Ep 10: Bad Programming Practices

[thatscientificgeek]

Okay, think about this. It took you ten episodes for that. I have experience with C++ and I promise it would be easier if you used a library like SDL. Oh yes you also might want to leave the programmer ALONE. It is extremely hard to program if some guys bitching at you the whole time. Especially if you don't even know wtf hes doing!

[NaveAdair]

@scratchpost It's incredibly hard for an indie dev to get on XBLA, and XBLIG (the easiest thing to get onto) is only for XNA/C# games. So that's why, in a nutshell.

If you make a Limbo or a Castle Crashers in C++, you'll have a shot at XBLA, but even a relatively mediocre indie game can get on the XBLIG marketplace, which requires you to use XNA, it's basically a guarantee.

[NaveAdair]

@scratchpost I suppose I worded my 9-month-old post poorly. I should have asked "how does an indie dev use C/++ to make an Xbox game they intend to release on the marketplace?" Obviously an indie can code for Xbox 360 (and most other platforms) with C/++, but good luck getting that published.

[johngeetar]

@scratchpost Yeah since posting that 7 months ago I found gyrovorbis' channel, joined the forums and hung out a bit in their IRC chat and watched a little of the drama unfold. Ehhh, whatever Falco knows his shit, these guys obviously don't and drama gets old.

[FeeLtheHertZ]

Good job dumb ass haters (NOT YOU JFORCEGAMES), let's see the haters actually see if they "know what the hell they're talking about"...wicked awesome for the programming and idea of making a game.

JForce going in, keep it up!

[Kryomega]

I will follow this project.. I am doing something like this too! if you check my videos, I am working on a 2D animation editor. Hopefully it will make my game visuals very good.

[codeblue9955]

I wouldn't mind you guys.. If you didn't scowled people out of no where

[johngeetar]

did the devs talk some serious shit at some point in time? Why is everyone getting all pissy in the comments? For all the dumbasses saying they should code in c++ why don't you follow your argument to its logical conclusion and demand it be coded in straight machine code?

[Hackerx72]

well, the title describes the video alright...

[SingleBitsMedia]

That my friend, are truly bad programming practices.

[dodobirdies]

Just wth do people mean by indie game....

[DHFORPM]

how much fps , running on that laptop ?

[jonnyeden]

@DHFORPM

Anywhere between 20 and 60, averaging around 30. But that laptop has some compatibility issues. Most other PCs will get 60 consistently, and it really hasn't been optimized much at this point.

[LetsBlob]

Can you publish games with game maker?

[stoffe9522]

what id that program?

[JForceGames]

XNA Game Studio.

[stoffe9522]

does it only works for xbox 360?

[gosje2006]

pc too

[stoffe9522]

sweet, i has to test it, the program i'm using right now is limited to 3D games with 2D sprites -.-

[mymothersmeatloaf]

XNA is for piece of shit programmers that can't make a real game, be a man use c++ stop being pussies

[JForceGames]

What an idiotic opinion. I hope you're not serious.

Gamers don't care at all what the game was made with. All that matters is if it's good or not.

[mymothersmeatloaf]

i would care if the game i was playing was programmed using good programing tools or not...i would hate to know that the game i was playing was made using game maker or something like that. besides XNA is meant for beginner game developers so making shitty little game development videos on how hard it is to program in a language that's meant for beginning programming really isn't that cool

[JForceGames]

What? These videos aren't about "how hard it is."

And you really have no idea how many awesome games have been made in both XNA and Game Maker, do you? XNA is used by several professional studios. Have you not seen Elysian Tail Dust? Or Kodu? (a whole engine that was made with xna)

But so you're saying developers should keep it a secret if they used a "beginners language" and somehow that will make you enjoy their game more? That doesn't make any sense.

[jurisnake8]

@mymothersmeatloaf

Do you think to know what game-development is all about? I think not, kid.

[mymothersmeatloaf]

do you? and yes i do.. its about getting the right kind of tools to get the job done using the right programming tools can

1.make the game run faster

2.if there is an error its easily fixable

3.multiplatform these guys said they're shooting for that but i really don't think that's going to happen under an Microsoft framework so yes i do know "kid"

[jurisnake8]

@mymothersmeatloaf

Do you have fun making shaky assumptions about the points in xna-framework and starting them as fact, troll?

[Bearrick]

@mymothersmeatloaf Game development: THe process of making a game. thats it, theres nothing more to it. game development uses all assets or any tools they can to make a good game, just like Jforce are doing.They arent limiting it to being all about 1 type of programming language, nor do they say its about one type of engine like you do.

[Archlvt]

@JForceGames Thing is, people who are too lazy to use a real language are incapable of knowing what it takes to make a "good" game. If you set your standards that low, it will reflect in the quality of your work.

Sure, it's POSSIBLE to make a good game with an inferior language, but someone who actually knows how to develop good games wouldn't shoot themselves in the foot by setting the bar so low.

You don't see pro chefs applying to mcdonalds when they have the skills to do otherwise.

[JForceGames]

@Archlvt There's so many things wrong with your comment I don't even know where to start. Might be one of the dumbest comments I've ever read.

[Archlvt]

@JForceGames In other words "he's being mean to me and I don't know how to reply back because I have nothing intelligent to say and I know he's right so I will just look like an ass. <insert random generic insult>"

[JForceGames]

@Archlvt I read your comment to the team and they said it's too dumb to even respond to. Now, I'm assuming you're referring to XNA with your comment (since that was the context of discussion). If so, yeah, your comment is just flat out dumb.

I dare you to post that same comment on the XNA forums, you'd get eaten alive.

[Bearrick]

@mymothersmeatloaf O.o what? thats just a purely stupid comment to make. It deosnt matter what games are made out of, I've seen people make better games using game maker then those who used C++

[SuperShortAndSweet]

@mymothersmeatloaf so your saying c++ makes you a real man so im guessing your useing game maker (im not talking to JForce games) like grow up

dam 12 year old boys *sigh*

xna is just fine

[NaveAdair]

@mymothersmeatloaf How exactly does an indie dev use C++ to make Xbox 360 games? Oh, right, they can't.

[shinymonkey2]

@NaveAdair Yeah, they can, I've done it.

[resatti]

you should make the game so when you die the enemies th enemies stop moving instead of making them go to 0,0

[flairza]

its not a flash game its made in XNA 3.0 (C#)

[bl0ckeduser]

here's an idea for JForcegame : you could write your own VM instead of using flash, that would be very cool

[ratzidied]

o.o Okay, I exaggerated. Maybe not 5 minutes, possible 1 hour. I don't believe it would take 5 hours to make that... I'm pretty sure someone made it in around 10 minutes or something using an engine. Biggest noob ever? Of course I am, seeing that I am only 8 days old now.

[ratzidied]

o.o I'm pretty sure I can make what they have so far in like 5 minutes. Whats sad is that I'm 3 days old in c#. I have to agree with GyroVorbis, your game is going nowhere and you are just boasting about well.. nothing.

[JForceGames]

Just wait. You'll see.

[ratzidied]

I hope it improves, it looks kind of nice at the moment, but really I mean REAALLYY needs an improvement. But hey, what do I know? I'm only 3/4 days old in XNA.

[Wulfgar12]

:D Keep it up never stop!

[toastedtiger]

he needs a co programmer somone else to back him up so some would be taken off his shoulders :D

[Hyperfighter3]

Where did you learn all this? One day I want to make my own game too. Maybe even with Flash!

___

Time for a new meme:

☻/

/▌

/ \

This is Bob, copy and paste him everywhere and he will take over the world

[HEDNOKKA35]

its not much to learn......its alot but the program teaches you so it will be eazy...once you do the tutorials you'll know how to fix your own bugs...

[SamDGoodrick]

making a game with flash isn't an achievement...

[Hyperfighter3]

I'm not even a beginner, so in my eyes it's an achievement! :P

[bl0ckeduser]

yeah they should move on to something more advanced

[ziva80]

SamDGoodrick, it's not the language, it's what you do with it that counts. I've been programming games in C since 1984, but am now just getting interested in doing something in Flash / Actionscript 3. Making a game THAT PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY, using any language, IS an achievement...

[ccricers]

It's unfortunate that this is the only dev video they've got that I can watch.

[TledgEs]

I think it looks great, it plays well and has alot of interesting stuff.

And it looks like its actually fun.

Im not sure at all why people are getting so riled up.

[oglprofessor]

Stop the interpreted sucking game programming. Learn OOP, C++,design patterns etc. It is horrible!

[johnmair]

i think they're using C# and XNA. also, what makes you think they're not applying any design patterns?

[int3rl0per]

Jesus Christ, your Sprite constructor looks horrible...

[brockta7]

THE BEST INDIE GAME EVAHH IN THE WORLD.

Not only are you arrogant you're a dumbass.

You're game has potential, it does.. but calling it the best indie game ever is just obnoxious and a reallly arrogant thing to say when you're game isn't 3% finished.

Fail.

[LeeSmellyFingers]

aww cmon man its obvious they are messing about i really dont see why people gettin uptight about this Haha it wont be the best indie game cus ill make the best indie game ever :) lol

[warlord90210]

Stick with realistic... the sprite is sick!

I think it doesn't look right because the animations aren't matching the way the sprite looks.

Try making his torso jolt back a small bit when he fires enough to notice to give it a good feel to it. Also, don't make his movements so fluid, but not to rough... When he is facing the opposite way that he is moving, slow him down a small ammount and maybe make his steps a little off.

I'm loving the game so far

[JForceGames]

Thanks for the advice!

[AntiD2]

its a very nice game so far of what iv seen, but a little suggestion, i heard you guys talking about the character doesnt move realisticly, but idk if the guy was controlling him this way, but your guy is being kind of snapped to a grid, if you notice when he spins he like snaps, he doesnt smooth turn, he just like cut, bam we are over here. i know its early stages but just a hint.

[Vyzer]

Is this all you guys finished since February?

[JForceGames]

No, we didn't actually start working on it till around June. Jonny was finishing up a training course first.

[likizmase]

How do you plan to run XNA(DirectX 9) and C# on Mac?

[JForceGames]

tao & sdl

[TheBatchGuy]

I doubt your game will amount to anything, your programmer and artist are the only ones contributing.. gj dumbasses

[JForceGames]

You are wrong. I am contributing a lot, if not more so then Jonny and Jordan. Apparently you have not read my post about what I do. You can't argue with that.

[RyanPridgeon]

AHAHAHAHHA

[spazshane]

you are a fucking dick man.

these guys dont need that shit.

get a fucking life, if all you have to do is critize there work, not creatively but a blunt statement, that you have no way of backing up or any evidence at all of being true, and then calling them dumbasses?

how about some logical thinking before you throw out the critical statements?

ever thought of that ya dumbass?

[Aiursrage2k]

You should have an RPG system with perks (ala crimsonland)

The arena should be bigger

[JForceGames]

Yeah the arena will definitely be bigger.

Don't know about perks though. We don't wanna copy crimsonland too much.

[mcklovin567]

Game looks cool.

Hey since its programmed in C, how did your programer go about learning C, formal training?

[JForceGames]

Naw it's C# (xna). He mostly learned from 3dBuzz and he's studying computer science at college.

[Techgames]

nnooooooooooooooooooooooooo, to be continued why the fuck are you doing this to us! lol, but yeah can I get a demo of that pleeeasssse.

Yo yeah did your programer made one for the pc, it would be great to have the game on the pc and th 360

[ZOMS15]

Your guys game is gonna be awesome I can't wait for it.

[josephohsnap]

i really li8ked seeing the programming and descision making. but i got interested in the art more at 3:26 . hey, the cartoony look turned out great for team fortress 2.