On your point about the Blasphemy law making Religion seem weak. If the law makes religion seem weak, that sounds like Blasphemy. Therefore, the Blasphemy law is Blasphemy and the legislature that created it should be fined by every Irish citizen.
Im Irish and I just wanted to tell you that it wasn't passed. It gos against free speech and moral laws so fuck god, fuck Jesus and fuck Kevin Gormely for trying to pass this law!
i enjoy that there is one dislike. and i enjoy that he has come up with more unbelievable points negating this law then i could have originally imagined. beautiful work.
i think some one should test this in a court ,by deliberately saying something like Mohammad was a pedophile on a radio show , then going to a Garda station and handing him or herself in ,any good lawyer would make a laughing stock of this whole nonsense
This is in Eire (Ireland), not northern Ireland. England has nothing to do with Eire, that's part of the European union and has been dictated to by the Catholic church for centuries. You want to point the blame, look to the Irish people themselves and the religious dogma they have chosen to follow.
bull shit!!! this guy is just giving his oppion on the subject. it wasnt him or his KIND who oppressed them for 400 years. it was the aristocracy who did this shamefull fuck!! so. my god listen to what he is thinking before you make up your mind about someone obvously having good intentions. what ever...
Same old shit, third world country with first world aspirations. Dermot Ahern is the very incarnate of Eamonn Devalera, the fledgling state's first president. Curiously he was an anglican! He had a deliberate and contrived ambition to "keep Ireland back," holy and pure. We were already cut off by sea so no need for landmines or razor wire. Aer Lingus screwed us for nearly a fortnight's wages to fly/escape to U.K. Either that or the 13 hour slowboat. The Vatican must have rubbed its handswithglee
The President is debating it with the Council of State as I type this (22 Jul). They may send it to the Supreme Court, and appointed judges have 60 days to decide it's constitutionality.
I live in a catholic country and we don't have stuff like that.Jesus titi-fraking Christ whats next? are there going to allow stoning outside the cities?
thankfully non.believers are a still growing part of the population (at least in the capital - where I am) and will overtake the religious (number-wise) in a decade or two. New stats are only made every 10 years and the next one is in 2011. can't wait to see the deference shrink even more ;)
It is a very peculiar state of affairs. Technically, there was already a clause in the Irish constitution outlawing blasphemy, but it's such an archaic, unpoliceable thing it'd been left become comfortably inert. this new initiative has effectively reinvigorated the redundant clause and made it eminently policeable under modern law, rather than simply excising it. The irony is, as you say, that a significant proportion of the Irish population don't want it; it just seems that...
JESUSTITTYFUCKINGCRISTONASTICK!!! There is always going to be some blue haired old laidies & throw-back bible thumpers sticking there noses in other peoples buisness. Some people don't want to know the enlightenment happened.
Great video on this topic. I've been following the blasphemy law by mostly watching 1rishshaman and theatheistknight. I was actually shocked that this was taking place.
I think you presented the topic very well and I am looking forward to more from you :)
Thank you. It was via 1rishShaman's videos that I actually learned of the situation; for some bizarre reason, it has had terrible press coverage here in the U.K. (i.e. none at all). It's thus been a matter of reseraching on-line how the status of blasphemy has stood in irish law historically speaking, and how it is set to change. It is a perturbing state of affairs to say the very least.
It is sort of odd that politicians will talk very openly when they are doing something they believe will "benefit" them... but when they are pushing crap like this, you have to search under every rock to find out about it ;)
I expect every one of these to have a counter claim.
"I don't belong to your religion so I'm not bound by its rules." ... "suck it up and go ask Jebus to hurt me like you normally do... oh that's right that doesn't work does it."
The most interesting aspect of this law is the 25,000-Euro fine for offenders. Is that money likely to be distributed to the "offended" parties? - I think not. But it would serve nicely to, oh, pay down the national debt or redecorate parliamentary offices.
There are already rumnblings of something similar being instituted. If that happens, I'm off. I'll be hopping the next boat/plane to a sane country such as Denmark or Sweden.
Sorry; I had no intention of casting aspersions on america :) It's just that the countries I listed would be my first choice, given my familiarity with them :)
The mind boggles. The words fail me. I'm afraid i'd be complelled to deliberately blaspheme at every possible opportunity. Lets see them actually try and convict someone of this "crime" and watch the world shun poor Ire as a backwards hick country that still resides in dark ages. Its disheartening that a country so close that shares the same language and culture..to some degree can allow themselves to fall so far.
I would make a point of being arrested as many times as possible for committing this crime, then proceed to bring the attention of the world down on such an ignorant law. I would hand write letters to every major mind on the planet, including the president of the US as a form of protest. I would then proceed to contact every major newspaper on earth in the same way. The bad publicity would, I'm sure, get the law overturned.
Thank you. I agree; matters such as the causing or feeling of offense are not matters for the courts; they are matters for individuals to sort out between themselves.
Well, there goes a big chunk of the respect I used to have for Ireland. I heard that the Irish strongly opposed this law, but the fact that it still got in shows who really runs the country.
Actually, there have been calls for it too here in the Netherlands for such a law, but mostly to draw attention that the bad-mouthing of religion has become very very bad indeed. The main reason it probably never made it into a debatable topic is due to such a law pretty much making one of the current political parties here, impossible, as their whole political agenda seems build around harassing muslims.
Thank you. More than anything, the imposition of this law seems to represent the profound disconnect between government and the people it purports to represent; public opinion on this law was generally very negative. Both secular and religious parties have gone on record as opposing it, yet the law seems to have been rushed through without so much as their acknowledgement.
By the way, Denmark has a blaspheme law, has had it for 80 years but it has NEVER been used. Not even once. And if someone tries to use it as was the case with the Muhammed drawings, they got laughed out.
Protected by offense.. = lock yourself up in a dark room, no tv no radio, no newspaper and shoot your brains out with a gun. no more offense for you :)
Terrifying. Does it apply retroactively? I wonder if you could be prosecuted for past videos posted. Wouldn't it be blasphemy to not believe in a particular God? Doesn't that turn the Government effectively into a Theocracy? All depends on how it's interpreted at any given time, doesn't it? The concept of blasphemy is simply the errection of sacred cows, that's true. So do you get a way in which sacred cow is to be supported by this law? I guess it's a race to see who's more backward. Thanks.
That's an interesting point; I've no idea if it applies retroactively or not. There's already a groundswell of opposition from organisations such as "Atheist Ireland," so hopefully the law wont be standing for too long.
It would have been sad if there wasn't any opposition. I'm grateful to hear of that much. You'll often hear people say something about such a thought as, "oh, nobody'd ever inforce it, so why make such a big deal about it?". But it often depends on the mood, and circumstance of the nation at the time, and, if expediency, and interpretation allows them to justify its enforcment. This is the kind of thing that the letigiousness of the Americans can be appreciated. Thanks George
I don't know why, but when I was watching this video it reminded me of a movie I saw called Equilibrium. It's a movie about a world that is without feeling. Has this world just gone straight to Hell? First this blasphemy law, what is next? I gotta tell you, this is going too far.
Has no one heard of Freedom of Speech? I guess those words will never apply now if they're passing laws like this. What do they think it will fix? This will just get worse.
I think what the law demostrates more than anything is the profound disconnect between the Irish government and their people; there was profound opposition to this law from both religious and secular circles, yet it was passed anyway. I imagine it'll be the Irish people themselves who determine how much damage the law actually does.
Another thought provoking video George. It's funny how I always seem to find out about these stupid changes to laws affecting peoples rights through you. It seems religion is really starting to make a violent push back into the mainstream again, with consequences that will probably have more of an impact on those who do not practice religion. This law is dangerous. This is surely going to add fuel to the fire with regards to the Catholic / Protestant problems in N. Ireland. Not good. 5* mate.
I try to stay out of politics as much as possible to be honest; though it's cliche, the whole arena is just one smouldering cess pool that turns even the most idealised human being into a double speaking, self serving hypocrite. But I do like to keep abreast of things that affect people's rights directly, and this situation I found utterly unbelievable; I honestly couldn't believe that the notion of blasphemy is even given time or credence by a modern Western government. There are...
...now worryingly rumblings of something similar being enacted here in the U.K, and I'm afraid if that happens I'll be on the next boat, plane or whatever to Europe. There is no way I'm living in a country where certain groups can proclaim what they like about everyone else but whose own perspectives and positions are protected under law. As always, thank you so much for the kind words; always, always appreciated.
There should never be anti-Blasphemy laws for the simple reason that no human being has the actual authority to enforce it....and any attempt to enforce it would, in itself, be an act of Blasphemy.
We have similar debates in the states from time to time. We, as I'm sure you know, have the 2nd amendment; people who blather about shutting up people with whom they disagree ignore that it is OFFENSIVE speech that the amendment is protecting.
The irony is that one of the Irish Constitution's other statutes specifically protects freedom of speech and expression, so now there is a profound contradiction in Irish law that will undoubtedly serve no more purpose than to restrict and befuddle legal process even further.
The government here consist of nothing but arrogant infantile morons who haven't a damn clue as to how the world actually works. They seem to work on a trial and error method (more error than trial I might add)
I am truly embarrassed that this was passed. And thank you for making this video.
Not a problem at all. I've been following this matter closely for some time now; I was convinced it'd never be passed, and was quite perturbed when it did. I only hope that the rumblings of something similar being imposed here in the U.K. aren't true, because if they are, I'll be on the first plane, boat or whatever out of here.
OK here is what I think will happen. With this law people who have different religious ideas then you and who can enforce this law will say your breaking it. This also restricts the free flow of other ideas on religious ideas threw any media or any form of communication. Keep up the good work.
Beyond its moral/philosophical implications, the law is also very, very ill conceived in practical terms. I mean, the first thing anyone charged under it is going to do is claim that they were simply practising their own beliefs, and since freedom of speech is also protected under the Irish constitution, what you will have is a bizarre legal stalemate.
However I would say this. The first time this is enforced, I will be actually surprised. We have a...loose interpretation of the law at best. One of the reasons a hunt ban in Ireland wouldn't work is because the gardai (police) are always going hunting. If you get my meaning
It is disturbing though, because it's basically saying we can decide what you can say The PC culture is behind this, and the only people who really think...
...this is needed are the same people who use terms like visually impaired (ie the people who aren't blind). I grew up in a fairly religious area, and there's not many things more thick skinned than a native irish person with a religious belief. It's like that ho ho ho thing in australia a couple years back. I hope this law will be repelled because I think it is inherently wrong, but if it's not, they picked a hell of a country to do it. We ignore laws we think make sense, for CHRISTS sake :D
I think you're right; I doubt very much that this law is going to be applied in most cases (for the simple reason that it is impossible to institute and enforce). My principal worry is that some church, group or individual with an axe to grind brings a case against some high profile material (e.g. anything by Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, etc) and decides to make it a legal battleground between one set of beliefs and another. That is when the potential evils of this...
...law will be made apparent. Ha, yes; I think that I have at least one characteristic that's considered a bit dodgy in most human cultures (except French, for some reason).
It's the toys sir, you just had to collect the toys.
And yes, that is most definitely something to watch out for...hell, that's the one thing to worry about. God, we haven't had an issue like that snce the late 80s...hmmmm
Nice to see other videos on the subject. The final definition of it was - " The uttering or publication of blasphemous material with the intent to cause outrage and which does cause outrage " The thing is though, you may look and see "intent to cause" and ask can you get away with it as a joke or not meaning it to take offence. Their new definition of intent is - if it strikes you it may be considered offencive, and then you say it, even wthout meaning to cause offence, it's punishable.
While before people said that it was not going to be able to upheld and charges made on it's previous wording, that wording has since been changed so it CAN now be a punishment of a fine of up to €25,000 for the uttering or media publication (newspapers, magazines, videos, internet media etc) of blasphemous material.
Any material that may cause offense and deminish someones religion. Not the person, but the religion.
I've been following your own videos on the matter closely, as well as reading up on the history of blasphemy in Irish law. The definition they settled on really is insanely vague; first of all, what does it mean by "blasphemous material?" Some would consider the publication of books on pagan mythology or texts detailing Hindu or pagan belief systems as blasphemous. As for that notion of "intent," how precisely does one determine "intent" legally speaking?
They didn't actually decide on the definition until Friday, which was the day it was passed. When the "minister for justice" was asked on the Thursday and before, what was ment by "blasphemy" he just said "you know well enough". He just seems to have attempted to get the religious support, but not even devout religious people support it. What is "illegal" now, is saying something that is blasphemous against a particular religion, or publishing such in any media sector.
In such, if a few people can take offence to it and may report that they where offended by it - ie: a statement in a magazine or a comic in a newspaper etc, then the artist or author of the statement would be prosecuted. Every religion blaspheme each other, but this is more if you cause direct offence to someone or a group of people. It's apperently set in stone now, but it's still insanely confusing...
As for the "intent to cause outrage", they mean that as in the legal term of intent, where if you know that something MAY cause outrage to somebody and you still go ahead and make your statement or publish your work, then that can be taken as an offence should anyone complain.
I would pose as a pagan and bring about charges of blasphemy against christians on a daily basis. I would find an atheist lawyer and go for broke filing charges against every single church, home, person or institution that displays christian propaganda in any way, including the crucifix.
Woah. Hadn't heard about this at all. That's pretty ridiculous. It's amazing the sort of things that happen in politics/law...why on earth people can't understand that favouring a particular religion does not allow equality is beyond me. I find it bizarre that people seem to think they have a legal right to not be offended.
Good video - you always have some great perspectives on these things.
Thank you. Yes, the entire situation seems to be based on the preconception that offense is ultimately an undesirable thing. I, personally, would argue the exact opposite. If one takes offense to a particular statement or position, it automatically forces you to consider (and perhaps re consider) your own; it serves as an acid test for belief, perspective etc, and keeps them fluid and dynamic.
Another law which admits that religion is the weak position, that has to be protected from criticism.
Here in Denmark we have such a law, but it hasn't been used for since early last century. Some Muslims in Denmark tried to have Jyllands Posten tried for blasphemy for the Muhammad cartoons, but luckily the case was rejected.
If your god needs anti-blaspheme laws to protect him/her, your god is a pathetically weak god who does not deserve your praise
Agreed. Blasphemy should not be a notion that is enshrined or even acknowledged by law; it is up to the individual to determine what is offensive, and to determine their own reaction to it.
It's an extremely vague and ropey definition the law works under; it refers to blasphemous proclamations that are "intentionally offensive." How, I would ask, does one determine "intent" legally? And besides which, how is one defining "offense?" There are those who would consider working on the Sabbath blasphemously and intentionally offensive.
Wow, this is archaic!
MobRulesNow 7 months ago
Blasphemy and Heresy are virtues, especially towards Judeo-Christian religions and Islam.
Besides, the Celts are sub-human inbreds and retards. Green-eyes bog dogs, micks, hillbillies, paddies, potato niggers, scum!
PaulieRomanov 7 months ago
On your point about the Blasphemy law making Religion seem weak. If the law makes religion seem weak, that sounds like Blasphemy. Therefore, the Blasphemy law is Blasphemy and the legislature that created it should be fined by every Irish citizen.
TransformingToybox 11 months ago
@dickjones87 - o0o !!!!!!!!
arihuss 1 year ago
Im Irish and I just wanted to tell you that it wasn't passed. It gos against free speech and moral laws so fuck god, fuck Jesus and fuck Kevin Gormely for trying to pass this law!
dadadee100 1 year ago
i enjoy that there is one dislike. and i enjoy that he has come up with more unbelievable points negating this law then i could have originally imagined. beautiful work.
papastiffy 1 year ago
i think some one should test this in a court ,by deliberately saying something like Mohammad was a pedophile on a radio show , then going to a Garda station and handing him or herself in ,any good lawyer would make a laughing stock of this whole nonsense
kevrs2 1 year ago
There is no religions just one Church, and I live in America.
Irish8043 1 year ago
This is in Eire (Ireland), not northern Ireland. England has nothing to do with Eire, that's part of the European union and has been dictated to by the Catholic church for centuries. You want to point the blame, look to the Irish people themselves and the religious dogma they have chosen to follow.
krustofskie 2 years ago
bull shit!!! this guy is just giving his oppion on the subject. it wasnt him or his KIND who oppressed them for 400 years. it was the aristocracy who did this shamefull fuck!! so. my god listen to what he is thinking before you make up your mind about someone obvously having good intentions. what ever...
NilsPille 2 years ago
Same old shit, third world country with first world aspirations. Dermot Ahern is the very incarnate of Eamonn Devalera, the fledgling state's first president. Curiously he was an anglican! He had a deliberate and contrived ambition to "keep Ireland back," holy and pure. We were already cut off by sea so no need for landmines or razor wire. Aer Lingus screwed us for nearly a fortnight's wages to fly/escape to U.K. Either that or the 13 hour slowboat. The Vatican must have rubbed its handswithglee
willibaldvongluck 2 years ago
I think you meant to say repugnant rather than redundant.
dimensionwarped 2 years ago
hopefully they wount enforce it
applefrog111 2 years ago
Thats what happens when you irish drink too much comunion wine instead of Guiness ;))))
danishjimbo2000 2 years ago 2
The president has signed the Defamation law. Oh well, welcome back to the middle ages.
freilerner 2 years ago 6
Yeah, really. I mean, what the hell is next? The Irish version of the Spanish Inquisition?
raymoohackuray 2 years ago
The President is debating it with the Council of State as I type this (22 Jul). They may send it to the Supreme Court, and appointed judges have 60 days to decide it's constitutionality.
dugges 2 years ago
The Irish: proving the 'stupid Irishman' stereotype time and time again.
CuriousMoth 2 years ago
g-d damn!
thats unfair!
standardmagnus 2 years ago
my dear!
i'm embarrassed to be irish today!
its so fuckin dickensian!
and so backward!
ireland is catholic!
it declares itself so!
the irish catholics are pagans disguised as right wing christians!
they say ireland is a land of saints and scholars but now the irish are declaring that they are narrow minded zealots with no tolerance!
shame on the government!
regards, ray
ilovemess 2 years ago 2
holy shit
I live in a catholic country and we don't have stuff like that.Jesus titi-fraking Christ whats next? are there going to allow stoning outside the cities?
thankfully non.believers are a still growing part of the population (at least in the capital - where I am) and will overtake the religious (number-wise) in a decade or two. New stats are only made every 10 years and the next one is in 2011. can't wait to see the deference shrink even more ;)
ciao - Vince
blasphemous enough? ^^
VincentWomack 2 years ago
Hey Vincent,
It is a very peculiar state of affairs. Technically, there was already a clause in the Irish constitution outlawing blasphemy, but it's such an archaic, unpoliceable thing it'd been left become comfortably inert. this new initiative has effectively reinvigorated the redundant clause and made it eminently policeable under modern law, rather than simply excising it. The irony is, as you say, that a significant proportion of the Irish population don't want it; it just seems that...
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
...certain people in positions of political influence have abused their power to bring their own very personal prejudices to bear on the matter.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
The present Taoiseach is tenfold worse than the previous one if he's allowed such a law to be passed through.
Torchmark 2 years ago
JESUSTITTYFUCKINGCRISTONASTICK!!! There is always going to be some blue haired old laidies & throw-back bible thumpers sticking there noses in other peoples buisness. Some people don't want to know the enlightenment happened.
clawdfrawg 2 years ago
Great video on this topic. I've been following the blasphemy law by mostly watching 1rishshaman and theatheistknight. I was actually shocked that this was taking place.
I think you presented the topic very well and I am looking forward to more from you :)
tattooskin72 2 years ago
Hey there Tattooskin,
Thank you. It was via 1rishShaman's videos that I actually learned of the situation; for some bizarre reason, it has had terrible press coverage here in the U.K. (i.e. none at all). It's thus been a matter of reseraching on-line how the status of blasphemy has stood in irish law historically speaking, and how it is set to change. It is a perturbing state of affairs to say the very least.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
It is sort of odd that politicians will talk very openly when they are doing something they believe will "benefit" them... but when they are pushing crap like this, you have to search under every rock to find out about it ;)
tattooskin72 2 years ago
holy cow! I have never seen the author of a video so active in the comments.
nodvick 2 years ago
I expect every one of these to have a counter claim.
"I don't belong to your religion so I'm not bound by its rules." ... "suck it up and go ask Jebus to hurt me like you normally do... oh that's right that doesn't work does it."
you guys should class action the government
destrond69 2 years ago
The most interesting aspect of this law is the 25,000-Euro fine for offenders. Is that money likely to be distributed to the "offended" parties? - I think not. But it would serve nicely to, oh, pay down the national debt or redecorate parliamentary offices.
1Weemaryanne 2 years ago
If this breech of free speech spreads to Britain... Ugh. It just disgusts me.
XChillX42 2 years ago
There are already rumnblings of something similar being instituted. If that happens, I'm off. I'll be hopping the next boat/plane to a sane country such as Denmark or Sweden.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
Oh fuck. -.-
XChillX42 2 years ago
what america isn't "a sane country"?
LOL i kid
i'm an american i know we are insane!
intersting vid i heard somethin about this
sexyYTuser 2 years ago
LOL,
Sorry; I had no intention of casting aspersions on america :) It's just that the countries I listed would be my first choice, given my familiarity with them :)
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
The mind boggles. The words fail me. I'm afraid i'd be complelled to deliberately blaspheme at every possible opportunity. Lets see them actually try and convict someone of this "crime" and watch the world shun poor Ire as a backwards hick country that still resides in dark ages. Its disheartening that a country so close that shares the same language and culture..to some degree can allow themselves to fall so far.
jiidee 2 years ago
I would make a point of being arrested as many times as possible for committing this crime, then proceed to bring the attention of the world down on such an ignorant law. I would hand write letters to every major mind on the planet, including the president of the US as a form of protest. I would then proceed to contact every major newspaper on earth in the same way. The bad publicity would, I'm sure, get the law overturned.
bamboo4tameshigiri 2 years ago
blasphemy... the victimless crime.
I would abuse the hell out of that law and call in everything i hear as blasphemy against X religion..
nodvick 2 years ago 8
That process has already begun from groups such as "Atheist Ireland." :)
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
Instead of debating about laicism; this accomplishment prooves that we would be much better on our own. Very well said.5*
Kai
Android369 2 years ago
Hey Kai,
Thank you. I agree; matters such as the causing or feeling of offense are not matters for the courts; they are matters for individuals to sort out between themselves.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
Well, there goes a big chunk of the respect I used to have for Ireland. I heard that the Irish strongly opposed this law, but the fact that it still got in shows who really runs the country.
BobTKaye 2 years ago
Actually, there have been calls for it too here in the Netherlands for such a law, but mostly to draw attention that the bad-mouthing of religion has become very very bad indeed. The main reason it probably never made it into a debatable topic is due to such a law pretty much making one of the current political parties here, impossible, as their whole political agenda seems build around harassing muslims.
Eucep 2 years ago
And the law itself, of course would have also covered being blasphemous to muslims.
Eucep 2 years ago
Brilliantly argued; as is often the case with your videos I have nothing to substantial add.
RowanFortuneWood 2 years ago 2
Hello Rowan,
Thank you. More than anything, the imposition of this law seems to represent the profound disconnect between government and the people it purports to represent; public opinion on this law was generally very negative. Both secular and religious parties have gone on record as opposing it, yet the law seems to have been rushed through without so much as their acknowledgement.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
Insanity.
boxant 2 years ago
I think Wotan is an asshole. Is that blasphemous?
freethinkerbell 2 years ago
Laws ,like this always leave me speechless
I suppose both figuratively and literally
sigh
nelliediddle 2 years ago
Hey Nellie,
I share your sentiments. I honestly cannot believe that blasphemy is given time or credence by an ostensibly "modern" Western government.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
the world is going backwards
BespokeGroupUK 2 years ago
Christains, creating hell on earth....for a brighter future.
Theism is utterly disgusting
TalanOwens 2 years ago 2
By the way, Denmark has a blaspheme law, has had it for 80 years but it has NEVER been used. Not even once. And if someone tries to use it as was the case with the Muhammed drawings, they got laughed out.
Vogter2100 2 years ago
Protected by offense.. = lock yourself up in a dark room, no tv no radio, no newspaper and shoot your brains out with a gun. no more offense for you :)
Vogter2100 2 years ago
Hey Tomas,
Agreed; the only way to NOT be offended is to not exist.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
I'm quite shocked that a modern European country could pass such a backwards law :(
ramette99 2 years ago 2
They're gonna do it! They're gonna drag us ,kicking and screaming, back to the Dark Ages!
RadarKat73080 2 years ago
That was my first thought when I heard about this... I can't believe it happened over here... and not the states..
FirebirdKnight 2 years ago
Don't be jealous, it's coming here too! They'll start on that after they get ID in the schools.
RadarKat73080 2 years ago
I just hope the UK doesn't pass a law like this or I#m on the first boat out of here.
FirebirdKnight 2 years ago
Jesus fucking Mary mother of fucking God they can't be serious.
I ain't going to Irland any time soon.
bloodyrediron 2 years ago 2
Terrifying. Does it apply retroactively? I wonder if you could be prosecuted for past videos posted. Wouldn't it be blasphemy to not believe in a particular God? Doesn't that turn the Government effectively into a Theocracy? All depends on how it's interpreted at any given time, doesn't it? The concept of blasphemy is simply the errection of sacred cows, that's true. So do you get a way in which sacred cow is to be supported by this law? I guess it's a race to see who's more backward. Thanks.
RichardRoy2 2 years ago
That's an interesting point; I've no idea if it applies retroactively or not. There's already a groundswell of opposition from organisations such as "Atheist Ireland," so hopefully the law wont be standing for too long.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
It would have been sad if there wasn't any opposition. I'm grateful to hear of that much. You'll often hear people say something about such a thought as, "oh, nobody'd ever inforce it, so why make such a big deal about it?". But it often depends on the mood, and circumstance of the nation at the time, and, if expediency, and interpretation allows them to justify its enforcment. This is the kind of thing that the letigiousness of the Americans can be appreciated. Thanks George
RichardRoy2 2 years ago
I don't know why, but when I was watching this video it reminded me of a movie I saw called Equilibrium. It's a movie about a world that is without feeling. Has this world just gone straight to Hell? First this blasphemy law, what is next? I gotta tell you, this is going too far.
Has no one heard of Freedom of Speech? I guess those words will never apply now if they're passing laws like this. What do they think it will fix? This will just get worse.
Great video, George.
doddi1984 2 years ago
That film is really good.
WolfKang1 2 years ago
Hey David,
I think what the law demostrates more than anything is the profound disconnect between the Irish government and their people; there was profound opposition to this law from both religious and secular circles, yet it was passed anyway. I imagine it'll be the Irish people themselves who determine how much damage the law actually does.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
Another thought provoking video George. It's funny how I always seem to find out about these stupid changes to laws affecting peoples rights through you. It seems religion is really starting to make a violent push back into the mainstream again, with consequences that will probably have more of an impact on those who do not practice religion. This law is dangerous. This is surely going to add fuel to the fire with regards to the Catholic / Protestant problems in N. Ireland. Not good. 5* mate.
WolfKang1 2 years ago
Hey Gerard,
I try to stay out of politics as much as possible to be honest; though it's cliche, the whole arena is just one smouldering cess pool that turns even the most idealised human being into a double speaking, self serving hypocrite. But I do like to keep abreast of things that affect people's rights directly, and this situation I found utterly unbelievable; I honestly couldn't believe that the notion of blasphemy is even given time or credence by a modern Western government. There are...
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
...now worryingly rumblings of something similar being enacted here in the U.K, and I'm afraid if that happens I'll be on the next boat, plane or whatever to Europe. There is no way I'm living in a country where certain groups can proclaim what they like about everyone else but whose own perspectives and positions are protected under law. As always, thank you so much for the kind words; always, always appreciated.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
If thats the case, save me a seat.
WolfKang1 2 years ago
There should never be anti-Blasphemy laws for the simple reason that no human being has the actual authority to enforce it....and any attempt to enforce it would, in itself, be an act of Blasphemy.
LordCustos3 2 years ago
This is another one of the problematic contradictions the law represents.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
We have similar debates in the states from time to time. We, as I'm sure you know, have the 2nd amendment; people who blather about shutting up people with whom they disagree ignore that it is OFFENSIVE speech that the amendment is protecting.
DasAmericanAtheist 2 years ago
Hey James,
The irony is that one of the Irish Constitution's other statutes specifically protects freedom of speech and expression, so now there is a profound contradiction in Irish law that will undoubtedly serve no more purpose than to restrict and befuddle legal process even further.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
The government here consist of nothing but arrogant infantile morons who haven't a damn clue as to how the world actually works. They seem to work on a trial and error method (more error than trial I might add)
I am truly embarrassed that this was passed. And thank you for making this video.
CSIPortlaoise 2 years ago
Not a problem at all. I've been following this matter closely for some time now; I was convinced it'd never be passed, and was quite perturbed when it did. I only hope that the rumblings of something similar being imposed here in the U.K. aren't true, because if they are, I'll be on the first plane, boat or whatever out of here.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
OK here is what I think will happen. With this law people who have different religious ideas then you and who can enforce this law will say your breaking it. This also restricts the free flow of other ideas on religious ideas threw any media or any form of communication. Keep up the good work.
Shawn.
movieman33843 2 years ago
Hey there Shawn,
Beyond its moral/philosophical implications, the law is also very, very ill conceived in practical terms. I mean, the first thing anyone charged under it is going to do is claim that they were simply practising their own beliefs, and since freedom of speech is also protected under the Irish constitution, what you will have is a bizarre legal stalemate.
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
I go away for a while and this happens...
However I would say this. The first time this is enforced, I will be actually surprised. We have a...loose interpretation of the law at best. One of the reasons a hunt ban in Ireland wouldn't work is because the gardai (police) are always going hunting. If you get my meaning
It is disturbing though, because it's basically saying we can decide what you can say The PC culture is behind this, and the only people who really think...
GWolfV2 2 years ago
...this is needed are the same people who use terms like visually impaired (ie the people who aren't blind). I grew up in a fairly religious area, and there's not many things more thick skinned than a native irish person with a religious belief. It's like that ho ho ho thing in australia a couple years back. I hope this law will be repelled because I think it is inherently wrong, but if it's not, they picked a hell of a country to do it. We ignore laws we think make sense, for CHRISTS sake :D
GWolfV2 2 years ago
And of course your way of life is condemned. You're an intellectual toy collector who isn't monosexual. Burn him!!
GWolfV2 2 years ago
Hey there GWolf,
I think you're right; I doubt very much that this law is going to be applied in most cases (for the simple reason that it is impossible to institute and enforce). My principal worry is that some church, group or individual with an axe to grind brings a case against some high profile material (e.g. anything by Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, etc) and decides to make it a legal battleground between one set of beliefs and another. That is when the potential evils of this...
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
...law will be made apparent. Ha, yes; I think that I have at least one characteristic that's considered a bit dodgy in most human cultures (except French, for some reason).
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
It's the toys sir, you just had to collect the toys.
And yes, that is most definitely something to watch out for...hell, that's the one thing to worry about. God, we haven't had an issue like that snce the late 80s...hmmmm
GWolfV2 2 years ago 2
Nice to see other videos on the subject. The final definition of it was - " The uttering or publication of blasphemous material with the intent to cause outrage and which does cause outrage " The thing is though, you may look and see "intent to cause" and ask can you get away with it as a joke or not meaning it to take offence. Their new definition of intent is - if it strikes you it may be considered offencive, and then you say it, even wthout meaning to cause offence, it's punishable.
1rishShaman 2 years ago
While before people said that it was not going to be able to upheld and charges made on it's previous wording, that wording has since been changed so it CAN now be a punishment of a fine of up to €25,000 for the uttering or media publication (newspapers, magazines, videos, internet media etc) of blasphemous material.
Any material that may cause offense and deminish someones religion. Not the person, but the religion.
1rishShaman 2 years ago
Hey there 1rishShaman,
I've been following your own videos on the matter closely, as well as reading up on the history of blasphemy in Irish law. The definition they settled on really is insanely vague; first of all, what does it mean by "blasphemous material?" Some would consider the publication of books on pagan mythology or texts detailing Hindu or pagan belief systems as blasphemous. As for that notion of "intent," how precisely does one determine "intent" legally speaking?
George
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
They didn't actually decide on the definition until Friday, which was the day it was passed. When the "minister for justice" was asked on the Thursday and before, what was ment by "blasphemy" he just said "you know well enough". He just seems to have attempted to get the religious support, but not even devout religious people support it. What is "illegal" now, is saying something that is blasphemous against a particular religion, or publishing such in any media sector.
1rishShaman 2 years ago 2
In such, if a few people can take offence to it and may report that they where offended by it - ie: a statement in a magazine or a comic in a newspaper etc, then the artist or author of the statement would be prosecuted. Every religion blaspheme each other, but this is more if you cause direct offence to someone or a group of people. It's apperently set in stone now, but it's still insanely confusing...
1rishShaman 2 years ago
As for the "intent to cause outrage", they mean that as in the legal term of intent, where if you know that something MAY cause outrage to somebody and you still go ahead and make your statement or publish your work, then that can be taken as an offence should anyone complain.
- Paul M.
1rishShaman 2 years ago
I would pose as a pagan and bring about charges of blasphemy against christians on a daily basis. I would find an atheist lawyer and go for broke filing charges against every single church, home, person or institution that displays christian propaganda in any way, including the crucifix.
bamboo4tameshigiri 2 years ago 2
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Xiller8 2 years ago
Woah. Hadn't heard about this at all. That's pretty ridiculous. It's amazing the sort of things that happen in politics/law...why on earth people can't understand that favouring a particular religion does not allow equality is beyond me. I find it bizarre that people seem to think they have a legal right to not be offended.
Good video - you always have some great perspectives on these things.
Sarifus 2 years ago
Hey there Sarifus,
Thank you. Yes, the entire situation seems to be based on the preconception that offense is ultimately an undesirable thing. I, personally, would argue the exact opposite. If one takes offense to a particular statement or position, it automatically forces you to consider (and perhaps re consider) your own; it serves as an acid test for belief, perspective etc, and keeps them fluid and dynamic.
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
Another law which admits that religion is the weak position, that has to be protected from criticism.
Here in Denmark we have such a law, but it hasn't been used for since early last century. Some Muslims in Denmark tried to have Jyllands Posten tried for blasphemy for the Muhammad cartoons, but luckily the case was rejected.
If your god needs anti-blaspheme laws to protect him/her, your god is a pathetically weak god who does not deserve your praise
All anti-blaspheme laws should go away
mortensjoegren 2 years ago
Agreed. Blasphemy should not be a notion that is enshrined or even acknowledged by law; it is up to the individual to determine what is offensive, and to determine their own reaction to it.
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago
You're not allowed to blaspheme? O.O. What a sad day for freedom of speech in Ireland.
RazorShultzor 2 years ago
It's an extremely vague and ropey definition the law works under; it refers to blasphemous proclamations that are "intentionally offensive." How, I would ask, does one determine "intent" legally? And besides which, how is one defining "offense?" There are those who would consider working on the Sabbath blasphemously and intentionally offensive.
ExaggeratedElegy 2 years ago