Buckley is completely disingenuous here, at this time, and for yrs., he had been writing racist editorials in NR insisting that African Americans were ignorant and would not know how or why to vote, even it "given" this right. He also insisted for yrs. that Southern whites should decide the racial issue, since they had a "special insight" into the "problem." He spewed no such rhetoric during this debate.
Wm. Buckley attempting to marginalize Baldwin's magnificent speech by snarkily accusing him of an affected British accent! Apparently Billo was oblivious to his own, completely phony Virginia/NE patrician brogue.
@conucoheights Accuse this last late comment but I just went back and watched the debate a few times over to refresh my memory and Mr. Buckley wasn't arguing that the negro in 1965 had benefited from the "greatest civilization in the history of humanity" You do know that this debate took place in 1965 when people were getting beat in the apex of the Civil Rights Movement. Why would Mr. Buckley argue that when all you had to do is turn on the TV and see that those people were being mistreated
@mmawilldesha liberalism has got you by the b@lls - or ovaries. what i am saying is that his argument is that the american negro benefits from what the white civilization (without precedent in human history) gives it out of their concern, which is more than most of the planet. why would he argue that? because his philosophical lineage is emblematic of carries the heritage of the Renaissance and the Enlightment to the post-world war i world: the civilizing mission of humanity.
It appears that someone on here should just say "I hate Niggers" so they can sleep better. There is no need for anyone to type that many comments when their aim is very clear. At any rate, Baldwin and Buckley had valid points but anyone who doesn't understand Baldwin's perspective is ignorant to the reality of American History.
This wasn't a debate, it was a sequence of two speeches, Buckley's one being largely off-topic. It would have been interesting to hear Baldwin react after Buckley's manipulative spinning...
In the mean time, the CULPRITS, those responsible for CREATING the oppression -or if they're long dead, their descendents, their MINDFRAME- is still FULLY ALIVE in society, has actually USED the minority to EXPAND its control, has merely switched its parasitic, exploitative, psychopathic aims to another scene.
The end result is that in GLOBAL terms, EVERYBODY is being more and more oppressed & controlled. It's a very devious dynamic & people fall for it all the time. Google Frankfurt School
...institutions that have outlived their purposes in the eyes of the elite, such as church, nuclear family, communities, tradition etc etc and generate a new type of society, NONE of the features having been analyzed or anticipated by the struggling minority, nor anyone else except the social engineers.
The problem here is that the minority's struggle was BLIND: it didn't take into account its own essence, nor society's nature; the EXCLUSIVE focus was FIGHTING OPPRESSION.
Pfft. All (minority) liberational struggles are designed, set up and controlled by the elite from A to Z. They've done it with women, proletarians, blacks, gays, always using the same principles, always changing many facets of society in the process that exceed the actual issue, never solving the root problems, never delving into the core issues, it's all about 'FIGHT THE OPPRESSOR!!! EQUALITY!!! RIGHTS!!!'
These monolithic liberational struggles serve to collapse many of society's...
Sistarovat, I feel compelled to call attention to the fact that you are a hateful troll who deserves as much attention as as is necessary for amused and pitying dismissal. Otherwise, the Baldwin speech preceding this was heartfelt and moving. Buckley on the other hand is clearly in love with himself and the sound of his own voice.
@salishaw Okay, Hebrews then. So, you're saying the reason blacks seem to be incapable of succeeding is because they are at a cultural disadvantage? Sorry, but that doesn't fly.
@Sistarovat You're unable to comprehend. Look up the word socialization. By the way, Hebrew is a language not a race of people. You're making stuff up and that's why you can't be taken seriously.
@salishaw Environmental factors and cultural socialization haven't seemed to keep Asians and Jews from overachieving. Sure, blacks can certainly be proud of their success, but it pales in comparison to other groups. African people simply aren't intellectually or morally up to par with other races or ethnicities. It is this and this alone which has kept them behind everyone else. I'm not saying they are inferior human beings. Look at the NBA, they're good at sports at least.
@Sistarovat Most Asian ideologies, have greatly affected Asian cultural socialization, therefore offering an environmental agent that has greatly affected their psyche. There is no comparison when you have these vast social differences.
@Sistarovat Very poetic of you, or should I say simple mentality of the utmost. Jews are not a racial group, but rather a religious one. Asians in this country, although not entirely are products of dictatorial environments of Communism and or other ideologies of religiosity of variant degrees. There is no comparison when you have these vast social differences. Your racist behavior is bleeding all over YOUTUBE. It's good to know the truth about you.
@salishaw I'm not racist and you really don't seem to know the definition of the word racist. Neither you nor the American Psychological Association seem to be able to explain why the negro race doesn't seem to be able to succeed and achieve like Asians and Whites. You know blacks do not achieve the academic success that Jews, Whites, and Asians achieve although they have the same advantages. I've lived around blacks my entire life, I don't need a psychologist to tell me about black people.
@Sistarovat First you argued that genetically that Blacks were unable to learn the same as Whites, then you argued statistically Blacks were unsuccessful more than Whites. None of your arguments were provided with sound facts. The American Anthropology Association is a group of scientist of superior merit, who have exhausted a great deal of research on an academic level that is it recognized world wide.
@Sistarovat Statistically you never compare racial groups who have different social environments and smaller percentages. You'll never arrive at a conclusive accurate result. Asians are more successful than Whites academically, but it's not an accurate result, due to social environmental factors. Does this mean Asians are more successful and are genetically smarter than Whites, it's inconclusive.
@Sistarovat You have to accept environmental factors and cultural socialization. Blacks have achieved a great deal of success in America and it's something that can be proud of.
@Sistarovat I would be apt to believe what you say, if you could provide scientific facts from an academic perspective, but you failed to do so. You haven't proved anything and you make yourself come across as a racist. You've articulated a racist point of view using 18th century racism, which doesn't hold water today.
@salishaw Google "black-white IQ differences flawlesslogic", "grad rates between blacks and whites widening huffingtonpost", and "black college graduation rates inch higher jbhe". No, I don't think white skin has anything to do with it anymore than Asians squinted eyes help them to achieve better academically than caucasians. Your brain isn't in the pigment of your skin. But physical characteristics do vary based on ethnicity. However, those physical characteristics aren't the changes themselves
@Sistarovat There are no universally accepted definitions of either race and intelligence in academia. A vast study is required to make a determination and the evidence is inconclusive from four major areas of study. The areas of psychology, anthropology, biology and sociology are used by academia. These areas of discipline were not explored or used by Daniel Seligman, rather he used his own applications of mathematics and 18th century scientific racism. aaanet.org/stmts/race.htm
@Sistarovat The official position of the American Anthropology Association is that intelligence cannot biologically be determined by race. The American Psychological Association has stated that there is even less empirical support for genetic definition. Physical characteristics only show the differences in physical appearance, but nothing to do with intelligence. It's your racist imagination and or whim. read - aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm
@salishaw We don't need statistics to tell us that, that's common knowledge. There are more graduates of every race because there are far more colleges today. That's like saying, statistics show that there are more college football teams today than there were 120 years ago. Statistics also show that no other ethnic group succeeds less in academics than negroid peoples. How do you explain that if it's not something genetical?
@Sistarovat You're espousing some unfounded hypotheses, scientific racism doctrine from the 18th century, which has no academic merit. There's no scientific data to support this racist doctrine. As I suspected early on from our dialogue, you suffer from a racial fear. Inculcated doctrine of hate because of some whimsical fallacies from 18th century perverted philosophers
@Sistarovat . Simple mentality is mere waste. Please bring factual sound proofs of substantial merit. Now it's apparent, you've been socialized to believe your superior because of white skin. The issue is one of human behavior and you're part of the problem.
@salishaw Kennedy's election was only controversial to Bible-believing Christians who understood properly the danger of having a Catholic who might be controlled by the Vatican in the White House. But, by sitting down with Protestants and Evangelicals, he laid those fears to rest and he ended up getting more or their votes than Nixon. The idea that Anglo-Saxon Protestants kept anyone who was not like them down from achieving here all the way until the 60s is mythology.
@salishaw I agree that proper education difinitely helps. But blacks have received proper education for over 120 years. If you don't want to count pre-integration as a "proper education, then blacks have had the same opportunities and even moreso than whites (b/c they're minorities) for the past fifty years. How long do you think it will take to bring them up the the achievement level of say...Asians? another 50? 100 years of "proper education"?
@Sistarovat More specifically proper education inculcated from the perspective of middle class, suburban socialization would produce better results, and this has been proven among examples of Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell. Inner city, ghetto trauma only perpetuates the hideous behavior often shown on mainstream media outlets. Some of the Black population has success although they are only 12 percent.
@Sistarovat Unfortunately poor education from ineffective schools systems with a combination of poor parenting has aided in the continued social issues, plagued not only by Blacks, but also among poor uneducated Whites and Latinos. Asians are small in numbers overall and Whites are a large majority. Your examples are statistically skewed and don't provide the overall picture.
@Sistarovat Statistics also prove that we now have a higher percentage of college graduates among Blacks than we did 120 years ago. The issue is not a matter of color, as you seem to be more concern with the color of skin, rather than advancement of good behavior among all people.
@salishaw That's nonsense. Kennedy didn't change anything for anybody. Native Americans were poor and underpriviliged, but a Native American managed to become Vice-President in 1928 under Herbert Hoover. He didn't need a Civil Rights Act or any kind of Equal Rights Act to help him "achieve equality".
@Sistarovat Sure it makes sense. Kennedy's controversial election, because of his Catholic background certainly changed the mindset of many Americans in a time when it was not acceptable. American Indians are plagued with social issues today and live off the government on government sanctioned reservations all over the country.
@Sistarovat Barack Obama becoming the president will not solve the issue of Black Americans, much like some Indian American in the 1920s becoming president will not solve theirs. The issue is one of behavioral socialization. You're missing the point. We all agree big government for any people will not solve the issue. Again, it's proper education and proper socialization, which will remove the issue of destructive behavior.
@Sistarovat Blame your government for the issue of government sanctioned programs for any people (White, Indian or Black) that take away from tax payers dollars. Don't blame the color of skin, blame your government. The issue should be one of methodology of educating it's masses to be self sufficient. That's worth blaming. Who cares about skin color? What can you do for your country and your society is the real question?
Let's face it folks, the Irish, Italians, and Germans had it. The negroes just didn't. After 50 years of government forced equality, the American negro is still the poorest, most dumbed down, most criminal, and most illigitimate member of any race that inhabits the U.S. of A.
@Sistarovat It's not a matter of skin color and your examples, Irish, Italians and Germans are mere ethnicity, shared by a different heritage, opposite of Anglo-Protestant Americans. All whites are not equal, as the Irish and Italians were the bottom of the social status structure up until the 1960s. Elected president Kennedy changed the social climate for Irish and Italian commoners. Those identified as Irish, Italians, Catholic's were consider undesirables by the naysayers.
@Sistarovat Human socialization, societal structure dictates behavior patterns, and are the key to behavioral development. Government programs of forced equality will not eradicate reckless behavioral socialization. Proper education is the solution to solving the socialization issue.
Let's face it folks, the Irish, Italians, and Germans had it. The negroes just didn't. After 50 years of government forced equality, the American nigger is still the poorest, most dumbed down, most criminal, and most illigitimate member of any race that inhabits the U.S. of A.
Also what the irish and italians had that blacks didn't have was simple perseverance. The freed blacks had their will broken a long time ago.They survived slavery technically but they were dead on the inside.
Although I found Mr. Buckley to be utterly obnoxious, boring and decidedly no match for the oratotrial skills of Mr. Baldwin, I did agree with some of his allusions as to responsibility for inequities endured by Black Americans & how those inequties must be dealt with. Since slavery's end, successful Blacks have not been as instrumental in assisting their brethren as was necessary. Too often, they became intoxicated by delusions of grandeur and egotistical fantasies re: their superiority.
@kweju3 Another problem faced by freed Blacks was mindset. They internalized their social status and couldn't simply shake it off and adapt to White society. A sense of being "lesser than" followed with them as they left the plantations. Thus, they "waited for godot" who never came to guide them to success in a world foreign to them. Subsequently, many fell prey to a legacy of believing in their own inferiority which was passed on to their children. As Buckley said, it is a very complex issue.
@kweju3 That is indeed a truth my brotha that some black folk back then were very unsure and suspicious of their newfound place in the world, though in title only, but allow me to expand on that by saying that the forces of which they were subjected to just moments ago also played an instrumental part in their hesitation to move on as the mindset of the plantation owner was not or had not as you put it been able to "move on". So though their titles had changed their conditions were unchanging
@sthomps1 And the beat goes on. Sadly, this country fails to delve into the subject of slavery and its impact on our culture. There is a fear to face its consequences. My mind continues to recoil at a quote by Harriet Tubman which pointed to a power which reverberates through time: "I freed a thousand slaves, and I could have freed a thousand more, if only they "knew" they were slaves." My soul trembles. Beliefs shackle more permanently than chains. Peace Bro
@legalman 1980 - So your saying that in 1965 the white community agreed to fully embrace the negro in America? That in 1965 work began to fully integrate the negro into all aspects of American society? Your saying that from 1965 to the early 1990s that the white majority in America was working as hard and as fast as it could to improve the schools, housing, and employment options for the negro, specifically the poor negro and despite all the white man's generous help, the negro developed
@TaskForceSixTwoSix - Should one of those people join the civil rights movement it is certainly probable that they would lose some of that hatred with improved understanding of those that were their oppressors.
@legalman 1980 - I want you to reread your own post and focus specifically on the statement before the Ad hominem attack , "...black culture would devolve into beginning in the 1990s with Gangsta Rap music and its influence on white kids becoming "wiggers,"..."
@TaskForceSixTwoSix - within their group that hates the majority? Are you saying that those of Jewish descent that survived in Nazi Germany should have not one among them that has any hatred whatsoever in their heart for that blond, blue eyed German walking past them on the street?
@TaskForceSixTwoSix - It's good to see your reading, but you should read a bit more before you post. Your understanding of history and your grasp of logic are both flawed. I do though enjoy the argument that since some blacks hate whites and join the civil rights movement initially due to this hatred that the movement has been hijacked. Is it your understanding that a group of people that are hated by the majority for decade upon decade, century upon century should have not one person
If you could go back in time to 1965, go to this debate, and show these ignorant white people what the urban black culture would devolve into beginning in the 1990s with Gangsta Rap music and its influence on white kids becoming "wiggers," then everyone in that room would be scared shitless of them and instantly vote in favor of Buckley. The whiney homosexual Baldwin would probably have a heart attack then instead of dying in 1987. All you'd have to do is show them MTV shows.
A lot of you people bashing Buckley aren't educated enough to understand the subtle points he was making.
In reality, his side won the debate. Especially when judged from the vantage point of the modern day. It just didn't seem that way due to the biased crowd and presenters.
The points made by the other side were absurd. Acting as if the American economy and nation was built by blacks is ridiculous. They picked cotton, did chores for rich people and did other such menial tasks. They act as if white people were just sitting on a porch sipping iced tea - when they weren't whipping hard working black slaves of course - for all of American history.
And those efforts were primarily conducted in the Deep South - a tiny part of the country. There was barely any black slave presence in the rest of America. And today, the wealthiest parts of America are in areas where black slaves barely even existed. And the Deep South is relatively poor by American standards.
It was especially outrageous when Baldwin whined about murder, rape and racism. Look at the crime statitsics. A whopping 40,000 white females are raped by black males every single year in America. In compariosn, only about 10 black females are raped by white males. Blacks also commit an astonishing 85% of violent crime in America despite only being about 12% of the population. And black on white crime is far, far more pervasive than the reverse.
And blacks are EXTREMELY racist. Look no further than the 2008 election where an astonishing 99% of black voters voted for Obama purely based on race - and they were perfectly open and proud of doing so. So what he's accusing whites of doing to blacks, blacks are in fact doing to whites and always have.
Buckley also raises the excellent point that black failure is their own doing and not the result of white discrimination or racism. He correctly pointed out that other ethnic minorities in America flourish. That's become even more clear as asians in America actually have higher standards of living, higher grades, higher incomes, commit less crime and have higher IQs than whites. How is that possible if there's some supposed white conspiracy to oppress non-whites?
The real reason blacks struggle in America is the same reason they struggle everywhere else - they have the lowest IQs in the world. Academics have known that for decades. You just aren't allowed to talk about it because it goes right to the heart of explaining black faliure.
The biased crowd also laughed off the statistics that blacks in America have almost always had it relatively great here. Their standards of living are far higher than they would be had they remained in their native Africa. So they've benefitted tremendously from being brought here as slaves.
If you want to see how these blacks would cope without white leadership and civilization, just look at Liberia. It's a country in Africa founded by America for the purpose of reestablishing former black American slaves in their own homeland which they could govern and develope. And as a result, the average income in Liberia is $2 a day... THAT'S why blacks are so poor in America and every other place in the world where they live.
They don't live in poor ghettos because whites are forcing them to live there. They live in poor ghettos because they just aren't very intelligent. Chinese Americans also live in ghettos. Yet they're prosperous and safe there. Why? Because East Asians have the same IQ levels as whites. So it's clearly a lack of black intelligence which condemns them to eternal poverty - not white oppression.
Baldwin was also ignorant of black history. We merely purchased blacks who were ALREADY slaves in Africa. Blacks weren't just rounded up in nets by white slave traders in Africa. Arab muslims have been invading, colonizing, raping, murdering and enslaving blacks since the founding of islam. They enslaved far more blacks than white Europeans ever did. It's just that nobody knows about it due to the lack of education I mentioned at the start of my comment.
The reality about black slavery in America is that it was a small part of the human slave trade. And not all that traumatic. Only %5 to %15 of the European slave trade of black Africans went to America. The majority went to South America and the Caribbean. And the blacks that were shipped to America were treated relatively well and humanely - for slave standards.
And of course blacks don't have the monopoly on claiming victim slave status. Many millions of white Christian Europeans were also enslaved by muslims. My Slavic (short for slave) ancestors in Europe were enslaved and abused by the muslim Turks for centuries. Do you see white people bitching about it, though? Or using it as an excuse for current day failings? Nope.
Buckley also made a fantastic point when he warned about these supposed "equality" movements being hijacked by those who hate whites and who will implement systematic and legalized "reverse discrimination" (really it's just racist, anti-white discrimination). That is indeed exactly what took place as a result of the civil rights movement.
So laugh at and deride Buckley all you want. He was right.
@TaskForceSixTwoSix Bullshit, Frank Tannenbaum, a South American specialist, pointed to the striking differences between Brazilian and American slavery. The feudal, Catholic society of Brazil had a legal and religious tradition which accorded the slave a place as a human being in the hierarchy of society. Slaves in South America and Caribbean had more rights than American slaves. Nathan Glazer, an american sociologist, said that American slavery was the worst form of slavery in recored history.
@conucoheights Not really that comment was directed at someone who was pretty much trying to justify american slavery by saying that we were treated better and I had information that I felt refuted that claim. So please keep in mind I was just responding and I didn't mean to offend anyone.
@mmawilldesha please read a book or two on the haitian revolution and slavery in the dominican republic. then go read slavery in colombia and peru. that brazillian nonesense is their version of whitewashing history that negro liberals are too eager to embrace. i'll even give you a hint, follow the sugar.
@conucoheights I will definitely keep your comments in mind when I return to the bookstore or I go to the libary but what is wrong with being liberal?
@mmawilldesha what's wrong with being an ideology? - you're gonna have to crack that nut yourself homie. you can start with "the death of the liberal class" and "the dark side of the renaissance" -
"i peep at the ways of the streets, and stay awake to the ways of the world cause sh!t is deep"
@conucoheights That being said I do feel that, and this is my opinion, that each population of slaves and slave descents had its own challenges and each has a history that is unique that separates them from the other populations of slaves and slave descents. Now thats just what I believe I don't know for sure whether or not that is true but it just seems that way to me.
@TaskForceSixTwoSix In Brazil they didn't brake up families the way they did in America, and they would even gave their slaves ways to earn money to buy their freedom. For the most part most of the free slaves in America were runaways, very very few were set free by their masters, and they had laws in place back then that made it hard for the owner of slaves to free his slaves even if he wanted to. I hate bringing up America's horrible past but you people need some history lessons.
@TaskForceSixTwoSix Now explain white trash failure. Why are they still living in trailer parks and shacks after eight generations and having had no social impediments to the "American Dream"?
Buckley's self-styled accent is the most pompous and arrogant tone I've ever heard. And ending the speech by saying that, if black Americans revolt against the system of oppression, the white Americans will fight them, and conquer them, for their own good, is the same attitude that Baldwin criticized when talking about being a ward of the state and an object of Christian charity. Buckley clearly thinks that blacks are repressed for their own good and that they are children to be cared for.
Buckley was brilliant. The difficulty one has in accepting his point of view is that most people don't want to be labeled a racist for any apparent hesitation to jump on the civil rights bandwagon. After all, only a racist would not be in favor of civil rights. But ultimately Buckley and Baldwin both wanted to see racial equality. They differed only in their prescriptions. Baldwin speaks to the heart while Buckley speaks to the mind. Both speeches were very impressive. Buckley's was brilliant.
what a pompous ass... What is his point? What is he suggesting... He tried to say early on that, we all work hard, and our compounded effort and achievements are not due exclusively to negroes, therefore creating a strawman, a false argument which noone has arrived at.
Buckley is completely disingenuous here, at this time, and for yrs., he had been writing racist editorials in NR insisting that African Americans were ignorant and would not know how or why to vote, even it "given" this right. He also insisted for yrs. that Southern whites should decide the racial issue, since they had a "special insight" into the "problem." He spewed no such rhetoric during this debate.
jimfocus69 2 weeks ago
Wm. Buckley attempting to marginalize Baldwin's magnificent speech by snarkily accusing him of an affected British accent! Apparently Billo was oblivious to his own, completely phony Virginia/NE patrician brogue.
jimfocus69 2 weeks ago
Wow, great videos. Thanks for posting.
mckennamind 1 month ago
Buckley's argument: "Look! the negro has been allowed to benefit from the greatest civilization in the history of humanity"
conucoheights 1 month ago
@conucoheights Accuse this last late comment but I just went back and watched the debate a few times over to refresh my memory and Mr. Buckley wasn't arguing that the negro in 1965 had benefited from the "greatest civilization in the history of humanity" You do know that this debate took place in 1965 when people were getting beat in the apex of the Civil Rights Movement. Why would Mr. Buckley argue that when all you had to do is turn on the TV and see that those people were being mistreated
mmawilldesha 1 month ago
@mmawilldesha liberalism has got you by the b@lls - or ovaries. what i am saying is that his argument is that the american negro benefits from what the white civilization (without precedent in human history) gives it out of their concern, which is more than most of the planet. why would he argue that? because his philosophical lineage is emblematic of carries the heritage of the Renaissance and the Enlightment to the post-world war i world: the civilizing mission of humanity.
conucoheights 1 month ago
Not really a debate both men made great points. And yet I think Buckley response was a bit weak.
MrTruthbuilder 2 months ago
William Buckley is not only boring but he is a pseudo recensionist full of hubris.
VideoWin1 2 months ago
It appears that someone on here should just say "I hate Niggers" so they can sleep better. There is no need for anyone to type that many comments when their aim is very clear. At any rate, Baldwin and Buckley had valid points but anyone who doesn't understand Baldwin's perspective is ignorant to the reality of American History.
chavon30 2 months ago
This wasn't a debate, it was a sequence of two speeches, Buckley's one being largely off-topic. It would have been interesting to hear Baldwin react after Buckley's manipulative spinning...
suddenlyitsobvious 2 months ago
(3)
In the mean time, the CULPRITS, those responsible for CREATING the oppression -or if they're long dead, their descendents, their MINDFRAME- is still FULLY ALIVE in society, has actually USED the minority to EXPAND its control, has merely switched its parasitic, exploitative, psychopathic aims to another scene.
The end result is that in GLOBAL terms, EVERYBODY is being more and more oppressed & controlled. It's a very devious dynamic & people fall for it all the time. Google Frankfurt School
suddenlyitsobvious 2 months ago
(2)
...institutions that have outlived their purposes in the eyes of the elite, such as church, nuclear family, communities, tradition etc etc and generate a new type of society, NONE of the features having been analyzed or anticipated by the struggling minority, nor anyone else except the social engineers.
The problem here is that the minority's struggle was BLIND: it didn't take into account its own essence, nor society's nature; the EXCLUSIVE focus was FIGHTING OPPRESSION.
suddenlyitsobvious 2 months ago
Pfft. All (minority) liberational struggles are designed, set up and controlled by the elite from A to Z. They've done it with women, proletarians, blacks, gays, always using the same principles, always changing many facets of society in the process that exceed the actual issue, never solving the root problems, never delving into the core issues, it's all about 'FIGHT THE OPPRESSOR!!! EQUALITY!!! RIGHTS!!!'
These monolithic liberational struggles serve to collapse many of society's...
suddenlyitsobvious 2 months ago
this guy is dealing in EVIDENCE.
jackxbf1 2 months ago
Sistarovat, I feel compelled to call attention to the fact that you are a hateful troll who deserves as much attention as as is necessary for amused and pitying dismissal. Otherwise, the Baldwin speech preceding this was heartfelt and moving. Buckley on the other hand is clearly in love with himself and the sound of his own voice.
af2500 2 months ago
@salishaw Okay, Hebrews then. So, you're saying the reason blacks seem to be incapable of succeeding is because they are at a cultural disadvantage? Sorry, but that doesn't fly.
Sistarovat 3 months ago
@Sistarovat You're unable to comprehend. Look up the word socialization. By the way, Hebrew is a language not a race of people. You're making stuff up and that's why you can't be taken seriously.
salishaw 3 months ago
@salishaw Environmental factors and cultural socialization haven't seemed to keep Asians and Jews from overachieving. Sure, blacks can certainly be proud of their success, but it pales in comparison to other groups. African people simply aren't intellectually or morally up to par with other races or ethnicities. It is this and this alone which has kept them behind everyone else. I'm not saying they are inferior human beings. Look at the NBA, they're good at sports at least.
Sistarovat 3 months ago
@Sistarovat Most Asian ideologies, have greatly affected Asian cultural socialization, therefore offering an environmental agent that has greatly affected their psyche. There is no comparison when you have these vast social differences.
salishaw 3 months ago
@Sistarovat Very poetic of you, or should I say simple mentality of the utmost. Jews are not a racial group, but rather a religious one. Asians in this country, although not entirely are products of dictatorial environments of Communism and or other ideologies of religiosity of variant degrees. There is no comparison when you have these vast social differences. Your racist behavior is bleeding all over YOUTUBE. It's good to know the truth about you.
salishaw 3 months ago
@salishaw I'm not racist and you really don't seem to know the definition of the word racist. Neither you nor the American Psychological Association seem to be able to explain why the negro race doesn't seem to be able to succeed and achieve like Asians and Whites. You know blacks do not achieve the academic success that Jews, Whites, and Asians achieve although they have the same advantages. I've lived around blacks my entire life, I don't need a psychologist to tell me about black people.
Sistarovat 3 months ago
Comment removed
salishaw 3 months ago
@Sistarovat First you argued that genetically that Blacks were unable to learn the same as Whites, then you argued statistically Blacks were unsuccessful more than Whites. None of your arguments were provided with sound facts. The American Anthropology Association is a group of scientist of superior merit, who have exhausted a great deal of research on an academic level that is it recognized world wide.
salishaw 3 months ago
@Sistarovat Statistically you never compare racial groups who have different social environments and smaller percentages. You'll never arrive at a conclusive accurate result. Asians are more successful than Whites academically, but it's not an accurate result, due to social environmental factors. Does this mean Asians are more successful and are genetically smarter than Whites, it's inconclusive.
salishaw 3 months ago
@Sistarovat You have to accept environmental factors and cultural socialization. Blacks have achieved a great deal of success in America and it's something that can be proud of.
salishaw 3 months ago
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@Sistarovat I would be apt to believe what you say, if you could provide scientific facts from an academic perspective, but you failed to do so. You haven't proved anything and you make yourself come across as a racist. You've articulated a racist point of view using 18th century racism, which doesn't hold water today.
salishaw 3 months ago
@salishaw Google "black-white IQ differences flawlesslogic", "grad rates between blacks and whites widening huffingtonpost", and "black college graduation rates inch higher jbhe". No, I don't think white skin has anything to do with it anymore than Asians squinted eyes help them to achieve better academically than caucasians. Your brain isn't in the pigment of your skin. But physical characteristics do vary based on ethnicity. However, those physical characteristics aren't the changes themselves
Sistarovat 3 months ago
@Sistarovat There are no universally accepted definitions of either race and intelligence in academia. A vast study is required to make a determination and the evidence is inconclusive from four major areas of study. The areas of psychology, anthropology, biology and sociology are used by academia. These areas of discipline were not explored or used by Daniel Seligman, rather he used his own applications of mathematics and 18th century scientific racism. aaanet.org/stmts/race.htm
salishaw 3 months ago
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salishaw 3 months ago
@Sistarovat The official position of the American Anthropology Association is that intelligence cannot biologically be determined by race. The American Psychological Association has stated that there is even less empirical support for genetic definition. Physical characteristics only show the differences in physical appearance, but nothing to do with intelligence. It's your racist imagination and or whim. read - aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm
salishaw 3 months ago
@salishaw We don't need statistics to tell us that, that's common knowledge. There are more graduates of every race because there are far more colleges today. That's like saying, statistics show that there are more college football teams today than there were 120 years ago. Statistics also show that no other ethnic group succeeds less in academics than negroid peoples. How do you explain that if it's not something genetical?
Sistarovat 3 months ago
@Sistarovat You're espousing some unfounded hypotheses, scientific racism doctrine from the 18th century, which has no academic merit. There's no scientific data to support this racist doctrine. As I suspected early on from our dialogue, you suffer from a racial fear. Inculcated doctrine of hate because of some whimsical fallacies from 18th century perverted philosophers
salishaw 3 months ago
@Sistarovat . Simple mentality is mere waste. Please bring factual sound proofs of substantial merit. Now it's apparent, you've been socialized to believe your superior because of white skin. The issue is one of human behavior and you're part of the problem.
salishaw 3 months ago
@salishaw Kennedy's election was only controversial to Bible-believing Christians who understood properly the danger of having a Catholic who might be controlled by the Vatican in the White House. But, by sitting down with Protestants and Evangelicals, he laid those fears to rest and he ended up getting more or their votes than Nixon. The idea that Anglo-Saxon Protestants kept anyone who was not like them down from achieving here all the way until the 60s is mythology.
Sistarovat 3 months ago
@salishaw I agree that proper education difinitely helps. But blacks have received proper education for over 120 years. If you don't want to count pre-integration as a "proper education, then blacks have had the same opportunities and even moreso than whites (b/c they're minorities) for the past fifty years. How long do you think it will take to bring them up the the achievement level of say...Asians? another 50? 100 years of "proper education"?
Sistarovat 3 months ago
@Sistarovat More specifically proper education inculcated from the perspective of middle class, suburban socialization would produce better results, and this has been proven among examples of Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell. Inner city, ghetto trauma only perpetuates the hideous behavior often shown on mainstream media outlets. Some of the Black population has success although they are only 12 percent.
salishaw 3 months ago
@Sistarovat Unfortunately poor education from ineffective schools systems with a combination of poor parenting has aided in the continued social issues, plagued not only by Blacks, but also among poor uneducated Whites and Latinos. Asians are small in numbers overall and Whites are a large majority. Your examples are statistically skewed and don't provide the overall picture.
salishaw 3 months ago
@Sistarovat Statistics also prove that we now have a higher percentage of college graduates among Blacks than we did 120 years ago. The issue is not a matter of color, as you seem to be more concern with the color of skin, rather than advancement of good behavior among all people.
salishaw 3 months ago
@salishaw That's nonsense. Kennedy didn't change anything for anybody. Native Americans were poor and underpriviliged, but a Native American managed to become Vice-President in 1928 under Herbert Hoover. He didn't need a Civil Rights Act or any kind of Equal Rights Act to help him "achieve equality".
Sistarovat 3 months ago
@Sistarovat Sure it makes sense. Kennedy's controversial election, because of his Catholic background certainly changed the mindset of many Americans in a time when it was not acceptable. American Indians are plagued with social issues today and live off the government on government sanctioned reservations all over the country.
salishaw 3 months ago
@Sistarovat Barack Obama becoming the president will not solve the issue of Black Americans, much like some Indian American in the 1920s becoming president will not solve theirs. The issue is one of behavioral socialization. You're missing the point. We all agree big government for any people will not solve the issue. Again, it's proper education and proper socialization, which will remove the issue of destructive behavior.
salishaw 3 months ago
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salishaw 3 months ago
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@Sistarovat Blame your government for the issue of government sanctioned programs for any people (White, Indian or Black) that take away from tax payers dollars. Don't blame the color of skin, blame your government. The issue should be one of methodology of educating it's masses to be self sufficient. That's worth blaming. Who cares about skin color? What can you do for your country and your society is the real question?
salishaw 3 months ago
Okay, now I'm confused. I thought Baldwin was the gay one.
fishhead06 4 months ago
Let's face it folks, the Irish, Italians, and Germans had it. The negroes just didn't. After 50 years of government forced equality, the American negro is still the poorest, most dumbed down, most criminal, and most illigitimate member of any race that inhabits the U.S. of A.
Sistarovat 4 months ago
@Sistarovat It's not a matter of skin color and your examples, Irish, Italians and Germans are mere ethnicity, shared by a different heritage, opposite of Anglo-Protestant Americans. All whites are not equal, as the Irish and Italians were the bottom of the social status structure up until the 1960s. Elected president Kennedy changed the social climate for Irish and Italian commoners. Those identified as Irish, Italians, Catholic's were consider undesirables by the naysayers.
salishaw 3 months ago
@Sistarovat Human socialization, societal structure dictates behavior patterns, and are the key to behavioral development. Government programs of forced equality will not eradicate reckless behavioral socialization. Proper education is the solution to solving the socialization issue.
salishaw 3 months ago
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salishaw 3 months ago
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@Sistarovat Whether you agree with his political prowess or not, Colin Powell is one example of at least good education and proper socialization.
salishaw 3 months ago
Let's face it folks, the Irish, Italians, and Germans had it. The negroes just didn't. After 50 years of government forced equality, the American nigger is still the poorest, most dumbed down, most criminal, and most illigitimate member of any race that inhabits the U.S. of A.
Sistarovat 4 months ago
Also what the irish and italians had that blacks didn't have was simple perseverance. The freed blacks had their will broken a long time ago.They survived slavery technically but they were dead on the inside.
mmawilldesha 5 months ago
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alexmcvey 5 months ago
Although I found Mr. Buckley to be utterly obnoxious, boring and decidedly no match for the oratotrial skills of Mr. Baldwin, I did agree with some of his allusions as to responsibility for inequities endured by Black Americans & how those inequties must be dealt with. Since slavery's end, successful Blacks have not been as instrumental in assisting their brethren as was necessary. Too often, they became intoxicated by delusions of grandeur and egotistical fantasies re: their superiority.
kweju3 5 months ago
@kweju3 Another problem faced by freed Blacks was mindset. They internalized their social status and couldn't simply shake it off and adapt to White society. A sense of being "lesser than" followed with them as they left the plantations. Thus, they "waited for godot" who never came to guide them to success in a world foreign to them. Subsequently, many fell prey to a legacy of believing in their own inferiority which was passed on to their children. As Buckley said, it is a very complex issue.
kweju3 5 months ago
@kweju3 That is indeed a truth my brotha that some black folk back then were very unsure and suspicious of their newfound place in the world, though in title only, but allow me to expand on that by saying that the forces of which they were subjected to just moments ago also played an instrumental part in their hesitation to move on as the mindset of the plantation owner was not or had not as you put it been able to "move on". So though their titles had changed their conditions were unchanging
sthomps1 2 months ago
@sthomps1 And the beat goes on. Sadly, this country fails to delve into the subject of slavery and its impact on our culture. There is a fear to face its consequences. My mind continues to recoil at a quote by Harriet Tubman which pointed to a power which reverberates through time: "I freed a thousand slaves, and I could have freed a thousand more, if only they "knew" they were slaves." My soul trembles. Beliefs shackle more permanently than chains. Peace Bro
kweju3 2 months ago
@legalman 1980 - "gangsta rap". That is an interesting point of view, please elaborate.
10101110101111111111 6 months ago
@legalman 1980 - So your saying that in 1965 the white community agreed to fully embrace the negro in America? That in 1965 work began to fully integrate the negro into all aspects of American society? Your saying that from 1965 to the early 1990s that the white majority in America was working as hard and as fast as it could to improve the schools, housing, and employment options for the negro, specifically the poor negro and despite all the white man's generous help, the negro developed
10101110101111111111 6 months ago
@TaskForceSixTwoSix - Should one of those people join the civil rights movement it is certainly probable that they would lose some of that hatred with improved understanding of those that were their oppressors.
@legalman 1980 - I want you to reread your own post and focus specifically on the statement before the Ad hominem attack , "...black culture would devolve into beginning in the 1990s with Gangsta Rap music and its influence on white kids becoming "wiggers,"..."
10101110101111111111 6 months ago
@TaskForceSixTwoSix - within their group that hates the majority? Are you saying that those of Jewish descent that survived in Nazi Germany should have not one among them that has any hatred whatsoever in their heart for that blond, blue eyed German walking past them on the street?
10101110101111111111 6 months ago
@TaskForceSixTwoSix - It's good to see your reading, but you should read a bit more before you post. Your understanding of history and your grasp of logic are both flawed. I do though enjoy the argument that since some blacks hate whites and join the civil rights movement initially due to this hatred that the movement has been hijacked. Is it your understanding that a group of people that are hated by the majority for decade upon decade, century upon century should have not one person
10101110101111111111 6 months ago
@ TaskForceSixTwoSix - What a load of racist bullshit.
boioioioioioing 8 months ago 14
@boioioioioioing Amen.
LesCascadeuses 8 months ago
If you could go back in time to 1965, go to this debate, and show these ignorant white people what the urban black culture would devolve into beginning in the 1990s with Gangsta Rap music and its influence on white kids becoming "wiggers," then everyone in that room would be scared shitless of them and instantly vote in favor of Buckley. The whiney homosexual Baldwin would probably have a heart attack then instead of dying in 1987. All you'd have to do is show them MTV shows.
legalman1980 9 months ago
A lot of you people bashing Buckley aren't educated enough to understand the subtle points he was making.
In reality, his side won the debate. Especially when judged from the vantage point of the modern day. It just didn't seem that way due to the biased crowd and presenters.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
The points made by the other side were absurd. Acting as if the American economy and nation was built by blacks is ridiculous. They picked cotton, did chores for rich people and did other such menial tasks. They act as if white people were just sitting on a porch sipping iced tea - when they weren't whipping hard working black slaves of course - for all of American history.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
And those efforts were primarily conducted in the Deep South - a tiny part of the country. There was barely any black slave presence in the rest of America. And today, the wealthiest parts of America are in areas where black slaves barely even existed. And the Deep South is relatively poor by American standards.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
It was especially outrageous when Baldwin whined about murder, rape and racism. Look at the crime statitsics. A whopping 40,000 white females are raped by black males every single year in America. In compariosn, only about 10 black females are raped by white males. Blacks also commit an astonishing 85% of violent crime in America despite only being about 12% of the population. And black on white crime is far, far more pervasive than the reverse.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
And blacks are EXTREMELY racist. Look no further than the 2008 election where an astonishing 99% of black voters voted for Obama purely based on race - and they were perfectly open and proud of doing so. So what he's accusing whites of doing to blacks, blacks are in fact doing to whites and always have.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
Buckley also raises the excellent point that black failure is their own doing and not the result of white discrimination or racism. He correctly pointed out that other ethnic minorities in America flourish. That's become even more clear as asians in America actually have higher standards of living, higher grades, higher incomes, commit less crime and have higher IQs than whites. How is that possible if there's some supposed white conspiracy to oppress non-whites?
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
The real reason blacks struggle in America is the same reason they struggle everywhere else - they have the lowest IQs in the world. Academics have known that for decades. You just aren't allowed to talk about it because it goes right to the heart of explaining black faliure.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
The biased crowd also laughed off the statistics that blacks in America have almost always had it relatively great here. Their standards of living are far higher than they would be had they remained in their native Africa. So they've benefitted tremendously from being brought here as slaves.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
If you want to see how these blacks would cope without white leadership and civilization, just look at Liberia. It's a country in Africa founded by America for the purpose of reestablishing former black American slaves in their own homeland which they could govern and develope. And as a result, the average income in Liberia is $2 a day... THAT'S why blacks are so poor in America and every other place in the world where they live.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
They don't live in poor ghettos because whites are forcing them to live there. They live in poor ghettos because they just aren't very intelligent. Chinese Americans also live in ghettos. Yet they're prosperous and safe there. Why? Because East Asians have the same IQ levels as whites. So it's clearly a lack of black intelligence which condemns them to eternal poverty - not white oppression.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
Baldwin was also ignorant of black history. We merely purchased blacks who were ALREADY slaves in Africa. Blacks weren't just rounded up in nets by white slave traders in Africa. Arab muslims have been invading, colonizing, raping, murdering and enslaving blacks since the founding of islam. They enslaved far more blacks than white Europeans ever did. It's just that nobody knows about it due to the lack of education I mentioned at the start of my comment.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
The reality about black slavery in America is that it was a small part of the human slave trade. And not all that traumatic. Only %5 to %15 of the European slave trade of black Africans went to America. The majority went to South America and the Caribbean. And the blacks that were shipped to America were treated relatively well and humanely - for slave standards.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
And of course blacks don't have the monopoly on claiming victim slave status. Many millions of white Christian Europeans were also enslaved by muslims. My Slavic (short for slave) ancestors in Europe were enslaved and abused by the muslim Turks for centuries. Do you see white people bitching about it, though? Or using it as an excuse for current day failings? Nope.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
Buckley also made a fantastic point when he warned about these supposed "equality" movements being hijacked by those who hate whites and who will implement systematic and legalized "reverse discrimination" (really it's just racist, anti-white discrimination). That is indeed exactly what took place as a result of the civil rights movement.
So laugh at and deride Buckley all you want. He was right.
TaskForceSixTwoSix 9 months ago
@TaskForceSixTwoSix Bullshit, Frank Tannenbaum, a South American specialist, pointed to the striking differences between Brazilian and American slavery. The feudal, Catholic society of Brazil had a legal and religious tradition which accorded the slave a place as a human being in the hierarchy of society. Slaves in South America and Caribbean had more rights than American slaves. Nathan Glazer, an american sociologist, said that American slavery was the worst form of slavery in recored history.
mmawilldesha 5 months ago 3
@mmawilldesha ah, african american exceptionalism
conucoheights 1 month ago
@conucoheights Not really that comment was directed at someone who was pretty much trying to justify american slavery by saying that we were treated better and I had information that I felt refuted that claim. So please keep in mind I was just responding and I didn't mean to offend anyone.
mmawilldesha 1 month ago
@mmawilldesha please read a book or two on the haitian revolution and slavery in the dominican republic. then go read slavery in colombia and peru. that brazillian nonesense is their version of whitewashing history that negro liberals are too eager to embrace. i'll even give you a hint, follow the sugar.
conucoheights 1 month ago
@conucoheights I will definitely keep your comments in mind when I return to the bookstore or I go to the libary but what is wrong with being liberal?
mmawilldesha 1 month ago
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conucoheights 1 month ago
@mmawilldesha what's wrong with being an ideology? - you're gonna have to crack that nut yourself homie. you can start with "the death of the liberal class" and "the dark side of the renaissance" -
"i peep at the ways of the streets, and stay awake to the ways of the world cause sh!t is deep"
conucoheights 1 month ago
@conucoheights That being said I do feel that, and this is my opinion, that each population of slaves and slave descents had its own challenges and each has a history that is unique that separates them from the other populations of slaves and slave descents. Now thats just what I believe I don't know for sure whether or not that is true but it just seems that way to me.
mmawilldesha 1 month ago
@TaskForceSixTwoSix In Brazil they didn't brake up families the way they did in America, and they would even gave their slaves ways to earn money to buy their freedom. For the most part most of the free slaves in America were runaways, very very few were set free by their masters, and they had laws in place back then that made it hard for the owner of slaves to free his slaves even if he wanted to. I hate bringing up America's horrible past but you people need some history lessons.
mmawilldesha 5 months ago
@TaskForceSixTwoSix Now explain white trash failure. Why are they still living in trailer parks and shacks after eight generations and having had no social impediments to the "American Dream"?
kafenwar 6 months ago
Buckley's self-styled accent is the most pompous and arrogant tone I've ever heard. And ending the speech by saying that, if black Americans revolt against the system of oppression, the white Americans will fight them, and conquer them, for their own good, is the same attitude that Baldwin criticized when talking about being a ward of the state and an object of Christian charity. Buckley clearly thinks that blacks are repressed for their own good and that they are children to be cared for.
matthewstands 9 months ago
@matthewstands It was a shit time and buckley was a conservative...
xtrmsprts 9 months ago
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Buckley was brilliant. The difficulty one has in accepting his point of view is that most people don't want to be labeled a racist for any apparent hesitation to jump on the civil rights bandwagon. After all, only a racist would not be in favor of civil rights. But ultimately Buckley and Baldwin both wanted to see racial equality. They differed only in their prescriptions. Baldwin speaks to the heart while Buckley speaks to the mind. Both speeches were very impressive. Buckley's was brilliant.
alanlundell 10 months ago
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alanlundell 10 months ago
Listening to Buckley is like eating bad food....it's not nourishing and makes you want to throw up....
elizabethfaraone 10 months ago
what a pompous ass... What is his point? What is he suggesting... He tried to say early on that, we all work hard, and our compounded effort and achievements are not due exclusively to negroes, therefore creating a strawman, a false argument which noone has arrived at.
Noahkk12 10 months ago
Buckley was unaccountably banal here. Especially in contrast to the standing ovation debater Baldwin. Buckley's usually good though...
emerset 1 year ago
@emerset Its very difficult to defend an indefensible position.
ramonalejandrosuare 7 months ago
@ramonalejandrosuare its amazing that some people would attempt the impossible though.
VideoWin1 2 months ago
such a riveting debate! The 60's was my decade! Such a shame I happened to be born 20 years later.
TRESBELA 1 year ago