid religious stuff dude ....
djay00009 4 months ago
@djay00009 Blind ignorant athiest comments dudette.
peipappy1 3 months ago
@djay00009 Blind ignorant athiest comments dudette.
peipappy1 3 months ago
@peipappy1 stupid guy who is religious thinking its all true ... Total BS
djay00009 3 months ago
@djay00009 Stupid stuff? Because it makes you think? Because if you acknowledge God, then what? Then you have to change your mentality and life goals and purposes? Because then you do have an authority to answer to?
He lovingly waits for you to seek him.
If you don't believe then seek out truth. See where it takes you. =)
Honesty is life's most vital energy.
BlueLakeTree 1 month ago
Screw the christianity and religous speak. I came here looking for answers and i now see i was stupid, misleading title.
Zippo271 4 months ago
@Zippo271 please add (religious) in the title also* fixed
Zippo271 4 months ago
@Zippo271 Yeah, I agree with you.
1337RecklessX 4 months ago
@Zippo271 you lcearly didn't watch it. I don't think there is one reference in the video to the bible at all. It is a purely scientific video. Better question, ever ask yourself who/what is asking in the first place. Why are these atom "awake" at all?
thaichatham 3 months ago
@thaichatham How on earth is it "Science" with religion? . now quiet jesus-boy
Zippo271 3 months ago
@Zippo271 Lmao. Yeah there are holes in the bible certainly. Cain went on to the land of Nod, but his family was the first? Moses prescribes a medical procedure that involves throwing goats blood on somebody. Clearly not medically beneficial... It is also one of our oldest books of antiquity. There is Enoch, Sears, and a few other ancients Samarian scrolls. Does have many historic records. Though I doubt a great flood happened because immorality. Religion is man-made.
thaichatham 3 months ago
@thaichatham Reading Shakespeare may give you an idea about the author. But it by no means is a biography. Us interpreting the universe similarly I think gives it value and worth. Want creates value. What good is a song no one hears... Religion I believe is man attempt to make a biography on God, wrapped in stories and historical references. Good stuff in there for sure, but it is not my God either. I think that would also border idolatry.
thaichatham 3 months ago
@thaichatham Man is God-made. God knows you. Remember, just because you don't believe he is does not mean he is not.
And when that day comes that you feel helpless, lost, empty, and confused... God will be there for you waiting... when no one else is. Only when you truly look to him will he reveal himself to you. Let him... see what happens. =)
BlueLakeTree 1 month ago
@BlueLakeTree
But if you're simply not capable of believing the absurdity found in religious texts, god (of just about any major religion) will punish you for all eternity. Don't forget to tell the whole story.
TheSeventhSon 1 month ago
@BlueLakeTree how well do you know God? the true God? are you talking about the one who created you? or the one that the Bible teaches you? we can't prove if God really exists, or if he exists then we cannot prove if he really cares for us. We're humans, the bible is written by humans, liars, lunatics, greedy humans. Wat if the God you were worshiping is just a human? then shame on you! It's just written, you weren't there when God spoke to humans. So stop teaching us false belief
rEsonansDx 6 days ago
@rEsonansDx Ohh you of little intelligence!! God is the Jewish King Jesus of Nazareth, and you non-Jewish peasants were cloned and are nothing but servants to the Jewish Supremacy. Jesus' Kingdom is from the future, and that Jewish future establishes the technologies for time travel. And all of you non-Jewish clones are with no rights of your own you are servants to the Jewish Race.
76BlueLions 2 days ago
@76BlueLions Jesus is God? but i thought he was the son of God? read your Jewish bible, Jesus himself said that there is only one God and that is his father. and now you say that Jesus is God? You said I'm of little intelligence. I think yours is not much of a fraction with mine!
rEsonansDx 2 days ago
@dmcbow- Actions speak louder than words. The witch & YHWH use the same action. Making a desirable looking poison. Would you be so "loving" as to do that to anyone you love? How about doing that to someone you love who has little experience in life? YHWH's actions speak volumes. A truly loving entity would do way better.
With Cain- he cared about pleasing YHWH, or else it wouldn't have bothered him that he didn't. YHWH stuck the knife in & turned it by making Cain feel worthless.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus In his rebellion Cain had a hard heart and wanted to do things his own way, not God's. Like many today, he wanted to make a god in his own image, a god who wouldn't make demands on him, a god who would look the other way when he did evil, a god who wouldn't set boundaries, a god who made him feel good without actually having to be good. PS School started back up/working two jobs--job I do in summer and school--sorry I didn't respond sooner :(
dmcbow 4 months ago
@dmcbow- Cain had a hard heart? If so,YHWH was the cause of that I ask you, will you gather all of your children together, and that you singled them out as your favorite child? Before we go any further...why would you do that, or why wouldn't you do that?
You know my stance, as doing such a thing has a huge potential on creating rivalry. But you as a parent should understand that the cause was you. Rivalry is the effect. Would Cain have "acted up" if YHWH didn't belittle him?
RODikUlus 4 months ago
@dmcbow- Did you ever notice that in the "vision" that Ezekiel and John ( Revelation) had, that the 4 living creatures are the zodiac? They were in the 4 corners of the earth, & each had 4 faces. One of a Bull ( Taurus), Man ( Aquarius), Lion ( Leo), & Eagle ( Scorpio). Which came 1st, the bible or the established Zodiac? The Zodiac. So why is biblical god following the template of the well known Zodiac if it's truly demonic? Look at the chart & see if you find the "eyes all around".
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus What kind of retarded off shoot argument are you trying to make?
I swear... you can't fix stupid.
MRKetter81 5 months ago
@MRKetter81 - Can you point out which line of reasoning in my argument is "off"? Please do this first before the namecalling. Thanks in advance:>)
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@MRKetter81 - I know you read enough of my argument to have given an intelligent counter-response. You didn't. If you can honestly believe that there can be no blame placed on an all powerful being, who knows "the finale before the beginning", then you're brainwashed. It's clear to anyone who's a parent, and even to people that aren't, that you don't gather all of your kids together to tell them one of them is your favorite. According to your opinion the parent is loving in setting up disaster?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus A lion= sovereignty, of supremacy -- "the king of the beasts." A man= intelligence, of understanding. An ox = servitude, of sacrifice. eagle = power and deity, of soaring over all creation. The four gospels present exactly these same qualities in Christ. In Gospel of Matthew as the king -- the lion, the king of beasts, the sovereign of all. In Mark as the servant, the ox. In Luke, he is man in his intelligence, insight, understanding of life. In John=deity. These 4 reflect Christ.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow- When I was a Chrisitan, I used to believe these vague explainations on the 4 living creatures. Ancient man wrote in myths. The Zodiac was established far before a man named Moses existed. So where do you think the 4 living creatures originated? Check your Zodiac chart. It's plain to see, that the positioning of these "creatures", with the faces, and the other features, is nothing more than poetic literature describing the well known an worshiped Zodiac chart.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- Even if one of the children are a parents favorite, the seasoned parent would never state such, especially in front of the rest. Their hearts would literally sink. It's about better safe than sorry. But God chooses better sorry than safe...and He KNOWINGLY does this!! Even Joseph tells his brothers that he's the favorite... a common theme in the bible. It's not really true, as the 12 tribes each represent onbe of the houses of the Zodiac. Gen 49
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- Later, I'll get into why Jesus ( according to the biblical version of him) never existed, as there was never a reason for him to exist. The Chrisitian belief is that Jesus is a ransom sacrifice. If Jesus never amounted to either a ransom, or a sacrifice, then how could he have been said to exist?
Look into exactly what those words mean, and see if the Jesus biblical scenerio adds up. I've seen it doesn't add up. Math is the highest degree of logic, as it can be used to check itself.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- A perfect being can only make perfect things. Perfect being according to it's purpose. If YHWH put a mechanism within us that allows us to fall short of our inteneded purpose, that isn't our fault...that responsibilty squarely rest with YHWH for allowing us to be temptable to the point where we could ever go against our true purpose. The same applies to angels, esp if 1/3 of them succumb. The only reason to test anything is because you don't know the end result. God testing is pointless
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- God said they'd die that very day upon eating the forbidden fruit. If YHWH stuck to his word, then would anyone need to be born in sin? No, for YHWH would've exterminated them before they had any children, & then sin ( that mythical thingie in your blood) wouldn't be in the human race. YHWH just make new humans, give them the same test ( perfect beings have no need to test anything), & there are sure to be kids that were perfect. So, YHWH by not sticking to his word caused sin-KNOWINGLY
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- A human can't know precisley every thought pattern of their children. Yet YHWH supposedly does. What point is having omniscience if your not going to use it for the benefit of yourself, & those you care about. So YHWH pulls a bone-head move, & actually tells Cain that Able is His favorite, KNOWING in advance what will happen. How much did YHWH really care for Able?
Even if I were to believe the Genesis account, I couldn't also believe that YHWH is loving. No way...he falls to short.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus "Even if I were to believe the Genesis account, I couldn't also believe that YHWH is loving. No way...he falls to short."
Because he doesn't fit your standard of love? How does your standard measure up? I bet you change your opinion about love on a daily basis, so how is that a standard?
MRKetter81 5 months ago
@MRKetter81 - Yes. I stated that YHWH isn't love. Let's see...does your standard of love actually change for the benefit for your belief system? Deep down, U know it's not loving to make temptable beings ( by design), not properly equip them for a "test", & then punish them for being temptable ( by YHWH design) AND their offspring. If so, then it's your opinion about love that changes on a daily basis. So what we have here is a difference in opinion. Care to work it out logically?
Mayb
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- A good parent doesn't present beautiful poison in front of children, then blame the children for the awful result. If man was made in gods image, & you see Eve blame a snake, then Adam blames the woman, realize that the pushing of blame started with YHWH. For how does YHWH have no blame in all of this mythical story?
Ask yourself, why would it be part of the "design" that knowledge be the thing to seperate us from YHWH? If we're made in his image, why wouldn't we want knowledge?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- A loving, caring parent would never tell one child, in front of all the rest, that they are mommy's favorite. Why not? Doing something like that can spark a rebellious child later, or even cause jealousy towards the "favorite". The social developmental skills of any of those not favorited can suffer, which could lead to them being an underachiever. So many things COULD result, but since we don't have omniscience, we ( humans) don't exactly know.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- Ex; You made great food, & desert. You & hubby tell the kids they can eat the food portion, but not the desert, because you've poisoned the desert,. You & your husband KNOW the future, & know that ALL your kids will eat the desert, & will die. When they do die, can you ever say that you never really wanted them to die? At what point do you change your actions?
If you read this scenerio in the paper, you'd see the parents as twisted unfit parents, but you're not seeing YHWH as such. Why
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- You told me you have an autistic child. No doubt there are times it can be difficult, as I don"t 1sthand experience , but see my cousin experience. BTW did you see that father who decapitated and dismembered his disabled 7 yr old son? Sick!!!
Here's my point. How much harder do you think taking care of him/her would be, if your child was the 1st autistic child in the world, & there was no knowledge of what their condition was, or knowledge of how to treat/deal with them comfortably?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus I saw the link about that incident but didn't click on b/c it looked too sick. As to your ?, it would be hard. Autism didn't start to come to the forefront until the 1980s-everything previous to that time blamed the mom as being the cause-false. When my son was very small, it was harder-as he grew older, it got easier. He's 21 now, working in the kitchen of a school, seems happy/content. He's very non-materialistic which goes to show you don't need a lot of stuff to be happy.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - Without a wealth of info or even knowing what autism is, it would be very hard to deal with. Now, put that scenerio with Adam & Eve. What did they really "know", if they're supposed to be the 1st people, & banned from full knowledge? Cain may have been the 1st person to deal with hatred & jealousy. Even if he didn't pass with flying colors, did ALL KNOWING God KNOW that His words would cause the rivalry in the 1st place? Do you tell your children they aren't your favorite?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus wealth of info? We live in a time of the greatest information every known to man, yet we still can't get it right. How much more information do we need? Apparently a great deal more, our leaders esp. in light of recent bad behavior. Information isn't going to fix a heart problem. Information isn't going to help when murder starts as hate in the heart. You have to change your heart-Jesus does that-changes you from inside out. He came to make all things new,new creation in Christ
dmcbow 5 months ago
@RODikUlus My son doesn't just have autism--more often than not autism goes hand in hand with cognitive impairments (nice way to say MR). Now I could blame God b/c God could've prevented it, yes, but I know there's a reason. I may not know what that reason is this side of life, but there is a reason. Maybe if he had been born typical he would have been the one who had gone to jail instead of my nephew (for stealing $ from employer) or done something even worse. Who knows?
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow- The real reason is in the genes. In biblical times, they may have wanted to blame god, but in being fearful of doing so, they blamed it on demons.
About no TV week ( lol) I know that you know that that isn't serious. Be God right now. You have ALL power & KNOW everything before it happens. Why do you present poison in an appetizing way? The witch in Snow White comes to mind. Why didn't God, or the witch let the fruit look rotten? Not too much of a deterent. But angels & sword is.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus Sorry I didn't respond sooner-busy w/ school starting back up soon. Satan is the one who tries to make sin look enticing. Sin is like Snow White's apple--looks great on the outside but when you bite into it-it's ugly w/ even uglier consequences. God is the one who warns you not to do it. Humanism is very seductive b/c man wants to be the one to decide for himself what's right/wrong-thinks he can be god of his own little universe. Man thinks he is in control of his own destiny
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - I've been busy too. No need to apologize. I've already shown that biblical God created both paths. He created evil, & sin. The witch in Snow White could have made the poison apple to look rotten, but that'd go against her agenda. Likewise, YHWH could have made the tree of the knowledge appear rotten, but He didn't. Why? According to the text, Eve never heard any warning directly from YHWH, but heard the stipulation through Adam. Why YHWH didn't tell her directly?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus Man has a great capacity to rationalize away responsibility for his actions. We strongly condem others for their mistakes yet when we make mistakes we have excuses as to why it really wasn't that bad or why we're really not that bad b/c we're human don't you know. Maybe God did somehow "show" Adam/Eve what death meant. We don't know. We do know they were warned, they had a choice, and they didn't make the right one.
dmcbow 4 months ago
@dmcbow -If man has a great capacity to rationalize away responsibilities for his actions, then how moreso do those of faith rationalize away the faulty actions of their Gods? If the biblical God is true, then He has the greatest capacity for scapegoating others, as it's easy to see, that YHWH is the cause of everything. Cause and effect.
According to the text, YHWH never directly spoke to Eve. Nowhere in the text did YHWH explain or define death to either of them. In the story...CONT...
RODikUlus 4 months ago
@dmcbow CONT... In the biblical story, do you think that Adam & Eve actually called the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil", the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"? According to the text, she said those words. How did she know what evil meant, if they didn't know evil before eating it's fruit? Likewise, saying the word death doesn't mean that they knew what dead was or what it meant. The bigger problem is YHWH not sticking to the punishment, & adding more punishment at a whim.
RODikUlus 4 months ago
@RODikUlus but you can't guarantee you'll be alive tomorrow. All this technology & man keeps having same problems over & over--"Freedom from religion?-man is getting his way. How is that working out for us? Not good. Our schools are in lockdown, no one feels safe to let their kids roam the neighborhoods, families are in shambles--I work at a school I see it 1sthand. It's bad. We've been cut loose form our moral anchor & we're adrift in a sea of moral relativism-we're about to hit the rocks
dmcbow 5 months ago
@RODikUlus Back to the autism theme-tie it in w/ faith. My senses/feelings tell me that my son's autism is really a bad thing--he has MR (21 yrs old w/ mind of a 4th grader), will never drive a car, never get married, never live w/o some kind of help/support, can hardly talk. Faith-trusting God in spite of what my senses/feelings tell me. My senses/feelings are limited sometimes flawed but faith tells me that all things work together for good for those who love God.
dmcbow 4 months ago
@dmcbow- Have you ever told your children you would punish them, by only telling them that if they ate a peticular goodie, they couldn't watch T.V. for a month? They did & you punish them with a far greater punishment than the one you originally stated. On top of them not watching T.V., you've banned them from having friends forever. YHWH does this by telling Adam only that He'd die in that very day. He never stated He'd have to work hard, & that ALL the human race sufferes for it!! Who's wrong?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus I did worse than that--we had No TV week in our house once a month lol. The couple didn't immediately die physically, by God's grace it was postponed to a later time, but they did die spiritually (Eph 2:1-& you were dead in your trespasses & sin) It doesn't mean unbelievers can do no good-it describes their hopeless condition as separated from God. Salvation removes that separation& locates believers "in Christ Jesus".
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - Like I said, sin is mythical. How long was the time between the writing of Genesis, and these scriptures to "clarify" what Genesis meant? The "spiritual death" & the thousand year "day", are just dishonest teachings to try and cover up loopholes. Just like the freewill doctrine? You said before that I'm using freewill to either respond to you or not. Not true, I'm making a choice. Simple. If it were free, then there'd be no cost involved- but there is- so it was never free.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus I know sin isn't mythical b/c the consequences of sin are very real both in my life and others around me. Commit adultery & your life is guaranteed to go down the toilet. Steal, kill, your life is guaranteed to get a great deal more complicated. Hate, pride, envy, will all make your life worse instead of better. Pick up the paper & you'll read about someone who did whatever was right in their own eyes, & now they're in jail or dead. Go outside the boundaries God set=trouble
dmcbow 4 months ago
@dmcbow - This is not absolute. The innocent suffer also. Speaking to a corrections officer, who told me of a recent case of a prisoner, charged guilty has DNA evidence finally let him go free after serving 18 years. many innocent people are killed. So the killer gets a worse life, but the innocent victim get death? How does this balance anything?
Sin is mythical, as the consequense isn't because of sin...it's because of choices. What choice can you seperate from it's cost/consequence?
RODikUlus 4 months ago
@dmcbow - hey, where'd you go?
RODikUlus 2 months ago
@dmcbow - When giving a punishment to your children ( in unison with your husband..of course). Ex; You made great food with desert. You both tell your kids if they eat any of it, they're grounded for a week. So they eat some of it. Do you & hubby ADD to the punishment that you stated previously? On top of grounding them for a week, you both ground them years, then don't even let their kids, or their kids kids ( 3 generations deep) ever enjoy desert. Why punish their kids? Why ADD to your "word"?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus If death doesn't act as a deterrent I don't know what will & death is what they were warned about. Death is about as bad as it gets esp. if it's spiritual death--staying dead in your trespasses and sin when there's a way out. The only thing worse than physical death is spiritual death.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow- Did Adam & Eve know what death meant? I say no...they've never seen it. Being told you'll die isn't to fearful when you hear a "loving" god tell you that, but stand at the edge of the Grand Canyon cliff, & ask yourself if they would have jumped. I say no, because that was visually scary...an innate trigger within us. Why would "god" put 2 angels with a flaming turning sword to guard AFTER the fact, when that's what he could have used in the 1st place? It shows it's a set up.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
and yes, there is no such thing as god u ignorant and blind fool :D
tzaroxx 5 months ago
@tzaroxx If there is no God then you have nothing to worry about--you'll just be worm food like everybody else. Then I guess life would be pointless for you except for your "If- it-feels good-do -it- eat-drink- and-be-merry for- tomorrow- you- may- die philosophy. I believe there's so much more than what we are limited to by our senses.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@tzaroxx When you can't defend your position & instead resort to verbally attacking your opponent it's to try and divert from the fact that you can't effectively refute what they have to say. It didn't take you long.
dmcbow 5 months ago
RODikUlus and dmcbow i didn't even read that stuff u wrote, but all i can say you've both missed the mystery of life. the mystery and the purpose of life is to be happy and that's all. i doubt you're happy while writing all that things. just relax and have a good time. there's no guarantee about life after death, evolution and all other sciencies are just a scratch of the truth. in fact, we don't know anything about what we are, who we are... and probably we will never find out. it's pointless
tzaroxx 5 months ago
@tzaroxx Being happy is fine, but what are you going to do when life throws you a curve ball & everything isn't so great. Life isn't one big party despite what people like to think, and life isn't all about us--how many people take their own supposed happiness at the expense of others? Life isn't pointless, that's the point.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@tzaroxx - You'd have to do alot of reading to see our debate. You'll see I thoroughly agree with you. I do disagree with you on the point of us never finding out our true origins. It just takes an indepth study and understanding on what consciousness is, and understanding our 3 states of consciousness. I don't believe in a "God", but understand that we are the universe experiencing itself.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus "We are the universe experiencing itself"- that sounds New Age?
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow- That view has been around even longer than Christianity. There is nothing "New" about it. Check teachings of the orient/East. Make an observance, and ask yourself, was the earth truly made for humans? The human, & every organism on it adapts to the earth, & not the other way around. How was earth made for us, if we're the ones that have to adapt to it?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus Earth was made for humans--anthropic principles: Oxygen Level--On earth, oxygen comprises 21 percent of the atmosphere. That precise figure is an Anthropic Constant that makes life on earth possible. If oxygen were 25% fires would erupt spontaneously, if it were 15%, human beings would suffocate. If the atmosphere were less transparent, not enough solar radiation would reach the earth’s surface. more transparent we would be bombarded with far roo much solar radiation down here.
dmcbow 4 months ago
@dmcbow- You also display the argument of true love not being possible unless a being can choose to do otherwise. From my understanding of the Chrisitian God, He CAN'T do evil, as if He is INCAPABLE of showing anything but love. So, with your argument, coupled with your belief in biblical God, is biblical God able to show TRUE LOVE?
Please explain.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus There are different types of love-philia love (brotherly love), eros (sexual love)-which is mostly the meaning of love today. Agape love-sacrificial love is not based on a feeling, but a determined act of the will, a joyful resolve to put the welfare of others above our own. This type of love does not come naturally to humans. Because of our fallen nature, we are incapable of producing such a love. If we are to love as God loves, w/ agape love--can only come from its true Source.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow - There are different types of love. Sacrificial love comes naturally for many humans- even non- religious ones. I can't count how many times I've read an article of a person risking his life for a stranger, or a strangers' child. It is natural for us to do so. In fact, in the movie, Armeggedon, Bruce Willis character had the choice to give up his life for all of humanity, even though it meant never seeing his daughter again. Many people, if in that situation, would do the same.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlusRomans 5:7-8 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Would you take the place of a murderer on death row? Parents may pay for the ransom of a child, but they are highly unlikely to post bond for their child's kidnapper! And yet this is in essence exactly what God did for us! He died for the wicked/ungodly.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow -"Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man". Huh? Are you aware of how many people died for Japan in wars. How many died for America? Some are forced to participate in war against their will by law, but many want to be in war. It's nationalistic pride. In those types of peoples eyes, their country can do no wrong. In ancient days, people were even more gullible...so you can kinda do the math. Do you remember that spaceship behind haileys comet-they killed themselves-good man?
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus The point is that while some would die for a righteous man, yes, how many would be willing to take a murderer's place on death row? Would you? I wouldn't, but Christ would and did. He took everyone's penalty for their sin on Himself. The poor people who followed the cult of Hailey's comet were involved in some type of cult.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow -The point being, many people die for wicked people. Anyone who has nationalistic pride does so willfully. One who is willing to blow themselves up, dies for the wicked mans agenda. This has been happening, and will continue happening, as long as people remain weak-minded. How do you know that a man named Jesus willingly died for a murderers place? Can you prove this to yourself, and then to me?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus If someone blows themselves up as in a suicide bomber, it's b/c they think it's going to get them something--a place in heaven. Christ died on the cross for anyone who has ever done evil--& plenty of people have murdered. He did it for no other reason than He loved us in spite of the fact that we are too often unlovable.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - There's not a son of God named Christ, who died for everyone. Like I said, explain to me the biblical scenerio of Jesus, & show me clearly how Jesus was a ransom sacrifice. If Jesus wasn't a ransom, nor a sacrifice, then guess what...logic can conclude that Jesus was never needed in order for us to be consciously aware beings now.
You can blindly believe the black book, or you can use your mind to show you it's falliable.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow - You asked about which person is scarier. Then you bring up this suicide bomber without mentioning that both of you's motivation is the same thing. It's called faith. Yep, A STRONG belief that is hard to get the person to stop believing. These types of persons don't need evidence based on reality to convince them. They only need to believe that their belief of choice is the true connection to a true God. After that, you are a slave. You'd even go kill if you thought God was backing it.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- You basically have an argument of biblical God showing love, by presenting poison to his children. If he didn't present poison to his children, then He wouldn't ( by your definition) be displaying true love. Really??? Can you see how sick, & illogical this thinking is? I hope you do.
Present poison to your children, while continuing to believe that's true love...I will be against you if you do this sort of thing. Now, if you KNOW that's not love, why is it when biblical God does it?
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus Not by presenting poison, by presenting choices. Throughout Scripture the Bible continuously instructs mankind to make righteous decisions by free will b/c God knows what will happen if they don't (that's the poison). Deuteronomy 30:11 Deuteronomy 30:15 If God MADE Adam/Eve choose what He wanted then they wouldn't have had true freedom. To deny man's free will means that all real choices only belong to God - including the choice to sin--then man wouldn't have freedom either.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow - Then why would God equate one of the choices He created to affect us as poison would? Why would He make it appetizing? Why would He create within us the innate desire to want to know more, then withold us from satisfying that desire that He put there? Why would God create temptable angels & mankind, & then punish them for being temptable?
There's no such thing a sin. Sin is mythical & is ancients only way to explain death, because they couldn't.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus If there were no such thing as sin then why are so many people's lives a complete trainwreck after ignoring God's commands? You can enjoy the pleasure of sin for a season but the pleasure is temporary, the addiction permanent, God is the author of real enjoyment/true life. This is the reason he refers to us as "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1). Our sin has cut us off from the Source of spiritual life. We are like trees disconnected from their roots.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow - There is no such thing as sin. Sin is mythical, and I explained how easily ancient man came up with "sin", by being as observant as an ancient person could be. Some people do positive things, and some do negative things. There is a balance of these opposing forces. If only you could take the mythical sin out of the equation, you'll see that we have choices.
All of these choices, ( positive & negative), were created by biblical God ( if the bible is true).
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus God warns against sin b/c He knows how much heartache/destruction sin can bring to our lives, the emptiness it can leave you with in the long run, the addiction. Rewording sin as a negative choice, a wrong decision, still won't keep the consequences of sin from happening. Call it what you want, if you pursue wickedness in this life chances are you aren't going to live long, you will have a lot of stress in your life, a lot of unhapiness in the long run.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow - Your god doesn't warn against sin. He made sin exist, because he would have been bored otherwise. Can you imagine how exciting we would be to him if we had no conflict? What book, or movie did you read that was exciting with no conflict?
Mankind was not created by an invisible being, and mankind was making choices. When men sprang up who wanted to control the masses, they knew they'd have to act as if a creator speaks to them. Why? Men don't listen to well to other men.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus If God made sin exist, then no one is responsible for their actions. It's all God's fault. I must be a lousy parent then b/c I always told my kids they were responsible for their actions. If they did something naughty, I didn't say to them, "Don't worry about it. You couldn't help it. It's all God's fault you know." Bad decisions, poor choices--call what you want but as exciting as it may be, in the end you'll end up empty, broken, unsatisfied, addicted.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - According to the biblical storyline, logic concludes that God made sin, as He knew He was giving rise to it. If I knew my bullet was going to shoot an inocent bystander, how does my responsibilty disappear? How did God's disappear? How do you think He created a "tree of the knowledge of good & evil"? How did He create such a thing before mankind ever sinned in the 1st place? I've already asked you 4 times now...can I eat a food that your God didn"t create? God scapegoats us.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus How you make sin? What does it look like? If it's created, what form does it take? What color is it? What shape is it? About the food thing--idk. If you kill someone try telling the judge you weren't responsible for your actions, that it was God's fault. You won't get very far. Yes, God created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? So? No one forced Adam/Eve to eat of it. Freewill--they weren't puppets or some pets in the garden or robots.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow Sin is mythical. All made up in the mind of ancients who didn't know why people die, so they came up with their best phylisophical answer. I can believe anything is true and tangible, but does that make it so? However, if you want to continue acting as if biblical God is real, then I'll only show how He had to create hell, and sin. You agree that your god had created ( mythical) the tree with evil in it. If God made that tree, then he created both paths to take. He's responsible.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus If I followed my kids around, ages 18 & 23, (won't count son w/ autism) & only allowed them to make good choices, never let them make a mistake, would they be free beings ? In order for Adam/Eve to be truly free they had to have a choice-what's the opposite of good? evil.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - There's more than 1 way to make a good choice, and more than 1 way to make an "evil" one. It's purely and more accurately positive and negative, which will exist together forever. In the analogy with you following your kids around- add in the ability of omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscient, which actually conclude that you are the one who designed all the paths your children can take. Also, if you want to play God, then take credit for the way humans thought process works.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus I don't know who is scariest: a person who has no hope, a person who does whatever is right in their own eyes, or a person who won't take responsiblity for their own actions-unless it's someone who has no hope AND does whatever is right in their own eyes AND won't take responsibility for their own actions--kinda of like the looters in London. You say you have no hope, but I do b/c God's word is true, HIs prophecies have all come true-- keep your eye on Israel-He's not done w/ them
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - A person who has faith in a hope ( because that's all faith is anyway) is actually a scary thing in and of itself. Many who live guided by faith live in la la land. Not being based in reality, is what faith relies on. read Hebrews chap 11, as I found it peculiar that "faith" is the ONLY word given an actual dictionary definition in the entire bible. ALL religions rely on faith. You're in the same boat with all the rest of them.
Occams razor gives me a better chance at being right
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- True. It is scary to witness someone who never thinks they're wrong, no matter what they do. So why do you worship him? You have already unknowingly admitted ( just like I've been saying) that YHWH created evil. He made every choice to be made..so He in effect knowingly created the only way that evil could have entered the world. Who created the tree of knowledge of evil? Who gave that tree it's abilities? Didn't purpose exist before the creation of anything? If so, God can't be perfect
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- Let's make you God. You have kids. Have you ever told one of your kids in front of the rest of them, that they were your favorite child? God already knew that Cain would deal with feelings of jealousy that NO human previously did before. These humans ( Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel) had to be completely inexperienced with life, as they're the 1st humans taking a 1st crack at it. Who else could they observe and learn from? Why would God knowingly start a fued when He's supposed to know better?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus The truth hurts--cain wanted to do things his own way, not God's way. He was mad, he should've been mad at himself for not doing what he was supposed. Murder started as hate in the heart. Yet again, man has never changed. Tell them the truth & they get mad & kill. 2 Tim. 4:3-For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound &wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires & will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow- I knew you'd blame Cain. If YHWH is all knowing, he should know how to parent. I asked you, have you ever told 1 of your kids, in front of all the others, that they was your favorite child? Please answer. If you never did that, I commend you for not doing what god did. Doing that can mentally disturb a childs development, as all they want to do is please you, and find out from you they aren't, when they thought they were. They question themselves...leads to other things.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- Truth hurts. You admitted that YHWH had to create evil, as He himself states in the bible. This God saw fit to make Cain feel unworthy & jealous of his brother. Let me ask you this- If YHWH told both Abel & Cain that they both please him...would Cain have done that? Cause and effect. What was the cause? Who's the ONLY one that knew the end result? YHWH, that's who. Cain is the equivalent of a teenager trying to deal with newfound raging hormones not fully understanding them.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow - Also, another question: If the tables were turned, and YHWH told Cain his offering was acceptable, and Abels wasn't, would Abel have murdered Cain? Did you ever think of this before.
Like you said, truth hurts. Look at the Genesis account in it's entirety, & in all fairness. This is what you'll learn:
Ignorant people are at one with their God, and only knowledge can destroy that connection.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus God wouldn't have told Abel that b/c he OBEYED. I work at a school. When a child gets in trouble, he/she almost always blames someone else. When a child loses at a game, he/she will almost always accuse the winner of cheating after the game is over. Man's nature has never changed. It's always the same. In the supposed millions of yrs. it took to evolve, man changed from protplasm to complex human (all by random chance mutations--lol)& human nature has remained exactly the same
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow-Religion was mankinds 1st attempt at philosophy. The religious stories attempted to explain alot, as alot of thought went into them. Religion was to explain everything to an ancient. This was understandable...back then. How well would a religion do if it didn't at least "appear" to have all the answers. That's why all religions appear to have all the answers. Con-artist also appear to be the real deal. But not to a skeptic. Wait..if humans are complex, how much moreso would YHWH be?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow - Actually they both OBEYED. Show me from the direct text that Cain never oberyed YHWH. If he didn't obey YHWH, state exactly what law/commandment/order/stipulation Cain didn't obey.
"Man's nature has never changed"- every biological form of life seeks what's best for them, or else the species goes extinct. Man naturally wants to do away with those who don't agree with his ideas, or ultimate goals. That's why the bible writers made God act like that too-to explain why we act that way.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus Never in history has man had so much knowledge/technology & we're still as barbaric as ever. We sacrifice our young like the ancient Caanites on the altar of convenience/choice & are so eager to do so we can't wait until they're born.WWI was "the war to end all wars" yeah, right, that's worked out well for us. 50 yrs. ago if you had told someone our schools would be in lockdown, they would've laughed. Parents are afraid of their kids being snatched in their own neighborhoods.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@RODikUlus Cain's problem wasn't jealousy/hatred at 1st-it was his lack of obedience (his choice) leading to his jealousy/hatred of Abel. I Sam. 15:22-But Samuel replied: "Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams." Caine wanted to do things his way like people today, then when they do their own thing & their lives are trainwrecks, they wonder why.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - When, & how did Cain disobey? How did Caine disobey YHWH before both brothers offered up what they thought was acceptable and valuable? Was it God's birthday that day, so that YHWH expects everyone to give gifts at the same time? Was the sacrificed a planned and ordered thing for both Able, & Caine, or did they both just happen to want to present YHWH an offering at the same time, from their own initiative? It seems planned to me...another "convienent" set-up.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow - This scripture in 1 Sam isn't some "inspired" scripture. It's the same thing as saying "One ounce of prevention, is better than a pound of cure". It doesn't actually take any type of divine, or inspired type of thinking to observe this. However, it does take observance...which is something an omniscient God would NOT need in order to know certain things. When the bible does tell a truth, you'll see it will be advice that any observant man could have wrote. "Divinity" wasn't nesessary.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow-There are drivers who mistakenly kill people, and aren't charged due to the nature of the accident. You take out one very important dynamic that a judge would need to know if he is to make a fair judgement. All-knowing. Knowing in advance what would happen before it happened. If God KNEW in advance what would happen, then a judge would charge him, as He can't act as if He was negligent, or ignorant about the situation. He knew. Kinda like a set-up. He knew.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that eating the fruit truly gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge. Who knows? It was the act of disobedience that opened Adam and Eve’s eyes to evil. Their sin of disobeying God brought sin and evil into the world and into their lives. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve knowledge of evil.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow- The bible again disagrees with you. For in Gen 3:22, God Himself states that Adam & Eve now know what He and the rest of the Elohim He is acknowledging here know. So, what is it that has opened God's eyes to evil? Disobeying Himself?
God creates a tree that has the ability to add knowledge to the eater, just as the tree of life has the ability to add everlasting life to the eater. The myth attempts to explain why we die...cuz they didn't really know.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus Why, then, did God allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve? God allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve to force them to make the choice. Adam and Eve chose, of their own free will, to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit. What amazes me is that like in garden of Eden, man still today makes excuses for their wrong actions, avoid personal responsibility, become defensive. Adam blamed Eve, Eve blames the snake. man today still tries to set himself free from moral/spiritual responsiblities.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow-God would have only allowed that because He was bored & thought having conflict was so much more interesting. In the story, Adam wasn't anywhere near the forbidden tree, nor does the story say that the forbidden fruit looked different from fruit they could eat. Eve, when presenting it to him, never mentioned it being from the forbidden tree...so yeah, Adam can rightfully blame Eve. However, the main person avoiding any blame is God, as his significant powers can't excuse Him.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus So God fills the garden w/ all kind of fruit trees that could be eaten--gave them one rule to follow, put only one tree off limits. So if God filled the garden w/ only trees that could all be eaten, all good trees where is the choice? You can choose b/w good, good, or good? What kind of choice is that? Man would be some kind of pet w/ no true freedom. If I gave you 20+ good choices & only one bad choice & warned you about that bad choice &you picked bad, sorry, it's on you.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - Are you acting as if having a choice between different varieties of tasty things isn't a choice? Once there is a variety, there is a choice. 1st of all, you haven't thought everything through. If God knew in advance that he creates a poison ( knowledge) that he puts an imaginery "sinful" stamp on, then made man inherantly crave knowledge, that man wouldn't fall for a "temptation", by being created 1st and foremost TEMPTABLE. YHWH is ridiculously crazed.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow-Scapegoating is a practice where ancients ( some do it today) put their sin upon a goat, & then drive the goat off into the desert with no food or water, so that it dies. When the goat dies, the sin dies with the goat. Sounds fair? So, your God is actually using his human subjects and is scapegoating them. He puts the sins on the people, & the people die. He gets to continue living scott free, even when He's responsible for sin existing. I'm glad biblical god is most likely fake.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus scapegoating was a foreshadowing of what Christ did on the cross. He took the penalty for man's sin on Himself on the cross. Christ became our scapegoat for us. Our sins were placed on Him on the cross. Fair? I'm glad God doesn't give us what we deserve. If you don't want to accept what He did that's your choice.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - Huh? God the father tells his son that He needs his human sacrifice in order to be appeased with His own creation...to have a better relationship with mankind. What did the Son present the Father with so this transaction was complete? Perfect human blood. Yep. God makes a big deal till he accepts as payment the very thing He creates out of thin air!!! Amazing! It makes no sense. Why can't God freely forgive, or is that too hard for Him? Seems so.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus The wages of sin are death, yes, not b/c God needs to punish us. we have spent our history murdering one another. He grants us the freedom to love, without which love is impossible. His respect for that freedom means that he hands us over to the consequences of our own actions. He lets us punish ourselves. The Father doesn’t punish the Son for sin. He sends the Son to bear the burden of sin that we are already inflicting on each other.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow "The wages of sin are death". Even your bible disagrees with this. Read Gen 3:22
When Jesus asked for the cup to be removed from him, what did he imply? Are you saying that even if Jesus didn't decide to go through with it, God would have acted as if Jesus didn't sin? Please explain how Jesus wouldn't have commited sin if this happened.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus adultery may seem exciting at 1st but as Proverbs warns, "Drink water from your own cistern, running waters from your own well. Should your springs overflow in the streets, your streams of water in the public squares? Let them be yours alone, never to be shared w/ strangers. May your fountain be blessed & may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. . .why be captivated, my son, by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife?
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow- Proverbs is a book of wise sayings. That's what proverb means. There are even ancient Chinese proverbs. Wisdom denotes observance. It's why an Adam or Eve couldn't possibly be wise. For who could they observe make mistakes or triumphs? That's why they HAD to be inexperienced to say the least...& wise God sees fit to pin our lives on their actions? Please.
Adultery happened waaay before Proverbs was a thought, so Proverbs is just someone writing observances. Doesn't mean it's from god.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlusIt's not just Proverbs, it's I Thess. 4:3-8, Hebrews 13:4, I Corinthians 6:13, 18, 20. It's not just adultery, the bible warns against so many things b/c God knows the destruction it can lead when man chooses otherwise--pride, lying, false witness, bitterness, rage, anger, brawling, slander, malice, murder, etc. Man ignores God's commands, does whatever is right in his own eyes, then when something terrible happens, wring their hands & wonder why & the candlelight vigils continue
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - There were already other civilizations before the bible writers. You have vast religious works from Eygypt and Babylon ( sumer) waaay before the bible was even a thought. The bible, no matter what verse you pick, only has words that resulted from an observance. Laws existed way before 10 commandments. Men wrote the bible, and it's not hard to see.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@RODikUlus mankind can't keep his own laws, let alone God's. 10 Commandments aren't just a bunch of dos/don'ts. They point out our sin, place responsiblity for it on us but offers no remedy. law helps people see their sinfulness, to show them the seriousness of their offenses against a holy, perfect God. That's why we need Christ. w/ all our knowledge, technology w/ man being supposedly inherently good, we should've been able to create utopia by now but can't b/c we're fighting so much
dmcbow 5 months ago
@RODikUlus (cont)For a man's ways are in full view of the Lord, & He examines all his paths. The evil deeds of a wicked man ensnare him; the cords of his sin hold him fast. He will die for lack of discipline, led astray by his own great folly. "Can a man scoop fire into his lap w/o his clothes being burned? Can a man walk on hot coals w/o his feet being scorched? So is he who sleeps w/ another man's wife; no one who touches her will go unpunished.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@RODikUlus Proverbs "But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. Blows & disgrace are his lot and his shame will never be wiped away for jealousy arouses a husband's fury, and he will show no mercy when he takes revenge." These verses are a strong warning against adultery. I know 1st hand about how adultery destroys. My brother's wife cheated on him-destroyed their marriage. It may have seemed exciting to her at 1st, but became nothing but misery.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@RODikUlus Why doesn't man listen well to other men? James 4-"What is the source of the wars/fights among you? Don't they come from the cravings that are at war within you? You desire & don't have. You murder & covet & can't obtain. You fight & war. You do not have b/c you do not ask. You ask & don't receive b/c you ask wrongly, so that you may spend it on your desires for pleasure." More knowledge/technology available to man than ever before & never has he lacked so much wisdom.
dmcbow 5 months ago
@dmcbow - The elite rulers figured out how to rule the masses easier early on. Make them believe that religion is in touch with the entity that created us. Once they believe that, they're easier to control. What could mankind do to show that they have wisdom?
The source of war is someone has something another wants. Another reason would be why God forced Israel to war with other nations...namely, because they wanted to incorportate it's religion and thinking over more territory.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow - Then create all the choices your children can take, and make sure to throw in their choices that seem nice, and some that will instantly kill them. Would you bring a guillatene, or a gun into existance, if you KNEW your children ( who you are supposed to love) would curiously try out that new and interesting contraption?
God put a tree of knowledge within easy reach, made it desirable, makes it sinful, knowing all along Adam & Eve will take it. Why didn't decendents get tree of life?
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow - "To deny man's free will means that all real choices only belong to God-" So, where is the choice that man has within free will to sin, and live forever? If that's not a choice, then the only real choice does belong to God.
Where is the choice for man to rule themselves independent of ANY good, or evil invisible creature pulling the strings on all our affairs? If it were free will, then you'd never say you were born a sinner, because you'd never choose to start a race disadvantaged.
RODikUlus 5 months ago
@dmcbow- "all are sinners", & "everyone has freewill" don't go hand in hand. If you had freewill, would you actally choose to be a sinner, and choose death?
Having freewill would mean you'rer free to choose at all times. Being born a sinner, and the teaching that it's out of your control fits anything but "freewill".
Christopher Hitchens- How free is freewill? ANS- It's so free, you don't have a choice. You HAVE to have it.
The sarcasm hits home for me.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus God gave us true freedom by surrendering a degree of his own power over to us. We cannot be real creatures capable of true love, true goodness, true evil without free agency. If we do not have free will life loses all true meaning & value. We are free to choose good or bad, free to love or hate. Why doesn't God jump in & stop bad things before they happen? It would be violating our freedom & making us choose whatever God wanted rather than letting us choose on our own.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow - You as a mom can't display real love to your children, without the possibility of also being able to "dash them against the rocks"? "Why doesn't God jump in & stop bad things before they happen?" He did alot of that in the bible. Remember the Tower of Babel- what truly bad thing did biblical God stop in that instance? Sodom & Gom..what did he stop there? Nothing!! Also, when you see biblical God "hardening" a person's heart, how much of this freewill is actually up to the individual?
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus @dmcbow- I think that's interesting. Would you be able to display real love to your children, if killing them, or neglecting them wasn't an possible option? I do understand your point though. But that point only touches on the value of the action by the one percieving the action. However it still would amount to true love being displayed. How could you equate it to anything other than true love? In order to solidify your stance, please explain how it's not true love.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@dmcbow - You stated that God would be violating our freewill/freedom. I do know that in the bible, God "hardened" Pharoahs heart for His benefit. Also, when the disciples were asking Jesus about the blind man, Jesus said that man was born blind so the glory of God can be shown--never mind the part of them asking if his blindness being the result of something he did before being born ( a biblical hint to the belief in reincarnation). If that man could choose to blind or not,he'd choose not.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@dmcbow - Occam's Razor is no longer valid. The main flaw in the equation is overlooked. You're assuming that you have the right God. Not having the right God is the reason for the probabilty anyway. Let's not forget that. What if you die, and found out the Mormons were right all along? Or what if Allah doesn't appreciate you ignoring Islam for your entire earthly life? Hindusim...I can go on and on here. But you should start seeing that the probability isn't 50/50 in your favor anymore.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus @dmcbow- The more "jealous" God's there are who could turn out to be true, the more your chances drop. But not mine. My probability still stands at 50%. Your chances of being correct keep falling. What a waste it would be to spend your entire human life ( the one you KNOW you have) on a belief that has an ever increasing chance of you being wrong.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus But you don't think you have to have it, you don't want it, you reject it, that's your choice. Many think that if God put us here on earth /created world for us to live in, then it makes sense that the greatest good is our immediate sense of personal pleasure/satisfaction. If there is some circumstance in which we can't have immediate satisfaction, then God must not exist, abandoned us, or be evil for allowing such a thing. To acknowledge God as good He must give liberty to all
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow - You don't have freewill. It's purely a doctrine. If frewill were true, why do you reject the logic that you should be able to choose even being tested in the 1st place? If that in itself is one choice we can't make, then how free is it if we can't make the biggest choice of all?
Your argument sounds like you've assumed correctly that credit goes to your God for all life existing. You only have a strong feeling that you may be right. It's why you bring up Occam"s Razor. It's not 50/50
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@dmcbow - You don't even believe this, as you actually feel I'm using my frewill ( or my try) to make what is in your opinion a wrong choice. It's just a choice. If your God was real, & had all the powers you believe he does, then it's intellectually dishonest to ignore that He also is the designer of the right path, and the wrong one.
Like I asked, ( according to your belief), can I eat a food your God never created? You asked what food. I said rice. Can I eat rice if God never created it?
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus (cont) our passions? And if He doesn't--if He doesn't allow us what we want, when we want it. if He ever asks for self sacrifice, in He ever allows a condition in which we hurt, in which we suffer, in which we experience inconvience, if He ever allows a circumstance in which our bodily desires aren't given full reing, He must be a cruel God. We think life is all about pleasure/our happiness. Our personal happiness, pleasure, enjoyment are the most important things in life.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow - At the end of the day, it's your God that looks selfish. When the Israelites were in the desert for 40 yrs ( unlikely) why would a God who knows they're going to respond in such a way, actually get angry with them. We are biological creatures that find punishment in an enviroment our bodies were never designed for as being very irritatable. Why didn't God become a human & walk in the desert so he can suffer, and show empathy? Nope- He'd rather do some throne-sitting.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@dmcbow - A dog has the innate desire to be hungry, and thirsty. If I created dogs, I would know this, & then see fit to make sure the dog is provided for. If I didn't like the idea of a dog being able to pee on valuable things, then I would make it so it can't do that. Mankind has the desire to want more knowledge, & more life. If God didn't want us to want to know what He knows, then He wouldn't put a tree of knowledge within grasp, & furthermore kill our desires to want to learn. Simple
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@dmcbow-Here's a tangent. I saw a rainbow today. Got to thinking about the biblical reason for them to exist. After Noah's Flood, YHWH said He'll put a rainbow there to remind everyone of His promise that He won't ever flood the earth again. OK. Can you tell me why a rainbow NEVER comes out after a torrential downpour at NIGHT?
The more you look at this, & other things, you start to see the bible is fairytales. Remember, it was written at a time when myth & folklore were common.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus Study Bible prophecy--not a fairytale. "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling ... I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. (Zechariah 12:2, 3) Why is the Israel/Arab conflict now the UN's #1 problem? Bible predicted Jew would be scattered throughout the world then become a nation again--happened in May, 1948, along w/ other signs happening at same time, not just Israel.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow - I must look into this info on Israel that you believe. I must say that I don't know too much on this subject, but I still doubt that being a prophesy, as a prophesy would say exactly when it is to occur.
Are you saying that Jews were scattered around the world, and after May 1948 that Jews weren't scattered around the world anymore?
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus Prophecy is simply history written in advance. Doesn't have to set dates. No nation in history has been able to maintain its national identity after being uprooted from its homeland for more than 300 yrs, let alone 2000. The fact that 6 millions Jews are living in Israel now is a testimony to the faithfulness of God who always keeps His word. He promised so many times to regather the nation back to their homeland that if He had failed to do so, He would've been proven unfaithful
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow _Where do you get your unbiased info regarding Israel? Since I don't know much about Israel's fulfillment of anything within "the last days". Show me a good place to start-make sure it's unbiased. Thanks n advance.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus In Genesis 17:1-8 God made a covenant with Abraham an unconditional one, that He is going to keep as an" everlasting covenant." The papacy bought into replacement theology-Jews rejected Christ so God was done with them & the church became the spiritual Israel & not a very good one at that b/c over the yrs. the church became a corrupt religious state using the Jews rejection of Christ as an excuse to persecute the Jews, as did others (Deut. 28:65-67) but God isn't done with Israel
dmcbow 6 months ago
@RODikUlus Isaiah 66:22-"As the new heavens & the new earth that I make will endure before me," declares the Lord, "so will your name & descendants endure." The Jews would survive as a people despite the Assyrians almost wiping out 10 of the 12 tribes, the Babylonians, the Romans, the papacy, The nazis sought to annihilate the Jewishs race, the Nazi empire reduced to ashes shortly b/f Jews reclaimed Israel, Jews are still here every empire that wanted to destroy them are pages in history books
dmcbow 6 months ago
@RODikUlus Psalms 83-"See how Your enemies have acted arrogantly. They devise clever schemes against your people, they conspire against Your treasured ones. They say, "Come, let us wipe them out as a nation so that Israel's name will no longer be remembered. For they have conspired w/ 1 mind, they form an alliance against You-the tents of Edom, the Ishmaelites, Moab, the Hagrites, Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek, Philistia w/ the inhabitants of Tyre, even Assyria has joined them; they lend support
dmcbow 6 months ago
@RODikUlus (cont)to the sons of Lot." The descendents of these now Muslim nations hate Israel, they are NOT interested in peace. They want to wipe Israel off the face of the map--that's their ultimate goal. Keep an eye on Israel. They are completely surrounded by their enemies. Israel is the apple of God's eye. He won't let that happen. It's going to get interesting in the coming years with Israel.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow - Much of the bible is heresay. Especially the Gospels. Ask yourself if Jesus ever wrote anything, & why. The reason why Jesus didn't write anything, or why his body was "taken away" shows that the most powerful evidence was never there to begin with. If it was, then why would God remove the evidence?
Just like a magican, the Christian faith gets you to keep your eye on what they want you to see, & ignore the obvious. Christianity is out of a job if they don't redirect your eye.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlus Would 12 men be persecuted, beaten, stoned, jailed, exiled & die for hearsay? who in their right mind would die for hearsay? They didn't think it would earn them a spot in heaven like the 9/11 hijackers.They died to just spread the good news of Christ , 2 Cor. 5:7-We walk by faith not by sight. 2 Cor. 4:18-So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal." The things of this world are passing away.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@dmcbow - Sure 12 men could die for something that made no sense. Many cults today show testiment to this weakness of those members of mankind that need something to believe in. If they were real, they died because they were killed in 1 way or another. Yes, hearsay. A careful comparision of the gospels show they don't even agree with one another. Even later, Paul gives evidence that he was lying about his meeting of supernatural Christ on the road to Damascus.
RODikUlus 6 months ago
@RODikUlusBible prophecy-- Is Israel a nation again (after being scattered for thousands of yrs, why weren't they absorbed into the cultures to which they were scattered?) , while world moving towards 1-world govt, while natural disasters increase, while violence increases, while there's a great increase in knowledge/modes of transporation, while israel is able to make the desert bloom/fill world with fruit, prosperity for israel/prevail over enemies although severely outnumbered.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@RODikUlus There are many prophecies about Israel alone: Israel was to be born in a day Isaiah 66:7-8-B/f she goes into labor, she gives birth; b/f the pain comes upon her she delivers a son. Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor that she gives birth to her children." May 1948-in a 24 hr span foreign control of Israel ceased & Israel declared independence.
dmcbow 6 months ago
@RODikUlus Joel 3:2 (written about 400 BC)-"I will gather all nations & bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel, for THEY SCATTERED MY PEOPLE AMONG THE NATIONS & DIVIDED (PARTED) UP MY LAND). Israel has already been forced to give up land they had --the Gaza strip (land for "peace") and nations are pressing Israel now for a two state solution to the conflict b/w Isaac & Ishmael's descendants.
dmcbow 6 months ago