Rescuing Britain's Christian Heritage

[HolyEmpireofBarton]

Silent, belacqua1, but not inactive, sadly. Also, they are trying to keep others silent as well. I've heard that they have been trying to stop the staff talking about working conditions and the state of business since nearly the start, and they've now forced Dave Walker into silence as well. Dave has been providing a voice for the disaffected and mistreated workforce, letting the truth set people free, so to speak, and now he's been forced to back down by threats of libel, of all things!

[asingleblog]

They tried to silence Dave Walker in the middle of the Lambeth Conference. Now all the bishops of CofE know about them. They'll not get their churches now. They didn't get the Gateshead one because clergy there described them as "a bunch of crooks".

[belacqua1]

The silence is easily explained. The Brewers have presided over the virtual destruction of the fine Christian witness that was SPCK bookshops. They have bullied staff, failed to pay them, culminating (Worcester) in the death of one. They have tried to trick their way into acquiring property. And now they have tried to escape from responsibilty by declaring bankruptcy, as they begin trading under another name. Fraud, death, destruction, theft: with a record like like, thank God they are silent.

[asingleblog]

Brewer tried to silence critics because he knew that the filing for bancruptcy would be challenged and he didn't want the publicity. It's backfired. Now we have seen the court papers and we know about him being a failed politician whose financial dealings were criticised in the Houston Press. Nice people these Brewers.

[Bogue31]

London Missionary Society brought gospel of Jesus Christ to south pacific 140 years ago and set captives free. Cannabalism, slavery, human sacrifices ceased overnight.

The blood of the Lord Jesus Christ washes away our sin.

What has happened to christendom in europe?

[P6e0t0e00]

The thing is.

People cant identify with this kind of christianity!

Its completely pointless to attempt to reach the British population with Eastern Orthodox.

No wonder its church populations are declining.

[ultraothordox]

A message for Phil Brewer: We Brits do not like limp handshakes. For heaven's sake when you next shake a hand will you please do so firmly. I would like to say this to your face but it's difficult when you're trying to evade the handshake.

[ultraothordox]

Mark Brewer do you condone the comment by ERDBEBEN17?

[ERDBEBEN17]

There is silence because even Jesus kept his mouth shut at the accusations of the infidels !May Our Lord Jesus Christ the Redeemer enlighten you to see the TRUTH ! CHRIST IS RISEN !outside God there is only death !

[P6e0t0e00]

Yes, i know.

But when you know what these guys are like you know why they hold their tounges.

What truth?

[ultraothordox]

I've just gone from being Orthodox to infidel. Remember, Jesus asked Pilate,"what is truth?" ERDBEBEN17 tell us your truth. I'll share mine with you.JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN. JESUS CHRIST IS LORD OF ALL. Jesus also said, "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers..." What have the Brewers done to the staff of the shops they are selling without telling them? Jesus does not do shark trading. I don't think Jesus would appreciate church buildings rescued in HIS HOLY NAME through shark trading.REPLY

[P6e0t0e00]

They dont even reply to our comments anymore!

Poor.

[P6e0t0e00]

Hahahahaha,

Dont count on it!

[ultraothordox]

Direct message to Mark Brewer: What are you trying to do? I get buying old churches but I don't get the way you are doing this. Hopefully you will pay suppliers when you sell the shops that were gifted to you.

[P6e0t0e00]

I wouldnt count it mate.

[ultraothordox]

Their silence tells me that they can no longer defend the indefensible. How Christians can put bookshops up for auction without telling the staff in those shops is beyond me. Is this orthopraxis?

[P6e0t0e00]

Pwned SSG.

[ultraothordox]

These people are despicable. I don't think that they can defend themselves. It's all about ego. Why else would they star in their own movie? Why else would they send e-mails with pictures of themselves attached? And they are raking it in. How much money will they get from selling shops that were gifted to them?

[P6e0t0e00]

Eastern Orthodox wont work in the UK today.

The people of this Nation need to see Jesus' love displayed by action and love, not by playing religious dress up in old 'high churches'.

Orthodox is dying/is already dead, in the UK because people find it very hard to experience a living God, who is alive today in churches like this!

Also, whats up with all the icon stuff? Orthodox has got bad news written all over it.

As for the charity, whats going on there?

Poor effort with SPCK.

[shallowcoat]

I don't know which branch of SPCK Fedelmid worked in but what he describes is pretty close to what was happening in the NW. There was poor behaviour from SSG from the outset, starting with their staff sneeking into the shop after people had gone home, rearranging things, laying out their propaganda. This organisation activities are throughly devious and contrary to Christianity. I am concerned the orthodox church will be tarred with their brush.

[ultraothordox]

I don't think the Orthodox Church will be tarred with their brush. Father Gregory Hallam has made sure of that. All who have worked for SPCK and carried on working after SSG took over, know that the Brewers are just rogue traders. Notice the number of different names they go under. They change names when they can't pay accounts. They are devious in the extreme. THEY ARE NOT WHAT ORTHODOXY STANDS FOR.

[fedelmid]

CofEAnglican - I left the employment of SSGCT due to a nervous breakdown. I am one of 6 who were in that situation. One person refused to sign the new contract as was sacked on the spot. Those people who were involved in the negotiation process with USDAW were sacked over the phone. You may think there is nothing bigoted about the SSGCT video but those of us who worked for them know better.

[CofEAnglican]

I do not wish to "ignore," and I do not wish to come off as unsympathetic. But people get sacked for lots of reasons. Just because they do doesn't mean their employer is "bigoted" or "dangerous."

[fedelmid]

Yes people getting sacked does not mean that their employers are not bigoted or dangerous but you seem ignoranty of who SSGCT actually are. This is a body who claim that Evangelicals are going into the pit and the pit is too good for Catholics. Who boast of political support from the BNP for removing the Koran. Please either check out the facts or stop posting.

[NorfolkChurchWarden]

A quick check of SPCK's financial history proves the present problems have nothing to do with SSTG: the shops were failing for many years. When SS came in, all but a fraction had been shuttered already.

Having met the St Stephen people, I can tell you they are not 'bigots' in any way and are Americans who wouldn't have a clue about BNP.

Seems that SSGT's only mistake was taking on the impossible business of running the SPCK bookshops. Do you think you could do better?

[fedelmid]

Someone else taken in by the silver tongue of the Brewers?! While the shops were not making a profit under SPCk the current loss of staff and good will with the publishers is SSGCT fault NOT SPCK's. I doubt the letters from USDAW etc to the press would have happened if SSGCT was doing things honourably.

If needed I can cut and paste their bigoted comments, and if you have read them and agree with them you are as deluded as they are.

[ultraothordox]

I suppose the fact that suppliers are owed money is also SPCK's fault. Wonder if SSGCT or "SS" as you call them will agree that they took on "the impossible business of running the SPCK bookshops"? Or did they just seize on what they thought was a money-making business that would fund their vision as outlined in this video and then became unstuck? Since SSGCT put this video on the tube, one would think that they would try to answer the questions put to them. Could they gift the shops to someone?

[ultraothordox]

People do get sacked for reasons like incompetence. Some get sacked because they do not want to sign contracts that are to their disadvantage (the plight of the poor). You do need to ask why so many people are suddenly sacked by SSG. You also need to ask why some shops where workers have been sacked have a note posted on them saying they will be re-opened after re-stocking. Maybe if SSGCT or formerly SPCK or Third Space Bookshops becomes clearer than the mud it is, this nightmare will end.

[fedelmid]

Well said!! Why get rid of people and then offer the shops out as franchises. This is not good business practice whatever some of their supporters on this deiscussion try and claim.

[12nmo]

well said. maybe some of you should try looking a little further in to mr.brewer

[NeilDenham]

I have been talking to several people from some of the shops this week, some who were sacked (I don't know what other way to put it) by email. What this so called "charity" is doing to a formally useful chain of bookshops is terrible. My thoughts are with all those who find themselves without jobs this week through no fault of their own.

[chambed]

What a truly frightening, bigoted and inaccurate video. I am horrified. This is a travesty of the true picture of the Church in Britain. I am sure it does not reflect the views of mainstream Orthodoxy. What were SPCK thinking when they handed over their bookshops to this organisation? There can be no surprise at the way SSG has treated the loyal and experienced staff of SPCK shops. I am left feeling so, so sad.

[warrior4747]

I wholeheartedly agree with this comment. I can' t believe how dreadful this video is. These people need to be exposed for what they really are.

[CofEAnglican]

I will just again point out that so far as I can tell, SSG are in good standing and appear from this video to have done some very fine work in this country. References to "these people" are insensitive and un-Christian.

[HolyEmpireofBarton]

"from this video"

Yes, from this video, SSG are true saints and heroes of the faith. It's only when you dig a little deeper, find out a little more about how they've handled the SPCK shops that you realise they are at best incompentant, at worst 'unChristian' in their business dealings.

I will not disclose my source for this certainty, for obvious reasons, but they are most certainly reliable and accurate. SSG made too many mistakes, and it's starting to fall apart, sadly.

[CofEAnglican]

I have been watching and reading this and Dave's blog for some time now. I don't know who these bloggers are or whether there is even more than one of them, but I can assure the folks at the former SPCK bookshops that they do not speak for the Church of England. There is simply nothing "frightening, bigoted or inaccurate" about the St Stephen video. It really is shameful that there are those who call themselves Christians who would write such things.

[metamm]

yes it truly is shameful that some people are unable to tell the truth!

I guess good standing depends on your definition of the term being used, and saving a few churches but ruining a few lives, well I guess there is a question indeed.. still thats God's call not mine.

[CofEAnglican]

What is "the truth"?

[spckeasy]

You've acquired bookshops and today you've closed another three. This after you swore that money was not an object and that you would be the biggest on-line retailer. You've sacked workers via e-mail on the pretext of opening the bookshops again after refurbishing - probably with new staff. You accuse Sheffield Cathedral of being anti-Orthodox, yet St Cuthberst's Orthodox community worships at Sheffield Cathedral. Are you aliens?

[fedelmid]

Things are getting worse than ever. It seems that SSGCT are stripping assests and running. So much for rescuing Britains Christian Heritage.

[CofEAnglican]

Wow! "Stripping assets?" Have you notified the police?

Be careful about blogging about this: it will not help and may hinder a prosecution. It for sure will result in an action for libel which puts the burden of proof on you.

[spckeasy]

Oooh I guess we should all start shaking in our boots! The lawyer has spoken. I guess Fr Gregory Hallam (read his Ship-of-Fools blog) should start shaking in his boots too. According to him these people are not in good standing - he wouldn't give them communion if they came to his church.

[NorfolkChurchWarden]

who are "these people" you mention?

[CofEAnglican]

Why would you be shaking in your boots? Why not just take your case to the police-unless of course you don't have support for your claims of "asset stripping" and the like? If you don't have facts or evidence, you are the one who is being most un-Christian here!

[ultraothordox]

Most CofE people know that they are Anglican so change your user name. Do you not understand that spckeasy was mocking you? Also you are getting your bloggers mixed up. Spckeasy did not accuse you of asset stripping. Your staff are not idiots even though you seem to think so. They know what their customers think of you.

[CofEAnglican]

Yes, I understand that you mock anyone with whom you disagree, and you even claim that anyone who disagrees with you on this page must be your (former?) employer. It's pretty obvious that you and "the other" bloggers are the same. - PS -- What kind of user name is "ultra" orthodox??

[ultraothordox]

Get real. Which planet are you living on? I think the same thoughts as the other bloggers?

[CofEAnglican]

No doubt that is because you are the same as the "other" bloggers! It is a pity you have nothing better to do.

[ultraothordox]

"It is a pity you have nothing better to do." What are you doing then? You should be saving people's jobs shouldn't you. It's what a Christian would do. You have money don't you?

[CofEAnglican]

Sometimes one takes a user name that is not exactly the name desired. ("CofE" wasn't available and neither was "Anglican.") Anyway, it hardly justifies your bizarre conclusions.

It's a pity that a disgruntled employee clutters the web with the kind of remarks seen here - which incidentally have nothing to do with the SSG video. Apparently your employer does not (or did not) want to listen to them either! By the way, were you were sacked for cause or made redundant?

[ultraothordox]

You've lost me. I don't know what you're on about.

[HolyEmpireofBarton]

"a disgruntled employee clutters the web"

It's more like the web is cluttered with disgruntled employees, seeing as there seem to be an awful lot of them.

[fedelmid]

I do know what I am talking about - you obviously do not. Legal advice is being taken about what is going on. Sacking people via email, terminating contracts without discussion is illegal, though you seem to wish to ignore this. SPCK is taking legal action against SSGCT, suppliers and ex-staff are consdiering following suit. So rather than support SSGCT out of ignorance please listen to the facts. They are not saints - they are dangerous.

[spckeasy]

This charity seems dead and buried. I'll change my mind when the Brewers are transparent about where they stand.

[fedelmid]

Rumours abound that 4 shops will be closing, two of which have been told to organise buyouts or close. This does not appear to be rescuing Britain's Christian heritage, rather destroying it.

[spckeasy]

Brewer brothers please come clean and let us workers know where we stand.

[fedelmid]

I saw a post (which I now can't find) saying that the pool;e congregation is thriving and miracles are occuring. Maybe the biggest miracle is that there is a congregation as they all left and now worship in a Roman Catholic Church.

[ParlyB]

Does anyone know what is the attitude of the Orthodox churches in the UK is towards the work of the St Stephen the Great Trust?

Which of the Orthodox bishops from the Greek, Russian, Antiochian, Romanian, and Serbian Orthodox churches etc etc have given a blessing to their priests and churches in the UK to work with the SSTG Trust towards its aims?

[SSGCT]

His Eminence, Metropolitan Archbishop Joseph Pop (Romanian Patriarchate - Western Europe) is a founding trustee and consecrated the first church of the trust.

[fedelmid]

The atitude of the Orthodox Church is that they are not mainstream Orthodox, both Orthodox Christian books and the Antiochian Church in the UK have ended their relationship with them. That is why they used a Metropolitan from another branch of Orthodoxy - though SSG claims to be Anthiochian Orthodox and Mr Brewer goes to one of their churches in Houston, Texas.

[ParlyB]

Thank you. The Romanian Orthodox presence is, of course, very small in England; they only have about 5 parishes out of the 165 or so Orthodox parishes in England.

But can I ask if SSTGT has sought and received the blessing of any of the other Orthodox jurisdictions? And which of them were involved in drawing up the charitable aims of the SSTGT prior to its beginning its work in the UK? (Part 1)

[ParlyB]

(Part 2) Has SSTGT has come to the UK with the aim of working with and for the local Orthodox jurisdictions to promote Orthodoxy? The Charity Commission lists the trustees as Mark, Sandra and Karen Brewer so I don't understand the reference to Metropolitan Joseph being a trustee unless he is no longer one? I would really have expected to have seen someone like Archbishop Gregorios as the senior Orthodox cleric in the UK as a trustee if its aim is to promote UK Orthodoxy. Can anyone clarify?

[Eusthatius]

Rescuing churches is beside the point: the built heritage of the church does not constitute the Church. The demography of Christian communities in this country has changed, and it is right for some church buildings to be laid to rest. It is not British Christian heritage SSGCT is trying to salvage: it is attempting to supplant Britain's historic Christian communities with eastern ones. This will only ever be a peripheral interest for most British Christians, let alone the broader population.

[SSGCT]

Whether or not the demography has changed, Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. "Britain's historic Christian communities" were orthodox in their beliefs and practice; this is the essence of what SSG is rescuing.

[Eusthatius]

This is just factually incorrect. Prior to the Reformation, our historic faith was that of the Great Church, east and west. More recently, it has been that of the Western catholic and Reformed traditions. If SSG were really interested in rescuing this, it would support the agenda of the SPCK shops as were: publicising and selling a variety of Christian resources reflecting the diversity of the Christian traditions in this country, and not placing eastern orthodoxy at the heart of its programme.

[fedelmid]

You sem to be completely unaware of British Church history. Does the Synod of Whitby mean nothing to you?

[Eusthatius]

Forgive me. I was under the impression that this Synod aligned all churches in the country under a common system for dating Easter, in uniformity with Rome. It's in Bede, isn't it? What has this to do with present day Orthodoxy in England?

[fedelmid]

Yes, in line with Rome not Constantinople. By then there had already been a schism between the Eastern and Western Churches. Until Whitby the Church in these Isles followed the Eastern form. After Whitby and until the Reformation the British Church was Roman (though not Roman Catholic). Of course SSGCT claims that we were Orthodox until 1066 which brought in no change of church style.

[peten6000]

Amen sammybkr73, why is everybody arguing over a chairty thats trying to do some good work? If were the people god, why are we fighting amoungst ourselves? 'Whoever is for him cannot be against him!!!' We should be supporting one another!! And i support the work of the SSG trust. Well done guys, keep it up, glory to god, amen!

[fedelmid]

Peten6000, many people who have worked for SSGCT would not agree that the charity is trying to do some good. The Church is not a building, it is the people. The way SSGCT has treated the church is not Christian, just ask the number of staff who have had to take legal advice concerning their mistreatment and were then removed from their jobs.

[sammybkr73]

It is very apparent that the majority of you bloggers are blind to the urgent need for someone to "rescue" our churches. And who cares if it's an American -- other than it's a shame on us for not having the strength to do it ourselves. How can you fail even to acknowledge the many churches that are being closed or converted for commercial use? ...

[sammybkr73]

... What I cannot understand is the obvious hatred for someone who is trying to do charitable work. Are many neglecting to see the good in preserving historical and religious sites because of envy or loathing for a few men? Will someone explain with facts, please how the mission of this charity is so wrong?

[spckeasy]

Not enough space for all the facts. You obviously do not know the history of SSG and SPCK. Neither do you appreciate how the Orthodox Church works in Britain.Those posting comments do not envey a few men. Envy is a deadly sin! There is nothing wrong with preserving churches - how you go about doing so must be questioned. Read the comments of Fr Gregory - get the details from a previous post and then listen to the BBC Radio 4 interview. Maybe you will change your mind.

[JPapa20]

Well done SSGT I'm glad to see an organisation take a strong, steadfast motion to save the magnificent churches that are in England.

[fedelmid]

Its so nice to see that the Antiocian Church in England is now classified as inaccurate by SSGCT. That rather from experience ex-employees are talking from a mistaken self motivated position attacking something that is down. Other than attacking people, and making dodgy videos, will SSGCT actually talk with Christian Marketplace and others to clarify why so many people walked out and why they are using the SPCK logo and website?

[ultraothordox]

I would like to warn people who might wish to donate money to SSG that they are regarded in the Orthodox Church as a fringe movement. If you don't believe me contact Fr Gregory Hallam, the webmaster of The Antiochian Orthodox Deanery in the UK and Ireland.

[SSGCT]

Father Gregory would have no reason to regard SSG as a "movement;" it is nothing so grand. Rather it is a simple charity trying to make a difference.

It would seem that any Orthodox person who takes his or her faith seriously is "fringe" -- especially in a society where significantly less than 10% of the people ever bother going to church.

[SSGCT]

Surely you do not consider Metropolitan Archbishop Joseph, founding trustee of SSG, part of a "fringe movement"! Surely Father Gregory does not! Say it isn't so! (NB - Metropolitan Joseph is the one conducting the August 2007 Consecration in the video.)

[ultraothordox]

I know they might be your enemies but then one has to ask why Father Gregory posted a message on Metacatholic on Nov 7 07 at 12:47am? Maybe you should read what he has to say. I'm posting these comments only because I believe that we should be careful about who we support.

[1iz]

Time was when sock-puppets at least bothered to try and vary their posting structure, style and use of language. It's the slide into laziness that upsets me most you know; there's no appreciation of craft these days ;-)

[SSGCT]

Pardon me, but who's a "sock puppet"? Is that just anyone who agrees with someone you don't agree with?

[awestonb]

What a great missionary undertaking. That some are unhappy is unfortunate. The bigger picture is that SSG is using this business to fulfill a worthy mission. Britain has some beautiful churches. I am glad that SSG has taken the on this worthy cause in order to keep these buildings from dilapidating, or worse. Better yet, they are now being used to proclaim the Glory of Jesus Christ. May God bless your missionary undertaking. Glory be to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever!

[TucsonAZRon]

I agree with you.

[ultraothordox]

Using this business! Have you read about that bit in the Bible where Jesus cleared the temple? Or God turning up his nose at burnt offerings?

[fedelmid]

At the expense of honesty and caring for their felloow believers.

[TucsonAZRon]

Thank You to SSG for saving numerous magnificent church buildings, saving an old christian book store from numerous branch closings, and rejuvenating spiritual life in a number of communities. Since the leadership is human, I imagine they will not manage this task perfectly, but the work done during the last year is truly remarkable. Naysayers to the contrary, thanks be to God for SSG leadership and their great job of promoting Christianity thus far in this truly remarkable and daunting task.

[fedelmid]

One of the churches they hope to save is still a consecrated church. Neither the people who work there or the Church of England knew about it was a radio interview with Mark Brewer being posted on the web. As to SSGCT going a great job - two shops walked out. Over 110 staff have left, at least three with nervous breakdowns because of how they have been treated. This is what SSGCT will not tell you.

[warriort38]

Whoever you are, I suppose you must be either a disgruntled former employee or a friend of one. It is nice to know you have an opinion; however, I am truly interested to know how many people that have seen this video understand the impact of saving a Church or a business with 150 employees and their families having a second chance to keep their jobs. Those that left I am sure did so mostly because they did not like being managed in a business like way. (Or they felt a call to a new endeavor!)

[warriort38]

All businesses, charities, Churches (and even families) must pay their bills and working to make the ends meet is something that must be accomplished.

No matter how much I would like to purchase things and do things I feel I deserve, I still must be able to afford them. Why is this so difficult to understand?

[warriort38]

If the C of E feels it must dispose of Churches due to financing, and there is an organization, like Saint Stephen the Great Trust, then I am gratified to know that people like the staff of the former SPCK Bookshops and the founders of this Trust are willing to work and struggle to accomplish this. I just feel it sad to read these comments posted here being made is a most inappropriate and even malicious way about views of how the bookshops are being run.

[fedelmid]

As to things being run in a business like manner, if suppliers are to be believed they have not been paid, some since SSG took over. Certain publishers who have questioned the companies behaviour have had their stock banned. People who went to ACAS were removed. Is this either a Christian or business like manner? Even the Antiochian Orthodox Church in the UK disagrees with SSG's account concerning Poole, or are they inaccurate and factless as well?

[SSGCT]

Yes. They are inaccurate.

[rhysjj]

In what way are they inaccurate, specifically?

[SSGCT]

The church in Poole is a thriving parish. People are receiving Holy Baptism and Holy Chrismation. People are being joined in Holy Matrimony through the Sacrament of Orthodox Marriage. All of these and many more miracles have been occuring since the consecration of the church to Saint Stephen the Great by His Eminence Metropolitan Joseph on August 12, 2007.

As the Holy Apostle said, "Come and see [for yourself]!"

[fedelmid]

Having just been to the church's wbsite nothing seems to have happened since August. I will try and get down and will resord what is going on an post it on youtube for everyone to see.

[fedelmid]

I see I have been marked down for my previous post. Surely not for a spelling mistake. My contacts in the Poole area tell me that on Staurdays and Sundays the building appears abandoned, even during advertised service times. So much for a thriving congregation where miracles are happening.

[spckeasy]

If people have not understood the impact of saving a church, your video was not a success.

I'm a theological student who supports Christian bookshops. I was desperate for a book but your shop could not get it for me because you had not paid your bills.

You should be dealing with the missionaries in your shops in a Christ-like manner rather than "in a business like way."

Beware of trying to do the Lord's work by means of mammon and the law. Your zeal makes you look ruthless.

[SSGCT]

It can be very tempting to "jump on a bandwagon" and kick someone (or something) who is down. It is much harder to say a kind word or at least refrain from speaking critically and negatively. It is also easy to jump to conclusions based on "loose" comments of others - even members of staff. Staff are capable of being mistaken or speaking from an agenda of their own.

[ultraothordox]

I wasn't jumping on a bandwagon. I just wanted a book because I had an essay to hand in. I went into the bookshop because I knew they could get my book "pronto". The lady told me she couldn't get the book from Marsden and she was really apologetic. It doesn't take rocket science to know that if a shop can't get something for you it is because the bills have not been paid.Your video was sent to me by the Anglican Forum in Durham. I would not have known about you otherwise.

[fedelmid]

As are the bosses who are either unable or unwilling to admit their mistakes.

[fedelmid]

Why do you think that I'm a disgruntled ex-employee? May be I'm a jealous rival? Or is the letter on Dave's site unfactual as well? What are you afraid of? As two shops (including replacement staff) have walked out, three people left with health issues and in total over 100 staff have left you have not done a good job of helping people keep their jobs. And what about the unpaid publishers? Don't the deserve to keep their jobs Mr B?

[fedelmid]

Has my previous post been marked negative for telling the truth?

[warriort38]

Do something to prove you are worthy of making the comments that are designed to only hurt and defame. Or maybe look for the good being done. Take time to thank the wonderful staff that wants to work, keep their shops open and help save and preserve a Christian part of the heritage of the great country that SSG presently serves.

[fedelmid]

Why are my comments designed to hurt and defame Mr P B? I am in touch with staff in shops and know what they are feeling. They are doing a great job, hindered by SSGCT.

[metamm]

I tried to do that - thank the wonderful staff that wanted to work, keep their shop open and preserve a part of the heritage etc etc - but unfortunately it was a black tuesday and just that morning they had all had their employment terminated, with immediate effect, by Mr M Brewer by email.

[SSGCT]

That's absurd: 110 people walked out? How then is it possible that all 23 shops are still open, still selling books, gifts and church requisites, and still have 130 employees? You're just ill-informed or worse.

[fedelmid]

I did not say walked out - I said left. Here SSGCT goes again misqutoing people for their own ends. 21 managers. All the staff at York and Exeter, the replacement staff at Exeter. Cardiff, Truro, Chichester, Sailsbury have lost multiple staff. It's time for the truth to out.

[fedelmid]

Please quote accuratly or not at all please SSGCT (MR B?) as I said left not walked out. Not all 23 shops are still open under SSGCT as one has been sold. As for 130 employees How does this work out when some shops are down to one part timer?

[metamm]

They are not all open - at least five are closed - the sack having been terminated by email, how very christian.

Many of them prior to this were running with shoestring staff levels, one person per shop or some such.

[richiedaw]

great truly

[ChaRleyTroniC]

We do not need more denominational bookshops. Wesley Owen etc. do a very good job of selling books of one viewpoint.

The wonder of the SPCKs was that they were non-denominational. SPCK had the challenging tradition of continually questioning people's beliefs, rather than the glib certainties of this video.

A denominational "SPCK" is pointless. It might be better to have none and leave space for someone else to take on the mantle of uncomfortable Christianity.

[onlinealiasuk]

Non-Denominational you say SPCK was so non denominational thats why the COfE ran its Pention Sceam?

you talk about Challenging Christianity? you sound like you are unwilling to be challenged by anything other than the so called 'Challenging' Christianity you are ussed to.

SPCK had long since forgoten about the P for promotion in its name

[ChaRleyTroniC]

"you sound like you are unwilling to be challenged by anything other than the so called 'Challenging' Christianity you are ussed to."

Yes, gratuitous insults are always a good substitute for debate. Well done.

Another SSG sock-puppet, I presume.

[onlinealiasuk]

if debate was what you were going for calling me a'sockpuppet'doesntr realy count as a constuctive basis to build your argument upon. what i was doing was pointing out your factual errors. SPCK was not as muti denominatianal as those who look back with rosetinted glassers clame. It was clearly linkded to the CofE and the'mantle of uncomfortable Christianity'is just as much a sigle opion point of vue as a evelgelical using the phrase'Bible beleveing Christianty'

[mattwardman]

Why is this video (posted 29/11) using SPCK Trademarks after permission to use them was withdrawn (a I understand it) some time ago?

Perhaps a re-editing is in order?

[SSGCT]

You're just mis-informed!

[rhysjj]

May I ask - in what way, specifically, is the previous poster misinformed?

[Brewster121511]

This is the most amazing thing I have seen in a long time. Just when I thought the churches were doomed here it is good to see some being revitalized!

[marybarry579]

I don't know what yall are talking about. I thought it was amazing.

[NeilDenham]

Well in my years worth of contact with SSG through the shops it certainly put me off "orthodox" christianity, if that is the way christians show love to one another I want no part of it.

[SSGCT]

What is it that "put you off 'Orthodox' Christianity?"

Are you aware that there is not one single individual employed by SSG who is Orthodox? Not even one - not at any former SPCK shop. Not any manager. Not any area manager.

[NeilDenham]

And not one will become "Orthodox" the way the shops are being run.

I don't need to argue on here, the amount of resignations from the board and the shops speaks louder than any words that I can type.

[SSGCT]

So if you work at a place where all the employees, management and board are members of the Church of England and you disapprove of the way it's run, will that "put you off" their religion? Will that cause you to say you "want no part of it"? By the way, EVERYONE at SSG was/is CofE, Catholic or Protestant.

[NeilDenham]

Yes, if SPCK had been badly run it would put me off the Church of England, and in fact the way the transfer of the shops has happened has tainted my view of the Church a bit.

Shows how much you knew about the staff at the shops, I am not CofE, Catholic or protestant, nor were at least 2 other members of staff at our shop, or at least 3 other people formally of other shops. I expect you are glad to be rid of us unbelievers though.

[SSGCT]

Well at least you identified yourself, although I am sad that you're an unbeliever.

You started off referring to all your years (plural), but it shows how little you know about SSG: it's only been involved in the bookshops for ONE year.

[ultraothordox]

Well I was working as a casual and I'm Orthodox. I met you but you didn't ask and I didn't volunteer the information because I don't trust the lunatic fringe. I left when you took over! Just could not bear the humiliation.

[SSGCT]

What a pity that SSG "lost" you!  Especially over humility.

[edolhausen]

It's great to see someone so passionate about the Christian state of our nation. I applaud their efforts.

[stephd1965]

I'm guessing you're the same edolhausen who is the supply chain manager for St Andrews Bookshops who are, apparently, handling SSG's stock orders and earning a nice fee in the process. no bias then?

If i were you i'd be aplauding them too.

[SSGCT]

I'm guessing you're the same person who would say an employee (or ex-employee) who makes NEGATIVE comments has "no bias then?" Just who would you listen to?

[fedelmid]

It is not that ex-employees have no bias. But their new bosses have proactively tried to gag them. And when they do speak out, like on Dave Walker's site, they are attacked.

[belacqua1]

We don't need another version of American fundamentalism in the North East, or anywhere else, thank you. I am a Christian who deplores the vandalism SSG has inflicted on SPCK bookshops.

Yes, we're all searching for spiritual answers and a sesne of hope: all I find in SSG is bigotry, narrowness - and, of course, a desire to get hold of our money. God save us from such nonsense. Ask why the managers of most of those Christian bookshops have resigned since the disaster that is SSG came along.

[SSGCT]

The only thing that can be said about SSG's treatment of the people that work for it is that SSG saved the 2 dozen bookshops of the SPCK from closure and saved the jobs of the men and women who worked at them. If some of those people were unhappy with the "new management," at least they had the CHOICE to leave of their own accord, rather than as part of a massive redundancy.

[belacqua1]

This is very far from the "only thing" that can be said. SSG deceived the Church of England about its intentions; many of the employees you claim to have "saved" now feel tarnished by the narrow and bullying methods of SSG. The new management has only revealed its full ugliness gradually. I have shopped at SPCK for 30 years and will not spend a penny there again.

[SSGCT]

You obviously have a great deal of anger and it is good for you to rid yourself of it in any way possible. You are quite incorrect in saying SSG "deceived" anyone - much less the CofE. SSG has never had any dealings whatsoever with the CofE. Nor has it been anything less than transparent about its intentions: to spread God's love through Christian bookselling and saving churches.

[belacqua1]

I am only as angry as you are patronising. The deceptive gloss of your video is at odds with the bullied and demoralised staff in the shops you 'acquired'. No dealings with CofE? The Bishop of Gloucester was a trustee of SSG until his recent resignation, due to what he politely calls 'conflict of interest'. It is as well that SSG's website is currently down for 'maintenance', otherwise we could all see that what you call the desire to 'spread God's love' is no more than blinkered sectarianism.

[SSGCT]

It is pretty strained logic to say that a CofE trustee equates to "dealings" with or "deceiving" the Church of England. It is equally illogical to impute wrongdoing to SSG when a trustee steps down due to HIS conflict of interest. Apparently, you are only interested in heaping unwarranted castigation on SSG based on an understanding of "facts" that is simply incorrect.

[belacqua1]

Nobody needs to listen to me or to SSG.

(i) type in "Dave Walker" + SPCK to an Internet search engine. Follow an array of discussion on the subject and make up your own mind

(ii) when it works again, visit the SSG website. By their fruits, you shall know them.

[SSGCT]

That's kind of what I figured: you are just re-hashing the old "news" from Dave's blog. Trouble is, the stuff on that blog is grossly inaccurate, exaggerated and completely lacking in factual basis. Citing to that certainly lends no credibility to your assertions about SSG having "deceived" the CofE or anyone else! As for fruits: how about the fact 23 shops are still trading but 14 months ago, they were set to be closed? Why are you intent on ignoring that?

[rhysjj]

SSGCT said:

"the stuff on that blog is grossly inaccurate, exaggerated and completely lacking in factual basis."

An intriguing comment, indeed. Out of interest, to which particular bits of the stuff are you referring?

[SSGCT]

As Dave himself said: "I'm having to edit or not post a reasonable number of SPCK / SSG related comments. . . The problem is that some comments could be straying into legally dubious areas or they contain allegations that I can't substantiate. In neither case can I afford to take a risk . . .."

[mattwardman]

>As Dave himself said: The problem is that some comments could be straying into legally dubious areas or they contain allegations that I can't substantiate. In neither case can I afford to take a risk . . .."

That bears no relation to whether or not the comments are accurate. Dave Walker's concern was that they were actionable, and that under the weird UK libel laws he can be held responsible for comments on his site.

So ... to which particular bits of the stuff are you referring?

[rhysjj]

The problem with using that quote of Dave Walker's to prove the point you're trying to make is that it actually proves exactly the opposite. Dave, according to that quote, deliberately doesn't post those comments or sections of comments which he feels to be inaccurate or which are lacking in factual basis. As Matt Wardman has just explained, he's probably only too well aware of UK libel laws as they pertain to his site.

So... to which particular bits of the stuff are you referring?

[fedelmid]

Why is Dave Walker's blog grossly inaccurate, exagerated and lacking in factual basis when many of the posters are actually people who have resigned from your shops? Or are you trying to blacken their names on a public forum?

[fedelmid]

Actually SSGCT many of the shops had plans for buyouts. But that has not been made public. Very few if any of the shops would actually have closed.

[ColonelHenryBlake]

We do not want - or need - this kind of spiritual bigotry in the North East. The only people who will benefit from the SSG bulldozing into Gateshead will be the fascists and crypto-fascists who stir up political trouble in the name, but not the spirit, of free speech.

We've seen through the SPCK saga how the SSG treats the people who work for it. Let's hope some journalist (local or national) has the guts to do this story justice.

[SSGCT]

If saving a church equals "bulldozing" it, we truly are living in the age of Orwell's 1984.

It is beyond comprehension that engaging in Christian mission can be called "Spiritual bigotry," "fascism" and "crypto-facism" -- even in these politically correct times.

[ColonelHenryBlake]

I apologise if my language was insensitive. I meant what I said, as a man who believes that he too knows the Love of God.

Love will not break a bruised reed. If Christianity in Britain is bruised, why do you belittle it? Maybe you are not belittling it. Maybe you are saving it. But it really doesn't seem that way.

America has been traumatised. We understand that. But rolling a bulldozer over other cultures - how is that going to help anyone?

[SSGCT]

Thank you for your apology and please accept my own if I have "belittled" or "bruised." I would be interested to know specifically how English culture is being bulldozed by the effort to save redundant churches and put them back into use for Christian worship.

[ColonelHenryBlake]

I think what many of us in the UK are realising is that the truth of Christianity doesn't reside in our buildings or programmes - or even much treasured doctrines like the Nicene Creed. Love is about the humility and risk of leaving those trappings behind if they baffle or exclude.

Various Far Right organisations are active in the North East. They talk up the Islamisation of the UK for their own purposes. They have hijacked the language of 'free speech'. Theirs is the way of fear, not love.

[SSGCT]

Church BUILDINGS were built as sacred spaces and are hugely symbolic of the Christian faith - closed or open.

I agree that fear tactics and attacks on others is not what Christian love is all about. Christ's love equate in any way, shape or form with putting others down, whatever they are or whoever they are.

[ColonelHenryBlake]

Church buildings were also built ON sacred spaces - but that didn't seem to bother the church builders. Like everything under the sun, there is a time and a place for physical buildings.

Blaise Pascale wrote, "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." I know that's a danger for me as well as for you, so it's good we bless each other by praying that each of us gains some measure of understanding of the love that Christ has shown the other.

[fedelmid]

It is being bulldozed by an American organisation not listening to its employees.

[tressofgreen]

Ain't that the truth.

As someone who knows EXACTLY what's been happening in the shops formerly SPCK, I'm sickened to even consider myself part of the same religion as this man.

The "dangerous growth of Islam"- how dare you slate another persons religion?! I wouldn't be surprised if people were turning their back on the Christian faith because of people like Phil Brewer tainting it.

Don't believe this video- it's a pile of bull. Fedelmid is speaking absolute truth.

[tressofgreen]

Hold on a minute. I'm not sure who it was who slated Islam. So that comment was to whoever said it.

[fedelmid]

Dear Tessofgreen - thank you so much for your supportive comment.

Hopefully as people are speaking the truth about what has been happening the world will wake up.

[thegatesofvienna]

Glad that St Stephen the Great Trust is fighting back against the Islamisation of Britain! Keep up the good work.

[HolyEmpireofBarton]

Bother, I thought it hadn't posted, so I wrote a new one. Sorry about that.

[HolyEmpireofBarton]

You might want to talk to someone working for the SPCK, if there's any of them left, first... SSG has really made a complete hash of managing them.

Also, in addition to their subtle opposition to Islam, they are also not keen on other Christian denominations, or their literature.

No space to get into it here, but check out CartoonChurch dot com slash blog, Dave Walker's been following their hideous mishandling of the bookshops

[warriort38]

And the wonderful folks at the former SPCK Bookshops, now renamed that I have met are some of the most dedicated and marvelous people around.

Regarding your comment on Islam, I would assume that you are not a Christian. My Bible says that there is one pathway to the Father, and that is through the one and Holy Son, Jesus!!

[HolyEmpireofBarton]

Actually, I'm Christian too, and my Bible says the same thing :)

The point I was rather badly trying to make was that SSG are very strictly Orthodox, and are pushing this particular denomination in the once quite broad-ranged SPCK. Whether they are right to do so, and Orthodoxy is the only true 'flavour' of Christianity is a discussion beyond the scope of a YouTube comments board though!

God Bless

[warriort38]

Thanks so much for this incredible work. You can definately count on my support.

[HolyEmpireofBarton]

You might want to talk with the staff of your nearest SPCK bookshop and find out a little more about them first. Their noble intent is somewhat marred by their handling of their vaunted bookshops.

There's not space to go into it all here, but check out the Cartoon Church blog by Dave Walker, he's been following the ongoing saga of how SSG have been hideously mis-managing the SPCK shops.

[warriort38]

All I know is if not for SSG, there would have been no SPCK bookshops.  Thank goodness some one had the guts to manage the incredible mess the folks of SPCK Trust had created with the mismanagement of the bookshops of the last few years.