This whole thing confuses me. I go to great lengths to make sure people cant find out i used to be xtian. I dont ever want to be associated with people like captain spike pads here. It's like your saying hey i used to think slavery, child sacrifice and incest was a cool thing. Somebody says NO YOU DIDNT and you somehow feel you need to defend the fact that you might have. If they claiming you never where its like a "getting out of being thought of as stupid" free card.
i'm laughing hard, trying to imagine a bunch of scientists discussing on a conference, all dressed up as ridiculous superheroes and waving fingers into each other's faces.
No disrespect Heathen, but, I do not believe that you were actually born again. It is possible to pray the prayer of Salvation and NOT have the faith that God would actually save you. For yrs I thought I was saved. I remember praying the prayer of Salvation when I was young, as I grew up in church. It wasn't until I was 21, when I actually felt the power of the Lord come into my heart and change me on the inside.
Would you care to give your testimony of Salvation?
Yeah, no disrespect to you either...but you also weren't actually born again. See not only did I have faith that God WOULD save me...but I thought he DID.
So again, you aren't saved...you aren't a real Christian. You'll probably leave the faith later in life which will prove that you aren't really saved now.
I considered myself saved from about 13 till my early 20's. As to the rest of the story, I've already explained to you why I don't play that game....it's a bastardized version of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. I'm not interested in your rabbit hole.
This is no Rabbit hole. Heathen, you sounded like I did at the age of 15. I thought I was saved to, just because I was raised in church and my family forced me to go. IT wasn't until I was 21 I realized that i was not saved. I even took up for God when I was 15-19 until I really found out how much fun sin was. At 17 I left the church and found many so called friends that welcomed me to the rave and party life.
Sin is fun, until it leaves you dead, or almost dead. This is how I knew that I was not saved, because I loved sin so much (parties with friends, drugs alcohol, porn stars, cursing every breath. This was my life. Oh yea, I knew that I was not saved, but I didn't care either. I wanted to live my own life with no one forcing me to do anything.
If you have been truly saved you delight in following Christ and you will never disagree with the Bible. However, because we still have a sinful nature until we receive our new body in heaven, we will live in struggle with sin. Though by prayer we can overcome sin. We are no longer bound by sin. And though a Christian will struggle with their sinful flesh nature, they no NO LONGER consume their self with sin without any having concern for grieving the Holy Spirit that lives in them.
So know you claim that you STILL struggle with sin even though you are no longer BOUND by sin...so you have to pray to OVERCOME sin, which means you still WANT to sin, which means you must not ACTUALLY be saved.
Now, me. When I was "saved" had NO desire to sin. RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of puberty, I didn't masturbate because it was supposed to be a sin. I didn't lust after girls, didn't cuss, didn't...well...anything. My doubts didn't begin out of a desire to sin. It came from QUESTIONS.
The questions led me to want to find the solution and strengthen my faith. The search led to MORE QUESTIONS. At NO point was sinning ever a factor. And to this day, I lead a very ethical and respectable life. Your desperate attempt to label me as "not a real Christian" fails miserably as it would appear that the very things you claim I have which are supposed to suggest that I wasn't....YOU have...and I don't.
So...pay close attention here...you decided that you weren't REALLY saved before because you started doing things you now think are wrong...
But NOW, you think you ARE saved because you don't do them NOW. But you USED to think that you WERE saved...and now you think you ARE saved...
So all it would take to prove that you AREN'T saved, by your own definition, is for you to do ONE SOLITARY sin....uh oh....looks like you are about to contradict yourself...
You sound just like Nicodemus in the book of John, because you have never been born again. Being born again is something that takes place in the Spiritual man. Not in the natural. There is a Spiritual birth that takes place and Christ lives in your heart.
Joh 3:5-6
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
I was "born again" as you would call it...turns out, it's not real. So if I thought I was born again and it turns out I wasn't...what makes you so sure that you aren't just as mistaken?
no, he was a real christian.. All KH did was grow out that huge fairy tale. Kind of like you probably grew out of your belief in Santa Claus. Just because you did, it doesn't mean you weren't a true Santa believer. Get my point?
Some low blows in the beginning. Mind you, I agree with the criticisms but with the way these guys are, they're likely to accuse you of confusing production quality with bad logic.
Such intentional ignorance from these folk!
Their pastors give them these pieces of bad logic to make them feel better about their beliefs. Then they bring it out to the public and get refuted.
I think they can see the faults, but they ignore the refutations and argue as though they still made sense.
Most of us understand that he is not a good example of a Christian, but there is a growing argument of ignorance circulating youtube from (I think, mostly born-agains / baptists / evangelicals) that there can be no converts out of Christianity. Their argument is grounded on faulty logic that they tout as sound reasoning. To them, if you are an atheist now, you were never actually Christian to begin with.
False. being born again means(lots of christian screw this up)being born again in spirit in to God's kingdom.physical can only give birth to the physical. spiritual can only give birth to the spiritaul John 3:5-6. so once u die u become into God's kingdom as a spirit.Also when u die and dont believe ur literally just dead. hundreds of times God tell us that if u dont believe u will be dead 4ever,the second death. he never says spiritually u'll be dead. he does say ur spirit will be dead.big diff
im actually not part of a denomination. im more, i guess, hardcore then those churches. they have so many flaws and dont follow God's law. Ive been studying the bible like crazy the last month and found many things they dont do. then i found out that simon the magician started catholicism and everything is based off that except the Church Of God(the one the disciples started). one thing i do appreciate is that ur reasonable when u respond to me. thanks for that.
no actually i read it in the bible. i read a different book that also told it to me. many verses talking about the afterlife say this. like the verse john 3:5-6. also not once does God say u got to an eternal punishment. he says u die. the eternal punishment is for satan.
I was just asking as there are a few different denominations that do teach this...of course they don't get much publicity compared to the hell fire and brimstone guys.
Difference = when you are spiritually born again you have christ within you. You cannot be "unborn" because even if you fall away from God, His presence is still in you.
Being born again does not create an "unreal person". You become new in the sense that with God in your life you will change your ways and walk with Him
Yeah, I was a Christian, too. Not only are these people arrogant and judgemental to assume that their (faulty) understanding "trumps" yours, they are also ignorant of their own "text", which says clearly that if you HAVE been a believer and "fall away", you can't be brought back into faith. And I'm here to stand up and-uh witness-uh. brothah. that that is very true. And I find that a very comforting thought. Good vid! Well done!
it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come—6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance
i love your idea of people doing bad things because they are in a state of psychosis, wish i had thaught of that.. is it possible that someone acting like they are possessed by "demons" is in a state of psychosis? just as a person who drowns her 5 kids in a bathtub and says god made her do it is in a state of psychosis..., if gos is unable to intervene on behalf of the innocent he is not god, if god is unwilling to intervene then i refuse to call him god, the ignorant one
im credulous enough to try this one, the things that make people think they are possessed by demons is the same thing that makes priests rape children, serial killers kill and jews christians and muslims try to extinguish each other since their conception,, PSYCHOSIS , if you say the devil did it, i say why did god allow the devil to do it, exspecially in the case of priests raping children. please explain that to me? because im ignorant
god doesnt let the demon enter.. you let it enter by not letting the savior in your heart.. priests raping children has nothing to do with god that is their own choice.. same for a regular man that rapes.. i never said u were ignorant.. i said u were ignorant in the aspect of the rapture.. meaning you do not know very much about it
if you were an all knowing and all loving god would you allow demons to possess the hearts of people just because you hadnt yet assured them of your existence? would you allow your priests, speakers of your living word and shepherds of your herd to act on thaughts "the devil put in their minds" and rape innocent god believing children? you would allow these priests free will to desecrate the innosence of god fearing children? priests free will vs childs ass which do you save, the ignorant one
once again i didnt call you ignorant.. so what you're saying is god is real.. because if you believe in demons then u hav belief in something so ur not even atheist. god gave us our own minds to do with them as we please.. we are not walking around like zombies being controlled by the lord, those priests took it upon themselves to commit those crimes.. satan is here to convince us that doing the bad thing would be better for us.. not to control us
if at any time my argument gets old just let me know and i'll stop, i love to debate, ok, because i used your word "demon" in a hypathetical question does not mean i believe in them, also i understand your argument about "god gave us our own minds to use" however that doesnt answer the question, why does god not intervene on the side of the child who gets molested, whether by priests or someone else? screw the rapists free will, is god able to intervene? does he not want to?
well since you know everything.. what do you think about the rapture.. the bible predicted everything about the last days.. from plague and famine to israel becoming a nation again.. i guess you would be given no choice but to believe in god if u were to be left behind?
christians have been predicting this so called rapture since the beginning of christianity, if the rapture does happen, i hope i am left behind because i dont want to spend eternity on my knees worshiping yours or anybody elses god, all predictions are either set up to come true by the prophet or left vague and generalized so that any number of events can be made to fit the prophecy, if the rapture happened and you werent taken what would you do? start preparing your excuse for 2013
lol.. vague and generalized profecies, i think u should look more into the profecies that have been fulfilled.. and obviously your ignorant in the aspect of the rapture.. if i were to be left behind i would prepare for the 7 years of tribulation.. and not denounce god during this time so it would be possible to live eternally with the lord
ok maybe your right maybe im ignorant on the subject of the rapture, but my impression was only the people who god deemed worthy would be taken in the rapture, and if thats true doesnt that mean if u arent taken you are not worthy and thus going to hell according to your book, what is your idea of living eternally with the lord, if its eternal worship feel free to count me out, p.s. although i agree i am ignorant on many things u calling me ignorant is not very christian of u,,
i know your not asking me but, if i were to be left behind and the rapture actually took place yeah i guess i would have to believe some kind of christian god existed and i would then have to try to fight against him somehow, i mean seriously you know that saying WWJD? read your bible and everytime and event occurs put that in, god saw so and so doing something wrong so he killed them,,,, wwjd? your god sure loves to kill people he doesnt agree with, sound like anyone else in history,,,
Doesn't this warrior guy know that reason is what needs to be suspended in order to become a Xtian. What a freakin nutjob this guy is eh? He must have a double digit IQ !
I became "saved" at the age of 12-13. Remained highly religious and devoted until about 23. Then the deconversion process started. The next 4 years led to me becoming an atheist.
(I'm about 90% certain on those time periods...give or take a year or two here or there.)
You never truly established root in Christ Jesus because of the temptations & trials. YOu traded your soul for wordly pleasures. How foolish it is to trade a diamond for a rotton apple.
The Word of God through Jesus CHrist describes people like you.
Luk 8:13 And those on the rock are they which, when they have heard, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
You hear the Word of God, you receive it & for a while believe it & believe your being a christian. But then trials & temptations come and you fall away, never having truly partook of Christ because: YOU HAD NO ROOT.
A Christian produces fruit, is dead to sin, walks in newness of life, has Christ in them. To suggest you 'partook' of all these things & then turned your back on them clealy reveals you were only deceiving yourself into thinking you were a Christian. A Christian aka Child of God receives chastening for worldy behaviour & will until the time they die because God disciplines His children. You cannot become a child of God & then not become one, that isnt part of the covenant agreement.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the evil one, and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. This is he that was sown by the way side
Mat 13:20 And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth
FOR THE LAST TIME...Yes, I used to be a Christian!
This title suggest that you were regenerate & then became unregenrate. This in fact is not possible. People who state 'they were christains and are no longer', never truly became christian. They deceived themselves in thinking they were. To stop trusting in Christ means you never partook of Him in the first place.
Heb 3:14 for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end:
Well, you are starting from the position that your religion is true and that there is a such thing as your god and your Jesus to "partake"...
Meanwhile, you fail to realize that you are making a claim to which you have ABSOLUTELY NO KNOWLEDGE! You don't know what I did or didn't do to say that I was never "truly" a Christian. There is NOTHING that you have done that you can say makes you a "true" Christian that I can't say as well.
I dont need to know you to understand you never truly partook of Christ. The bible teaches once your adopted into the family you never leave it nor stop trusting in Christ. So you never truly became a Christian if you stopped trusting in Christ. This is basic biblical theology.
There are many evidences that 1 has partook of Christ Jesus.
1. The chastening of God
2. Walking in Gods commands
3. Fruit of the Spirit
4. Change in your effections (you like & dislike what God does)
5. You have a hatred for sin
6. Some may receive spiritual gifts (i.e tongues)
7. Being led by the Spirit of God
Feeling strongly about Christ isnt partaking of Christ. It is of FAITH that one partakes of Jesus. We are in end times and there are many false doctrines in the world now.
I can prove it by simply saying you no longer seek after Jesus.
Luk 8:13 And those on the rock are they which, when they have heard, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
You gave up seeking Him because of the temptations & trials therefore u never truly got born again into Gods family. You 'tried' being a Christian in your own strength and failed, it comes from the strength of the Spirit when your born again.
because I remember when I was a Christian I had to really wonder about that myself...how could someone abandon the belief? It left doubts...not why I deconverted...but the less doubts they can have the better...
Pshaw! You're not a REAL atheist! If you were a REAL atheist, you'd have the Thomas Paine home pregnancy kit, the Robert Ingersoll bed spread and the super secret Madalyn Murray O'Hair decoder ring!
To me croadwarrior cares more about glorifying himself and winning debates rather than his actual religion. I am not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.
Why does religion use a textbook which is thousands of years old...while textbooks in other subjects were written in the 21st century? I'm not an atheist or agnostic...but I think we need to do a lot of re-thinking about life, the universe, and everything. Jesus loves the warrior dude...but most people think he's an idiot. Sorry warrior dude...the devil made me say it.
According to Christianity a lot of things are true that patently aren't though, eh? Like those the 'spirit' has 'touched' being able to 'speak in tongues', drink poison and so on. But there, mustn't get too analytical and ruin things, must we?
I believe you were a Christian, one of those "intellectual" ones. But you never seem to have had a genuine, close relationship with God, because if you had, you would still be a Christian.
Did you ever read the Parable of the Prodigal Son?
Maranatha...You are dealing with someone who doesn't get the basics of Christian theology. Spiritual regeneration obviously doesn't involve physical body parts. That's just silly. KH's response to you shows that IF he had any good grasp of orthodox Christian theology, then it's far gone now.
I think the gentleman knows exactly what 'spiritual regeneration' means. You see, people like KH are aware that 'spiritual' is a synonym of 'imaginary'.
Misterb0z...The problem is, KH in comments shows that he doesn't truly understand what "spiritual regeneration" is, as the Bible does not argue it affects the body as he argued. There is no Biblical evidence to support some "imaginary" claims. That is his assumption.
Are you saying that you feel there is no grounds for saying that some kind embellishment of truth is taking part in historical writings? Or that the Bible is exempt from such embellishments? You see to an atheist, the kind or rebirth spoken of by people such as yourself has the same ring to it as the promises made by those Heaven's Gate guys in the 90's.
MLJ, what evidence do you have that there is anything "new" about a person when this supposedly happens?
If a person were ACTUALLY "regenerated" then all scars and missing body parts would grow back, wouldn't they? Yet that doesn't happen. Old skin tissue would become NEW skin tissue. Yet that doesn't happen either, does it?
Since you have no evidence that any of this ACTUALLY happens, it's just an assumption. And you can't assume that I didn't have the same assumption as you back then.
KingHeathen, you bring up brilliant points, and you've been a great source of information of me. I love all your videos and you make great points, however,
you really need to work on your video editing skills. xD
Hey King I never was a true Christian. I will freely admit it. I tried with all my heart to find Jesus but never found the love. I spent hours and hours in prayer and deep meditation and came up empty. My little skeptical voice within just would not shut the fuck up.
Some bastard told me I never truly tried to find God and that is why I failed. God Damn that pissed me off If I could regain all that lost energy I used in my search for God I could tack on an extra 20 years to my life.
Hey heathen. I love you king, I really do, but you must be really really bored to bother with the stupidest of the stupid. I mean... I know u know u aren't doing anything except maybe at most entertaining some of us equally bored heathens but this one didn't cut it. I turned it off half way through cause I knew what u would say before u did and it's not entertaining. Your video will probably be watched by more Christians and knowing that they don't have the capacity to listen, what r u doing?
watch part 2, it should clear up why I made the video...CRW was just the level of intelligence I wanted to display using such logic as I finished the reply to the general argument "for the last time"
i either love or hate croadwarrior, i don't know which.
the man is either a complete buffoon, or a subtle comic genius.
human beings have to prove the existence of god, how can someone or some thing not be sitting back and laughing? people are probably television for god.
"Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should have never found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning." -C.S Lewis, "Mere Christianity". Read it yo!
This argument uses as a premise that knowledge/meaning is impossible without God. Obviously, someone who doesn't believe in God rejects this premise, making this argument unpersuasive. This argument only makes sense if you already accept that knowledge/meaning is only possible with the existence of God, which would make you a theist (or a nihilist atheist, or a hardcore agnostic).
Can we agree that meaning and purpose are fairly interchangeable words in this case? OK, so if there is no "God", "this" all came about by a very very long series of chances. Essentially, we are a grand accident, right? Really think about that quote again. If you there was no light in the universe, you wouldn't have evolved eyes right? And since there is no light, and you don't have eyes, what would dark mean to you? Nothing. You would never discover that the universe was "dark".
"Purpose" and "meaning" are not exactly interchangeable. People can make their own meanings of things and events even if those things were accidents with no purpose. If I got into a car crash after drinking, then that car crash would mean a lot to me. It would lead me to change my lifestyle, if it didn't cripple me. The event would have subjective meaning -- I would use the experience to become more responsible -- even though it had no purpose. Winning the lottery is the same sort of situation.
In the same way, if there was no purpose to the universe (only something created can have purpose right? Either something was purposeful, or on accident, those are opposites). how would we have discovered that there was no meaning? I think that it's pretty easy to agree that we can't discover something that doesn't exist anywhere right? Lol absurd thought huh?... To discover something that doesn't at all exist...
God was not created. Therefore, God has no purpose.
"we can't discover something that doesn't exist anywhere"
There are many things that people have sought which don't really exist. Alchemy for instance. Or Bigfoot. Or a weight loss plan that involves no sacrifice. There are many things and ideas that can be imagined but which don't exist.
Individual things in our lives have meaning to us. Naturally, we try to project that to the whole universe.
"Supposing science ever became complete so that it knew every single thing in the whole universe, is it not plain that the questions, 'Why is there a universe?' 'Why does it go on as it does?', 'Has it any meaning?' would remain just as they were?"
"If there were a controlling power outside the universe, it could not show itself to us as one of the facts inside the universe- no more than an architect of a house could actually be wall or staircase or staircase in that house. The only way in which we could expect it to show itself would be inside ourselves as an influence or a command trying to get us to behave in a certain way. And that is just what we do find in ourselves. Surely this ought to arouse our suspicions?"
Don't waste your time with dumb questions. "If God is so powerful, can he create a rock so big that even he can't lift it?" Lol, use your noggin amigo
This question isn't at all like the omnipotentce paradox cliche. You are saying that God is so vastly impotent that he can't show himself in a manner that is objective to all people. He wouldn't have to show all of his power (that would be impossible for anyone less than God to understand), but he could show enough of it for all people to realize that there is a God, just like there is the Sun.
God could have made people to be more easily impressed.
More importantly, this argument is for an innate sense of "God" in human beings. Since humans can feel God, there must be a god. The problem of course is that the human curiosity about the supernatural is common but not universal. Most people who do believe in God have wildly different interpretations of him/it.
Most people have innate morality, but these moral senses may be very different. Some lack a moral sense altogether.
This is supposed to be the omnipotent creator of the universe, yet he can't do something as simple as letting everyone knows he exists. He can give everyone a heart that instinctively pumps blood constantly for the entirety of their lives, yet he can't give people brains with a universal set of morality or concept of God.
Even if God COULDN'T reveal himself objectively to everyone, he could still reveal himself subjectively to everyone. He has not. I'm wondering what's up with that.
God could easily telepathically speak to everyone in the world, proving to them that he's the one true god named Yahweh, and he would do such a perfect job of convincing us subjectively that every single person in the world would believe in the exact same way.
Jesus said that a perverse generation asks for sign... I really don't think that God is down for just proving himself flat out, and eliminating the need for faith.
"Even if God COULDN'T reveal himself objectively to everyone, he could still reveal himself subjectively to everyone." How are you sure about the difference between what He can do, and what He will do? It's thinking like this that makes God smaller than He really is, we make up our own thoughts about Him based on what WE would do.
Faith only exists as a concept because there is little to no evidentiary reason to believe in God -- not the other way around! It's funny how God makes his existence perfectly obvious to people- but only people who lived in the past, with few witnesses.
God flat out presented himself to Abraham and Moses. Jesus appeared before his disciples and to Paul. Those people supposedly got the benefit of direct observation of God, yet the rest of us get screwed over.
What's so great about faith in the existence of God?
The faith required for religious belief isn't simply "trust"- the kind of faith we can have in our friends and family. No, religious faith hinges on our answer to a factual yes/no question- Does God exist? Or, does YHWH exist? Or, does [insert deity here] exist.
I could really love Jesus and think he's a great character, and that if he were real, he would care about me and answer my prayers. But the fact is, no matter how great a god character is, if he doesn't exist, he doesn't exist! No matter how great a non-existent being would hypothetically be, he can't self-materialize.
There are two senses of "faith" that get conflated.
One is the trust that one may have in friends or family. For instance, I could have "faith" that my Dad will provide for my family.
There is another sense of "faith" which hinges on whether something even exists. How is this kind of "faith" a virtue?
If the existence of the Christian God were a proven fact, then "faith" in his deeds and motives may be something to be rewarded. That's not the way it is in real life.
The faith of Abraham may have been something to be rewarded (although maybe he had a little too much faith by being prepared to kill his son). The faith of Moses could be rewarded, because God presented himself to Moses.
But for pretty much everyone after them, simply trusting in God was impossible, since the very existence of God was unknown.
To expect someone to both believe in the existence of God without evidence AND trust that he is good is preposterous.
The faith of Christianity is not a faith that God exists, that wouldn't make sense. You can only be a Christian if you are convinced that He does. It's more like the faith that a child has in his father. (Maybe why Christians often call God father?)
Miracles happen every day. I've shook hands with peoples who's cancer disappeared over night. I have literally seen people who were crippled walk. Science can indeed confirm that the person no longer has cancer, or that someones leg has somehow had spontaneous muscle redevelopment and reconnected nerves. It can describe the movement and processes of chemicals and cells, but not why or what started the long series of reactions.
? I can't say I've heard of these events ever happening. Which is weird, because most religious jerks like to use everything they can get their hands on to say miracles do happen.
No no, not remission, not shrinking, complete and utter evaporation. Disappearance. It was there for 10 scans before Sunday, and then Monday it's not there at all for any scans after. And I've heard of people who've had limbs begin to regenerate. But of course, even if we watched it happen with our own eyes, it would still be just a parlor trick right? Because that just doesn't happen, so we see it "happen" it couldn't really be happening, huh?
Dead bodies do not come back from the dead, so if we saw that, OBVIOUSLY we wouldn't deny it. Think about that statement. If people believed everything they saw, then there would be a church of Penn and Teller, or perhaps David Copperfield. They do very impressive things, like make an airplane or quarter "disappear" from inside your hand. But that's impossible right? So you say, that's a trick, it couldn't be. What makes you think it would be any different if you saw a "miracle"?
Yes, but Penn and Teller don't do it in lab conditions, with trained observers, do they?
I'm very well aware of what I'm saying. That's why I keep saying (though maybe it was in a different thread) that these miracles need to be performed in lab conditions with trained observers.
Making a quarter disappear is completely different than having an amputee (verified by x-ray) regrow his limb.
Don't pretend you don't understand the difference.
Exactly. You are convinced that God exists, therefore you don't need evidence of his existence. All you need to do is study the Bible and believe that Gods intentions are good.
I, on the other hand, am not convinced of God's very existence. Therefore, it is silly of me to put my trust in God, no matter how great he would potentially be if he did exist. For me, it's like putting faith in Santa Claus. Santa is awesome. He's extraordinarily kind and generous. But he doesn't exist.
I think I must just have to come out of YT hibernation and make a video about these two types of "faith."
What it boils down to is that Christians, in order to believe in God (without some sort of epiphany or vision), need to rely on the Bible. In order to have faith in the fact of God's existence, one must have trust-faith in the authors of the BIble (but not, for instance, in Muhammed).
Christians take what they know on authority. So do you right? After all, you've never performed an experiment, or created a formula to show that the big band created the universe, you've taken it on the authority of others. You read it in a text book, or heard it from a professor. Anything you know about ancient or even semi modern history you know because some one else told you about it. And you also believe that there are credible sources, and non-credible sources right? Same with Christians.
Yes and no. Scientific understanding is applicable to the real world. Although I haven't performed any major, groundbreaking experiments, I can trust the experiments of scientists because their results bring about knowledge that is demonstrable. For instance, I don't know exactly how a computer works, but I can tell that the experimentation that went into developing computers did work, since I'm using a computer right now.
You and I both use knowledge gained by people much smarter than us. However, neither of us need to take such knowledge on authority, since its applications show the truth of the underlying principles.
Theological understanding, on the other hand, cannot produce anything demonstrably true. Theology has evolved, but there is still no way to tell if a conception of God is any more or less accurate. For all we know, God could actually be an old man with a beard. We'd find out when we die, I guess.
something tells me this guy wasn't loved enough as a kid. and i have no idea what he's trying to get across with that image.
sympathies to this road warrior-wannabe christian retard
infernalone666 1 month ago in playlist For the last time!
This whole thing confuses me. I go to great lengths to make sure people cant find out i used to be xtian. I dont ever want to be associated with people like captain spike pads here. It's like your saying hey i used to think slavery, child sacrifice and incest was a cool thing. Somebody says NO YOU DIDNT and you somehow feel you need to defend the fact that you might have. If they claiming you never where its like a "getting out of being thought of as stupid" free card.
myjizzureye 2 years ago
you make an excellent point.
KingHeathen 2 years ago
to bad
Holyboy1978 2 years ago
i'm laughing hard, trying to imagine a bunch of scientists discussing on a conference, all dressed up as ridiculous superheroes and waving fingers into each other's faces.
PortCharmers 2 years ago
No disrespect Heathen, but, I do not believe that you were actually born again. It is possible to pray the prayer of Salvation and NOT have the faith that God would actually save you. For yrs I thought I was saved. I remember praying the prayer of Salvation when I was young, as I grew up in church. It wasn't until I was 21, when I actually felt the power of the Lord come into my heart and change me on the inside.
Would you care to give your testimony of Salvation?
Holyboy1978 2 years ago
Yeah, no disrespect to you either...but you also weren't actually born again. See not only did I have faith that God WOULD save me...but I thought he DID.
So again, you aren't saved...you aren't a real Christian. You'll probably leave the faith later in life which will prove that you aren't really saved now.
KingHeathen 2 years ago
what about the Testimony?
And how long were you saved, if you please sir?
Holyboy1978 2 years ago
I considered myself saved from about 13 till my early 20's. As to the rest of the story, I've already explained to you why I don't play that game....it's a bastardized version of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. I'm not interested in your rabbit hole.
KingHeathen 2 years ago
This is no Rabbit hole. Heathen, you sounded like I did at the age of 15. I thought I was saved to, just because I was raised in church and my family forced me to go. IT wasn't until I was 21 I realized that i was not saved. I even took up for God when I was 15-19 until I really found out how much fun sin was. At 17 I left the church and found many so called friends that welcomed me to the rave and party life.
Holyboy1978 2 years ago
Sin is fun, until it leaves you dead, or almost dead. This is how I knew that I was not saved, because I loved sin so much (parties with friends, drugs alcohol, porn stars, cursing every breath. This was my life. Oh yea, I knew that I was not saved, but I didn't care either. I wanted to live my own life with no one forcing me to do anything.
Holyboy1978 2 years ago
If you have been truly saved you delight in following Christ and you will never disagree with the Bible. However, because we still have a sinful nature until we receive our new body in heaven, we will live in struggle with sin. Though by prayer we can overcome sin. We are no longer bound by sin. And though a Christian will struggle with their sinful flesh nature, they no NO LONGER consume their self with sin without any having concern for grieving the Holy Spirit that lives in them.
Holyboy1978 2 years ago
So know you claim that you STILL struggle with sin even though you are no longer BOUND by sin...so you have to pray to OVERCOME sin, which means you still WANT to sin, which means you must not ACTUALLY be saved.
Now, me. When I was "saved" had NO desire to sin. RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of puberty, I didn't masturbate because it was supposed to be a sin. I didn't lust after girls, didn't cuss, didn't...well...anything. My doubts didn't begin out of a desire to sin. It came from QUESTIONS.
KingHeathen 2 years ago
The questions led me to want to find the solution and strengthen my faith. The search led to MORE QUESTIONS. At NO point was sinning ever a factor. And to this day, I lead a very ethical and respectable life. Your desperate attempt to label me as "not a real Christian" fails miserably as it would appear that the very things you claim I have which are supposed to suggest that I wasn't....YOU have...and I don't.
So again...I say, YOU aren't a real Christian.
KingHeathen 2 years ago
So...pay close attention here...you decided that you weren't REALLY saved before because you started doing things you now think are wrong...
But NOW, you think you ARE saved because you don't do them NOW. But you USED to think that you WERE saved...and now you think you ARE saved...
So all it would take to prove that you AREN'T saved, by your own definition, is for you to do ONE SOLITARY sin....uh oh....looks like you are about to contradict yourself...
KingHeathen 2 years ago
Do you face book at all? I would like to add you as a friend.. You bring up some intriguing conversation. What is you Face book if you have one?
Holyboy1978 2 years ago
No, I don't.
KingHeathen 2 years ago
Well played sir, id run from this loony also
myjizzureye 2 years ago
Comment removed
Holyboy1978 2 years ago
You sound just like Nicodemus in the book of John, because you have never been born again. Being born again is something that takes place in the Spiritual man. Not in the natural. There is a Spiritual birth that takes place and Christ lives in your heart.
Joh 3:5-6
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Holyboy1978 2 years ago
I was "born again" as you would call it...turns out, it's not real. So if I thought I was born again and it turns out I wasn't...what makes you so sure that you aren't just as mistaken?
KingHeathen 2 years ago
Testimony?
And how long if you have the time sir?
Holyboy1978 2 years ago
please. please. make him stop pointing at me.
andmarikis 2 years ago
it would take all day to explain to mr warrior that he is not smart enough to understand the basics of why he is stupid
penvsword 2 years ago
You were never a Christian........ If you were a real Christian you would still be one..........
BASSCHAMP101 2 years ago
no, he was a real christian.. All KH did was grow out that huge fairy tale. Kind of like you probably grew out of your belief in Santa Claus. Just because you did, it doesn't mean you weren't a true Santa believer. Get my point?
JoseEatsAirplane 2 years ago
king heathen how can u ask "who is he talking to" is it a shock he has imaginary friends? come on, we both know better lol
coolbeens21 2 years ago
you have a point.
KingHeathen 2 years ago
The guy with the football armor and spikes is a nutjob
MistressDracona 2 years ago
The Christian dude with the spikes is on crack.
philip0460 2 years ago
Good job!
Some low blows in the beginning. Mind you, I agree with the criticisms but with the way these guys are, they're likely to accuse you of confusing production quality with bad logic.
Such intentional ignorance from these folk!
Their pastors give them these pieces of bad logic to make them feel better about their beliefs. Then they bring it out to the public and get refuted.
I think they can see the faults, but they ignore the refutations and argue as though they still made sense.
djvardar 3 years ago
Great video, your awesome : )
FreeUpYourMind 3 years ago
This guy is not a very good example of a Christian person.
nebuersirob 3 years ago
Most of us understand that he is not a good example of a Christian, but there is a growing argument of ignorance circulating youtube from (I think, mostly born-agains / baptists / evangelicals) that there can be no converts out of Christianity. Their argument is grounded on faulty logic that they tout as sound reasoning. To them, if you are an atheist now, you were never actually Christian to begin with.
djvardar 3 years ago
False. being born again means(lots of christian screw this up)being born again in spirit in to God's kingdom.physical can only give birth to the physical. spiritual can only give birth to the spiritaul John 3:5-6. so once u die u become into God's kingdom as a spirit.Also when u die and dont believe ur literally just dead. hundreds of times God tell us that if u dont believe u will be dead 4ever,the second death. he never says spiritually u'll be dead. he does say ur spirit will be dead.big diff
Drykkuv 3 years ago
just curious Drykkuv...what denomination are you?
KingHeathen 3 years ago
im actually not part of a denomination. im more, i guess, hardcore then those churches. they have so many flaws and dont follow God's law. Ive been studying the bible like crazy the last month and found many things they dont do. then i found out that simon the magician started catholicism and everything is based off that except the Church Of God(the one the disciples started). one thing i do appreciate is that ur reasonable when u respond to me. thanks for that.
Drykkuv 3 years ago
is your interpretation of death for non-believers just something you came up with or did you learn it through a church that you had attended?
KingHeathen 3 years ago
no actually i read it in the bible. i read a different book that also told it to me. many verses talking about the afterlife say this. like the verse john 3:5-6. also not once does God say u got to an eternal punishment. he says u die. the eternal punishment is for satan.
Drykkuv 3 years ago
I was just asking as there are a few different denominations that do teach this...of course they don't get much publicity compared to the hell fire and brimstone guys.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
ya i no but they still dont follow the bible completely. thats y im not part of one.
Drykkuv 3 years ago
Man.. I wish people would just let everyone believe what they want to believe and shut the fuck up about it.
consciencematter 3 years ago
Stop spamming my channel..."you're just making yourself look like a child, man."
Seriously...If I find this on another video after today, I'm blocking you. Don't spam my channel.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Hahah. You're a pretty hostile little fellow.
consciencematter 3 years ago
you find that to be "hostile?"
I think you need a dictionary.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
ahhhh ... he is no match for you KH, find a Muslim !
ryzahlic 3 years ago
The guy describes being born again in 2 ways.
1) physically being born
2) spiritually being born
Difference = when you are spiritually born again you have christ within you. You cannot be "unborn" because even if you fall away from God, His presence is still in you.
Being born again does not create an "unreal person". You become new in the sense that with God in your life you will change your ways and walk with Him
yekaternaninski 3 years ago
Prove god and ill take you up on that.
XChillX42 3 years ago
Imaginefree69 3 years ago
Here's the passage
Hebrews chapter 6:4 - 6
it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come—6 and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance
Imaginefree69 3 years ago
and people that commit murders and say the devil made them do it are probably in a state of psychosis.. thats not what exorcism is
hurricanelogan 3 years ago
i love your idea of people doing bad things because they are in a state of psychosis, wish i had thaught of that.. is it possible that someone acting like they are possessed by "demons" is in a state of psychosis? just as a person who drowns her 5 kids in a bathtub and says god made her do it is in a state of psychosis..., if gos is unable to intervene on behalf of the innocent he is not god, if god is unwilling to intervene then i refuse to call him god, the ignorant one
xd1rtx 3 years ago
and please explain exorcism.. what is it that makes those people act like the way they do..
hurricanelogan 3 years ago
exorcism? That's the best you've got? EXORCISM?! please...you are obviously not worth the time.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
umm good explanation dude??? lol
hurricanelogan 3 years ago
im credulous enough to try this one, the things that make people think they are possessed by demons is the same thing that makes priests rape children, serial killers kill and jews christians and muslims try to extinguish each other since their conception,, PSYCHOSIS , if you say the devil did it, i say why did god allow the devil to do it, exspecially in the case of priests raping children. please explain that to me? because im ignorant
xd1rtx 3 years ago
god doesnt let the demon enter.. you let it enter by not letting the savior in your heart.. priests raping children has nothing to do with god that is their own choice.. same for a regular man that rapes.. i never said u were ignorant.. i said u were ignorant in the aspect of the rapture.. meaning you do not know very much about it
hurricanelogan 3 years ago
if you were an all knowing and all loving god would you allow demons to possess the hearts of people just because you hadnt yet assured them of your existence? would you allow your priests, speakers of your living word and shepherds of your herd to act on thaughts "the devil put in their minds" and rape innocent god believing children? you would allow these priests free will to desecrate the innosence of god fearing children? priests free will vs childs ass which do you save, the ignorant one
xd1rtx 3 years ago
once again i didnt call you ignorant.. so what you're saying is god is real.. because if you believe in demons then u hav belief in something so ur not even atheist. god gave us our own minds to do with them as we please.. we are not walking around like zombies being controlled by the lord, those priests took it upon themselves to commit those crimes.. satan is here to convince us that doing the bad thing would be better for us.. not to control us
hurricanelogan 3 years ago
if at any time my argument gets old just let me know and i'll stop, i love to debate, ok, because i used your word "demon" in a hypathetical question does not mean i believe in them, also i understand your argument about "god gave us our own minds to use" however that doesnt answer the question, why does god not intervene on the side of the child who gets molested, whether by priests or someone else? screw the rapists free will, is god able to intervene? does he not want to?
xd1rtx 3 years ago
well since you know everything.. what do you think about the rapture.. the bible predicted everything about the last days.. from plague and famine to israel becoming a nation again.. i guess you would be given no choice but to believe in god if u were to be left behind?
hurricanelogan 3 years ago
christians have been predicting this so called rapture since the beginning of christianity, if the rapture does happen, i hope i am left behind because i dont want to spend eternity on my knees worshiping yours or anybody elses god, all predictions are either set up to come true by the prophet or left vague and generalized so that any number of events can be made to fit the prophecy, if the rapture happened and you werent taken what would you do? start preparing your excuse for 2013
xd1rtx 3 years ago
lol.. vague and generalized profecies, i think u should look more into the profecies that have been fulfilled.. and obviously your ignorant in the aspect of the rapture.. if i were to be left behind i would prepare for the 7 years of tribulation.. and not denounce god during this time so it would be possible to live eternally with the lord
hurricanelogan 3 years ago
ok maybe your right maybe im ignorant on the subject of the rapture, but my impression was only the people who god deemed worthy would be taken in the rapture, and if thats true doesnt that mean if u arent taken you are not worthy and thus going to hell according to your book, what is your idea of living eternally with the lord, if its eternal worship feel free to count me out, p.s. although i agree i am ignorant on many things u calling me ignorant is not very christian of u,,
xd1rtx 3 years ago
if you arent taken up by the rapture u are given a second chance in the tribulation
hurricanelogan 3 years ago
i know your not asking me but, if i were to be left behind and the rapture actually took place yeah i guess i would have to believe some kind of christian god existed and i would then have to try to fight against him somehow, i mean seriously you know that saying WWJD? read your bible and everytime and event occurs put that in, god saw so and so doing something wrong so he killed them,,,, wwjd? your god sure loves to kill people he doesnt agree with, sound like anyone else in history,,,
xd1rtx 3 years ago
Doesn't this warrior guy know that reason is what needs to be suspended in order to become a Xtian. What a freakin nutjob this guy is eh? He must have a double digit IQ !
nogogma 3 years ago
May i ask how long you tried being a Christian for?
coreva 3 years ago
I became "saved" at the age of 12-13. Remained highly religious and devoted until about 23. Then the deconversion process started. The next 4 years led to me becoming an atheist.
(I'm about 90% certain on those time periods...give or take a year or two here or there.)
KingHeathen 3 years ago
when u were a child did you get beat up or pick on in school? or any bad shit that happen
in life as a kid? if so then i can excuse all these videos you posting on youtube lmao....
Kriss310 3 years ago
well dude what do you have to lose by being a christian..
hurricanelogan 3 years ago
LMAO! What do you have to lose by being a Hindu?
This is just a washed out version of Pascal's Wager. Watch my 2nd part of my "For the last time" series.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Col 2:7 rooted and builded up in him.
You never truly established root in Christ Jesus because of the temptations & trials. YOu traded your soul for wordly pleasures. How foolish it is to trade a diamond for a rotton apple.
coreva 3 years ago
The Word of God through Jesus CHrist describes people like you.
Luk 8:13 And those on the rock are they which, when they have heard, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
You hear the Word of God, you receive it & for a while believe it & believe your being a christian. But then trials & temptations come and you fall away, never having truly partook of Christ because: YOU HAD NO ROOT.
coreva 3 years ago
A Christian produces fruit, is dead to sin, walks in newness of life, has Christ in them. To suggest you 'partook' of all these things & then turned your back on them clealy reveals you were only deceiving yourself into thinking you were a Christian. A Christian aka Child of God receives chastening for worldy behaviour & will until the time they die because God disciplines His children. You cannot become a child of God & then not become one, that isnt part of the covenant agreement.
coreva 3 years ago
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the evil one, and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. This is he that was sown by the way side
Mat 13:20 And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth
coreva 3 years ago
For if you put this verse in the negative you will clearly see what i mean.
Heb 3:14 for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end:
Heb 3:14 for we are (NOT) become partakers of Christ, if we hold (NOT) fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end:
coreva 3 years ago
FOR THE LAST TIME...Yes, I used to be a Christian!
This title suggest that you were regenerate & then became unregenrate. This in fact is not possible. People who state 'they were christains and are no longer', never truly became christian. They deceived themselves in thinking they were. To stop trusting in Christ means you never partook of Him in the first place.
Heb 3:14 for we are become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence firm unto the end:
coreva 3 years ago
Well, you are starting from the position that your religion is true and that there is a such thing as your god and your Jesus to "partake"...
Meanwhile, you fail to realize that you are making a claim to which you have ABSOLUTELY NO KNOWLEDGE! You don't know what I did or didn't do to say that I was never "truly" a Christian. There is NOTHING that you have done that you can say makes you a "true" Christian that I can't say as well.
The difference is that I now know better!
KingHeathen 3 years ago
I dont need to know you to understand you never truly partook of Christ. The bible teaches once your adopted into the family you never leave it nor stop trusting in Christ. So you never truly became a Christian if you stopped trusting in Christ. This is basic biblical theology.
coreva 3 years ago
I thought I HAD partaken of Christ. I felt STRONGLY about this.
I suppose you feel the same way now. NOW, I feel as though that was just an illusion that my mind created.
What makes you so sure that YOU have "truly partook of Christ"? What physical evidence can you give? What evidence of ANY KIND can you give?
PROVE TO ME that you have done this but I didn't.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
There are many evidences that 1 has partook of Christ Jesus.
1. The chastening of God
2. Walking in Gods commands
3. Fruit of the Spirit
4. Change in your effections (you like & dislike what God does)
5. You have a hatred for sin
6. Some may receive spiritual gifts (i.e tongues)
7. Being led by the Spirit of God
Feeling strongly about Christ isnt partaking of Christ. It is of FAITH that one partakes of Jesus. We are in end times and there are many false doctrines in the world now.
coreva 3 years ago
1-Define that.
2-Did that.
3-Define that.
4-Did that.
5-Did that.
6-Very open to interpretations there, but I'd say it's close enough to call it "Did that"
7-Again, you'll have to define that, but by my best judgment ...DID THAT!
BTW, spare me the Bible quotes. If I don't believe in your Bible, quoting it doesn't do anything to prove your point.
So get back to me with those definitions and we'll see if I did those too.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
I can prove it by simply saying you no longer seek after Jesus.
Luk 8:13 And those on the rock are they which, when they have heard, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
You gave up seeking Him because of the temptations & trials therefore u never truly got born again into Gods family. You 'tried' being a Christian in your own strength and failed, it comes from the strength of the Spirit when your born again.
coreva 3 years ago
Your crystal ball must be broken!
"You gave up seeking Him because of the temptations & trials"
Nope. That isn't what happened. This was a logical decision, not an emotional one.
"You 'tried' being a Christian in your own strength and failed, it comes from the strength of the Spirit when your born again."
Yeah, I thought I had this "spirit" as well...it's an illusion.
I still need definitions on 1 and 3
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Considering the bible predicts the future and many scientific things before man discovered them is fairly good evidence.
coreva 3 years ago
I think its awefully interesting how the religion is connected to the society.
KarinMikazuki 3 years ago
"un born agin,born twice"yes i agree VERRY stupid
Virgo19965 3 years ago
Thank the Lord (yes i am a christian and proud of it) someone has a brain on here.
nightmarescrib 3 years ago
because I remember when I was a Christian I had to really wonder about that myself...how could someone abandon the belief? It left doubts...not why I deconverted...but the less doubts they can have the better...
solidfaith 3 years ago
When you become a real Christian do you get to wear shoulder pads?
AgnosticHippie 3 years ago
Yes you get to wear shoulder pads. But not the custom ones with the spikes, only the ones you see at Sports Authority.
SpeakGodSpeak 3 years ago
How many sock accounts do you have? Or is this just a mirror account for ol' Glen? How twisted does someone have to be to want to be like THAT guy?
BTW, you posted the first post on another video of mine...
I don't allow spamming my channel. Do it again and you will get blocked. Just a fair warning.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Pshaw! You're not a REAL atheist! If you were a REAL atheist, you'd have the Thomas Paine home pregnancy kit, the Robert Ingersoll bed spread and the super secret Madalyn Murray O'Hair decoder ring!
poopnoodle3000 3 years ago
I'm pretty sure wearing that suit is a sin.
drummerofdeath21 3 years ago
{pause 0:18}
wtf
DonHoraldo 3 years ago
To me croadwarrior cares more about glorifying himself and winning debates rather than his actual religion. I am not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.
K2Tanner 3 years ago
Wow.
Completely out of his mind.
ArrogantAtheist 3 years ago
The warrior!!!!!!!!??????
I spit out my coffee at the screen looking at that lame excuse for a fucktard.
Herufaia 3 years ago
Why does religion use a textbook which is thousands of years old...while textbooks in other subjects were written in the 21st century? I'm not an atheist or agnostic...but I think we need to do a lot of re-thinking about life, the universe, and everything. Jesus loves the warrior dude...but most people think he's an idiot. Sorry warrior dude...the devil made me say it.
redletterchurch 3 years ago
You dumbass according to Christianity
once a christian always a christian
there for how the fuck are you an Ex christian
chopstix66 3 years ago
According to Christianity a lot of things are true that patently aren't though, eh? Like those the 'spirit' has 'touched' being able to 'speak in tongues', drink poison and so on. But there, mustn't get too analytical and ruin things, must we?
Misterb0z 3 years ago
the warrior is an idiot
you are an asshole
don't think you are smart just because you have an opinion
Girv20 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
LivingLifeftw101 3 years ago
I believe you were a Christian, one of those "intellectual" ones. But you never seem to have had a genuine, close relationship with God, because if you had, you would still be a Christian.
Did you ever read the Parable of the Prodigal Son?
lmorovan 3 years ago
Maranatha...You are dealing with someone who doesn't get the basics of Christian theology. Spiritual regeneration obviously doesn't involve physical body parts. That's just silly. KH's response to you shows that IF he had any good grasp of orthodox Christian theology, then it's far gone now.
CRoadwarrior 3 years ago
I think the gentleman knows exactly what 'spiritual regeneration' means. You see, people like KH are aware that 'spiritual' is a synonym of 'imaginary'.
Misterb0z 3 years ago
Misterb0z...The problem is, KH in comments shows that he doesn't truly understand what "spiritual regeneration" is, as the Bible does not argue it affects the body as he argued. There is no Biblical evidence to support some "imaginary" claims. That is his assumption.
CRoadwarrior 3 years ago
Are you saying that you feel there is no grounds for saying that some kind embellishment of truth is taking part in historical writings? Or that the Bible is exempt from such embellishments? You see to an atheist, the kind or rebirth spoken of by people such as yourself has the same ring to it as the promises made by those Heaven's Gate guys in the 90's.
Misterb0z 3 years ago
I'm going to check out the copyright of a Bible and say it. Just making sure you understand how fictional and marketed it is.
Deadbirdcheese 3 years ago
MLJ, what evidence do you have that there is anything "new" about a person when this supposedly happens?
If a person were ACTUALLY "regenerated" then all scars and missing body parts would grow back, wouldn't they? Yet that doesn't happen. Old skin tissue would become NEW skin tissue. Yet that doesn't happen either, does it?
Since you have no evidence that any of this ACTUALLY happens, it's just an assumption. And you can't assume that I didn't have the same assumption as you back then.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
part 2 repeats it at the very beginning.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
KingHeathen, you bring up brilliant points, and you've been a great source of information of me. I love all your videos and you make great points, however,
you really need to work on your video editing skills. xD
Cheers!
phatandddrfreak 3 years ago
My 'puter has been giving me issues lately...that's why this one is split like it is instead of all in one.
I think I have that fixed....
not that I don't take the lazy route from time to time.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Hey King I never was a true Christian. I will freely admit it. I tried with all my heart to find Jesus but never found the love. I spent hours and hours in prayer and deep meditation and came up empty. My little skeptical voice within just would not shut the fuck up.
Some bastard told me I never truly tried to find God and that is why I failed. God Damn that pissed me off If I could regain all that lost energy I used in my search for God I could tack on an extra 20 years to my life.
xrayman7040 3 years ago
Wow this guys sounds arrogant as hell!
TheAgnosticAspie 3 years ago
OOhhh, an new person to bitch slap when I come back!
TheAtheistPaladin 3 years ago
Hey I pwned that guys ass in 6 or more comments so he BLOCKS ME lol
WHAT A WUSSIE WARRIOR !
AtheistAtLARGE 3 years ago
2:00
Epic facepalm
SaintRussell1914 3 years ago
And people (sometimes) wonder why I do what I do.
DlVlNATl0Nx 3 years ago
Hey heathen. I love you king, I really do, but you must be really really bored to bother with the stupidest of the stupid. I mean... I know u know u aren't doing anything except maybe at most entertaining some of us equally bored heathens but this one didn't cut it. I turned it off half way through cause I knew what u would say before u did and it's not entertaining. Your video will probably be watched by more Christians and knowing that they don't have the capacity to listen, what r u doing?
newexperiment 3 years ago
prelude to a Dodo...
watch part 2, it should clear up why I made the video...CRW was just the level of intelligence I wanted to display using such logic as I finished the reply to the general argument "for the last time"
KingHeathen 3 years ago
I see you've meet the Warrior.
DeamonCohln 3 years ago
Zomg facepalm!
vegassilenttype 3 years ago
i either love or hate croadwarrior, i don't know which.
the man is either a complete buffoon, or a subtle comic genius.
human beings have to prove the existence of god, how can someone or some thing not be sitting back and laughing? people are probably television for god.
ElmerLuckySutton 3 years ago
"Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should have never found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be a word without meaning." -C.S Lewis, "Mere Christianity". Read it yo!
trev8908 3 years ago
This argument uses as a premise that knowledge/meaning is impossible without God. Obviously, someone who doesn't believe in God rejects this premise, making this argument unpersuasive. This argument only makes sense if you already accept that knowledge/meaning is only possible with the existence of God, which would make you a theist (or a nihilist atheist, or a hardcore agnostic).
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
Can we agree that meaning and purpose are fairly interchangeable words in this case? OK, so if there is no "God", "this" all came about by a very very long series of chances. Essentially, we are a grand accident, right? Really think about that quote again. If you there was no light in the universe, you wouldn't have evolved eyes right? And since there is no light, and you don't have eyes, what would dark mean to you? Nothing. You would never discover that the universe was "dark".
trev8908 3 years ago
"Purpose" and "meaning" are not exactly interchangeable. People can make their own meanings of things and events even if those things were accidents with no purpose. If I got into a car crash after drinking, then that car crash would mean a lot to me. It would lead me to change my lifestyle, if it didn't cripple me. The event would have subjective meaning -- I would use the experience to become more responsible -- even though it had no purpose. Winning the lottery is the same sort of situation.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
In the same way, if there was no purpose to the universe (only something created can have purpose right? Either something was purposeful, or on accident, those are opposites). how would we have discovered that there was no meaning? I think that it's pretty easy to agree that we can't discover something that doesn't exist anywhere right? Lol absurd thought huh?... To discover something that doesn't at all exist...
trev8908 3 years ago
"only something created can have purpose"
God was not created. Therefore, God has no purpose.
"we can't discover something that doesn't exist anywhere"
There are many things that people have sought which don't really exist. Alchemy for instance. Or Bigfoot. Or a weight loss plan that involves no sacrifice. There are many things and ideas that can be imagined but which don't exist.
Individual things in our lives have meaning to us. Naturally, we try to project that to the whole universe.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
"Supposing science ever became complete so that it knew every single thing in the whole universe, is it not plain that the questions, 'Why is there a universe?' 'Why does it go on as it does?', 'Has it any meaning?' would remain just as they were?"
-C.S Lewis, "Mere Christianity"
trev8908 3 years ago
"If there were a controlling power outside the universe, it could not show itself to us as one of the facts inside the universe- no more than an architect of a house could actually be wall or staircase or staircase in that house. The only way in which we could expect it to show itself would be inside ourselves as an influence or a command trying to get us to behave in a certain way. And that is just what we do find in ourselves. Surely this ought to arouse our suspicions?"
-C.S Lewis
trev8908 3 years ago
'If there were a controlling power outside the universe, it could not show itself to us as one of the facts inside the universe'
If there were things that this controlling power could not do, it wouldn't be omnipotent, would it?
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
Don't waste your time with dumb questions. "If God is so powerful, can he create a rock so big that even he can't lift it?" Lol, use your noggin amigo
trev8908 3 years ago
This question isn't at all like the omnipotentce paradox cliche. You are saying that God is so vastly impotent that he can't show himself in a manner that is objective to all people. He wouldn't have to show all of his power (that would be impossible for anyone less than God to understand), but he could show enough of it for all people to realize that there is a God, just like there is the Sun.
God could have made people to be more easily impressed.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
More importantly, this argument is for an innate sense of "God" in human beings. Since humans can feel God, there must be a god. The problem of course is that the human curiosity about the supernatural is common but not universal. Most people who do believe in God have wildly different interpretations of him/it.
Most people have innate morality, but these moral senses may be very different. Some lack a moral sense altogether.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
This is supposed to be the omnipotent creator of the universe, yet he can't do something as simple as letting everyone knows he exists. He can give everyone a heart that instinctively pumps blood constantly for the entirety of their lives, yet he can't give people brains with a universal set of morality or concept of God.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
Even if God COULDN'T reveal himself objectively to everyone, he could still reveal himself subjectively to everyone. He has not. I'm wondering what's up with that.
God could easily telepathically speak to everyone in the world, proving to them that he's the one true god named Yahweh, and he would do such a perfect job of convincing us subjectively that every single person in the world would believe in the exact same way.
We wouldn't need to be having this conversation.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
Jesus said that a perverse generation asks for sign... I really don't think that God is down for just proving himself flat out, and eliminating the need for faith.
"Even if God COULDN'T reveal himself objectively to everyone, he could still reveal himself subjectively to everyone." How are you sure about the difference between what He can do, and what He will do? It's thinking like this that makes God smaller than He really is, we make up our own thoughts about Him based on what WE would do.
trev8908 3 years ago
"Jesus said that a perverse generation asks for sign..."
Boy, talk about ironic - the provider of signs, while alive and providing signs, proclaims that it's a perverse generation that asks for signs.
How can anyone believe this tripe?
OccamKant 3 years ago
Meaning that you have signs enough, why would you need more?
trev8908 3 years ago
*I* don't have any signs. I have only the bible, a poorly written collection of nonsense, with no evidence or even logic to back it up.
Give me REAL signs - evidence - and I'll be good to go.
The only people afraid to provide evidence are charlatans and fakers.
OccamKant 3 years ago
Faith only exists as a concept because there is little to no evidentiary reason to believe in God -- not the other way around! It's funny how God makes his existence perfectly obvious to people- but only people who lived in the past, with few witnesses.
God flat out presented himself to Abraham and Moses. Jesus appeared before his disciples and to Paul. Those people supposedly got the benefit of direct observation of God, yet the rest of us get screwed over.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
What's so great about faith in the existence of God?
The faith required for religious belief isn't simply "trust"- the kind of faith we can have in our friends and family. No, religious faith hinges on our answer to a factual yes/no question- Does God exist? Or, does YHWH exist? Or, does [insert deity here] exist.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
I could really love Jesus and think he's a great character, and that if he were real, he would care about me and answer my prayers. But the fact is, no matter how great a god character is, if he doesn't exist, he doesn't exist! No matter how great a non-existent being would hypothetically be, he can't self-materialize.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
There are two senses of "faith" that get conflated.
One is the trust that one may have in friends or family. For instance, I could have "faith" that my Dad will provide for my family.
There is another sense of "faith" which hinges on whether something even exists. How is this kind of "faith" a virtue?
If the existence of the Christian God were a proven fact, then "faith" in his deeds and motives may be something to be rewarded. That's not the way it is in real life.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
The faith of Abraham may have been something to be rewarded (although maybe he had a little too much faith by being prepared to kill his son). The faith of Moses could be rewarded, because God presented himself to Moses.
But for pretty much everyone after them, simply trusting in God was impossible, since the very existence of God was unknown.
To expect someone to both believe in the existence of God without evidence AND trust that he is good is preposterous.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
The faith of Christianity is not a faith that God exists, that wouldn't make sense. You can only be a Christian if you are convinced that He does. It's more like the faith that a child has in his father. (Maybe why Christians often call God father?)
trev8908 3 years ago
Ah, but the faith that God exists IS precisely what Christianity revolves around.
You have no evidence to believe God exists, other than warm fuzzies, or maybe voices in your head (but then you have a different problem).
You have faith in God's EXISTENCE, and also his BEHAVIOR.
Of course, both are misplaced, but that is a separate issue.
OccamKant 3 years ago
How would you prove by physical means something that is not physical at all?
trev8908 3 years ago
Easy. Perform some physical miracles. Lots are listed in the bible.
All JC would need to do was bring someone back who had been dead for a week. Or regrow an amputated limb.
If either of those was done during monitored lab conditions, everyone would accept that as evidence.
And those are supposedly old hat for JC anyway, so what's the big deal? Why doesn't he do this to show himself?
Because he's not real, of course.
OccamKant 3 years ago
Miracles happen every day. I've shook hands with peoples who's cancer disappeared over night. I have literally seen people who were crippled walk. Science can indeed confirm that the person no longer has cancer, or that someones leg has somehow had spontaneous muscle redevelopment and reconnected nerves. It can describe the movement and processes of chemicals and cells, but not why or what started the long series of reactions.
trev8908 3 years ago
? I can't say I've heard of these events ever happening. Which is weird, because most religious jerks like to use everything they can get their hands on to say miracles do happen.
sroHex 3 years ago
What do you say to someone who tells you they had confirmed cancer on Sunday and now it's Monday, and it's been confirmed they don't?
trev8908 3 years ago
I'd say it was most likely a misdiagnosis.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Cancer sometimes does go into remission. Even for atheists. Guess what? If it happens naturally, then it's not a miracle.
Dead bodies do not come back to life. Ever.
Amputated limbs don't ever regrow.
Do some ACTUAL miracle and I'll be impressed.
There are no "miracles" that make a scientist go "that is impossible".
A 3 day old dead body coming to life, perfectly healed, would do that. So would a regrown amputated leg.
Someone getting well isn't a miracle. That's SUPPOSED to happen.
OccamKant 3 years ago
No no, not remission, not shrinking, complete and utter evaporation. Disappearance. It was there for 10 scans before Sunday, and then Monday it's not there at all for any scans after. And I've heard of people who've had limbs begin to regenerate. But of course, even if we watched it happen with our own eyes, it would still be just a parlor trick right? Because that just doesn't happen, so we see it "happen" it couldn't really be happening, huh?
trev8908 3 years ago
For fuck's sake, stop saying that!
Limbs do not regrow. Dead bodies do not come back from the dead, so if we saw that, OBVIOUSLY we wouldn't deny it.
How the fuck do you think science works? By denying or ignoring new phenomena?
Also - if your make believe God is all powerful and all knowing, I'm sure he would know a way to convince everyone, right?
And a friend of our family caused her tumor to recede by eating only organic veggies. No points for "god" there.
OccamKant 3 years ago
Dead bodies do not come back from the dead, so if we saw that, OBVIOUSLY we wouldn't deny it. Think about that statement. If people believed everything they saw, then there would be a church of Penn and Teller, or perhaps David Copperfield. They do very impressive things, like make an airplane or quarter "disappear" from inside your hand. But that's impossible right? So you say, that's a trick, it couldn't be. What makes you think it would be any different if you saw a "miracle"?
trev8908 3 years ago
Yes, but Penn and Teller don't do it in lab conditions, with trained observers, do they?
I'm very well aware of what I'm saying. That's why I keep saying (though maybe it was in a different thread) that these miracles need to be performed in lab conditions with trained observers.
Making a quarter disappear is completely different than having an amputee (verified by x-ray) regrow his limb.
Don't pretend you don't understand the difference.
OccamKant 3 years ago
Exactly. You are convinced that God exists, therefore you don't need evidence of his existence. All you need to do is study the Bible and believe that Gods intentions are good.
I, on the other hand, am not convinced of God's very existence. Therefore, it is silly of me to put my trust in God, no matter how great he would potentially be if he did exist. For me, it's like putting faith in Santa Claus. Santa is awesome. He's extraordinarily kind and generous. But he doesn't exist.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
I think I must just have to come out of YT hibernation and make a video about these two types of "faith."
What it boils down to is that Christians, in order to believe in God (without some sort of epiphany or vision), need to rely on the Bible. In order to have faith in the fact of God's existence, one must have trust-faith in the authors of the BIble (but not, for instance, in Muhammed).
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
Christians take what they know on authority. So do you right? After all, you've never performed an experiment, or created a formula to show that the big band created the universe, you've taken it on the authority of others. You read it in a text book, or heard it from a professor. Anything you know about ancient or even semi modern history you know because some one else told you about it. And you also believe that there are credible sources, and non-credible sources right? Same with Christians.
trev8908 3 years ago
Yes and no. Scientific understanding is applicable to the real world. Although I haven't performed any major, groundbreaking experiments, I can trust the experiments of scientists because their results bring about knowledge that is demonstrable. For instance, I don't know exactly how a computer works, but I can tell that the experimentation that went into developing computers did work, since I'm using a computer right now.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago
You and I both use knowledge gained by people much smarter than us. However, neither of us need to take such knowledge on authority, since its applications show the truth of the underlying principles.
Theological understanding, on the other hand, cannot produce anything demonstrably true. Theology has evolved, but there is still no way to tell if a conception of God is any more or less accurate. For all we know, God could actually be an old man with a beard. We'd find out when we die, I guess.
SeenAndNotSeen 3 years ago