That was a great video everyone who has a hand gun should watch.
In regaurds to the 1911 (NOT SURE ABOUT THE NEW PRODUCTION 1911) but the WW l
and WW II 1911 the thum safety can not be ingaged unless the hammer is pulled back eaither in 1/2 cocked or full cocked so it would be holsterd in a condition 3 chamberd hammer back and safety on. Just a friendly FYI...
Unless the holster is pulling the trigger then no one but the operator is to blame. Finger doesn't go in the trigger guard until you are going to fire.
Your IQ has to be higher than your magazine capacity if you don't want to shoot and injure yourself.
rofl, I never read the manual. Does it have one? (No, I don't have the box, I opened it up grabbed the baggy and figured out what they were for put it on and went to work, the box into the trash) After the first one and a few weeks training, I purchased 4 more. I'm in agreement with you and most people, it's all user error. Dang, I don't even draw from my thumbbreaks with my index inward. I like serpa sporters; they are freaky fast.
I love this holster. I think that people who aren't smart enough to operate it properly should leave their guns in the night stand untill they develope the proper and safe habit of keeping the index straight out when drawing. This applies to all holsters.
@SWAT1089 The SR9 model is the one you use for the SR9c. In my case, I am actually using the model designed for an S&W M&P, as it works perfectly well with the SR9 and SR9c ... except for some very minor play.
My opinion would be that using the trigger finger for anything other that for firing the weapon is quite a risky concept. Do you like the 5.11 thumb drive holsters? they have locked retention, and there is absolutely no manipulation of the index finger at all. it is all done by grasping the pistol properly and pushing with your thumb. Peace.
@Gvpaohlubhmoob2011 concur no matter what holster i use before my 1911 goes in i make sure the safety is on loaded or might not be loaded (I never use the term "It's unloaded" if i think it is unloaded i say "probably not but could be")
If a table saw REQUIRED me to put my finger next to the blade in order to use it, I would say it was an unsafe design. Likewise, a holster that REQUIRES the user to place his finger in line with the trigger and press inwards in order to draw the pistol is an unsafe design.
If the holster doesn't REQUIRE that placement and usage to operate, then you can argue NDs are user error. Otherwise, I think it is a design defect.
Ever wonder why the hard power switch is on the BACK of a computer?
@Balefulmoon "Ever wonder why the hard power switch is on the BACK of a computer?"
True but most people don't know that you can simply hold the front power switch in for 5 seconds to do a hard shutdown too.
It's called knowing how to use your equipment, and it is ten times more important with firearms, but yet everyone is still surprised when seamingly intelligent people do really stupid things and hurt themselves and others. Laziness, complacency, and stupidity make life very painful.
@GeoFry3 It is easy to chalk every mistake up to "laziness, complacency and stupidity" but guns aren't fishing poles. They are most useful and necessary when the user is under stress, in fear, surprised, in danger, etc., not lazing in the shade, sipping a brew, and waiting for a bite. Impairment of mental acuity and fine motor skill under stress is why holsters and pistols should be designed in so as to minimize the thinking and fiddling required in order to use them effectively. Just my 2¢.
I agree with you in every aspect. Hastiness along with user error and inability to patiently and accurately use gear causes ND. I just purchased this holster in the carbon fiber and I quickly realized what the problem was with the premature discharges. I have friends that have used this holster for some time now with no problems. I like it and its a keeper for all the reasons you mentioned
basically what your sayin is its unsafe people makeing this design look bad. i would agree especially after i just saw a dude put a 45 round through his leg using this holster. an he admitted he disengaged his saftey while it was still in the holster. so 2 weapon saftey rules were broken. we have saftey rules for a reason. you can bend them but when you break them is where accidents happen.
i agree totally... i practice every week drawing and dry firing my XD and have never had my finger fall onto the trigger; however, this is due to a conscious decision to place my finger on the trigger. Often I practice my draw without my finger ever coming in contact with the trigger just to stress the point of safety and identifying your target before deciding to shoot it... i dont like the group think saying that equipment is bad.. only amateurs blame their equipment.
People do that finger curl with no Serpa holsters. People have NDs with no Serpa device. You called it correctly. Its a training error, a shooter error. It's not a design issue. The novelty observation was brilliant.
None of the lines line up, the trigger guard is different, receiver doesn't line up, exposed trigger, etc. Fobus really dropped the ball on that one, if it is in fact a Ruger rig.
@SentryGunleather It's definitely not a well-designed holster, but it does the job "OK". It looks a lot a P-series holster, but it doesn't fit anything but a SR9 or SR9c. This model isn't sold anymore, so apparently they got a clue. ;-)
Larry Vickers has banned the Serpa from his classes. Go over to M4Carbine(dot)net Tactical Gear section and see what a lot of very experienced and qualified people (people with real world experience - not internet mall ninjas) are saying about the Serpa. In addition to NDs, there are other negative issues with the Serpa.
Its not the holster its people who put their booker hooker on the trigger before they are on target that is the problem. The majority of ppl I have taught have NOT been taught on how to draw effectively.
BTW ZT I noticed youtube has de-sub'd me from your channel so I sub'd again. Keep up the good work.
Can training supersede instinct in a stressful situation? Probably yes if HIGHLY trained. For your average civilian, under stress, the straight finger pressure may instinctively and subconsciously become a curled finger pressure on the release button and carry over to the trigger.
As you stated, guys trying to be beat their buddies to the draw on the range go too fast and curl their finger. Wait until a guy rushes you in a dark park lot and see if the same thing will also occur.
Well well well... guess what Zombie Tactics... Tex Grebner just shot himself with this piece of crap holster in just the way Landshark22 described it. And he has it on video!
@ZombieTactics Why would anyone recommend taking Tex's advice? Quite simply, he is an idiot. He forgot which holster he was using, disengaged the manual safety on the 1911 while the pistol was in the holster and when the pistol didn't release from the holster, he instinctively applied pressure to the Serpa release button with a curled trigger finger and carried that finger back to the trigger resulting in a negligent discharge. Had he not been using a Serpa, I doubt a ND would have occurred.
@TatendaZim I don't think I commended anything regarding Tex's situation other than how he handled the aftermath. There was a "perfect storm" of variables at work here, in which the Serpa2 played the least significant part, IMHO. NDs happen with or without the Serpa2 holster, and will continue to do so. According to some stats I've read, MOST NDs occur with simple non-retention holsters in cases where people fail to achieve a correct initial grip and fumble the weapon.
@ZombieTactics "NDs happen with or without the Serpa2 holster, and will continue to do so."
I agree, but when an untrained or poorly trained individual is required to apply pressure to the side of the holster with his trigger finger in order to draw the weapon, then another failure point has been added. I don't have an issue with qualified individuals using whatever holster they want. But you and I both know that a vast majority of gun owners won't train to the level required.
I love that, safety sallies hahahaah. I have used the serpa system for duty as well as off duty. They are fantastic holsters and I have never been privy to an accidental shooting due to the holster.
Well by the same token one could say that under stress you could place your finger somewhere else and suddenly find that your pistol won't come out of its holster.
Lol that sucks, I thought people did this to learn how to not get shot.
I never carry my 1911 without safety on i agree thats crazy but I would not want a glock or a sr9 with one. The 1911 thumb safety is a part or the 2 or 3 safeties and glocks and sr9's have 3 already internally that Im comfortable carrying with and not having a 4th or even worse a magazine disconnect . I still might consider buying a polymer with a thumb safety but would never buy one with magazine disconnect for personal defense . Maybe as a range gun but who knows .
Eventually you'll own one and it will be the LAST holster you ever buy. Might as well buy one now and save yourself the money and embarassment of an AD with a Serpa.
I have the same weapon and two of the three holsters you present here. The Fobus was my first holster purchase and the Serpa was my second. Due to the fact that I ride my quad quite a bit, in the Humbolt County of OrEgon, I purchased the Serpa for the retention factor. (Yes, in OrEgon, it's against the law to ride ANY ATV with a loaded weapon, even if you have a CHL.) I had never even concidered the possibility of an accidental discharge. But then I always ride with the safety on. Silly me.
Great information!! I love the Serpa, own two of them and I draw just like you outlined with the safety engaged. I have seen other videos that show the Serpa locking mechanism fail and not allow the weapon to be withdrawn from the holster. But I think that was after they were trying to adjusting the pressure of locking mechanism on the trigger guard. Thanks for sharing.
I have that same holster, love it. I didnt see one for the SR9c so I got the full size. I didnt like how it was too long so I cut off the end. If you follow the line on the end with a dremel it cuts it off about perfect with the end of the barrel. sand it down and it looks stock. I am also a big fan of the crossbreed. I used to have a bianchi paddle holster with a thumb break but i noticed that in a hurry i wouldnt clear the thumb strap completely and would pull the holster out with the gun
@HostBeat WROL is off-topic for this video. This is really a vid about a holster, so Q about the SR9C is sort of off-topic too. JUST FOR GRINS: The SR9C has the same 3 internal safeties as Glocks, plus an external ambidextrous thumb safety, plus a magazine disconnect ... that's a total of 5, unless you also count the LCI (loaded chamber indicator).
@HostBeat On the off-chance that I mentioned it in passing: WROL = Without Rule Of Law. In other words, a situation where there is no law enforcement possible, a general societal breakdown.
Like you said, lack of trigger finger discipline can lead to NDs with all kinds of holsters. Sure, the Serpa holsters may exacerbate what is already a safety issue for new shooters, but that's a training issue. Single action, 1911 style guns should not be re-holstered without the safety on IMO. My Serpa has worked well for me, even using an XD which has no manual safety. The lesson here is that guns are far from idiot proof, so you can't expect what is essentially a sheath for your gun to
@wcropp1 compensate for your unsafe gun handling and alleviate all possible safety concerns. When used properly, as designed, (kinda like the gun itself), there really is no safety issue.
So it's a training issue. A lot of Officers in my last unit used the Serpa holster over the issued one. I have never seen anyone do that before though. Thanks for the info. Keep up the good work.
You are right, unsafe train, unsafe habits, unsafe firearms owners / users, unsafe instructors. However it's time for a new design in holsters, a safe panic safe holster.
Front Sight's web page has a list of incidents from their own range and the analysis of what happened. Tellingly, 10 of the 11 incidents involved either unholstering, or reholstering weapons, and all but one of the 10 were at least in part due to a violation of rule 3 - keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. Remember that the four rules always apply, even when speed matters!
@EBuff75 Its not the holster its people who put their booker hooker on the trigger before they are on target that is the problem. The majority of ppl I have taught have NOT been taught on how to draw effectively.
Fact remains ppl need to follow the steps, grab, clear, rotate on target then shoot.
eminently reasonable, as usual! I've never had problems with my Serpa2, although I've not used it much lately, preferring Serpa CQC for IDPA. I did just enough training with the Serpa2 that my finger would get sore - just my body mechanics in relation to that tab. I know it's a training issue, but after missing that tab just enough, and jerking my belt up around my shoulders during a competition, my ego wanted me to switch to the CQC.
@Skullchaser08 What video did you watch? He said incorrect indexing of the trigger finger (while using any holster for that matter) can cause the user to pull the trigger while drawing. I hope you were just joking with ZombieTactics.
@Skullchaser08 now I understand. I hate that 500 letter limit too. Man 500 letters seemed so long in elementary school. Now I type and have to go back and edit everything. Like changing the and's to &'s and the you's to u's, etc... take care.
I think it is alright, but there has to be a better way so you do not have to train around it. The only problem comes in when you are in a precarious position or under much stress that could provide an issue. But, training is a large part of it as well. And yes, safeties off is a horrible Idea I think as well....
Just like anything else, no matter how safe you try to make something that is inherently dangerous (like a gun/holster) someone will fail to train with it properly and "over ignorant" the intelligent design. Great vid. Messing up a draw from a Serpa2 is like when a quarterback messes up the snap because he's so ready to trow the ball he fails to secure it properly from the center to QB exchange. Focus on each stage as it happens and speed will be a natural byproduct of doing it correctly.
I absolutely agree with your point of view. I own a Glock/Serpa holster and have never had this issue. That being said I have seen a number of people not index the holster properly. The two main issues are training and ego. Training can be handled by applying "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast". The ego issue discussed is the responsibility of the instructor to set the constraints and tone of the class. It is up to him/her to detect these issues and sideline the shooter if needed for safety.
That is very sad that a "training institution" is forbidding use of something because of errors that are solely a training issue. I have carried a Glock in a Serpa for lots of training and working hours and still have exactly as many holes as I'm supposed to have. The 3 rules of CARRYING a firearm (not to be confused with the rules of gun handling): 1. Training. 2. Training. 3. TRAINING.
1. I know it's standard these days among students of the gun but thanks for saying "ND". I was watching the news the other day and they were talking about an "accidental discharge" and I cringed. To my mind, there is no such thing. 2. FL is inching closer to 'open carry' and even as a student of the gun I think I would make active retention part of the law. I've been in classes that had rudimentary retention drills and it scared me how many ppl had their pistol taken. As always, training>all TY
I use this holster with my limber in my dads shop. I constantly check my saftey to make sure its engaged as I carry condition 1. Also I practice my draw with proper finger placement. So yeah.
Who needs a holster at all? I just carry my pistol around in my hand at all times. It does become a hassle at times, like when you're grocery shopping or getting gas or trying to use a knife and a fork at the same time while eating at a restaraunt, but, I get by. Real men don't need holsters.
Excellent video. For some reason it never occurred to me that people would be actually trying to get their finger in the trigger guard as fast as possible even though I see some do that all the time. I was thinking that most of the ND's happened from people just pressing too hard on the release and that force caused them to hit the trigger once they cleared the holster. My hands are big enough that I don't need to worry about since my finger would hit the front of the trigger guard.
Great review Ive been using Serpa holsters for years (have one for everyone of my pistols) with zero ND's, And dont feel the need to carry anything else.
I have used my Serpa for a couple of years now. EDC with my Glock 26 and even when training and hiking. Even slipped down a hill and no problem. But I can fully see what you are saying and agree that it a user error. But hey accidents happen.
Great video!I agree 100%.I have used the Serpa 2 for years and as long as you practice some common sense and proper procedure most likely you wont have a negligent discharge.
Z.T.: As a small arms coach back in my days in the military (many years ago) I think your analysis of the issue is right on. What I don't quite follow is thinking that says deactivating the lock on the Serpa will make it a "safer" holster. Seems to me with no lock the temptation to have the trigger finger ready to go inside the guard during the draw is just as great, maybe even increased, or am I missing something here?
@offramp100 I think the "theory" is that inexperienced users are less prone to "mash" on the paddle with their fingertips with it deactivated. It's trading one problem for another though ... now there is only the slightest of passive retention and people can easily draw the gun without a good/proper master grip. I also have a feeling that guns will go flying during the harder-running tactical courses. ;-)
I have drawn from my serpa 2 thousands of times and never had my finger land on the trigger. It is a training issue that can be corrected. However I do understand the classes not wanting them on there range.
Proper training, proper operation produces safe handling. Lack of training or neglent operation results in safety issues. Your video demonstrates this principle vividly. Thanks for sharing.
well put sir.
Manzanita205 3 days ago
PMP - Practice Makes Perfect :)
retro93292 3 days ago
I've used these holsters for at least 6 years. I've never had a problem. I love them.
jernelsonable 5 days ago
That was a great video everyone who has a hand gun should watch.
In regaurds to the 1911 (NOT SURE ABOUT THE NEW PRODUCTION 1911) but the WW l
and WW II 1911 the thum safety can not be ingaged unless the hammer is pulled back eaither in 1/2 cocked or full cocked so it would be holsterd in a condition 3 chamberd hammer back and safety on. Just a friendly FYI...
clayton758 3 weeks ago
Its not a flaw in the holster, its a flaw in the operator!!!
fsuboy75 3 weeks ago
100% safe holster. People just don't know how to properly use it. Idiots curl their finger when they don't need to.
XITroll13 3 weeks ago
plain and simple ... it's as safe as you make it ... much like shooting ;-)
FSTCUGR 1 month ago
Unless the holster is pulling the trigger then no one but the operator is to blame. Finger doesn't go in the trigger guard until you are going to fire.
Your IQ has to be higher than your magazine capacity if you don't want to shoot and injure yourself.
GeoFry3 1 month ago
Awesome video
Chin66623 1 month ago
rofl, I never read the manual. Does it have one? (No, I don't have the box, I opened it up grabbed the baggy and figured out what they were for put it on and went to work, the box into the trash) After the first one and a few weeks training, I purchased 4 more. I'm in agreement with you and most people, it's all user error. Dang, I don't even draw from my thumbbreaks with my index inward. I like serpa sporters; they are freaky fast.
XGCScrappy 2 months ago
I love this holster. I think that people who aren't smart enough to operate it properly should leave their guns in the night stand untill they develope the proper and safe habit of keeping the index straight out when drawing. This applies to all holsters.
stevebell1984 2 months ago 2
I was on the fence about this holster... thank you for this vid and i have now made up my mind. Thank you
ChefDevo1 3 months ago
Is that serpa2 specifically for the sr9c? Because I know blackhawk makes one for the sr9.
SWAT1089 4 months ago
@SWAT1089 The SR9 model is the one you use for the SR9c. In my case, I am actually using the model designed for an S&W M&P, as it works perfectly well with the SR9 and SR9c ... except for some very minor play.
ZombieTactics 4 months ago
I got the same one for an HK and you're right. as long as it's properly indexed it's fine.
fury211 4 months ago
I'd take a Safariland over the Serpa, but not because of it's release location.
HammeredAndHorny 5 months ago
My opinion would be that using the trigger finger for anything other that for firing the weapon is quite a risky concept. Do you like the 5.11 thumb drive holsters? they have locked retention, and there is absolutely no manipulation of the index finger at all. it is all done by grasping the pistol properly and pushing with your thumb. Peace.
Davidbirtles1 5 months ago
ya cant fix stupid
winehead99 5 months ago
@Gvpaohlubhmoob2011 concur no matter what holster i use before my 1911 goes in i make sure the safety is on loaded or might not be loaded (I never use the term "It's unloaded" if i think it is unloaded i say "probably not but could be")
masterofnotmuch2 6 months ago
If a table saw REQUIRED me to put my finger next to the blade in order to use it, I would say it was an unsafe design. Likewise, a holster that REQUIRES the user to place his finger in line with the trigger and press inwards in order to draw the pistol is an unsafe design.
If the holster doesn't REQUIRE that placement and usage to operate, then you can argue NDs are user error. Otherwise, I think it is a design defect.
Ever wonder why the hard power switch is on the BACK of a computer?
Balefulmoon 6 months ago
@Balefulmoon That was a GREAT comment!
albi131 5 months ago
@Balefulmoon "Ever wonder why the hard power switch is on the BACK of a computer?"
True but most people don't know that you can simply hold the front power switch in for 5 seconds to do a hard shutdown too.
It's called knowing how to use your equipment, and it is ten times more important with firearms, but yet everyone is still surprised when seamingly intelligent people do really stupid things and hurt themselves and others. Laziness, complacency, and stupidity make life very painful.
GeoFry3 1 month ago
@GeoFry3 It is easy to chalk every mistake up to "laziness, complacency and stupidity" but guns aren't fishing poles. They are most useful and necessary when the user is under stress, in fear, surprised, in danger, etc., not lazing in the shade, sipping a brew, and waiting for a bite. Impairment of mental acuity and fine motor skill under stress is why holsters and pistols should be designed in so as to minimize the thinking and fiddling required in order to use them effectively. Just my 2¢.
Balefulmoon 1 month ago
I agree with you in every aspect. Hastiness along with user error and inability to patiently and accurately use gear causes ND. I just purchased this holster in the carbon fiber and I quickly realized what the problem was with the premature discharges. I have friends that have used this holster for some time now with no problems. I like it and its a keeper for all the reasons you mentioned
awomansworld123 6 months ago in playlist Blackhawk SERPA holster failures and criticisms
Otherwise .... you have to be smarter than the holster.
SmokeRingsPipeDreams 6 months ago
Very well spoken and presented.
drmaudio 7 months ago
basically what your sayin is its unsafe people makeing this design look bad. i would agree especially after i just saw a dude put a 45 round through his leg using this holster. an he admitted he disengaged his saftey while it was still in the holster. so 2 weapon saftey rules were broken. we have saftey rules for a reason. you can bend them but when you break them is where accidents happen.
stewpidaso26 7 months ago
Comment removed
antiigravity 7 months ago
i agree totally... i practice every week drawing and dry firing my XD and have never had my finger fall onto the trigger; however, this is due to a conscious decision to place my finger on the trigger. Often I practice my draw without my finger ever coming in contact with the trigger just to stress the point of safety and identifying your target before deciding to shoot it... i dont like the group think saying that equipment is bad.. only amateurs blame their equipment.
MrAsundstrom 7 months ago
Well i think you are 100% correct in your video,It is the operators fault not the holster.
You have to learn to use what ever you buy and that includes firearms.
mcrafton89 8 months ago
People do that finger curl with no Serpa holsters. People have NDs with no Serpa device. You called it correctly. Its a training error, a shooter error. It's not a design issue. The novelty observation was brilliant.
DeadeyeSteve 8 months ago
Is that even a Ruger holster by Fobus? Looks like an XD rig. What's going on here, buddy?
SentryGunleather 8 months ago
@SentryGunleather It's absolutely the SR9 holster.
ZombieTactics 8 months ago
@ZombieTactics
None of the lines line up, the trigger guard is different, receiver doesn't line up, exposed trigger, etc. Fobus really dropped the ball on that one, if it is in fact a Ruger rig.
SentryGunleather 8 months ago
@SentryGunleather It's definitely not a well-designed holster, but it does the job "OK". It looks a lot a P-series holster, but it doesn't fit anything but a SR9 or SR9c. This model isn't sold anymore, so apparently they got a clue. ;-)
ZombieTactics 8 months ago
Ridiculous. You can't compare a real passive holster to that nylon nonsense of yours.
SentryGunleather 8 months ago
If you ND and blame it on your holster, you're just a fucking idiot.
MightyBaconSammich 8 months ago
Larry Vickers has banned the Serpa from his classes. Go over to M4Carbine(dot)net Tactical Gear section and see what a lot of very experienced and qualified people (people with real world experience - not internet mall ninjas) are saying about the Serpa. In addition to NDs, there are other negative issues with the Serpa.
TatendaZim 8 months ago
★★★★★
MadBadVoodo 8 months ago
LOL
Funny because I see so many ppl who's light bulbs are out.
;)
SafeArmsReview 8 months ago
Good video
Its not the holster its people who put their booker hooker on the trigger before they are on target that is the problem. The majority of ppl I have taught have NOT been taught on how to draw effectively.
BTW ZT I noticed youtube has de-sub'd me from your channel so I sub'd again. Keep up the good work.
:D
SafeArmsReview 8 months ago
Practice makes perfect, with any kind of holster (but just in case I'll practice with an empty firearm)
ConcernedPrepper 8 months ago
Comment removed
TatendaZim 8 months ago
Can training supersede instinct in a stressful situation? Probably yes if HIGHLY trained. For your average civilian, under stress, the straight finger pressure may instinctively and subconsciously become a curled finger pressure on the release button and carry over to the trigger.
As you stated, guys trying to be beat their buddies to the draw on the range go too fast and curl their finger. Wait until a guy rushes you in a dark park lot and see if the same thing will also occur.
TatendaZim 8 months ago
Well well well... guess what Zombie Tactics... Tex Grebner just shot himself with this piece of crap holster in just the way Landshark22 described it. And he has it on video!
supermaucat 8 months ago
@supermaucat Yes, you would do well to watch Tex's video and take his advice. He didn't blame the holster.
ZombieTactics 8 months ago
@ZombieTactics Why would anyone recommend taking Tex's advice? Quite simply, he is an idiot. He forgot which holster he was using, disengaged the manual safety on the 1911 while the pistol was in the holster and when the pistol didn't release from the holster, he instinctively applied pressure to the Serpa release button with a curled trigger finger and carried that finger back to the trigger resulting in a negligent discharge. Had he not been using a Serpa, I doubt a ND would have occurred.
TatendaZim 8 months ago
@TatendaZim I don't think I commended anything regarding Tex's situation other than how he handled the aftermath. There was a "perfect storm" of variables at work here, in which the Serpa2 played the least significant part, IMHO. NDs happen with or without the Serpa2 holster, and will continue to do so. According to some stats I've read, MOST NDs occur with simple non-retention holsters in cases where people fail to achieve a correct initial grip and fumble the weapon.
ZombieTactics 8 months ago
@ZombieTactics "NDs happen with or without the Serpa2 holster, and will continue to do so."
I agree, but when an untrained or poorly trained individual is required to apply pressure to the side of the holster with his trigger finger in order to draw the weapon, then another failure point has been added. I don't have an issue with qualified individuals using whatever holster they want. But you and I both know that a vast majority of gun owners won't train to the level required.
TatendaZim 8 months ago
@ZombieTactics
im a little confused because it seems that this could of happened with any kydex moulded holster. didnt tex just not index correctly?
zehnsechz 8 months ago
@supermaucat Bad technique. User error. Ouch.
aermotorstudio 8 months ago
I love that, safety sallies hahahaah. I have used the serpa system for duty as well as off duty. They are fantastic holsters and I have never been privy to an accidental shooting due to the holster.
Renta1Cop 8 months ago
Well by the same token one could say that under stress you could place your finger somewhere else and suddenly find that your pistol won't come out of its holster.
Lol that sucks, I thought people did this to learn how to not get shot.
e1ghtys1x 9 months ago
@anubissor Tools vs. Toys my friend, but I understand, lol.
ZombieTactics 9 months ago 3
I never carry my 1911 without safety on i agree thats crazy but I would not want a glock or a sr9 with one. The 1911 thumb safety is a part or the 2 or 3 safeties and glocks and sr9's have 3 already internally that Im comfortable carrying with and not having a 4th or even worse a magazine disconnect . I still might consider buying a polymer with a thumb safety but would never buy one with magazine disconnect for personal defense . Maybe as a range gun but who knows .
condition145 10 months ago
Great video explaining why Serpa2 gets a bad and undeserved rap.
harr77 10 months ago
FOBUS,FOBUS,FOBUS!
Eventually you'll own one and it will be the LAST holster you ever buy. Might as well buy one now and save yourself the money and embarassment of an AD with a Serpa.
sqrpnt 10 months ago
Very well said. Couldn't agree with you more. I love my Serpa holesters. Glad to hear James Yeager has changed his view on them.
metalkrafter1 10 months ago
I have the same weapon and two of the three holsters you present here. The Fobus was my first holster purchase and the Serpa was my second. Due to the fact that I ride my quad quite a bit, in the Humbolt County of OrEgon, I purchased the Serpa for the retention factor. (Yes, in OrEgon, it's against the law to ride ANY ATV with a loaded weapon, even if you have a CHL.) I had never even concidered the possibility of an accidental discharge. But then I always ride with the safety on. Silly me.
lostburro 10 months ago
The problem is not design, but training.
Mrmodernsurvival 10 months ago
The Serpa holster is great. I have them, and love them. I find it easier and safer when you draw. Your finger comes out right in the right place.
cpmower 10 months ago
Definitely a training issue. Great video!
rasputinsdog 10 months ago
Great information!! I love the Serpa, own two of them and I draw just like you outlined with the safety engaged. I have seen other videos that show the Serpa locking mechanism fail and not allow the weapon to be withdrawn from the holster. But I think that was after they were trying to adjusting the pressure of locking mechanism on the trigger guard. Thanks for sharing.
okieprepper 10 months ago
oh ok... thx sorry to bother ..
HostBeat 10 months ago
I have that same holster, love it. I didnt see one for the SR9c so I got the full size. I didnt like how it was too long so I cut off the end. If you follow the line on the end with a dremel it cuts it off about perfect with the end of the barrel. sand it down and it looks stock. I am also a big fan of the crossbreed. I used to have a bianchi paddle holster with a thumb break but i noticed that in a hurry i wouldnt clear the thumb strap completely and would pull the holster out with the gun
bonesoncampus 10 months ago
what is wrol and how many safety mecanisms does that handgun have?
HostBeat 10 months ago
@HostBeat WROL is off-topic for this video. This is really a vid about a holster, so Q about the SR9C is sort of off-topic too. JUST FOR GRINS: The SR9C has the same 3 internal safeties as Glocks, plus an external ambidextrous thumb safety, plus a magazine disconnect ... that's a total of 5, unless you also count the LCI (loaded chamber indicator).
ZombieTactics 10 months ago
@ZombieTactics sorry thot you sed when you use this in a WROL situation ..
HostBeat 10 months ago
@HostBeat On the off-chance that I mentioned it in passing: WROL = Without Rule Of Law. In other words, a situation where there is no law enforcement possible, a general societal breakdown.
ZombieTactics 10 months ago
Like you said, lack of trigger finger discipline can lead to NDs with all kinds of holsters. Sure, the Serpa holsters may exacerbate what is already a safety issue for new shooters, but that's a training issue. Single action, 1911 style guns should not be re-holstered without the safety on IMO. My Serpa has worked well for me, even using an XD which has no manual safety. The lesson here is that guns are far from idiot proof, so you can't expect what is essentially a sheath for your gun to
wcropp1 10 months ago
@wcropp1 compensate for your unsafe gun handling and alleviate all possible safety concerns. When used properly, as designed, (kinda like the gun itself), there really is no safety issue.
wcropp1 10 months ago
One guy disliked this video because they saw it after shooting themself in the leg.
StarStryder1 10 months ago
So it's a training issue. A lot of Officers in my last unit used the Serpa holster over the issued one. I have never seen anyone do that before though. Thanks for the info. Keep up the good work.
airframer1981 10 months ago
Good video! Thanks for posting. Keep up the good work!
oyarrito 10 months ago
1911 type for the win - oh and that landshark guy must have some safariland stock or something. He's a bigtime pusher.
Daytonaman675 10 months ago
I'll keep my post short today ;)
The main issue is (and always will be), peoples stupidity, trying to show off at the cost of not only their own safety, but the safety of others.
that works for guns, and basically anything people bitch and moan about when they do not want to be responsible ;)
(jeehz, did end up longer than expected xD )
theSpaniar 10 months ago
My mamma always said stupid is as stupid does.
bae313 10 months ago
I think we need some government intervention to protect us from ourselves.
jerseydevildog 10 months ago
Great info and logic as always my friend!
DocTacDad 10 months ago
Very nice demo of drawing and safety's.
MrStrawberrification 10 months ago
You are right, unsafe train, unsafe habits, unsafe firearms owners / users, unsafe instructors. However it's time for a new design in holsters, a safe panic safe holster.
Good video.
buzzsah 10 months ago
nice review, fellow calgunner... I've got this holster, and I haven't used it much... but this reminder gives me much more confidence in using it...
mantecabmx 10 months ago
Front Sight's web page has a list of incidents from their own range and the analysis of what happened. Tellingly, 10 of the 11 incidents involved either unholstering, or reholstering weapons, and all but one of the 10 were at least in part due to a violation of rule 3 - keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. Remember that the four rules always apply, even when speed matters!
EBuff75 10 months ago 5
Comment removed
SafeArmsReview 8 months ago
@EBuff75 Its not the holster its people who put their booker hooker on the trigger before they are on target that is the problem. The majority of ppl I have taught have NOT been taught on how to draw effectively.
Fact remains ppl need to follow the steps, grab, clear, rotate on target then shoot.
:)
SafeArmsReview 8 months ago
eminently reasonable, as usual! I've never had problems with my Serpa2, although I've not used it much lately, preferring Serpa CQC for IDPA. I did just enough training with the Serpa2 that my finger would get sore - just my body mechanics in relation to that tab. I know it's a training issue, but after missing that tab just enough, and jerking my belt up around my shoulders during a competition, my ego wanted me to switch to the CQC.
drzmanproject 10 months ago
If someone shot himself drawing from a serpa it had to their own fault
im using my serpa for about 5 years now and its the best holster i ever used - and i have to say that its also one of the safest holsters i ever seen
Polenar 10 months ago
Good tabletop, Mr. Zombie. I'm looking at a Fobus or something similar for my FNP-9
EverythingisFire 10 months ago
Good tabletop, Mr. Zombie
EverythingisFire 10 months ago
Seriously, you can't blame the user for everything! Because it's possible to easily engage that trigger as you're drawing IS A DESIGN FLAW!
Why use Serpa when there's other designs that DON'T HAVE THIS ISSUE!
supermaucat 10 months ago
"Seriously, you can't blame the user for everything!"
So you're saying the holster pulls the trigger?
Skullchaser08 10 months ago
@Skullchaser08 So you're saying that equipment is never at fault?
supermaucat 10 months ago
@supermaucat You've inspired a video which will further explain my approach to thinking about these kinds of issues. Thanks for the input.
ZombieTactics 10 months ago
@Skullchaser08 What video did you watch? He said incorrect indexing of the trigger finger (while using any holster for that matter) can cause the user to pull the trigger while drawing. I hope you were just joking with ZombieTactics.
bae313 10 months ago
@bae313 I was responding to that "supermaucat" guy, part of his original comment is in the quote signs of mine.
And I'm totally with what the ZT-man said, I think he's 100% right.
As are you for that matter, it's a training error, no equipment flaw.
That was actually the argument behind my "witty" one-liner.
I really should stop deleting the @whoever just to save some characters, such a stupid habit.
Skullchaser08 10 months ago
@Skullchaser08 now I understand. I hate that 500 letter limit too. Man 500 letters seemed so long in elementary school. Now I type and have to go back and edit everything. Like changing the and's to &'s and the you's to u's, etc... take care.
bae313 10 months ago
"Man 500 letters seemed so long in elementary school."
Hahaha, so true. :D
They really should make the limit 1000, or at least 800.
Skullchaser08 10 months ago
I think it is alright, but there has to be a better way so you do not have to train around it. The only problem comes in when you are in a precarious position or under much stress that could provide an issue. But, training is a large part of it as well. And yes, safeties off is a horrible Idea I think as well....
CaptainBerz 10 months ago
Just like anything else, no matter how safe you try to make something that is inherently dangerous (like a gun/holster) someone will fail to train with it properly and "over ignorant" the intelligent design. Great vid. Messing up a draw from a Serpa2 is like when a quarterback messes up the snap because he's so ready to trow the ball he fails to secure it properly from the center to QB exchange. Focus on each stage as it happens and speed will be a natural byproduct of doing it correctly.
markquimby82 10 months ago
Comment removed
markquimby82 10 months ago
I absolutely agree with your point of view. I own a Glock/Serpa holster and have never had this issue. That being said I have seen a number of people not index the holster properly. The two main issues are training and ego. Training can be handled by applying "Slow is smooth and smooth is fast". The ego issue discussed is the responsibility of the instructor to set the constraints and tone of the class. It is up to him/her to detect these issues and sideline the shooter if needed for safety.
EnduringEagle 10 months ago
That is very sad that a "training institution" is forbidding use of something because of errors that are solely a training issue. I have carried a Glock in a Serpa for lots of training and working hours and still have exactly as many holes as I'm supposed to have. The 3 rules of CARRYING a firearm (not to be confused with the rules of gun handling): 1. Training. 2. Training. 3. TRAINING.
holybrolydood 10 months ago
Good job !!
KimberTrace 10 months ago
1. I know it's standard these days among students of the gun but thanks for saying "ND". I was watching the news the other day and they were talking about an "accidental discharge" and I cringed. To my mind, there is no such thing. 2. FL is inching closer to 'open carry' and even as a student of the gun I think I would make active retention part of the law. I've been in classes that had rudimentary retention drills and it scared me how many ppl had their pistol taken. As always, training>all TY
jonnypescado1 10 months ago
*kimber
pray4chicken 10 months ago
I use this holster with my limber in my dads shop. I constantly check my saftey to make sure its engaged as I carry condition 1. Also I practice my draw with proper finger placement. So yeah.
pray4chicken 10 months ago
Who needs a holster at all? I just carry my pistol around in my hand at all times. It does become a hassle at times, like when you're grocery shopping or getting gas or trying to use a knife and a fork at the same time while eating at a restaraunt, but, I get by. Real men don't need holsters.
badlieutenant13 10 months ago
Excellent video. For some reason it never occurred to me that people would be actually trying to get their finger in the trigger guard as fast as possible even though I see some do that all the time. I was thinking that most of the ND's happened from people just pressing too hard on the release and that force caused them to hit the trigger once they cleared the holster. My hands are big enough that I don't need to worry about since my finger would hit the front of the trigger guard.
gboyd242 10 months ago
Really great video and I agree with you.
ChromeFreak123 10 months ago
stupid people do stupid thinks.
vladi420 10 months ago
People like to blame everything but themselves and their bad habits or bad training.
eviloverlordbob 10 months ago
Great review Ive been using Serpa holsters for years (have one for everyone of my pistols) with zero ND's, And dont feel the need to carry anything else.
neodecker 10 months ago
I have used my Serpa for a couple of years now. EDC with my Glock 26 and even when training and hiking. Even slipped down a hill and no problem. But I can fully see what you are saying and agree that it a user error. But hey accidents happen.
voodoo35355 10 months ago
Great video!I agree 100%.I have used the Serpa 2 for years and as long as you practice some common sense and proper procedure most likely you wont have a negligent discharge.
dej769 10 months ago
Z.T.: As a small arms coach back in my days in the military (many years ago) I think your analysis of the issue is right on. What I don't quite follow is thinking that says deactivating the lock on the Serpa will make it a "safer" holster. Seems to me with no lock the temptation to have the trigger finger ready to go inside the guard during the draw is just as great, maybe even increased, or am I missing something here?
offramp100 10 months ago 3
@offramp100 I think the "theory" is that inexperienced users are less prone to "mash" on the paddle with their fingertips with it deactivated. It's trading one problem for another though ... now there is only the slightest of passive retention and people can easily draw the gun without a good/proper master grip. I also have a feeling that guns will go flying during the harder-running tactical courses. ;-)
ZombieTactics 10 months ago
@offramp100 I agree!
dej769 10 months ago
@offramp100 Thanks for your perspective.
ZombieTactics 9 months ago
great vid on a great holster i own 4
pjicleanair420 10 months ago
How do you feel about leather holsters? Actually which ones do you like if any?
StatenIslandPrepper 10 months ago
@StatenIslandPrepper I've had wear issue with leather holsters, but I do like the Galco KingTuk for my Glock19
ZombieTactics 10 months ago
I have drawn from my serpa 2 thousands of times and never had my finger land on the trigger. It is a training issue that can be corrected. However I do understand the classes not wanting them on there range.
URBANAMERICANTAC 10 months ago
Proper training, proper operation produces safe handling. Lack of training or neglent operation results in safety issues. Your video demonstrates this principle vividly. Thanks for sharing.
morgandewolfe 10 months ago
death holster!!!!!
derekgrebner87 10 months ago
@derekgrebner87 Lazy user error
stompySharpNpointy 10 months ago
I think my brother has one of those and he likes it and never had a saftey issue
TheAntfour 10 months ago