Fr. Barron comments on Taking the Discipline

[TibbieT]

Father Barron points out in another video the three levels of temptation, by which satan tempted Jesus Christ, and also tempts us human beings on a daily basis: at the 1st and lowest level: Food, Sex, Drink & Pleasure;

then at the 2nd level: Fame & Glory, the admiration of our fellow man;

and at the 3rd level: Power, even secret power wielded behind the scenes.

His explanation of those 3 levels, and how people may resist one or two levels, only to fall to the third, is invaluable

[TibbieT]

I think Father Barron gives an excellent explanation of this question of "disciplining the body". As a Protestant, I used to scorn the celibacy of Catholic priests as unnecessary & unhealthy, but after reading about the absolute primacy of sex in all satanic rituals and practices, I realized that sex is one of the easiest traps satan sets for us. Priests & nuns are not robots, but normal human beings with normal desires, which they overcome by supreme self-discipline and dedication to God.

[cierech2]

Would you refer to a scientologist as an OT Smith, or a member of wizards and witches organization as Wizard Smith?

Aren't you committing the sin of pride by insisting that people address you only titularly?

[wordonfirevideo]

@cierech2 You addressed me by a title, but you were intending disrespect.

[26ManofGod]

@wordonfirevideo Your teaching concerning the sufferings of Christ is flawed. After listening to your views, I was immediately reminded of the time when Nicodemus approached Christ by night. In this rendezvous, Nicodemus spiritual incompetence is revealed through his inability to understand Christ's doctrine of "being born again." "Are thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things," is Christ's response to this ignorance. I pray to the father (no other MAN) that you come unto truth.

[26ManofGod]

@wordonfirevideo Also, there is no "Attempting" on our(believer) part. We participate in his sufferings by virtue of ACCEPTING his atoning death(which brings righteousness) and the subsequent persecution (2 Tim 3:12)--THIS is what Paul meant! You also said "that the body and its passions need to be ordered or disciplined." The Spirit of God is what gives us the ability to maintain bodily discipline, not some futile act of "SELF" discipline against what has already been destroyed by God (Rom 8:3)

[wordonfirevideo]

@26ManofGod Oh spare me this stark either/or. The Catholic imagination is capacious enough to embrace the both/and. Of course salvation comes through God's grace, but God wants us truly to participate in the salvation that Christ won for us. Catholics find the Protestant forensic justification to be dualist and life-denying. As St. Irenaeus said, "the glory of God is a human being fully alive."

[26ManofGod]

@wordonfirevideo Out of the dear love embedded in my heart for all those who name the name of Christ, I implore you, Father, to take another look at this whole "suffering" issue. And how about we quote more bible, and less St. Irenaeus. His quote is actually very attractive, but it is supremely subordinate to Jesus' testimony. Lastly, go back--and with the help of the Holy Ghost--revisit every scripture pertaining to Christ's sufferings. I guarantee you that God is saying something else.

[26ManofGod]

@wordonfirevideo This both/and theology of the Catholic Church is ruining spiritual receptivity. I love you brother, but you must adhere to another doctrine, namely that of our dear Lord Jesus.

[26ManofGod]

@wordonfirevideo External works will not benefit you anything in the end, please choose to embrace the interior of the Faith.

-blessings Father

[wordonfirevideo]

@26ManofGod Didn't someone say, "if I have faith enough to move the mountains but have not love, I am nothing"? I'll stick with the whole of Paul and not with the selective reading of Paul that Luther bequeathed to Protestantism.

[cierech2]

Mr. Barron, do you take the discipline?

[cierech2]

Mr. Barron, do you take the discipline?

[wordonfirevideo]

@cierech2 I won't tell you, as long as you insist on calling me "Mr."

[cierech2]

@wordonfirevideo

I apologize. Is that offensive to a priest? You are a man, so Mr. applies correct?

[MontChevalier]

@cierech2 Dude, how about shutting up? When you see a doctor, you say Doctor, when you see a Rabbi, you say Rabbi, and when you see a priest, you say Father.

[sksk1995]

Enjoyed the video, i might start ' taking the discipline'

[conkite]

Father Barron explains these facts very well. That is, if you open your mind and let the thruth penetrate your consciousness. I am a cradle born Catholic. I enjoy watching these videos. They confirm what has been revealed to me by the Holy Spirit in my life.

[yankeesuperstar]

Father Barron,

I thank you for your enlightening commentary; although we all have our challenges with the faith, your explanations make it a bit easier for one to wade through some of the doubts. Thanks again.

[billybagbom]

"I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified" (1 Corinthians 9:27, NAB). Ascetic discipline is a part of ancient Christian practice, going back to our Lord Himself ("When you fast..."). If you can't get the point from what Father Barron is saying here, how are you ever going to understand Jesus and Paul?

[MobiusCoin]

And to further the point of "exercise". I've been practicing Muay Thai for the better part of two years now. And part of that martial arts training is conditioning your shins for kicks, your forearms for blocks. So once I day I grab my thai pads and whack the crap out of my shins and arms. I bet much harder than John Paul did. To get me used to the pain of kicking and blocking as well as making my strikes stronger. I'd imagine that taking the discipline is very similar in a spiritual manner.

[MobiusCoin]

And I think it takes great humility for Pope John Paul II to cover up what he did as to not try to show off, so to speak, his holiness. After all character is what you do when no one is watching.

[MobiusCoin]

Interesting point. I have to agree that there's an inevitable loose/loose situation when it comes to public perception where in one hand the secular population accuses the Church of betraying impoverished roots with the building of magnificent cathedrals and amazing collection of art while in the other hand doing as you say "taking the discipline". Which in is the very essence of living the life of Christ.

[MarysLittleFlower]

thanks for clarifying this Father :)

[Salvac88]

this is crazy

[wordonfirevideo]

@Salvac88 Are two-a-day workouts in the burning sun crazy? Is Camilo Villegas crazy to work out two hours every day? And those are just for success in sports. What about the salvation of one's soul?

[AcidWacker]

@wordonfirevideo "What about the salvation of one's soul?"

Well we have no evidence to suggest that there is such a thing as the "soul." Nor do we have any reason to believe that there is an afterlife.

[fireman8900]

@AcidWacker Sure we have reason to believe there is an afterlife. Jesus said there was himself and even rose from the dead to proclaim it. There have been many cases where people who are dieing or are pronounced dead experience after death 'life' before having their mortal bodies revived. There are plenty of unexplainable scientific phenomenon that occurs that greatly contribute to the fact that there is indeed an afterlife.

[Whitescorpian101]

@wordonfirevideo ya, but wasn't the whole point of Christ's suffering and death to prevent us from going throught that? He took on our sin so we wouldn't have to face the consequences, so why through that back in his face, say, "Nah, I want to suffer anyway."

[wordonfirevideo]

@Whitescorpian101 No, it was to show us the way. As Paul said, "we make up in our own bodies what is still lacking in the suffering of Christ. Jesus continues to suffer in his mystical body, as we make our way from death to life.

[26ManofGod]

@Whitescorpian101 I too tried explaining this to our brother

[magister343]

@wordonfirevideo

Yes, competitive sports in general are quite crazy :p

[CharityInTruth]

Most importantly self-chosen discomfort is penance, which Jesus taught often, and in His undergoing profound suffering for our benefit. So JP II wished to commemorate the scourging of Christ privately. To help him imagine the MUCH harsher objects used on Christ he decided to take it one step farther than just the mind to let his body feel it as well. We kneel at mass to take the thought of submission into practice. We can argue practicalities, but it is about intentions more than practice.

[roseannetsullivan]

He's right that saints wrote often on the benefits of suffering freely embraced. St. Rose of Lima, one of my patron saints wrote that if we knew the spiritual benefits of sufferings, we would avidly seek them out. One thing she did that could seem extreme is to deter suitors, splashed acid on her face. St. Francis, when he was tempted, threw himself into a thorny bush. One thing that pain can do is distract us from concupiscence. Just a few thoughts ...

[bigguitar22]

Only someone indoctrinated in this nonsense would view thrashing yourself with a whip as somehow a spiritual experience! Why would Christ - our father and saviour according to Catholic doctrine, want us to share his suffering? Do we as humans want this for our children - that they should suffer the tribulations we have undertaken - as a father I think not. Violence is inherent in Catholicism. Crackpot comparison between a boxer and a religious guilt ridden flagellist! Nice try but no cigar!

[wordonfirevideo]

@bigguitar22 You know, for someone who claims to hate religion, you seem awfully interested in my videos!

[theosophers]

@wordonfirevideo

repent and turn toward the life he actually lead.

he did not beat himself, he knew the law...

[baldwalrus7]

Fr. Barron,

It seems to me that your phrase that Christ took the "punishment" due to us, is penal substitution, i.e. Calvinist.

[sunbeamcatcher]

joyful prayer????? you mean the one on the cross or the one before crucifixion?

[EvodiusTheophile]

It doesn't mean that he is less holy, yet it is not proof of sanctity. It is logically possible for an unholy person to read the Bible, whip themselves, or even pray. However, the question still stands: is it right to harm oneself in an attempt at spiritual growth? Pain is not an end in and of itself, but seems to be a necessarily corollary for all virtuous acts. I think THIS kind of suffering is the proper way to interpret Paul, and not direct self-inflicted harm. Christ in you is virtue.

[sterlingrose33]

Father Barron, have you considered doing a video on the "emergent church" movement? This seems to be something quite popular these days, but I think I for one have some reservations about it. Maybe other people do too.

[Childinfaith]

Father i'm having trouble understanding the language you are using here. Please tell me you ment somthing else when you said we bring upon ouselves suffering from what was lacking in Christ's suffering. How exactly was Christ's suffering lacking?

[wordonfirevideo]

@Childinfaith "We make up in our own bodies what is still lacking in the suffering of Christ." Saint Paul said it; I'm just quoting him.

[Childinfaith]

Thanks for the reply Father. Although I'm still trying to understand what that means.

[TELEMACUS800]

@Childinfaith Perhaps that Christ will continue to effect the redemption of the world through the sufferings experienced in his Body, the Church...

[Childinfaith]

Oh wow I didnt even try and think of it in that way. The Church is the body of Christ. Lol duh on me.

[cupanther56]

@Childinfaith From newadvent(.)com

"There is no want in the sufferings of Christ in himself as head: but many sufferings are still wanting, or are still to come, in his body the church, and his members the faithful."

[dodge0808]

Father Barron is a great speaker.

Thank you for sharing this video.

God bless...

[sterlingrose33]

Oh, and by the way: did you see, on Ash Wednesday, that some Anglican priests were taking the ash out to the streets and public transit stations in Illinois and imposing the ashes on people there? Does that seem...unfit to you? I think it's kinda cool, but some think it's not good to remove it from the context of the liturgy. Would it be out of line for a priest to go to one of the el stations in Chicago and offer the ash?

[sterlingrose33]

I am curious, Father...would you or any other Catholic priest recommend this type of discipline to someone who had been victimized and abused in her past?

I confess that I am one such, and the idea of inflicting any kind of violence on the body seems very psychologically dark to me and more than a little frightening.

Your input?

[wordonfirevideo]

@sterlingrose33 Most likely not. No one is recommending this practice for everyone. If one engages in it, he or she should be under strict spiritual guidance.

[EvodiusTheophile]

I find it telling that we would not add such a caveat to almost any other spiritual practice, even other ascetic acts. Does one need "strict spiritual guidance" before undertaking the Rosary? Going to daily Mass? If one is going to practice fasting one doesn't typically require spiritual guidance but to be in good enough health. It seems to me that if this were truly a good thing to be doing as a Christian in the first place that you wouldn't have to limit it thusly or even keep it a secret.

[pmradlz]

I found this video immensely helpful as it coincides with the beginning of Lent.

Thank you.

[chymee]

godbless the holy roman catholic church

[anXVI]

Great video.

[pisumalu]

Beating children with hands, sticks, boards, etc.; husbands "physically correcting" their wives; public flogging; stocks. These were all acceptable acts at one time. Fortunately, physical violence is becoming increasingly unacceptable as an effective disciplinary tool.

I believe Pope John Paul II was a wonderful man, but he was also a product of his time, and times change. Nowhere do I recall Christ inflicting physical violence upon anyone, including himself.

[Rsx6speed]

Did not Christ Fast 40 days and 40 nights in the desert? Did not Christ know the suffering, and still permit it to happen, which he was about to endure on the Cross?

I think a better question you should ask is: did Christ teach a message which forbade self-asceticism?

[pisumalu]

Fasting and physical violence are two very different things for me, as are non-resistance and active violence. Seems to me your question could lead in any number of directions I care not to go. I think I would rather look to Jesus' life as an example of love to strive for, rather than figure out what he did and did not forbid. But as I said, I see "taking the discipline" as a product of it's time, not something to be judged nor rationalized.

[EvodiusTheophile]

Whipping yourself with a cord is not analogous to Christ's fast in the desert. Calories restriction is in fact, generally, good for you and promotes self-control over our natural appetite for food and drink. Yet, what virtue is promoted by 'taking the discipline'? The ability to sustain pain without wincing too much? Also, Christ permitted himself to suffer and die, but it is important to keep in mind that it was not self-inflicted pain and that physical pain was not the point of Christ's action

[wordonfirevideo]

@EvodiusTheophile Come on, friend!  Dieting and exercise are good for the body. Not eating for a month! That belongs in an entirely different category, namely, self-imposed asceticism. And that brings it quite close to the use of the discipline.

[EvodiusTheophile]

I think that all asceticism has to be "self-imposed" in the sense that it is a freely chosen action, however a self-imposed act (which again, is just ANY act) is not the same thing as self-inflicted harm. Self-inflicted harm is an intentional act in which causing myself pain or discomfort is my object. But physical discomfort is corollary to fasting, not the object. Going without food altogether for a month isn't asceticism, it is impossible. A human person would die in a matter of days.

[fifalacious]

@wordonfirevideo... and Christ did endure 'self-inflicted' suffering... in the desert... hunger, thirst... (Satan we recall trying to get him to give in but he wouldn't) and the whole of his freely accepting to redeem us through his suffering, telling us he lays down his life of his own accord, makes his suffering a voluntary and freely given act of love and generosity.

[fifalacious]

@EvodiusTheophile Christ did endure 'self-inflicted' suffering... in the desert... hunger, thirst... (Satan we recall trying to get him to give in but he wouldn't) and the whole of his freely accepting to redeem us through his suffering, telling us he lays down his life of his own accord, makes his suffering a voluntary and freely given act of love and generosity.

[Deadlift750]

The discipline is no more violent than fasting. There are no lasting wounds- you aren't maiming yourself. Also, Christ submitted himself to all forms of torture and humiliation when at the slightest order, angels would have come down from heaven to save Him.

[pisumalu]

While I respect your opinion, I don't agree with it. I cannot equate abstaining from food and beating oneself, and as I said in my last post, I see a huge difference between non-resistance and active violence. Non-resistance negates the power of violence, affirming that violence cannot touch our ultimate reality. Active violence is the antithesis of this point of view, it seems.

[wilkczarny]

My Grandmother slapped herself on the face every morning to wake up - as a young woman she was studying medicine to become a Doctor. She needed 2 hours to get ready and get to the university by tram - this was in pre-WWII Poland. If she was slow about getting out of the boarding house she would miss her tram and there was no one to wake her up. The only way to wake herself up was with a sharp pain to her face. She did this ten times on each cheek, and guess what - it worked!

[DannyPhantomBeast]

I still fail to see how doing so disciplines the body. When it is the self administering the "punishment" wouldn't it then by one's own will the body is submitting to, as opposed to God's, or others?

[JDZwiers19]

@DannyPhantomBeast

By making our bodies more submissive to our spirit we are more able to follow God. Our body demands things contrary to God. By ignoring the bodies rebellion against the pain we are training our wills to ignore our bodies other, less admirable demands.

[EvodiusTheophile]

Our bodies do not demand things contrary to God (that is heresy). These natural and good inclinations are only 'evil' insofar was we tend to them over and against greater goods such as God. But self-inflicting pain doesn't make one virtuous, it just hurts. Rather, by practicing specific habits (such as chastity) one can begin to reorient the soul toward good in the service of God. Just as one doesn't become a good chess player by golfing, one doesn't grow in Charity by whipping themselves.

[JDZwiers19]

@EvodiusTheophile

Learning an instrument teaches one discipline that can be beneficial in every area of life. If Golf helped a person to increase their focus then they may grow better at chess. Saint Paul said that the Flesh is in constant rebellion against the spirit. I disagree with almost everything you said. I think you missed the point of Father Baron's video.

[EvodiusTheophile]

I think I understood, but find the explanation unsatisfactory. What is discipline, anyway? I can't see how it necessarily follows that by "learning an instrument" one becomes inclined to do other things...what things? You only do anything that you believe is beneficial, but playing an instrument won't make you believe that Christ is beneficial. If it did, the Rolling Stones would be some pretty holy dudes! Do you think that Paul means by "the flesh" our body? So we must punish the body?

[Jitpring]

A masochist wouldn't practice corporal mortification, as not doing so would be more painful for him than doing so.

[Jitpring]

The only thing that's startling is that it's startling. Such is this dead age.

[havock89]

Awesome description Fr. Barron. Please keep up with this commentary and catechesis. You are a credit to all those who take Holy Orders and I especially enjoy your quoting other great spiritual men and women in the church, which I have been previously unaware of.

Keep up the good work.

[quangjd]

The exercise analogy is enlightening. For those who are working their body are not doing it for the pain, the purpose is to train themselves.

[DarthMambo]

@quangjd Mother Theresa, Brother Roger, ... they all pumped spiritual iron :)

[quangjd]

@DarthMambo Unlike me who is still working up to pumping spiritual down pillows.

[DarthMambo]

Loved the example of the gym - absolutely cracking.

[PrairiePie23]

food, sex...air- passions of the body. It seems to me that self flagellation in the place of sex and food, is masochistic. If this is a way to connect with the suffering of Christ, I don't see why you wouldn't go all out if you like - like the folks in the Philippines.

[sulkow82]

Part of the issue here is moderation. Also, what he is saying here is different. Fr. Barron is not saying that "taking the discipline" replaces sex. He is saying it replaces hedonism.

[PrairiePie23]

The point of my comments re: moderation is to ask why. Why moderation? If you want to connect to the suffering of Jesus, go for it.

Notice I didn't say self flagellation replacing sex exclusively.

To both points, why is it Fr. Barron's (or your) place to define moderation and hedonism? What is moderate? When is sex hedonistic? When you all think you agree, we won't need to have these discussions about the habits of the former pope (no pun intended).

[sulkow82]

Sex is hedonistic when it is used when the pleasure is its own goal. When it is to develop the relationship bond between the two individuals, then it is not hedonistic.

You are correct, it is not our place to define moderation. It is our place to employ (and discuss) those definitions into practice.

Also, the other concern is the more intense the flogging, the greater chance that someone can forget the why of the practice in the first place.

[quangjd]

@PrairiePie23 You do not take it too far because you need to respect the body. We are created by God and in the love of God. It's hard to explain the fine line, though it is not necessery a fine line to those who use this discipline.

I am told that "taking the discipline" is only allowed to practice with a knowledgeable and orthodox spiritual director to keep us in check. This allows those who is ready for this discipline do not bastardized the action away from the meaning.

[EvodiusTheophile]

To me this position is incoherent. So you to subdue the body in imitation of the passion, but then you do it gently? First off it is really difficult (impossible) to reconcile self-flagellation with respect for the body (I'd hate to see disrespect for the body)...after-all, the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Also, why stop at a gentle whipping? Christ was scourged and nailed to the cross! It seems to follow that one ought to do more, if this practice is sound.

[quangjd]

@EvodiusTheophile To learn to play an instrument, you can gain a greater appreciate for music and the art.

To learn to discipline your body, you can gain a greater appreciate for freedom to make such a choice and the one who gave us that freedom.

Taking the Discipline is not self-inflicting violence. The character count does yield a solid explanation, but trust that it is different.

An example would be a father teaching is son to ride a bike. He gains a skill and learns trust, despite falls.

[EvodiusTheophile]

Playing an instrument will give you all sorts of insight and growth wherever it is directly related to playing an instrument. You're begging the question, why isn't it self-inflicted violence?Unless you can generate a clear answer then you ought to admit that you either don't know or that it simply IS self-inflicted violence. A boy learning from his father already has requisite trust, what he learns is to ride a bike. Whipping yourself isn't a true expression of freedom anymore than suicide.

[quangjd]

@EvodiusTheophile It is not as black and white in terms of skill before the art or art before the skill. Some are great musicians before they learn how to play the flute. Some sons have great paternal trust before they learn from the father how to ride a bike. At the same time, they may know nothing about music and begin the art through the instrument. And at the same time, the son and father may be estranged and only honestly begin their relationship with the training to ride a bike. All Common

[wilkczarny]

Too much sex is addiction, too much food is gluttony. Too much air & you will faint, try - it's called hyperventilation. And yes - one does connect with the suffering of Christ when one is in pain. How else can you imagine what He went through if you always take pain-killers & avoid any kind of physical pain? The important thing about physical pain is that you can suffer & still be sane, moral & in control of yourself - that is what Christ proved by suffering.

[PrairiePie23]

You still haven't addressed the point; what is too much? What is hedonistic? By whose standards are we measuring? "Put to death what is earthly in you..." among which are covetousness and passion. These two things in particular get modern Christians in an ideological pinch. Do you sit in "sackcloth and ashes"?

[EvodiusTheophile]

Too much of anything isn't necessarily an addiction, but is an overindulgence. Disordered sexual desire can be lust. But one only connects with the suffering of Christ if one prayerfully intends to. It is possible to suffer a great deal without any spiritual benefit, in fact, I think all sin can be characterized in this way. Christ's sacrifice isn't about "self-control" or supernatural resilience to pain, that claim I think misses the point entirely because just to suffer was not the point.

[pisumalu]

I would agree, and add that I see the lesson in Christ's suffering being that regardless of violence directed at Him, he did not resist evil, for it could never touch that which was His reality, namely His spiritual oneness in God. This is the entire message of faith. We are in this world, but faith brings us in touch with our True reality, which is not of this world. This is the Kingdom within, and in learning to rest in that reality, beyond words and concepts, we experience Divine Union.

[EvodiusTheophile]

Jesus does not have 'spiritual oneness' with the Father but ontological oneness. Humans attain spiritual oneness with God. The Kingdom is not 'within', it is not some misty idea, rather it is ontological, spiritual unity with God. Christ's suffering and dieing is not really a moral lesson in the way you have characterized it. It isn't about passivity if that's what you mean. Rather, it is about Love. God's self-emptying love for creation which has restored us to the divine union you mention.

[pisumalu]

@EvodiusTheophile Well, that is fine and good, but in the end my post and yours are simply a collection of thoughts, mental concepts. The real question is, to what experience do the lead?

[shedininja001]

Tridation is nice, but show me scriptures that would say I nead to do something like that.

[sulkow82]

Well, I do not run aimlessly. I do not box as one beating the air, but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified. 1 Cor 9: 26-27

This does not mandate the behavior, but certainly says that there is great benefit in it.

[shedininja001]

Well, I stand corrected. I have no idea what to do with that.

[DarthMambo]

@shedininja001 Well, as a suggestion, we're just getting started into Lent so how about doing something in imitation of Paul? How about some kind of fast on Fridays? You could abstain from meat or just keep your meals purposefully small and simple. Just a thought :)

[shedininja001]

possibly, might serve my spirt in some way that i'm not aware of at the moemnt as i've never been able to fast.

thanks. something to think about

[DarthMambo]

@shedininja001 No worries. Something more familiar? Maybe spend a few minutes each morning praying over the Scriptures that Fr Barron mentioned? e.g. Col 1:24-30

Even if you don't give it much weight, there is a very strong tradition of "mortification of the body" in the Early Church.

Also, I dug out more related Scripture:

OT: 1 Ki. 21:27; Ne. 9:1; 2 Ki. 6:30; Jb. 16:15; 2 Macc. 3:19; 1 Ki. 21:27; Joel 1:13; 2 Sa. 21:10; Is. 58:5; Is. 20:2;

NT: Jon. 3:5; Mt. 11:21; 1 Cor 9:27; Rev. 11:3

[AmbroseEpeeMaster]

Didn't he mention St. Paul and the Epistles a few times lol. And Tradition is just as valid as Scripture.

[shedininja001]

i dont nead any tridation thanks, but scripture I do.

[dsydebot]

But Scripture *is* a tradition. Not only does it codify certain Jewish and Apostolic traditions, the act of preserving it as handing it down, as well as recognizing it to be the word of God, are all traditions as well.

[shedininja001]

your free to belive that the scirpture is nothing more then tradition. I do not hold that.

[dsydebot]

"nothing more" than tradition? I'm not sure what you mean. I'm not denying that it is the word of God. What I mean is that the Apostles gave the Church the Scriptures, and that the Church has handed those scriptures down through the ages, thus making the Scriptures a Christian tradition.

[quangjd]

@dsydebot Yeah, the knowledge of the scriptures and what we know belongs in the list of inspired text is part of the great Tradition of the Church.

[Jitpring]

There is only one Word of God: the Word become flesh - Jesus Christ, the eternal Logos. John Ch. 1, Prologue.

Protestant elevation of Holy Scripture as the Word is thus unbiblical. Holy Scripture is Holy Scripture. It is not the Word. Only Christ is the Word, the Logos.

[dsydebot]

Well, it depends on what you mean. In the sense of God' eternal, intellectual "Word", you are correct. However, since the Church teaches us that the Sacred Scriptures have God as their primary author, they are analogous the Word, and are therefore called the "word of God" (lowercase "w") as well.

[upbeatdad71]

Many thanks for posting this video, Father. This has been a difficult aspect of the faith for me to come to terms with. What I still don't understand is why someone would do this to the point of drawing blood. It is said that St. Josemaria Escriva would whip himself so hard that blood would fly across the room! How is drawing blood and causing such tissue damage "a human being fully alive?" I accept mortification in general, but that seems extreme, and it frightens me. Help...

[sulkow82]

What you describe here is an extreme example. Clearly you are not called to do such intensity. If you like the practice but not the intensity, I would suggest (with the guidance of a spiritual mentor) to take it just to the level where your spiritual life is improved.

As for the saint you mentioned, offer your confusion (on that matter) to God as a sacrifice.

[TJB5]

Very instructive clip, Father, thank you. And, as noted, very timely given the beginning of the Lenten Season.

[boyscout21]

great video Father Barron, the part about the passions of the body being like children was an excellent example. God Bless