@seangarrett92, Yep, no Almax chain can be cropped despite repeated and expensive attempts, also most of other the available 16mm+ chains are good as well. I can't recommend the Oxford 16mm because the manufacturing quality is so poor that it varies from link to link, one link will e rock hard, and a couple of links down will be like toffee.
Wrap the chain in aluminium adhesive tape 3 times all around the chain. Wipe it with Vaseline then wrap some cut plastic bags all around the chain again by using some adhesive tape again. the thiefs have to get their hands and Bolt cutter dirty now before trying to cut the god damn chain.
How many thieves carry around 4 foot bolt cutters? Better yet how many can carry them concealed from view? These tests are not that useful. These is assuming a best case scenario for the thief. For this to happen it would pretty much take an organized ring of criminals. That's hardly the case. 99.9% of the time is young punks looking to make a quick score.
@AutodromoF1 I agree with the last sentence you typed, but how hard do you think it is for a kid on a scooter to throw a bag over their shoulder with a set of bolt cutters in it, then cruise around a few car parks and make a phone call when he finds something. 10 minutes later a transit van shows up and 30 seconds after that your bike is inside it.
I think you're a bit naive my friend, the only sure fire answer to this kind of theft is to catch them in the act.
a great tip for your bike security in the garage a tomy digital td 300 baby monitor and a rape alarm on some fishing wire . works a treat and its 2 way so if they do go into the garage you can tell them to f**k off aswell
best lock is the 1 called insurance ...... i do use a lock in this vid tho and am not surprised 1 bit how long it took to cut off ....always keep the lock off the ground and always tight as possible ...
@xr650rBRP1X - Police should be allow to beat on them severely until they bleed. I had my first bike stolen when I was 10, b*stard walked right into the utility room of our house while my mother was cooking dinner, she thought it was me(bathroom style glass).
I think one of the best is hidden gps transmitter - f*ck calling the cops, just go round with a baseball bat and some firelighters.
so what i should buy to protect my bike ? a 16mm U lock cant be cut off with the aid of hacksaw ?
i believe that alarm with noise detection could help a lot and also immobilizer so thieves won't be able to turn an 125cc innova on power by connecting the wires....
@rd91sib18zex, if it's a U lock with a sub 16mm shackle, it will make no difference, still croppable. In fact, a badly used U lock is even easier to break than a chain, you just jack them open. Use a 16mm U lock correctly and it should stop someone riding off.
Now I know why it's recommended to keep the chain off the ground and to leave as little slack as possible; make it as difficult as you can to get croppers to the links!
During the day at least, who's gonna carry heavy-duty chain cutters around? :P Mainly at night i guess the problem lies, use a couple of disk locks, and obscure the lock as best you can with bike covers.
Great vid by the way. I have a question regarding disk locks, are they indeed more secure than chains. Of course a disk lock cant secure you to ground point but are they as useless?
i guess the tip is to wrap the chain up so there is little slack?
@N3orion, a disk lock is only of any use against someone who is NOT armed with an allen key to undo the bolts on the brake disk and a cable tie to keep it out of the way while it is pushed or ridden off. Best thing to do is get one that fits over the rear sprocket and chain, although that will probably just be a padlock, but to be honest, you're better off with a £50 padlock than a £50 disk lock. If you MUST use one, then the Motrax Vishas is pretty good. Twist the chain to take up slack.
@MrTopbreak, that's not as easy as it sounds because cost, in this situation, is by no means an indication of quality. Once the chains get below 14mm or so, they become very similar in performance so there's not much point in paying £120 for an Oxford when a £29 chain of the same size and with similar padlock will last as long under the croppers. Basically, if you want to force noisy attacks then a 16mm or 19mm Almax with a decent anchor is at the top, then the Pragmasis 16 +19, then PJB 14mm+
Best idea would be to keep the chain as high as possible, not on the floor, chained to something knee level or higher, then you can't get the kind of leverage the guy in the video is exploiting.
@BIGPIMPINUPDANYC - You need to look at how he positioned the bolt cutter and its angle ends which would allow him to get leverage in either situation. If the chain is tout and hanging in the air then all he has to do is apply downward force. Also you have to remember that these guys weren't trying to damage the bike while attempting this but you can be sure as hell actual thieves wouldn't be as merciful.
i know my chain is not full proof, no form of security is...its just a deterrent. The common thief will not mess with a chain that size, it would take at least 2 thieves with a plan and the right equipment...possible but far less likely. And you can bet someone who is anchoring their bike that well probably has a secondary security feature...so I hope, for the criminals sake, they know how to locate it and defeat it...grand theft auto earns you prison time with murderers.
@MrTyronePimp, not over here it doesn't. Stealing vehicles is easy money in the UK, good returns, very little risk of being caught and even if you ARE caught, the sentences are pathetic.
@kosmosleha, a youth would get three warnings for stealing vehicles before actually going to court. They'd have to be caught THREE TIMES before even getting sentenced. An adult would probably get community service, certainly not imprisonment unless they are chronically crap serial bike thieves or they have stolen a quad from a golf club where the judge plays. This is why it's so important to take resposibility for securing your pride and joy, the law is NOT on our side and is no deterrent.
Hey, I watched this video and showed it to my friends. We are freaked out, because we live in Argentina and we dont have any +16mm chain on market to purchase. Any suggestions? Thanks
Thank you very much for your answer.Is it important that the Squire Ex-Caliber is through and case hardened and the Almax chain for example is only case hardened?By the way,I don't live in England and i have sent e-mail to Almax twice to ask them if they deliver their products in my country but unfortunately they don't answer me.
Hi Mr.CC, what is your opinion about Squire Ex-Caliber 16mm chain?Description:16mm Dia x 1.5m Long Link Security chain,Highest Grade Alloy Steel,Through and case hardened process for maximum strength and security.Can be bolt cropped by hand?
@acb101010 , Hello, I haven't tried the Squire chain yet, but going by the specifications, I'd be pretty confident it's not possible to crop it. Just make sure that if you buy one, it comes with a good lock like the Squire SC65 and that you use an anchor too.
One day I lost my lock key at my friends place. I went home to get a big Hitachi angle grinder. I cut my chain in broad day light with that grinder and nobody reacted. This was not even in my street so nobody knew me. I was shocked that I was left alone to do that. Nobody even called the police!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fuck that,iv got boat chain its 26mm thick links it cost me £25 a metre which is cheap as chips,no fucking bolt cutters are cutting through that,only a grinder would and no thief is guna wana noisy grinder cutting away.
@CaptainCropper stainless steel chain mate with hardened steel armoured padlock i lock my bike up with 3 of these chains, would take fucking ages to cut with a hacksaw thiefs dnt wana be there for ages fucking around with a saw at the end of the day,they want to be in and out fast with bot cutters,42"bolt cutters will piss throgh hardened steel chains that cost in excess of £80 as seen in the video,
@smegturbo, you raise some valid points. At least you have made the effort to secure your bike to your own standards rather than relying on the Sold Secure sticker.
@CaptainCropper yerh sometimes its better to just have a think at securing things a differant way,rather than just taking for granted whats on the market,just cnt understand why they dnt supply hardened steel chains with thicker links that bolt cutters and handsaws would never get through?
@smegturbo, they do mate. Almax sell 16mm and 19mm chains with padlocks to suit. The reason behind this vid was to raise awareness of Almax chains and also to expose the crappy level of testing carried out by Sold Secure. All the chains in the vid were Sold Secure Gold for motorcycles, that means they resisted 5 minutes cropping attack with 42" Record croppers. As you can see, they didn't resist much when we did them.
So it has been established that it is indeed relatively easy to break a chain. The question is just how on earth is a person supposed to secure his bike?
@zabara99, BIG chain and a ground anchor. By big I mean with 16mm+ links and a CEN 6 padlock to suit. If you're out and about, I found that the Motrax Vishas is a particularly tough little disc lock. Feel free to send me an email if you need specific advice.
It's not fair to attack those chains with such a big cropper! They were clearly designed to withstand scissors or perhaps some hand wire cutter.
Does make you wonder just what tests these manufacturers actually perform on them. 5 minutes of what? Someone with a hacksaw they bought for £5 at Homebase?
@oiaisso, hello, no point, it's an 11mm chain, there isn't an 11mm chain that can't be cut with croppers. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that you could use far smaller croppers than we use for this chain. The hexagonal shape actually helps cropping by providing a good solid bite on the cropper jaws. For the money, this chain represents terrible value, how Abus get away with charging more than top dollar for products that are on the whole, average, is beyond me.
the blue person seems to have more ommph. And they probably test it where you cant use the ground for leverage-like it was wrapped very tightly around.
Thats not a Fahgettaboudit chain. That chain has only 4 sides the Fahgettaboudit chain has 6 . Seems very dodgy to have one chain maker testing other chain makers chains.
So in conclusion, if a criminal wants to take your bike enough then they can. The advantage of a big chain is to act as a deterrent - a criminal knows he can find a bike with a weaker, or no chain, somewhere else.
@jclwhite, pretty much. However, it all depends whether you want to keep your bike more than the little hood rat wants to take it. If he REALLY wants it, he'll get a kangol and dig the anchor out, but if you REALLY want to keep it, you can stick an axe in his head. People who want the equation to fall in their favour will buy decent security, other people fall back on insurance, other people spend £20 on a chain then moan then their bike is stolen. But your comment is pretty much spot on.
To: anyone who goes with Almax, get the chain ONLY. The chains are tough but the locks are not much better than scrap metal and they do not answer any emails about bad locks.
@DrMotorDude, I look forward to seeing video proof of your claim. If you have bought a lock from Almax and have had a problem with it, the Squire has a 10 year guarantee and the CISA a 4 year guarantee, so if you have a genuine problem with a purchase, then phone them, if you just want to whine about something, write to the Daily Mail. You can post the link to your video of you proof here if you like.
@CaptainCropper I now see how marketing and "guarantees" work for your businesses in the UK. When the lock RUSTS, JAMS, STOPS WORKING AND THE ALMAX COMPANY IGNORES MY THREE EMAILS, I am somehow "whining" unless my "video proof" is personally provided to you? THE LOCK(s) SOLD BY ALMAX WILL CORRODE. If you're outside the UK? - no repair, no replacement.
I actually praised the Almax chain and you jump in with a personal attack? Way to 'sell the product'
@DrMotorDude, fair enough, I apologise, Youtube has it's fair share or armchair experts and I thought you were one. I'm sorry. If you want to send me some contact details via the message facility, I'll give them a ring today and ask them to contact you. If your lock has packed up then you are perfectly entitled to a replacement.This doesn't mean that they are scrap, as far as I know, no Squire lock failures have actually resulted in the theft of a motorcycle. I don't work for Almax by the way
Dear Cpt.Cropper i have a question. I agree that the almax 19mm is the best chain u can get, but what about the lock? Almax offers a squire lock for 74pounds but is it any good? I think you should give that a test too, because if the thieves can bypass it quickly then the ''big chain'' itself is pretty much useless.
@nielzbohr, Hi, The Squire lock is excellent for three reasons, 1) the design of the body makes it impossible to get a grip on the shackle with bolt croppers, 2) The shackle locks on both sides on the inside of the lock, this makes it very tricky to use a grinder to good effect, 3) The actual lock barrel where the key goes is of a very high quality, I have tested the lock with various basic lockpick tools that a thief might attempt to use and the lock stayed locked. They are also drill proof.
@ENGLANDTHEGREATEST, consider this (if you are able to) people buying chains that they THINK will last 5 minutes with 42" croppers (Sold Secure Motorcycles Gold standard) but actually only last 30 seconds, is upping the crime rate because the only people who don't know how long these chains last are the ones buying them. Thieves know what they are doing, our video offers people a solid background against which to choose their security arrangements, that's all.
@surfsup1552, a few, Almax Series 3 and Series 4, and most 16mm+ chains. There are no sub 16mm chains that I have been given that have lasted with the croppers. I tried a 14mm chain from PJB Security that performed very well indeed for a 14mm chain but it still went with the croppers, when you're securing a £10,000 bike, you need your chain to stop croppers every time, not just perform reasonably for three minutes.
Is there a good chain that you can recomend for a scooter rider to keep under the seat, something that isnt to heave and too long for use in say a city center or the like?
@loralyane, hello. If the U part of the lock is under 16mm then it can be cropped. A blowtorch will not get close to the temperature needed to melt steel. Usually, U locks are broken with hydraulic car jacks or if it has a round key, they can be opened with the right sort of pen. See my other videos for pen picking.
A note: the Kryptonite Faghteaboutit chain that has been cut in this video was the old 11mm model which two years ago has been substituted with a 14mm link model. Maybe they wouldn't cat that.
@dereshishishishishi, Hi, I wasn't aware that Kryptonite did a 14mm chain. I will look at getting one and testing it. I will publish the results. Is this chain a hexagonal one? If so, do you know if they are measured across the widest (corner to corner) or narrowest part (flat to flat) of the chain. I haven't seen a chain under 16mm that cannot be cropped.
@CaptainCropper, The chain is hexagonal, the 14mm diameter is measured across the narrowest part (flat to flat). It drops to 13.5mm in some points, as the links do not maintain a perfect regular shape in all their points. Measured with a simple ruler i don't know how accurate that is, anyway, the average corner to corner diameter is 15mm or more. I'm looking forward for a crop test, even if, resulting from what you said...
lets face it, enough leverage and you can cut through anything. of course, how many bike thieves do you think carry around four foot bolt cutters in their back pack?
@firstling1 that may be true, but professional theives will steal expensive bikes to order. They will probably drive around with gas cutting tools in their van!
I did, I ALMOST got though it, there is no excuse for making a 16mm chain ALMOST croppable. They are the nastiest heaps of scrap steel I have ever seen in chain form, bad welds, bad plating, bad hardening. There are FAR superior chains on the market for the same money.
@CaptainCropper I do agree that the quality isnt that great, but still, look at it from this perspective. Most of the chains you cropped in this video were more expensive and got gropped, whereas the Nemesis didn't.
Just curious, are there any 16mm+ high quality chains that you know of?, i live in Edinburgh city centre and my bike is going to be out open in the street of the city itself.
@CaptainCropper i am about to buy a yamaha scooter..is it better to buy a d-lock (u-lock) or a chain lock? and which one for a budget of around £50-£100?
@GBJ83,Depends if you have a point to lock the scooter to or not. If you don't have a locking point like an anchor, lamppost or similar, then you might as well buy a disc lock or D lock to put though the wheel. I can't recommend a chain in your price range, there just isn't anything good for £50-£100. My advice is to organise a secure locking point, then save up and buy a 16mm chain like an Almax, put it this way, buy right now and you can keep the same chain for all your future bikes too.
@CaptainCropper cheers CC, can I use a chain even if sometimes I cant park near a lamppost? will i fit a 16mm chain in the underseat area? i guess its mega heavy too
@GBJ83, regarding your previous question, of course you can use a chain, but if it's not actually chained TO something, all you're doing is preventing ride off theft, someone with a van will still be able to lift the bike. I guess you need to work out what kind of theft you are defending against, little hood rats riding off or thugs with vans. One more thing, scoots are the easiest things ever to secure with an Almax, ring them and they'll explain how, tell them I sent you.
For some reason or another I first saw this video on WBB and at the end was a lock they couldnt cut. In the video it isn't shown. Anybody know what lock it is? Id love to get it..
(3) Forget bolt cutters, cheap chinese angle grinders will get you through any rival chain in little time. Again, if a thief is determined enough to lug something that big around, he'll be determined enough to lug a battery powered grinder, and then, *all bets are off*.
Most of the chains in the video can be cropped with smaller croppers, we chose the 42" because that's what Sold Secure use (and failed) to "test" submitted products. This video was not intended to merely belittle smaller chains, but to expose the scam that Sold Secure has been running for years, betraying the trust of bikers and cyclists and costing them millions as a result. If you test with 42" croppers and pass something, you'd better make damned sure that it's not Graham Norton doing it.
Completely agree with your remarks on Sold Secure, there are some pretty crappy locks listed as Silver or Gold. That said, bicycle protection isn't just about having a good lock (or two), you need to know how to use it, where to park your bike, for how long, what else you can do as deterrent, the psychology of theft. Focusing on the chain alone risks detracting from this. The lock companies themselves bare some responsibility for overselling silver bullets and magic pills.
1) A lot of cyclists are linking to this, so I thought I should add a comment for them.
2) Is a van overkill for a bicycle?
3) 60 bicycles is much less money than 60 bikes.
4) The thief is just as determined (and more practiced at stealing)
5) Wear a "workman" outfit, work in a team, sound official if asked, you'd be surprised how easy it can be. Or, just say, "oh, it's mine, the lock's stuck". The passer by might help.
Hi, I think most of your questions can be answered if you watch "Gone in 60 Seconds" made by ITV. I will try and find a link to it. According to the stings in that programme, vans are seldom used in bicycle thefts, I assume because you have a better chance of getting away with your stolen bike if you are actually riding it. I agree entirely about the workman outfit, again the ITV programme displayed this perfectly. If there are cyclists reading this, then I have 2 pieces of advice...
1) Never EVER use a cable lock, even if it's double armoured with articulated segments, they are RUBBISH!
2) Use a D lock of 16mm at least, and make sure you fill the D section, lock though the bottom bracket, and if possible, get a wheel in there as well.
If it's a pain to get on, it'll be a pain to get off.
(1) If you can, lock BOTH the front and the back to an unmovable object: stops thieves using the bike itself to leverage open a lock (stopping them trying is good enough, it'll wreck your frame).
(2) Replace quick-release or regular nuts (eg. on the wheels, seat post) with tamper resistant locking skewers.
(3) Consider using an alarmed disk lock (with the other locks, not instead). £20 for 110dB of motion sensitive noise.
Even if it *IS* secure, avoid anything that makes your bike LOOK unsecure (eg. the "Sheldon Brown" locking method). An opportunistic thief may not know they have taken on a big job, but finding out half way through is too late! Your bike might survive but it'll be damaged, and this is the kind of cost your insurer may not cover. Apart from the emotional trauma, sometimes it is better if your bike HAD been stolen.
Having major probs trying to find the ITV programme, a brief synopsis seems to be that lots of stolen bikes end up on Brick Lane, most stolen bikes are ridden away after being nicked, and all of the sting bikes were secured with cables. If there's one thing that comes out of all of this, I'd like it to be that people stop using cables. Put it this way, for a cable to be thick enough to fend off cable cutters, it would be so thick that you couldn't even bend it.
The clear sleeve on many cables serves to magnify the cable inside, making it look about 50% thicker than it actually is. I'll try and find some photos.
(1) Who carries bolt cutters that big under their coats? If it's in the back of a van, you're dealing with very determined thieves, *nothing* is going to stop them.
(2) How much do replacement blades cost? On a cutter that size I'm guessing not cheap. Hundreds of pounds? That'll eat into the thief's profit margins quite a lot, wouldn't be worth it except for the most expensive bicycles.
How about testing the Masterlock tufflink chains and also the strenght of those boron shackle padlocks. Just wanna find out which brand is more durable besides the chain.
Hi Perto, if the Tuff Link chain has links under 16mm then it can be cropped. I suspect the links will be in the region of 10-12mm which means much smaller croppers can be used. "Those boron shackle padlocks" is a bit vague mate, you want to let me know which ones you're taling about?
I was referring to those Squirre, Masterlock, Abloy340, Abloy 350. Those kind of locks with boron shackles and 10-15mm in dia. But I guessed you already answered my querries. 16mm and below can be cropped. Just want to know what padlock will last together with the Almax.
There aren't many padlocks that will take a 16 or 19mm link, the Squire that Almax sells is one of them and the other decent padlock is the CISA. Almax sell matched items, everything is done to compliment the package, no point selling a kick arse chain with a cheap padlock. Best bet is to get the lot from Almax, at least then you only have them to deal with if you need to make a warranty claim on the padlock. Open shackle padlocks are generally a no-no, closed shackle is best.
Those are awful big pliers, i don't know if anyone wanders with that thing around for a quick pick on my bike (i have a standard chain 13mm to tie my bicycle when I'm in a store or something, not a valuable bike also, also got a cable lock for front wheel) A motorbike that sits outside for long time it may be concerning
There are several industrial processes for surface hardening parts. Careful selection of the starting alloy and hardening process can give you a high tensile core with a thin hard layer on the outside. I'd imagine this is what almax are doing.
The key step is the final heat treatment which probably includes rapid cooling of the outer shell of the links for maximum hardness while allowing the inner core to cool more slowly to retain ductility.
oh, sorry. What I meant is what type of heat treating/hardening process does that chain have to go through in order to make it that indestructable. Is it some special alloy steel?
I take it you're talking about the other vid with the Almax in. The steel is a very particular alloy and goes though quite a few processes in order to get that ultra hard coat but retain inner ductility. I don't actually know the specifics and given the amount of time and effort that went into the R&D of the Almax chain, I think the specifics are well guarded. I'm sure you understand.
oops, yea I meant to comment on your other video. Thanks for the info, I have never seen anything like that chain and I will definately get that same one in the future. Im from USA, about how much would it cost here? Thanks!
They're only available from the UK ( Almax US will eventually arrive), but the exchange rate and reduced taxes your end mean that you get a pretty good deal, even after shipping charges. Give them a ring on 0044 191 264 2773, they'll call you back of you don't want to hammer your phone bill.
the smaller and thicker the links are the better. plus if you have a bike in a garage then you have more security. i have 3 chains on the bike the workshop is locked and alarmed
Also, the smaller the links are, the more metal there is in the chain per meter, as a result, they are about 30% heavier than long link chains with little or no advantage.
I used 2 D-locks and an Oxford Chain on my m/bike. End of the day, its insured, and if some toerag really wants to nick it they will. All the 3 chains do is slow them down.
That's a rather simplistic view. I had a ZZR1100, someone tried to steal it by ripping off the seat and messing with the CDI, my Almax didn't slow them down, it stopped them dead. This scenario has been played out many times. People who have substandard security usually make excuses for it, if you use Oxford stuff then fair enough, go for it, but at least you have the info needed to make an informed decision now.
Thanks for making this video. I am shocked at how quickly these chains were defeated.
Is it true then that the shackle of any U-Lock can be destroyed with the same bolt cutters? Even the beefiest ones available in the US, like the Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit, seem smaller in diameter than the chains you tested.
The key here is shackle size, if the size of the metal in the D is 16mm or over, then generally you'll be safe from cropping because most D locks are hardened. What you do need to do, is never use anything with a round key (see the picking vids with pens) and make sure that you fill the lock with frame, wheel, post, whatever, if there's a gap in the D big enough for an orange, then it can be jacked and broken. I haven't encountered a chain or D lock under 16mm that can't be bolt cropped.
Captain, thanks again so much for the info. It looks like the 16mm U-locks (or D-locks) available here are the Kryptonite NY STD and the Onguard Brute STD. Both companies make ones with 18mm shackles, but in the mini size. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a longer shackle is better so it can encompass the rear wheel and the bicycle frame as well as the pole. With those three things secured, there should definitely be less space than an orange within the D.
So Captain just to be clear are there any armoured cables that make a difference at all or are they all worthless? Also how much does wrapping a chain or cable really tightly around a bike frame help? Could that make a cable/chain that is less than 16mm a decent deterrant or is there no real hope with something less than 16 mm?
Problem with cables is that they have to be thin in order to be flexible enough to use, and as a result they are open to attack from a multitude of easily available and cheap tools. I wouldn't use one on anything over £100. Wrapping a chain tightly can't hurt, anything that buys you time is a winner, wrapping a cable will make little difference as they need so little pressure to cut though. Thus far I haven't seen a sub 16mm chain that cannot be cropped.
Thanks for the reply. Its just i was watching a Dutch video where a former bike thief is going through cables and a ulock on a bike and the armoured cables seemed to take the longest. He had to twist them to get between the plates and i thought maybe if it wasnt hanging so loosely he wouldnt be able to twist it...but you are saying a decent cropper can still go straight through it armour and all?
Am about to buy a new bike myself and hoping to find a lock that doesnt weigh more than the bike :-(
I use a Kryptonite 16mm D lock on my pushie, it comes with a handy clip to make it easier to use on the bike. Ok so it's not perfect, but if you make sure there isn't toom for an orange to pass though in the D section of the lock once you're done, it should serve the purpose. If you leave a biggish gap in the D, it can be jacked.
If the Dutch thief had proper cable cutters, he's have made mincemeat of those cables in a couple of seconds. I have a vid showing the strength of cables.
1. those bolt cutters have to be the biggest availible 2.if possible I think the higher up you put the chain you cant use the floor as leverage 3 is a thick cable harder to cut??4 is thaT chain hardened? do they make titainium or stainless chain?
Dave, yes they are the biggest, but you have to assume the worse cast scenario. Makes no difference where the chain is placed, higher up will make it harder for smaller croppers, so it's not a bad idea anyway. It's better to keep the chain as short as possible by twisting it before you lock up. There isn't a security cable on the market that is even vaguely hard to cut, they look thick, but under the sheath, they are weedy and thin. The Almax goes through several hardening processes.
Dave, In the USA you can get up to 42" bolt cutters, weigh about 50 lbs and they come with $pendy price. Most places that carry them require a valid photo ID to buy them.
I agree with CptCropper, Ti and SS are too soft for security purposes, among other reasons.
Anyone find a lock, cable, or chain that takes more than 63 seconds to crop?
seangarrett92 5 days ago
@seangarrett92, Yep, no Almax chain can be cropped despite repeated and expensive attempts, also most of other the available 16mm+ chains are good as well. I can't recommend the Oxford 16mm because the manufacturing quality is so poor that it varies from link to link, one link will e rock hard, and a couple of links down will be like toffee.
CaptainCropper 5 days ago
Those men just demonstrated an enhanced level of experience in stealing bikes.
I'm reporting you to the cops! (☜joke)
No, but seriously, if my bike gets stolen I'll come looking for you. ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
MilkmanJack 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Wrap the chain in aluminium adhesive tape 3 times all around the chain. Wipe it with Vaseline then wrap some cut plastic bags all around the chain again by using some adhesive tape again. the thiefs have to get their hands and Bolt cutter dirty now before trying to cut the god damn chain.
SciTechExplained 2 months ago
Might look a little suspect in the middle of a car park..
meltonblackspider 2 months ago
How many thieves carry around 4 foot bolt cutters? Better yet how many can carry them concealed from view? These tests are not that useful. These is assuming a best case scenario for the thief. For this to happen it would pretty much take an organized ring of criminals. That's hardly the case. 99.9% of the time is young punks looking to make a quick score.
AutodromoF1 2 months ago
@AutodromoF1 I agree with the last sentence you typed, but how hard do you think it is for a kid on a scooter to throw a bag over their shoulder with a set of bolt cutters in it, then cruise around a few car parks and make a phone call when he finds something. 10 minutes later a transit van shows up and 30 seconds after that your bike is inside it.
I think you're a bit naive my friend, the only sure fire answer to this kind of theft is to catch them in the act.
Hrungenir 1 week ago
a great tip for your bike security in the garage a tomy digital td 300 baby monitor and a rape alarm on some fishing wire . works a treat and its 2 way so if they do go into the garage you can tell them to f**k off aswell
staggysgasgas 2 months ago
best lock is the 1 called insurance ...... i do use a lock in this vid tho and am not surprised 1 bit how long it took to cut off ....always keep the lock off the ground and always tight as possible ...
xr650rBRP1X 2 months ago
@xr650rBRP1X - Police should be allow to beat on them severely until they bleed. I had my first bike stolen when I was 10, b*stard walked right into the utility room of our house while my mother was cooking dinner, she thought it was me(bathroom style glass).
I think one of the best is hidden gps transmitter - f*ck calling the cops, just go round with a baseball bat and some firelighters.
Hrungenir 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
so what i should buy to protect my bike ? a 16mm U lock cant be cut off with the aid of hacksaw ?
i believe that alarm with noise detection could help a lot and also immobilizer so thieves won't be able to turn an 125cc innova on power by connecting the wires....
leonidasgr2003 3 months ago
Think the bolt cutters are long enough, and a giant dude putting all his weight on it lol. Try that with a U lock
rd91sib18zex 3 months ago
@rd91sib18zex, if it's a U lock with a sub 16mm shackle, it will make no difference, still croppable. In fact, a badly used U lock is even easier to break than a chain, you just jack them open. Use a 16mm U lock correctly and it should stop someone riding off.
CaptainCropper 3 months ago
Now I know why it's recommended to keep the chain off the ground and to leave as little slack as possible; make it as difficult as you can to get croppers to the links!
Great video.
somecrapname1 4 months ago
that guy needs to lay off the chicken cottage and do some excersise
hoah 4 months ago
@hoah, I agree, what a handsome lard arse he is.
CaptainCropper 4 months ago
If they really want your bike, they WILL steal it.
Doesnt matter how many chains u put on it. (portable slijptol)
marcovit 4 months ago
@marcovit, if you want to keep it more than they want to take it, you will keep it.
CaptainCropper 4 months ago
@CaptainCropper Or they just beat u up for the keys or when your unlocking it ;)
marcovit 4 months ago
Comment removed
blingblauw 3 months ago
During the day at least, who's gonna carry heavy-duty chain cutters around? :P Mainly at night i guess the problem lies, use a couple of disk locks, and obscure the lock as best you can with bike covers.
Reincarnhate925 5 months ago
buy a dog instead of a lock :-P
and train him to atack any1 who looks at your bike
michelenruben 5 months ago
This video is very depressing, because now i dont know atall waht kind of lock should i buy for my new bike
late95 5 months ago
@late95, have a look at my other video, it might help you.
CaptainCropper 5 months ago
Where you buy this PRO cutters?:)
galahubert 6 months ago
u loved saved my bike 200 quid well spent thanks
ytogz 6 months ago
@vsegdaprotiv, I'll pass that on to the slimmer one, it'll make his day :o)
CaptainCropper 7 months ago
@captainCropper
Great vid by the way. I have a question regarding disk locks, are they indeed more secure than chains. Of course a disk lock cant secure you to ground point but are they as useless?
i guess the tip is to wrap the chain up so there is little slack?
N3orion 7 months ago
@N3orion, a disk lock is only of any use against someone who is NOT armed with an allen key to undo the bolts on the brake disk and a cable tie to keep it out of the way while it is pushed or ridden off. Best thing to do is get one that fits over the rear sprocket and chain, although that will probably just be a padlock, but to be honest, you're better off with a £50 padlock than a £50 disk lock. If you MUST use one, then the Motrax Vishas is pretty good. Twist the chain to take up slack.
CaptainCropper 7 months ago
Captain cropper can you put up a list of chains you recomend and something for all budgets please
MrTopbreak 7 months ago
@MrTopbreak, that's not as easy as it sounds because cost, in this situation, is by no means an indication of quality. Once the chains get below 14mm or so, they become very similar in performance so there's not much point in paying £120 for an Oxford when a £29 chain of the same size and with similar padlock will last as long under the croppers. Basically, if you want to force noisy attacks then a 16mm or 19mm Almax with a decent anchor is at the top, then the Pragmasis 16 +19, then PJB 14mm+
CaptainCropper 7 months ago
Without going through all the posts, do the makers of the video recommend any chains/locks or are they saying that none do what they say on the tin
MrTopbreak 7 months ago
Shit, I don't think that all thieves weight 250 pounds
kosmosleha 7 months ago
HOW DO I PROTECT MY BIKE ? ....please help. I have no garage.
85Damix 8 months ago
@85Damix Put a 2 meter long Yeti on a chain close to your bike...
syav88 7 months ago
I'd happily see that cropper used on thieving scums' nads.
tigersim303 8 months ago
"We are all so dooooomed..."
sz004 9 months ago
got to love this chain cuter will cut anything
grego10r 9 months ago
Best idea would be to keep the chain as high as possible, not on the floor, chained to something knee level or higher, then you can't get the kind of leverage the guy in the video is exploiting.
Would you agree ?
BIGPIMPINUPDANYC 9 months ago
@BIGPIMPINUPDANYC - You need to look at how he positioned the bolt cutter and its angle ends which would allow him to get leverage in either situation. If the chain is tout and hanging in the air then all he has to do is apply downward force. Also you have to remember that these guys weren't trying to damage the bike while attempting this but you can be sure as hell actual thieves wouldn't be as merciful.
d0gM3at 8 months ago
i know my chain is not full proof, no form of security is...its just a deterrent. The common thief will not mess with a chain that size, it would take at least 2 thieves with a plan and the right equipment...possible but far less likely. And you can bet someone who is anchoring their bike that well probably has a secondary security feature...so I hope, for the criminals sake, they know how to locate it and defeat it...grand theft auto earns you prison time with murderers.
MrTyronePimp 9 months ago
@MrTyronePimp, not over here it doesn't. Stealing vehicles is easy money in the UK, good returns, very little risk of being caught and even if you ARE caught, the sentences are pathetic.
CaptainCropper 9 months ago 5
@CaptainCropper what would you get for stealing a motorcycle ... say, this one in the video.
kosmosleha 7 months ago
@kosmosleha, a youth would get three warnings for stealing vehicles before actually going to court. They'd have to be caught THREE TIMES before even getting sentenced. An adult would probably get community service, certainly not imprisonment unless they are chronically crap serial bike thieves or they have stolen a quad from a golf club where the judge plays. This is why it's so important to take resposibility for securing your pride and joy, the law is NOT on our side and is no deterrent.
CaptainCropper 7 months ago 3
Hey, I watched this video and showed it to my friends. We are freaked out, because we live in Argentina and we dont have any +16mm chain on market to purchase. Any suggestions? Thanks
kronoman 9 months ago
This video depresses me. How will ever sleep at night now!
RichasB 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Thank you very much for your answer.Is it important that the Squire Ex-Caliber is through and case hardened and the Almax chain for example is only case hardened?By the way,I don't live in England and i have sent e-mail to Almax twice to ask them if they deliver their products in my country but unfortunately they don't answer me.
acb101010 9 months ago
Hi Mr.CC, what is your opinion about Squire Ex-Caliber 16mm chain?Description:16mm Dia x 1.5m Long Link Security chain,Highest Grade Alloy Steel,Through and case hardened process for maximum strength and security.Can be bolt cropped by hand?
acb101010 9 months ago
@acb101010 , Hello, I haven't tried the Squire chain yet, but going by the specifications, I'd be pretty confident it's not possible to crop it. Just make sure that if you buy one, it comes with a good lock like the Squire SC65 and that you use an anchor too.
CaptainCropper 9 months ago
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acb101010 9 months ago
Comment removed
acb101010 9 months ago
One day I lost my lock key at my friends place. I went home to get a big Hitachi angle grinder. I cut my chain in broad day light with that grinder and nobody reacted. This was not even in my street so nobody knew me. I was shocked that I was left alone to do that. Nobody even called the police!!!!!!!!!!!!!
myScooterchannel 10 months ago
fuck that,iv got boat chain its 26mm thick links it cost me £25 a metre which is cheap as chips,no fucking bolt cutters are cutting through that,only a grinder would and no thief is guna wana noisy grinder cutting away.
smegturbo 11 months ago
@smegturbo, good for you. What padlock are you using? FYI, boat chain is made soft, it's meant to be soft, and as such, it can be sawn with hacksaws.
CaptainCropper 11 months ago
@CaptainCropper stainless steel chain mate with hardened steel armoured padlock i lock my bike up with 3 of these chains, would take fucking ages to cut with a hacksaw thiefs dnt wana be there for ages fucking around with a saw at the end of the day,they want to be in and out fast with bot cutters,42"bolt cutters will piss throgh hardened steel chains that cost in excess of £80 as seen in the video,
smegturbo 11 months ago
@smegturbo, you raise some valid points. At least you have made the effort to secure your bike to your own standards rather than relying on the Sold Secure sticker.
CaptainCropper 11 months ago
@CaptainCropper yerh sometimes its better to just have a think at securing things a differant way,rather than just taking for granted whats on the market,just cnt understand why they dnt supply hardened steel chains with thicker links that bolt cutters and handsaws would never get through?
smegturbo 10 months ago
@smegturbo, they do mate. Almax sell 16mm and 19mm chains with padlocks to suit. The reason behind this vid was to raise awareness of Almax chains and also to expose the crappy level of testing carried out by Sold Secure. All the chains in the vid were Sold Secure Gold for motorcycles, that means they resisted 5 minutes cropping attack with 42" Record croppers. As you can see, they didn't resist much when we did them.
CaptainCropper 10 months ago
@smegturbo Were do you get boat chains from? Do you know any sites i could buy one from?
spikmun 10 months ago
funny to hear her pronounce 'fahgettaboudit' as if at a tea party.
2ndAsstJizzMopper 1 year ago
questo è tutto falso, è solo pubblicità per catene almax ... farabutti
this is everything forgery, it is only publicity for chains almax... scoundrels
ullabatulla1 1 year ago
@ullabatulla1, meh, this comment is so plebian it's barely worth responding to.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
So it has been established that it is indeed relatively easy to break a chain. The question is just how on earth is a person supposed to secure his bike?
zabara99 1 year ago
@zabara99, BIG chain and a ground anchor. By big I mean with 16mm+ links and a CEN 6 padlock to suit. If you're out and about, I found that the Motrax Vishas is a particularly tough little disc lock. Feel free to send me an email if you need specific advice.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
@zabara99
The answer is remarkably easy. The chain must be on air so the thief can't use his bodyweight for levering.
Existentialexplosion 1 year ago
I can do this in less than 30sec without tools. I just take "magic acid (really exists)" or some alloy and magnesia from my laboratory.
Frunkenstein 1 year ago
@Frunkenstein, I too have used magic acid which allowed me to do amazing and unlikely things.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
I actually found myself rooting for the little guy in denim. "Go on, go on, yahoooow ye good thing" :)
derekmcgoldrick 1 year ago
scary...
garra48 1 year ago
I like the use of denim so we know which the thief is.
giraffesr0ck 1 year ago
17 seconds? with a van to move your tools? I can do it in 3, with a cute muffled generator and an angle grinder. oh no wait, anyone can.
the5thFallenAngel 1 year ago
@the5thFallenAngel 18V Dewalt doesnt need the generator, it is slower than a 110v unit but way more portable does a about 20Mins on one charge.
Chrnewnham 1 year ago
It's not fair to attack those chains with such a big cropper! They were clearly designed to withstand scissors or perhaps some hand wire cutter.
Does make you wonder just what tests these manufacturers actually perform on them. 5 minutes of what? Someone with a hacksaw they bought for £5 at Homebase?
retread01 1 year ago
are you planning to cut the ABUS Granit Power Chain 37?
oiaisso 1 year ago
@oiaisso, hello, no point, it's an 11mm chain, there isn't an 11mm chain that can't be cut with croppers. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that you could use far smaller croppers than we use for this chain. The hexagonal shape actually helps cropping by providing a good solid bite on the cropper jaws. For the money, this chain represents terrible value, how Abus get away with charging more than top dollar for products that are on the whole, average, is beyond me.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
the blue person seems to have more ommph. And they probably test it where you cant use the ground for leverage-like it was wrapped very tightly around.
bestSVMS 1 year ago
is difficult in a city a thief carry a so big cutter
plasticpunch 1 year ago
@plasticpunch, easy in a van.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
your man in the denim looks like he has done that a few times nice moves LOL have you tryed chopping the Krall make of chains???
smokethepancakes 1 year ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
Thats not a Fahgettaboudit chain. That chain has only 4 sides the Fahgettaboudit chain has 6 . Seems very dodgy to have one chain maker testing other chain makers chains.
whitedragon101 1 year ago
Comment removed
whitedragon101 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You should also mention how thick the other chains are.
GamerBR 1 year ago
So in conclusion, if a criminal wants to take your bike enough then they can. The advantage of a big chain is to act as a deterrent - a criminal knows he can find a bike with a weaker, or no chain, somewhere else.
jclwhite 1 year ago
@jclwhite, pretty much. However, it all depends whether you want to keep your bike more than the little hood rat wants to take it. If he REALLY wants it, he'll get a kangol and dig the anchor out, but if you REALLY want to keep it, you can stick an axe in his head. People who want the equation to fall in their favour will buy decent security, other people fall back on insurance, other people spend £20 on a chain then moan then their bike is stolen. But your comment is pretty much spot on.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago 2
@CaptainCropper I believe the axe method is a very good deterrent.
RABiDCHiMPANZii 1 year ago
To: anyone who goes with Almax, get the chain ONLY. The chains are tough but the locks are not much better than scrap metal and they do not answer any emails about bad locks.
DrMotorDude 1 year ago
@DrMotorDude, I look forward to seeing video proof of your claim. If you have bought a lock from Almax and have had a problem with it, the Squire has a 10 year guarantee and the CISA a 4 year guarantee, so if you have a genuine problem with a purchase, then phone them, if you just want to whine about something, write to the Daily Mail. You can post the link to your video of you proof here if you like.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
@CaptainCropper I now see how marketing and "guarantees" work for your businesses in the UK. When the lock RUSTS, JAMS, STOPS WORKING AND THE ALMAX COMPANY IGNORES MY THREE EMAILS, I am somehow "whining" unless my "video proof" is personally provided to you? THE LOCK(s) SOLD BY ALMAX WILL CORRODE. If you're outside the UK? - no repair, no replacement.
I actually praised the Almax chain and you jump in with a personal attack? Way to 'sell the product'
DrMotorDude 1 year ago
@DrMotorDude, fair enough, I apologise, Youtube has it's fair share or armchair experts and I thought you were one. I'm sorry. If you want to send me some contact details via the message facility, I'll give them a ring today and ask them to contact you. If your lock has packed up then you are perfectly entitled to a replacement.This doesn't mean that they are scrap, as far as I know, no Squire lock failures have actually resulted in the theft of a motorcycle. I don't work for Almax by the way
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
Dear Cpt.Cropper i have a question. I agree that the almax 19mm is the best chain u can get, but what about the lock? Almax offers a squire lock for 74pounds but is it any good? I think you should give that a test too, because if the thieves can bypass it quickly then the ''big chain'' itself is pretty much useless.
Do you suggest any lock from your experience?
Thanks in advance
nielzbohr 1 year ago
@nielzbohr, Hi, The Squire lock is excellent for three reasons, 1) the design of the body makes it impossible to get a grip on the shackle with bolt croppers, 2) The shackle locks on both sides on the inside of the lock, this makes it very tricky to use a grinder to good effect, 3) The actual lock barrel where the key goes is of a very high quality, I have tested the lock with various basic lockpick tools that a thief might attempt to use and the lock stayed locked. They are also drill proof.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
0:17 lmao
Typhoon10UK 1 year ago
Handy tool you got there lads;)
But really made me think twice!
letmein2121 1 year ago
fucking idiots whoever this video, you just upped the crime rate.
DICKS
ENGLANDTHEGREATEST 1 year ago
@ENGLANDTHEGREATEST, consider this (if you are able to) people buying chains that they THINK will last 5 minutes with 42" croppers (Sold Secure Motorcycles Gold standard) but actually only last 30 seconds, is upping the crime rate because the only people who don't know how long these chains last are the ones buying them. Thieves know what they are doing, our video offers people a solid background against which to choose their security arrangements, that's all.
Now back in your box.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago 4
@CaptainCropper is there any chain that will stop choppers.?
surfsup1552 1 year ago
@surfsup1552, a few, Almax Series 3 and Series 4, and most 16mm+ chains. There are no sub 16mm chains that I have been given that have lasted with the croppers. I tried a 14mm chain from PJB Security that performed very well indeed for a 14mm chain but it still went with the croppers, when you're securing a £10,000 bike, you need your chain to stop croppers every time, not just perform reasonably for three minutes.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
Hello mister is that my bike your trying to steal?? here have a Magnum .357" through your head! ha ha!
wayne205stevens 1 year ago
then i come out of my house and put a moonroof in his head!! simply!!
christophersboy 1 year ago
Is there a good chain that you can recomend for a scooter rider to keep under the seat, something that isnt to heave and too long for use in say a city center or the like?
wwwNooBcom 1 year ago
and for a U ? mine seems to resist all my attempts to cut it (the lock is broken). i try a lot of things, even a blowtorch, and nothing.
loralyane 1 year ago
@loralyane, hello. If the U part of the lock is under 16mm then it can be cropped. A blowtorch will not get close to the temperature needed to melt steel. Usually, U locks are broken with hydraulic car jacks or if it has a round key, they can be opened with the right sort of pen. See my other videos for pen picking.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
A note: the Kryptonite Faghteaboutit chain that has been cut in this video was the old 11mm model which two years ago has been substituted with a 14mm link model. Maybe they wouldn't cat that.
dereshishishishishi 1 year ago
@dereshishishishishi, Hi, I wasn't aware that Kryptonite did a 14mm chain. I will look at getting one and testing it. I will publish the results. Is this chain a hexagonal one? If so, do you know if they are measured across the widest (corner to corner) or narrowest part (flat to flat) of the chain. I haven't seen a chain under 16mm that cannot be cropped.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
@CaptainCropper, The chain is hexagonal, the 14mm diameter is measured across the narrowest part (flat to flat). It drops to 13.5mm in some points, as the links do not maintain a perfect regular shape in all their points. Measured with a simple ruler i don't know how accurate that is, anyway, the average corner to corner diameter is 15mm or more. I'm looking forward for a crop test, even if, resulting from what you said...
dereshishishishishi 1 year ago
lets face it, enough leverage and you can cut through anything. of course, how many bike thieves do you think carry around four foot bolt cutters in their back pack?
not very inconspicuous
firstling1 1 year ago
@firstling1 that may be true, but professional theives will steal expensive bikes to order. They will probably drive around with gas cutting tools in their van!
infinity26890 1 year ago
@firstling1, none, they'd have them in the van. They DO have vans, usually stolen ones.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
@CaptainCropper You should have tried the Oxford Nemesis, 16mm thick
wolfyys 1 year ago
I did, I ALMOST got though it, there is no excuse for making a 16mm chain ALMOST croppable. They are the nastiest heaps of scrap steel I have ever seen in chain form, bad welds, bad plating, bad hardening. There are FAR superior chains on the market for the same money.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
@CaptainCropper I do agree that the quality isnt that great, but still, look at it from this perspective. Most of the chains you cropped in this video were more expensive and got gropped, whereas the Nemesis didn't.
Just curious, are there any 16mm+ high quality chains that you know of?, i live in Edinburgh city centre and my bike is going to be out open in the street of the city itself.
cheers
wolfyys 1 year ago
@CaptainCropper Also, do you have a video on your attempt at the Oxford Nemesis?
cheers
wolfyys 1 year ago
@CaptainCropper i am about to buy a yamaha scooter..is it better to buy a d-lock (u-lock) or a chain lock? and which one for a budget of around £50-£100?
please answer! thanks a lot Captain Cropper
GBJ83 1 year ago
@GBJ83,Depends if you have a point to lock the scooter to or not. If you don't have a locking point like an anchor, lamppost or similar, then you might as well buy a disc lock or D lock to put though the wheel. I can't recommend a chain in your price range, there just isn't anything good for £50-£100. My advice is to organise a secure locking point, then save up and buy a 16mm chain like an Almax, put it this way, buy right now and you can keep the same chain for all your future bikes too.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
@CaptainCropper cheers CC, can I use a chain even if sometimes I cant park near a lamppost? will i fit a 16mm chain in the underseat area? i guess its mega heavy too
GBJ83 1 year ago
@CaptainCropper im going to get 1.5m series 3 with squire lock from almax thanks. it weighs a whole stone but i really hope it fits in my seat
GBJ83 1 year ago
@GBJ83, regarding your previous question, of course you can use a chain, but if it's not actually chained TO something, all you're doing is preventing ride off theft, someone with a van will still be able to lift the bike. I guess you need to work out what kind of theft you are defending against, little hood rats riding off or thugs with vans. One more thing, scoots are the easiest things ever to secure with an Almax, ring them and they'll explain how, tell them I sent you.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
For some reason or another I first saw this video on WBB and at the end was a lock they couldnt cut. In the video it isn't shown. Anybody know what lock it is? Id love to get it..
Any help appreciated
THEJEDEYEMASTER 1 year ago
@THEJEDEYEMASTER, have a look at the other vids on the channel, the one that can't be cropped is on there.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
awesome vid.but scary at the same time
heratus007 1 year ago
Oh, and ...
(3) Forget bolt cutters, cheap chinese angle grinders will get you through any rival chain in little time. Again, if a thief is determined enough to lug something that big around, he'll be determined enough to lug a battery powered grinder, and then, *all bets are off*.
Just a thought.
stationmorgan 1 year ago
1) This video is not aimed at cyclists.
2) Motorcycle thieves have vans, no need to hide croppers in their jackets.
3) You can steal about 60 bikes on a set of blades, seems like a good deal to me.
4) I don't care how determined a bike theif is, if I am more determined to keep my bike than he is to take it, then I WILL keep my bike.
5) Angle grinders make LOTS of noise, once you're going down that route, the clock is ticking very quickly.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
Most of the chains in the video can be cropped with smaller croppers, we chose the 42" because that's what Sold Secure use (and failed) to "test" submitted products. This video was not intended to merely belittle smaller chains, but to expose the scam that Sold Secure has been running for years, betraying the trust of bikers and cyclists and costing them millions as a result. If you test with 42" croppers and pass something, you'd better make damned sure that it's not Graham Norton doing it.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
Completely agree with your remarks on Sold Secure, there are some pretty crappy locks listed as Silver or Gold. That said, bicycle protection isn't just about having a good lock (or two), you need to know how to use it, where to park your bike, for how long, what else you can do as deterrent, the psychology of theft. Focusing on the chain alone risks detracting from this. The lock companies themselves bare some responsibility for overselling silver bullets and magic pills.
stationmorgan 1 year ago
Not to mention the very sneaky Kryptonite £2500 theft guarantee. Again, I agree with your other points.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
Apparently some bike thieves have tried claiming the guarantee by sending Kryptonite the very locks they cut off! It's turned into an incentive!
stationmorgan 1 year ago
Hello Captain,
1) A lot of cyclists are linking to this, so I thought I should add a comment for them.
2) Is a van overkill for a bicycle?
3) 60 bicycles is much less money than 60 bikes.
4) The thief is just as determined (and more practiced at stealing)
5) Wear a "workman" outfit, work in a team, sound official if asked, you'd be surprised how easy it can be. Or, just say, "oh, it's mine, the lock's stuck". The passer by might help.
stationmorgan 1 year ago
Hi, I think most of your questions can be answered if you watch "Gone in 60 Seconds" made by ITV. I will try and find a link to it. According to the stings in that programme, vans are seldom used in bicycle thefts, I assume because you have a better chance of getting away with your stolen bike if you are actually riding it. I agree entirely about the workman outfit, again the ITV programme displayed this perfectly. If there are cyclists reading this, then I have 2 pieces of advice...
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
1) Never EVER use a cable lock, even if it's double armoured with articulated segments, they are RUBBISH!
2) Use a D lock of 16mm at least, and make sure you fill the D section, lock though the bottom bracket, and if possible, get a wheel in there as well.
If it's a pain to get on, it'll be a pain to get off.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
That's good advice. Thanks Captain.
I've heard of the ITV programme, but can't track it down. If you find a recording (or anyone else...), I'd love to see it.
Additional advice:
(1) Use two locks, ideally different kinds.
(2) Your back wheel is often most valuable, so use your best lock here, ideally through the wheel, frame, and an immovable object.
(3) Don't forget to lock your front wheel! Use a mini D lock, not a cable (of any sort) locked to/through the frame (not the fork!).
(4) Hope.
stationmorgan 1 year ago
More advanced advice:
(1) If you can, lock BOTH the front and the back to an unmovable object: stops thieves using the bike itself to leverage open a lock (stopping them trying is good enough, it'll wreck your frame).
(2) Replace quick-release or regular nuts (eg. on the wheels, seat post) with tamper resistant locking skewers.
(3) Consider using an alarmed disk lock (with the other locks, not instead). £20 for 110dB of motion sensitive noise.
stationmorgan 1 year ago 2
And lastly ...
REMEMBER
Even if it *IS* secure, avoid anything that makes your bike LOOK unsecure (eg. the "Sheldon Brown" locking method). An opportunistic thief may not know they have taken on a big job, but finding out half way through is too late! Your bike might survive but it'll be damaged, and this is the kind of cost your insurer may not cover. Apart from the emotional trauma, sometimes it is better if your bike HAD been stolen.
Good luck!
stationmorgan 1 year ago
Good stuff. Thank you.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
Having major probs trying to find the ITV programme, a brief synopsis seems to be that lots of stolen bikes end up on Brick Lane, most stolen bikes are ridden away after being nicked, and all of the sting bikes were secured with cables. If there's one thing that comes out of all of this, I'd like it to be that people stop using cables. Put it this way, for a cable to be thick enough to fend off cable cutters, it would be so thick that you couldn't even bend it.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
The clear sleeve on many cables serves to magnify the cable inside, making it look about 50% thicker than it actually is. I'll try and find some photos.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
THOUGHTS FOR BICYCLISTS
(1) Who carries bolt cutters that big under their coats? If it's in the back of a van, you're dealing with very determined thieves, *nothing* is going to stop them.
(2) How much do replacement blades cost? On a cutter that size I'm guessing not cheap. Hundreds of pounds? That'll eat into the thief's profit margins quite a lot, wouldn't be worth it except for the most expensive bicycles.
stationmorgan 1 year ago
How about testing the Masterlock tufflink chains and also the strenght of those boron shackle padlocks. Just wanna find out which brand is more durable besides the chain.
perto75 1 year ago
Hi Perto, if the Tuff Link chain has links under 16mm then it can be cropped. I suspect the links will be in the region of 10-12mm which means much smaller croppers can be used. "Those boron shackle padlocks" is a bit vague mate, you want to let me know which ones you're taling about?
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
I was referring to those Squirre, Masterlock, Abloy340, Abloy 350. Those kind of locks with boron shackles and 10-15mm in dia. But I guessed you already answered my querries. 16mm and below can be cropped. Just want to know what padlock will last together with the Almax.
perto75 1 year ago
There aren't many padlocks that will take a 16 or 19mm link, the Squire that Almax sells is one of them and the other decent padlock is the CISA. Almax sell matched items, everything is done to compliment the package, no point selling a kick arse chain with a cheap padlock. Best bet is to get the lot from Almax, at least then you only have them to deal with if you need to make a warranty claim on the padlock. Open shackle padlocks are generally a no-no, closed shackle is best.
CaptainCropper 1 year ago
ive got bolt cutters that big. the handles are in 3 sections each. all fits under loops in my backpack.
UBERKron 1 year ago
Dang. You folks should wear eye protection doing that stuff.
pimpb0tt 2 years ago 2
Awesome vid- I'm not going to waste my money on chains!
kiwimike70 2 years ago
well its a question of leverage wtf u coudl lengten teh handles of the bold cutter haha
AmericansSexualPreds 2 years ago
Those are awful big pliers, i don't know if anyone wanders with that thing around for a quick pick on my bike (i have a standard chain 13mm to tie my bicycle when I'm in a store or something, not a valuable bike also, also got a cable lock for front wheel) A motorbike that sits outside for long time it may be concerning
AzzyAsi 2 years ago
There are several industrial processes for surface hardening parts. Careful selection of the starting alloy and hardening process can give you a high tensile core with a thin hard layer on the outside. I'd imagine this is what almax are doing.
The key step is the final heat treatment which probably includes rapid cooling of the outer shell of the links for maximum hardness while allowing the inner core to cool more slowly to retain ductility.
dowsell 2 years ago
how do you guys hardened the steel? really could use that chain on some of my powertools!
Brute4rce 2 years ago
Hello, not quite sure what you're asking here. You asking if the croppers are hardened?
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
oh, sorry. What I meant is what type of heat treating/hardening process does that chain have to go through in order to make it that indestructable. Is it some special alloy steel?
Brute4rce 2 years ago
I take it you're talking about the other vid with the Almax in. The steel is a very particular alloy and goes though quite a few processes in order to get that ultra hard coat but retain inner ductility. I don't actually know the specifics and given the amount of time and effort that went into the R&D of the Almax chain, I think the specifics are well guarded. I'm sure you understand.
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
oops, yea I meant to comment on your other video. Thanks for the info, I have never seen anything like that chain and I will definately get that same one in the future. Im from USA, about how much would it cost here? Thanks!
Brute4rce 2 years ago
They're only available from the UK ( Almax US will eventually arrive), but the exchange rate and reduced taxes your end mean that you get a pretty good deal, even after shipping charges. Give them a ring on 0044 191 264 2773, they'll call you back of you don't want to hammer your phone bill.
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
the smaller and thicker the links are the better. plus if you have a bike in a garage then you have more security. i have 3 chains on the bike the workshop is locked and alarmed
fireisgreat 2 years ago
Also, the smaller the links are, the more metal there is in the chain per meter, as a result, they are about 30% heavier than long link chains with little or no advantage.
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
Looks like these guys have a lot of experience at this................
snifnscratch 2 years ago
make and model of bolt cutters please.....
e155lut 2 years ago
Same as Sold Secure use. Why?
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
I used 2 D-locks and an Oxford Chain on my m/bike. End of the day, its insured, and if some toerag really wants to nick it they will. All the 3 chains do is slow them down.
Eztoez 2 years ago
That's a rather simplistic view. I had a ZZR1100, someone tried to steal it by ripping off the seat and messing with the CDI, my Almax didn't slow them down, it stopped them dead. This scenario has been played out many times. People who have substandard security usually make excuses for it, if you use Oxford stuff then fair enough, go for it, but at least you have the info needed to make an informed decision now.
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
Do you wana sell me your bolt cutters?
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
makeminealarge1 2 years ago
They'll be completely useless on my bike :p
kawaiiultraneo 2 years ago
Thanks for making this video. I am shocked at how quickly these chains were defeated.
Is it true then that the shackle of any U-Lock can be destroyed with the same bolt cutters? Even the beefiest ones available in the US, like the Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboudit, seem smaller in diameter than the chains you tested.
porkstamina 2 years ago
The key here is shackle size, if the size of the metal in the D is 16mm or over, then generally you'll be safe from cropping because most D locks are hardened. What you do need to do, is never use anything with a round key (see the picking vids with pens) and make sure that you fill the lock with frame, wheel, post, whatever, if there's a gap in the D big enough for an orange, then it can be jacked and broken. I haven't encountered a chain or D lock under 16mm that can't be bolt cropped.
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
Captain, thanks again so much for the info. It looks like the 16mm U-locks (or D-locks) available here are the Kryptonite NY STD and the Onguard Brute STD. Both companies make ones with 18mm shackles, but in the mini size. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a longer shackle is better so it can encompass the rear wheel and the bicycle frame as well as the pole. With those three things secured, there should definitely be less space than an orange within the D.
porkstamina 2 years ago
Comment removed
porkstamina 2 years ago
So Captain just to be clear are there any armoured cables that make a difference at all or are they all worthless? Also how much does wrapping a chain or cable really tightly around a bike frame help? Could that make a cable/chain that is less than 16mm a decent deterrant or is there no real hope with something less than 16 mm?
haroldpark 2 years ago
Problem with cables is that they have to be thin in order to be flexible enough to use, and as a result they are open to attack from a multitude of easily available and cheap tools. I wouldn't use one on anything over £100. Wrapping a chain tightly can't hurt, anything that buys you time is a winner, wrapping a cable will make little difference as they need so little pressure to cut though. Thus far I haven't seen a sub 16mm chain that cannot be cropped.
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
Thanks for the reply. Its just i was watching a Dutch video where a former bike thief is going through cables and a ulock on a bike and the armoured cables seemed to take the longest. He had to twist them to get between the plates and i thought maybe if it wasnt hanging so loosely he wouldnt be able to twist it...but you are saying a decent cropper can still go straight through it armour and all?
Am about to buy a new bike myself and hoping to find a lock that doesnt weigh more than the bike :-(
haroldpark 2 years ago
I use a Kryptonite 16mm D lock on my pushie, it comes with a handy clip to make it easier to use on the bike. Ok so it's not perfect, but if you make sure there isn't toom for an orange to pass though in the D section of the lock once you're done, it should serve the purpose. If you leave a biggish gap in the D, it can be jacked.
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
If the Dutch thief had proper cable cutters, he's have made mincemeat of those cables in a couple of seconds. I have a vid showing the strength of cables.
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
1. those bolt cutters have to be the biggest availible 2.if possible I think the higher up you put the chain you cant use the floor as leverage 3 is a thick cable harder to cut??4 is thaT chain hardened? do they make titainium or stainless chain?
davetileguy 2 years ago
Dave, yes they are the biggest, but you have to assume the worse cast scenario. Makes no difference where the chain is placed, higher up will make it harder for smaller croppers, so it's not a bad idea anyway. It's better to keep the chain as short as possible by twisting it before you lock up. There isn't a security cable on the market that is even vaguely hard to cut, they look thick, but under the sheath, they are weedy and thin. The Almax goes through several hardening processes.
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
and...no, stainless is not a suitable metal for a chain, nor is titanium (expensive, brittle, hard to work, expensive to weld, the list goes on)
CaptainCropper 2 years ago
Dave, In the USA you can get up to 42" bolt cutters, weigh about 50 lbs and they come with $pendy price. Most places that carry them require a valid photo ID to buy them.
I agree with CptCropper, Ti and SS are too soft for security purposes, among other reasons.
DrMotorDude 2 years ago