White culture: have respect for Native American culture and please educate yourself before assuming you know everything about it. Native American culture: not all white people are like the ones in this video
the ways of d indigenous people of the world r not religious systems but pathways 2 align 1's conciousness with the conciousness of world we live in which has natural intelligence,allowing and teaching all different life forms feeding of each other 2 live in harmony, its not ownership its belonging its d middle way, were everything gives of its self so there can be balance everything communicates ceremony is communication with d living world it says i understand what i receive now i give back
I was never trying to represent white people and do not justify any "white" actions taken. Just because I am white doesn't mean I stole anybody's land or culture. I disagree that it is hypocritical, it's actually just the modernisation of thinking, white people change like anyone else, so they can realise what their ancestors did was bad and quote Native Americans. I also wish that Native Americans were less generalised and more tribally considered. You still can't copyright a God.
You say "stole our land" and "steal our religion". How do you own land or religion? You cannot own the Earth, or own a god. This is what Native Americans were trying to tell the white people all along.
Different Native groups are the proprietors of their specific cultural legacy. There is no argument to be had, especially given white people's historical approach to the variety of Native heritage. You can't own land? Okay, white folks, time to forfeit your land claims. Funny how now that whites are the majority in the U.S. and hold the majority of positions of power do Native quotes/exclamations of wisdom/etc matter all of a sudden. Let's call it white hypocrisy.
I won't buy anything which is marketed as 'native american'. I have lots of my own culture thank you very much. I think that's what is wrong with the world. We have moved on so fast most of us have lost our way. We look to inspiriations like the indigenous people of America. People who, although have problems, still try and cling on to their roots. I don't think this is a case of white or any others trying to 'take', they just desire what they don't have but need badly to function. Very sad :(
i think some native people need to remember that it is our way 2 give of our self 4 the benefit of the whole, we chose to come into suffering to teach the world whats wrong with it, the problem is not white people its the capitalistc system thats been forced on them 2, the enemy is ignorance and self importance (by what authority can someone tell someone else what they can and cant do?) religious control through cultural identity this is not the way of the earth, trust share the whole benefits
this is just discriminory, no they shouldn't lie the way tthey do, on the other hand it's good that some white people embrace, live and respect the indian culture. If they ar only 1/16 first nations then thats the indian inside him trying to live, now is the time when all nations are together, the medicine wheel is comlete. Don't hang onto your anger and hatred, abandon it. Soon the world that the white man has created will crumble and the life style of our ancestors will be the only way of life
this was some made from some pissed off indian, anything that isnt some how FUCK THE WHITE MAN she wont put on here, using their name with no official membership is major disrespectful, but what can you expect from the average whitee, you can only claim to be part of a tribe if you have family in the nation and you have or can offer something to community, and i dont mean BLood i mean those you love, and no shit you can be part of the tribe if your BLood
"I was an Indian in a previous life.......Well you're white now" HA damn right, non-natives leave us and our culture alone, you took everything away and now just let us have what we have left
It's kinda like a big brother complaining that their little brother is copying them.
Humans, like all animals, are creatures of imitation. So if you don't want anyone to imitate from you, then either hide yourself away, or provide a path towards real understanding of your ways. (continued >> 1 of 4)
The fact of the matter is, in the same way that the traditions and wisdom should not be sold, they are also not truly owned by anyone, nor should any good intentioned, respectful person be denied access to that knowledge. Tribalism, like every human culture that has ever existed, has it's facets of elitism.
The favored individuals, born into the right family, with the right money, power, or with the right charisma, are on the inside. I have witnessed medicine carrying men act in very selfish ways, but they are the guy in power, and everyone falls in line around them. Though I am not Indian, I have been shown by Nature, while visiting a Res. that I was most welcome, and was duly gifted tremendous blessing by the land. The fact is that much of the Native spiritual practices and beliefs
are the natural result of recognizing and honoring one's connection to Nature. We are all on that path, and westerners have largely lost that connection, so naturally look to Native peoples in recognition that for some, that connection has been preserved and honored. So before Native people are too eager to "own" their spirituality, I would ask you "from whom is that path given?" Maybe you learned from a person, but ultimately, that path and the truth, is from the One Source.
Isn't it? Is your creator different than anyone else's? Of course not. Then how can you claim any TRUE path to be your own? If it is a legitimate path, than it MUST, intrinsically, be EVERYONE'S. Now, I'm not talking about specifics, 'cause on that level, we each have our own path, but the basic truths, we all share. When "someone" comes to you for help, that person is another "you", in need. It is our responsibility to respond to that need, to the best of our ability.
As a Navajo Native who was raised on a reservation, I'm laughing at this. It's actually pretty sad. White people, go find your own culture and leave ours alone. You must have had one sometime. Every race does. Stop assimilating or possessing everyone elses. Trace your roots back to Scottish, Irish, French, British, Roman, Greek etc..... Yours is out there. Search for it.
As long as people are genuine, act with honor and respect, then that should be enough regardless of a person's color or genetics. I believe that shamanic knowledge should be more accessible.
If you research cultural anthropology and historic academic materials in many cultures shamans are chosen by spirits. They do not choose or appoint themselves to become one. Most who are chosen to become one do so with with dread and resistance. Shamans (from a historic point) serves the community.
Most people would cringe to know that shamans also practiced both benevolent healing but also malefic sorcery (usually against neighbouring tribes or to enforce tribal laws).
All humans are descendants of tribal ancestry and nearly all tribes practice shamanism. Us white people are extremely removed from our tribal ancestry and our ancient culture because it was destroyed by roman and christian empires who then assimilated us into their own culture. Our spirituality has been oppressed for so long that when we become aware of that void in our souls we search for something sacred and the tribes of these lands are the first things we find. But THIS is not justifiable...
All humans are descendants of tribal ancestry and nearly all tribes practice shamanism. Us white people are extremely removed from our tribal ancestry and our ancient culture because it was destroyed by roman and christian empires who then assimilated us into their own culture. Our spirituality has been oppressed for so long that when we become aware of that void in our souls we search for something sacred and the tribes of these lands are the first things we find. But THIS is not justifiable...
All humans are descendants of tribal ancestry and nearly all tribes practice shamanism. Us white people are extremely removed from our tribal ancestry and our ancient culture because it was destroyed by roman and christian empires who then assimilated us into their own culture. Our spirituality has been oppressed for so long that when we become aware of that void in our souls we search for something sacred and the tribes of these lands are the first things we find. But THIS is not justifiable...
I have some white heritage and some Cherokee heritage, which I really know nothing about. But I am from Oklahoma, so I just described 80% of the population there. I don't want to be disrespectful, but I am curious about that part of my family. Even though I look white, I want to know about that part of me. Does that make me a fake white person? We have things to learn from each other, that we never did. Does the earth care if you have white feet or red feet, when you walk on her?
I find it ironic how my grandfather left the rez to go to michigan so he could pass himself off as a white man because back than if you were ndn you were considered a second class citizen and looked down on. Now it seems like all the white people are trying to pass themselves off as natives.
IMO anyone descendent from northern Europe and Asia,should be allowed to practice as a Medicine man/woman or a Shaman.In all reality Native americans aren't truly native to the Americas,since they are descendants from the people that crossed the Beringia from Siberia to Alaska..they were Asians,and Northern/Eastern European.
Europeans aren't native to Europe seeing how they descended from an African population that migrated into the present-day Middle East. Oops, I guess the BNP and Europe for European folks haven't got a claim to squat because they're not native to Europe at all. Butt hurt that a non-NDN can't practice specific customs that aren't theirs?
I (certain) Whites who are into this thing view religion as 'Man Made'.
And therefor some revise Native ceremonies etc as they see fit.
On the other hand most Native Amer. view religion (thiers) as from a 'Divine Source". And therefor is held sacred and 'fixed' (unless the gods or whatever gives revelations or 'come down' to say something otherwise).
you know what fuck you ass hole indians... first they came to take our land and then ... thats bull shit. if anything the white is the ascended. fuck wisdom over knowladge. the earth .... fuck the earth it will die and we will have to move on to another planet. we cant sustain a life on earth forever. i am so sick of this bullshit... we'll need the smarts fo the white man to ba able to travel through space. and you can have this planet..
If you feel in your heart for the First Nations, stay beside them and fight their causes, don`t milk them! Stand up for their rights to practise their own traditions and ways, raise your voice against the racism they have to deal with. We whites have the power to practice any kind of religion and traditions, we know how to walk and survive in the white mans world. Use that power and help, instead of wack around stealing what is theirs.
(con) this is not cultural misappropriation. It is evolution. Religion and spirituality evolve and being a white person doesn't change that. Think I am ridiculous if you want to but Great Spirit doesn't see a white man. Great Spirit sees a human. Period.
@1NX9 (1) I have yet to meet a Native American that calls themselves "Native Indian" and (2) I have yet to meet a Native Amerian who doesn't believe in a Great Spirit.
I am part Cherokee and can prove it bit I am a "white American." to say that I cannot go back to my roots and look for my truth in my heritage is to say that I gave no right to be who I am. This is ridiculous. I may never be trained S a Shaman but I can explore the Cherokee culture and adapt what resonates with me. This is not cultural
first off, the word shamanism stems from Siberia. "Wikipedia - Many Wiccans believe in magic, a force they see as being capable of manipulation through the practice of witchcraft or sorcery. Some spell it "magick", a variation coined by the influential occultist Aleister Crowley." therefore your arguments are invalid and don't let Christan's fool you Wicca is not dark or evil it is our spiritual right,as is anyone elses, no set of ideologies or knowledge belongs to one group or race of people
@DLSNiiganii Ya it is quite frankly...I am genuinely Metis and I choose to live white because I was brought up that way...I wasn't brought up Native so why would I bother with it, now...
As long as you dont sale the conection to spirit, no matter in what way, dont sell the pipe, dont sell the cristals, dont sell the drum etc, I think everyone is really just the same and can do the same things! We are all one with all that is right? Whats the difference? I dont need a title, like shaman, or druid etc, I'm just my spiritual self, doing my own thing! Why all the division???
i see no one buying names here. they just give themselves names and good for them! i do! i don't care if others approve or not, as it is not about them. this video by its very title is just racist propaganda. they are saying that all white people can't be shamans. no one needs to leave anything alone. no one owns a culture. i am part native american and part celtic. i don't own either culture. and i am proud to be from the great melting pot. mix whatever you want; take truth from everywhere!
"Part-Native American" Is that a white code for "Wannabe Indian with no Native upbringing but wish to add my two cents in and it won't come out as white privilege speak if I claim Native ancestry"? Sure sounds like it.
@NopeJPeg oh we have a white code now; you racist fool! and i don't wannabe anything other than what i am. and yes some of my ancestors were native american and most were celtic, and there are some others in there. i am glad to be of mixed blood and thankful i didn't have a native american upbringing, not that my father didn't try. and what is this white privledge you speak of, because i grew up poor thanks! your such a racist fool! there is my two cents and then some!
@NopeJPeg most people who have native blood and are brought up white like myself say they are part native american...instead of saying my mother was of native descent, but I didn't embrace her culture I wouldn't want to live on a reserve and I think that most Natives are racist toward people who are mixed race whites are more acsepting of them so they live white if they can...I haven't been that lucky, I look mixed race I am therefore constantly confronted with it...
I don't care if any breed lives white so long as they don't decide to take on a Native guise afterward and begin acting like they're Native after not sticking by skins through thick and thin.
@NopeJPeg I think you missed my point...racism is the issue here...no one made you God so you can't decided who does what with their life...I am happy to live in a white world and be mixed race because I wasn't brought up on the reserve so I don't want it but I have friends who were mixed race and brought up on the reserve and it is all they know...that is my point....
@NopeJPeg "Part Native American" means what it says. My great grandmother's mom was a full-blooded Cherokee. Parts of her people helped to settle - and fought against the settlement of - eastern Kentucky. Yes, I know this to be true and have docs to prove it. Pretty sure you probably have all kinds of heritage - most of America does.
@NopeJPeg Let's see if I can clarify this. What I meant was that you probably aren't a "pure blood" of anything. I'm not a "pure-blood Caucasian" in other words, even tho I check "Caucasian" when asked to volunteer my race. I'm English, Irish and Cherokee that I'm aware of and probably have some German in me, as well. I personally think that one can come from 1 white and 1 non-white group and be considered "non-pure-blood." (And I don't think that's a bad thing.)
@NopeJPeg "Full Blooded Indian," perhaps, but NOT "full blooded Hopi" and NOT "full blooded Navajo." But my original thought was more about white people, like myself, who have some Native American blood running their veins.
Funny how that works that say a Chinese national can claim to be FBC yet have parents who can be of any of the 56 ethnic groups in China and not so much as a peep out of most anyone about their claim to FB status yet the same privilege isn't afforded to Indians. FBI is still FBI no matter what the nosebleeds might say. Haters gonna hate.
this is some funny stuff, people buying so called Indian names, my first name is kenneth( it means "Born of Fire" and/or "Handsome" most of these people have names that mean something and don't even know it . lol. there are those who walk with God/Creator and those who dont. BOTTOMLINE. There is Good and Evil in all religions
One thing I notice between American society (in general) and Canadian society (in general) in regards to culture & religion is that Americans view themselves as a "Melting Pot" where as Canadians view themseves as a "Mosaic" (mosaic being seperate, different but equal).
@1NX9 your exact words were "Americans view themselves as a "Melting Pot" where as Canadians view themseves as a "Mosaic" (mosaic being seperate, different but equal)." And most Americans don't think we're all a bunch of candle wax melted up to make a big globby mess. We're actually very individualistic people - it's what makes America, America.
That is not in the same context of what I was refering too.
Canada consider themselves a "Cultural Mosaic". They do not have racial equality problems.
wiki has some good info on the term "Melting Pot"
- The melting pot is a metaphor for a heterogeneous society becoming more homogeneous, the different elements "melting together" into a harmonious whole with a common culture.
@1NX9 (a) wiki is not a credible source. trying quoting it as a source for a college paper and see how quickly your score drops to zilch. (b) no one said canada had racial equality problems. (c) i didn't have an issue with "melting pot" - i had an issue with "seperate but equal." if you want to look something up, look up "kiss my white ass" prick. if you don't want to have a discussion, don't post comments.
@1NX9 It's okay. I may have misread your comment - it's not hard to do - so I apologize, too. I agree that there is definitely a lot of misleading info on Native People.
@1NX9 There's also a lot of misinfo regarding "white" people who look into Native spiritualities, & it bugs me when some people have an issue with that. Not saying that you did, but I took it that way, and I may have been mistaken about that. I think white people have just as much right to research their roots and look into their cultural heritage and find a spirituality that fits them as much as anyone else does. Just b/c they may not have brown skin doesn't mean they aren't of Native origins.
I agree with you. There is also alot of misleading info regarding 'white' people as well. Racism and predjudices occurs with native people as well. It happens with all races and ethnicties.
Not all white people are bad people. Theres good people of all races and ethnicities.
I believe those of European backgrounds should research their roots. There is much to learn.
Alot one can learn from Celtic peoples, Slavic peoples, Scandinavian peoples etc.
irish people were beaten, jailed, and killed for speaking their own language. when they came here they were told that no irish need apply. there were white slaves called indentured servants. everyone's ancestors got a raw deal at one time or another. i don't see the point in playing victim after the fact. we have to get up, dust ourselves off, heal our wounds, and move on down the road to the better life!
a wise man once said give me liberty or give me death! these people are trying to tell people like me that we don't have a right to hold our classes and ceramonies because they don't approve as if i need their approval for anything! how dare they! i don't tell them what to do and i demand the same in return!
everyone's ancestors were stripped of their rights at some point! i have known very wise decent native americans who would be appalled at this video. the people in it are racist and ignorant! they have more right than i do as a gay man because at least they can get married and adopt children. in my own country i am a third class citizen. illegal immigrants can get married but i can't. but all this is besides the point! no one has the right to tell another how to live! freedom or death!
native americans are also not the only culture that have vision quests and other such activities all ancients had it. the celts had many forms of vision questing like the aisling, the immrama, and so on! the imbas forosnei is another form of visioning. where by the quester gets a vision from spiritual ecstasy. The Awen or Imbas is the divine force which flows into all existence and inspires and animates the universe. this force is called on when healing. it is believed to come from the creator!
something else since it was brought up. native americans are not the only culture with sweat lodges nor are they the only ones who know how to do it right. people in east have them, people in russia have them, the druids had them, the turks have had them. it is sad that a few isolated instances of a few people making mistakes is being used as an excuse to condone racism!
with all due respect; in my culture, religion, and belief system everyone can hold whatever kind of ceramonies they need and everyone can do healing. it is as simple as believing in God and letting him work through you and usually the laying on of hands. no one is more special than anyone else and no one is pretending to be anyone other than themselves. you don't know who is being helped or not, as you are not God! medicine people don;t own God, spirit, or ritual! nor does any one race!
it would be like me asking an english person for money and apologies for what their ancestors did to my irish ancestors. it would be evil and arrogant for me to do that! and i don't hold them responsible for what their ancestors did! history is full of sin and sadness. are we going to be subject to those things forever; or are we going to rise above them and evolve?
@lunasol666 lying will not further spiritual development nor will anyone interfering with our freedoms do so! and who needs anyones blessing? we are all humans with divine rights and free will. so many people are trying to impose theirs on everyone elses and it is wrong period! i had a black woman tell me that i should give her money because her ancestors were slaves, and i said so were mine so we should both keep our own money.
@lunasol666 if gifts are part of the way, than why do they have a problem with white teachers getting gifts of money in exchange for their time and efforts to teach people? it is one way or the other it seems! i think black elk would have been sad at this video and its racism. i don't believe anyone owes an apology to anyone for history that happened when they were not alive or for actions that were not theirs! so we will have to agree to disagree on that issue!
@lunasol666 well i will take your prayers and be thankful for them because this video is one of the most horrifically offensive pieces of trash i have ever encountered and i have encountered a lot. every aspect of my humanity is offended by this video. but that is not important. what is important is freedom. all of our freedoms to worship as we choose and not choose! as for apologizing for history that had little or nothing to do with me; where are all the apologies "owed" to the rest of us?
@lunasol666 i never knew anyone who went to those kind of sweat lodges. i am talking about people who went to spirituality classes. and no i have nothing to apologize for to the tribes people as i have never done anything to them. nor can i be sorry that they happened as i didn't do it to them. and the words sorry and apology are bad words. to be sorry is an admission of guilt with no remorse. to apologize means to defend ones wrongful actions. i can feel sorrow that bad things happened to them.
@lunasol666 while i understand what you are saying i have to say that it can be turned around...so we are suppose to buy peace now with gifts as if that makes everything ok? history would say otherwise. i don't want their teachings or need them specifically. i draw inspiration from certain native traditions and my ancestors. but i take wisdom from everywhere i can find it. and that is my divine right as a human being. point is that the people holding these classes have the right to do so!
@lunasol666 yes and the racism goes both ways! as a white man i am so sick of being blamed for everyone elses problems. everyone needs to take responsibility for their own issues now. then is then and now is now everyone needs to stop living in the past!
@lunasol666 i do study history thank you and i removed my own comments because of typos. when i do angry typing i make mistakes lol! and this victim mentality is repugnant. enough is enough! all of our peoples have been slaves at some point in history, all peoples have suffered and been treated less than. it is time to grow up and get over it!
@lunasol666 i have never met a single person who is stupid enough to believe that the people who teach these workshops are people from reservations! i do think this whole thing is insulting to the people who go to the workshops. as if they don't understand what they are paying for! and this is an emotional discussion, because i am disgusted and tired of the racism against white people and prejudice against alternative spirituality!
no one goes to these workshop or classes thinking oh i am going to get tribal teachings in the same way a tribal teacher might teach them. but what are they complaining for anyway; if they don't like the way white people understand their spiritual practices than the simple answer is to teach them themselves to anyone who wants to learn. put up or shut up!
the white people in the video are not trying to rip off anything. they mix cultural practices in their workshops and they don't hide that from the people learning from them. i never met a person who goes to these kind of workshops and doesn't know the white people teaching them are white! who are these people trying to poison by offering people their view of the world? no one that's who!
Heres a thought, get your own culture and stop ripping off someones elses cuz guess what peoples do have their own, I never once said own. Your kind place everything towards ownership, another part of the old colonial bull shit, its about power and control. This video is about stupid and indeed subtley racist and ignorant new age white people and wannabes who are trying to rip off, polute and poison true American Indigenous culture MY culture and that of my other brothers and sisters.
@lion3p0 the white people in the video are not trying to rip off anything. they mix cultural practices in their workshops and they don't hide that from the people learning from them. i never met a person who goes to these kind of workshops and doesn't know the white people teaching them are white! who are these people trying to poison by offering people their view of the world? no one that's who!
@lunasol666 Well I agree with you up to a point, teaching the right stuff okay but I bet they will abuse that knowledge. Most of these people on this video are seeking prophet from our ways, why would we teach them the right ways if they're going to seek prophet from it. That's why we're letting them make fools out of themselves, I mean I would feel stick to my stomach if I did this.
@Tiesto20121 it is racist to assume that before you know people and ignorant! and everyone's time is valuable and they deserve to be paid for their time and efforts. minsters and preachers get paid, doctors get paid, traditionally shamans and medicine men receive goods for services which is payment! it isn't about profit but about earning a living! and everyone has the right to do that. if their life is spent on mundane things or sacred things like healing is irrelevant! you don't own spirit!
@reverendloush It may come off as being mean but sadly that's the truth. Every time I put faith into them they let us down time after time. I know their heart is in the right place but deep down they know they're doing wrong. It gets me mad when people without the gift of healing hold ceremonies and act like they are helping people. That's why I don't trust them. If they want to follow our ways okay but don't try and be someone your not. It's a slap in our faces when we see these.
Celtic and pagans, keep ur religous ceremonies the way they're supposed to be and were, not some assimilated wicca popularity crap, leave ours alone and they r ours,we leave urs alone so leave us alone and that goes for all u people
@lion3p0 no one owns their culture. it is just a stupid idea by ignorant people that anyone can own a culture! and it is a racist thing to say! and people should be free to mix whatever beliefs or practices they so wish! every human being has a divine right to their own path and truth, and if that path is eclectic and influenced by many diverse cultures than good! we should be influenced to some degree by all the truths and wisdom of the world. and any who doesn't like that fact can shut up!
Whatever happened to your "Who can own a tree, who can own a rock" thing? Yet in this video you do nothing but talk about what's "ours" "ours" "ours"! about land that belonged to YOU! You're a bunch of hypocrites!
hey im 1/180th percent cherokee ima go commune with nature and buy myself a name. BAAHAHAHA. Seriiously the best thing white people can do for natives is leave their culture the hell alone.
@imabadking See my video. "Natives" don't OWN that culture. we have our OWN names and OUR OWN connection with nature. You should see my video about it. But until then tho, this is a free country. pull the stick outta your ass.
@allisonforfornsed Actually whenever an artifact is found that is native american, for it to be placed in a museam the local tribe must say "ok". So actually they DO own their culture. I watched your video, something you dont seem to factor in is that NOBODY SAID EUROPEANS DIDNT HAVE SHAMANS OR PAGAN RELIGIONS!!! My comment, and this video are in direct relation to white people who have no native american ancestory selling out a culture that is NOT their own.
@imabadking um the video exactly says that white people are not shamans. the title of the video is white shamans and plastic medicine people ...it is making fun of white people who say they are shamans so your argument here holds no water. and if i find an artifact or a feather than i am keeping it and the tribes and government can zip it! if i find anything sacred it is because the Creator wanted me to find it! it is meant for me!
@reverendloush If you think thats what they are saying then you obviously didnt watch the video...so actually its YOUR argument that holds no water. Please, by all means show me the part where it says white people cant be shamans in their own pagan religions...oh thatr right...it dosent say that. And feel free to keep artifact you find on your own land, but I wouldent tell anyone about it because LEGALLY you have to let the local tribe.
@imabadking i did watch the racist crap video. but i didn't have to because the title says it all! it is just racismmmmmm! so your argument holds no water! and the video does say it several times actually! and i don't care about legally. and i am not likely to find an artifact where i live anyway but if i ever did like on a trip or something i would keep! and i don't have to let the tribes do anything to me...
@imabadking i would rather sit in jail than submit to an unjust law because an unjust law is no law at all! and i don't what they are complaining about they have way more rights and freedoms than i do as a gay man!
@reverendloush These peoples ancestors were stripped of their rights and culture as part of unjust laws, and now they thankfully are regaining some of those things. But you dont see it that way, you think of these people as selfish because they are trying to protect something very close to them, something that they have carefully maintained, and regained after years of oppression. And explain how they hove more rights?
@imabadking really ok than lets leave them alone thats a great idea, lets leave them all alone...hell while we are at it lets take back the little land afforded them and take away what rights they do have as tribes! i agree that sounds like a brilliant idea!
@imabadking native and pagan European beliefs are very similar, i think white people are using native spirituality to reconnect with something that was once a part of their culture, before the Christian massacred them
If you're saying there are no white shamans, u better go check world history. The people of Europe were pagan tribes originally, that lived much like your people did. (before christianity.) "Shamans" can be found all over the world in almost every culture including native European. GO LEARN ABOUT EUROPEAN HISTORY! I get so tired of you brown people acting like you invented "tribe" and "shamanism". You're just afraid to have something in common w/ whites! you're petty & jealous. SWALLOW UR FOOT!
@1NX9 Nope. I do not believe that all brown people think the same way. I have many very dear friends who are "brown"; but they are not racists. It is racist "Brown people" that I am referring to. I use the term "brown people" b/cuz the one trend I've seen among racist brown people, is that their primary racial vendetta, is with anything "white". their are many different types of "brown" people, india, africa, americas; however, such tend to see themselves as one big group, versus "whites".
@1NX9 I would also like to add to the comment I posted a moment ago, in answer to your first question, that there are in fact many people that insist that there are no white shamans, that there never were, and that if they claim to be, they are merely frauds. many such are like these people in the fake plastic shamans video.
I believe they are saying those self profess "shamans" are not 'shamans' of Their people.
(eg Sorta like someone from Nigeria dressing up as Shinto priest, never been trained as Shinto Priest, never exposed to Japanese culture and then going to Japan claiming to be a Japnese Shinto priest. And expecting everyone to accept him as genuine Shinto Priest.)
@1NX9 Well you are right in this case. Unfortunately, I think that american indians are far too rigid about white people learning the natural native ways of this land. They preach about the excellence and rightness of their ways, and complain that the white man's way is destroying this land, and then turn around and greedily condemn any white man who desires to exemplify indian ways in his life. I heard that the famous and very honorable Leonard Crow Dog, Lakota (comment continued in next)
@1NX9 Tribe, is training a white non-indian man( i forgot his name) in the medicine ways. This I truly admire. As for people trying to sell shamanism, I don't like that at all.
@1NX9 look at all the comments here, they are all about "white people"...are all "white people the same to you? do all "white people" think the same way?
chill out ...she didn't wanted to insult anyone...
@1NX9 the title uses "white shamans" in a derogatory way, the neolithic and shamanism was global and all of prehistory was filled with shamanism, the native americans, africans and other coloured people just stayed in prehistory, whether they are individuals or not is irrelevant when talking about groups.
Native Americans are Not disputing that shamanism is global.
The issue is why is there so many whites pretending to be Native Ameircan medicine men. Its not Afro Americans, its not Asians, its not Latinos that are mainly doing this. Why is it mainly white middle class? Why is it mainly middle age? I believe an element of cultural fetishism and Noble Savage (fueled by Hollywood) that is partly doing this.
@1NX9 Whites are denied their own culture, almost any reference or pride to it is considered racism. So when they realize (at middle age, when the kids r out) that consumerism really isn't the thing either, they go on a spiritual voyage to try and find what IS the 'thing'. And sadly they just end up following hollywood bullshit straight to cons that take advantage of their life long ignorance to the real thing. Maybe, they just got what they deserved.
I can see where these people are coming from. Honestly who isn;t fascinated by the native Americans?... Though, with them being of european decent, I would suggest that they research the Shamanic or native religions of Europe (Druidry, Asatru, Hellinism-etc)
were here were queer, get use to it lol! i think i will start a new mantra and put it on shirts....proud to be plastic, plastic is real! lol this is a proper snub to these racists!
i am proud to be different than the natives in this video. and by the way everyone born in america is a native american and there is no such thing as first nations peoples. every race is as old as every other race according to my faith.
oh please i have taken nothing from them. nor did any white person alive today! what happened in the past was tragic but it had nothing to do with any of us alive today including the natives. i am so sick and tired of this victim mentality people have. get over it and grow up and move on like the rest of us. no one alive stole your land. dead men did. so now what are you going to do? sit and play victim forever?
@5p34x White people underage 30 in the USA are only 22 percent of America. - White people being born childhood teens 20s are only 22 percent of America. - When the older Whites in America die off in 30 years White in America will only be 22 percent of the American Population - Mexicans and Indians numbers in the USA are getting higher why whites numbers in the USA are droping ---- call me a Nazi you have no argument do you ?
it is true...white are the minority now! and i am the biggest minority of all; white, male, christian mystic, and gay! so people can just kiss it. if we are going to play minority victim i win since i have been victimized my whole life for being gay! oh and i am a child abuse survivor so let the victim games continue! grow up people! shame on you for staying a victim! so yes we can thanks for saying that!
if you really belived in you spirit ways you wouldnt need to get on here a get mad at people for sayn there mind. how would you like it if people took the way you pray and made a joke of it like i see the non native people do with OUR ways im not talking about all ways just what was givin 2 us by god and not all non natives do that thier are some real sincire people that pray with us n mean it but for the most part the wont understand it as we do its in our blood put there by god
and since when did any human being need credentials to seek spirit, hold ritual, or tell about their beliefs and experiences! that is just a stupid thing to say!
none of the people in the vide are claiming to be native americans and they are visibly white! and the video is entitled white shamans and plastic medicine men which proves it is just racist propaganda against white people! so you have no real argument! there is no such thing as plastic medicine men, just people who other people disagree with their ideas and ways. that doesn't make one right and the other wrong!
i understand and we can just agree to disagree with each other on some things! but again if i want to wear cloths from another culture that is my right. and there are lots of beliefs of native americans in literature that mirror my european ancestors beliefs; for example "black elk speaks" is a wonderful treasure trove of inspirations for spirituality and ritual, another document is the letter to the president by chief seattle which shows native philosophy at its best!
Wearing sarongs & saris SOMETIMES hardly makes you pretend that you are from India. Are you calling yourself Indian? Are you claiming Indian ancestry to the public? Are you claimning to be some guru from India? Are you claiming to do Hindu religious services to the public (but yet never learnt it from actual Hindus...)?
lol hahaha...well at reiki shares we say namastei and teach certain hindu concepts in our reiki classes does that count? lol finally someone on here who can make me laugh! thanks!
no i never claim to be anything other than what i am, but according to these racists i am not a real shaman because i am white and eclectic. so i can not take anything they say seriously!
@1NX9 said What they are saying is that your not a shaman of THIER people.
well that would be true except they are saying all white shamans are plastic or rather white people can't know the medicine ways as if the great spirit only speaks to them! if they want to tell people on the phone or something that a teacher isn't real than fine, but breaking into classes is just wrong. we could go on like this forever, but the truth is that this video is jut racist propaganda.
White culture: have respect for Native American culture and please educate yourself before assuming you know everything about it. Native American culture: not all white people are like the ones in this video
Brabers37 2 days ago
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intellectualexpat.blogspot.com/2008/09/meet-william-two-feather-native.html
zopi9 3 days ago
the ways of d indigenous people of the world r not religious systems but pathways 2 align 1's conciousness with the conciousness of world we live in which has natural intelligence,allowing and teaching all different life forms feeding of each other 2 live in harmony, its not ownership its belonging its d middle way, were everything gives of its self so there can be balance everything communicates ceremony is communication with d living world it says i understand what i receive now i give back
davethabushfella 2 weeks ago
@D7bestchord
You my not have..."stole anybody's land", but you are guilty of receiving stolen property!
ayosgi 2 weeks ago 2
@NopeJPeg
I was never trying to represent white people and do not justify any "white" actions taken. Just because I am white doesn't mean I stole anybody's land or culture. I disagree that it is hypocritical, it's actually just the modernisation of thinking, white people change like anyone else, so they can realise what their ancestors did was bad and quote Native Americans. I also wish that Native Americans were less generalised and more tribally considered. You still can't copyright a God.
D7bestchord 3 weeks ago
@D7bestchord
Seems "change" only goes so far as quoting and misappopriating and not anything significant in the political spectrum. lol white people, right?
Lakota have a copyright on Lakota culture. If you're not of the community, your intentions are real clear.
NopeJPeg 6 days ago
You say "stole our land" and "steal our religion". How do you own land or religion? You cannot own the Earth, or own a god. This is what Native Americans were trying to tell the white people all along.
D7bestchord 1 month ago
@D7bestchord
Different Native groups are the proprietors of their specific cultural legacy. There is no argument to be had, especially given white people's historical approach to the variety of Native heritage. You can't own land? Okay, white folks, time to forfeit your land claims. Funny how now that whites are the majority in the U.S. and hold the majority of positions of power do Native quotes/exclamations of wisdom/etc matter all of a sudden. Let's call it white hypocrisy.
NopeJPeg 3 weeks ago 4
I won't buy anything which is marketed as 'native american'. I have lots of my own culture thank you very much. I think that's what is wrong with the world. We have moved on so fast most of us have lost our way. We look to inspiriations like the indigenous people of America. People who, although have problems, still try and cling on to their roots. I don't think this is a case of white or any others trying to 'take', they just desire what they don't have but need badly to function. Very sad :(
TheThreeWeavers 2 months ago 2
i think some native people need to remember that it is our way 2 give of our self 4 the benefit of the whole, we chose to come into suffering to teach the world whats wrong with it, the problem is not white people its the capitalistc system thats been forced on them 2, the enemy is ignorance and self importance (by what authority can someone tell someone else what they can and cant do?) religious control through cultural identity this is not the way of the earth, trust share the whole benefits
davethabushfella 2 months ago
@davethabushfella Thank you for this comment. Much of the debate here is evidence of how far we ALL need to go in order to heal as a collective.
leahtaylor83 2 weeks ago
in my tribe we get our name when we find our Sumix, im am from the okanagan indian band look us up on google, we legit
Legacychildren 2 months ago
real indians are way cooler than fake indians
Legacychildren 2 months ago 3
this is just discriminory, no they shouldn't lie the way tthey do, on the other hand it's good that some white people embrace, live and respect the indian culture. If they ar only 1/16 first nations then thats the indian inside him trying to live, now is the time when all nations are together, the medicine wheel is comlete. Don't hang onto your anger and hatred, abandon it. Soon the world that the white man has created will crumble and the life style of our ancestors will be the only way of life
Legacychildren 2 months ago
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lest we forget the medicine wheel
we live in a time where all quadrems are together
we can choose to be red white black yellow
each part has its meaning
and we cant live without all four
Spiritual mental physical emotional
Legacychildren 2 months ago
this was some made from some pissed off indian, anything that isnt some how FUCK THE WHITE MAN she wont put on here, using their name with no official membership is major disrespectful, but what can you expect from the average whitee, you can only claim to be part of a tribe if you have family in the nation and you have or can offer something to community, and i dont mean BLood i mean those you love, and no shit you can be part of the tribe if your BLood
Legacychildren 2 months ago
they just want to SHARE the culture, its indian shit theyre doin, indians are what they do
Legacychildren 2 months ago
"I was an Indian in a previous life.......Well you're white now" HA damn right, non-natives leave us and our culture alone, you took everything away and now just let us have what we have left
lion3p0 2 months ago
It's kinda like a big brother complaining that their little brother is copying them.
Humans, like all animals, are creatures of imitation. So if you don't want anyone to imitate from you, then either hide yourself away, or provide a path towards real understanding of your ways. (continued >> 1 of 4)
nextari 2 months ago
The fact of the matter is, in the same way that the traditions and wisdom should not be sold, they are also not truly owned by anyone, nor should any good intentioned, respectful person be denied access to that knowledge. Tribalism, like every human culture that has ever existed, has it's facets of elitism.
nextari 2 months ago
The favored individuals, born into the right family, with the right money, power, or with the right charisma, are on the inside. I have witnessed medicine carrying men act in very selfish ways, but they are the guy in power, and everyone falls in line around them. Though I am not Indian, I have been shown by Nature, while visiting a Res. that I was most welcome, and was duly gifted tremendous blessing by the land. The fact is that much of the Native spiritual practices and beliefs
nextari 2 months ago
are the natural result of recognizing and honoring one's connection to Nature. We are all on that path, and westerners have largely lost that connection, so naturally look to Native peoples in recognition that for some, that connection has been preserved and honored. So before Native people are too eager to "own" their spirituality, I would ask you "from whom is that path given?" Maybe you learned from a person, but ultimately, that path and the truth, is from the One Source.
nextari 2 months ago
Isn't it? Is your creator different than anyone else's? Of course not. Then how can you claim any TRUE path to be your own? If it is a legitimate path, than it MUST, intrinsically, be EVERYONE'S. Now, I'm not talking about specifics, 'cause on that level, we each have our own path, but the basic truths, we all share. When "someone" comes to you for help, that person is another "you", in need. It is our responsibility to respond to that need, to the best of our ability.
nextari 2 months ago
the maypole dance is the sun dance.
2Halifaxion2 2 months ago
As a Navajo Native who was raised on a reservation, I'm laughing at this. It's actually pretty sad. White people, go find your own culture and leave ours alone. You must have had one sometime. Every race does. Stop assimilating or possessing everyone elses. Trace your roots back to Scottish, Irish, French, British, Roman, Greek etc..... Yours is out there. Search for it.
Starlightkitty12 3 months ago 12
As long as people are genuine, act with honor and respect, then that should be enough regardless of a person's color or genetics. I believe that shamanic knowledge should be more accessible.
slowlyawakening 3 months ago
@slowlyawakening
If you research cultural anthropology and historic academic materials in many cultures shamans are chosen by spirits. They do not choose or appoint themselves to become one. Most who are chosen to become one do so with with dread and resistance. Shamans (from a historic point) serves the community.
Most people would cringe to know that shamans also practiced both benevolent healing but also malefic sorcery (usually against neighbouring tribes or to enforce tribal laws).
1NX9 3 months ago
I am Mi'kmaq and I think we are all of this planet and thats enough to pray to gather and to help heal Mother Earth Aqq Ni'n Kesalul (I love You All)
jessica1968ns 4 months ago
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All humans are descendants of tribal ancestry and nearly all tribes practice shamanism. Us white people are extremely removed from our tribal ancestry and our ancient culture because it was destroyed by roman and christian empires who then assimilated us into their own culture. Our spirituality has been oppressed for so long that when we become aware of that void in our souls we search for something sacred and the tribes of these lands are the first things we find. But THIS is not justifiable...
fuzzwahmrp 4 months ago
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All humans are descendants of tribal ancestry and nearly all tribes practice shamanism. Us white people are extremely removed from our tribal ancestry and our ancient culture because it was destroyed by roman and christian empires who then assimilated us into their own culture. Our spirituality has been oppressed for so long that when we become aware of that void in our souls we search for something sacred and the tribes of these lands are the first things we find. But THIS is not justifiable...
fuzzwahmrp 4 months ago
All humans are descendants of tribal ancestry and nearly all tribes practice shamanism. Us white people are extremely removed from our tribal ancestry and our ancient culture because it was destroyed by roman and christian empires who then assimilated us into their own culture. Our spirituality has been oppressed for so long that when we become aware of that void in our souls we search for something sacred and the tribes of these lands are the first things we find. But THIS is not justifiable...
fuzzwahmrp 4 months ago
I have some white heritage and some Cherokee heritage, which I really know nothing about. But I am from Oklahoma, so I just described 80% of the population there. I don't want to be disrespectful, but I am curious about that part of my family. Even though I look white, I want to know about that part of me. Does that make me a fake white person? We have things to learn from each other, that we never did. Does the earth care if you have white feet or red feet, when you walk on her?
olivethis 5 months ago
I find it ironic how my grandfather left the rez to go to michigan so he could pass himself off as a white man because back than if you were ndn you were considered a second class citizen and looked down on. Now it seems like all the white people are trying to pass themselves off as natives.
atillawith 5 months ago
IMO anyone descendent from northern Europe and Asia,should be allowed to practice as a Medicine man/woman or a Shaman.In all reality Native americans aren't truly native to the Americas,since they are descendants from the people that crossed the Beringia from Siberia to Alaska..they were Asians,and Northern/Eastern European.
ImmaShaman 6 months ago
@ImmaShaman
Europeans aren't native to Europe seeing how they descended from an African population that migrated into the present-day Middle East. Oops, I guess the BNP and Europe for European folks haven't got a claim to squat because they're not native to Europe at all. Butt hurt that a non-NDN can't practice specific customs that aren't theirs?
NopeJPeg 6 months ago
As for this spirituality thing.
I (certain) Whites who are into this thing view religion as 'Man Made'.
And therefor some revise Native ceremonies etc as they see fit.
On the other hand most Native Amer. view religion (thiers) as from a 'Divine Source". And therefor is held sacred and 'fixed' (unless the gods or whatever gives revelations or 'come down' to say something otherwise).
1NX9 6 months ago
you know what fuck you ass hole indians... first they came to take our land and then ... thats bull shit. if anything the white is the ascended. fuck wisdom over knowladge. the earth .... fuck the earth it will die and we will have to move on to another planet. we cant sustain a life on earth forever. i am so sick of this bullshit... we'll need the smarts fo the white man to ba able to travel through space. and you can have this planet..
breedingpestilence 6 months ago
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If you feel in your heart for the First Nations, stay beside them and fight their causes, don`t milk them! Stand up for their rights to practise their own traditions and ways, raise your voice against the racism they have to deal with. We whites have the power to practice any kind of religion and traditions, we know how to walk and survive in the white mans world. Use that power and help, instead of wack around stealing what is theirs.
wynken99 7 months ago
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wynken99 7 months ago
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wynken99 7 months ago
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wynken99 7 months ago
(con) this is not cultural misappropriation. It is evolution. Religion and spirituality evolve and being a white person doesn't change that. Think I am ridiculous if you want to but Great Spirit doesn't see a white man. Great Spirit sees a human. Period.
witchalan 7 months ago
@witchalan
(respectfully)
The concept of "Great Spirit" does not exist with all native Indian peoples.
1NX9 6 months ago
@1NX9 (1) I have yet to meet a Native American that calls themselves "Native Indian" and (2) I have yet to meet a Native Amerian who doesn't believe in a Great Spirit.
witchalan 6 months ago
I am part Cherokee and can prove it bit I am a "white American." to say that I cannot go back to my roots and look for my truth in my heritage is to say that I gave no right to be who I am. This is ridiculous. I may never be trained S a Shaman but I can explore the Cherokee culture and adapt what resonates with me. This is not cultural
witchalan 7 months ago
first off, the word shamanism stems from Siberia. "Wikipedia - Many Wiccans believe in magic, a force they see as being capable of manipulation through the practice of witchcraft or sorcery. Some spell it "magick", a variation coined by the influential occultist Aleister Crowley." therefore your arguments are invalid and don't let Christan's fool you Wicca is not dark or evil it is our spiritual right,as is anyone elses, no set of ideologies or knowledge belongs to one group or race of people
marleycake 7 months ago
I know 98% of these...white folk are fake but I do believe there are a small, SMALL few are genuine...and they're probably just very quiet.
The nest time you guys see people like THIS (fake ones) just beat them Mjolnir and tell them Thor's eyes are upon them.
djwaglmuffin 8 months ago 2
4:25...hehe
daisy752 8 months ago
OMG they even try to copy the way our elders speak...it's ridiculous....
DLSNiiganii 8 months ago 2
@DLSNiiganii Ya it is quite frankly...I am genuinely Metis and I choose to live white because I was brought up that way...I wasn't brought up Native so why would I bother with it, now...
lucy9359 8 months ago
As long as you dont sale the conection to spirit, no matter in what way, dont sell the pipe, dont sell the cristals, dont sell the drum etc, I think everyone is really just the same and can do the same things! We are all one with all that is right? Whats the difference? I dont need a title, like shaman, or druid etc, I'm just my spiritual self, doing my own thing! Why all the division???
LgGerminator 9 months ago
i see no one buying names here. they just give themselves names and good for them! i do! i don't care if others approve or not, as it is not about them. this video by its very title is just racist propaganda. they are saying that all white people can't be shamans. no one needs to leave anything alone. no one owns a culture. i am part native american and part celtic. i don't own either culture. and i am proud to be from the great melting pot. mix whatever you want; take truth from everywhere!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@reverendloush
"Part-Native American" Is that a white code for "Wannabe Indian with no Native upbringing but wish to add my two cents in and it won't come out as white privilege speak if I claim Native ancestry"? Sure sounds like it.
NopeJPeg 9 months ago 23
@NopeJPeg oh we have a white code now; you racist fool! and i don't wannabe anything other than what i am. and yes some of my ancestors were native american and most were celtic, and there are some others in there. i am glad to be of mixed blood and thankful i didn't have a native american upbringing, not that my father didn't try. and what is this white privledge you speak of, because i grew up poor thanks! your such a racist fool! there is my two cents and then some!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@NopeJPeg most people who have native blood and are brought up white like myself say they are part native american...instead of saying my mother was of native descent, but I didn't embrace her culture I wouldn't want to live on a reserve and I think that most Natives are racist toward people who are mixed race whites are more acsepting of them so they live white if they can...I haven't been that lucky, I look mixed race I am therefore constantly confronted with it...
lucy9359 8 months ago
@lucy9359
I don't care if any breed lives white so long as they don't decide to take on a Native guise afterward and begin acting like they're Native after not sticking by skins through thick and thin.
NopeJPeg 8 months ago 3
@NopeJPeg I think you missed my point...racism is the issue here...no one made you God so you can't decided who does what with their life...I am happy to live in a white world and be mixed race because I wasn't brought up on the reserve so I don't want it but I have friends who were mixed race and brought up on the reserve and it is all they know...that is my point....
lucy9359 8 months ago
@NopeJPeg "Part Native American" means what it says. My great grandmother's mom was a full-blooded Cherokee. Parts of her people helped to settle - and fought against the settlement of - eastern Kentucky. Yes, I know this to be true and have docs to prove it. Pretty sure you probably have all kinds of heritage - most of America does.
witchalan 6 months ago
@witchalan
If by heritage you mean coming from 2 separate non-white groups. Otherwise, nope.
NopeJPeg 6 months ago
@NopeJPeg Let's see if I can clarify this. What I meant was that you probably aren't a "pure blood" of anything. I'm not a "pure-blood Caucasian" in other words, even tho I check "Caucasian" when asked to volunteer my race. I'm English, Irish and Cherokee that I'm aware of and probably have some German in me, as well. I personally think that one can come from 1 white and 1 non-white group and be considered "non-pure-blood." (And I don't think that's a bad thing.)
witchalan 6 months ago
@witchalan
Well, a half Hopi and half Navajo definitely equals an FBI. There's good number of Indians who are from separate nations but are still FBI.
Disclaimer: Poster is not actually Hopi/Navajo.
NopeJPeg 6 months ago
@NopeJPeg "Full Blooded Indian," perhaps, but NOT "full blooded Hopi" and NOT "full blooded Navajo." But my original thought was more about white people, like myself, who have some Native American blood running their veins.
witchalan 6 months ago
@witchalan
Funny how that works that say a Chinese national can claim to be FBC yet have parents who can be of any of the 56 ethnic groups in China and not so much as a peep out of most anyone about their claim to FB status yet the same privilege isn't afforded to Indians. FBI is still FBI no matter what the nosebleeds might say. Haters gonna hate.
NopeJPeg 6 months ago
this is some funny stuff, people buying so called Indian names, my first name is kenneth( it means "Born of Fire" and/or "Handsome" most of these people have names that mean something and don't even know it . lol. there are those who walk with God/Creator and those who dont. BOTTOMLINE. There is Good and Evil in all religions
CherokeeTwilight 9 months ago
One thing I notice between American society (in general) and Canadian society (in general) in regards to culture & religion is that Americans view themselves as a "Melting Pot" where as Canadians view themseves as a "Mosaic" (mosaic being seperate, different but equal).
In terms of religion why cant both exist?
1NX9 9 months ago 2
@1NX9 "seperate but equal" was what "americans" called black people when during the civil rights movement. are you an idiot or something?
witchalan 6 months ago
@witchalan
I never said anything about "seperate or equal'
Are you an idiot or something?
1NX9 6 months ago
@1NX9 your exact words were "Americans view themselves as a "Melting Pot" where as Canadians view themseves as a "Mosaic" (mosaic being seperate, different but equal)." And most Americans don't think we're all a bunch of candle wax melted up to make a big globby mess. We're actually very individualistic people - it's what makes America, America.
witchalan 6 months ago
@witchalan
"...We're actualy very individualist people...."
That is not in the same context of what I was refering too.
Canada consider themselves a "Cultural Mosaic". They do not have racial equality problems.
wiki has some good info on the term "Melting Pot"
- The melting pot is a metaphor for a heterogeneous society becoming more homogeneous, the different elements "melting together" into a harmonious whole with a common culture.
Look up "Cultural Mozaic" while your at it.
1NX9 6 months ago
@1NX9 (a) wiki is not a credible source. trying quoting it as a source for a college paper and see how quickly your score drops to zilch. (b) no one said canada had racial equality problems. (c) i didn't have an issue with "melting pot" - i had an issue with "seperate but equal." if you want to look something up, look up "kiss my white ass" prick. if you don't want to have a discussion, don't post comments.
witchalan 6 months ago
@witchalan
First of all wiki is only one source . Very similar info can be found with a net search.
First of all I thought I was being helpful. As there is alot of misleading info and sterotypes about Native peoples.
1NX9 6 months ago
@witchalan
If my posts came off the wrong way. I take it back.
Wasnt trying to be rude.
1NX9 6 months ago
@1NX9 It's okay. I may have misread your comment - it's not hard to do - so I apologize, too. I agree that there is definitely a lot of misleading info on Native People.
witchalan 6 months ago
@1NX9 There's also a lot of misinfo regarding "white" people who look into Native spiritualities, & it bugs me when some people have an issue with that. Not saying that you did, but I took it that way, and I may have been mistaken about that. I think white people have just as much right to research their roots and look into their cultural heritage and find a spirituality that fits them as much as anyone else does. Just b/c they may not have brown skin doesn't mean they aren't of Native origins.
witchalan 6 months ago
@witchalan
I agree with you. There is also alot of misleading info regarding 'white' people as well. Racism and predjudices occurs with native people as well. It happens with all races and ethnicties.
Not all white people are bad people. Theres good people of all races and ethnicities.
I believe those of European backgrounds should research their roots. There is much to learn.
Alot one can learn from Celtic peoples, Slavic peoples, Scandinavian peoples etc.
Cheers!
1NX9 6 months ago
That's all I was getting at, so I apologize, too, if I mistook what you wrote.
witchalan 6 months ago
irish people were beaten, jailed, and killed for speaking their own language. when they came here they were told that no irish need apply. there were white slaves called indentured servants. everyone's ancestors got a raw deal at one time or another. i don't see the point in playing victim after the fact. we have to get up, dust ourselves off, heal our wounds, and move on down the road to the better life!
reverendloush 9 months ago
a wise man once said give me liberty or give me death! these people are trying to tell people like me that we don't have a right to hold our classes and ceramonies because they don't approve as if i need their approval for anything! how dare they! i don't tell them what to do and i demand the same in return!
reverendloush 9 months ago
everyone's ancestors were stripped of their rights at some point! i have known very wise decent native americans who would be appalled at this video. the people in it are racist and ignorant! they have more right than i do as a gay man because at least they can get married and adopt children. in my own country i am a third class citizen. illegal immigrants can get married but i can't. but all this is besides the point! no one has the right to tell another how to live! freedom or death!
reverendloush 9 months ago
native americans are also not the only culture that have vision quests and other such activities all ancients had it. the celts had many forms of vision questing like the aisling, the immrama, and so on! the imbas forosnei is another form of visioning. where by the quester gets a vision from spiritual ecstasy. The Awen or Imbas is the divine force which flows into all existence and inspires and animates the universe. this force is called on when healing. it is believed to come from the creator!
reverendloush 9 months ago
something else since it was brought up. native americans are not the only culture with sweat lodges nor are they the only ones who know how to do it right. people in east have them, people in russia have them, the druids had them, the turks have had them. it is sad that a few isolated instances of a few people making mistakes is being used as an excuse to condone racism!
reverendloush 9 months ago
with all due respect; in my culture, religion, and belief system everyone can hold whatever kind of ceramonies they need and everyone can do healing. it is as simple as believing in God and letting him work through you and usually the laying on of hands. no one is more special than anyone else and no one is pretending to be anyone other than themselves. you don't know who is being helped or not, as you are not God! medicine people don;t own God, spirit, or ritual! nor does any one race!
reverendloush 9 months ago
it would be like me asking an english person for money and apologies for what their ancestors did to my irish ancestors. it would be evil and arrogant for me to do that! and i don't hold them responsible for what their ancestors did! history is full of sin and sadness. are we going to be subject to those things forever; or are we going to rise above them and evolve?
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 lying will not further spiritual development nor will anyone interfering with our freedoms do so! and who needs anyones blessing? we are all humans with divine rights and free will. so many people are trying to impose theirs on everyone elses and it is wrong period! i had a black woman tell me that i should give her money because her ancestors were slaves, and i said so were mine so we should both keep our own money.
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 if gifts are part of the way, than why do they have a problem with white teachers getting gifts of money in exchange for their time and efforts to teach people? it is one way or the other it seems! i think black elk would have been sad at this video and its racism. i don't believe anyone owes an apology to anyone for history that happened when they were not alive or for actions that were not theirs! so we will have to agree to disagree on that issue!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 well i will take your prayers and be thankful for them because this video is one of the most horrifically offensive pieces of trash i have ever encountered and i have encountered a lot. every aspect of my humanity is offended by this video. but that is not important. what is important is freedom. all of our freedoms to worship as we choose and not choose! as for apologizing for history that had little or nothing to do with me; where are all the apologies "owed" to the rest of us?
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 i never knew anyone who went to those kind of sweat lodges. i am talking about people who went to spirituality classes. and no i have nothing to apologize for to the tribes people as i have never done anything to them. nor can i be sorry that they happened as i didn't do it to them. and the words sorry and apology are bad words. to be sorry is an admission of guilt with no remorse. to apologize means to defend ones wrongful actions. i can feel sorrow that bad things happened to them.
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 while i understand what you are saying i have to say that it can be turned around...so we are suppose to buy peace now with gifts as if that makes everything ok? history would say otherwise. i don't want their teachings or need them specifically. i draw inspiration from certain native traditions and my ancestors. but i take wisdom from everywhere i can find it. and that is my divine right as a human being. point is that the people holding these classes have the right to do so!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 yes and the racism goes both ways! as a white man i am so sick of being blamed for everyone elses problems. everyone needs to take responsibility for their own issues now. then is then and now is now everyone needs to stop living in the past!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 i do study history thank you and i removed my own comments because of typos. when i do angry typing i make mistakes lol! and this victim mentality is repugnant. enough is enough! all of our peoples have been slaves at some point in history, all peoples have suffered and been treated less than. it is time to grow up and get over it!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 i have never met a single person who is stupid enough to believe that the people who teach these workshops are people from reservations! i do think this whole thing is insulting to the people who go to the workshops. as if they don't understand what they are paying for! and this is an emotional discussion, because i am disgusted and tired of the racism against white people and prejudice against alternative spirituality!
reverendloush 9 months ago
no one goes to these workshop or classes thinking oh i am going to get tribal teachings in the same way a tribal teacher might teach them. but what are they complaining for anyway; if they don't like the way white people understand their spiritual practices than the simple answer is to teach them themselves to anyone who wants to learn. put up or shut up!
reverendloush 9 months ago
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the white people in the video are not trying to rip off anything. they mix cultural practices in their workshops and they don't hide that from the people learning from them. i never met a person who goes to these kind of workshops and doesn't know the white people teaching them are white! who are these people trying to poison by offering people their view of the world? no one that's who!
reverendloush 9 months ago
Heres a thought, get your own culture and stop ripping off someones elses cuz guess what peoples do have their own, I never once said own. Your kind place everything towards ownership, another part of the old colonial bull shit, its about power and control. This video is about stupid and indeed subtley racist and ignorant new age white people and wannabes who are trying to rip off, polute and poison true American Indigenous culture MY culture and that of my other brothers and sisters.
lion3p0 9 months ago
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reverendloush 9 months ago
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@lion3p0 the white people in the video are not trying to rip off anything. they mix cultural practices in their workshops and they don't hide that from the people learning from them. i never met a person who goes to these kind of workshops and doesn't know the white people teaching them are white! who are these people trying to poison by offering people their view of the world? no one that's who!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 exactly! thank you for saying that!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 i agree!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@lunasol666 Well I agree with you up to a point, teaching the right stuff okay but I bet they will abuse that knowledge. Most of these people on this video are seeking prophet from our ways, why would we teach them the right ways if they're going to seek prophet from it. That's why we're letting them make fools out of themselves, I mean I would feel stick to my stomach if I did this.
Tiesto20121 9 months ago
@Tiesto20121 it is racist to assume that before you know people and ignorant! and everyone's time is valuable and they deserve to be paid for their time and efforts. minsters and preachers get paid, doctors get paid, traditionally shamans and medicine men receive goods for services which is payment! it isn't about profit but about earning a living! and everyone has the right to do that. if their life is spent on mundane things or sacred things like healing is irrelevant! you don't own spirit!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@reverendloush It may come off as being mean but sadly that's the truth. Every time I put faith into them they let us down time after time. I know their heart is in the right place but deep down they know they're doing wrong. It gets me mad when people without the gift of healing hold ceremonies and act like they are helping people. That's why I don't trust them. If they want to follow our ways okay but don't try and be someone your not. It's a slap in our faces when we see these.
Tiesto20121 9 months ago
Celtic and pagans, keep ur religous ceremonies the way they're supposed to be and were, not some assimilated wicca popularity crap, leave ours alone and they r ours,we leave urs alone so leave us alone and that goes for all u people
lion3p0 9 months ago
@lion3p0 no one owns their culture. it is just a stupid idea by ignorant people that anyone can own a culture! and it is a racist thing to say! and people should be free to mix whatever beliefs or practices they so wish! every human being has a divine right to their own path and truth, and if that path is eclectic and influenced by many diverse cultures than good! we should be influenced to some degree by all the truths and wisdom of the world. and any who doesn't like that fact can shut up!
reverendloush 9 months ago
Whatever happened to your "Who can own a tree, who can own a rock" thing? Yet in this video you do nothing but talk about what's "ours" "ours" "ours"! about land that belonged to YOU! You're a bunch of hypocrites!
allisonforfornsed 10 months ago
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1NX9 9 months ago
Creator isn't an "it".
ravsin2008 10 months ago
hey im 1/180th percent cherokee ima go commune with nature and buy myself a name. BAAHAHAHA. Seriiously the best thing white people can do for natives is leave their culture the hell alone.
imabadking 10 months ago 19
@imabadking See my video. "Natives" don't OWN that culture. we have our OWN names and OUR OWN connection with nature. You should see my video about it. But until then tho, this is a free country. pull the stick outta your ass.
allisonforfornsed 10 months ago
@allisonforfornsed Actually whenever an artifact is found that is native american, for it to be placed in a museam the local tribe must say "ok". So actually they DO own their culture. I watched your video, something you dont seem to factor in is that NOBODY SAID EUROPEANS DIDNT HAVE SHAMANS OR PAGAN RELIGIONS!!! My comment, and this video are in direct relation to white people who have no native american ancestory selling out a culture that is NOT their own.
imabadking 10 months ago
@imabadking um the video exactly says that white people are not shamans. the title of the video is white shamans and plastic medicine people ...it is making fun of white people who say they are shamans so your argument here holds no water. and if i find an artifact or a feather than i am keeping it and the tribes and government can zip it! if i find anything sacred it is because the Creator wanted me to find it! it is meant for me!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@reverendloush If you think thats what they are saying then you obviously didnt watch the video...so actually its YOUR argument that holds no water. Please, by all means show me the part where it says white people cant be shamans in their own pagan religions...oh thatr right...it dosent say that. And feel free to keep artifact you find on your own land, but I wouldent tell anyone about it because LEGALLY you have to let the local tribe.
imabadking 9 months ago
@imabadking i did watch the racist crap video. but i didn't have to because the title says it all! it is just racismmmmmm! so your argument holds no water! and the video does say it several times actually! and i don't care about legally. and i am not likely to find an artifact where i live anyway but if i ever did like on a trip or something i would keep! and i don't have to let the tribes do anything to me...
reverendloush 9 months ago
@imabadking i would rather sit in jail than submit to an unjust law because an unjust law is no law at all! and i don't what they are complaining about they have way more rights and freedoms than i do as a gay man!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@reverendloush These peoples ancestors were stripped of their rights and culture as part of unjust laws, and now they thankfully are regaining some of those things. But you dont see it that way, you think of these people as selfish because they are trying to protect something very close to them, something that they have carefully maintained, and regained after years of oppression. And explain how they hove more rights?
imabadking 9 months ago
@imabadking it is but we all know they wont
lion3p0 9 months ago
@imabadking really ok than lets leave them alone thats a great idea, lets leave them all alone...hell while we are at it lets take back the little land afforded them and take away what rights they do have as tribes! i agree that sounds like a brilliant idea!
reverendloush 9 months ago
@imabadking Leave it the hell alone? There is a lot we can learn from them
magicalhearingman 9 months ago
@magicalhearingman learning is one thing, however becoming imposters and selling out a culture that isnt your own is another.
imabadking 9 months ago 4
@imabadking I agree
magicalhearingman 9 months ago
@imabadking native and pagan European beliefs are very similar, i think white people are using native spirituality to reconnect with something that was once a part of their culture, before the Christian massacred them
madchronz77 7 months ago
@madchronz77 agreed, and we need to go back to our own roots, rather than digging up the roots of others
imabadking 7 months ago 3
If you're saying there are no white shamans, u better go check world history. The people of Europe were pagan tribes originally, that lived much like your people did. (before christianity.) "Shamans" can be found all over the world in almost every culture including native European. GO LEARN ABOUT EUROPEAN HISTORY! I get so tired of you brown people acting like you invented "tribe" and "shamanism". You're just afraid to have something in common w/ whites! you're petty & jealous. SWALLOW UR FOOT!
allisonforfornsed 10 months ago
@allisonforfornsed
First of all who is saying there are "no white shamans"?
To qoute allison: "I get so tired of you brown people acting like you invented 'tribe' and 'shamanism'."
So ALL "brown people" are all the same to you? All "brown people" think the same way?
"Brown people" are not individuals with different opinions? Is that what your trying to say allison?
1NX9 9 months ago 11
@1NX9 Nope. I do not believe that all brown people think the same way. I have many very dear friends who are "brown"; but they are not racists. It is racist "Brown people" that I am referring to. I use the term "brown people" b/cuz the one trend I've seen among racist brown people, is that their primary racial vendetta, is with anything "white". their are many different types of "brown" people, india, africa, americas; however, such tend to see themselves as one big group, versus "whites".
allisonforfornsed 9 months ago
@1NX9 I would also like to add to the comment I posted a moment ago, in answer to your first question, that there are in fact many people that insist that there are no white shamans, that there never were, and that if they claim to be, they are merely frauds. many such are like these people in the fake plastic shamans video.
allisonforfornsed 9 months ago
@allisonforfornsed
(respectfully)
I believe they are saying those self profess "shamans" are not 'shamans' of Their people.
(eg Sorta like someone from Nigeria dressing up as Shinto priest, never been trained as Shinto Priest, never exposed to Japanese culture and then going to Japan claiming to be a Japnese Shinto priest. And expecting everyone to accept him as genuine Shinto Priest.)
.
1NX9 9 months ago
@1NX9 Well you are right in this case. Unfortunately, I think that american indians are far too rigid about white people learning the natural native ways of this land. They preach about the excellence and rightness of their ways, and complain that the white man's way is destroying this land, and then turn around and greedily condemn any white man who desires to exemplify indian ways in his life. I heard that the famous and very honorable Leonard Crow Dog, Lakota (comment continued in next)
allisonforfornsed 9 months ago
@1NX9 Tribe, is training a white non-indian man( i forgot his name) in the medicine ways. This I truly admire. As for people trying to sell shamanism, I don't like that at all.
allisonforfornsed 9 months ago
@allisonforfornsed
"As for people trying to sell shamanism, I dont like that."
Fair enough Allisonforfornsed.
Wish you good luck with that (in the medicine way).
1NX9 9 months ago
@1NX9 Thank you 1NX9. I appreciate it. I wish you well also.
allisonforfornsed 9 months ago
@1NX9 look at all the comments here, they are all about "white people"...are all "white people the same to you? do all "white people" think the same way?
chill out ...she didn't wanted to insult anyone...
crystalaurora 9 months ago
@1NX9 the title uses "white shamans" in a derogatory way, the neolithic and shamanism was global and all of prehistory was filled with shamanism, the native americans, africans and other coloured people just stayed in prehistory, whether they are individuals or not is irrelevant when talking about groups.
nephildevil 5 months ago
@nephildevil
Native Americans are Not disputing that shamanism is global.
The issue is why is there so many whites pretending to be Native Ameircan medicine men. Its not Afro Americans, its not Asians, its not Latinos that are mainly doing this. Why is it mainly white middle class? Why is it mainly middle age? I believe an element of cultural fetishism and Noble Savage (fueled by Hollywood) that is partly doing this.
1NX9 4 months ago 3
@1NX9 Whites are denied their own culture, almost any reference or pride to it is considered racism. So when they realize (at middle age, when the kids r out) that consumerism really isn't the thing either, they go on a spiritual voyage to try and find what IS the 'thing'. And sadly they just end up following hollywood bullshit straight to cons that take advantage of their life long ignorance to the real thing. Maybe, they just got what they deserved.
nephildevil 4 months ago
thumbs up if you came here because you have an exam on intro to anthropology on this soon XD
MrArcan3 10 months ago 2
@MrArcan3 what school do you go to? I had an exam on this video too
imabadking 10 months ago
@imabadking York university n u?
MrArcan3 10 months ago
@MrArcan3 Reno University, lol I cant believe more than one university uses this video
imabadking 10 months ago
I can see where these people are coming from. Honestly who isn;t fascinated by the native Americans?... Though, with them being of european decent, I would suggest that they research the Shamanic or native religions of Europe (Druidry, Asatru, Hellinism-etc)
emoisgay789 10 months ago
were here were queer, get use to it lol! i think i will start a new mantra and put it on shirts....proud to be plastic, plastic is real! lol this is a proper snub to these racists!
i am proud to be different than the natives in this video. and by the way everyone born in america is a native american and there is no such thing as first nations peoples. every race is as old as every other race according to my faith.
reverendloush 10 months ago
@5p34x
Respectfully. Keep in mind its not all whites who are doing this. There are decents whites around too.
1NX9 10 months ago
@1NX9
thank you for pointing that out!
reverendloush 10 months ago
@reverendloush
You are welcome reverendloush.
1NX9 10 months ago
@5p34x
oh please i have taken nothing from them. nor did any white person alive today! what happened in the past was tragic but it had nothing to do with any of us alive today including the natives. i am so sick and tired of this victim mentality people have. get over it and grow up and move on like the rest of us. no one alive stole your land. dead men did. so now what are you going to do? sit and play victim forever?
reverendloush 10 months ago
@5p34x White people underage 30 in the USA are only 22 percent of America. - White people being born childhood teens 20s are only 22 percent of America. - When the older Whites in America die off in 30 years White in America will only be 22 percent of the American Population - Mexicans and Indians numbers in the USA are getting higher why whites numbers in the USA are droping ---- call me a Nazi you have no argument do you ?
YESWECAN1963 11 months ago
@5p34x White people are being killed off in the USA - the younger whites are a minorty already.
YESWECAN1963 11 months ago
@YESWECAN1963
it is true...white are the minority now! and i am the biggest minority of all; white, male, christian mystic, and gay! so people can just kiss it. if we are going to play minority victim i win since i have been victimized my whole life for being gay! oh and i am a child abuse survivor so let the victim games continue! grow up people! shame on you for staying a victim! so yes we can thanks for saying that!
reverendloush 10 months ago
i geus not hippys kno all an see all i think i will become a new ager lol
rezzedout1 11 months ago
if you really belived in you spirit ways you wouldnt need to get on here a get mad at people for sayn there mind. how would you like it if people took the way you pray and made a joke of it like i see the non native people do with OUR ways im not talking about all ways just what was givin 2 us by god and not all non natives do that thier are some real sincire people that pray with us n mean it but for the most part the wont understand it as we do its in our blood put there by god
rezzedout1 11 months ago
and since when did any human being need credentials to seek spirit, hold ritual, or tell about their beliefs and experiences! that is just a stupid thing to say!
reverendloush 11 months ago
@reverendloush
You said "since when did any human being need credentials to seek spirit, hold ritual, or tell about their beliefs and experiences".
Theres a difference between doing that and claiming to a "Native shaman" to the public.
(For instance someone claiming to be a medical doctor but never attended & passed medical school.)
1NX9 10 months ago
@1NX9
none of the people in the vide are claiming to be native americans and they are visibly white! and the video is entitled white shamans and plastic medicine men which proves it is just racist propaganda against white people! so you have no real argument! there is no such thing as plastic medicine men, just people who other people disagree with their ideas and ways. that doesn't make one right and the other wrong!
reverendloush 10 months ago
@reverendloush
First of all where does the video say ALL whites are doing this?
There are people claiming to possesses native beliefs but where are they getting this info from?
One of the complaints of natives is that these people are Distortion their beliefs under deception that its "Native Amer."
Second of all there are people in the vid dressing up in native like attire.
And what "argument" is mine suppose to be again? FYI I was just trying to be helpful.
1NX9 10 months ago
@1NX9
i understand and we can just agree to disagree with each other on some things! but again if i want to wear cloths from another culture that is my right. and there are lots of beliefs of native americans in literature that mirror my european ancestors beliefs; for example "black elk speaks" is a wonderful treasure trove of inspirations for spirituality and ritual, another document is the letter to the president by chief seattle which shows native philosophy at its best!
reverendloush 10 months ago
@reverendloush
Same here. We can agree to disagree with each other on some things.
1NX9 10 months ago
@1NX9
oh yes and i wear sarongs and saris sometimes so i guess that means i am pretending to be from india lol!
reverendloush 10 months ago
@reverendloush
Wearing sarongs & saris SOMETIMES hardly makes you pretend that you are from India. Are you calling yourself Indian? Are you claiming Indian ancestry to the public? Are you claimning to be some guru from India? Are you claiming to do Hindu religious services to the public (but yet never learnt it from actual Hindus...)?
1NX9 10 months ago
@1NX9
lol hahaha...well at reiki shares we say namastei and teach certain hindu concepts in our reiki classes does that count? lol finally someone on here who can make me laugh! thanks!
reverendloush 10 months ago
@reverendloush
Are you publicly claiming your that your East Indian?
Theres a difference between using a few Hindu concept and publicly claiming your East Indian.
1NX9 10 months ago
@1NX9
no i never claim to be anything other than what i am, but according to these racists i am not a real shaman because i am white and eclectic. so i can not take anything they say seriously!
reverendloush 10 months ago
@reverendloush
What they are saying is that your not a shaman of THIER people.
If you want to claim your an eclectic Celtic shaman I doubt many would care less.
1NX9 10 months ago
@1NX9 said What they are saying is that your not a shaman of THIER people.
well that would be true except they are saying all white shamans are plastic or rather white people can't know the medicine ways as if the great spirit only speaks to them! if they want to tell people on the phone or something that a teacher isn't real than fine, but breaking into classes is just wrong. we could go on like this forever, but the truth is that this video is jut racist propaganda.
reverendloush 10 months ago