Each time I saw someone touched by THE HOLY SPIRIT this guy never needed to read any document. Because it has to be told by the holy spirit speeking himself throught him. Unfortunatly for him its not the case. NOT AT ALL !!!
Nope.. Koori dreaming aka "the australian Aboriginal religion" ? lol.. Aka the oldest living culutre of love, respect, equality ect. In the history of man !.. 40,000 years to say the absolute least ! Lolzz seems the teachings of christ are identical to our own but can you read between the lines ? Lolz I rekon some of yas are finaly getn it !
While I admire, respect & commend the works of Mr. Sponge in the area of civil rights & social justice, it must be equally acknowledged that his teachings & interpretations of the Gospels& epistles are quite clearly flawed & misleading. Many traditional catholic, reformed, & protestant churches opposed segregation without adopting a theological position which undermines the Gospels (as Mr. Sponge does). See the works of NT Wright, Cone, CS Lewis, A Evans, Cone, C.Stanley, R.Zacarias & others
Sigh! Bishop Spong speaks unnecessarily confrontative and provocative. Most of his visions about a "new Christianity" and a "new reformation" is already there, but it is "theistic" and "panentheistic" at the same time -- it is very tolerant to various opinions. He don't need to confront "theism", and he don't need to explicitly reject "supernaturalism" in order to get the Christianity he seems to be out for.
@phoenixtimes2 where is the holy spirit on him ? He speak a lot about LOVE, does he radiates LOVE ? NO AT ALL !!! The blinds lead the blinds said JESUS.
You had stated you would ask Paul if he was Gay or not when you get to heaven. You better hope Satan will let you write letter from there but you seeing him is going to be a sline chance !
I will pray for you to nite for you to come back to Jesus and leave your religish views alone ! You need to get on your Knees tonite and ask Jesus to comre back to you !
Better than worshiping some bastard that told everyone he was the son of jehovah to cover up the fact that his mother was gang raped by some roman soldiers. immaculate conception. more like ejaculate conception.
You're calling Bishop Spong a dark-brownish shade of red? How unusual. Are all of your discerning and critical remarks coded according to various color hues?
@merkavahvision Touche..You're right - I was spewing out my OWN self-aggrandizement in my comment. I do not at all agree with Bishop Spong; he waters down the Gospel message of Jesus Christ to the point where he's stating his own opinions, but for me to call him names serves no good purpose. Your point is well taken.
To explain the 'what a maroon' statement: I was quoting Bugs Bunny, who, instead of saying "what a moron," would say, "what a maroon."- guess you kind of had to be there.
Wow. Thirty-three thumbs up from comlete idiots who have no idea that "maroon" is a term of derision often uttered by Bugs Bunny when referring to a dopey adversary. It is a mispronunciation of the word "Moron"
I've got no dog in the fight regarding the religious stuff. I could care less. But thirty three "maroons" who don't know where the word came from or from what context is damn funny. :) Maroons...
It also refers to runaway slaves that started communities together and is thought by some to be of racist origin regarding ole "Bugs" ;) Really people, pick up a book. Fucking idiots. All of you.
all these hardened Christians sharing their usual and plain views on the very strict and dictative bible, you know what sirs and ma'ams, i cant fucking wait till the "rapture" comes because the ones that realize that we are one and you are god because god is you will be the ones to move on. life isnt this series of trial and error in the eyes of god, rather it is what you make it. if you feel safe with materializing god then go for it you have that right, however that doesnt make you right
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workman, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. (in fact he's the prince of darkness) It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. "
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
It is intellectual suicide and dishonesty to claim Christianity while denouncing the Bible, the defining foundational scriptures separating Christian from non-Christian for over 2000 years.
It is also a lie and intellectual suicide to equate racial bigotry with disapproval of behavior. It is no more bigotry to discourage homosexual behavior than to discourage pedophilia or cheating on university exams. Should it be a hate crime also to disapprove of hate crimes? Shall we say, "judge not"?
How much of the bible was assembled by religious authorities with an agenda? I wonder what jesus response would be upon his finishing reading the bible? I bet he would be furious!!!
Not at all. First, God doesn't get surprised or caught off guard. Second, He's competent to keep His Word and make it in such a way that it interprets itself and that the interpretation becomes correct and beneficial when the apparent conflicts are resolved within and it is correctly understood with the help of the Holy Spirit. But a hundred years from now when we're all in heaven or hell, winning an argument won't mean much. Faithfulness to God will. Give up Jesus or give up sin.
You presume I'm ignorant and not you, and that is a particular form of stupidity called "arrogance". This making hell out to be a grave or garbage dump was proven foolish by Matt. 10:28 and Luke 12:5 where Jesus tells us not to fear him who kills the body but him who has authority to cast into, um, now what are you going to say? Don't fear the terrorist or the murderer who can kill you, but fear the undertaker who may throw you into the grave? Now tell me who is ignorant and at risk eternally
Try connecting your replies to your question so people might know what question is being "avoided", and you're a lying, abusive jerk. What Bible translation are you talking about? JW's? Mormons? Fine. Granted, some twist scripture. Read it in context, and the contradictions will prove out the mistranslations. But, you clearly have no clue how meticulous many translators were or how much of the original texts are available or you would not make this empty insinuation through your question
Do you have any clue how many copies of old testament scriptures have been found in diverse locations and compared word for word with incredible accuracy or what was required of the scribes or how they tallied or did something akin to a checksum to assure accuracy? Do you have any clue of how many prophecies in new testament times were in those texts written hundreds of years prior to Christ? Have you heard the word "synoptic" or heard of the "Synoptic Gospels"?
Synoptic means different writers told the story of Christ from different viewpoints. Matthew, Mark, and John are three witnesses telling three different stories. If you want to challenge the "correctness" of scripture, study Greek and go back to a version too early to be within the reach of some kind of redactor or revisionist with an agenda. Even if you cannot get back to the old Greek that is run together in caps, the koine greek should suffice. And yes, it proves there is a hell.
I wonder if this speaker has read Teilhard? Universality and embracing new interpretation of scripture... Divinity is beneath and within us all... And there are many paths to release it. Some paths must grow as our world grows. Here's to a deeply spiritual and united world in the 21st century.
New Age Theology of The great "I AM" spirituality movement. What a load of garbage! This is what you will be left with when the real church is raptured! Have fun durring the tribulation!
Spong is such an intelligent and good man. I wonder why he even bothers anymore w/ Christianity. His version is ideal but it's not Biblical. He's so close to atheism. Trying to justify a 2, 000 yr old piece of fiction in the 21st Century is like trying to justify Zeus. I feel bad for him, sometimes. He's too bright and creative for the career he chose. Perhaps admitting it's all BS is more difficult than spending the rest of his life apologizing for t fictitious deity who's beneath him.
That's horribly wrong. He's the living example of why Christianity is right, and Spong's bringing people to the real, living God not Zeus or some made up entity. Your bigotry against believers has you as closed minded as other fundementalists, so SURE you're right and everyone else is wrong. You need to listen to Spong as badly as they do. That he's bright and creative means he's in exactly the RIGHT career.
Spong sees himself to be Tillich's direct heir. There are connections for sure, but it is not direct I suspect as Spong thinks. Those who are so quick to denounce Spong, though, tend invariably to be ignorant to the roots of his views. The call for ongoing reform cannot be denied or the church falls into authoritarianism, which is not faith. And besides, it is convenient to call anything other than one's own views of Christianity "gnosticism."
>Love includes correction. And excludes bigotry. >Why do you think everyone hated Christ? I dont even think he existed. At least,the Christ of contradicting gospels definetly didn't.
If you don't think he existed then you aren't at the liberty to discuss morality within the context of Christianity.
I am attacking Spong's heresies and am I no way obliged to debate atheists or those who aren't claiming to be Christian.
You believe love is just about letting everyone do anything they want without saying a word. You believe love is tolerance of all things. You believe love is acceptance of all things.
"so many pseudo Christians are spitting the most blasphemous lies." Will this do?
>If you don't think he existed then you aren't at the liberty to discuss morality within the context of Christianity. Do I have to believe in fairies to discuss an idea of fairies too?
>no way obliged to debate atheists or those who aren't claiming to be Christian.
"By definition you are an anti-Christ and are incapable of doing a single good act." I don't care about your stupid definitions,even if they're straight from the "holy" book,cause I don't believe none of this superstitious nonsense,really.
You just lumped all people of faith together and essentially called us ignorant in the same way a white male from the 19th century would have called blacks ignorant.
What is your definition of love? Complete tolerance of all things?
"You just lumped all people of faith together" No,I just said,that the bible is bullshit,in my opinion. Look,I don't care what you think about me,what your "holy" book says on the topic and I really see no point in continuing this conversation,ok?
>What is your definition of love? That's like asking "What is your definition of warmth?"
A dispicable lie. Comparing those who CHOOSE to believe something to black people is ridiculous, and given the incredible hateful and ignorant things you're saying it's no WONDER thinking people have a rotten attitude towards people of faith. When they see nothing but people like you, we deserve the criticism. Ignorant is about the only way to describe your insulting and ridiculous comments.
That's a ridiculous and incredibly unChristian lie. A person who doesn't believe in Jesus as savior is NOT "anti-Christ" and saying they're incapable of doing a single good act is horribly bigoted and downright stupid. Are you saying ONLY Christians can do good acts? The Dalai Lama never did a good act? Jewish people? Muslims never did ANYTHING but evil?
There's nothing remotely Christian about this attitude, it's just plain, simple and stupid hate.
You still have no yet explained how I have not been loving.
If a child acts out of place it is the parents job to correct them. If correction is hate then please allow your children to raise themselves without raising any objecting voice.
Let me remind you about your comment,that we're talking about... Quote.
"He is what we call a cheap gnostic in the game of preaching.
Better to be a complete gnostic than a cheap gnostic, because both receive the same reward. " End of quote. Where is any "correction" of anyone here? As for being unloving,I don't think,that,f.e., I should explain,why calling someone "cheap" is unloving.
He is a cheap gnostic because he doesn't admit it. If he admitted it I would call him a gnostic without the need to go any further with the description. I could elaborate on some fundamental gnostic beliefs this man holds but I will leave that up to those who actually care enough.
Both do receive the same reward according to the God this man claims.
You haven't exactly said how it was unloving to call him what he is. I didn't insult him. I didn't curse him.
This universal teaching makes me sick, quite literally. It depresses me that so many pseudo Christians are spitting the most blasphemous lies.
If you want to agree with these teachings go ahead, but do not fancy yourself a true Christian if you do.
I'm proud to live in a time where the true message of Christ is so bastardized. Why? It is God's will for it to happen, so I am grateful for my surroundings.
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."
The apostles are clear in what it means to be a follower of Christ. This man is not and you'd know that if you'd read the Bible even a little bit.
This really a glimpse of the future of Christianity in the 21st century. Knowledge about Ethics being accessible without Religion and the reality about Religion revealed by the history of Religions development from human culture alone being known by more and more in this age of Information will require it.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I WOULD NOT listen to this guy if I were you, God is Very real, and He wnts to be personally involved in our lives, he asks us to come to him as children, Jesus Died for our sins!, we are Not equal to God, This man's perspective is based on Pride. He does not Know the God of the bible, this man is an embassasment to christianity and does not represent the church as he claims to, he should not be wearing that dog collar, his faith takes people away from God, to look at ourselves as great.
I know God loves us but this man does not know God.. he is leading people away from a relationship with our Father, who wants to be in a relationship with us..
i can only tell of what i have seen of God.. cheers. mike
Anybody who gets JOY out of the idea of HELL is not godly or Jesus-like. Jesus would never find joy in that he was in heaven, while his loved ones are burning in hell. Do you think heaven would be fun when you know that you're loved ones are burning? I thought this religion was about love, guess not, it's about telling people they are gonna burn. People with nothign rewarding in their lives may find this a relief, I find it evil.
@BugzLooney Satan will do anything to get the people to turn on the bible. If you can get them to start changing the bible up to meet the needs of man now. You will not know what the bible is when Jesus returns to get his flock. All you are seeing now is that great change that is hoped for by Satan.
If Satan represents the equality, love and justice that man needs now (y'know, coz religion has delivered shit) then i think it makes more sense to worship Satan.
Or maybe Satan played a trick so clever as to make you believe he was jesus, son of god. have an open mind.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
"for certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in amoung you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a licence for immorality..." Jude 4
Jesus said "Then he will say to those on his left, depart from me you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Mt 25:41. Listen to this guy and you're doomed. Listen to Jesus instead
I appreciate the verses. I think it's sickning how many "Christians" go to listen to this guy; and surely no one will dare question him, he's a bishop after all. He talks with the same form as other cult leaders. He will diminish God's attributes, Jesus' diety, and write something that we're supposed to honor above the established word of God.
God = Tao, ground of being, I have read Paul Tillich when I was studying religion in college. It is about time all the religions of the world are seen as one. I just bought his book, that is why I am here. His thoughts are similar to Matthew Fox and Thomas Moore, I have read almost everything of the later. Great to have Spong in my library next to Meister Eckhart!
Spong is offering a suggesting of what the coming of Christ was about. Jesus didn't represent any of these destructive scriptures in the bible. His message was to be able to walk with your neighbor with love and acceptance no matter what race, religion, or sexual orientation they are. Spong is explaining how complex the bible is and the way that is transcending through time.
this "christianity" spong is talking about is NOT christianity, if the man wants to start his own religion he should just come out and do so instead of trying to tweak one already widely accepted to fit his own idealogies, he is right however, for christianity to become what he is describing requires the death of everything christianity is. How then, i ask, does whatever emerges out of this "reformation" even bear the name christianity?
this man is fucking brilliant, God is not christian or muslim or whatever, god is a force unseen by many, jesus was just another magician like criss angel. Also he kept a dark secret with his whore mary magdalene
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I would hate to be you when you face your Creator and explain why you admire someone who seeks to "create" God in the image of man rather than bowing his knee to the Creator who is self-defined and utterly sufficient and requires and deserves our worship.
what exactly makes you think that will happen? because it's in a book? wtf? What about if i have a book that says we end up as invisible purple teapots on Mars - does that make my theory just as credible as yours? if not, why not?
If that happens to me, the first question I'll ask when I meet my so called Creator is "so, which god are you? are you zeus? apollo? the Abrahamic god? Baal? thor?" ... I assume you're a Christian that by mere accident was born in America (or another christian-majority nation) during this millenia and raised in Christian creeds, much like I was. I'm just glad I opened up. pretty amazing considering I was raised as a southern baptist
I have a question for all our liberal xian friends out their. Why do you ally yourselves with muslims against evangelicals? Many lib's do not like evangelicals because they do not want to recognize gay marriage but do you relive that if this country was muslim, there would be no "gay marriage debate". Actually there would be a debate on gays if this country was muslim. Do we chop their heads off, stone them or line them up for firing squad? Your "inclusive vision" will lead to just this.
I don't know what liberal Christians you have encountered. But I believe that any form of fundamentalism, (Christian, Moslem or Jewish), is evil. Islam fundamentalists are probably the most dangerous, yet the what I view in America as common Evangelical right-leaning Christians, is that violence is a means to an end.
What I view in Jesus Christ, and I believe, is that violence must be abandoned entirely for the future of humanity.
The lib. xian church in a neighboring town allowed a muslim iman to have a prayer call in her church. The iman also told me that a pastor in a unitarian church let him present islam and ask people if they would like to convert DURING A CHURCH SERVICE!!! The Pastors daughter became a muslim! And the iman boasted about this to me. Islam is an intrisically political religion. If they can take over they will. Christianity is not intrisically religious that is why the US can have religious freedom.
I also hear lib. xians holding the same basoc view as Oprah. All religions are basically the same and just as we have our extremists so do they. But look at how each views history. The Majority of Con. xians look at the crusades and Inq. as bad.Muslims view their conquests in the 1st 3 cen. of their history as proof of Islams divinity. Their "glory days" were when they took over. Our glory days were when we were being martyred.
To say that all religious have their good followers and bad followers is correct as far as it goes but to say that all religiouns are basically the same is like saying "well it doesn't matter who you vote for Republican or democrat, they are all corrupted. All politcical parties are basically the same and want to help the US." I know lib. xians would totally disagree with this since they think that Bush was basically the devil! You must look at the teaching of the religion at its core.
I certainly think it's a good idea to have open dialogue between different religions, open minded talk never hurt anyone.
I do agree with you that Islam has proven itself to be a very destructive religion and that the heart of Christianity is non-violence, love and inclusiveness.
I however, don't agree with you that there should be a separation of church and state, it certainly is not intrinsic in Christianity. Jesus began his ministry preaching a "kingdom" of God, didn't he.
But that kingdom was a spiritual one remember Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world". Of Course we can and should have an influence on the political system but to merge politics and religion has proven dangerous historically. They should remain in two different sphere's. Politics operates with power from the top down. Religion should operate from the bottom up.
When Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world" I do believe that he was comparing his vision of "kingdom" to the Roman vision of "kingdom". He said after that if it were of this world, his disciples would not have let him be captured. In other words, "If his kingdom were like the Roman empire, he would have attempted victory through violence."
What ever you think about the separation of religion and politics, it did not exist in the first century. Religion and poiltics were basically one.
What about where Jesus states that "render to ceasar the things that are ceasars and unto God the Things that are God's." And also when the devil tested him and offered him all the kingdoms Jesus refused?
Yes, Jesus is a tricky character, remember though that for the first century Jews -everything- belonged to God, even Caesar's empire.
Satan offered to make Jesus the Roman emperor. Jesus refused because his kingdom did not function like that.
The very fact that he calls it, "Basilea tou theou" The Kingdom of God, is enough reason to believe that it had political implications. The very fact that Jesus was understood as the Messiah meant that his message had political implications.
Of course it had political implications but the essential character of the kingdom wasn't political in how we think of it today. When Jesus said "repent for the kingdom is at hand" he was not asking herod and the high priests to step down and let him lead. He was asking the nation to stop trying to kick the gentiles out and instead be a light to them and love them no matter what until they saw the truth of the God of Israel.
"Jesus began his ministry preaching a "kingdom" of God, didn't he." -allanpopa
Well Allan, one thing to take into consideration was that Jesus usually spoke in metaphors, allegory, and parables. The "Kingdom of God" should not be seen as a term indicating some kind of universal monarchy, but a reality that is the source of all that IS. It is not external, but as Jesus said in Luke 17:20-21, it is "within you"!!
No one interprets Luke 17:20-21 existentially. It's "within" you in the same sense as Jesus was preaching to a community of followers who, collectively, were the kingdom of God on earth.
When you get to the nitty-gritty, Jesus' message was very real, very powerful and very important.
Jesus' message WAS very real, very powerful, and very important. He used tactful methods of explaining the unexplainable to people who would not be able to understand the real message if it weren't given in the way it was.
Yes, he did use tactful methods, one could not explicitly state that the Roman empire was wrong or that the Jewish religio-political systems were against the will of God. Thus, Jesus used tact, i.e. aphorisms and parables to explain most of these things.
Yes, even the Roman Empire and Jewish kingdoms were trying to set things right, but sometimes violence was used to enforce whatever they were trying to accomplish. Some say violence isn't the answer.
Excellent! Beyond that, beyond establishing God's kingdom of justice and peace on the earth, debate is just mental masturbation. -Good fun, but ultimately empty.
Thank God People get to listen to this and see that it is horseshit. In a generation this crap will be only in isolated pockets in our country but true Biblical Christianity will continue on preaching the gospel of Jesus. That is why liberal mainline churches are dying like a leaf broken off from a tree while Evangelicals will be 1.3 billion strong by 2050. Sorry Spong but people are not buying it.
I beg to differ, Emo. People listen to this and realise that maybe Bishop Spong has a point. Does God really exist as an entity in heaven looking down on all of humanity and judging us all individually? Heaven, hell or purgatory?? That seems like a rather old fashioned and somewhat unrealistic view of Christianity today. Is it really that hard to imagine that we have God inside of us? With the same Christian values that we all know but one that is within us rather than without?
The Bible has always taught that God is inside of us.This is not new.What I am saying is that Spong'sChristianity will only fit in academia but not in the real world.I believe liberals are nice people who mean well but like chamberlain they assume everyone else is nice too but they are not.That is why muslims are manipulating liberalchristians into thinking they are peaceful.Trust me,if you study Islam,after they gain more power they will stab liberals in the back like Hitler did toChamberlain.
Sure, because just because it's not a popular belief it means that it's a wrong belief, right? Could you also please tell me what argumentum ad populus means? I'm just not very good at Latin.
Just because something is popular does not necessarily mean it is true but people usually do not buy things that are silly.That is what modern liberal Christianity is. I think modern liberals are well intentioned but what they believe is completely contradictory. If the liberals are right, why believe in Christ? If it is all one big myth? They make xianity into a nice idea. This will not do in the real world. That is why in a generation liberal xianity will only be accepted in small pockets.
Well, I guess, fundamentally, you must ask yourself what a "myth" is. Then, I believe, you must ask yourself why it is that you believe that absolutely every single religious story in the world is "fictional" (I am presuming -that- is your definition of "myth") apart from the religious stories that exist in the Bible.
What i mean by myth is a story that is not rooted in history. My main point is that lib. xianity is not worth living for and sure as hell not worth dying for. All the xians in the world who are being tortured or killed are qouting spong. They are qouting Matt,Mark, Luke, John and the rest. Believing that the stories and teaching are true. Who would die for the "expressed redaction of the Q community"? All lib. xianity can ever be is a tumor on the ass of where Biblical xianity is the major view.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Arghhh. Spong is an insane idiot. You can see how dishonest it is to claim to be a Christian and then try to turn your organization into a secular gay rights activist organization (which he's actually achieved). Why didn't he just honorably leave Christianity and fight for his 'causes' from the outside? This vile lizard of a Bishop has a lot to answer for.
Any person who seeks to undermine and discriminate against adult human beings of the same-sex being in love and sharing a life together are evil and totally against Jesus's message of love.
He's clever at telling people what they want to hear, encouraging them in their sinful, destructive lifestyles. His fellow Bishop, +John-David Schofield, a repentant homosexual, has actually had to remove his entire diocese from the Episcopal Church, because of what Spong has turned it into.
You're from Australia? Your own Archbishop Peter Jensen would not allow Spong to preach in his pulpits when he went there recently, trying to hawk his latest book.
Yes I am from Australia. Peter Jensen most certainly does not represent the views of all members of the Church of England in Australia. Many of us believe that the views of Spong are far more relevant to our modern society.
If you could listen to this man, really listen, he speaks in a way to make us think. Like the Episopal Church says: "Jesus came to take away our sins, not our minds." Christianity is a whole lot more than just quoting scripture. Anyone could do that, look at some of the folks who do this all the time and you'll see my point. Live in the spirit of Jesus, do what he did, dare to think.
Once you tell yourself that Bible is not His Word, you pick & choose verses to approve of ANY lifestyle. Then, you successfully dodged the responsibility to be consistent and non-contradictory in exegesis.
I would like to respond to your criticism of the Bible but dont have much time. Go to your local Christian Church to have a dialog.
If God was going to lay it all down in words, why would he creat something as oblique as the bible, and why would He include so much utter nonsense.You have to pick and choose, the only other choice is to just put it away, actually that is a great idea, just put it away.
Maybe i'm not a christian, maybe i'm bhuddist, or hindu, or heaven forbid ,muslim.I am non of these things, I was brought up in the christian faith, and I think conventional christianity has missed the point of jesus' message.The bible is full of so much utter rubbish it's not funny.Don't get me started.
Indeed, "PjotrII", if you think homosexuality is OK, then you MUST believe that Bible is NOT the word of God because its so obvious that Bible (whether OT or NT)does not approve of it.
It should not take long for any logical thinking person to figure out that God of the Bible (both OT & NT - its the same God)does not approve of this particular sin.
About the afterlife, the OT knows NOTHING about hell, and in many passages there is NO life after death at all. While in the NT there is a heaven described and a hell (mainly in the revelation).
Religion is an evolution of consrtantly changing images of the belief. We believe in angels with WINGS, however no such wings are described in the bible.
Is this guys serious? Is is doing the exact thing he says we should not be doing. This man's pseudo-theosophy is intellectual suicide and has brought about the death of his own Christian faith.
(cont.)...I was born and raised fundamentalist and have read both approaches. I researched both approaches...for the last six years. Fundamentalists have been changing history to match the doctrine. Research on your own - without the preacher. You won't regret it.
Wuebbsco: I always have to smile when I read posts similar to yours. The ones who rip Borg, Crossan, and Ehrman are the ones who haven't read them and are repeating what the preachers told them to believe and say...(cont.)
wow cdi, you must have a pretty liberal view of what a Christian is. Spong doesnt beleive the bible is the Word of God, and he beleives that homosexuality is fully compatible with Christianity. Um, something is wrong here. Notice how so many Non-believers like Spong. There is a reason for that.
I do not agree on some ideas Spong has, still think he raises some important questions.
I am a christian believing in Jesus, but I surely do NOT believe the bible would be the word of God, also I think homosexuality is OK. Non-believers like Spong because he base his idea on reason, in contradiction to fundamentalism.
hi Pjotril, I have no problem with people raising good questions. The truth should never be afraid to answer questions. You have me curious though when you say you are a Christian who believes in Jesus...that's wonderful that the Holy Spirit has opened your heart to the truth of Christ. But what do you think the bible is if Not the Word of God? And on what basis as a Christian do you think homosexuality is ok? just curious! God bless.
I do not believe the bible is "THE" word of God, however i do believe that it (mainly through Jesus) has a message to our world. If you read what Jesus said, you will find a VERY different view on God than the OT gives us. If you focus on what Jesus said, it could easily be understood that he would care for homosexuals.
His message is LOVE, not picture of a God who is jealous and acts like Saddam, killing even innocent people. The OT views are based upon old views in another culture, this comes to the understanding of homosexulaity (that alson in the NT is viewed like something a person chooses). The closest we can undrstand God is through Jesus, not through human darkened OT glasses that in my view totally distorts Jesus (God´s) message.
Fundamentalism is the bastion of the threatened and the ignorant.Phrases like'the holy spirit has opened your heart to the truth of christ'is just pure and annoying rhetoric.A persons sexuality is irrelevant !!Have you read leviticus, what a load of claptrap.
Spong understands ancient literature. There are but a few in the world who do in this modern age. The distinction between modern literature and ancient literature is something most modern people are simply unable to grasp. That includes most so called bible teachers.
What Spong is saying is today's parallel to the "heresy" that Jesus brought to the 1st century. Although I think there is still romm for 'theism' just that 'God' has to be re-invented. That is why our idea of 'God' had to die, to be re-born
Same here. If it weren't for people like Spong and Gil Bailie, I would have stopped reading the Bible long ago. "The Bible is the Word of God" is pop religion. (See Jn. 1:1)
I also am not a non-believer - and Spong is not always correct. The question to be asked is "belief in what?". That God is a genocidal simpleton? Not a chance. Motivate writers to create many different stories about the same event? Not a chance.
(Cont.)..Buy Ehrman's DVD lesson reviewing and explaining the New Testament (Teaching Company). Fundamentalist churches are teaching embarrassing incorrect history. My doubt on this: zero. Challenge yourself to think. If you still believe the nonsense, fine. Give yourself a chance though.
Ehrman was taken to task by Timothy Paul Jones in his book Misquoting Truth. Lee Strobel, a journalist and former atheist, also wrote The Case for the Real Jesus. Check them out when you get a chance.
Each time I saw someone touched by THE HOLY SPIRIT this guy never needed to read any document. Because it has to be told by the holy spirit speeking himself throught him. Unfortunatly for him its not the case. NOT AT ALL !!!
MegaDudu999 1 month ago
Nope.. Koori dreaming aka "the australian Aboriginal religion" ? lol.. Aka the oldest living culutre of love, respect, equality ect. In the history of man !.. 40,000 years to say the absolute least ! Lolzz seems the teachings of christ are identical to our own but can you read between the lines ? Lolz I rekon some of yas are finaly getn it !
ChuRRRbWoii 5 months ago
Zen Christianity?
TheAwakenedHeretic 5 months ago
While I admire, respect & commend the works of Mr. Sponge in the area of civil rights & social justice, it must be equally acknowledged that his teachings & interpretations of the Gospels& epistles are quite clearly flawed & misleading. Many traditional catholic, reformed, & protestant churches opposed segregation without adopting a theological position which undermines the Gospels (as Mr. Sponge does). See the works of NT Wright, Cone, CS Lewis, A Evans, Cone, C.Stanley, R.Zacarias & others
shieldsff 7 months ago
@shieldsff So his made up stuff is completely different from other people's made up stuff?
TomFynn 3 months ago
i love this guy he is amazing i hope he lives forever omg
pennywhistle88 9 months ago 3
Sigh! Bishop Spong speaks unnecessarily confrontative and provocative. Most of his visions about a "new Christianity" and a "new reformation" is already there, but it is "theistic" and "panentheistic" at the same time -- it is very tolerant to various opinions. He don't need to confront "theism", and he don't need to explicitly reject "supernaturalism" in order to get the Christianity he seems to be out for.
siderespector 10 months ago
There is no god. Stop preaching about things that nobody can possibly demonstrate or know.
Your politics are as stupid and as irrational as the Fundiegelicals'. Don't bother me with this nonsense and your purple shirt looks stupid .
NixonisLord 11 months ago
This guy is probably considered a heretic amongst the other pastors.
AmorBravo 1 year ago 2
The most brilliant spokesperson for what Christianity can and should be!
phoenixtimes2 1 year ago 8
@phoenixtimes2 where is the holy spirit on him ? He speak a lot about LOVE, does he radiates LOVE ? NO AT ALL !!! The blinds lead the blinds said JESUS.
MegaDudu999 1 month ago
@phoenixtimes2 He is preparing the New world Order for sure.
MegaDudu999 1 month ago
So, Spong is a closet Taoist...
NGC6144 1 year ago
Spongianity FTW!!1
aeroshock1 1 year ago
You had stated you would ask Paul if he was Gay or not when you get to heaven. You better hope Satan will let you write letter from there but you seeing him is going to be a sline chance !
I will pray for you to nite for you to come back to Jesus and leave your religish views alone ! You need to get on your Knees tonite and ask Jesus to comre back to you !
turtle4aire 1 year ago
wow. pantheism at it's finest. honestly, i've never seen so much heresy packed in 8 minutes.
florinu123 1 year ago
@florinu123
Better than worshiping some bastard that told everyone he was the son of jehovah to cover up the fact that his mother was gang raped by some roman soldiers. immaculate conception. more like ejaculate conception.
leptismagna10 1 year ago 3
He should just become a unitarian...
jackooboy1 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What a MAROON. Sorry. Poor guy. deluded by his own Self-aggrandizement...yikes.
fischerpilne 1 year ago
fischerpilne wrote: "What a MAROON"
You're calling Bishop Spong a dark-brownish shade of red? How unusual. Are all of your discerning and critical remarks coded according to various color hues?
merkavahvision 1 year ago 33
@merkavahvision Touche..You're right - I was spewing out my OWN self-aggrandizement in my comment. I do not at all agree with Bishop Spong; he waters down the Gospel message of Jesus Christ to the point where he's stating his own opinions, but for me to call him names serves no good purpose. Your point is well taken.
To explain the 'what a maroon' statement: I was quoting Bugs Bunny, who, instead of saying "what a moron," would say, "what a maroon."- guess you kind of had to be there.
fischerpilne 1 year ago
@merkavahvision And it's not even accurate! The Biship is wearing black and a kind of dark blue.
smellincoffee 1 year ago
@fischerpilne "What a MAROON"
@merkavahvision "a dark-brownish shade of red?"
Yes, a very nice shade of red!
siderespector 10 months ago
@merkavahvision ha
MoDeeSeventyThree 8 months ago
@merkavahvision
Wow. Thirty-three thumbs up from comlete idiots who have no idea that "maroon" is a term of derision often uttered by Bugs Bunny when referring to a dopey adversary. It is a mispronunciation of the word "Moron"
I've got no dog in the fight regarding the religious stuff. I could care less. But thirty three "maroons" who don't know where the word came from or from what context is damn funny. :) Maroons...
TheKanagawaboy 2 months ago
It also refers to runaway slaves that started communities together and is thought by some to be of racist origin regarding ole "Bugs" ;) Really people, pick up a book. Fucking idiots. All of you.
TheKanagawaboy 2 months ago
@TheKanagawaboy
oops. Left of the "p" when writing "complete." Can't let you "maroons" hold that one against me ;)
TheKanagawaboy 2 months ago
SKOUBALA.
BlueMondaey 1 year ago
all these hardened Christians sharing their usual and plain views on the very strict and dictative bible, you know what sirs and ma'ams, i cant fucking wait till the "rapture" comes because the ones that realize that we are one and you are god because god is you will be the ones to move on. life isnt this series of trial and error in the eyes of god, rather it is what you make it. if you feel safe with materializing god then go for it you have that right, however that doesnt make you right
lulzlaby 2 years ago
2 Corinthians: v 13 - 15
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workman, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. (in fact he's the prince of darkness) It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. "
KlaughTheUnstoppable 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It is intellectual suicide and dishonesty to claim Christianity while denouncing the Bible, the defining foundational scriptures separating Christian from non-Christian for over 2000 years.
It is also a lie and intellectual suicide to equate racial bigotry with disapproval of behavior. It is no more bigotry to discourage homosexual behavior than to discourage pedophilia or cheating on university exams. Should it be a hate crime also to disapprove of hate crimes? Shall we say, "judge not"?
danieljdick 2 years ago
"Shall we say, 'judge not?'"
Yes, let's. Put your disapproval of homosexuals away and judge ye not.
llippitz 2 years ago
Is it always wrong to judge?
Is it wrong to judge terrorists?
Pedophiles? Murderers?
Is it wrong to judge supporters of Hitler?
How about followers of Mohammad?
How about followers of Jesus?
Is it wrong to judge those who advocate vegan diets? or avoidance of drinking or smoking or taking drugs?
Is it wrong to judge those who practice abstinance? If so, is it it wrong to judge those who encourage others to do so?
Is it wrong to homosexual acts are sinful?
Is it judging to say so?
danieljdick 2 years ago
There's no such thing as intellectual suicide, it's bigoted to conflate homosexuality with raping children, and the bible is a fucking wreck.
coprographia 2 years ago
How much of the bible was assembled by religious authorities with an agenda? I wonder what jesus response would be upon his finishing reading the bible? I bet he would be furious!!!
99minerkc 2 years ago 5
Not at all. First, God doesn't get surprised or caught off guard. Second, He's competent to keep His Word and make it in such a way that it interprets itself and that the interpretation becomes correct and beneficial when the apparent conflicts are resolved within and it is correctly understood with the help of the Holy Spirit. But a hundred years from now when we're all in heaven or hell, winning an argument won't mean much. Faithfulness to God will. Give up Jesus or give up sin.
danieljdick 1 year ago
You presume to know what a supposed god thinks? Wow, interesting! You also NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION, why?
Regarding hell google: Hinnom " Valley-Jerusalem" then click on "PICTURE OF THE REAL HELL"
educate yourself and shed your ignorance!
99minerkc 1 year ago
You presume I'm ignorant and not you, and that is a particular form of stupidity called "arrogance". This making hell out to be a grave or garbage dump was proven foolish by Matt. 10:28 and Luke 12:5 where Jesus tells us not to fear him who kills the body but him who has authority to cast into, um, now what are you going to say? Don't fear the terrorist or the murderer who can kill you, but fear the undertaker who may throw you into the grave? Now tell me who is ignorant and at risk eternally
danieljdick 1 year ago
You still HAVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTION, why? No, I don't presume you're ignorant, I know you are!
99minerkc 1 year ago
Try connecting your replies to your question so people might know what question is being "avoided", and you're a lying, abusive jerk. What Bible translation are you talking about? JW's? Mormons? Fine. Granted, some twist scripture. Read it in context, and the contradictions will prove out the mistranslations. But, you clearly have no clue how meticulous many translators were or how much of the original texts are available or you would not make this empty insinuation through your question
danieljdick 1 year ago
Do you have any clue how many copies of old testament scriptures have been found in diverse locations and compared word for word with incredible accuracy or what was required of the scribes or how they tallied or did something akin to a checksum to assure accuracy? Do you have any clue of how many prophecies in new testament times were in those texts written hundreds of years prior to Christ? Have you heard the word "synoptic" or heard of the "Synoptic Gospels"?
danieljdick 1 year ago
Synoptic means different writers told the story of Christ from different viewpoints. Matthew, Mark, and John are three witnesses telling three different stories. If you want to challenge the "correctness" of scripture, study Greek and go back to a version too early to be within the reach of some kind of redactor or revisionist with an agenda. Even if you cannot get back to the old Greek that is run together in caps, the koine greek should suffice. And yes, it proves there is a hell.
danieljdick 1 year ago
I wonder if this speaker has read Teilhard? Universality and embracing new interpretation of scripture... Divinity is beneath and within us all... And there are many paths to release it. Some paths must grow as our world grows. Here's to a deeply spiritual and united world in the 21st century.
thepathlesspath 2 years ago
New Age Theology of The great "I AM" spirituality movement. What a load of garbage! This is what you will be left with when the real church is raptured! Have fun durring the tribulation!
whereareyou222 2 years ago
DOUCHE
springheeledjack8181 2 years ago
Notice that he has an almost English accent. Where is he from?
tlh215 2 years ago
He was actually born and raised in North Carolina.
itsmethesarahj 2 years ago
He was born in North Carolina but spent most of his life in New Jersey a Bishop of the Episcopol church.
TLucretiusCarus 2 years ago
I bet this man also believes that Jesus was loved in his day....
I bet this man believes the apostles were loved in their day....
I bet this man IS loved at present because he is merely advocating a cultural Christianity that prides itself on its "non-judgmental" attitude.
Unfortunately ANYONE who has spent even a few hours in the New Testament would know such an approach is wrong.
I suppose it is wrong to tell someone murder is wrong, too.
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
私のスペースの歓迎、私は私のビデオ、独学方法でそして情熱こと をの事実を見ることで楽しむことを望む。聞いたおよびであるずっ と私からのすべてのプロダクト見る何が、 私は見られ、コメントされること自分自身を予断する! あらゆる情報のためにこの住所電子メールに私に連絡する
PrattvilleCityLimits 2 years ago
Spong is such an intelligent and good man. I wonder why he even bothers anymore w/ Christianity. His version is ideal but it's not Biblical. He's so close to atheism. Trying to justify a 2, 000 yr old piece of fiction in the 21st Century is like trying to justify Zeus. I feel bad for him, sometimes. He's too bright and creative for the career he chose. Perhaps admitting it's all BS is more difficult than spending the rest of his life apologizing for t fictitious deity who's beneath him.
ritter89 2 years ago
That's horribly wrong. He's the living example of why Christianity is right, and Spong's bringing people to the real, living God not Zeus or some made up entity. Your bigotry against believers has you as closed minded as other fundementalists, so SURE you're right and everyone else is wrong. You need to listen to Spong as badly as they do. That he's bright and creative means he's in exactly the RIGHT career.
ColumbiaCowboy 2 years ago
Real Christians KNOW they are right because Christ LIVES IN THEM and agrees with their conscience.
It is evident you either don't read the Bible enough to speak on its behalf or you just cannot read it.
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
Spong sees himself to be Tillich's direct heir. There are connections for sure, but it is not direct I suspect as Spong thinks. Those who are so quick to denounce Spong, though, tend invariably to be ignorant to the roots of his views. The call for ongoing reform cannot be denied or the church falls into authoritarianism, which is not faith. And besides, it is convenient to call anything other than one's own views of Christianity "gnosticism."
gamorgan1 2 years ago
This is sad. Why is he a Christian then?
Dystopiologist 3 years ago
He's not one.
littleredbirdy 3 years ago
Good point!
I stand corrected - he's not a Christian.
Dystopiologist 3 years ago
He is what we call a cheap gnostic in the game of preaching.
Better to be a complete gnostic than a cheap gnostic, because both receive the same reward.
littleredbirdy 3 years ago
My-my-my,yet another christian spreading his "love" all around. I am amazed.
ManInRevolt 2 years ago 3
You should see Muslims... they're even more "loving"...
Varda87 2 years ago
Love includes correction. Love includes telling people the truth even if they don't like it.
Why do you think everyone hated Christ? It was because he told them the truth and they hated the truth.
How did I do something unloving? At least explain instead of giving cheap condescending remarks.
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
>Love includes correction. And excludes bigotry. >Why do you think everyone hated Christ? I dont even think he existed. At least,the Christ of contradicting gospels definetly didn't.
ManInRevolt 2 years ago
Please show me where I have been bigoted.
If you don't think he existed then you aren't at the liberty to discuss morality within the context of Christianity.
I am attacking Spong's heresies and am I no way obliged to debate atheists or those who aren't claiming to be Christian.
You believe love is just about letting everyone do anything they want without saying a word. You believe love is tolerance of all things. You believe love is acceptance of all things.
That's not love.
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
>Please show me where I have been bigoted.
"so many pseudo Christians are spitting the most blasphemous lies." Will this do?
>If you don't think he existed then you aren't at the liberty to discuss morality within the context of Christianity. Do I have to believe in fairies to discuss an idea of fairies too?
>no way obliged to debate atheists or those who aren't claiming to be Christian.
Well,then you're not "obliged" to debate me.
>You believe ...
You don't know,what i believe.
ManInRevolt 2 years ago
I am intolerant of evil and heresy, but not of people. I am merely judging his words.
Strawman fairy argument. I said we are talking about morality in a Christian context, something you are in no way involved in.
I am not obliged to even read your comments. I am not debating you, I am explaining why this man doesn't understand his own supposed religion.
I know you disbelieve in Christ as savior and I don't need to know much else about you.
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
"I know you disbelieve in Christ as savior and I don't need to know much else about you. "
Oh well,I think,that this comment alone clearly shows,what a "loving" person you are. I'd like to end it here.
ManInRevolt 2 years ago
Facts make me unloving?
By definition you are an anti-Christ and are incapable of doing a single good act. Don't feel bad because I am a worm just like you are.
You don't even know what love is! The term is thrown around so much it has lost virtually all meaning.
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
"By definition you are an anti-Christ and are incapable of doing a single good act." I don't care about your stupid definitions,even if they're straight from the "holy" book,cause I don't believe none of this superstitious nonsense,really.
ManInRevolt 2 years ago
Who is the bigot here?
You just lumped all people of faith together and essentially called us ignorant in the same way a white male from the 19th century would have called blacks ignorant.
What is your definition of love? Complete tolerance of all things?
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
"You just lumped all people of faith together" No,I just said,that the bible is bullshit,in my opinion. Look,I don't care what you think about me,what your "holy" book says on the topic and I really see no point in continuing this conversation,ok?
>What is your definition of love? That's like asking "What is your definition of warmth?"
ManInRevolt 2 years ago
A dispicable lie. Comparing those who CHOOSE to believe something to black people is ridiculous, and given the incredible hateful and ignorant things you're saying it's no WONDER thinking people have a rotten attitude towards people of faith. When they see nothing but people like you, we deserve the criticism. Ignorant is about the only way to describe your insulting and ridiculous comments.
ColumbiaCowboy 2 years ago
That's a ridiculous and incredibly unChristian lie. A person who doesn't believe in Jesus as savior is NOT "anti-Christ" and saying they're incapable of doing a single good act is horribly bigoted and downright stupid. Are you saying ONLY Christians can do good acts? The Dalai Lama never did a good act? Jewish people? Muslims never did ANYTHING but evil?
There's nothing remotely Christian about this attitude, it's just plain, simple and stupid hate.
ColumbiaCowboy 2 years ago
Warmth is not an overused term.
Define love. Is that too much to ask?
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
You still have no yet explained how I have not been loving.
If a child acts out of place it is the parents job to correct them. If correction is hate then please allow your children to raise themselves without raising any objecting voice.
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
Let me remind you about your comment,that we're talking about... Quote.
"He is what we call a cheap gnostic in the game of preaching.
Better to be a complete gnostic than a cheap gnostic, because both receive the same reward. " End of quote. Where is any "correction" of anyone here? As for being unloving,I don't think,that,f.e., I should explain,why calling someone "cheap" is unloving.
ManInRevolt 2 years ago
That's not bigotry.
He is a cheap gnostic because he doesn't admit it. If he admitted it I would call him a gnostic without the need to go any further with the description. I could elaborate on some fundamental gnostic beliefs this man holds but I will leave that up to those who actually care enough.
Both do receive the same reward according to the God this man claims.
You haven't exactly said how it was unloving to call him what he is. I didn't insult him. I didn't curse him.
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
This universal teaching makes me sick, quite literally. It depresses me that so many pseudo Christians are spitting the most blasphemous lies.
If you want to agree with these teachings go ahead, but do not fancy yourself a true Christian if you do.
I'm proud to live in a time where the true message of Christ is so bastardized. Why? It is God's will for it to happen, so I am grateful for my surroundings.
littleredbirdy 3 years ago
Feel free to "fancy yourself a true Christian". No problem.
ManInRevolt 2 years ago
Who are you to decide who gets to call themself a true christian? I don't remember voting you in to be the judge.
gracerules2008 2 years ago
Actually the Bible did.
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
"But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."
The apostles are clear in what it means to be a follower of Christ. This man is not and you'd know that if you'd read the Bible even a little bit.
littleredbirdy 2 years ago
This really a glimpse of the future of Christianity in the 21st century. Knowledge about Ethics being accessible without Religion and the reality about Religion revealed by the history of Religions development from human culture alone being known by more and more in this age of Information will require it.
myintellectualjourny 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I WOULD NOT listen to this guy if I were you, God is Very real, and He wnts to be personally involved in our lives, he asks us to come to him as children, Jesus Died for our sins!, we are Not equal to God, This man's perspective is based on Pride. He does not Know the God of the bible, this man is an embassasment to christianity and does not represent the church as he claims to, he should not be wearing that dog collar, his faith takes people away from God, to look at ourselves as great.
Mike
Michaelgush 3 years ago
Arent your words also not of love? Lool XD
ascendrian 3 years ago
I know God loves us but this man does not know God.. he is leading people away from a relationship with our Father, who wants to be in a relationship with us..
i can only tell of what i have seen of God.. cheers. mike
Michaelgush 3 years ago
Amen! Praise God that you are standing firm and contending for the Truth, for the Faith. The Lord bless you, Mike.
Utopiang 3 years ago
Anybody who gets JOY out of the idea of HELL is not godly or Jesus-like. Jesus would never find joy in that he was in heaven, while his loved ones are burning in hell. Do you think heaven would be fun when you know that you're loved ones are burning? I thought this religion was about love, guess not, it's about telling people they are gonna burn. People with nothign rewarding in their lives may find this a relief, I find it evil.
Go Shelby, your preaching is incredible.
BugzLooney 3 years ago 37
Agreeed. Heck, Jesus would probably go to hell himself in my place, because of his love.
wolfborn10 3 years ago
@BugzLooney Satan will do anything to get the people to turn on the bible. If you can get them to start changing the bible up to meet the needs of man now. You will not know what the bible is when Jesus returns to get his flock. All you are seeing now is that great change that is hoped for by Satan.
turtle4aire 1 year ago
@turtle4aire
If Satan represents the equality, love and justice that man needs now (y'know, coz religion has delivered shit) then i think it makes more sense to worship Satan.
Or maybe Satan played a trick so clever as to make you believe he was jesus, son of god. have an open mind.
leptismagna10 1 year ago 4
So what "immorality" is he advocating?
bamadawgsc 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
gay love and boy love, this guy is a fake child gay love fuck head, i bet he touch children
MrRightAllTime 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"for certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in amoung you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a licence for immorality..." Jude 4
Jesus said "Then he will say to those on his left, depart from me you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Mt 25:41. Listen to this guy and you're doomed. Listen to Jesus instead
stubowl1 3 years ago
I appreciate the verses. I think it's sickning how many "Christians" go to listen to this guy; and surely no one will dare question him, he's a bishop after all. He talks with the same form as other cult leaders. He will diminish God's attributes, Jesus' diety, and write something that we're supposed to honor above the established word of God.
EVSjahms 3 years ago
God = Tao, ground of being, I have read Paul Tillich when I was studying religion in college. It is about time all the religions of the world are seen as one. I just bought his book, that is why I am here. His thoughts are similar to Matthew Fox and Thomas Moore, I have read almost everything of the later. Great to have Spong in my library next to Meister Eckhart!
Celloluv 3 years ago 3
You might like "The Tao is silent" By Raymond Smullyan.
spinhook888 3 years ago
Spong is offering a suggesting of what the coming of Christ was about. Jesus didn't represent any of these destructive scriptures in the bible. His message was to be able to walk with your neighbor with love and acceptance no matter what race, religion, or sexual orientation they are. Spong is explaining how complex the bible is and the way that is transcending through time.
Jexka007 3 years ago 5
got that right....great comment Jexka....hope you're havin' a great summer.
ratonnewmex 3 years ago
this "christianity" spong is talking about is NOT christianity, if the man wants to start his own religion he should just come out and do so instead of trying to tweak one already widely accepted to fit his own idealogies, he is right however, for christianity to become what he is describing requires the death of everything christianity is. How then, i ask, does whatever emerges out of this "reformation" even bear the name christianity?
lauddyboi 3 years ago
It's an unfortunate sign of the times I'm afraid. You're right. He should just start his own new church, really.
sthomas68 3 years ago
this man is fucking brilliant, God is not christian or muslim or whatever, god is a force unseen by many, jesus was just another magician like criss angel. Also he kept a dark secret with his whore mary magdalene
aldolowe 3 years ago
This guy is smarter than Jesus Christ.
fringer814 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I would hate to be you when you face your Creator and explain why you admire someone who seeks to "create" God in the image of man rather than bowing his knee to the Creator who is self-defined and utterly sufficient and requires and deserves our worship.
dennisboren 3 years ago
what exactly makes you think that will happen? because it's in a book? wtf? What about if i have a book that says we end up as invisible purple teapots on Mars - does that make my theory just as credible as yours? if not, why not?
penno2 3 years ago
sorry, was directed towards dennisboren's comment below. musta clicked on the wrong "reply"?!?!
oops haha
penno2 3 years ago
If that happens to me, the first question I'll ask when I meet my so called Creator is "so, which god are you? are you zeus? apollo? the Abrahamic god? Baal? thor?" ... I assume you're a Christian that by mere accident was born in America (or another christian-majority nation) during this millenia and raised in Christian creeds, much like I was. I'm just glad I opened up. pretty amazing considering I was raised as a southern baptist
Jared5Belmont 3 years ago 2
"...I'll ask when I meet my so called Creator is "so, which god are you? are you zeus? apollo? the Abrahamic god? Baal? thor?" "
There is only one "Creator" God. No other tradition but the Christian has a God who "creates."
NeoConvert 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What is your god's name
MrBest85 3 years ago
I have a question for all our liberal xian friends out their. Why do you ally yourselves with muslims against evangelicals? Many lib's do not like evangelicals because they do not want to recognize gay marriage but do you relive that if this country was muslim, there would be no "gay marriage debate". Actually there would be a debate on gays if this country was muslim. Do we chop their heads off, stone them or line them up for firing squad? Your "inclusive vision" will lead to just this.
emopeacekid 3 years ago
I don't know what liberal Christians you have encountered. But I believe that any form of fundamentalism, (Christian, Moslem or Jewish), is evil. Islam fundamentalists are probably the most dangerous, yet the what I view in America as common Evangelical right-leaning Christians, is that violence is a means to an end.
What I view in Jesus Christ, and I believe, is that violence must be abandoned entirely for the future of humanity.
Allan.
allanpopa 3 years ago
The lib. xian church in a neighboring town allowed a muslim iman to have a prayer call in her church. The iman also told me that a pastor in a unitarian church let him present islam and ask people if they would like to convert DURING A CHURCH SERVICE!!! The Pastors daughter became a muslim! And the iman boasted about this to me. Islam is an intrisically political religion. If they can take over they will. Christianity is not intrisically religious that is why the US can have religious freedom.
emopeacekid 3 years ago
I also hear lib. xians holding the same basoc view as Oprah. All religions are basically the same and just as we have our extremists so do they. But look at how each views history. The Majority of Con. xians look at the crusades and Inq. as bad.Muslims view their conquests in the 1st 3 cen. of their history as proof of Islams divinity. Their "glory days" were when they took over. Our glory days were when we were being martyred.
emopeacekid 3 years ago
To say that all religious have their good followers and bad followers is correct as far as it goes but to say that all religiouns are basically the same is like saying "well it doesn't matter who you vote for Republican or democrat, they are all corrupted. All politcical parties are basically the same and want to help the US." I know lib. xians would totally disagree with this since they think that Bush was basically the devil! You must look at the teaching of the religion at its core.
emopeacekid 3 years ago
I certainly think it's a good idea to have open dialogue between different religions, open minded talk never hurt anyone.
I do agree with you that Islam has proven itself to be a very destructive religion and that the heart of Christianity is non-violence, love and inclusiveness.
I however, don't agree with you that there should be a separation of church and state, it certainly is not intrinsic in Christianity. Jesus began his ministry preaching a "kingdom" of God, didn't he.
Allan.
allanpopa 3 years ago
But that kingdom was a spiritual one remember Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world". Of Course we can and should have an influence on the political system but to merge politics and religion has proven dangerous historically. They should remain in two different sphere's. Politics operates with power from the top down. Religion should operate from the bottom up.
emopeacekid 3 years ago
When Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world" I do believe that he was comparing his vision of "kingdom" to the Roman vision of "kingdom". He said after that if it were of this world, his disciples would not have let him be captured. In other words, "If his kingdom were like the Roman empire, he would have attempted victory through violence."
What ever you think about the separation of religion and politics, it did not exist in the first century. Religion and poiltics were basically one.
allanpopa 3 years ago
What about where Jesus states that "render to ceasar the things that are ceasars and unto God the Things that are God's." And also when the devil tested him and offered him all the kingdoms Jesus refused?
emopeacekid 3 years ago
Yes, Jesus is a tricky character, remember though that for the first century Jews -everything- belonged to God, even Caesar's empire.
Satan offered to make Jesus the Roman emperor. Jesus refused because his kingdom did not function like that.
The very fact that he calls it, "Basilea tou theou" The Kingdom of God, is enough reason to believe that it had political implications. The very fact that Jesus was understood as the Messiah meant that his message had political implications.
allanpopa 3 years ago
Of course it had political implications but the essential character of the kingdom wasn't political in how we think of it today. When Jesus said "repent for the kingdom is at hand" he was not asking herod and the high priests to step down and let him lead. He was asking the nation to stop trying to kick the gentiles out and instead be a light to them and love them no matter what until they saw the truth of the God of Israel.
emopeacekid 3 years ago
In fact, the very fact that Jesus spoke about "religion" meant, in the first century, that he spoke about "politics".
Allan.
allanpopa 3 years ago
"Jesus began his ministry preaching a "kingdom" of God, didn't he." -allanpopa
Well Allan, one thing to take into consideration was that Jesus usually spoke in metaphors, allegory, and parables. The "Kingdom of God" should not be seen as a term indicating some kind of universal monarchy, but a reality that is the source of all that IS. It is not external, but as Jesus said in Luke 17:20-21, it is "within you"!!
blackiebori 3 years ago
No one interprets Luke 17:20-21 existentially. It's "within" you in the same sense as Jesus was preaching to a community of followers who, collectively, were the kingdom of God on earth.
When you get to the nitty-gritty, Jesus' message was very real, very powerful and very important.
Allan.
allanpopa 3 years ago
Jesus' message WAS very real, very powerful, and very important. He used tactful methods of explaining the unexplainable to people who would not be able to understand the real message if it weren't given in the way it was.
blackiebori 3 years ago
Yes, he did use tactful methods, one could not explicitly state that the Roman empire was wrong or that the Jewish religio-political systems were against the will of God. Thus, Jesus used tact, i.e. aphorisms and parables to explain most of these things.
Allan.
allanpopa 3 years ago
Yes, even the Roman Empire and Jewish kingdoms were trying to set things right, but sometimes violence was used to enforce whatever they were trying to accomplish. Some say violence isn't the answer.
blackiebori 3 years ago
In Jesus, I find that violence is not only never the answer, but should be abandoned entirely for the future of humanity as a divine imperative.
Allan.
allanpopa 3 years ago 2
I definitely agree!!!!!
blackiebori 3 years ago
Excellent! Beyond that, beyond establishing God's kingdom of justice and peace on the earth, debate is just mental masturbation. -Good fun, but ultimately empty.
Allan.
allanpopa 3 years ago
..................................
blackiebori 3 years ago
Such an intelligent man. What a great vision for the church. So approachable and inclusive. Who else agrees?
ricsyd99 4 years ago 3
Thank God People get to listen to this and see that it is horseshit. In a generation this crap will be only in isolated pockets in our country but true Biblical Christianity will continue on preaching the gospel of Jesus. That is why liberal mainline churches are dying like a leaf broken off from a tree while Evangelicals will be 1.3 billion strong by 2050. Sorry Spong but people are not buying it.
emopeacekid 4 years ago
I beg to differ, Emo. People listen to this and realise that maybe Bishop Spong has a point. Does God really exist as an entity in heaven looking down on all of humanity and judging us all individually? Heaven, hell or purgatory?? That seems like a rather old fashioned and somewhat unrealistic view of Christianity today. Is it really that hard to imagine that we have God inside of us? With the same Christian values that we all know but one that is within us rather than without?
ricsyd99 4 years ago 2
The Bible has always taught that God is inside of us.This is not new.What I am saying is that Spong'sChristianity will only fit in academia but not in the real world.I believe liberals are nice people who mean well but like chamberlain they assume everyone else is nice too but they are not.That is why muslims are manipulating liberalchristians into thinking they are peaceful.Trust me,if you study Islam,after they gain more power they will stab liberals in the back like Hitler did toChamberlain.
emopeacekid 3 years ago
Sure, because just because it's not a popular belief it means that it's a wrong belief, right? Could you also please tell me what argumentum ad populus means? I'm just not very good at Latin.
Allan.
allanpopa 3 years ago
Just because something is popular does not necessarily mean it is true but people usually do not buy things that are silly.That is what modern liberal Christianity is. I think modern liberals are well intentioned but what they believe is completely contradictory. If the liberals are right, why believe in Christ? If it is all one big myth? They make xianity into a nice idea. This will not do in the real world. That is why in a generation liberal xianity will only be accepted in small pockets.
emopeacekid 3 years ago
Well, I guess, fundamentally, you must ask yourself what a "myth" is. Then, I believe, you must ask yourself why it is that you believe that absolutely every single religious story in the world is "fictional" (I am presuming -that- is your definition of "myth") apart from the religious stories that exist in the Bible.
Allan.
allanpopa 3 years ago
What i mean by myth is a story that is not rooted in history. My main point is that lib. xianity is not worth living for and sure as hell not worth dying for. All the xians in the world who are being tortured or killed are qouting spong. They are qouting Matt,Mark, Luke, John and the rest. Believing that the stories and teaching are true. Who would die for the "expressed redaction of the Q community"? All lib. xianity can ever be is a tumor on the ass of where Biblical xianity is the major view.
emopeacekid 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Arghhh. Spong is an insane idiot. You can see how dishonest it is to claim to be a Christian and then try to turn your organization into a secular gay rights activist organization (which he's actually achieved). Why didn't he just honorably leave Christianity and fight for his 'causes' from the outside? This vile lizard of a Bishop has a lot to answer for.
CAndiron 4 years ago
It's not Bishop Spong that's the idiot.
Any person who seeks to undermine and discriminate against adult human beings of the same-sex being in love and sharing a life together are evil and totally against Jesus's message of love.
Bishop John Shelby Spong is a living saint.
Jonto72 4 years ago 2
He's clever at telling people what they want to hear, encouraging them in their sinful, destructive lifestyles. His fellow Bishop, +John-David Schofield, a repentant homosexual, has actually had to remove his entire diocese from the Episcopal Church, because of what Spong has turned it into.
CAndiron 4 years ago
Correction - Schofield is a celibate heterosexual. The accusation of homosexuality was the result of activist slander.
CAndiron 4 years ago
Why don't you just listen to what he is saying? Doesn't it make sense when you REALLY LISTEN?
ricsyd99 4 years ago 2
You're from Australia? Your own Archbishop Peter Jensen would not allow Spong to preach in his pulpits when he went there recently, trying to hawk his latest book.
CAndiron 4 years ago
Yes I am from Australia. Peter Jensen most certainly does not represent the views of all members of the Church of England in Australia. Many of us believe that the views of Spong are far more relevant to our modern society.
ricsyd99 4 years ago
If you could listen to this man, really listen, he speaks in a way to make us think. Like the Episopal Church says: "Jesus came to take away our sins, not our minds." Christianity is a whole lot more than just quoting scripture. Anyone could do that, look at some of the folks who do this all the time and you'll see my point. Live in the spirit of Jesus, do what he did, dare to think.
ppearson 4 years ago
(...continue...)
Once you tell yourself that Bible is not His Word, you pick & choose verses to approve of ANY lifestyle. Then, you successfully dodged the responsibility to be consistent and non-contradictory in exegesis.
I would like to respond to your criticism of the Bible but dont have much time. Go to your local Christian Church to have a dialog.
izBaku 4 years ago
If God was going to lay it all down in words, why would he creat something as oblique as the bible, and why would He include so much utter nonsense.You have to pick and choose, the only other choice is to just put it away, actually that is a great idea, just put it away.
cwegers 4 years ago
I won't be taking your advice, and neither should you.
PTWTMinistries 4 years ago
Maybe i'm not a christian, maybe i'm bhuddist, or hindu, or heaven forbid ,muslim.I am non of these things, I was brought up in the christian faith, and I think conventional christianity has missed the point of jesus' message.The bible is full of so much utter rubbish it's not funny.Don't get me started.
cwegers 4 years ago
I can call "oblique" and "utter nonsense" ANY text or any section from Little Mermaid to Atheist's Manifesto.
The best way not to deal with sin and God is actually to "put it away, just put it away"...
Obviously you've made up your mind and we know Who can change it.
izBaku 4 years ago
Indeed, "PjotrII", if you think homosexuality is OK, then you MUST believe that Bible is NOT the word of God because its so obvious that Bible (whether OT or NT)does not approve of it.
It should not take long for any logical thinking person to figure out that God of the Bible (both OT & NT - its the same God)does not approve of this particular sin.
(...to be continued...)
izBaku 4 years ago
The same God? At least the view changes dramatically! In the OT God is
* a jealous God (Exodus 20.5)
while coming to the NT it describes God as
* love (1 joh4.8)
and to make clear those statements are not the same the NT says
* Love is not jealous (1 Chor 13.4)
So God "changes" or to be correct, the view oif God changes from beeing a Jealous God to become a loving God in Jesus!
PjotrII 4 years ago
About the afterlife, the OT knows NOTHING about hell, and in many passages there is NO life after death at all. While in the NT there is a heaven described and a hell (mainly in the revelation).
Religion is an evolution of consrtantly changing images of the belief. We believe in angels with WINGS, however no such wings are described in the bible.
PjotrII 4 years ago
Is this guys serious? Is is doing the exact thing he says we should not be doing. This man's pseudo-theosophy is intellectual suicide and has brought about the death of his own Christian faith.
Semcraig 4 years ago
(cont.)...I was born and raised fundamentalist and have read both approaches. I researched both approaches...for the last six years. Fundamentalists have been changing history to match the doctrine. Research on your own - without the preacher. You won't regret it.
onlytheenemy 4 years ago
Wuebbsco: I always have to smile when I read posts similar to yours. The ones who rip Borg, Crossan, and Ehrman are the ones who haven't read them and are repeating what the preachers told them to believe and say...(cont.)
onlytheenemy 4 years ago
Spong is a True Christian. He loves All of God's Creations and Hates No One.
cdifrances 4 years ago
wow cdi, you must have a pretty liberal view of what a Christian is. Spong doesnt beleive the bible is the Word of God, and he beleives that homosexuality is fully compatible with Christianity. Um, something is wrong here. Notice how so many Non-believers like Spong. There is a reason for that.
wuebbsco 4 years ago
I do not agree on some ideas Spong has, still think he raises some important questions.
I am a christian believing in Jesus, but I surely do NOT believe the bible would be the word of God, also I think homosexuality is OK. Non-believers like Spong because he base his idea on reason, in contradiction to fundamentalism.
PjotrII 4 years ago
hi Pjotril, I have no problem with people raising good questions. The truth should never be afraid to answer questions. You have me curious though when you say you are a Christian who believes in Jesus...that's wonderful that the Holy Spirit has opened your heart to the truth of Christ. But what do you think the bible is if Not the Word of God? And on what basis as a Christian do you think homosexuality is ok? just curious! God bless.
wuebbsco 4 years ago
I do not believe the bible is "THE" word of God, however i do believe that it (mainly through Jesus) has a message to our world. If you read what Jesus said, you will find a VERY different view on God than the OT gives us. If you focus on what Jesus said, it could easily be understood that he would care for homosexuals.
PjotrII 4 years ago
His message is LOVE, not picture of a God who is jealous and acts like Saddam, killing even innocent people. The OT views are based upon old views in another culture, this comes to the understanding of homosexulaity (that alson in the NT is viewed like something a person chooses). The closest we can undrstand God is through Jesus, not through human darkened OT glasses that in my view totally distorts Jesus (God´s) message.
PjotrII 4 years ago
Fundamentalism is the bastion of the threatened and the ignorant.Phrases like'the holy spirit has opened your heart to the truth of christ'is just pure and annoying rhetoric.A persons sexuality is irrelevant !!Have you read leviticus, what a load of claptrap.
cwegers 4 years ago
Spong understands ancient literature. There are but a few in the world who do in this modern age. The distinction between modern literature and ancient literature is something most modern people are simply unable to grasp. That includes most so called bible teachers.
craggles80 4 years ago
What Spong is saying is today's parallel to the "heresy" that Jesus brought to the 1st century. Although I think there is still romm for 'theism' just that 'God' has to be re-invented. That is why our idea of 'God' had to die, to be re-born
bibletester 4 years ago
spong is the last freying link between myself and christianity
cwegers 4 years ago 3
Same here. If it weren't for people like Spong and Gil Bailie, I would have stopped reading the Bible long ago. "The Bible is the Word of God" is pop religion. (See Jn. 1:1)
ferlinghett1 4 years ago
sthomas68, I am not a non-believer, but I think he sounds so good is because he actualy uses reason unlike many other Christians.
James1261 4 years ago 2
I also am not a non-believer - and Spong is not always correct. The question to be asked is "belief in what?". That God is a genocidal simpleton? Not a chance. Motivate writers to create many different stories about the same event? Not a chance.
Patience009 4 years ago 2
(Cont.)..Buy Ehrman's DVD lesson reviewing and explaining the New Testament (Teaching Company). Fundamentalist churches are teaching embarrassing incorrect history. My doubt on this: zero. Challenge yourself to think. If you still believe the nonsense, fine. Give yourself a chance though.
Patience009 4 years ago 2
Ehrman was taken to task by Timothy Paul Jones in his book Misquoting Truth. Lee Strobel, a journalist and former atheist, also wrote The Case for the Real Jesus. Check them out when you get a chance.
crosschecking 4 years ago
I have Jones' follow-up. It was embarrassing and only reinforced over half of what Ehrman said. This is what I'm talking about.
Patience009 4 years ago