EPIC FAIL: Ujames1978 on Determinism & Justice

[TheNarcMan]

@InvincibleNumanist

There's some potential to that kind of justice you mention. Determinism/free will aside we're starting to have this discussion anyway. Science is now closer than ever to understanding what makes a sociopath who & what they are & that to some significant extent they can't help who/what they are. So should they go unpunished for committing crimes UJames? Fuck no! What an idiot. We still need to respond appropriately to the profound illusion of free will not just sit down & quit

[TheNarcMan]

Goddammit! How am I supposed to focus with an epic battle playing out?

[ForYeensSake]

This is made out of win and it's not because I think Ujames is an idiot, Its because I love the way you think and were able to spell it all out. You are one of the first people I've seen that can call people an idiot and doesn't sound arrogant ;o It's epic!

[InvincibleNumanist]

@ForYeensSake

I like compliments.

and I hate Ujames.

lets be friends

[atticana]

'Oh Lord, I know that man's way is not his own; It is not in man to direct his steps as he walketh.' (Jeremiah 10.23)

[superhamzah85]

If a snail was going to lean slightly to the left or slightly to the right - is that determined? Or is the mere movement determined, the direction irrelevant.

Perhaps we regard our will in this universe far too highly than it deserves to be.

[InvincibleNumanist]

@superhamzah85

well snails react almost entirely to stimuli, they dont appear to have the same cognitive capacities as human beings, so the determinacy of their behaviour seems far easier to accept than human beings. would anyone really argue that a snail has free will?

[superhamzah85]

@InvincibleNumanist

Let's put consciousness on a spectrum, on a scale of 1 to 100 - imagine a snail is at 2, and we are at 12.

If the number can go to 100, then we might as well be snails. Our free will and our philosophy might look cute and quaint to hypothetical alien beings. Or we might be at 100. We just don't know yet whether we are esteemed as our egos like to reassure us, or whether we are just blithering primates doing an advanced form of chest beating.

[superhamzah85]

Would be funny if in Minority Report Tom Cruise leaps into a stage production of Hamlet, then apologizes.

[superhamzah85]

I abandoned philosophy a couple of years ago because I began to think it was more to do with language than reality. I'm just going with the science now...which I suspect would decree both determinism and unpredictability depending on context, I'm fine with that. -_-

[MistressArte]

I don't like to think that I'm controlled by my genes and my brain and the environment that I'm in interacting with them. However people are made up of stuff and that stuff has influence over everything that we are like it or not. If there is something that transcends our material then that thing whatever it is is the soul. You'd have to prove the soul existed which I can not do. Just because people can't see the variables that caused the cause doesn't mean they don't exist.

[MistressArte]

I'm a neurobiology minor and the more and more I understood about the brain the more you see that it matters 100% if any bit gets damaged it causes changes because the material isn't the same thing. I know criminal justice too and on that level fail again because you can get changed with a crime for an act of omission, so it doesn't matter at all that you didn't act to be malicious you could have just forgot but if it's your job to remember that becomes a crime. (i.e not feeding your kids.)

[Hyardacil]

You saved me from a burning desire to make my first video saying pretty much the same things to this idiot.

[SatiricalStewie]

great video

[Eopyk]

Extremly good response Numan. You hit the mark on adressing James ignorant claims in this topic.

[Knr911]

It was so embarassing to hear James talk about this, he is so wrong on so many levels and blatantly ignorant. And fucking irritating. I wanted to respond but I didn't even know where to begin. Great rebuttal you made.

[ToothpickMcBrainy]

*detailed rant on philosophy*

*DBZ game footage*

Wow internet, what's next in your juxtaposition conga line, cute kittens and Darfur?

[InvincibleNumanist]

@ToothpickMcBrainy

youve predicted what my next video is

[MirageScience]

I'm an atheist and a determinists and while I don't hope for the existance of a god as I would see it as some grand dictatorship (I'm ancap u may know) I feel as you say some determinists feel and that is that I wish we had some type of free will, but not some randomness type but a f ree will where I cause my actions and the cause of the cause off into an infinite regress, that would be swell, DNA and genetics sucks balls wich we never knew about them sometimes.

[oliverscott2007]

That was excellent.

[HeavyTrafficAhead]

I'm not an Anti-theist because I secretly wish there was a god. I just don't care or see religious belief as the bogey man of civilization, which ATs such as BionicDance promote. I think people should determine for themselves what they believe and as long as they don't assault secular government they're welcome to it

[insightnew]

Tails are awesome weapons! 

[Ramiromasters]

Good except maybe for "Justice": Since there is no empirical good or bad, can you really do justice?

I think we can take "revenge" for something we feel bad about, and scare others that way. But probably the best approach would be to see what conditions created that mentality, and prevent those conditions for other people.

Punishment has been around for long, but I think we inherited our punish system from the Roman Catholic church more than any other source, and we all know their mentality...

[InvincibleNumanist]

@Ramiromasters

True, neither Ujames nor I believe in objective morality. but there doesnt need to be objective morality for there to be an intersubjective consensus of what is good/bad/acceptable etc.

[GompCelticPL]

I don't understand why would free will and causality be exclusive. Imo although the events around us form our characters, we still have a choice. Although the world determines the person in such a way that he'll choose X over Y the choice is made by him therefore it is his. Another thing I don't get is why this guy got so pissed off, called determinists scum etc. To me existence of a Free Will is of no importance, what I care about is solely My Will no matter the way it comes to be.

[TheNakedAtheist]

@GompCelticPL

I think, and I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, that that is essentially what compatibilism amounts to. Your free to make a choice, but that choice is based on your programming. To me it seems like determinism, but with more emphasis on the idea that things are predictable rather than predestined.

[GompCelticPL]

Uhh determinism and shit that's really great and all but what I really wonder is what's that game?

[InvincibleNumanist]

@GompCelticPL

Dragonball Z: Raging blast 2

[iremythpurr]

You don't see the fall of capitalism happening anytime soon? Dude, where are the resources? They've nearly all been exploited and we're gonna run into an energy crisis in our lifetimes. Shits gonna be heavy.

[InvincibleNumanist]

@iremythpurr

Something could happen soon that revives it for all we know. Take SOPA for example, this is an attempt to create more artificial scarcity to and maintain monopoly status for much of the upper classes. Little things like this can easily prolong it.

[ToothpickMcBrainy]

@InvincibleNumanist You can't legislate oil, or a new, enormous infrastructure that uses non-oil energy.

[Visfen]

@iremythpurr No, we're not gonna run out of stuff. That's silly. We have a price system that deals with that.

(Sorry, that had nothing to do with the video, but saying we will run out of stuff is ridiculous)

[iremythpurr]

I think some of these dudes who pontificate on youtube would do well to actually study philosophy a little bit so they can see just how inept their arguments are. I've always been struck by the double standard of how people present their debates and the lack of logical consistency.

[TheLaughingOut]

@iremythpurr ^_^ I love it when I agree with you.

[MensRifleAssociation]

determinism follows from materialism.

there is lots of empirical evidence that the mind is the brain.

my daily subjective experience tells me i make choices.

i don't buy compatibilism.

in a tug of war between empirical evidence and my daily subjective experience - I'll go with the latter.

what does non-materialistic freewill look like - dunno- i'm thinking unicorn magic.

[atticana]

Very interesting. Determinism has long been a major force in theology...St. Augustine, Mohammed, Calvin...in this respect at least InvincibleNumanist is on their side. Christianity is a religion very prone to determinism, because of the doctrine of Original Sin. And Mohammed essentially saw Allah as a 'celestial Sultan, a relentless autocrat, a deified Fate'. I want to assert free will, but my constant use of the phrase 'divine decree' rather undermines that notion.

[paradoarify]

so I guess being a compatibalist makes you a pig fucker and not a self righteous pig fucker.

[AmetReloads]

Yep ...muslim immigration will lead to the rise of neo-nationalists..

and capitalism will continuing experiencing small or big cycles of depression..and coughlin will cut him self again and again

[indignant99]

Kindly discontinue mispronouncing "EK CETERA," and say correctly "ET CETERA."

[InvincibleNumanist]

@indignant99

ive heard complaints of this before. and my answer if fuck you bitch ill say wat i want wot u gonna do about it faggot? yeah nuffink

[TheNakedAtheist]

@InvincibleNumanist

I agree, it's your right to sound like an uneducated moron, and fuck anyone who tries to give you any constructive criticism.

[InvincibleNumanist]

@TheNakedAtheist

lol, i was joking. hence the bad spelling all of a sudden

[Coughlan616]

I was actually gonna reference Minority Report in my response to James

[xXMetalMeltdownXx]

@InvincibleNumanist Misused quotation marks and ellipses... "For the win"

[InvincibleNumanist]

@xXMetalMeltdownXx

What would be the correct use? I cant use italics so quotation marks are the next best thing if I want to make some kind of bibliography or list of references.

[xXMetalMeltdownXx]

@InvincibleNumanist - I wasn't referencing anything that you said, calm your farm. I was talking about Ujames1978's video title. If it was anybody other than Ujames I probably wouldn't care. I hate Ujames. He is a sack of shit.

[InvincibleNumanist]

@xXMetalMeltdownXx

oh yeah lol, why has he put it in quotation marks if nobody has said it but him?

[SubstancePrime]

Having never watched a Ujames video before tonight. I must say, that was a rather dreadful experience.

[Afriboy10]

You should do all your video responses with DBZ fighting games. :)

[InvincibleNumanist]

@Afriboy10

I might just do it. I dont like being on camera much, but i think still images are boring. so yeah sure :)

[GiantKukri]

is that the one with Arale?

[InvincibleNumanist]

@GiantKukri

Not sure.. androids 13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 and Cell are unlockable I know that. If Arale is in it, I havent unlocked her.

[GiantKukri]

@InvincibleNumanist

one supposedly had arale in it as unlockable.

[29harveydinio]

Btw Vegeta is my fav DBZ character even though he gets owned in this clip lol.

[29harveydinio]

I watched his video and it was soooooooooo bad. He never says anything he just emotes a lot, like that is a replace for an argument. Just shout and scream "fascist", "bigot", "hypocrites" is nothing more than an ad-hom, because he doesn't actually have an argument. He is a clueless loud mouth.

I consider myself leaning more towards determinsm, but I would love to be argued out of it. And maybe as you said there can be a compatibility between both free will and determinism.

[fruitikay]

Saddest part of video: 5:14 :( 

[InvincibleNumanist]

@fruitikay

I know right?

I tried to base my fights on actual events in the series. So I was transforming Frieza in the order that he fought the people. And when Vegeta got pummelled and strangled by Frieza's 4th form I was horrified. He was such a badass but got owned so epically.

[ianmathwiz7]

@InvincibleNumanist In that case, why did you use that paralyzing light thingy against Vegeta? Frieza (or Freeza if you're a manga reader) didn't use that technique until he fought Goku. In fact, you use quite a few techniques anachronistically.

[InvincibleNumanist]

@ianmathwiz7

you are a faggot

[ianmathwiz7]

@InvincibleNumanist Nah, just a total DBZ nerd.

[TheNakedAtheist]

That video was so good you've not only forced me to subscribe, but also to make a note to look through your older video's.

[lovingsingleton]

@InvincibleNumanist

FUCK! I made a mistake!

[IndifferentSky]

All his vids are like that. Ok, I just did some induction, but... the ones I've seen, they hold this pattern. People like him if they agree with him and like when people yell vague things about pet topics, and basically slander people with no substance.

[InvincibleNumanist]

@IndifferentSky

yeah the sad truth is his admirers who also dont have a clue about the topic will just thumb up his video because he sounds articulate.

Stefan Molyneux said "To see the cage is to leave it". I disagree, because it depends who were in the cage with. Im looking at my inmates and I dont have much hope.

[lovingsingleton]

I can't believe coughlan has a high enough IQ to know what determinism.

-why does B follow A? That's a trippy question, dude.

[InvincibleNumanist]

@lovingsingleton

did i say B follows A? lol im an unorthodox logician, up there with Graham Priest.

[SkidRowRadio]

surely all our scientists, innovators and mathematicians are all at least functionally determinists, so hes really dissing all of human invention.

what a tool.

[DKshad0w]

Krillin getting the crap beat out of him again. Typical.

[InvincibleNumanist]

@DKshad0w

Lol Krillin actually beat me pretty badly when I played as Nappa. I had to shorten the footage so that it would fit, and most of what i cut was Krillin beating up Nappa. if you look carefullly, when you finally see Nappa finishing Krillin, his health is already down to his last life.