Yes, you are entitled to believe that Santa Claus exists and that this Congress and administration will
continue to enact sensible legislation that will have no I'll effects on our prosperity and that of our childrens... It doesn't make you evil..,.. In fact, you seem pretty civil for a Moonbat. Just remember who you voted for when bad things happen.
Hey you're the one that brought it up. And if you think you're going to get cleaner water and air from this worthless legislation you either haven't done you're homework or are a complete moonbat. Goodbye.
We are all entitled to our own beliefs in this country. You seem to have a different belief than I do, so be it. If you feel you've done a good job at examining this legislation and it's consequences, than good for you. I think I have as well. We happen to disagree..that's ok too.
Uh yeah there is. Scientists are all over the map on this and there is no consensus except amongst liberal politicians who want to micromanage peoples life styles, etc and the "climate experts" who's funds will dry up if they don't continue to spin the data to support their specious claims.
I'm not here to convince you of climate change, believe it or not, it's up to you and you can believe what you want about what is causing it, makes no never mind to me.
The "cap" part of this bill is ok with me. I like breathing cleaner air and drinking cleaner water but that's up to you as well.
So you have a problem w the trade part huh? How else is Al Gore gonna get to be a billiionaire? And you should have a problem with the entire concept of govt. regulating CO. It's being done in the name of global warming prevention & last time I checked, it's been getting cooler for years... oh yea, now its climate change.. Bunch of crap. Sun cycles, gets hotter, gets cooler just like on Mars and Venus where our SUV's aren't.
Hey, even Al Gore has a right to make money, just like Goldman Sachs, it's capitalism after all. I don't like the bubble this legislation will cause. Not the fact that someone is going to make money.
As for climate change, you can't judge your little corner of the world as a true example, it's Global. What is causing it might be debated but it's happening, no doubt.
You make good sense girl! I wish more understood whats going on! I can go across my street and ask the lady about cap and trade and she'd think I was talking about a business offer in trading ball caps!
Yep, your right..Goldman Sachs. There's a great piece in Rolling Stones about how Sachs has been behind every bubble and what their part is in this one. I'll see if I can find a link and post it.
You blame the market but the market brought you the glasses on your face the refrigerator and dishsoap in your kitchen..at a pretty good price to. The government brought you the bubbles. with the Fed, fannie mae, freddie mac,...high health care cost v...medicare, medicaid only paying out at most 30cents on the dollar...driving up cost for non medicare people. freemarkets work...the shame is we havent had one for about 90years. this cap-trade is just another slap in the face...yet its 4 our good.
Free Market to me is just another word for NO watch dog on our most greedy and crooked people of our society. Free Markets brought us monopolies, wall st crooks, child labor, and a host of other ills that took decades to right. If, as you have suggested, we haven't seen a Free Market in 90 yrs, take a good look at 1919 a real good look and tell me that was a rip roaring time for all Americans.
greed happens in the sandbox as kids its human nature just like sloth or envy. as for "crooked people" we have laws aginst fraud ie Madoff goes to jail. and Monopolies are brought to you by the government....the electric company you have and 1st class mail of the US postal service to name a couple. do you compline about the freemarket while standing in your local grocery market with everything under sun avalibel to you from all over the world to take home and eat?
In your utopia of "Free Markets" Madoff wouldn't have gone to jail. GE and Ma Bell were a Monopolies. And the postal service is a government service, that works for every American the same way. What other service will come to your home, pick up and deliver communications, all for 48 cents?" FED-X?
The Postal Service has incurred net losses from operations in 10 of the last 11 fiscal quarters. The year-to-date net loss is $2.3 billion. So that 48cents doesn't even cover the cost of postage. Another GOV monopolie is Amtrak. It operations at a lose of 1000 million a year, year after year.
You can't point out the failure of the Post Office without taking into account the crisis we're in now and the advent of email in the last 10 years or more. I have no idea about Amtrak, seems to me it was a looser before the Gov got involved and if what you say is true, it's still a looser.
10 of the last 11 fiscal quarters is 2 and a half years. The bottom fell though the floor in Nov, thats 2quaters ago. And yes Amtrak was a looser befor the Gov take over/ socialized it. If they had let it go bankrupt, as freemarkets work, those assets would have been bought up and used in cost effective means..ie not a burden on tax payers. by the way I made 3 post on here. I know sometimes they dont show up in the commit box of the splash page.
Free Markets are not a utopia for the simple reason that utopias don't exist. but freemarkets provide the best quality and price of any item. so long as it is a true freemarket. Gov interferance squews this delivery of quality and cost. But a gov that operates as intended enforces law. Such as fraud. When a gov does its job Madoff goes to jail....and G.W. Bush is/would be impeached.
dont get me wrong I long for the day of Solar energy, elecrtic cars, and alge bio fuel. but Government suites arnt smart enoght to pick and chose the most cost effecttive product or service. remeber the corn ethanol boondogal? Solar enegry, to be cost effective, has to be about 4$per watt (factoryfloor to home roof top) befor it can replace coal. freemarkets is the only place were a man tinkering in his garage can compete with GE for his better working mouse trap.
Bernie Madoff, Stanford and Enron are examples of the failure of your precious SEC oversight, NOT the failure of free and open markets. China probably has more open markets than the U.S. does right now. The problem with oversight is that it'll never be good enough. If you leave it up to the free market, there's NO WAY Bernie Maddoff would have happened because companies involved with him would have investigated him instead of relying on the government.
I don't know what your points are Whippoorwillas and FatLibertarian. We have regulations and watch dog organizations that failed to act on information when all the above crooks were found out..isn't that "Free Markets"..no regulations, no watch dogs? Las a fare markets?
In fact, rockets were being fired off over this recent bubble and crisis, yet again, no action taken by the watch dogs. Seems to me we have all been eaten alive by Free Markets.
So, when these (non-free-market) watchdogs fail, you see that as a failure of FREE MARKET principles? That's, uh.. interesting. These market police inevitably lead to a false sense of security and false trust that ALL THESE companies are on the up and up. Whatever the reason, the regulators can't replace the true free market when it's allowed to be a regulator. That's my point. Have a good 4th of July weekend. The DOW is plummeting again today.
Yep! Another bubble in the making. The bill tells you that the credits will continue to increase in value over time because the allowable CO2 standards will tighten over time. Plus, the bill says that the credits will be auctioned, driving the value up, so long as the supply is low.
This Cap and Trade bill is our version of the smoot-hawley act of the 1930's which seriously pro longed the depression. You people trust government too much. Who is, you people? Those who voted for Obama.
"And the banks -- hard to believe in a time when we're facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created -- are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place."
If Obama was sincere about capping co2 he could simply put a direct tax on carbon out put, plane and simple.
This legislation was written by corporations, for corporations and you think you won't have to pay?
Most utilities have to go before a state commission for rate hike approval. If they can raise your rates excessively without an excuse as you say, what kind of rate increases do you think they'll be able to get when they have an excuse?
Individually, we will pay more for energy but the bigger picture is our future economy and the bubble they are creating with the trading of credits on the open market.
Yes, you are entitled to believe that Santa Claus exists and that this Congress and administration will
continue to enact sensible legislation that will have no I'll effects on our prosperity and that of our childrens... It doesn't make you evil..,.. In fact, you seem pretty civil for a Moonbat. Just remember who you voted for when bad things happen.
FXMAHO 2 years ago
Hey you're the one that brought it up. And if you think you're going to get cleaner water and air from this worthless legislation you either haven't done you're homework or are a complete moonbat. Goodbye.
FXMAHO 2 years ago
We are all entitled to our own beliefs in this country. You seem to have a different belief than I do, so be it. If you feel you've done a good job at examining this legislation and it's consequences, than good for you. I think I have as well. We happen to disagree..that's ok too.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
"Climate change is happening, no doubt"
Uh yeah there is. Scientists are all over the map on this and there is no consensus except amongst liberal politicians who want to micromanage peoples life styles, etc and the "climate experts" who's funds will dry up if they don't continue to spin the data to support their specious claims.
FXMAHO 2 years ago
I'm not here to convince you of climate change, believe it or not, it's up to you and you can believe what you want about what is causing it, makes no never mind to me.
The "cap" part of this bill is ok with me. I like breathing cleaner air and drinking cleaner water but that's up to you as well.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
So you have a problem w the trade part huh? How else is Al Gore gonna get to be a billiionaire? And you should have a problem with the entire concept of govt. regulating CO. It's being done in the name of global warming prevention & last time I checked, it's been getting cooler for years... oh yea, now its climate change.. Bunch of crap. Sun cycles, gets hotter, gets cooler just like on Mars and Venus where our SUV's aren't.
FXMAHO 2 years ago
Hey, even Al Gore has a right to make money, just like Goldman Sachs, it's capitalism after all. I don't like the bubble this legislation will cause. Not the fact that someone is going to make money.
As for climate change, you can't judge your little corner of the world as a true example, it's Global. What is causing it might be debated but it's happening, no doubt.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
You make good sense girl! I wish more understood whats going on! I can go across my street and ask the lady about cap and trade and she'd think I was talking about a business offer in trading ball caps!
Mike
Mike
WhyMeWhySilver 2 years ago
Guess which bank will be the first amongst first well its just gotta be Goldman Sachs.
justjacqueline2004 2 years ago
Yep, your right..Goldman Sachs. There's a great piece in Rolling Stones about how Sachs has been behind every bubble and what their part is in this one. I'll see if I can find a link and post it.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
You blame the market but the market brought you the glasses on your face the refrigerator and dishsoap in your kitchen..at a pretty good price to. The government brought you the bubbles. with the Fed, fannie mae, freddie mac,...high health care cost v...medicare, medicaid only paying out at most 30cents on the dollar...driving up cost for non medicare people. freemarkets work...the shame is we havent had one for about 90years. this cap-trade is just another slap in the face...yet its 4 our good.
whippoorwillss 2 years ago
Free Market to me is just another word for NO watch dog on our most greedy and crooked people of our society. Free Markets brought us monopolies, wall st crooks, child labor, and a host of other ills that took decades to right. If, as you have suggested, we haven't seen a Free Market in 90 yrs, take a good look at 1919 a real good look and tell me that was a rip roaring time for all Americans.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
greed happens in the sandbox as kids its human nature just like sloth or envy. as for "crooked people" we have laws aginst fraud ie Madoff goes to jail. and Monopolies are brought to you by the government....the electric company you have and 1st class mail of the US postal service to name a couple. do you compline about the freemarket while standing in your local grocery market with everything under sun avalibel to you from all over the world to take home and eat?
whippoorwillss 2 years ago
In your utopia of "Free Markets" Madoff wouldn't have gone to jail. GE and Ma Bell were a Monopolies. And the postal service is a government service, that works for every American the same way. What other service will come to your home, pick up and deliver communications, all for 48 cents?" FED-X?
Boomer1949 2 years ago
The Postal Service has incurred net losses from operations in 10 of the last 11 fiscal quarters. The year-to-date net loss is $2.3 billion. So that 48cents doesn't even cover the cost of postage. Another GOV monopolie is Amtrak. It operations at a lose of 1000 million a year, year after year.
whippoorwillss 2 years ago
You can't point out the failure of the Post Office without taking into account the crisis we're in now and the advent of email in the last 10 years or more. I have no idea about Amtrak, seems to me it was a looser before the Gov got involved and if what you say is true, it's still a looser.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
10 of the last 11 fiscal quarters is 2 and a half years. The bottom fell though the floor in Nov, thats 2quaters ago. And yes Amtrak was a looser befor the Gov take over/ socialized it. If they had let it go bankrupt, as freemarkets work, those assets would have been bought up and used in cost effective means..ie not a burden on tax payers. by the way I made 3 post on here. I know sometimes they dont show up in the commit box of the splash page.
whippoorwillss 2 years ago
Free Markets are not a utopia for the simple reason that utopias don't exist. but freemarkets provide the best quality and price of any item. so long as it is a true freemarket. Gov interferance squews this delivery of quality and cost. But a gov that operates as intended enforces law. Such as fraud. When a gov does its job Madoff goes to jail....and G.W. Bush is/would be impeached.
whippoorwillss 2 years ago
dont get me wrong I long for the day of Solar energy, elecrtic cars, and alge bio fuel. but Government suites arnt smart enoght to pick and chose the most cost effecttive product or service. remeber the corn ethanol boondogal? Solar enegry, to be cost effective, has to be about 4$per watt (factoryfloor to home roof top) befor it can replace coal. freemarkets is the only place were a man tinkering in his garage can compete with GE for his better working mouse trap.
whippoorwillss 2 years ago
Bernie Madoff, Stanford and Enron are examples of the failure of your precious SEC oversight, NOT the failure of free and open markets. China probably has more open markets than the U.S. does right now. The problem with oversight is that it'll never be good enough. If you leave it up to the free market, there's NO WAY Bernie Maddoff would have happened because companies involved with him would have investigated him instead of relying on the government.
FatLibertarian 2 years ago
I don't know what your points are Whippoorwillas and FatLibertarian. We have regulations and watch dog organizations that failed to act on information when all the above crooks were found out..isn't that "Free Markets"..no regulations, no watch dogs? Las a fare markets?
In fact, rockets were being fired off over this recent bubble and crisis, yet again, no action taken by the watch dogs. Seems to me we have all been eaten alive by Free Markets.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
So, when these (non-free-market) watchdogs fail, you see that as a failure of FREE MARKET principles? That's, uh.. interesting. These market police inevitably lead to a false sense of security and false trust that ALL THESE companies are on the up and up. Whatever the reason, the regulators can't replace the true free market when it's allowed to be a regulator. That's my point. Have a good 4th of July weekend. The DOW is plummeting again today.
FatLibertarian 2 years ago
Personally, I think the market has been "free" to regulate themselves, as has the banks and investment banks. No one else was doing it.
You have a great 4th too! I have 4 days off due to the slow down in work but I'm not complaining, I haven't been laid off, so it's still good.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
How about when the idiots start playing with derivatives like options, futures, insurance and other crap that is sure to get top heavy?
j0hnwi11iams 2 years ago
Yep! Another bubble in the making. The bill tells you that the credits will continue to increase in value over time because the allowable CO2 standards will tighten over time. Plus, the bill says that the credits will be auctioned, driving the value up, so long as the supply is low.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
Boomer:
Do you know when this Bill goes to the Senate?
BaltimoreSandra 2 years ago
They're saying sometime after the July 4th break. So I expect it to hit the floor, without revision, the second or third week of July.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
This Cap and Trade bill is our version of the smoot-hawley act of the 1930's which seriously pro longed the depression. You people trust government too much. Who is, you people? Those who voted for Obama.
FatLibertarian 2 years ago
remember what dick durban said 2 monthes ago?
"And the banks -- hard to believe in a time when we're facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created -- are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place."
mopme2008 2 years ago
If Obama was sincere about capping co2 he could simply put a direct tax on carbon out put, plane and simple.
This legislation was written by corporations, for corporations and you think you won't have to pay?
Most utilities have to go before a state commission for rate hike approval. If they can raise your rates excessively without an excuse as you say, what kind of rate increases do you think they'll be able to get when they have an excuse?
gsuitter 2 years ago
Individually, we will pay more for energy but the bigger picture is our future economy and the bubble they are creating with the trading of credits on the open market.
Boomer1949 2 years ago