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70% of Scots are happy to remain part of the Union - Salmonds Tartan Tory/SNP can rant every day if he wants, he can't fool the millions that are oposed to Independence.
I support keeping God save the Queen. it should only be changed if we do away with the monarchy. If we did then id pick I vow to thee my country for Englands anthem or Land of hope and glory for a UK anthem if the union wasnt broken up.
i personnally like jerusalem? i think when the union breaks uo there will be great opportunity's for real changes in england, scotland, wales and northern ireland! i don't think there is anything to fear! just probably the people at the bottom getting more control of the top!
Whilst i like the song Jerusalem i just dont think its good enough for a national anthem for England.
Land of hope and glory and I vow to thee my country have some relevance. It is possible to argue Britain is the mother of the free and i vow to thee is very patriotic.
Trouble is the anthem has to be played at good and bad times. So that rules out Rule Britannia, imagine having to sing that at the funerals.
I agree if there is a break up of the union there will be big changes.
I agree. Scottish independence, the break up of the moribund "union" and the end of the hopeless Windsor Woman would be of benefit to Scots and the English. I once saw the President of Slovakia meeting the President of Austria, and I thought "a hundred years ago, they were both in the Hapsburg Empire, and now they are free, flourishing and friendly". That's what it will be like in Britain, when the (non-executive) Presidents of Scotland and England meet in the future.
How long will it take for relations between England and Scotland to improve. If there is economic damage to both England and Scotland because of the break up of the union there is going to be alot of anger.
All i can say is expect to see Scottish businesses lose alot of their contracts and customers the next day :)
so a business making money? would stop a contract? and what if the relations between england and scotland get better after a break up? don't fear change? business leaders love change! it creates opportunity for investment!your looking through this with those romantic empire sunglasses! take them off neo? and see the real world! it's not all doom and gloom!
Im looking at this as a BRITISH citizen and i see separatists trying to destroy my country, it has nothing to do with empires.
Businesses and markets hate uncertainty and the unknown. Breaking up a western country like Britain in the 21st century will be the first of its kind. It could have huge implications as we will be going into uncharted waters.
I fear such unknown change, and when it comes to the vote there are going to be alot of Scottish families unwilling to risk their futures too
Hmm the last time i checked it was HBOS a Scottish bank which is the one in crisis right now and possibly going to be bought by an English one to prevent a huge economic crisis throughout the United Kingdom. :)
simply because speculators circulated rumours around the markets, to make a bob or two! hbos is a sound back but has been forced to be pro active because the finacial regulator did not act to stop the speculation! and as for banks being anything other than a building that contains several cold hearted greedy wankers! they'll pay their taxs to whoever offers them the best deal!
Im not talking about Scottish companies stopping contracts in England i am talking about the English government stopping contracts with Scottish companies.
Scottish transport companies FIRST and Stagecoach which have a huge share of the UK transport business which depends on government approvals, will certainly face troubles
We are in an economic crisis already, if things continue till the referendum do u think splitting up a country which will cost billions will help Scotland or England?
and why would you in a free european market cancel a contract that was the best deal on the table? to give it to a french or german supplier? or will everything in england be supplied by english based companies? it's a global market wether we agree with it or not? independence for scotland and england gives both a stronger voice on their own issues! westminster serves no one in the british isles in the 21st century economy!
Ofcourse as part of the EU we must comply with competition rules if Scotland is permitted to remain or rejoin the European Union. However our government can decide who it wants contracts and subsidies to go to. France and Germany certainly look after self interest and protect their own monopolies.
England and Scotland as single smaller nations will have a smaller and weaker voice. That is why businesses merge so they have more power and wealth, dividing companies up weakens them.
at least we agree britian is nothing more than a business! a group of smaller nations together eg denmark, finland, sweden, iceland, holland, eire, belgium & scotland. would have a strong voice for smaller nations and a combined strength! SNP plan to connect scottish oil & electricity direct to mainland europe with a joint venture with norway across the north sea and through denmark and europe! no need for englands assistance here? but a good example of an independent scotland in action!
Sorry but you do not have all the same shared interests just because you are "small nations". I used business as an example, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a country that has a huge role on the economic and political world stage.
I hate to tell you this but England already gets some of its electricity from France, funny enough the source or purchaser of energy isnt on peoples minds when deciding the future of the United Kingdom
scotland has more incommon with these size nation! if england wants to waste her citizens money, strutting around the globe, playing the big player? fine! to me a waste of time and money! i don't see sweden, denmark or finland having to do that to improve their lot! scottish families like english families are no different to each other! we want our elected representatives to spend our money on services! not how big my penis is!
Yes tartan you see some countries play an important role on the world stage to bring about progress. Other countries sit back and do nothing even during world wars when people are being slaughtered on their door step.
All of those small european countries spend so little on their military budget because they know NATO has always been prepared to protect western Europe. Ofcourse some countries contribute to NATO and others sadly dont.
Would u of wanted a Scotland in ww2 to do nothing?
agree! that's why the yanks had to come and save us! the superpowers are the ones that do that! we ain't no longer a superpower! hav'nt been for a long, long time! and unless your suggesting we invade germany or the like! and build our empire again!
The Yanks just didnt come along as save us, lets not forget we were one of the major 3 allied powers which did win the war. Ofcourse Britain is no longer a world super power, but we still can play a major role on the world stage as a leading economy and military force of Europe.
If all countries too a neutral position whcih you seem to seek for Scotland then this continent would be in a very dangerous position. NATO is an important defensive alliance, not all SNP supporters are against it
I agree the status quo must be addressed. However the UK is moving towards a federal system where the states have huge rights like in the United States on taxes etc but the majority still do not support breaking up this United Kingdom.
If the people of Scotland vote against breaking up the United Kingdom the SNP has no plan to listen to their opinion or respect it.. they will simply continue to push their separatist policies.
Unlike the British government who if it does lose the vote on the union will respect Scotlands wishes and you will have your independent country.
However Britain or England will not be pushed around in settlement debates. Scotland needs the United Kingdoms acceptance to become an independent country
Im sorry but everything will not just be decided by a legal body of international experts.
If the UK is to break up then you can be sure England will not accept an unfair settlement. The United Kingdom government holds all the cards if people of Scotland do want the union to break up. Scotland can either accept the reasonable settlement or face many years of disputes on this issue
The SNP should make it clear what THEY think is fair and what they are aiming for, so Scotland knows the plan
it won't be the united kingdom goverment? it will be an english, welsh & northern irish goverment! scotland will settle for a fair settelment! it will not be in a london goverments interest to do anything else! we still hold the energy card! and london can not afford that to be switched off! not in the 21st century can they afford to make enemy's of countries with access to cheap energy supplies! the only thing scotland will demand, is, a fair settelment! nothing more!
I fully accept Scotland should get a fair deal but im sure we have very different opinions on what is a fair deal. That is why the SNP should state what THEY consider fair before people are asked to vote on breaking up this country.. so people know what to expect.
As for the UK government, if Scotland votes to leave the union which i still seriously doubt would happen then the rest of the UK will probably have to have a vote on breaking up the union aswell.
If the people through out the UK do vote to break up the union then yes England, Wales, NI and Scotland will have to come to an agreement on the dividing up of assets.
But if England, Wales and NI decide they want to remain part of the United Kingdom then obviously the UK government will be responsible for agreeing the terms of Scotlands withdrawl from our United Kingdom.
If the rest of the UK remains it will make life alot more complicated for a future Scotland.
oh well that will save a fortune! we don't need a referendum the unionists have decided they know the answer! sometimes with nationlism, the heart rules the head! sometimes with unionists the head rules the heart! but sometimes! the heart and head work as one! and on a daily basis in scotland, the independence argument is being won! door by door and ex lifelong labour voter to ex lifelong labour voter! it's not the unionist we have to convince? it's the don't knows! 33% of them? we need just 16%
I fully support holding the referendum, this question must be answered once and for all to atleast damage the separatist movement. Ofcourse theres a slight double standard because if the union loses the vote we will accept it and Scotland will become a separate country one day. If the Separatists lose many say the struggle will go on.
Polls can be misleading, alot easier to say yes to indepenence for a poll than when they know the vote will totally change scotland and their families future.
At the moment the unionist parties continue to fight with each other, but that wont be the case once a referendum is actually called. To Scottish unionists a break up of the union is as unthinkable to them as Scotland breaking up into its different regions is probably to you.
Im confident that when the union war machine switches on the vote will go our way, the problem in my view is the majority. To do serious damage to the separatist movement we need a large majority of the vote which is hard.
your dreaming! scare tactics won't work on this referendum! 33% are convinced now and growing! i think get 10% of the don't knows just to vote on the day, will carry the day! the scottish people can not stomach a tory goverment! labour by 2010 will be broken and broke! the liberals will do what liberals do, they'll want a third option on the paper! again game set and match to independence! simply, SNP just have to get their vote out on the day! it's that plain and simple! 10% COVERTED FOR 2010?
Lmao you are dreaming if you think its going to be that simple. Making sure people understand the full implications of what they are voting for is not scare tactics. People should be well informed about the deicsion they are going to be making.
I agree in 2010 we will probably have a conservative government and that will make things harder, but i believe the vote will still be won. The sooner Labour goes and kicks out brown the sooner they can regroup and stop the endless loss of seats.
new labour won the 2007 election with just 20% of electorate! if you meet 10 people in the street 3 will agree with your opinion, 3 will disagree and four will be influenced by their various states of social compliance! SNP DON'T HAVE TO CONVINCE UNIONIST! they have to convince the floating voter! i agree there will be a big effort from unionists! but it's only going to be the same old, same old! THE SKY IS FALLING! nothing new and optimistic! GIVE AN OPTIMISTIC QOUTE TO STAYING IN THE UNION?
Scotland as part of the union is helping to bring freedom and democracy to 50 million people. An indendepent Scotland led by the SNP would not be prepared to step in and help others in their struggle.
Scotland is part of the United Kingdom which is one of the leading world economic powers and has alot of influence.
Scotland and England have been united for 300 years and in that time we have seen far more progress than the previous centuries
Get over yourself. Let us not forget Tony Bliar was PART Scottish and was even born in Scotland. The one man in the labour party who could of led a rebellion in the labour party and stopped the war before it started was Gordon Brown (A Scot)
Now British troops are in Iraq under a United Nations mandate at the request of the democratically elected Iraqi government. They have been since 2004. The invasion may of been the wrong thing to do but atleast a dictator has been removed.
Oh and just because one report suggests 100,000s of Iraqis have died in the conflict doesnt mean its true. The United Nations, Iraqi government and Coalition all dispute such high estimates, a single figure and source which all the anti war jump on and use EVERY time they talk about Iraq.
One good thing about Salmond not having the guts to call a referendum before the 2010 election is all British troops will be out of Iraq by the time of the vote.. So the iraq war cry wont impact as much.
just in time for record umemployment created by greedy bankers and mistyeyed unionists! the empire is long gone! wake up and embrace the future britishwatcher, an independent and flourishing scotland! controled 100% from scotland!
Lmao tartantess, Do you think the people of Scotland are stupid enough to vote to form a new country in an economic crisis? The troubles we face at the moment are a reason for not risking Scotlands entire future by breaking up the union.
I also notice two major high street banks that operate throughout the UK which have been suffering alot have been the Royal Bank of Scotland and the Halifax Bank of Scotland.. Connection which both have their headquatres in Scotland.
mistyeyed unionist contradictions, if your a unionist? surley darlings british? you can't just slot in nationallity to fit your argument? as for "running" the economy? tory policy (conservative & new labour)for the last 30 years has delivered the current mess? as for the scottish people! the good thing is they ain't that stupid! the bbc is running a year long education programme on scottish history 30th november to october 2009! just before the 2010 referendum! education, education, education
Darling and Brown are British which is why i have no problem with them running Britain, as we maintain our English / Scottish / Welsh and Irish identities brown is Scottish and Darling was elected in a Scottish constituency.
Policies over the past 30 years have caused some damage but the person in power for 10 years has been brown, who could of reduced borrowing, introduced more regulation of the markets etc.
I know the Scottish people are not that stupid, thats why they will vote NO =)
Oh and let us not forget this countries economy has been run by a SCOTTISH chancellor, born bred and ELECTED in Scotland for 10 years. In the past year when the crisis has really begun, we have had a Scottish Prime Minister and a chancellor elected by people in Scotland.
good point re the banks, if we had been independent, we could have delt with this without the dithering duo of broon & darling!our corporate tax & more business friendly independent enviorment! would have resulted in the world seeing scottish banking as a safe option! and their shares would have went upwards! instead being part of the london union has resulted in the mess we have, when the unionist pigs have their snouts in the troff! the union is on life support! what flowers would you like!
Im sorry Tartaness but its Scotlands union with England over the past 300 years which has allowed those Scottish banks to grow and large and rich as they are today.
When Scotland joined in the union with England its economy was in chaos.. Scotlands done very well from this union.
the union stabalised scotland from1707 -1760 but after that? we can only guess? who's to say scotland would not have been stronger? we know for sure if we had been independent from 1970 - present we would have been a much more wealthy country! therefore more stable in the current crisis! there's nothing wrong with economic union!selling your country to the highest bidder is wrong without a democratic approval of the populace! how can anyone support the british union & not the european union?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Well im very glad you admit atleast 50 years of progress under the union, thats further than most separatists go who attempt to erase 300 years of history.
We could play the what if game all night long, If Scotland wasnt part of the United Kingdom then a key part of labour (Brown, bliar etc) wouldnt of been involved in politics of England and the economic crisis we face today might not be happening and the oil prices might not of risen so much
Lets say Scotland got independence in the 60s. Would an indepednent Scotland of joined the EU like Ireland, or stayed out of it like Norway? the SNP quote those two countries as examples for an independent scotland all the time.
In a few years time we will hear the democratic view of the people of Scotland.. U and the SNP campaign for the vote, i hope you are prepared for the result and respect it
I agree it is stupid to be in favour of the United Kingdom and not see the benefits of the EU
i'll except any democratic decision! regardless of the result! i think the independence argument is gaining ground! people are seeing past the flag waving from both sides, and starting to realise, it's just about controlling your own money & the bodies that spend it! not william wallace or the orange lodge, and other mistyeyed versions of independence! just simple fiscal control from our own established establishment! why would you give your dodgy neighbour your wages to look after??
Englands dodgy neighbour is France so certainly not :) However since 1707 we have been a single united country of Great Britain, despite maintaining our independent identities of English and Scottish.
You could go back in time in Scotland aswell and see the break up of the different regions (the highlands etc) Both England and Scotland came about through unification of counties or regions, we then both united to form a country that went on to be one of the greatest in history. GREAT Britain
I agree with you the debate shouldnt be centered around iconoic figures or flag waving from either side. This is a very serious issue which will impact on everyone int he UK alot and people should think carefully about their vote
The debate should be on the issues about if Scotland really would be better off as a single country and how much independence would actually cost
There is a need for further devolution to allow Scotland to raise / lower certain taxes as US States can do but thats all
60% of the voters in the Scottish parliament elections in 2007 voted for parties which support the union. Labour, Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives.
The SNP won only 1 more seat than labour which allowed them to form their minority administration. In the recent Glasgow East election again most people that voted, voted for parties that SUPPORT the union
Im sorry but most who want an independent Scotland are more likely to want to see the SNP get into power than vote for a union party
so every liberal will vote no? every coservative will vote no? every labour voter will vote no? we know every snp supporter will vote yes! so the only guaranteed number so far is? 33% for independence! and we hav'nt even advertised our argument yet! bring it on!! just another 17.5% to get!
I never said that every single voter for those parties will vote against independence, i said MOST who want independence were more likely to vote for the SNP than a unionist party
It also works both ways. You do not know for sure that every single person who voted for the SNP wants independence. In 2007 people were angry with labour, just as they were throughout the UK. In Scotland the lib dems were in bed with labour, making the SNP a valid protest vote, knowing it couldnt break up the union
Just like in the recent glasgow east election. How many voted for the SNP simply as a protest vote? How many people from the other parties who are against labour decided to vote SNP just to create more problems for Brown?
LMAO @ not advertised, the SNP have been doing stunts and started their "National conversation" over a year ago. What you havnt yet seen is the 3 unionist parties putting party politics asside and crushing those separatists which will happen
Ofcourse we also dont know if Alex Salmond and the SNP will still be as popular as they are right now. I agree they stand a better chance of winning a referendum when we dont have a Scottish Prime minister and labour in power but waiting two years could backfire on him
If the SNP and Salmond are less trusted and less popular at the time of the referendum then its likely some will be less confident in trusting salmonds empty promises on separation
historicly popular goverments get a bigger vote and majority on their second election! so the popular support will still be there! as for salmond to resign just beacause we had a democratic vote and lost? don't see the logic in that one! the scottish identity & it's future progress should involve everyone in scotland, regardless of their stance on independence! party politics holds back scottish society, our representatives should learn to represent their wards needs not their party or leaders!
The popular support might still be there but in 2 years time we all dont know for sure Salmond will still be popular, if hes not then less people will trust him.
From what you and some of ur SNP supporters say victory in the referendum is almost certain. Surely if its lost badly then Salmond will of failed in his duty. You can be sure if the union side loses there will be ALOT of resignations.
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has served the people of these islands very well in the past 300 years and i dont think you should be so confident about the future with out this union
You dont realise how important a role something plays in your life until you lose it. There are many people underestimating the huge implications of dividing up a country and the SNP has no clear evidence of what will happen
They havnt even decided what they will do about the currency
Whilst im a supporter of the European Union its a bad idea to join the Euro and unless the pound seriously collapses over a long period of time theres no chance the UK will adopt the Euro
Now an independent Scotland may want to join the euro but that are huge complications in transition considering the sterling will remain a currency when Scotland wants to change to the euro
its kind of funny you want independence and then you would go ahead and surrender full control of currency to europe
i think it's to far down the road to swim against that tide! but not to late to get something out of it! with our people representing our needs not londons!
Perhaps i didnt word it correctly. What i meant was you dont fully understand how much this union impacts on all our lives until you lose it. When that does happen it will be too late and people may not be so happy with the outcome
That is why the SNP should have clear policies and full details of how they think an independent scotland would work and what theyd expect in a settlement so people can actually make an informed decision BEFORE deciding if destroying the union is what they want
ever seen the shawshank redemption? well ! keep chipping away! keep planting the seeds, your work so far has been outstanding! but i bet you can produce even better! if we can produce somewhere between us all, one outstanding video, that hits a raw nerve with the undecided? then it might just tip the balance come st andrews day 2010!
What is it going to be Scotland? Do nothing and remain a prisoner of the Union or breakout and breathe the air of freedom, all it takes is nothing a more than a little vision, some hard work and determination.
It's gonna happen...and the Unionists are shitting themselves!
BigWoodyAllen 2 years ago 2
I can't wait to see all the BritUnionists cry when Scotland becomes independent!
Emergency739 2 years ago
"I can't wait to see all the BritUnionists cry when Scotland becomes independent! "
Yes, cry with joy.
"English resentment towards Scotland's subsidies has nearly doubled in just seven years.
Some 40 per cent of people in England believe the system which gives Scots more public funding per head is unfair.
Just 22 per cent thought so in 2003, research shows.
Scots receive £1,644 more in public spending per capita than English residents"
smoochym 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
70% of Scots are happy to remain part of the Union - Salmonds Tartan Tory/SNP can rant every day if he wants, he can't fool the millions that are oposed to Independence.
ProUnionist 3 years ago
do you want to produce the source of your facts?
tartantess 3 years ago
are you still looking for the source of your facts? or did you just make them up?
mind you unioinists and contridictions, go hand in hand!
tartantess 3 years ago
My suggestion for a suitable anthem for the Union...
SMASH IT UP! by The Damned
UncleKnapsack 3 years ago
Check it out, it's in the related videos window at the side.
UncleKnapsack 3 years ago
LOL quality spot uncle
tartantess 3 years ago
There was me thinking the unionist song would be the national anthem of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
That anthem will be God save the Queen the day before the referendum and the day after. :)
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
what do you think england would use as an anthem? i suppose they'll just keep GSTQ?
tartantess 3 years ago
I support keeping God save the Queen. it should only be changed if we do away with the monarchy. If we did then id pick I vow to thee my country for Englands anthem or Land of hope and glory for a UK anthem if the union wasnt broken up.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
i personnally like jerusalem? i think when the union breaks uo there will be great opportunity's for real changes in england, scotland, wales and northern ireland! i don't think there is anything to fear! just probably the people at the bottom getting more control of the top!
tartantess 3 years ago
Whilst i like the song Jerusalem i just dont think its good enough for a national anthem for England.
Land of hope and glory and I vow to thee my country have some relevance. It is possible to argue Britain is the mother of the free and i vow to thee is very patriotic.
Trouble is the anthem has to be played at good and bad times. So that rules out Rule Britannia, imagine having to sing that at the funerals.
I agree if there is a break up of the union there will be big changes.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
I agree. Scottish independence, the break up of the moribund "union" and the end of the hopeless Windsor Woman would be of benefit to Scots and the English. I once saw the President of Slovakia meeting the President of Austria, and I thought "a hundred years ago, they were both in the Hapsburg Empire, and now they are free, flourishing and friendly". That's what it will be like in Britain, when the (non-executive) Presidents of Scotland and England meet in the future.
RadicalWhig 3 years ago 2
How long will it take for relations between England and Scotland to improve. If there is economic damage to both England and Scotland because of the break up of the union there is going to be alot of anger.
All i can say is expect to see Scottish businesses lose alot of their contracts and customers the next day :)
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
so a business making money? would stop a contract? and what if the relations between england and scotland get better after a break up? don't fear change? business leaders love change! it creates opportunity for investment!your looking through this with those romantic empire sunglasses! take them off neo? and see the real world! it's not all doom and gloom!
tartantess 3 years ago
Im looking at this as a BRITISH citizen and i see separatists trying to destroy my country, it has nothing to do with empires.
Businesses and markets hate uncertainty and the unknown. Breaking up a western country like Britain in the 21st century will be the first of its kind. It could have huge implications as we will be going into uncharted waters.
I fear such unknown change, and when it comes to the vote there are going to be alot of Scottish families unwilling to risk their futures too
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
you mean like the current climate? where we are at the mercy of the merchant bankers of london?
tartantess 3 years ago
Hmm the last time i checked it was HBOS a Scottish bank which is the one in crisis right now and possibly going to be bought by an English one to prevent a huge economic crisis throughout the United Kingdom. :)
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
simply because speculators circulated rumours around the markets, to make a bob or two! hbos is a sound back but has been forced to be pro active because the finacial regulator did not act to stop the speculation! and as for banks being anything other than a building that contains several cold hearted greedy wankers! they'll pay their taxs to whoever offers them the best deal!
tartantess 3 years ago
Im not talking about Scottish companies stopping contracts in England i am talking about the English government stopping contracts with Scottish companies.
Scottish transport companies FIRST and Stagecoach which have a huge share of the UK transport business which depends on government approvals, will certainly face troubles
We are in an economic crisis already, if things continue till the referendum do u think splitting up a country which will cost billions will help Scotland or England?
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
and why would you in a free european market cancel a contract that was the best deal on the table? to give it to a french or german supplier? or will everything in england be supplied by english based companies? it's a global market wether we agree with it or not? independence for scotland and england gives both a stronger voice on their own issues! westminster serves no one in the british isles in the 21st century economy!
tartantess 3 years ago
Ofcourse as part of the EU we must comply with competition rules if Scotland is permitted to remain or rejoin the European Union. However our government can decide who it wants contracts and subsidies to go to. France and Germany certainly look after self interest and protect their own monopolies.
England and Scotland as single smaller nations will have a smaller and weaker voice. That is why businesses merge so they have more power and wealth, dividing companies up weakens them.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
at least we agree britian is nothing more than a business! a group of smaller nations together eg denmark, finland, sweden, iceland, holland, eire, belgium & scotland. would have a strong voice for smaller nations and a combined strength! SNP plan to connect scottish oil & electricity direct to mainland europe with a joint venture with norway across the north sea and through denmark and europe! no need for englands assistance here? but a good example of an independent scotland in action!
tartantess 3 years ago
Sorry but you do not have all the same shared interests just because you are "small nations". I used business as an example, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a country that has a huge role on the economic and political world stage.
I hate to tell you this but England already gets some of its electricity from France, funny enough the source or purchaser of energy isnt on peoples minds when deciding the future of the United Kingdom
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
scotland has more incommon with these size nation! if england wants to waste her citizens money, strutting around the globe, playing the big player? fine! to me a waste of time and money! i don't see sweden, denmark or finland having to do that to improve their lot! scottish families like english families are no different to each other! we want our elected representatives to spend our money on services! not how big my penis is!
tartantess 3 years ago
Yes tartan you see some countries play an important role on the world stage to bring about progress. Other countries sit back and do nothing even during world wars when people are being slaughtered on their door step.
All of those small european countries spend so little on their military budget because they know NATO has always been prepared to protect western Europe. Ofcourse some countries contribute to NATO and others sadly dont.
Would u of wanted a Scotland in ww2 to do nothing?
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
agree! that's why the yanks had to come and save us! the superpowers are the ones that do that! we ain't no longer a superpower! hav'nt been for a long, long time! and unless your suggesting we invade germany or the like! and build our empire again!
tartantess 3 years ago
The Yanks just didnt come along as save us, lets not forget we were one of the major 3 allied powers which did win the war. Ofcourse Britain is no longer a world super power, but we still can play a major role on the world stage as a leading economy and military force of Europe.
If all countries too a neutral position whcih you seem to seek for Scotland then this continent would be in a very dangerous position. NATO is an important defensive alliance, not all SNP supporters are against it
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
see the national conversation on the scottish goverment website! england should engage in the same thing! the status quo! should be addressed!
tartantess 3 years ago
I agree the status quo must be addressed. However the UK is moving towards a federal system where the states have huge rights like in the United States on taxes etc but the majority still do not support breaking up this United Kingdom.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
at present! 33% do 33% do not and 33% have to be convinced and 1% don't give a toss
tartantess 3 years ago
If the people of Scotland vote against breaking up the United Kingdom the SNP has no plan to listen to their opinion or respect it.. they will simply continue to push their separatist policies.
Unlike the British government who if it does lose the vote on the union will respect Scotlands wishes and you will have your independent country.
However Britain or England will not be pushed around in settlement debates. Scotland needs the United Kingdoms acceptance to become an independent country
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
we'll let an independent legal body decide that outcome!
tartantess 3 years ago
Im sorry but everything will not just be decided by a legal body of international experts.
If the UK is to break up then you can be sure England will not accept an unfair settlement. The United Kingdom government holds all the cards if people of Scotland do want the union to break up. Scotland can either accept the reasonable settlement or face many years of disputes on this issue
The SNP should make it clear what THEY think is fair and what they are aiming for, so Scotland knows the plan
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
it won't be the united kingdom goverment? it will be an english, welsh & northern irish goverment! scotland will settle for a fair settelment! it will not be in a london goverments interest to do anything else! we still hold the energy card! and london can not afford that to be switched off! not in the 21st century can they afford to make enemy's of countries with access to cheap energy supplies! the only thing scotland will demand, is, a fair settelment! nothing more!
tartantess 3 years ago
I fully accept Scotland should get a fair deal but im sure we have very different opinions on what is a fair deal. That is why the SNP should state what THEY consider fair before people are asked to vote on breaking up this country.. so people know what to expect.
As for the UK government, if Scotland votes to leave the union which i still seriously doubt would happen then the rest of the UK will probably have to have a vote on breaking up the union aswell.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
If the people through out the UK do vote to break up the union then yes England, Wales, NI and Scotland will have to come to an agreement on the dividing up of assets.
But if England, Wales and NI decide they want to remain part of the United Kingdom then obviously the UK government will be responsible for agreeing the terms of Scotlands withdrawl from our United Kingdom.
If the rest of the UK remains it will make life alot more complicated for a future Scotland.
Thankfully you wont win :)
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
oh well that will save a fortune! we don't need a referendum the unionists have decided they know the answer! sometimes with nationlism, the heart rules the head! sometimes with unionists the head rules the heart! but sometimes! the heart and head work as one! and on a daily basis in scotland, the independence argument is being won! door by door and ex lifelong labour voter to ex lifelong labour voter! it's not the unionist we have to convince? it's the don't knows! 33% of them? we need just 16%
tartantess 3 years ago
I fully support holding the referendum, this question must be answered once and for all to atleast damage the separatist movement. Ofcourse theres a slight double standard because if the union loses the vote we will accept it and Scotland will become a separate country one day. If the Separatists lose many say the struggle will go on.
Polls can be misleading, alot easier to say yes to indepenence for a poll than when they know the vote will totally change scotland and their families future.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
At the moment the unionist parties continue to fight with each other, but that wont be the case once a referendum is actually called. To Scottish unionists a break up of the union is as unthinkable to them as Scotland breaking up into its different regions is probably to you.
Im confident that when the union war machine switches on the vote will go our way, the problem in my view is the majority. To do serious damage to the separatist movement we need a large majority of the vote which is hard.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
your dreaming! scare tactics won't work on this referendum! 33% are convinced now and growing! i think get 10% of the don't knows just to vote on the day, will carry the day! the scottish people can not stomach a tory goverment! labour by 2010 will be broken and broke! the liberals will do what liberals do, they'll want a third option on the paper! again game set and match to independence! simply, SNP just have to get their vote out on the day! it's that plain and simple! 10% COVERTED FOR 2010?
tartantess 3 years ago
Lmao you are dreaming if you think its going to be that simple. Making sure people understand the full implications of what they are voting for is not scare tactics. People should be well informed about the deicsion they are going to be making.
I agree in 2010 we will probably have a conservative government and that will make things harder, but i believe the vote will still be won. The sooner Labour goes and kicks out brown the sooner they can regroup and stop the endless loss of seats.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
new labour won the 2007 election with just 20% of electorate! if you meet 10 people in the street 3 will agree with your opinion, 3 will disagree and four will be influenced by their various states of social compliance! SNP DON'T HAVE TO CONVINCE UNIONIST! they have to convince the floating voter! i agree there will be a big effort from unionists! but it's only going to be the same old, same old! THE SKY IS FALLING! nothing new and optimistic! GIVE AN OPTIMISTIC QOUTE TO STAYING IN THE UNION?
tartantess 3 years ago
Scotland as part of the union is helping to bring freedom and democracy to 50 million people. An indendepent Scotland led by the SNP would not be prepared to step in and help others in their struggle.
Scotland is part of the United Kingdom which is one of the leading world economic powers and has alot of influence.
Scotland and England have been united for 300 years and in that time we have seen far more progress than the previous centuries
UK helped make the free world, be proud of it
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Scotland as part of the UK is involved in an illegal war and the invasion of a sovereign country.
Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children are dead because of this war.
The sooner Scotland leaves this bastard Union the better.
JiggerPick 3 years ago
Get over yourself. Let us not forget Tony Bliar was PART Scottish and was even born in Scotland. The one man in the labour party who could of led a rebellion in the labour party and stopped the war before it started was Gordon Brown (A Scot)
Now British troops are in Iraq under a United Nations mandate at the request of the democratically elected Iraqi government. They have been since 2004. The invasion may of been the wrong thing to do but atleast a dictator has been removed.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Oh and just because one report suggests 100,000s of Iraqis have died in the conflict doesnt mean its true. The United Nations, Iraqi government and Coalition all dispute such high estimates, a single figure and source which all the anti war jump on and use EVERY time they talk about Iraq.
One good thing about Salmond not having the guts to call a referendum before the 2010 election is all British troops will be out of Iraq by the time of the vote.. So the iraq war cry wont impact as much.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
just in time for record umemployment created by greedy bankers and mistyeyed unionists! the empire is long gone! wake up and embrace the future britishwatcher, an independent and flourishing scotland! controled 100% from scotland!
tartantess 3 years ago
Lmao tartantess, Do you think the people of Scotland are stupid enough to vote to form a new country in an economic crisis? The troubles we face at the moment are a reason for not risking Scotlands entire future by breaking up the union.
I also notice two major high street banks that operate throughout the UK which have been suffering alot have been the Royal Bank of Scotland and the Halifax Bank of Scotland.. Connection which both have their headquatres in Scotland.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
mistyeyed unionist contradictions, if your a unionist? surley darlings british? you can't just slot in nationallity to fit your argument? as for "running" the economy? tory policy (conservative & new labour)for the last 30 years has delivered the current mess? as for the scottish people! the good thing is they ain't that stupid! the bbc is running a year long education programme on scottish history 30th november to october 2009! just before the 2010 referendum! education, education, education
tartantess 3 years ago
Darling and Brown are British which is why i have no problem with them running Britain, as we maintain our English / Scottish / Welsh and Irish identities brown is Scottish and Darling was elected in a Scottish constituency.
Policies over the past 30 years have caused some damage but the person in power for 10 years has been brown, who could of reduced borrowing, introduced more regulation of the markets etc.
I know the Scottish people are not that stupid, thats why they will vote NO =)
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Oh and let us not forget this countries economy has been run by a SCOTTISH chancellor, born bred and ELECTED in Scotland for 10 years. In the past year when the crisis has really begun, we have had a Scottish Prime Minister and a chancellor elected by people in Scotland.
Right now Scotland is running this union
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
good point re the banks, if we had been independent, we could have delt with this without the dithering duo of broon & darling!our corporate tax & more business friendly independent enviorment! would have resulted in the world seeing scottish banking as a safe option! and their shares would have went upwards! instead being part of the london union has resulted in the mess we have, when the unionist pigs have their snouts in the troff! the union is on life support! what flowers would you like!
tartantess 3 years ago
Im sorry Tartaness but its Scotlands union with England over the past 300 years which has allowed those Scottish banks to grow and large and rich as they are today.
When Scotland joined in the union with England its economy was in chaos.. Scotlands done very well from this union.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
the union stabalised scotland from1707 -1760 but after that? we can only guess? who's to say scotland would not have been stronger? we know for sure if we had been independent from 1970 - present we would have been a much more wealthy country! therefore more stable in the current crisis! there's nothing wrong with economic union!selling your country to the highest bidder is wrong without a democratic approval of the populace! how can anyone support the british union & not the european union?
tartantess 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Well im very glad you admit atleast 50 years of progress under the union, thats further than most separatists go who attempt to erase 300 years of history.
We could play the what if game all night long, If Scotland wasnt part of the United Kingdom then a key part of labour (Brown, bliar etc) wouldnt of been involved in politics of England and the economic crisis we face today might not be happening and the oil prices might not of risen so much
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Lets say Scotland got independence in the 60s. Would an indepednent Scotland of joined the EU like Ireland, or stayed out of it like Norway? the SNP quote those two countries as examples for an independent scotland all the time.
In a few years time we will hear the democratic view of the people of Scotland.. U and the SNP campaign for the vote, i hope you are prepared for the result and respect it
I agree it is stupid to be in favour of the United Kingdom and not see the benefits of the EU
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
i'll except any democratic decision! regardless of the result! i think the independence argument is gaining ground! people are seeing past the flag waving from both sides, and starting to realise, it's just about controlling your own money & the bodies that spend it! not william wallace or the orange lodge, and other mistyeyed versions of independence! just simple fiscal control from our own established establishment! why would you give your dodgy neighbour your wages to look after??
tartantess 3 years ago
Englands dodgy neighbour is France so certainly not :) However since 1707 we have been a single united country of Great Britain, despite maintaining our independent identities of English and Scottish.
You could go back in time in Scotland aswell and see the break up of the different regions (the highlands etc) Both England and Scotland came about through unification of counties or regions, we then both united to form a country that went on to be one of the greatest in history. GREAT Britain
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
I agree with you the debate shouldnt be centered around iconoic figures or flag waving from either side. This is a very serious issue which will impact on everyone int he UK alot and people should think carefully about their vote
The debate should be on the issues about if Scotland really would be better off as a single country and how much independence would actually cost
There is a need for further devolution to allow Scotland to raise / lower certain taxes as US States can do but thats all
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
60% of the voters in the Scottish parliament elections in 2007 voted for parties which support the union. Labour, Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives.
The SNP won only 1 more seat than labour which allowed them to form their minority administration. In the recent Glasgow East election again most people that voted, voted for parties that SUPPORT the union
Im sorry but most who want an independent Scotland are more likely to want to see the SNP get into power than vote for a union party
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
so every liberal will vote no? every coservative will vote no? every labour voter will vote no? we know every snp supporter will vote yes! so the only guaranteed number so far is? 33% for independence! and we hav'nt even advertised our argument yet! bring it on!! just another 17.5% to get!
tartantess 3 years ago
I never said that every single voter for those parties will vote against independence, i said MOST who want independence were more likely to vote for the SNP than a unionist party
It also works both ways. You do not know for sure that every single person who voted for the SNP wants independence. In 2007 people were angry with labour, just as they were throughout the UK. In Scotland the lib dems were in bed with labour, making the SNP a valid protest vote, knowing it couldnt break up the union
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Just like in the recent glasgow east election. How many voted for the SNP simply as a protest vote? How many people from the other parties who are against labour decided to vote SNP just to create more problems for Brown?
LMAO @ not advertised, the SNP have been doing stunts and started their "National conversation" over a year ago. What you havnt yet seen is the 3 unionist parties putting party politics asside and crushing those separatists which will happen
Long live the United Kingdom
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
Ofcourse we also dont know if Alex Salmond and the SNP will still be as popular as they are right now. I agree they stand a better chance of winning a referendum when we dont have a Scottish Prime minister and labour in power but waiting two years could backfire on him
If the SNP and Salmond are less trusted and less popular at the time of the referendum then its likely some will be less confident in trusting salmonds empty promises on separation
If u lose the referendum, should Salmond quit?
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
historicly popular goverments get a bigger vote and majority on their second election! so the popular support will still be there! as for salmond to resign just beacause we had a democratic vote and lost? don't see the logic in that one! the scottish identity & it's future progress should involve everyone in scotland, regardless of their stance on independence! party politics holds back scottish society, our representatives should learn to represent their wards needs not their party or leaders!
tartantess 3 years ago
The popular support might still be there but in 2 years time we all dont know for sure Salmond will still be popular, if hes not then less people will trust him.
From what you and some of ur SNP supporters say victory in the referendum is almost certain. Surely if its lost badly then Salmond will of failed in his duty. You can be sure if the union side loses there will be ALOT of resignations.
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland has served the people of these islands very well in the past 300 years and i dont think you should be so confident about the future with out this union
You dont realise how important a role something plays in your life until you lose it. There are many people underestimating the huge implications of dividing up a country and the SNP has no clear evidence of what will happen
They havnt even decided what they will do about the currency
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
it will be the euro! an independent scotland or not! we will soon have it anyway!
tartantess 3 years ago
Whilst im a supporter of the European Union its a bad idea to join the Euro and unless the pound seriously collapses over a long period of time theres no chance the UK will adopt the Euro
Now an independent Scotland may want to join the euro but that are huge complications in transition considering the sterling will remain a currency when Scotland wants to change to the euro
its kind of funny you want independence and then you would go ahead and surrender full control of currency to europe
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
i think it's to far down the road to swim against that tide! but not to late to get something out of it! with our people representing our needs not londons!
tartantess 3 years ago
and sometimes it's not till you lose that something? you realise how much time you wasted with it?
tartantess 3 years ago
Perhaps i didnt word it correctly. What i meant was you dont fully understand how much this union impacts on all our lives until you lose it. When that does happen it will be too late and people may not be so happy with the outcome
That is why the SNP should have clear policies and full details of how they think an independent scotland would work and what theyd expect in a settlement so people can actually make an informed decision BEFORE deciding if destroying the union is what they want
TheBritishWatcher 3 years ago
lighten up francis :)
tartantess 3 years ago
sheep we are up against - how very true.
bcnsco 3 years ago
i'm sad that they don't see that's all they are :(
tartantess 3 years ago
indeed - the unionist media in scotland is the heart of the problem.
bcnsco 3 years ago
ever seen the shawshank redemption? well ! keep chipping away! keep planting the seeds, your work so far has been outstanding! but i bet you can produce even better! if we can produce somewhere between us all, one outstanding video, that hits a raw nerve with the undecided? then it might just tip the balance come st andrews day 2010!
tartantess 3 years ago
I like the Shawshank analogy - very apt.
"Get busy living or get busy dying".
What is it going to be Scotland? Do nothing and remain a prisoner of the Union or breakout and breathe the air of freedom, all it takes is nothing a more than a little vision, some hard work and determination.
UncleKnapsack 3 years ago