A-11 Offense

[mrfootballdog]

Forward Passes completed behind the line can have as many downfield receivers and blockers as possible, like screen passes or swing passes or bubble routes. Nothing illegal here at all, just hard to defend

[troyjgrice]

At 1:01 it appears you have 2 illegal men down field on the upper left. Only the end men on the line are eligible. "Covered" (meaning not the end) players cannot advance down field on a pass. One caveat is I'm not sure if illegal man down field applies on a pass behind the line of scrimmage. It would be a nightmare trying to officiate this. Does someone know the rule on forward passes behind the line?

[TomKaren1994]

I didn't learn anything about the A11 here. Looks like poor defense more than anything else.

[RaMpAge746]

I play football for piedmont this offense is the shit our coach made it up Piedmont ftw

[shockwave68516]

I saw Lousiana Tech run something like this against Boise St. on Tuesday. They had 3 down lineman and six receivers. As long as there's 7 guys on the line, it's legal. I'm thinking you need a certain amount of players on each side of the ball though too.

[GUJim100]

@shockwave68516 There is no rule regarding the number of players on each side of the ball. There simply have to be at least seven men on the line. At least five of those seven have to wear a number from 50-79. Regardless of the number, if a player is on the line and has a player to each side of him on the line, then he cannot go down field on a forward pass thrown to a spot beyond the line of scrimmage.

[shockwave68516]

@GUJim100 Meaning like you can't have 6 guys on the left side of the ball and only one on the right.

[GUJim100]

@shockwave68516 If you had six on the left and one on the right, then, including the snapper, that is eight men on the line, which is perfectly legal. AT LEAST seven, not exactly seven, must be on the line. However, with eight men on the line, you lose a potential eligible receiver, as you now only have three men in the backfield instead of four. Only backs and ends can receive a forward pass, and they must also be wearing an eligible number, i.e. 1-49 or 80-99, to do so.

[FlyersBIATCH]

This formation is like in the AFL , lol.

[CerebralPrince10]

Michael Vick (Lefty QB) Vince Young (Righty QB) Reggie Bush (Can run and catch) Brian Westbrook (Can run and catch) Tony Gonzalez (Can block and catch) Jason Witten (Can block and catch) Dallas Clark (Can block and catch) Antonio Gates (Can block and catch) Jeff Saturday (smart center with great footwork) Walter Jones and David Stewart (tackles) Maybe throw in a burner for a deep threat like Lee Evans and you could creative the most versatile ingenius offense ever

[CerebralPrince10]

imagine Vick and Vince lateraling the ball between each other to keep plays alive and spread out the pass rush. Having Bush and Westbrook motioned for reverses and receiving screens. Putting the four versatile tight ends in a position where they can block and still go out for passes. The possibilities are endless

[YouWantMeYouCantPay]

I think the 11 guys on offense should be able to line up whichever way they want and where they want, as long as it's behind the line of scrimmage. it should more of a chess game, and i would love if 11 players on offense could line up whereever they wanted. the competition and the excitement of the game would be enhanced 100x over!

[JARVISPRICE]

mike vick & mcnabb

[Traestar]

Beat me to it, co-sign

[CerebralPrince10]

that would be a genius idea

the problem is that this formation is illegal in the NFL

[troyjgrice]

No its not illegal. NFL only requires 7 men on the line. You can put them anywhere you want. The numbering restrictions will stop you from creating the mismatches though. INeligible linement must be numbered in 50s, 60s, 70s,

[CerebralPrince10]

Exactly, the NFL's restrictions on legal formations makes it so that only a preset five men can go pass the line of scrimmage

[trojanhorse3745]

The A-11 IS illegal. The National Federation of State High School Associations closed the loophole in February. Wikipedia "A-11 offense" if you want to see it for yourself. I played in Iowa and my school used it last year against some of the tougher opponents (we play in the toughest conference of the largest class in the state of Iowa). It is illegal to use, but some coaches are looking for loopholes. again.

[troyjgrice]

Anyone who has any depth of understanding about football knows the difference between a "formation" and an "offense". The A11 "formation" is not illegal per se. It's the last second shifting of the EMOL with nebulous jersey numbers that is illegal as it should be.

[trojanhorse3745]

I can tell you right now that I know more about football than you do. But if you want to be a whiney little hair-splitting bitch about it, I welcome that too.

[whitey432]

@trojanhorse3745 it also says on wikipedia that they changed it so it now abides by the rules.

[troyjgrice]

Another illegal procedure on play starting at 6:43. 'Covered' receiver at bottom of the screen goes out for a pass. this is a very poorly officiated game. Exploiting the rules is your job as a coach. Exploiting dumb officials is unsportsmanlike.

[trojanhorse3745]

not illegal in this formation. Free kick formations have different eligibility rules.

[troyjgrice]

You mean "scrimmage kick formation" not "free kick" formation.

Anyway, please enlighten me. Show me the rule that permits a "covered" player to be an eligible receiver when in a scrimmage kick formation.

[trojanhorse3745]

Yes, scrimmage kick. I know that the Scrimmage Kick eligibility rule (which HAS been changed, in order to outlaw the A-11 formation) used to allow "covered" players on offense catch passes (I've seen one school that ran a fake punt and threw the ball down field to the long snapper for a first). I will try to find specific rules citing this, but if I can't, I'm probably just misinterpreting something, haha.

[troyjgrice]

There's no reason why a snapper can't receive if he is the end man on the line (EMOL). Polecat offense does this. Neither symmetry nor proximity to the snapper is recquired in any formation- just a min of 7 men on the line. The A11 FORMATION has not been outlawed nor should it be. It's not even "new". Tiger Ellison and BYU used forms of it in 50s and 60s.

[troyjgrice]

HS rules allow for ALL scrimmage kick players to release to cover after the snap (it's after the kick in NFL). But if you attempt a pass you will have 2 infractions: 1) illegal man downfield, 2) ineligible receiver.

[troyjgrice]

True A11 is within the framework of the rules IF only EMOLs go out. That is not the case in this video. A11 uses formation shifts to confuse the defense as to who is eligible causing mimatches which is great! Unfortunately, it confuses weak refs as well since there is no numbering limit on receivers in HS like NFL. (That is why linemen must "check in" on tackle eligible plays, making refs aware.)

[troyjgrice]

Illegal Procedure on play starting at 6:15. There are either a) not 7 men on the line or b) 3 'covered' receivers went out for a pass which is illegal. I guess I have no problem with teams exploiting the rules, but blatantly violating them by preying on dumb refs IS unsportsmanlike.

[kllyjrd]

cheap ass offense man coverage outside linebacker blitz we own your ass anyday

[shraderguy]

This is just another formation that defenses will ultimately learn to cover. There was a time when the forward pass was illegal and nobody seems to complain about that anymore. Even after the pass was introduced people were outraged by the introduction of the trips, diamond, Maryland I, and most recently the pistol. This is just another way for teams to minimize their weaknesses on the field. If you have don't have any talented receivers or a weak quarterback you won't run this anyway.

[yoboy82]

I start MLB in college, in a league against srpead offenses. 2 see this offense wouldnt deter me at all. Let the Offensive world do what they have, just means we need better defensive players.

Its like playing linebacker now. Let urlacher or singletary step into todays spread world, theyll get used and abused and smoked like a used blunt. Defense has to adjust. Everyone will have to be able to cover, providing even more athletic defensive players than exist now.

[Mrihatebunnies]

They should make this eligible in the NFL. IF hey did, short pass o mania teams would be godly.

[MORESTAFIO]

how do you give the ball to them. if you throw it to them thats an illigal play. wat if you don't have any good linemen, are you still gonna send them out there and risk getting them injured? i doubt that and if you do your not qualified to be a coach. this offense allows you to take away the risk of injuries and replaces it with touchdowns. like i said stop hating just cuase you didn't think of it first

[wewewe333]

if youre not willing to get injured to win then dont step on the field.

[zapatahawk]

this offense is the shit. it gets every one involved in the action. how do you think offensive linemen feel after every game? they don't even get to touch the ball except the center. this why every one can contribute to the win

[juhsepi]

Spoke like someone that has never played a down at the linemen position ever.

In REAL football, the offense LIVES OR DIES by how effective it's offensive line is.

As a coach I always gave the game ball to the kids in the trenches. Without their protection, you just don't achieve a thing.

[wewewe333]

without linemen, THIS offense does achieve. your scared that if this becomes standard then your fatass grandchildren wont be able to play. you cant even make a solid argument against this offense. the only way an offense is bad is if they dont score. youre clearly a backwards coach. do you coach pop warner?

[juhsepi]

Without linemen this isn't Football. It's high scoring soccer.

Way to be a two year old.

[juhsepi]

In terms of Football. This is blasphemy!

Totally destroys tradition! I would honestly lose interest I think.

[wewewe333]

BLASPHEMY? Get a brain. The tradition of football is to win. If this mickey mouse offense helps them win then so be it. Quit whining just cus something is different. As far as interest goes, it looks like its a hell of a lot more exciting to watch than most hs teams who run it up the middle every play. YOU ARE A D-RIDER JUHSEPI

[juhsepi]

It destroys the tradition of football. you can act like a five year old and insult me all you want.

That's my opinion.

[wewewe333]

you already said that. I asked how does it destroy the tradition of football. You are obviously pissed cus your slow and couldnt play with or against them and just want to fall on a pile, p.a.b.

[juhsepi]

Well let's see what traditional football.

"Three yards and a cloud of dust"

Or

"eww, I cracked a finger nail, wheres the trainer?"

[IWORSHIPBENDER18]

Hey, you can still run this bad boy on fourth down cant you?

[ducati644]

YEAH! LETS hear it for the rules comitee! Now if we could just get rif of that pesky trickery of the forward pass them rascals are trying to use!

[KiddAuror]

They didn't ban this formation because it was effective, they banned it because the ref's were tired of having to figure out who was and was not an eligible receiver each play. This formation doesn't work for alot of teams, but your not gonna see them getting shut down in the highlight films that are all out there. It just makes it easier to be an official when you don't have to analyze each play to make sure that everyone downfield is eligible.

[ThawingOyster]

I could stop it. All I would do is just not cover the guys that are ineligible. DUH!

[MORESTAFIO]

how do you know who is ineligible or not? answer me that 1 thawingoyster

[20yrsofgreatness]

Simple. You need to have 7 men on the line of scrimmage before the snap. The 2 men lined up on the outside of the line of scrimmage are eligible. So, the 5 middle men lined up on the l.o.s. aren't eligible. Don't cover them, cover the 2 outside men lined up on the l.o.s. and every behind it.

[potater76]

This is only some what accurate. there are formations that can be run out of this offense where that rule of thumb would not apply. What you would have to do is know who is a covered lineman.

[wewewe333]

knowing who is covered and who isnt is part of the game. quit hatin. i think this offense sucks and would easily be able to kill it but dont get on here and bitch about it unless you got a serious point, faggot

[troyjgrice]

the problem is they threw to ineligible "covered" receivers at least twice in this video.

[troyjgrice]

"Covered" meaning not the end man on the line at the snap.

[troyjgrice]

minimum of 7 on line in highschool. Only ends are eligible.

[darkchocolate132]

but then they could screen. they've actually revamped it to where it follows the new guidelines. theres always a way to stop an offense though, maybe you're right.

[ToiBoi8]

fuck the haters and do ur thing piedmont

[destrilogy]

they just kind of mix in the a-11 offense.

because i see in this video they use the i-form sometimes too. well more like, they mix in the i-form and basically run a-11 most of time.

[awellthoughtoutname]

ya, but piedmonte sucks no matter what they run

[awellthoughtoutname]

they shouldnt ban this because it doesnt even work any way.... we just lined up with 2 tackles and 2 d-ends in the outside linebacker position. all you have to do is get the tackles to crunch down on the only remaining linemen

[cbarnes28]

I think the reason this is frowned upon is because it is not a traditional formation. Teams are getting beat because they don't have the defensive packages they need to stop this. As soon as teams learn to adapt to it it will loose its effectiveness..

[thawiserfool]

As a coach, I'm not entirely certain what to think of this formation. The thing about it is it operates inside the rules, but in a way that seems a little shady... I think that were this a true innovation to the way football is played like, say, the split wing was, it would be different... The problem is it's really just a creative way of mis-interpreting the rules to increase offensive production. Two thumbs down for this.

[jjirl]

Two things strike me...

1) you need very talented players to pull this off, and it helps that the team in white are defensively poor

2) some of the plays seem made up almost on the spot, and don't seem to follow a pattern that would be logically described elsewhere

Thanks for posting the video, very interesting to watch

[BlackJew1992]

TIM BRASIC is a perfect example of this offense look him up on youtube

[yefim7]

what's new about it? looks like shotgun to me...

[mutantranch]

Did you miss that there are usually only 3 lineman and they are eligible receivers? Kinda different!

[yefim7]

how can everyone be an eligible receiver? don't you need some offensive lineman?

[BlackJew1992]

the linemen are recievers too they usually block but u can shuffle off to someone else

btw Riverside-Brookfield in Illinois does this offense WAY BETTER

[bjxiii]

ya they shudnt ban this.....cause their not even gaining that many yards lol

[Klick149263]

the A11 would never work in texas

[mikelley0371]

it could not work in the NFL for many reasons. first, it is illegal to run this offense in the nfl. this is beacuse in the NFL when lineman become "eligable recievers" they must sit out the next play. also, the numbering scheme for players in the NFL determined by position would also make this offense illegal.

[dk0793]

last part is true but im sure the nfl teams have 6 or more linemen

[knightsfootball74]

does anyone know where to find other games? all i can find is this one, and i want to see it against other opponents because i think it might work, but if it was just one team, one defense, it could be a fluke

[Aliveat9Deadby5]

hmm thats an interesting offense...

granted, it'd never work in the NFL, but it might against incompetent, static defenses in HS

i'll have to try that next year

[jthomp32]

stupid

[nolan78cobb]

yeah i have a feeling this offense will never catch on considering the inventor of it cant even seem to score using it, on the high school level at that

[ArcSoldier12340987]

What are you talking about?

The team that uses it has been undefeated for 2 years.

[HavinSetzEllYuh]

lol what da fuck are you talking about, before you come on youtube spreadin your bullshit knowledge, do your research first...

[BrothaZA]

there is so much potential for extra blocking. the two anchors (inside recivers) will come in when the formation is Base Stagger. the 2 back will also provide blocking.

[Bz3rk]

Just a fad. At the higher levels you will not be able to protect the quarterback from a very good defense. This is why we don't see the spread in the NFL. In college, you can get away with the spread sometimes, but you better have a disposable quarterback. I could see a few MAC or other mid-majors with this offense, but with little success against living, breathing defenses. (Case study: Texas Tech spread offense vs. Alabama defense 2005 Cotton Bowl)

[penrod1991]

every video of this A-11 stuff is of the same game

[solbrains]

Right ??

[pmpnbx]

I had been designing something very similar to this the past couple of years... No one would be believe me... maybe now since somebody actually ran it...

[zanemyerspoopy]

I play football at Piedmont High. I play the E man or Anchor (the most inside reciver on the right side). And infact it is legal in NFL. It is a very innovative and successful offence and we are proving in every game we play.

[SanJoseSharksCards29]

u mean blue pod?

[SJSharks29]

umm,im in 8th grade and the coaches came down to see what we have for high schoool football, thats why i knew waht bluebod and stff

[altaud]

im pretty sure ur team lost its first game 21-7 that doesnt sound like a very successful offense

[cazjuice]

its not legal in the nfl im sure, cause of there rules. but i think its legal in college. but that offense is weak, a team should be putting up 100+ points with that system. and they rollout to early. and there qb's cant throw to the right guy. but all in all i think there are too many receivers out there, not enough room to spread the field. but its hard to d up that o if they ran real deep routes with there short routes, that way that d couldnt play that super close zone stuff.

[88cutty]

i think this team ran it because they were undersized. i too could see a team put up big numbers if they had some exceptional athletes. this team clearly was average. If you put a running QB in that offense the field is so open for him to weave in and out. maybe spreading the D out that much would prevent big runs, but the 15-25 runs would happen way more often.

[PettySTP4387]

The NCAA has made numbering exceptions.  You can still run this, but not all 11 would because of their numbers, so it basically eliminates the offense from being used.

[neilrollins2000]

its a very good system like you said if you have the right personnel...i don't see how a high school coach could have the right personnel year in and year out to run something so vicious...but i have to say after watching the films its starting to get easier to see when they will pass and run so i think with enough time a coach might be able to figure out how to shut down such a high powered offense down.

[emb6903]

I see this being out lawed in highschool football very quick... with the right personel I dont see how this offense could be stopped at the highschool level