We see life as we want to see it and not as it is!
Humans try hardly to organize any chaotic situation by putting rules, equations and predictions for future scenarios to govern everything although we do not understand and CONTROL life completely, since science based on possibilities and predictions because there is no exact science. We are in the middle with no start and end trying to connect some dots with each other to make understandable shape of life
Balthasar Gracian said:Leave Something to wish for,so as not to be miserable from very happiness. If one possessed all, all would be disillusion and discontent. Even in knowledge there should be always something left to know in order to arouse curiosity and excite hope. Surfeits of happiness are fatal. In giving assistance it is a piece of policy not to satisfy entirely. If there is nothing left to desire, there is everything to fear, an unhappystate of happiness. When desire dies, fear is born.
I must change the things that I can change and gracefully accept that which I cannot. I trust that I will discover the difference between the two. This documentary is garbage and fear mongering by 'mathimaticians'.
I may misunderstand the point, but I feel chaos is overplayed in this documentary.
Yes, there is a sense of chaos around us. Yes, Newtonian maths did not explain the full picture.
But it is important to realize that the universe is obviously structured in a seemingly non-chaotic way. Just look through a telescope to see the vast numbers of galaxies, all made of the same elements, forming similar patterns.
Just because there are many variables, does not mean everything is chaos.
This doc is confused. The big break through in chaos theory is that determinant systems can produce chaos. The first half of this doc does not set that out right at all. It totally confuses the concepts of determinism and unpredictability. It would have been better to move more quickly to the parts about Lorenz and weather or handle the background more artfully. Either the producers are confused or they think their audience stupid.
@MrShysterme Maybe the aim was to show the possible consequences for humans, knowing that chaos and unpredictability have in general anxiety and confusion as human reactions, maybe it's only a reminder of a time when natural and vital systems around us enter in an irreversible chaotic behavior, the number of possibilities is quite huge, unless we ask directly the makers of the doc!
@17secret Maybe, but what they said in this doc is inaccurate. My background isn't exactly in this subject, but I've spent maybe around 40 hours reading about it (not counting related fields), and this doc strikes me as very misleading. I'd just suggest picking up a few highly rated books on the subject (if you haven't yet), and I bet you'll be glad for it. I wish docs like this would shoot for their actual average audience (which isn't the same as that for a sitcom).
@MrShysterme Now you make me want to understand more,
what kind of data do you find inaccurate in this doc? is it historical, mathematical, physical, economical, social, etc. As you might have noticed the doc covers more than these fields.
Now if you don't agree with the interpretation of the data and the way it was gathered and set up to fit in this doc, then that is another story, a story of opinions, and you put your opinion against these scientists: 40 hrs vs X
@17secret I've spent many more hours than 40 trying to understand the logic and science, but I made a guesstimate on what I've spent on what I've spent on chaos theory. I work in a different scientific field. It is not inaccuracy in a sense, but the producer's edit this to misframe the issue. I'm sure you realize that the producer's of the doc are more important than the scientists they find in terms of what this expresses.
@17secret For F's sake, the producer here is the guy doing the talking at the beginning. His little parable is misguided and doesn't match the science. That is what my original statement was about, the beginning of this doc being misleading. For goodness sake, you'd think you were the one who made the thing. You have not at all addressed my principle concern, and I've made it abundantly clear: the narrator confuses predictability and determinancy and this does harm to the public understand.
@17secret As far as where this doc falls short, I suggest you re-read my original comment and then read something about chaos theory. Predictability and determinancy are NOT the same thing. Chaos theory shows that determinant and even relatively simple systems can be impossible to predict, seem to act in random ways, and seem indeterminant. You may be trolling or thinking "no one who comments on a youtube video could possibly know what they are talking about or know more than me".
@MrShysterme you said: "Chaos theory shows that determinant and even relatively simple systems can be impossible to predict, seem to act in random ways, and seem indeterminant."
It is mentioned in the next video with Poincaré failing to predict a simple 3 orbiting objects system.
@17secret Is your ego really wrapped up in a doc that you simply uploaded? Yes, this is true. But please see my original comment that you responded to where I state that the beginning of this doc is misleading. Watch it with an eye for the fact that indeterminancy and unpredictability are not the same thing, that it was quite obvious that indeterminant systems would be unpredictable, and that the breakthrough in chaos theory was to show that determinant system could likewise be unpredictable.
@MrShysterme I just want to be fair and factual that's what my ego is usually wrapped up in, I can delete the whole documentary for that misleading statement if you think that the unaware public would be misguided by it, but what a waste for the rest of the historical and scientific information they could grab from it.
You are a scientist as you said, and you should know that vulgarizing a scientific concept for the large public makes it inevitably lose its primal essence.
@17secret Don't take my word for it.Search out the term "deterministic chaos".Also the online stanford dictionary of philosophy has a good section called "determinism and chaos" in their causal determinism article.Also, search for things like "determinism vs. predictability".After that,watch the doc again.If you think I have a point,then I'd suggest pointing out your concerns at the beginning of the vid and in the info bar and perhaps provide some links you found helpful.Much of the vid is ok.
@MrShysterme I was thinking about you suggesting a brief note explaining that in fact Lorenz brought a solution to the problem with his chaos theory which concerns strictly deterministic dynamic systems that present a high sensitivity to initial conditions, which make them 'seemingly' unpredictable on the long run..
Please suggest something, I'll put it on the right frame and to hell with the BBC4!
@17secret Ok, I'm flattered. When I watched this on your channel a few months ago, it was the second time I'd watched. So that I am accurate, I'll watch the whole thing again in the next few days and then suggest something via PM.
@17secret Your comment assumes that everything is opinion unless it is disagreement over a specific data point (number, etc). This isn't the case. Obviously, someone can misrepresent a field or reason incorrectly. The person in the beginning of this doc is not a scientist, he is an independent filmmaker. Read the Essence of Chaos by Lorenz.
@josi19831 Sweet. It took 4 months for someone to agree ;) This doc was a disappointment because you sit down and think "i'm going to learn something new here, great". And then the documentary contradicts basic logic, science, and what someone would've learned by reading a handful of material on the subject and then thinking about it. It would actually be better for someone NOT to watch this since no information is better than misinformation. Sad but half the docs on math, etc are like this.
The economists have been doing the math WRONG for decades.
All machines wear out including those bought by consumers. What happened to the depreciation of all of the cars since the Moon landing. 20 years of BAD ALGEBRA.
If accounting had been mandatory for all high school kids since 1960 the what would be the economic state now? Nobody knows. We created CHAOS by building it on IGNORANCE.
MORONS that want power want other people IGNORANT!
commenting like this without understanding the theory of chaos or even without having any knowledge abt it, makes u an absolute idiot. ur comment is perfect example of BS.
if everything's determinated, y is it still called chaos? cuz we're too stupid to understand or what? anyways - the chaos-algorythms always remind me to "karma" as hindus say (just less spiritual) it excuses everything any1 does - holocaust? wasn't hitler's fault cuz it was his "destiny" maybe i get something wrong but that's how i understand it. (sry if my grammar sux - i'm swiss ;)
everything is determined. but d problem is dat we cant know in what ways it is determined bcoz we cant nvr know initial conditions for sure, to solve d equations for a future time. u can also take CHAOS THEORY to get a scientific definition of FATE. pls dont bring religion into science. if religion says everything has to do with Karma and god controls everything. then y ppl want to punish who did things like(killing, robbing etc). religion is BS and it makes no sense.
@kesav1985 It seems you have never heard of quantum mechanics. I believe you may be cross pollinating the ideas of free will and determinism here, and so are confused.
A very important documentary which links precisely with my definition of oblivicism, It addresses the deliberate and convenient evasion of reality. The wish to believe or to determine predictability comes from the assumption that all can be controlled. If there is no control possible, fear and anxiety cause chaotic response.
We see life as we want to see it and not as it is!
Humans try hardly to organize any chaotic situation by putting rules, equations and predictions for future scenarios to govern everything although we do not understand and CONTROL life completely, since science based on possibilities and predictions because there is no exact science. We are in the middle with no start and end trying to connect some dots with each other to make understandable shape of life
darkspace08 3 weeks ago
Balthasar Gracian said:Leave Something to wish for,so as not to be miserable from very happiness. If one possessed all, all would be disillusion and discontent. Even in knowledge there should be always something left to know in order to arouse curiosity and excite hope. Surfeits of happiness are fatal. In giving assistance it is a piece of policy not to satisfy entirely. If there is nothing left to desire, there is everything to fear, an unhappystate of happiness. When desire dies, fear is born.
darkspace08 3 weeks ago
I must change the things that I can change and gracefully accept that which I cannot. I trust that I will discover the difference between the two. This documentary is garbage and fear mongering by 'mathimaticians'.
Silver44Guy 1 month ago
@Silver44Guy That reminds me of Epictetus, a very lucid guy :)
17secret 1 month ago
To Balance chaos which is already balanced..man will tilt the system if he attempts to..Can't control control..Chaos should be left with Nature.
edisonoside 3 months ago
I may misunderstand the point, but I feel chaos is overplayed in this documentary.
Yes, there is a sense of chaos around us. Yes, Newtonian maths did not explain the full picture.
But it is important to realize that the universe is obviously structured in a seemingly non-chaotic way. Just look through a telescope to see the vast numbers of galaxies, all made of the same elements, forming similar patterns.
Just because there are many variables, does not mean everything is chaos.
chronoflect 5 months ago in playlist High Anxieties - The Mathematics of Chaos
@chronoflect There is the butterfly effect and the butterfly fallacy.
MrShysterme 1 month ago
Comment removed
chronoflect 5 months ago in playlist High Anxieties - The Mathematics of Chaos
This doc is confused. The big break through in chaos theory is that determinant systems can produce chaos. The first half of this doc does not set that out right at all. It totally confuses the concepts of determinism and unpredictability. It would have been better to move more quickly to the parts about Lorenz and weather or handle the background more artfully. Either the producers are confused or they think their audience stupid.
MrShysterme 5 months ago 5
@MrShysterme Maybe the aim was to show the possible consequences for humans, knowing that chaos and unpredictability have in general anxiety and confusion as human reactions, maybe it's only a reminder of a time when natural and vital systems around us enter in an irreversible chaotic behavior, the number of possibilities is quite huge, unless we ask directly the makers of the doc!
17secret 5 months ago
@17secret Maybe, but what they said in this doc is inaccurate. My background isn't exactly in this subject, but I've spent maybe around 40 hours reading about it (not counting related fields), and this doc strikes me as very misleading. I'd just suggest picking up a few highly rated books on the subject (if you haven't yet), and I bet you'll be glad for it. I wish docs like this would shoot for their actual average audience (which isn't the same as that for a sitcom).
MrShysterme 1 month ago
@MrShysterme Now you make me want to understand more,
what kind of data do you find inaccurate in this doc? is it historical, mathematical, physical, economical, social, etc. As you might have noticed the doc covers more than these fields.
Now if you don't agree with the interpretation of the data and the way it was gathered and set up to fit in this doc, then that is another story, a story of opinions, and you put your opinion against these scientists: 40 hrs vs X
17secret 1 month ago
@17secret I've spent many more hours than 40 trying to understand the logic and science, but I made a guesstimate on what I've spent on what I've spent on chaos theory. I work in a different scientific field. It is not inaccuracy in a sense, but the producer's edit this to misframe the issue. I'm sure you realize that the producer's of the doc are more important than the scientists they find in terms of what this expresses.
MrShysterme 1 month ago
@MrShysterme the producer does his job and it is making docs, the scientists do theirs by answering his questions.
17secret 1 month ago
@17secret For F's sake, the producer here is the guy doing the talking at the beginning. His little parable is misguided and doesn't match the science. That is what my original statement was about, the beginning of this doc being misleading. For goodness sake, you'd think you were the one who made the thing. You have not at all addressed my principle concern, and I've made it abundantly clear: the narrator confuses predictability and determinancy and this does harm to the public understand.
MrShysterme 1 month ago
@17secret As far as where this doc falls short, I suggest you re-read my original comment and then read something about chaos theory. Predictability and determinancy are NOT the same thing. Chaos theory shows that determinant and even relatively simple systems can be impossible to predict, seem to act in random ways, and seem indeterminant. You may be trolling or thinking "no one who comments on a youtube video could possibly know what they are talking about or know more than me".
MrShysterme 1 month ago
@MrShysterme you said: "Chaos theory shows that determinant and even relatively simple systems can be impossible to predict, seem to act in random ways, and seem indeterminant."
It is mentioned in the next video with Poincaré failing to predict a simple 3 orbiting objects system.
17secret 1 month ago
@17secret Is your ego really wrapped up in a doc that you simply uploaded? Yes, this is true. But please see my original comment that you responded to where I state that the beginning of this doc is misleading. Watch it with an eye for the fact that indeterminancy and unpredictability are not the same thing, that it was quite obvious that indeterminant systems would be unpredictable, and that the breakthrough in chaos theory was to show that determinant system could likewise be unpredictable.
MrShysterme 1 month ago
@MrShysterme I just want to be fair and factual that's what my ego is usually wrapped up in, I can delete the whole documentary for that misleading statement if you think that the unaware public would be misguided by it, but what a waste for the rest of the historical and scientific information they could grab from it.
You are a scientist as you said, and you should know that vulgarizing a scientific concept for the large public makes it inevitably lose its primal essence.
17secret 1 month ago
@17secret Don't take my word for it.Search out the term "deterministic chaos".Also the online stanford dictionary of philosophy has a good section called "determinism and chaos" in their causal determinism article.Also, search for things like "determinism vs. predictability".After that,watch the doc again.If you think I have a point,then I'd suggest pointing out your concerns at the beginning of the vid and in the info bar and perhaps provide some links you found helpful.Much of the vid is ok.
MrShysterme 1 month ago
@MrShysterme I was thinking about you suggesting a brief note explaining that in fact Lorenz brought a solution to the problem with his chaos theory which concerns strictly deterministic dynamic systems that present a high sensitivity to initial conditions, which make them 'seemingly' unpredictable on the long run..
Please suggest something, I'll put it on the right frame and to hell with the BBC4!
17secret 1 month ago
@17secret Ok, I'm flattered. When I watched this on your channel a few months ago, it was the second time I'd watched. So that I am accurate, I'll watch the whole thing again in the next few days and then suggest something via PM.
MrShysterme 1 month ago
@MrShysterme Thanks for your time, it is a pleasure to help put things back to their right place, I hope that David Malone won't sue us for it.
17secret 1 month ago in playlist More videos from 17secret
@17secret Your comment assumes that everything is opinion unless it is disagreement over a specific data point (number, etc). This isn't the case. Obviously, someone can misrepresent a field or reason incorrectly. The person in the beginning of this doc is not a scientist, he is an independent filmmaker. Read the Essence of Chaos by Lorenz.
MrShysterme 1 month ago
@MrShysterme I just wanted you to be more precise, I'm not going to defend BBC4.
17secret 1 month ago
@MrShysterme totally agree!!!! this documentary is an insult to my intelligence.
josi19831 1 month ago
Comment removed
MrShysterme 1 month ago
@josi19831 Sweet. It took 4 months for someone to agree ;) This doc was a disappointment because you sit down and think "i'm going to learn something new here, great". And then the documentary contradicts basic logic, science, and what someone would've learned by reading a handful of material on the subject and then thinking about it. It would actually be better for someone NOT to watch this since no information is better than misinformation. Sad but half the docs on math, etc are like this.
MrShysterme 1 month ago
Comment removed
MrShysterme 1 month ago
Trite, but true. The truth, the fact is what sets us free.
rwattonville 5 months ago in playlist High Anxieties - The Mathematics of Chaos
GREAT VIDEO! This is just another example, that show us the true nature of the problem of the world: money... it's time for ZEITGEIST
leanmv 5 months ago in playlist Liked
it's funny, mathematical chaos and pseduscientific psychiatry, all in one video :)
Bomberdoom 6 months ago
@Bomberdoom all psychiatry is pseudoscience!
17secret 6 months ago
@17secret ignorance is bliss :)
berkenye123 5 months ago in playlist High Anxieties - The Mathematics of Chaos
@17secret
Yeah it totally is. Thankfully some people are sane enough to realize it's not science.
ItsSoPlausible 5 months ago in playlist High Anxieties - The Mathematics of Chaos
just because we don't fully understand science, math, and reason, doesn't mean we abandon it and surrender to illogic and religion.
jeddawie 8 months ago
@kesav1985 i like how you replace the word "the" with "d". it makes you seem very intelligent haha :)
imacoolkid613 9 months ago
This video has '42' likes, therefore, I will not 'like' it.
Vorbis5 9 months ago
@Vorbis5 sadly someone 'liked' it. Order is restored.
MGX890 9 months ago
This is BS!
The economists have been doing the math WRONG for decades.
All machines wear out including those bought by consumers. What happened to the depreciation of all of the cars since the Moon landing. 20 years of BAD ALGEBRA.
If accounting had been mandatory for all high school kids since 1960 the what would be the economic state now? Nobody knows. We created CHAOS by building it on IGNORANCE.
MORONS that want power want other people IGNORANT!
psikeyhackr 9 months ago
@psikeyhackr
commenting like this without understanding the theory of chaos or even without having any knowledge abt it, makes u an absolute idiot. ur comment is perfect example of BS.
kesav1985 9 months ago
Entropy is approaching..that is for sure.
TheJovanist 11 months ago
if everything's determinated, y is it still called chaos? cuz we're too stupid to understand or what? anyways - the chaos-algorythms always remind me to "karma" as hindus say (just less spiritual) it excuses everything any1 does - holocaust? wasn't hitler's fault cuz it was his "destiny" maybe i get something wrong but that's how i understand it. (sry if my grammar sux - i'm swiss ;)
Dummweltschutz 11 months ago
@Dummweltschutz
everything is determined. but d problem is dat we cant know in what ways it is determined bcoz we cant nvr know initial conditions for sure, to solve d equations for a future time. u can also take CHAOS THEORY to get a scientific definition of FATE. pls dont bring religion into science. if religion says everything has to do with Karma and god controls everything. then y ppl want to punish who did things like(killing, robbing etc). religion is BS and it makes no sense.
kesav1985 9 months ago
@kesav1985 It seems you have never heard of quantum mechanics. I believe you may be cross pollinating the ideas of free will and determinism here, and so are confused.
MrShysterme 5 months ago
@Dummweltschutz See, your still questioning things...we always will.
gezkah 9 months ago
A very important documentary which links precisely with my definition of oblivicism, It addresses the deliberate and convenient evasion of reality. The wish to believe or to determine predictability comes from the assumption that all can be controlled. If there is no control possible, fear and anxiety cause chaotic response.
arendpsa 1 year ago
@arendpsa Absolutely
vortexy1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thx for uploading such a great film. All David Malone's films are fantastic.
Xenusz 1 year ago
Comment removed
Xenusz 1 year ago
please tell me what is the name of the song that is playing at the whole beginning...
mindauggas 1 year ago
THX
DEEZEETHEGENIUS 1 year ago