A New Direction In Iraq

[BaghdadZeyad]

WOw I love this Video :) I hope it comes true :):)

[Blackrain4xmas]

I'll take facts over irrational thought and lack of logic any day, and I didn't say you were a Democrat anymore than you said I was a Republican. My point is that those who oppose the war only oppose the Republicans and give the Democrats a free pass even those who saw the intel, who had closed door meetings with intel officials, and then promoted the war.

[Suz45]

Good grief,have you even read the document? Assisting the people of Iraq humanitarily does not mean occupying their country militarily. Lovely excuse for Bush to pawn off on Americans who do not bother to educate themselves,but do you seriously think that if we were "not allowed" to leave( a joke) there would even be legislative attempts to get out involving pull-out dates? Nice try,ok not so great but interesting...but no cigar.

[Rachmanfan4life]

It's really funny how the supporters of this war, which was proven to be based on BS intelligence, no link and no WMDs will defend GW no matter what. This war can never be won by military might. Everyone (even GOP) admits this. Yet more bodies are the plan and some rah rah music as always. Nothing else. See ya in the morgue boys! Sad

[Suz45]

Rach you are my savior. I swear I have had more bullshit email on how virtuous this war is and how unpatriotic I am to fail to support it than I ever thought possible. I am old. I served in the Nam era and my family is so rooted in the military you can smell the gun powder at 50 yards,yet without exception we all know this war is shit.

[Blackrain4xmas]

I'm not defending the President, just the bi-partisan decision to go to war, and the UN requirement that the US stay. I like how opponents of the war claim Bush was trying to do everything militarily when that's not even 1/3 of the strategy. Most opponents never even read the plan-just complained like Democrat talking point parrots.

[Suz45]

Un requirement that we stay? Trust me when I say that that is specious as hell. Bush generals are even coming out against this war. What's it going to take for you to realize what a cluster fuck this is?

[Blackrain4xmas]

Yep, check it out, the UN mandated that the US and other Coalition members are classed as "occupiers" and required to stay. There's several UN resolutions citing this, and they get re-upped every few years. First was (I think) UN1486.

[Blackrain4xmas]

Sorry, my error, UN 1483 May 22. Lifted sanctions, and called upon all member states (particularly "occupiers" like the US) to bring about security in Iraq....and to stay until it's secure, and stable, or until they ask us to leave.

[Suz45]

Iraq did NOT attack us. Do you recoommend we go after everybody? Stay there forever? Just how many dead soldiers do you want to hear about? I say "hear about" since unlike Nam they wont show you the caskets. And for what? I am dying to know just what you think can be accomplished by staying in Iraq. Enlighten me.

[Blackrain4xmas]

No one claimed Iraq attacked the US. Bosnia didn't attack us, but we have troops there. Kosovo didn't attack us, but we have troops there. The list is long. Oh, and btw, that line about caskets not being allowed to be shown is complete BS. Armed Services show caskets all the time, and they detail the actions of heroes...something opponents of the war can't stomach

[Suz45]

Give me one link..just one..where the returning dead were shown on main stream media.Bush philosophy: If you ignore it,maybe nobody will notice.

[Blackrain4xmas]

caskets,

do a search on "Lion of Fallujah is laid to rest"

[Suz45]

How about YOU do a search on Bush attending military funerals or how about nation mourns dead.Are you even old enough to remember Viet Nam and see the difference? Back then,like it or not,journalists did their damned jobs.

[Blackrain4xmas]

Yeah, I remember Vietnam, and I remember the lesson it taught the Iranian revolutionaries, the Syrian terrorists in Lebannon, Saddam, and Bin Laden. In this war, you can't just runaway though.

[Suz45]

"You cant just run away"? what the hell. It is an illegal unwinnable war.Just how many dead American soldiers do you want the tally to reach before you figure out that sometimes retreat is better and wiser,especially since we had no biz being there to start with? When will we lose our arrogance?

[Blackrain4xmas]

It's not illegal anymore. It was made legal by the UN in May 03. The invasion was legal under 678 which was still in effect as Iraq had been formally found in material breach of the cease-fire on 4 occasions-which is why almost all subsequent UN resolutions on Iraq included the caveat recognizing that 678 which authorized force was still in effect. Lose arrogance? Maybe when you protest the terrorists instead of those who remove dictators?

[Suz45]

Read the fine print. You cannot invade a country pre-emptively if said country neither attacked you nor colluded to attack you. We went against the UN to do it.

[Blackrain4xmas]

Please give date that UN 678 was closed, and the war over?

[Suz45]

You are not aware that the US defied the UN to invade Iraq? You are not aware that we were neother attacked nor provoked by Iraq?You are not aware that the Iraq Parliamnet voted and wants us out and as non criminal nation we are obligated to leave? You are in denial and in error if you think this war is in any way legal.

[Blackrain4xmas]

I'm in denial? You can't even answer the question-when was the peace treaty signed that ended Desert Storm? How about lookin up UN1483 and seeing that yeah, that UN that you hold so precious...they mandate that the US stays. Talk about denial. Too bad you don't protest the terrorists as much as you do the liberators.

[Suz45]

No they do not. See prior post. can you spell bullshit. read it before you quote it.

[Blackrain4xmas]

Look, I'll debate that forever, and can readily list out hundreds of examples of Iraq attacking the US, breaking the cease-fire agreement, and thus detailing that the US/Iraq were at war, but what's relevent now is a war in Iraq that is not at all against Saddam, or against the Iraqi govt. The war TODAY, is very legal.

[Suz45]

It is about oil. It was unprovoked . You cannot go back in time and claim that a nation did you harm in such and such a year and occupy it.If that were the cxase England and the USA could legally go to war tomorrow.Or Spain and the USA. Or Mexico...Get it?

[Blackrain4xmas]

Oh, ok, yeah...oil. What's gas cost today? How much more oil's the US getting? Nah. Not buyin the socialist/anti-capitalism ranting. Sorry. Next you're gonna go off on some PNAC cabal conspiracy theory rant. If you really opposed the war, you'd be ranting away at the Democrats. Instead, here you are.

[Blackrain4xmas]

Look, I'll debate that forever, and can readily list out hundreds of examples of Iraq attacking the US, breaking the cease-fire agreement, and thus detailing that the US/Iraq were at war, but what's relevent now is a war in Iraq that is not at all against Saddam, or against the Iraqi govt. The war TODAY, is very legal.

[Suz45]

Iraq did not attack us and there were no wmds,which he either knew better,or is too stupid to live since the intel has proven to be questionable at best.He has abused The Patriot act to embarrassement levels. He stands behind such fucktards as Gonzales. He sat in a Florida classroom for 7 minutes after being told about the WT attack,and lied his ass off about the scrambling of fighter jets.They lie.

A war is NOT legal if you lie to get there. Buy whatever drivel you want.

[Blackrain4xmas]

Oh, but Democrats are all honest? Naive. Your beef's with W, and the war is just your favorite excuse. Welp guess what, he's a lame duck, and gone in 500+days. Republicans are not in control of Congress either. Go rant about Dems who authorized the war, saw the intel and authenticated it, and are still in power...if your real beef is the war and not W. btw, using your standards for legal war, it was illegal to fight Germany and Japan. open ye mind mon ami.

[Blackrain4xmas]

Unless you're still at war with it via a UN authorized war. Then you can bomb em indefinitely, blockade em, starve em, disarm them by any means, and more...as long as you're still at war with em.

[rbdeyoung]

Yes. Yes you can. You can pack up everything you can carry, and scorch the earth that holds the things you can't. We have 2.6m citizens of this country on active or reserve duty. There are about 298m civilians. That's 1 armed forces resource for just over every 100 civilians. Plenty of people to protect our borders, airlines, ports, airspace, and oversized government from the big, scary terrorists.

[Blackrain4xmas]

I included a snippet of the terrorists in the crowd which forced the shooting into the crowd. Point of the vid isn't a movie review, but to show in graphic terms what the Democrats' calls for withdrawl mean; what it would look like, what they're advocating.

[Suz45]

What? They go back to civil war? News Flash for you: violence in Iraq exponentially increased with our arrival. If you are so worried about Iraqi civilian deaths then support withdrawal.

[Blackrain4xmas]

Yeah, and violence increased in Italy in 1944 when the US invaded. You're looking at the final score in the middle of the event. btw, no intelligence or military assessment says that the violence will DECREASE if the US cuts funding and runs away. All say it will get exponentially worse.

[Suz45]

And there ain't shit for intel that says after a few 1000 more American soldiers wind up in the ground,they wont go back to their own civil war.We did this already...Viet Nam remember? We lost there too,only this time it is about money and oil.

[Blackrain4xmas]

More than money and oil, it's about politics. Both parties need the war as their political crutch. Democrats need to oppose it because nothing else gets their base to the polls, and the checks in the campaign accts. W needed it because he's an empty hat. Thing is, you can't even vote W out. He's leaving. Now, if you want to hold anyone to acct for the bad intel, and authorizing the war...you have to hold a dem to account, and opponents of the war can never hate dems like they hate W.

[Suz45]

Screw party affiliation. As soon as I say anything anti-Bush I am accused of being a Clinton lover. Totally irrelevant. I am talking Peak oil especially. In about 10 years it won't matter whose oil we

hijack,there wont be enough anyway. I am for anyone bright enough to realize that

1 trillion and counting plus dead soldiers are killing us.The money spent

there might actually save us if we worked

on petro alternatives.Way too short sighted all of them and killinhg kids for nothing.

[97sicksled]

You forgot the part where they kill all the muslims. That's the best part.

[Blackrain4xmas]

yep

Rules of Engagement with Samuel L Jackson

2000 (ie, pre-Bush Administration)

[DoubleGauss]

This is a clip from 'Rules of Engagement'