Hi-Res WW2 Mystery: ABTF or We Didn't Go Far Enough? P4

[dynmicpara]

A Back-Stab Too Far?

In 1944, knowing WW2 was lost, Martin Bormann and German industrialists began moving Nazi looted wealth into corporations around the world to jump-start the 4th Reich. Operation MARKET-GARDEN's Paratroopers holding bridges across the Rhine river into the German industrial heartland threatened their escape,

[dynmicpara]

so Illuminati member Peter Smith --the famous Grenadier Guards Major who refused to move his tanks past Nijmegen bridge to link-up with Frost's men at Arnhem bridge even when 82nd Airborne Para Infantry offered to clear any AT guns--deliberately sabotaged the mission for the Nazis.

[BMFRU2]

@dynmicpara

2 schools of thought 1) I don't know how I got subscribed 2 Ur site, but I like it.. And 2) As an 82 AA myself, I get what Ur saying.

Smoke this over. quick wars DOESN'T mean new technology. Long drawn out wars do. U think the Jet could've been invented during peace time?

[dynmicpara]

He is known today as Lord Carrington who afterwards chaired the evil Bilderbergers conspiracy group--which first met in Arnhem to mock the dead with their getaway. The brave British troops were betrayed by their officers.

[dynmicpara]

Yet another reason why Airborne units must be complete combined-arms teams with light tanks etc. to prevent political back-stabs. Fascist German/Japanese money stolen from the 62M WW2 dead still runs the world today.

w w w . d e e p b l a c k l i e s . c o . u k / p r i n c e s _ o f _ p l u n d e r . h t m

[BlackCountryPuddler]

0.28.... Alphonse Arsenault.

[robert506007]

well what are you too expect when they only spent three weeks planning and preparing the operation it would have taken them another month at least to prepare that and still more resources on a stretched supply line no less and they can't fly that stuff in there were no C-5's then. The Allies would have lost the initiative if they had taken any longer and the time could have been better spent opening the Scheldt so supplies could flow in giving the allies the initiative again.

[Uberaoshi]

I like that Patton Movie how Patton wanted to kill the Nazis and Soviets at the same time!

Viva Poland-Finland-Czech fighting both Nazi and Soviets!

[soldier4670]

Monty FTW!

[knight6]

if the allied command supported Patton's thrust instead of implementing market garden, would that have been more successful, in your opinion?

[dynmicpara]

That's an easy answer; YES. Patton would have taken what we set out to do by combined-arms adaptability; he would have used 1st Allied Airborne for 3D maneuver--but backed it up with a "Plan B"; imagine if he had Hobart's 79th Armoured attached to him, too?

[Dogmeat1950]

ya Patton was only a short distance away from Germany when market garden happened.

[123lard123]

This would have been possible if Montgomery had taken the initiative to seize the port of Antwerp shortly after the break from Normandy. There was a period of time when lead elements of the 1st Canadian corps could have reached Antwerp entirely unopposed. Antwerp would have solved all of the Allies supply problems and they would have been no need to make a choice between Patton and Montgomery. They could have done both.

[fostaa27]

Good points! But you have overlooked the most important factor in military maneuver: Logistics. Market Garden was planned in less than 2 weeks for a number of factors and it's not like Generals Browning or Horrocks could get on the internet and order Buffalo & Higgins boats to their doorstep. Remember: even if they had thought of bringing forward all these great resources that you "the armchair general" say were overlooked,it's not like they could have brought them down the single road to Arnhem

[dynmicpara]

General Hobart's 79th Armored Division had amphibious tractors and DD swimming Sherman tanks available for M-G. Montgomery was connected to Hobart by his sister. Montgomery was Hobart's commander. He didn't need the internet; just a typewriter and a radio or messenger.

[dynmicpara]

Break out a MAP. There were MANY routes to get to M-G's locales by road and cross-country maneuver by tracks.

Maybe if you were a serving military officer like myself you'd know these basic facts? No, you can do basic research even as a civilian from your "armchair"; suggest you do some.

[saxonwarrior23]

thx

[saxonwarrior23]

thanks for that.

[saxonwarrior23]

what is or the name of the composer for the music

[dynmicpara]

John Addison "A Bridge Too Far" and Hans Zimmer "Batman Begins"

[saxonwarrior23]

music goes really well with the footage nice!

[demakre]

i read that book but in my lenguage :D

[tanks579]

u kno something, the Piats could of helped them, but they had to get really close 2 the tanks, and it took like 3 freaking shots to do any damage to the tank

[cavador2001]

If the Brits were armed with more Piat anti tank bazookas them maybe all the panzer tanks could have been K.O'ed and even up the sides-but like everything else,it just WASN'T thought of at the time!

[looneychicken]

the was the dd tank duplex drive wich was named donald duck wich was the amphibious 1.the min sweeper (the one with the spinning blades)was called the crab

[dreamdextreme]

There always seems to be a lot of holes in history in which practical tactics could of avoided mass casulties but politics always gets in the way of reasoning !

[knight6]

war is the last thing that ever goes according to plan. i forgot who said that but it's true.

[dynmicpara]

Why you make BETTER PLANS and use BETTER EQUIPMENT as portrayed in our Marke-Garden re-think videos.

[knight6]

maybe these BETTER PLANS and BETTER Equipment (and better leadership,personnel,intellige­nce,etc) would have saved market garden or maybe market garden was doomed from the start: lack of intelligence of the panzer divisions in arnhem, XXX corps going on a single road, tougher than expected german resistance, radios not working, weather affecting supply drops, etc. if only there's a time machine to test this THEORY.

[dynmicpara]

There are WAR GAMES and SIMULATIONS that would show that better ways would have worked. Then, we need to TODAY integrate these better ways into how we fight not wail over how tragic it all was or else tragedies will be repeated.

[robert506007]

Sadly lessons are rarely learned in simulations and often only learned through death a hardship despite better ways. It's happen thousands of times before and it will continue to happen thousands of times more.

[dynmicpara]

Sometime things do go according to plans that are FLEXIBLE and have built-in options with equipment that can meet various problems.

[knight6]

war is a continuation of politics through other means.

[dynmicpara]

Not necessarily. There are wars that have nothing to do with any politics. Humans like to fight. Read some Van Crevald. Or watch the news. How many killers in Africa have read Clausewitz?

[knight6]

that depends on how people define politics. the killer(s) in africa may never heard (or even care for that matter) of clausewitz, bush, obama, osama bin laden, mao, marx, jesus, allah, etc., but is killing for his/her own survival or opportunity. to that person or people, politics is using force, the threat of force, money, etc to get ahead and join others who can help him and attack/defend against those who are competing with him. o by the way. i like your videos and discussion.

[dynmicpara]

Again, people can go to war without ANY politics (ie; some kind of IDEA)...it can be pure HATRED, an emotion to kill without ANY rational thought. If you fail to list this in your war causes one will miss a huge human motive and this will hinder any approach to understanding and smothering war in general.

[robert506007]

I would say it's based more on the base human instinct to kill to survive or the feeling that one's survival is threatened and in turn killing to survive. Extreme greed for something your enemy has can also be a factor.

[gerry301]

The problem right from the beginning was Montgomery. Being used to taking his time in North Africa, and now in direct competition with Patten, he insisted on the airborne assault without the equipment and tanks to back it up. The limited access to Arnhem as well as previous intell saying Panzers were in the area never slowed up his plan to show how the British did it. Eisenhower gave support to Mongomerys plan for political reasons to show Montgomery was more than capable. He failed.