Bradley Whitford and Courage Campaign: No telecom immunity!

[ptw1980]

Man, Bradley Whitford is an idiot.

[darkstarownzu]

Let's be clear what we're discussing here. There are two issues, not one.

First, there's the Government ordering telcos to conduct wire taps. Secondly, there's the telcos conducting the wire taps.

If the telco failed to conduct the wire tap, however illegal it may have been, there is a strong legal argument that the CEOs could have been charged with treason.

No where in this debate have Democrats offered legal relief for disobeying a government order.

If the Government orders - you do it!

[KostaA1982]

In order for it to be treason it would have to be a crime, or the planning of a crime, against the Government of the United States. A company refusing to wiretap citizens would not constitute treason. The company had an obligation to request that the government produce a court order. Only when these things are done legally can we ensure that justice would be served. Legally, all evidence complied by the US Government via warrant-less wire tapes would be inadmissible in court.

[deeter131]

If the government orders..you do it?..lol..wow.. I must have missed the news about America changing to a dictatorship....hmmmm

[nitzwalsh86]

So, is Feinstein more malliable on the issue or is Boxer already on board?

[BIonddbythelight]

terrorists just said San Fransico is next on there list! Have the marines pulled out of there yet?

[OnlyOneTyping]

There: THERE is a car driving down the road

Their: Terrorists just said San Francisco is next on THEIR list

They're: THEY'RE talking to each other.

it's simple English, learn it or don't bother speaking it.

[nitzwalsh86]

Give the guy the benefit of a typo and respond to his criticism. Though yes, as I often conflate, They're and their are two very different words.

[TJOPootertoot]

Well, one more step this week and it's game over. Contacting senators does no good, apparently, ESPECIALLY Feinstein, Brad. One thing may get her, and any other senator who voted for this bill- mention the name Donna Edwards (D-MD) to them. They will get it.

[alyceclover]

You can also go to all Senate and House websites and send a direct and quick message on any subject. I am not quite sure what a "filibuster" is. I thought that was like arguing against a bill forever to prevent a vote and quick passage of it. I did not know we could yea or nay them, but ask for a yea or nay vote and give our reasons for it. It does take a while to locate Bills & Resolutions without a number like urge a no to HR1955.

[KostaA1982]

Filibustering Senators can talk about anything ranging from the bill itself to reading recipes out of a cook book (which has been done before._

[KostaA1982]

A filibuster is a procedural tactic. Under Senate rule XIX 1(a.) Usually, the Senator addresses the Senate President and requests the floor. The Senate President then grants the Senator who addresses him/her first, the floor. No Senator can interrupt the speaking Senator without his/her consent. In a filibuster, a Senator holds the floor and talks about anything. It's an effort to wear out supporters of a controversial bill and make them retract the bill from the floor.

[darkstarownzu]

However, in order to gain the floor, the Senator exercising rule XIX(a) (The 'Filibuster') would have to yield the floor.

[jrigeli]

Give the Telecoms immunity. It's the right thing to do. They were simply doing what the government told them to do. Telecoms had no choice. Why should they be blamed for the governments actions? How would you like it if the gov't forced you to turn over records and then you were blamed for it?

I don't get you people at all. No sense of fairness or logic.

[lamtsite]

Because jrigeli that's the excuse nazi soldiers did when they tortured and killed millions: We were simply giving orders.

No. Stand up and say NO.

[jrigeli]

After 9/11, people were screaming the gov't was doing enough from the 9/11 Commission to 9/11 Victims Groups. All sorts of legislation was written - some of it suggesting the Telecoms were obligated - is it any wonder the Telcos acquiesced? Since then, the laws were negotiated and refined, all to the administration and congress satisfaction. And all before any of this got settled in the courts. So now you are going to leave the Telcos holding the bag the government created?

[jrigeli]

By the way, rank and file Nazi soldiers were not held accountable, those that gave orders were. I think it's an injustice that the private sector is being held accountable for the government's action. At least the Senate did the right thing and passed legislation to give immunity, the House is irresponsible for not acting.

[nitzwalsh86]

Those that executed were also held accountable. "We were just following orders," was not an acceptable defense.

[jrigeli]

Those that were executed were Nazis, they volunteered to become Nazi's, they believed in the cause. The Telecoms were obligated to hand over the info, it was their understanding it was the law.

[HanRiordan]

The telecoms knew what they were doing was illegal and should be held responsible. No one forced them to do anything.

[jrigeli]

No they didn't know. You really think the dozens of Telcos and Internet Providers all knew they were doing something illegal and did it anyway? The Senate already voted to give the Telcos immunity. The House needs to do the same. Obviously justice has no meaning to you.

[HanRiordan]

Really? You dont think the Telecoms have lawyers at their disposal who might have thought that maybe warrantless surveillance was illegal? That strikes me as a tad naive.

[jrigeli]

Here's just one example where a court order is not required...

2511. Interception and disclosure of wire, oral, or electronic communications prohibited

(b)a certification in writing by a person specified in section 2518 (7) of this title or the Attorney General of the United States that no warrant or court order is required by law, that all statutory requirements have been met, and that the specified assistance is required.

[nitzwalsh86]

If that is the case, then there is no need for an additional immunity bill... Good research, btw. Secretary Vinick would be proud of your public spiritedness, would that we lived in his America.

[jrigeli]

Because it's going to cost the Telecoms the time and expense to defend themselves?

You know what else bothers me. Before all this became public, the leadership of the Congress, both Democrats and Republicans were briefed and knew this was going.

Essentialy, the government is making the Telecoms the fall guy.

[KostaA1982]

There is no such number under the FISA Act. The FISA law is as follows:

50 US 35 1801-1871.

Under 1801 (A)(1)(2)(3), the President (through the Attorney General) can conduct a warrant-less wire tap ONLY on foreign powers for the purpose of foreign intelligence gathering. Even then the wire tap is only good for one (1) year.

[jrigeli]

I never said it was under FISA. It's part of US Code Title 18. It is just one of many laws the Telecoms cited as their reason for conducting the wiretaps.

My main point is why blame the Telecoms for the Governments actions. Both the Executive Branch and top leaders(Democrats and Repuplicans) were briefed and knew this was going on.

I believe the calls in question originated from outside the United States.

[3chrds]

you all are doing great here!  keep it up!!

[ProlefeedTV]

How did it get to a point where people are asking for retroactive immunity with a straight face?

[TheGiantRobot]

I wonder how many people know the Bush administration has already given itself retroactive immunity for all the war crimes it didn't commit.

[jwyliehall]

Just called Feinstein's SF office and left the message - confirmed my zip code 94114 and noted message received.

[expatted]

Feinstein has gone over to the dark side. She's no better than Bush or Cheney. Thanks for the message Bradley. Will Americans act?? (They usually don't.)

[bndemattei]

I just tried to leave a message for Feinstein's SF office and the mailbox is full! That's good news. I will call back.

[blogswarm]

I sure hope DiFi doesn't cave to the big phone companies on this one -- go Dodd and Feingold!

[bbruhwiler8]

I can never get through to Sen Feinstein's Washington office. She set her phone up that way. But you can reach her LA office at 310-914-7300

[TheGiantRobot]

Thanks, I actually got through to a human being here.

[blogswarm]

More:

619-231-9712 (San Diego)

559-485-7430 (Fresno)

[blogswarm]

Also, I got through to her San Francisco office: 415-393-0707

[TheGiantRobot]

Oh, that would have been even better, although the last times I tried that it was busy. I called the 202 number and it was busy, too.

[blogswarm]

I hope it is because the phones have been ringing off the hook with people saying things like, " The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

[TheGiantRobot]

All I did was tell the intern I wanted Feinstein to support the filibuster, and she asked me my zip code.

The speech doesn't matter too much, they are just counting. I hope a lot of people get through and get counted.

[bilhelm]

You called Feinstein. What did you call her? Useless? Corrupt? Money-puppet?

[bbondbbond]

Dianne Feinstein voted with bush on bigotry (confirming Southwick for a lifetime appointment to federal court). Dianne Feinstein voted with bush on torture (confirming Mukasey for Attorney General even when he wouldn't denounce waterboarding as torture). Will Dianne Feinstein side with Bush, Verizon and AT&T when it comes to illegal wiretapping of Americans without a warrant?

call her office! 202-224-3841.