I read about this earlier this evening whilst writing an essay on fascism for my A2 government class. The first thing that went through my head was "wow, America is displaying every single one of these..."
I LOLd at this video. The pointy-headed academic who came up with these arbitrary "characteristics of fascism" has obviously failed to study the real characteristics of fascism. He was just trying to smear the Bush Administration (I wonder if he's willing to claim the same things about the Obama Administration). Only the mentally and morally deficient people would characterize the USA as "fascist."
this video's "points" are tailored towards calling america fascist
america has an increasing number of fascist trends right now, but fascism is more of a process, and people like this are a part of that process
by inaccurately labeling and describing fascism you open the door to ridicule of people who would do so where it actually exists and talk about the aspects of it one might be practicing now
this means you are engaging and administering to demagoguery yourselves
@noobler9 in short this is sound bite demagoguery itself, a far cry from the lofty complex discussions of what one might wish to happen and how one might be able to achieve it, that is what the founding fathers of the USA, and numerous politicians who explained and discussed how fascism occurs and what it means and what usually happens within them and during their rise + fall while he might shout about how he loves democracy he is not participating in such a manner as to actually encourage it
Hell, you forgot disarming the public. And Suppression of Labor? The word Nazi is an abbreviation of the National Socialist German Workers Party. As for suppression of the Arts and Intellectuals, liberals are the ones doing that. Then they scream how the "other party" is "suppressing" said categories because they are not throwing massive government subsidies at them. Rigging elections? Which organization has racked up quite a few voter registration related felonies? ACORN.
PLUS how about an "Obama Flash", since HE is who the Conservatives need to defeat in 2012! Kind of counterproductive to continually attack Conservatives who disagree with you. If you spent 1/2 the energy revealing Obama & his Soros run govt., you may just accomplish something. All you are doing here is attacking those who don't care for Paul. Way to run a "Pro-Paul" campaign...insult and talk down to those you should try to persuade to join you in your campaign. Just who is ignorant here?!
My comment was meant for TrueConservative...I'm very tired and I didn't mean to respond to myself (obviously). lol That's why I double posted. Sorry about that.
Wait a second, some of those 14 points are good !!! E.G. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in one's nation. Maybe the maker of the video could make a video about marxism, now there's an evil concept.
Nationalism as the norm in USA hell no! What USA has is (often stupid) patriotic loyalty to their government and thanks to Ron Paul even some LOYALTY to the American constitution.
Real nationalism is loyalty to the volk and their ancestral land. Not to any leader or government. (That’s secondary) USA had until the 60s some form of nationalism with their Anglo-Saxon culture and shared European ancestry that in concert created a nation by Europeans under god.
the (self-) deception of usa is that they were founded on a somehow progressive/egalitarian spirit. but indeed the british settlers on the east coast were even more imperialistic and selfish than their motherland.
an ancient Roman symbol of power carried by lictors in front of magistrates; a bundle of sticks featuring an axe, indicating the power over life and death. Before the Italian fascists adopted the fasces, the symbol had been used by Italian political organizations of various political ideologies (ranging from socialist to nationalist), called Fascio ("leagues") as a symbol of strength through unity.
Why are they hanging on the walls of the US Congress?
America's population is made up from the descendants of immigrants from all over the world. Most of them were trying to escape from despotism, war or poverty. Now America transforms into the mother of tyrannies that our ancestors feared. Creativity is where salvation lies. A redemptive dawn awaits!
@TheTrueConservative Okay, sorry, but I read that site and it's nothing I haven't already heard before (several times). Please, please tell me you are not a Ron Paul follower! He'd have us be helpless...thinks it OKAY for Iran to have nukes??!! Come on, folks. This country is so very far left and so very far right...Beck was right! Soon you meet in the middle! Some strange place that I cannot even fathom. God Bless you all and carry on. I cannot ID with any of this. I want a strong U.S.
@TheTrueConservative And YOU are drinking Koolaid, if YOU think it's ok for that raving mad Ajad & Iran to have nukes! Are you serious??!! Remember, to them WE are Satan #1. What, if Ron Paul is in office they won't use the nukes? Why is that? PLUS, he can't get a single person in Congress to vote with him! HOW will he get Congress to work with his loopy azz?? He is the Right version of Socialist Bernie Sanders. Both nuts! Carry on...I have nothing further to add. I agree to disagree.
@Astrocatlady Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not even in charge of Iran. The Supreme Leader is, then comes in the General Council, then Ahmainejad. We can't do anything to Iran unless our national security in threatened, which there is no evidence to prove that there is. If our security is threatened, Ron Paul will act. What we don't need is another war to nation build another money pit in the middle east. As for your other comments, I will just *sigh.* Ignorance is bliss.
@TheTrueConservative Unfortunately, with a nuclear attack, it would be a tad late for "Ron Paul to act". AND they have stated (the Mullahs) that in order to bring out the "12th Iman" who is currently living in well, according to those INSANE folks, Iran NEEDS to bring bloodshed to the "infidels". And YES, I DO know the politcal breakdown of Iran....how insulting you are! Pretty damn full of yourself, aren't you?! Man oh man, way to gain support for Paul! Insult everyone! SIGH!!!!! LOL
@Astrocatlady This took a sharp turn into LaLaLand. The last Dem I voted for was Clinton & I DO mean LAST. Obama makes Bill look Conservative! This Admin is VERY scary (READ..don't follow ANY news)! Newt is the one who can take on Obama....eat him up in a debate (no teleprompter). Romney (Dem-Lite),Paul(scary-thinks ok for Iran to have nuke),Bachmann loopy,Perry/Cain gone. I wanted West, but now Newt it is! He helped clean up Carter's mess, so has experience AND it is sorely needed!!
@TheTrueConservativeThis took a sharp turn into LaLaLand. The last Dem I voted for was Clinton & I DO mean LAST. Obama makes Bill look Conservative! This Admin is VERY scary (READ..don't trust ANY news)! Newt is the one who can take on Obama...will eat him up in a debate (no teleprompter). Romney (Dem-Lite),Paul(scary-thinks ok for Iran to have nuke),Bachmann loopy,Perry/Cain gone. I wanted West, but now Newt it is! He helped clean up Carter's mess, so has experience AND it is sorely needed!!
Although America is falling down the wrong path and, and Bush was a leader of anti-free policies this video is still flawed. You see all you do is attack the Neo Cons who yes are war mongering asswholes but still the other party is just as harmful to our freedoms. We must understand that MAINSTREAM leaders of both parties do not have our best interests at heart. It is not just one or the other it is both working against US.
that about sums up george bush in a nut shell, obama needs to be more liberal, i know the gop, is keeping him down some, but he needs to fight the fascist right wing, in this country, the gop tea party is the modern day version of the fascist movement, only with cheney as their hitler
@Jaildale read about Benito Mussolinis domestic policies and come back and tell me how they are different from Obama and Bush. Fascism is about the merger o corporate and state powers ie Big Business controlling Big Government and the people footing the bill, read up and disprove this.
@LibertarianChristian And to think, you have "Libertarian" in your username... Ron Paul, you have to be fucking joking. Also, wake up son, the Bible is bullshit.
@FmMan33 yeah not joking, you should see his voting record and actually hear what he believes and stop listening to mainstream media. The bible is a testimony to Jesus, he is Lord and the only one with power over death.
@LibertarianChristian IF Ron Paul gets elected and IF he is really willing to keep his promises (politicians are generally professional liars), he will be killed. Ron Paul or any other cult figure is simply not enough to change the current political system.
Prescott Bush was a supporter of Hitler for years and even during WW2.Check out his involvment in the 1933 coup attempt on FDR.Bush along with GM,US Steel,Goodyear, Chase Bank and others planned to install a fascist regime in the USA.
Allow me to say that if America was indeed fascist the baffon who produced this bilge would end up simply missing... The number one ingredient for a fascist govt is the presence of a dictator... As little as I care for Pres Obama I can't call him a dictator. Especially given the fact the American people pulled all his teeth last November. You gotta love democracy in action... Ronald Reagan rules... Go America!!
@jklsr55 it's only a matter of time until he's amassed enough power to do that. He already can order hits on US citizens, go to war without without asking congress ie bombing Libya and how many countries have been invaded/bombed in the last 10 years?
this guy got number 10 completely wrong. Mussolini was actually a syndicalist. And Fox News is not the only news outlet. Just because there happens to be one outlet that has right-leaning bias doesn't mean the entire media is controlled. Everything else I agree with.
Umm ... have you been watching the news lately? You really think dissent is tolerated in the US? How is it that US politicians are calling for the assassination of a person who hasn't broken any laws? [cough] Fascism
[cough]!
Place "Naomi Wolf American Tears" in Google and have a read about dissent in the US.
This video completely left out one of the most important concepts of fascism: absence of dissent. Americans, even this video, are allllll about their RIGHT to dissent. In a fascist regime, dissent is absolutely intolerable. Dissatisfaction is made known through the government channels and then government officials are held responsible. See that happening anytime soon in America?
I believe that this DvD was made before Obama was elected. Obama is just part of the same group. Obama continues Bush's policies of war and tax cuts for the rich.
Democrats are fascists. They are anti-Jewish, anti-Christian, pro-abortion, pro-Sharia. Fascist Democrats also support rape hoaxes, rap music, quota systems, and brown supremacist La Raza. Fascist Democrats also support Islamists who want to criminalize any criticize of suicide bombers, honor killings, or Sharia law.
how the fuck can they be anti-christian when the majority of them are christian u twat!
pro-sharia???? do u even know what sharia law is?? why the fuck would christian democrats be supportive of islamic extremism.
democrats support islamists?? u cunt...the president who gave the mujahideen in afghanistan over 3 billion dollars to fight the soviets was republican....note: 4 of the mujahideen's main leaders were islamic extreminsts!
@dpvirk Liberals so blame Jews for everything. Have you ever seen one of their "peace rallies" where they attack Israel while defending Hamas. Liberals would roll out the welcome mat for radical Islam while suing to get rid of Christianity. Leftists believe we're not sensitive enough to Islamic terrorists like Nidal Hasan or Carlos Bledsoe.
dude the fact that they may be more sympathetic 2 Palestine doesn't mean their anti-jewish. i live in ireland and i'm sure you've heard of the troubles in the north of ireland? well thats been over 4 years but to this day...catholic areas would fly palestinian flags because they can relate their cause, while prods usually fly isreali flags because they feel its their right to be there. But neither side is against the other if ya know what i mean??
I think that these 14 points are abstract and non objective. Fascist is revolutionary shit, anyways.
The more accurate definition is: Autoritharian and statizing regime, which claims to the state the control of economy and society alleging nationalist purposes.
It's simple.
I believe that this definition was made to attack conservatives.
@cayetanoluis i dnt mind reading something biased most things are. robert paxton doesn't sound to biased. i like books that arent afraid to write abt the good and the bad of something.
@cayetanoluis i will read it, is there any other place you get your info from? plato's contribution to fascism was the idea that democracy is inherently flawed and destined to fail, he believed that the state should be ruled by all powerful "philosopher kings".
@cayetanoluis ...not want to be bulldozed by the blitz so he allied himself with hitler when the nazis invaded northern italy, after that Mussolini's government was rn by the SS he was just a figurehead. a cowardice move on his part and his final mistake.
@cayetanoluis he began as a hardcore marxist, he used to carry around a copy of the manifesto, he began to dissagree with marxists after he got involved in political groups, he stoped believeing the it was abt a class war and that it was abt the various political groups that fought with each other. once he stoped beleiving in international socialism he becam an enemy to the Communists and felt the threatened italy, also he witnessed the military power of hitler and like france did...
@atrueamerican1 no man hes not a socialist, he dosnt know what he is, most ppl dont. misunderstanding get perpetuated so easily when ppl dont research things for themselves. I am a socialist, but the tea party folks have rallied real working americans in a way that socialism cant anymore. political affiliation doesn't really matter, all that matters is taking the control of america away from the corporate interests and banks and back into the hands of actual americans, then we decide politics.
@thewaterwillcome Today's Democratic Party in the US is not unlike the National Socialist Party of Pre-WWII Germany. They are Socialists, and wish to Nationalize their ideals. Funny thing about Socialism is that it requires Central Planning, and Central Planning requires Central Authority. Central Authority = Fascism
More importantly, the Federal Gov't has no authority to impose it upon us, however our leaders have usurped the Constitution and have become our Rulers.
@atrueamerican1 the national socialist party formed paramilitary armies and beat and killed dissenters in the streets. they created a party outline unified by the hatred of all non aryans. it was not central control it was absolute control. some of the far left DNC seek socialized democracy, but real socialism is not on the democratic left-right political scale, it is a religious ideology. democracy means we choose, if there is fascism in america it is by our own design and consent.
fascism and religion are not intertwined, fascism is a religion that believes in the state instead of a god, fascism is usually opposed to traditional religions. under fascism in italy women were given the right to vote and hold office (one of the first european countries to do so) all labor was unionized, child labor banned, 8 hr work day, min retirement age, and minimum wage established, and 85% of all profits of military contracts were seised to stop corporations from profiting from war
@ sunofthe cea. Well put - So lets JUST focus on the JUSTIFIED hatred of the USA. That alone will keep us busy studying for years. The endless unwarranted bombings, the institutionalized racism, the proxy and direct wars, the forced instability thru the World Bank etc, the corporatism like NO ONE else's corporatism, you name it.
Formerly a follower of the doctrine of Fascism, a vicious political philosophy of a militarist totalitarianism. Nowadays, the word Fascist refers to anyone who annoys you, even slightly. “Fascizzle my nizzle!”~ Snoop Dogg on Fascism. There is much unjustified hatred in the world. There is unjustified hatred of the USA. Much of this arises from the victimisation complex that sweeps much of mankind. Whoever is in charge, whoever is powerful or successful will also be hated. Inferiority complex.
RAMPANT SEXISM! What a fucking joke this is!! LOL!! #6 CONTROLLED MASS MEDIA!!! And they point to Fox News!!! HaHahahaha! All Fox has done is loosen the grip by the left wing "CONTROLLED MASS MEDIA" FOR DECADES!!!!! Hows Obama THE CORPORATIST working out for you?
Outstanding! bush is the worst Non-Elected creature to ever install himself in office. He should still be tried and if convicted , hung for War Crimes, or handed over to the Iraqis for justice.
@mccainisthrough Why am i bothering to debate this ten years later? Ok, Bush was not elected? God are you people dumb. The popular vote went to Gore, but guess what, THATS NOT HOW PRESIDENTS ARE ELECTED IN THIS COUNTRY! If you don't like it, change it, but not in the middle of an election. GORE LOST! Wahh!!! With a straight face, tell me Gore would have actually been a good president... The guy is a bigger joke than Bush was. A couple of these 14 things hold some water, the rest are just crap.
bush was NOT elected, he was installed by a gop court after filing bush v Gore, a case that HALTED recounting the votes of American citizens in a state where bush's campaign head, harris a POS, was the person who certified the election results, which was against bush. bush's first cousin, jeb, john ellis bush, was the POS who went on fox comedy news spreading the lie that Gore didn't win the state of Florida, which he did, easily. You're an idiot. Go away Moron!
@mccainisthrough Look, i can tell you're mindnumbingly ignorant, but Gore lost. I won't waste my time sending you another message after this. You can't just recount the votes in only the counties that would be more likely to benefit you, and do it as many times as it takes to get you in. The courts ruled on what the law was prior to the election. You DUMBFUCKS want everything to change to benefit you after the votes were cast. WAHHH!!!!! You whiney pussies!
You're clearly a moron, it's painfully obvious, sententious too. Your condescension only serves as further proof of your ineptitude and inability to comprehend sarcasm, and facts. You can explain yourself all you like, but you're best served by doing it on a couch in a good psychiatrists office. Now move along Cletus, your possum roast with get cold.
@mccainisthrough Fascism was not religious nor conservative. And its final goal was the substitution of the army by a popular militia. Among other things. Points 9, 10 and 11 are plain stupid. Mussolini introduced the 8 hours working day and old age pensions and banned child labor. Corporations were not protected but controlled by the government. And fascism was obsessed with art.
So patriotism is bad and al qaeda is just a scape goat? And how the hell was Bush a sexist- o and u seriously believe REPUBLICANS control the media? This a joke?
fascism has evolved to the point where it can be defined as the people completely losing power to the executives. usually with some advent of violence and suppression by the state.
"A system of GOVERNMENT that exercises a DICTATORSHIP of the EXTREME RIGHT - typically through the MERGING of STATE and BUSINESS LEADERSHIP, TOGETHER with BELLIGERENT NATIONALISM"
Yes. ANd not goverment by the people and fro the people - but for the few and by the few. Rich and wealthy. I realized that Stalin did Communist USSR what Fascist have done during last 100 years for Capitalism. Socializing (negavilely way - not related to SOCIALISM itself, but opposite of that) all for themselves. And Grabbing power for themselves.
yes..i believe that in the US, socialism is being used as an outlet to eventually form a fascism..it's the perfect bait and switch tactic..because socialism is a great idea. it's subtle, and revolves around equality for all..it's very inviting..what better way to push fascism than thru socialism?
SOCIALISM is misused in USA by Republican far right wing nazis (SS USA), fascist related to FAR RIGHT wing (SA USA) obama nad Democratic party. NO different competion . Just think about Like 2 mobsters - competing who leads 4th reich - just like once in 3rd reich. And 2006-2009 was 'Night of the Long Knives' in USA -except it was (long) Years of the blunt knives marriage. Socialsim is not related to Fascism at all.
I have to study socialism. I think if somebody does that - He/she is fake socialist. You'll see FASICSTS are the MOST SELFISH and greed people. I have watched lot of socialist (but not communists style socialists) videos - and what is COMMON to them - and I noticed that miost of them were very good decient people and moreover most UNSELFISH people. Noam Chomsky is very much like them even he's not exactly like them. Watch John pilger and you'll is the greatness of humanity and will to do good..
And remember that people like Chavez are Socialists - who wnat to SOCIALIZE oil ptofits for people of venezuela by NATIONALIZINg - juts like NATIONALIST Mossadeq tried to do once -and was blamed as communist by FASCIST terorist staes like USA and UK -same who owns today most of Global media conglomerates. Or FASCIST Australian Nazi-War Criminal KEY Nazi-Propagandist Rupert Murdoch who owns alsmost 1/3 of world media. No different Terorist killer like after WWII hanged head of Der Stürmer.
My icon John pilger as an exaple is a Scocialist who have revealed lies of Fascists, nazi-Fascist and communists. During my research I realized how our western "democracies" were biggest bullshit artist during cold war. Expecially fascist core of NATO staes -all NWO terrorist states today. If you read even from Wikipedia - you will notice that there are actuially forms of SOCIALISM which aren't supporting communist tyranny at all. And people in USA are on pursosely fead with disinformation.
WORD SOCIALISM is used for purpose of FEAR MONGERING (with DISINFORMATION) to ensure FASCISTS and NAZIS like in USA more power - like Hitler did. EXAMPLE: Saying Obama is Socialist - when Obama ACTUALLY is Nazi-Fascist -= far right wing 'system'/idiology.
In FASCIST MUSSOLINI there were also fascist jews. Today there are Nazi-Fascist jews all over -in USA israel etc - they are better known as racist Zionists.
Ever heard of Ernst Rohm? He was the leader of the Nazi SA, and for his arm of the Nazi party, the word "Socialist" in "National Socialist" meant something.
In any case, when you get past the rhetoric and just examine the economics, they are quite similar. In the Doctrine of Fascism, Mussolini lays out the goal of fascism as the creation of a single monopolistic organism-like corporate state, which is identical to State ownership of the means of production (socialism.)
The socialist part of the name national socialist party was an historical relic from the days, before hitler, when the party had been a left leaning workers' party.
Socialism is NOT state control of the means of production. Stalin was NOT a socialist.
In socialism the means of production are controlled by the workers.
Fascism was devoloped as a means of STOPPING socialism.
Anarchists are socialists, where's the state tyranny there? (Anarchocapitalism is an
You have clearly never read ANY socialist writings. Marx intended that the state could only be used in a transitionary period, it has to ultimately be destroyed and be replaced by workers' cooperatives.
Oh, I have. And it is clear that the trasitionary phase (i.e. socialism) to the utopia that is communism is intended to be repressive. It isn't called the tyranny of the proletariat for nothing. And the utopia can't be forged without beating the selfishness of the individual out of him. It takes a long time to create New Socialist Man.
No, it's not intended to be repressive. It is understood that the priveliged classes will always attempt to use violence in order to reatain said priveliges. The state is needed in order to organise against the counter-revolution. The Spanish civil war is an excellent example, Franco (a fascist) orchestrated a coup in reaction to the left wing coalition government, in particular its communist and anarchist elements. The weakness of the Spanish government, allied
to the right wing Stalin's need to pacify his capitalist allies by manipulating the Spanish communists into liquidating the Trotskyists and Anarchists, was the main reason for the defeat of the republic. Franco was seen by the ruling classes in Britain as a hero, defending their way of life.
It's not called the tyrranny of the proletariat at all. It's the dictatorship of the proletariat. Meaning that the proletarians are allowed to dictate the way the worplaces they work in are
run. It's not dictatorship in the accepted sense of the word.
There i can be no utopia. Only the most vulgar socialist could imagine that there will ever be a final victory for the masses.
Socialism (true socialism, not the right wing ideology of Stalin that pretended to socialism) is the most democratic system imaginable. Not only is social policy decided in a democratic manner, so is the economy.
Socialism is not about being selfless, it's about the workers benefitting from the fruits of
their labour, without the exploitation of capital. We do not reject capitalism because we think that the fruits of a man's labour should be shared with parasites, we reject it because we think they should not. (The difference between capital and markets is a fundamental one, we do not reject the idea of fair trade).
I can only imagine that you have read the writings of Joe McCarthy or Ayn Rand on socialism.
was exactly that. Marx called antisemetism the socialism of the stupid precisely because it was used as a tool to divide and manipulate the working classes. If they see Jews, rather than class privelige, as the problem they will focus their energies that way.
Fascism is an extreme form of conservativism or, to put it another way, conservativism is diet fascism.
Interestingly, according to the Hitler, it was the reverse. The Jews, who had taken control through laissez-faire liberalism, created bolshevism to siphon off the natural resentment of the aryan proles.
Ernst Rohm was the leader of the Nazi left-wing. The party used a lot of socialist demogoguery (a reundancy?) during its climb to power. Really, Hitler's economic policies were Keynesian. The first Keynesian, he has been called.
Socialism is not just an ecomic system. There are well defined social policies too. In order to be classed as a member of the left you cannot have the right wing, reactionary, social policy Hitlet had.
Trotsky was just as totalitarian as Stalin. So singling out Stalin here is absurd. Machiavelli pointed out the advantage in having a worse tyrant take over for a while, so the prince looks good by comparison, and the post-Stalin USSR used this too.
Trotsky was never the leader of the USSR. He was not a totalitarian at all. Have you read his theory of permanent revolution? He argued that we missout bourgeos democracy and dictatorship, provided it was an international movement.
It was Trotsky who pointed out that Stalinist Russia was state capitalist, not socialist. In my opinion the Soviet experement was a disaster from that point on.
was the violent white counter-revolution. This left them with very few workers so the people who were supposed to be running the country had been killed. It also meant that Lennin had to be more of a strong-man leader. In my opinion the party was doomed the later days of Lenin's leadership onwards. Let me make that very clear, I am not an apologist for the USSR.
Lenin had said, in a suppressed manuscript, that Stalin could not be allowed to remain in
the party because he was getting too power hungry, shortly before his death. Trotsky an Lenin disagreed on many things, Trotsky was more of a libertarian and further to the left, having joined the Bolsheviks from the Mensheviks late on. But his opinions were always valued and it was assumed that he would take over. Trotsky was exiled and eventually murdered after launching the fourth international. He was considered the biggest threat to Stalin, greater than the west, because
the people trusted him and he could, possible, have persuaded them that Stalin was not a true communist and was betraying them, setting up a state-capitalist system.
The only time Trotsky could ever have been described as a totalitarian was during the war with the whites. But he really had no choice, he was no more of a dictator than Winston Churchill.
In my opinion the people who carried the spirit of marxism were Rosa Luxemburg, Leon
Lessons have been learned from the Soviet disaster, the main one being that we always have to be honest with ourselves, we must not pretend a bad system is working just because we want it to be, as many communists did. (The tendency I belong to is a Trotskyist one, heavily influenced by Luxemburg, and we had predicted what was going to happen, almost from Lenin's death.) We must never relinquish democratic power for what we are told is the
greater good, a lesson that we shouldn't really have had to learn the hard way.
What I do know, however, is the US is not run by fascists. It's your average imperial, capitalist society. I can see the recession moving them into a less severe form of state capitalism but never fascism; it's hard to subdue an armed populace.
"And it is clear that the trasitionary phase (i.e. socialism) "
Are you American? It's well known that the Americans have defined political traditions differently, in a manner remeniscent of Orwell's newspeak. (They've persuaded most people that the capitalist mode of production is democratic!)
Socialism is a generic term for all egalitarian social systems, this includes anarchy, communism, market (or keynesian) socialism and several others. Socialism does not necessarily require a state.
I am using Marx's delineation of the evolution of society from slave state despotism, to liberal bourgeois capitalist to socialism, and then to communism. Socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production, communism is from each according to his need from each according to his ability. Socialism is the bridge to communism, in Marxism. I am aware that socialism is used more generically than that, but it is also a word used by certain Parties for complete state control as well.
Socialism is also defined as the ownership of the means of the production by the people generally, not just the workers. The only real world mechanism for such collective ownership is the State. While I agree that anarchocapitalism is untenable, so is anarchosocialism. In anarchy, how would you prevent the exploitation of labor. You can't, because there would be no monopoly on the use of force to prevent it. If there is a monopoly on the use of force, that is a State.
It si the common ownership of the means of production, that much is true. But decisions are made by those most affected, ie. the workers.
I did not say that anarchocapitalism was untenable, I said it was anoxymoron. The rejection of capitalism is an essential element of anarchism, as is the rejection of all other systems of hierarchy.
How does a monopoly on the use of force help us? How do we know the monopoly
holders will work in the interests of the people (I think it can be demonstrated that they do not)
Under communism we are policed by workers' militias. This balance of force deters its use. If you are likely to incur as much damage as your enemy you will only use the force if it is absolutely necessary.
So, under communism, instead of being policed by government goons, we'll be policed by union mafia thugs. How is that an improvement? A monopoly on force is a monopoly on force. The first justification for having a State is to prevent a worse one from arising. I disagree with you about anarchocapitalism being an oxymoron, because anarchy merely means "no state." But anarchy is just a vacuum waiting to be filled by a despot. I'll take a liberal bourgeois constitution over union mafia thugs.
The political philosophy is more complex than that. Anarchists reject all forms of hierarchy. (Read Bakunin, Proudhon or Goldman).
Workers' militia are not "mafia thugs". They're the workers themselves, not representatives of the workers. As it stands the working classes have no police. The rich and ruling class have a police force but they know who their bosses are. You keep telling yourself that the parasites that steal the money you earn are protecting you. That's what they want to hear.
I am aware of the point of view of Bakunin, and Proudhon, as well as Chomsky and Ayers, but that doesn't support the idea that liberal capitalist anarchism is a contradiction in terms, because anarchy merely means, "no state." Worker's militias are really a state anyway. Enforcement implies forcing someone to do something against their will. And, as Max Weber observed, every organization of human beings winds up developing an elite. It is an inevitability of our vulnerability to force.
I totally reject the idea that hierarchy and the need for elites is the inevitable result of some flaw in human nature. It is the result of using economic and political systems that make them inevitable. It is in fact inhuman. If you look at the work of the anthropologists who deal with tribal societies there are many without any hierarchy, private property or exploitation of any form. The Aboriginal tribes in Australia are an excellent example, they have been around longer than any "modern"
society yet have somehow managed to avoid this "inevitable" development.
Anarchism is a philosophy on life, suggesting that opposition to the state is like saying that an objectivist is anyone who contends that there is an objective basis for morality, are fundamentalist christians objectivists?
One of the most fundamental tenets of anarchism is the non-agression principle, which states that all forms of violence, other than in self defence, are illegitimate and so
Workers' militias are not a state. They do not have a monopoly on force. The distinction is between mutualism and collectivism. The state is a collectivist institution. The cooperative is a mutualist institution, you are not obliged to give but if you don't give you cannot take. There is nothing to stop an individualist living his "ideal" life in this situation. This is not the case in a bourgeois democracy.
In a communism I think cooperatives would be like mini-states for their members. This is better than centralised government as nobody has absolute power, people will have more say over the things that directly affect them.
Anyway, it's been good to talk to you. I've been debating BNP members the last few days and it makes a pleasant change to talk to someone who can string a sentence together and doesn't call me a race traitor for not wanting to deport all immigrants and set up labour camps.
Hey, thanks. I find Youtube cumbersome for textual debates though. It isn't Usenet, after all. Do you have a video cam? Maybe we could do a video debate. I'll probably put it on a different account, since I have started dedicating this account to experiments with Blender. But if you post a vid, share it with me, and I'll take a shot at opposing you in video.
I know what you mean, the 500 charcter limit and the way comments are displayed make it virtually impossible.
Unfortunately I do not have a webcam. I have been meaning to get one for about a year now, mainly so that I can make political videos to put on here. When I finally get around to it I'll be sure to let you know.
I wouldn't call it a, "historical relic," since Ernst Rohm, the head of the Brownshirts was an avowed socialist and he was the number three guy in the Party until his purge in the Night of the Long Knives. As Marx supposedly put it, antisemitism is the, "socialism of the stupid." The hatred of the Jews in the West has much of its base in the hatred for the bourgeoisie. Ever read "The Merchant of Venice?" Anyway, the Nazis are a special case, since they are primarily about hating Jews.
Yes, thee was a leftwing of the Nazi Party, headed by Rohm & the Strasser brothers, Gregor & Otto. Hitler, to placate the conservative army brass, had Gregor killed in the Night of the Long Knives along with Rohm...Otto survived. Hitler then made his famous "no second revolution" statement, meaning the Nazis would not be like the commies...they would allow private property, the church, etc.
I read about this earlier this evening whilst writing an essay on fascism for my A2 government class. The first thing that went through my head was "wow, America is displaying every single one of these..."
Thecuregalore94 2 weeks ago
I LOLd at this video. The pointy-headed academic who came up with these arbitrary "characteristics of fascism" has obviously failed to study the real characteristics of fascism. He was just trying to smear the Bush Administration (I wonder if he's willing to claim the same things about the Obama Administration). Only the mentally and morally deficient people would characterize the USA as "fascist."
KonradAdenauerJr 2 months ago
this video's "points" are tailored towards calling america fascist
america has an increasing number of fascist trends right now, but fascism is more of a process, and people like this are a part of that process
by inaccurately labeling and describing fascism you open the door to ridicule of people who would do so where it actually exists and talk about the aspects of it one might be practicing now
this means you are engaging and administering to demagoguery yourselves
and there is no excuse.
noobler9 2 months ago
@noobler9 in short this is sound bite demagoguery itself, a far cry from the lofty complex discussions of what one might wish to happen and how one might be able to achieve it, that is what the founding fathers of the USA, and numerous politicians who explained and discussed how fascism occurs and what it means and what usually happens within them and during their rise + fall while he might shout about how he loves democracy he is not participating in such a manner as to actually encourage it
noobler9 2 months ago
@noobler9 in even shorter terms
"hypocrit"
noobler9 2 months ago
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Doesn't matter what you say. Americans deny the definition of fascsim. And rather point fingers at others. Like Iran.
Ruttie2 2 months ago
Hell, you forgot disarming the public. And Suppression of Labor? The word Nazi is an abbreviation of the National Socialist German Workers Party. As for suppression of the Arts and Intellectuals, liberals are the ones doing that. Then they scream how the "other party" is "suppressing" said categories because they are not throwing massive government subsidies at them. Rigging elections? Which organization has racked up quite a few voter registration related felonies? ACORN.
CRTV1982 3 months ago
@CRTV1982 The Nazis made unions illegal, they were right wing corportatists. ACORN was vindicated, but after it had been destroyed.
frankftw 1 month ago
pretty pathetic video. but then, so are libturds.
uzimodem 3 months ago
LOL this needs to be on SNL.
usaeagle1776 3 months ago 2
I am a fascist I guess you would say because I agree with every one of the points of fascism.
Guitarzan94 3 months ago
Fascism is about acting as a family unit, not this bullshit. Deliberative democracy solves some of your personal issues with fascism.
Adeikov 3 months ago
clear fucking bullshit propoganda
tanker0wns1 3 months ago
PLUS how about an "Obama Flash", since HE is who the Conservatives need to defeat in 2012! Kind of counterproductive to continually attack Conservatives who disagree with you. If you spent 1/2 the energy revealing Obama & his Soros run govt., you may just accomplish something. All you are doing here is attacking those who don't care for Paul. Way to run a "Pro-Paul" campaign...insult and talk down to those you should try to persuade to join you in your campaign. Just who is ignorant here?!
Astrocatlady 3 months ago
My comment was meant for TrueConservative...I'm very tired and I didn't mean to respond to myself (obviously). lol That's why I double posted. Sorry about that.
Astrocatlady 3 months ago
free to be morally wrong !
DecencyPOLICE 3 months ago
why are the good people of America silent. let's look and listen perhaps itl make it clear who controls America.
bigpurple100 3 months ago
Wait a second, some of those 14 points are good !!! E.G. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in one's nation. Maybe the maker of the video could make a video about marxism, now there's an evil concept.
ARMIreland 3 months ago
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Nationalism as the norm in USA hell no! What USA has is (often stupid) patriotic loyalty to their government and thanks to Ron Paul even some LOYALTY to the American constitution.
Real nationalism is loyalty to the volk and their ancestral land. Not to any leader or government. (That’s secondary) USA had until the 60s some form of nationalism with their Anglo-Saxon culture and shared European ancestry that in concert created a nation by Europeans under god.
Carpediem8110101 3 months ago
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Carpediem8110101 3 months ago
THANKS!
DecencyPOLICE 3 months ago
the (self-) deception of usa is that they were founded on a somehow progressive/egalitarian spirit. but indeed the british settlers on the east coast were even more imperialistic and selfish than their motherland.
zobielamouche1 4 months ago 2
@zobielamouche1 George Washington (English General) sworn to the thrown of england.
Paul Revere was a free mason. I don't know much more than that. To me, that says it all.
Oh I almost forgot. 100% of alaska's oil is sold to asia. The profits from that oil go to the london bank!
BP drilling in united states waters....... Yep, I've heard enough.
a2zhandi 3 months ago
Very well put!! :)
Peace out.
nssaxis 4 months ago
Fascism - root word Fasces
an ancient Roman symbol of power carried by lictors in front of magistrates; a bundle of sticks featuring an axe, indicating the power over life and death. Before the Italian fascists adopted the fasces, the symbol had been used by Italian political organizations of various political ideologies (ranging from socialist to nationalist), called Fascio ("leagues") as a symbol of strength through unity.
Why are they hanging on the walls of the US Congress?
SuspiciousPatriot 4 months ago
America's population is made up from the descendants of immigrants from all over the world. Most of them were trying to escape from despotism, war or poverty. Now America transforms into the mother of tyrannies that our ancestors feared. Creativity is where salvation lies. A redemptive dawn awaits!
mark32811 4 months ago
I like how almost all of these fit perfectly.
Purianite 4 months ago
Geesh, sounds more like what we have NOW in this Admin! Talk about a "dictator"! Bleah....
Astrocatlady 4 months ago
@Astrocatlady Obama and Bush are both hands of the same puppet.
TheTrueConservative 4 months ago
@TheTrueConservative Okay, sorry, but I read that site and it's nothing I haven't already heard before (several times). Please, please tell me you are not a Ron Paul follower! He'd have us be helpless...thinks it OKAY for Iran to have nukes??!! Come on, folks. This country is so very far left and so very far right...Beck was right! Soon you meet in the middle! Some strange place that I cannot even fathom. God Bless you all and carry on. I cannot ID with any of this. I want a strong U.S.
Astrocatlady 3 months ago
@Astrocatlady You are a hypocrite to the highest degree if you believe the US can have nukes and Iran can't. You don't believe in sovereignty.
TheTrueConservative 3 months ago
@TheTrueConservative And YOU are drinking Koolaid, if YOU think it's ok for that raving mad Ajad & Iran to have nukes! Are you serious??!! Remember, to them WE are Satan #1. What, if Ron Paul is in office they won't use the nukes? Why is that? PLUS, he can't get a single person in Congress to vote with him! HOW will he get Congress to work with his loopy azz?? He is the Right version of Socialist Bernie Sanders. Both nuts! Carry on...I have nothing further to add. I agree to disagree.
Astrocatlady 3 months ago
@Astrocatlady Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not even in charge of Iran. The Supreme Leader is, then comes in the General Council, then Ahmainejad. We can't do anything to Iran unless our national security in threatened, which there is no evidence to prove that there is. If our security is threatened, Ron Paul will act. What we don't need is another war to nation build another money pit in the middle east. As for your other comments, I will just *sigh.* Ignorance is bliss.
TheTrueConservative 3 months ago
@TheTrueConservative Unfortunately, with a nuclear attack, it would be a tad late for "Ron Paul to act". AND they have stated (the Mullahs) that in order to bring out the "12th Iman" who is currently living in well, according to those INSANE folks, Iran NEEDS to bring bloodshed to the "infidels". And YES, I DO know the politcal breakdown of Iran....how insulting you are! Pretty damn full of yourself, aren't you?! Man oh man, way to gain support for Paul! Insult everyone! SIGH!!!!! LOL
Astrocatlady 3 months ago
@Astrocatlady This took a sharp turn into LaLaLand. The last Dem I voted for was Clinton & I DO mean LAST. Obama makes Bill look Conservative! This Admin is VERY scary (READ..don't follow ANY news)! Newt is the one who can take on Obama....eat him up in a debate (no teleprompter). Romney (Dem-Lite),Paul(scary-thinks ok for Iran to have nuke),Bachmann loopy,Perry/Cain gone. I wanted West, but now Newt it is! He helped clean up Carter's mess, so has experience AND it is sorely needed!!
Astrocatlady 3 months ago
@TheTrueConservativeThis took a sharp turn into LaLaLand. The last Dem I voted for was Clinton & I DO mean LAST. Obama makes Bill look Conservative! This Admin is VERY scary (READ..don't trust ANY news)! Newt is the one who can take on Obama...will eat him up in a debate (no teleprompter). Romney (Dem-Lite),Paul(scary-thinks ok for Iran to have nuke),Bachmann loopy,Perry/Cain gone. I wanted West, but now Newt it is! He helped clean up Carter's mess, so has experience AND it is sorely needed!!
Astrocatlady 3 months ago
Wow....... I knew all liberals where douchbags but this guy steps it up a level
heightz5155 4 months ago
Characteristic # 15: All Fascist Countries have an eagle as the symbol of their country.
Dan4CW 7 months ago
I am the one who recorded and edited the audio portion of the Malloy Show.
Eric did the video portions and added the song from "Cabaret".
SpitfireOFatj 7 months ago
Although America is falling down the wrong path and, and Bush was a leader of anti-free policies this video is still flawed. You see all you do is attack the Neo Cons who yes are war mongering asswholes but still the other party is just as harmful to our freedoms. We must understand that MAINSTREAM leaders of both parties do not have our best interests at heart. It is not just one or the other it is both working against US.
GODBLESSUSA100 8 months ago
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FASCISM IS HIDDEN RASSISM BECAUSE MONEY IS ALSO INVOLVED , ABOUT THE BYBEL KARPERVIS.TRIPOD.COM ABOUT BLOODLINE'S {AFTER 8000 YEARS EVOLUTION}
SnazzyService 8 months ago
that about sums up george bush in a nut shell, obama needs to be more liberal, i know the gop, is keeping him down some, but he needs to fight the fascist right wing, in this country, the gop tea party is the modern day version of the fascist movement, only with cheney as their hitler
whedonfreak976 9 months ago
Lies. This country has never been fascist. Maybe right-wing sometimes, but NOT fascist.
Jaildale 9 months ago
@Jaildale read about Benito Mussolinis domestic policies and come back and tell me how they are different from Obama and Bush. Fascism is about the merger o corporate and state powers ie Big Business controlling Big Government and the people footing the bill, read up and disprove this.
rampage241 9 months ago
And Obama just continues it... Ron Paul 2012! End it!
LibertarianChristian 9 months ago 2
@LibertarianChristian HAHA fuck Ron Paul, that's exactly what we need another old white racist from texas. Stewart Alexander 2012!
IORNation 8 months ago
@LibertarianChristian And to think, you have "Libertarian" in your username... Ron Paul, you have to be fucking joking. Also, wake up son, the Bible is bullshit.
FmMan33 8 months ago
@FmMan33 yeah not joking, you should see his voting record and actually hear what he believes and stop listening to mainstream media. The bible is a testimony to Jesus, he is Lord and the only one with power over death.
LibertarianChristian 8 months ago
@LibertarianChristian Well, continue living in your fairy tale, just try not to let it influence your politics.
FmMan33 8 months ago
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@LibertarianChristian Ron Paul Supports the corporate power is protected. That is the center of fascism.
biguy617 2 months ago
@LibertarianChristian IF Ron Paul gets elected and IF he is really willing to keep his promises (politicians are generally professional liars), he will be killed. Ron Paul or any other cult figure is simply not enough to change the current political system.
137P0359997 2 months ago
What argument can we possibly think of so that we might disagree?
FNX604 1 year ago
Prescott Bush was a supporter of Hitler for years and even during WW2.Check out his involvment in the 1933 coup attempt on FDR.Bush along with GM,US Steel,Goodyear, Chase Bank and others planned to install a fascist regime in the USA.
themeaningoflife38 1 year ago
Thankyou this was very helpful
phoebus6336 1 year ago
Allow me to say that if America was indeed fascist the baffon who produced this bilge would end up simply missing... The number one ingredient for a fascist govt is the presence of a dictator... As little as I care for Pres Obama I can't call him a dictator. Especially given the fact the American people pulled all his teeth last November. You gotta love democracy in action... Ronald Reagan rules... Go America!!
jklsr55 1 year ago
@jklsr55 yeah because fascism only looks like what we see in movies about nazis...lol
Darusdei 1 year ago
@jklsr55 it's only a matter of time until he's amassed enough power to do that. He already can order hits on US citizens, go to war without without asking congress ie bombing Libya and how many countries have been invaded/bombed in the last 10 years?
rampage241 9 months ago
this guy got number 10 completely wrong. Mussolini was actually a syndicalist. And Fox News is not the only news outlet. Just because there happens to be one outlet that has right-leaning bias doesn't mean the entire media is controlled. Everything else I agree with.
diaverde09 1 year ago
@mmhhmmkay
Umm ... have you been watching the news lately? You really think dissent is tolerated in the US? How is it that US politicians are calling for the assassination of a person who hasn't broken any laws? [cough] Fascism
[cough]!
Place "Naomi Wolf American Tears" in Google and have a read about dissent in the US.
arthurneddysmith 1 year ago
@StoogeWatcher
You live in an imaginary world where all of the "Left" are communists or terrorists or both ... with red horns growing out of their foreheads.
Stop tuning in to Fox and perhaps you'll have an idea of what the world is really like.
arthurneddysmith 1 year ago
ya fascist cunts!!!!!!!
bush couln't even speak the english language the fuckin spermdumpster!! :@
i hate fascists....and so duz god
dpvirk 1 year ago
This video completely left out one of the most important concepts of fascism: absence of dissent. Americans, even this video, are allllll about their RIGHT to dissent. In a fascist regime, dissent is absolutely intolerable. Dissatisfaction is made known through the government channels and then government officials are held responsible. See that happening anytime soon in America?
mmhhmmkay 1 year ago
THIS IS ALL THE BEST WAY! LONG LIVE FASCISM!
FascismIsTheAnswer 1 year ago
I disagree
anikinippon 1 year ago
notice the cunt who mades this does not say shit about obama. Notice also that most people that were ant-bush are pro-obama now.
zackgonnasurvivenwo 1 year ago
@zackgonnasurvivenwo
I believe that this DvD was made before Obama was elected. Obama is just part of the same group. Obama continues Bush's policies of war and tax cuts for the rich.
hypnyxx 1 year ago
@zackgonnasurvivenwo This was made long before anyone knew who the hell Obama was.
StoogeWatcher 1 year ago
Democrats are fascists. They are anti-Jewish, anti-Christian, pro-abortion, pro-Sharia. Fascist Democrats also support rape hoaxes, rap music, quota systems, and brown supremacist La Raza. Fascist Democrats also support Islamists who want to criminalize any criticize of suicide bombers, honor killings, or Sharia law.
StoogeWatcher 1 year ago
@StoogeWatcher
they are not anti-jewish....
how the fuck can they be anti-christian when the majority of them are christian u twat!
pro-sharia???? do u even know what sharia law is?? why the fuck would christian democrats be supportive of islamic extremism.
democrats support islamists?? u cunt...the president who gave the mujahideen in afghanistan over 3 billion dollars to fight the soviets was republican....note: 4 of the mujahideen's main leaders were islamic extreminsts!
BOOM!!!!!!
dpvirk 1 year ago
@dpvirk Liberals so blame Jews for everything. Have you ever seen one of their "peace rallies" where they attack Israel while defending Hamas. Liberals would roll out the welcome mat for radical Islam while suing to get rid of Christianity. Leftists believe we're not sensitive enough to Islamic terrorists like Nidal Hasan or Carlos Bledsoe.
StoogeWatcher 1 year ago
@StoogeWatcher
dude the fact that they may be more sympathetic 2 Palestine doesn't mean their anti-jewish. i live in ireland and i'm sure you've heard of the troubles in the north of ireland? well thats been over 4 years but to this day...catholic areas would fly palestinian flags because they can relate their cause, while prods usually fly isreali flags because they feel its their right to be there. But neither side is against the other if ya know what i mean??
dpvirk 1 year ago
I wish I could find some stuff on fascism that is not bias, until I can find that video I can never truly know what fascism is all about
kaine22111 1 year ago
Bush was a pretty good lad, imo.
FarmStats 1 year ago
I think that these 14 points are abstract and non objective. Fascist is revolutionary shit, anyways.
The more accurate definition is: Autoritharian and statizing regime, which claims to the state the control of economy and society alleging nationalist purposes.
It's simple.
I believe that this definition was made to attack conservatives.
arribah 1 year ago
@arribah also privatization did he say that? people just call it corporatism now
isawanangel2 1 year ago
@cayetanoluis You're taking way too many Blue pills, and washing them down with kool-aid, if you know what I mean =)
atrueamerican1 1 year ago
Today it seems that everywhere I look, I see fascism. :-(
tubetib 1 year ago
@cayetanoluis i dnt mind reading something biased most things are. robert paxton doesn't sound to biased. i like books that arent afraid to write abt the good and the bad of something.
thewaterwillcome 1 year ago
@cayetanoluis i will read it, is there any other place you get your info from? plato's contribution to fascism was the idea that democracy is inherently flawed and destined to fail, he believed that the state should be ruled by all powerful "philosopher kings".
thewaterwillcome 1 year ago
@cayetanoluis ...not want to be bulldozed by the blitz so he allied himself with hitler when the nazis invaded northern italy, after that Mussolini's government was rn by the SS he was just a figurehead. a cowardice move on his part and his final mistake.
thewaterwillcome 1 year ago
@cayetanoluis he began as a hardcore marxist, he used to carry around a copy of the manifesto, he began to dissagree with marxists after he got involved in political groups, he stoped believeing the it was abt a class war and that it was abt the various political groups that fought with each other. once he stoped beleiving in international socialism he becam an enemy to the Communists and felt the threatened italy, also he witnessed the military power of hitler and like france did...
thewaterwillcome 1 year ago
@atrueamerican1 no man hes not a socialist, he dosnt know what he is, most ppl dont. misunderstanding get perpetuated so easily when ppl dont research things for themselves. I am a socialist, but the tea party folks have rallied real working americans in a way that socialism cant anymore. political affiliation doesn't really matter, all that matters is taking the control of america away from the corporate interests and banks and back into the hands of actual americans, then we decide politics.
thewaterwillcome 1 year ago
@thewaterwillcome Today's Democratic Party in the US is not unlike the National Socialist Party of Pre-WWII Germany. They are Socialists, and wish to Nationalize their ideals. Funny thing about Socialism is that it requires Central Planning, and Central Planning requires Central Authority. Central Authority = Fascism
More importantly, the Federal Gov't has no authority to impose it upon us, however our leaders have usurped the Constitution and have become our Rulers.
atrueamerican1 1 year ago
@atrueamerican1 the national socialist party formed paramilitary armies and beat and killed dissenters in the streets. they created a party outline unified by the hatred of all non aryans. it was not central control it was absolute control. some of the far left DNC seek socialized democracy, but real socialism is not on the democratic left-right political scale, it is a religious ideology. democracy means we choose, if there is fascism in america it is by our own design and consent.
thewaterwillcome 1 year ago
@cayetanoluis Your comment doesn't even make any sense. What are you trying to say or imply? I don't get it....
atrueamerican1 1 year ago
bushes america and america in general is more similar to anarcho-capitalism than fascism.
thewaterwillcome 1 year ago
fascism and religion are not intertwined, fascism is a religion that believes in the state instead of a god, fascism is usually opposed to traditional religions. under fascism in italy women were given the right to vote and hold office (one of the first european countries to do so) all labor was unionized, child labor banned, 8 hr work day, min retirement age, and minimum wage established, and 85% of all profits of military contracts were seised to stop corporations from profiting from war
thewaterwillcome 1 year ago
@ sunofthe cea. Well put - So lets JUST focus on the JUSTIFIED hatred of the USA. That alone will keep us busy studying for years. The endless unwarranted bombings, the institutionalized racism, the proxy and direct wars, the forced instability thru the World Bank etc, the corporatism like NO ONE else's corporatism, you name it.
DigitalAnalogNoise 1 year ago
Formerly a follower of the doctrine of Fascism, a vicious political philosophy of a militarist totalitarianism. Nowadays, the word Fascist refers to anyone who annoys you, even slightly. “Fascizzle my nizzle!”~ Snoop Dogg on Fascism. There is much unjustified hatred in the world. There is unjustified hatred of the USA. Much of this arises from the victimisation complex that sweeps much of mankind. Whoever is in charge, whoever is powerful or successful will also be hated. Inferiority complex.
sunofthecea 1 year ago
"When fascism arrives in America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross" Sinclair Lewis
jobw87 1 year ago
This vid says it all.
CDHIgnorance 1 year ago 2
awesome video... it is so true... have a teriffic weekend.... amunra.....
amun8isis 1 year ago 2
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RAMPANT SEXISM! What a fucking joke this is!! LOL!! #6 CONTROLLED MASS MEDIA!!! And they point to Fox News!!! HaHahahaha! All Fox has done is loosen the grip by the left wing "CONTROLLED MASS MEDIA" FOR DECADES!!!!! Hows Obama THE CORPORATIST working out for you?
umadumLib 1 year ago
Outstanding! bush is the worst Non-Elected creature to ever install himself in office. He should still be tried and if convicted , hung for War Crimes, or handed over to the Iraqis for justice.
mccainisthrough 1 year ago 16
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@mccainisthrough Why am i bothering to debate this ten years later? Ok, Bush was not elected? God are you people dumb. The popular vote went to Gore, but guess what, THATS NOT HOW PRESIDENTS ARE ELECTED IN THIS COUNTRY! If you don't like it, change it, but not in the middle of an election. GORE LOST! Wahh!!! With a straight face, tell me Gore would have actually been a good president... The guy is a bigger joke than Bush was. A couple of these 14 things hold some water, the rest are just crap.
umadumLib 1 year ago
@umadumLib
bush was NOT elected, he was installed by a gop court after filing bush v Gore, a case that HALTED recounting the votes of American citizens in a state where bush's campaign head, harris a POS, was the person who certified the election results, which was against bush. bush's first cousin, jeb, john ellis bush, was the POS who went on fox comedy news spreading the lie that Gore didn't win the state of Florida, which he did, easily. You're an idiot. Go away Moron!
mccainisthrough 1 year ago 12
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@mccainisthrough Look, i can tell you're mindnumbingly ignorant, but Gore lost. I won't waste my time sending you another message after this. You can't just recount the votes in only the counties that would be more likely to benefit you, and do it as many times as it takes to get you in. The courts ruled on what the law was prior to the election. You DUMBFUCKS want everything to change to benefit you after the votes were cast. WAHHH!!!!! You whiney pussies!
umadumLib 1 year ago
@umadumLib
You're clearly a moron, it's painfully obvious, sententious too. Your condescension only serves as further proof of your ineptitude and inability to comprehend sarcasm, and facts. You can explain yourself all you like, but you're best served by doing it on a couch in a good psychiatrists office. Now move along Cletus, your possum roast with get cold.
mccainisthrough 1 year ago 5
@mccainisthrough
JEB is GW's younger brother, not his first cousin.
AustinBrando 1 year ago
@mccainisthrough Bush is just an unfortunate figurehead, send Greenspan, Cheney.
thewaterwillcome 1 year ago
@mccainisthrough Fascism was not religious nor conservative. And its final goal was the substitution of the army by a popular militia. Among other things. Points 9, 10 and 11 are plain stupid. Mussolini introduced the 8 hours working day and old age pensions and banned child labor. Corporations were not protected but controlled by the government. And fascism was obsessed with art.
xaviqaz 5 months ago
So patriotism is bad and al qaeda is just a scape goat? And how the hell was Bush a sexist- o and u seriously believe REPUBLICANS control the media? This a joke?
sts221 1 year ago
thought this site would have alot better.
TheTerroristbush 2 years ago
I don't understand why this was tagged offensive.
torture happened. don't like it? get angry, get involved, don't just cover your eyes and pretend it doesn't effect you.
bolicsoundz 2 years ago 11
protecting hipocracy ;-)
PNACATTACKdotCOM 2 years ago
@bolicsoundz TRUTH IS THE GREATEST ENEMY OF FASCIST etc STATE - and HYPOCRATE violant nationalist FASCISTS
PNACATTACKdotCOM 1 year ago
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by the way, the nazis were no fascists.
galuiot 2 years ago
Yes thy were. ever srtudied history?
Try it. Even hear name Nazi-Fascism.
Go to wikipedia as an example- study - and you will become wiser ;-)
PNACATTACKdotCOM 2 years ago
fascism is an italian phenomena... everything else is unscientific.
Today Fascism is a word that is used to abuse whatever one likes to insult, nothing more.
galuiot 2 years ago
fascism has evolved to the point where it can be defined as the people completely losing power to the executives. usually with some advent of violence and suppression by the state.
itzahazylife 2 years ago 2
¤ Definition of FASCISM:
"A system of GOVERNMENT that exercises a DICTATORSHIP of the EXTREME RIGHT - typically through the MERGING of STATE and BUSINESS LEADERSHIP, TOGETHER with BELLIGERENT NATIONALISM"
~ The American Heritage Dictionary
PNACATTACKdotCOM 2 years ago
yes, which inevitably results in the people losing all power to government.
itzahazylife 2 years ago 2
Yes. ANd not goverment by the people and fro the people - but for the few and by the few. Rich and wealthy. I realized that Stalin did Communist USSR what Fascist have done during last 100 years for Capitalism. Socializing (negavilely way - not related to SOCIALISM itself, but opposite of that) all for themselves. And Grabbing power for themselves.
PNACATTACKdotCOM 2 years ago
yes..i believe that in the US, socialism is being used as an outlet to eventually form a fascism..it's the perfect bait and switch tactic..because socialism is a great idea. it's subtle, and revolves around equality for all..it's very inviting..what better way to push fascism than thru socialism?
itzahazylife 2 years ago
SOCIALISM is misused in USA by Republican far right wing nazis (SS USA), fascist related to FAR RIGHT wing (SA USA) obama nad Democratic party. NO different competion . Just think about Like 2 mobsters - competing who leads 4th reich - just like once in 3rd reich. And 2006-2009 was 'Night of the Long Knives' in USA -except it was (long) Years of the blunt knives marriage. Socialsim is not related to Fascism at all.
PNACATTACKdotCOM 2 years ago
i know socialism isn't related to fascism, but isn't it possible to establish fascism thru the use of socialism?
itzahazylife 2 years ago
I have to study socialism. I think if somebody does that - He/she is fake socialist. You'll see FASICSTS are the MOST SELFISH and greed people. I have watched lot of socialist (but not communists style socialists) videos - and what is COMMON to them - and I noticed that miost of them were very good decient people and moreover most UNSELFISH people. Noam Chomsky is very much like them even he's not exactly like them. Watch John pilger and you'll is the greatness of humanity and will to do good..
PNACATTACKdotCOM 2 years ago
And remember that people like Chavez are Socialists - who wnat to SOCIALIZE oil ptofits for people of venezuela by NATIONALIZINg - juts like NATIONALIST Mossadeq tried to do once -and was blamed as communist by FASCIST terorist staes like USA and UK -same who owns today most of Global media conglomerates. Or FASCIST Australian Nazi-War Criminal KEY Nazi-Propagandist Rupert Murdoch who owns alsmost 1/3 of world media. No different Terorist killer like after WWII hanged head of Der Stürmer.
PNACATTACKdotCOM 2 years ago
My icon John pilger as an exaple is a Scocialist who have revealed lies of Fascists, nazi-Fascist and communists. During my research I realized how our western "democracies" were biggest bullshit artist during cold war. Expecially fascist core of NATO staes -all NWO terrorist states today. If you read even from Wikipedia - you will notice that there are actuially forms of SOCIALISM which aren't supporting communist tyranny at all. And people in USA are on pursosely fead with disinformation.
PNACATTACKdotCOM 2 years ago
WORD SOCIALISM is used for purpose of FEAR MONGERING (with DISINFORMATION) to ensure FASCISTS and NAZIS like in USA more power - like Hitler did. EXAMPLE: Saying Obama is Socialist - when Obama ACTUALLY is Nazi-Fascist -= far right wing 'system'/idiology.
PNACATTACKdotCOM 1 year ago
@PNACATTACKdotCOM
Well, I did agree with you but Obama is not Nazi Facist.
Eskimoinsane 1 year ago
I see you do not know Present or past history well.
In time you will see facts yourself...
PNACATTACKdotCOM 1 year ago
In FASCIST MUSSOLINI there were also fascist jews. Today there are Nazi-Fascist jews all over -in USA israel etc - they are better known as racist Zionists.
PNACATTACKdotCOM 2 years ago
Viva Chavez
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
me hate books! me go watch rock of love now!!!!!
fightingirishfan08 2 years ago
Fascism is just fine. Get over it.
tommysch 2 years ago
Bush is to blame just as much as Obama now. Barack Obama is a facsist and socialist at heart. Republicans AND Democrats are way too Left leaning!
etol56 2 years ago
Obama is fascist AND socialist? ...Do you know the meaning of the two words?... They are completely opposed to one another... nice job genius
Vincere100 2 years ago 7
Ever heard of Ernst Rohm? He was the leader of the Nazi SA, and for his arm of the Nazi party, the word "Socialist" in "National Socialist" meant something.
In any case, when you get past the rhetoric and just examine the economics, they are quite similar. In the Doctrine of Fascism, Mussolini lays out the goal of fascism as the creation of a single monopolistic organism-like corporate state, which is identical to State ownership of the means of production (socialism.)
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
The socialist part of the name national socialist party was an historical relic from the days, before hitler, when the party had been a left leaning workers' party.
Socialism is NOT state control of the means of production. Stalin was NOT a socialist.
In socialism the means of production are controlled by the workers.
Fascism was devoloped as a means of STOPPING socialism.
Anarchists are socialists, where's the state tyranny there? (Anarchocapitalism is an
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
oxymoron).
You have clearly never read ANY socialist writings. Marx intended that the state could only be used in a transitionary period, it has to ultimately be destroyed and be replaced by workers' cooperatives.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
Oh, I have. And it is clear that the trasitionary phase (i.e. socialism) to the utopia that is communism is intended to be repressive. It isn't called the tyranny of the proletariat for nothing. And the utopia can't be forged without beating the selfishness of the individual out of him. It takes a long time to create New Socialist Man.
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
No, it's not intended to be repressive. It is understood that the priveliged classes will always attempt to use violence in order to reatain said priveliges. The state is needed in order to organise against the counter-revolution. The Spanish civil war is an excellent example, Franco (a fascist) orchestrated a coup in reaction to the left wing coalition government, in particular its communist and anarchist elements. The weakness of the Spanish government, allied
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
to the right wing Stalin's need to pacify his capitalist allies by manipulating the Spanish communists into liquidating the Trotskyists and Anarchists, was the main reason for the defeat of the republic. Franco was seen by the ruling classes in Britain as a hero, defending their way of life.
It's not called the tyrranny of the proletariat at all. It's the dictatorship of the proletariat. Meaning that the proletarians are allowed to dictate the way the worplaces they work in are
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
run. It's not dictatorship in the accepted sense of the word.
There i can be no utopia. Only the most vulgar socialist could imagine that there will ever be a final victory for the masses.
Socialism (true socialism, not the right wing ideology of Stalin that pretended to socialism) is the most democratic system imaginable. Not only is social policy decided in a democratic manner, so is the economy.
Socialism is not about being selfless, it's about the workers benefitting from the fruits of
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
their labour, without the exploitation of capital. We do not reject capitalism because we think that the fruits of a man's labour should be shared with parasites, we reject it because we think they should not. (The difference between capital and markets is a fundamental one, we do not reject the idea of fair trade).
I can only imagine that you have read the writings of Joe McCarthy or Ayn Rand on socialism.
The pretence to socialism in the Nazi party
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
was exactly that. Marx called antisemetism the socialism of the stupid precisely because it was used as a tool to divide and manipulate the working classes. If they see Jews, rather than class privelige, as the problem they will focus their energies that way.
Fascism is an extreme form of conservativism or, to put it another way, conservativism is diet fascism.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
Interestingly, according to the Hitler, it was the reverse. The Jews, who had taken control through laissez-faire liberalism, created bolshevism to siphon off the natural resentment of the aryan proles.
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
Yes, but Hitler was a nutcase.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
Ernst Rohm was the leader of the Nazi left-wing. The party used a lot of socialist demogoguery (a reundancy?) during its climb to power. Really, Hitler's economic policies were Keynesian. The first Keynesian, he has been called.
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
Socialism is not just an ecomic system. There are well defined social policies too. In order to be classed as a member of the left you cannot have the right wing, reactionary, social policy Hitlet had.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
Trotsky was just as totalitarian as Stalin. So singling out Stalin here is absurd. Machiavelli pointed out the advantage in having a worse tyrant take over for a while, so the prince looks good by comparison, and the post-Stalin USSR used this too.
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
Trotsky was never the leader of the USSR. He was not a totalitarian at all. Have you read his theory of permanent revolution? He argued that we missout bourgeos democracy and dictatorship, provided it was an international movement.
It was Trotsky who pointed out that Stalinist Russia was state capitalist, not socialist. In my opinion the Soviet experement was a disaster from that point on.
In my opinion one of the biggest problems
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
was the violent white counter-revolution. This left them with very few workers so the people who were supposed to be running the country had been killed. It also meant that Lennin had to be more of a strong-man leader. In my opinion the party was doomed the later days of Lenin's leadership onwards. Let me make that very clear, I am not an apologist for the USSR.
Lenin had said, in a suppressed manuscript, that Stalin could not be allowed to remain in
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
the party because he was getting too power hungry, shortly before his death. Trotsky an Lenin disagreed on many things, Trotsky was more of a libertarian and further to the left, having joined the Bolsheviks from the Mensheviks late on. But his opinions were always valued and it was assumed that he would take over. Trotsky was exiled and eventually murdered after launching the fourth international. He was considered the biggest threat to Stalin, greater than the west, because
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
the people trusted him and he could, possible, have persuaded them that Stalin was not a true communist and was betraying them, setting up a state-capitalist system.
The only time Trotsky could ever have been described as a totalitarian was during the war with the whites. But he really had no choice, he was no more of a dictator than Winston Churchill.
In my opinion the people who carried the spirit of marxism were Rosa Luxemburg, Leon
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
Trotsky and, later on, Tony Cliff.
Lessons have been learned from the Soviet disaster, the main one being that we always have to be honest with ourselves, we must not pretend a bad system is working just because we want it to be, as many communists did. (The tendency I belong to is a Trotskyist one, heavily influenced by Luxemburg, and we had predicted what was going to happen, almost from Lenin's death.) We must never relinquish democratic power for what we are told is the
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
greater good, a lesson that we shouldn't really have had to learn the hard way.
What I do know, however, is the US is not run by fascists. It's your average imperial, capitalist society. I can see the recession moving them into a less severe form of state capitalism but never fascism; it's hard to subdue an armed populace.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
"And it is clear that the trasitionary phase (i.e. socialism) "
Are you American? It's well known that the Americans have defined political traditions differently, in a manner remeniscent of Orwell's newspeak. (They've persuaded most people that the capitalist mode of production is democratic!)
Socialism is a generic term for all egalitarian social systems, this includes anarchy, communism, market (or keynesian) socialism and several others. Socialism does not necessarily require a state.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
I am using Marx's delineation of the evolution of society from slave state despotism, to liberal bourgeois capitalist to socialism, and then to communism. Socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production, communism is from each according to his need from each according to his ability. Socialism is the bridge to communism, in Marxism. I am aware that socialism is used more generically than that, but it is also a word used by certain Parties for complete state control as well.
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
Socialism is also defined as the ownership of the means of the production by the people generally, not just the workers. The only real world mechanism for such collective ownership is the State. While I agree that anarchocapitalism is untenable, so is anarchosocialism. In anarchy, how would you prevent the exploitation of labor. You can't, because there would be no monopoly on the use of force to prevent it. If there is a monopoly on the use of force, that is a State.
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
It si the common ownership of the means of production, that much is true. But decisions are made by those most affected, ie. the workers.
I did not say that anarchocapitalism was untenable, I said it was anoxymoron. The rejection of capitalism is an essential element of anarchism, as is the rejection of all other systems of hierarchy.
How does a monopoly on the use of force help us? How do we know the monopoly
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
holders will work in the interests of the people (I think it can be demonstrated that they do not)
Under communism we are policed by workers' militias. This balance of force deters its use. If you are likely to incur as much damage as your enemy you will only use the force if it is absolutely necessary.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
So, under communism, instead of being policed by government goons, we'll be policed by union mafia thugs. How is that an improvement? A monopoly on force is a monopoly on force. The first justification for having a State is to prevent a worse one from arising. I disagree with you about anarchocapitalism being an oxymoron, because anarchy merely means "no state." But anarchy is just a vacuum waiting to be filled by a despot. I'll take a liberal bourgeois constitution over union mafia thugs.
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
The political philosophy is more complex than that. Anarchists reject all forms of hierarchy. (Read Bakunin, Proudhon or Goldman).
Workers' militia are not "mafia thugs". They're the workers themselves, not representatives of the workers. As it stands the working classes have no police. The rich and ruling class have a police force but they know who their bosses are. You keep telling yourself that the parasites that steal the money you earn are protecting you. That's what they want to hear.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
I am aware of the point of view of Bakunin, and Proudhon, as well as Chomsky and Ayers, but that doesn't support the idea that liberal capitalist anarchism is a contradiction in terms, because anarchy merely means, "no state." Worker's militias are really a state anyway. Enforcement implies forcing someone to do something against their will. And, as Max Weber observed, every organization of human beings winds up developing an elite. It is an inevitability of our vulnerability to force.
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
I totally reject the idea that hierarchy and the need for elites is the inevitable result of some flaw in human nature. It is the result of using economic and political systems that make them inevitable. It is in fact inhuman. If you look at the work of the anthropologists who deal with tribal societies there are many without any hierarchy, private property or exploitation of any form. The Aboriginal tribes in Australia are an excellent example, they have been around longer than any "modern"
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
society yet have somehow managed to avoid this "inevitable" development.
Anarchism is a philosophy on life, suggesting that opposition to the state is like saying that an objectivist is anyone who contends that there is an objective basis for morality, are fundamentalist christians objectivists?
One of the most fundamental tenets of anarchism is the non-agression principle, which states that all forms of violence, other than in self defence, are illegitimate and so
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago 2
are all forms of exploitation.
Workers' militias are not a state. They do not have a monopoly on force. The distinction is between mutualism and collectivism. The state is a collectivist institution. The cooperative is a mutualist institution, you are not obliged to give but if you don't give you cannot take. There is nothing to stop an individualist living his "ideal" life in this situation. This is not the case in a bourgeois democracy.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
In a communism I think cooperatives would be like mini-states for their members. This is better than centralised government as nobody has absolute power, people will have more say over the things that directly affect them.
Anyway, it's been good to talk to you. I've been debating BNP members the last few days and it makes a pleasant change to talk to someone who can string a sentence together and doesn't call me a race traitor for not wanting to deport all immigrants and set up labour camps.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
Hey, thanks. I find Youtube cumbersome for textual debates though. It isn't Usenet, after all. Do you have a video cam? Maybe we could do a video debate. I'll probably put it on a different account, since I have started dedicating this account to experiments with Blender. But if you post a vid, share it with me, and I'll take a shot at opposing you in video.
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
I know what you mean, the 500 charcter limit and the way comments are displayed make it virtually impossible.
Unfortunately I do not have a webcam. I have been meaning to get one for about a year now, mainly so that I can make political videos to put on here. When I finally get around to it I'll be sure to let you know.
TheSpineyOne 2 years ago
I wouldn't call it a, "historical relic," since Ernst Rohm, the head of the Brownshirts was an avowed socialist and he was the number three guy in the Party until his purge in the Night of the Long Knives. As Marx supposedly put it, antisemitism is the, "socialism of the stupid." The hatred of the Jews in the West has much of its base in the hatred for the bourgeoisie. Ever read "The Merchant of Venice?" Anyway, the Nazis are a special case, since they are primarily about hating Jews.
hewpiedawg 2 years ago
Yes, thee was a leftwing of the Nazi Party, headed by Rohm & the Strasser brothers, Gregor & Otto. Hitler, to placate the conservative army brass, had Gregor killed in the Night of the Long Knives along with Rohm...Otto survived. Hitler then made his famous "no second revolution" statement, meaning the Nazis would not be like the commies...they would allow private property, the church, etc.
ciraldofan 2 years ago