DS activists kill their opponents, it´s not the other way around.
Tibetans fear these people because of their close links to the People´s Republic of China. China is providing political and financial support to DS groups all over the world. New DS centres keep popping up.. I guess the most recent example is North America Gelug Buddhist Association...
A Swiss TV documentary made in 1997 paints an even grimmer picture. The documentary shows evidence of violence and even death threats towards Dorje Shugden practitioners with wanted posters of Dorje Shugden adherents being posted in Dharamsala, encouraging violence towards practitioners
The Tsem Tulku Organization runs wwwdorjeshugdencom, they are also the ones dropping DS pamphlets all over Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. People who leave the organization or otherwise find out their secret are subject to abuse and death threats. Kechara House is a dangerous cult that has betrayed His Holiness the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan Community, and most of all, Gaden Shartse Monastery. Please circulate this information far and wide.
This is a perfect example of the serious flaw of the guru system. The 'holy' teacher demands absolute trust and obedience from his disciples - some might say slaves -in order to realise transformation of some kind. What is communicated is always less than perfect - sometimes radically so - and the poor disciple whose brain has become a mindless sponge soaks up all the neuroses of the guru. This issue threatens to undo the vast amount of good done by the Dalai Lama.
Six men, with connection to the Shugden Society in Delhi, got away with a triple murder in Dharamsala 1997. They fled to China´s Tibet. In 2007 Interpol issued red notices to China for extraditing the two main suspects.They are accused of the "ritualistic killing" of two monks an one Gelug lama (director of the School of Tibetan Dialectics).
this shows the perfect example of problems with combining religion and politics and people are still cheering for the restoration of dalai lama system in tibet.
@Varavaken chinese communist system is the weirdest system in the world (not social or capatalism). in most western countries, church and state are two complete entities which produces a much manageble situation
Ever since the cult controversy there has been an increased threat to the life of the Dalai Lama.
Four years ago, 2006, a seven member team from Tibet (connected to the Shugden Society) attempted to assasinate him during his 30th Kalachacra initiation.
Du känner säkert till Knutby-skandalen. Men det här har inte omnämnts i svensk massmedia.
Våld förekommer bland politiska och religiösa extremister. Den här gruppen har kopplingar till Kina. Shugden aktivisterna är ett verligt hot mot det tibetanska exilsamhället.
Tibet Buddhism cannot be cinsidered Buddhism because it's not true to the teachings of the Buddha but rather the messed up superstitious beliefs of Hinduism. It's just Hinduism masquerading as Buddhism!
@2101silverstein This is completely inaccurate. It is obvious that you have little knowledge about Vajrayana practice. Your statement has no truth, and only reflects negativity and prejudice.
The unmistaken incarnation of TULKU DRAKPA GYELTSEN is back in the world!
They murdered him 350 years ago, and then called him an evil spirit. If he really was a demon, then WHY is his incarnation back in the world and recognised by high lamas?
When the Dalai Lama dies in short while due to old age, Dorje Shugden's practice will grow, grow, grow. So whatever ppl want to say against, it doesn't matter anymore. It is just a matter of time.
It WAS an internal conflict within the Gelug school, but not anymore. The Dalai Lama is fully supported in his view by the monastic communities. The Tibetan people have complete faith in him, with the exception of the Shugden group in Delhi. The Shugden leaders in Delhi have been conspireing with China since -98 or -99. Political traitors and Chinese infiltration. The Shugden groups and China are allies. That´s the political reality, not a fiction novel.
thank you for sharing this information, but it is a very sad day to know that the people who have suffered by the discrimination do not have any support or their voices heard.
It is not about defaming the Dalai Lama. I do not wish for that either. But it is said that the people who have been suffering by the discrimination, ostracised and even attacked, do not have their voices heard.
Dharamshala: In response to the allegations of harassment and maltreatment filed by the Dorjee Shugden Devotees Charitable and Religious Society against the Central Tibetan Administration and His Holiness the Dalai Lama, the High Court of Delhi dismissed their writ petition and application.
In an order dated April 5, 2010, Justice S. Muralidhar dismissed the writ petition and application on the grounds that the allegations of violence and harassment were
were vague averments and that the raised issues do not partake of any public law character and therefore are not justiciable in proceedings under Article 226 of the Constitution.
Citing the absence of any specific instances of any such attacks on Dorjee Shugden practitioners, the Court noted the counter affidavit submitted by the respondents, referring to an understanding reached whereby it was left to the monks to decide whether they would want to be
Part III want to be associated with the practices of Dorjee Shugden.
Closing the doors on the possibility of similar complaints in the future, Justice Muralidhar concluded that the matters of religion and the differences among groups concerning propitiation of religion, cannot be adjudicated upon by a High Court in exercise of its writ jurisdiction.
This is what the demon worshipers do and still call themselves deprived of religious freedom. No religion preach taking life except the demon. We will never accept those demon worshipers into our mainstream society. I would rather die of hunger and thirst if the very two things i can get is from one of those demon worshipers.
I think that Shugden practitioners are not so worried about going to attend the Dalai Lama's teachings as they are just wanting access to basic necessities in the shops, medical help and papers to leave their Tibetan refugee camps. If they are even suspected Shugden practitioners, these are denied to them. Let alone being called names and other psychological abuse, sometimes leading to physical abuse (yes there are photos of their injuries). That is what we call discrimination and apartheid.
Shugden activists in India have been involved in crimes and murder, that makes them impopular. The China-link is obvious.There are photos and mountains of eyewitness reports connecting Shugden leaders with the Peoples Republic of China.
Your "information" is based on statements from the pro-Chinese Delhi group.
I ´ve said it before, and I say it again - the Shugden activists are criminals. Criminals are not accepted in any society. It´s not about their religious beliefs, it´s about their criminal behaviour.
Recently two Shugden monks attacked, nearly killed, a settlement officer and his wife.
@Varavaken could you please send me the link about this incident re the settlement officer? I've not read about it. Please email to me at wisdombeing@gmail. com.
Btw, likewise i said it before and i say it again - not ALL are criminals and not ALL are good people - everywhere. Every section of society there are good people and bad, but just because there are bad people who belong to a certain religion, it doesnt mean that the whole religion is bad.
Dalai Lama's own Gurus practised Dorje Shugden and i don't think that HH Trijang Rinpoche and HH Ling Rinpoche were sectarians...
What control are you talking about anyway? I don't see anyone saying that they want to control anything - Shugden practitioners just want freedom to practice in peace without discrimination. They want access to food and medical help. Normal basic necessities.
You claim that Shugden followers are mistreated but you don´t have a reliable source. Neither "Kundeling" (a political traitor involved in criminal activities) nor WSS are reliable sources. Shugden groups are spreading lies just to undermine the Dalai Lama´s authority. You have no credibility at all.
@Varavaken there are videos all over the interview, here on YouTube detailing the kind of mistreatment that Tibetan people themselves are experiencing within the tibetan communities.
Also, you don't need to be physically beaten up to say you're mistreated. Not being allowed into the dalai lama's teachings just becos of a practice you choose to do, is mistreatment and a violation of basic human rights and freedom of religion.
Shugden practitioners disagree with the Dalai Lama, they did not listen to his advice. So why would they be interested in his speeches? He is not their teacher.
So he has adviced them not to attend. It´s not a muman right violation. They can follow their own teachers, the practice is not prohibited. That is religious freedom.
@wisdombeing i agree that it's so ridiculous that this has become a power struggle and a whole issue about control when DS practitioners never wanted power in the first place. Like you said, they just want the freedom to practice. The ban on this practice has taken away such a large basis of their entire beliefs, which they have adhered to their whole lives.
The discrimination now can be compared to 1950s racism and sexism!
Let's not even say whether Tagpo Rinpoche could see Tsongkhapa directly but the fact was that the 14th Dalai Lama himself wrote a praise to Dorje Shugden called Melody of an Unceasing Vajra (it's beautiful by the way). Surely he wouldn't have done that if he thought Dorje Shugden was a spirit. You can see this prayer on dorjeshugden. com
Non -sectarian Gelugpas don´t practice DS. It´s Pabongkha´s tradition, not Tsongkhapa´s. Shugden has become the banner of the fundamentalists. Pabongkha used DS to promote his own sectarian views. Tsongkhapa was non-sectarian.
Dorje Shugden and Gelugpa are inextricably linked. Dorje Shugden is the protector of Lama Tsongkhapa's lineage and Tagpo Rinpoche received teachings on Dorje Shugden from Tsongkhapa directly.
@wisdombeing It's interesting that you brought this up. Would Tsongkhapa be giving teachings on Dorje Shugden if Dorje Shugden is a spirit? I don't think so.
This video does not justify the ban. Shugden is not bad alone. People who follow Shugden can be good or bad. Every faith has fundamentalism. HHDL is blaming all Shugden for the actions of the few.Buddhism like all faiths is what the practitioner makes of it. We can't ban Jesus or Allah for Bin Laden or Jerry Falwell.
Agreed - there are good and bad practitioners in every religion or tradition or school or lineage. They do not reflect on the religion they happen to practice. There are many who have killed in the name of Christ, but it doesn't mean that Christianity is bad. It's just people have wrong view of their faith.
@wisdombeing i think the best way to reflect our religion well is by our own example. So even if there are bad people in our religion (and there always will be), we don't need to worry about that - we can inspire others by our own individual practice, listening to the advice of our gurus, aspiring to become better people and most of all, to respect and have harmony with others, even if they differ from us.
WE can aspire to be one of the "good" ones in our religion.
@wisdombeing as well as that, I believe its very important to gain knowledge study, read and understand what we are practising. People become bad when they distort information for their own selfish uses, so we must always be sure of what we are doing and WHY. This comes from acquiring knowledge, debating, contemplation and understanding. Then wisdom arises and we gain the ability to act right and well in any situation.
NKT/WSS made a (shabby) cottage industry of "Dissing the Dalai for Dollars."
That's the NKT/WSS's entire persona, worldwide. It's in fact the only thing they're known for to the general public--because that's what they WANTED to be known for (minus of course the Dollars part).
We realize you receive a new directive to suddenly flood the internet with pro-Dalai wrapping, which underneath, still contains the same old hate.
@MrBuddhaBoi good points that there are good and bad people in every single faith and we cannot generalise. I find that people tend to veer very extreme within this issue of DS. one camp says ALL DS practitioners are evil; another camp says ALL Dalai Lama followers are bad. There will be bad and good people everywhere.
We need to have a better understanding of the practices themselves, gain knowledge of the issue. Then come to our own informed conclusions
@MrBuddhaBoi Following this train of thought, I guess this is why its more important than ever that we really focus on what is important which is our Dharma practice and study what our lamas have taught us. Instead of getting trapped in politics. This way, we can gain more knowledge and wisdom to apply what we need to do in difficult situations or when we meet all kinds of people out there.
If really all Dorje Shugden practitioners were being supported by the Chinese Govt I think you would very easily be obvious.
I have not personally know of any monastery being supported by the Chinese govt. If there was I would probably rejoice for they get to collect some merits :) why not - Dharma is for everyone!
Actually all the DS practitioners I know love HHDL even though the ban exists, but even more important not a single one of them protests neither do they accept any money from the Chinese Goverment.
You speak passionately about and associate DS practitioners to the Chinese' government with the motivation to get money and belittling Dalai Lama. I do think there are DS practitioners who are doing this...but NOT ALL. I hope you can consider this point...
On the contrary, to Western audiences the Dalai Lama repeatedly says that he issued this ban In order to save this pure and profound Tibetan Buddhism from degenerating into spirit worship. And This ban is applied in order to promote peace and harmony between the four Tibetan Buddhist traditions.
The justification given to the Tibetan public by DL, which destroyed the entire harmony of the Tibetan community, is: Worshipping this evil deity is a danger for my life and for the freedom of Tibet. If you Tibetans want me to be dammed and dont care at all about the cause of Tibet, then go ahead with the worship of this deity.
zamzam has raised the point. DS issue and freedom of tibet issues are separate, whats the connection at all? DS practitioners are paid by Chinese government? for the past 500 years, and many incarnations of Great Buddhist Masters? I don't think so this is logical. Besides what do DS practitioners gain from keeping Tibet Apart? Come on people wake up, anyone trying to make the connection on youtube is the ones working for the Chinese goverment. Its one big mind game, smell the coffee already.
@wangchub : unfortunately, some quarters are insistent that these issues are political but I see the DS ban as separate from the freedom the people are striving for Tibet. Which is why we keep saying politics and religion do not an dmust not mix. They are entirely 2 different subjects.
Dharma teachings are precious and rare during these degenerate times. Therefore, it is important that we cherish them & receive them with an open mind.
As Dharma becomes rare, distractions amplify in intensity & quantity. This controversy could be a distraction which tests our commitment to pure Dharma practice.Therefore, with focus on developing our spiritual attainments for the benefit of all beings, may we engage in virtuous acts to accumulate the merits & karma to overcome this obstacle.
In 2006 China decided to expand and internationalise the campaign against the Dalai Lama so as to legitimise it´s claim to a leadership role in a Buddhist movement.
The beginning was THE FIRST WORLD BUDDHIST FORUM in 2006. The Chinese nominated Panchen Lama was given international profile.
In -09 there was a second World Buddhist Forum, it was attended by over a thousand religious personages including heads of different Buddhist sects. The Dalai was excluded but SHUGDEN PEOPLE WAS INVITED.
Unfortunately I feel that some quarters have linked the DS issue with the freedom of Tibet. These are 2 entirely difference issues that should not be mixed.
HH Dalai Lama represents kindness and compassion. So does Dorje Shugden. These two are not contradictory therefore it only makes sense that there is a reason why the Dalai Lama is criticising Shugden practice. Shugden and the Lamas who do his practice like HH Trijang Rinpoche ALWAYS says do not criticise the Dalai Lama. To me - that is real Buddhism.
I came across this article of how HH Penor Rinpoche was unbiased and sympathetic towards Dorje Shugden monks due to the ban and he opened up Namdroling for these monks to get supplies.
It really is_ inspiring and uplifting to read this article... bit [.] ly [/] cbARTJ
@Varavaken : what's becoming of this forum? Instead of discussiong issues, you ppl hv gone into bashing each other. Let's leave all this at home. If you want to discuss the Shugden issue, please do so. If you want to spread dharma, please do so. I will be happy to log-in to read your comments but please don't resort to name-calling.
Dharamsala, March 18 - His Holiness the Dalai Lama said compassion, love and kindness are the basis for protection of human rights. The 74-year-old Tibetan leader was speaking yesterday at a lecture on ''Human Rights through Universal responsibly'' organized by the Madhya Pradesh Human Rights Commission at the Vidhan Sabha auditorium in Bhopal.
@zamzam24388 i appreciate & respect Dalai lama's teachings very much as they do promote the Buddhist teaching and lineage to millions.
However, I do understand that it must become very difficult to really take these teachings on compassion from him to heart when we see that so much damage and suffering has been placed on DS practitioners - where is the compassion, love, kindness and human rights in refusing someone the freedom to practise their religion?
@zamzam24388 having said that, I do believe that although we may not agree with what the dalai lama is doing or saying with regards to this ban, we can maintain a mutual respect for him. this is the basis of Dharma after all - to have respect&act kindly.
I think it is important to differentiate btwn what DL is teaching & issue with the ban. Like i said i still respect his teachings.If we focus on his dharma teachings, we can stll benefit from them if we apply & practise, all politics aside.
This is about politics, but you people refuse to admit that.
Allowing Chinese infiltration, is that your idea of compassion? Is conspireing with the Chinese Communist government, to belittle the Dalai Lama in the eyes of international community ,compassion?
If that is compassion, then the self proclaimed Lama, Kundeling, is doing a great job.
@Varavaken Then you should be clear about who you are talking about - if you say Shugden people or Shugden groups - that implies all who propitiate Shugden. I don't agree with extremists from any religion - eg those who tar moderate Muslims and Islamic fundamentalists with the same brush. Ordinary Shugden practitioners just want to clarify misunderstandings about our faith. I do not wish to fight with anyone - just want people to think that there is a different way to look at Shugden.
The majority of the Gelug Lamas want to "cut the bond with Shugden". That´s the way it is, you have to accept it. Shugden practice will continue, but not as a part of the Gelug tradition.
Your pain and anger describe an unhappy state of mind that chooses to put the blame on your misfortunes on others and not take any responsibility for your action. Countries are lost, invaded and conquered, that is the nature of impermanence. it is high time you face reality. Are you even Buddhist?
Hope can Buddhism be mixed into political personal agendas? The sign of a degenerate age as Buddha predicted. Where people are seen practicing but inside empty. It is a pity you cannot find room to heal and forgive yourself. But Buddha Dharma will always be there when you are ready to forgive and let go. I hope you are having a happy day!
Sorry pal... i don't support any Govt. I just support the Dharma. Why is it that we have to get all tangled up with Govt and political issues with you??? For all you know, in your previous life you were a Chinese man or next life you could be reborn in China?
In 1953 all of Chinese Buddhism was organized into the Buddhist Association of China. The purpose of this organization was, and is, to place all Buddhists under the leadership of the Communist Party so that Buddhism will support the party´s agenda.
When China brutally suppressed Tibetan Buddhism in 1959, the B.A.C. fully approved the actions of the government of China.
The China-sanctioned Panchen Lama, a Shugden practitioner, is now one of the 25 vice presidents of B.A.C.
I do not doubt what you say about the CCP and what they are doing with monks and how they control them.
However, anger, hatred and war is not the solution and never has been. Only Dharma can give light to these people and some hope to us all that negative minds will have the opportunity to transform to pure minds. That is what the Buddha told us that there is a Buddha potential in everyone (this includes China Chinese).
Perhaps Dorje Shugden practice will be able to help them transform even faster. And if DS is evil, then they will eventually get their bad karma ripening, if we follow the laws of cause n effect n believe there is a Buddha. Basically what have you got to lose?!? So what the fuss abt DS?
It is amazing that Dorje Shugden is still being practiced and propitiated even though with this silly BAN. Gaden is getting bigger and there is so many Shugden chapels and huge monasteries being built! Rejoice for the time has definitely come for Dorje Shugden to manifest!
Whatever it is, there are many other great masters in the world who practices Dorje Shugden and propagates him. I am sure when time is right. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche would also propagate the Buddhist teachings via Dorje Shugden.
Yes you are absolutely right. Just go on to dorjeshugden (dot) com and check out the section on great masters!!! They give us inspiration to practice Dharma and Guru Devotion and not mixing things up with Politics!!!
DS is completely represented by WSS. No one talked about DS in the west until WSS did.
NKT is WSS, from conception through today.
This new attempt to portray NKT as suddenly Dalai Lama-friendly comes too late, unfortunately.
If NKT has had a change of policy and heart, it will have to spend as many years (or more) counteracting its original propaganda as it did generating it.
In view of the 51st Anniversary of the Tibetan National Uprising Day, HHDL appealed:
"It is important that Tibetans maintain friendly relations not only with people of all nationalities, but also amongst themselves. Tibetans should not engage in petty disputes with each other." So I guess if you really respect HHDL like you said you do and that he is Chenrezig, hence this statement ought to be practiced otherwise why bother following HHDL? Case of a selective mind.
The present Trijang has explained that he has "no intention of becoming a banner or symbol of the pro-Shugden movement", he has "anounced his abandonement of his monastic robes" and left the centre in Switzerland.
@Varavaken Yeah Thanks to the treats he received from TGIE/Pro Dalai Lama supporters. Obviously he had to flee from his own Ladrang. The thing is HHDL did not objetc of him practicing Dorje Shugden. Even if HHDL objected He would have still continued like many other high Lamas who still do till this day silently and patiently while tolerating this illogical ban. Check out all the high Lamas in bio section on dorjeshugden (dot) com and if you still do get it.
@Varavaken Yeah Thanks to the death threats he received from TGIE/Pro Dalai Lama supporters. Obviously he had to flee from his own Ladrang. The thing is HHDL did not objetc of him practicing Dorje Shugden. Even if HHDL objected He would have still continued like many other high Lamas who still do till this day silently and patiently while tolerating this illogical ban. Check out all the high Lamas in bio section on dorjeshugden (dot) com and if you still do get it.
Happy 51st Anniversary of the Tibetan National Uprising Day! Words of HH Dalai Lama:
"It is important that Tibetans maintain friendly relations not only with people of all nationalities, but also amongst themselves. Tibetans should not engage in petty disputes with each other. I earnestly appeal to them instead to resolve any differences with patience and understanding." I hope that message includes to the Shugdenpas. Tashi delek.
@KacheMarp0 Tashi delek to you too!!! I hope so too very much that the one behind this whole "petty dispute" can once and for all put an end to it.
May everyone not just Tibetan have a good day today, do not cause more pain and suffering as the world have seen enough. It does not need to see Tibetans who are supposedly Buddhist be shamelessly disharmonious esp. amongst themselves.
From the midst of black wind enclosed immeasurable celestial mansion, The Great King with a dark red face and two hands, The right hand brandishing a club in the sky, Holding a human heart in the left hand, Wearing a leather hat and the three monks robes. Riding a black horse surrounded by inconceivable emanations.
(this is a praise from the Sakya tradition) extracted from dorje shugden history (dot) org
I find it so sad when I see how this cross-fertilisation of Eastern spiritual knowledge with our Western understanding of material matters, has produced this child of such promise, (the NKT),... only to see that child now grown into adulthood as a slick, slippery-tongued used car sales man whose golden dream is to have a chain of his used car lots in every major city of the world.
Praise to King Dorje Shugden, emanation of Manjushri!
So much accusation has been thrown at him yet, Dorje Shugden has not said a word back or instructed his practitioners to retaliate!
Isn't it obvious what kind of mind Dorje Shugden has? May practitioners of Dorje Shugden stay steadfast, sincere, kind and bring peace and happiness to ALL.
by the way, there is a very good article about why this ban on DS is directly against the vinaya (monastic code) which is followed by all monks in all monastic communities, in all buddhist traditions.
Read the article "Dalai Lama referendum contradicts Vinaya" on the dorjeshuden ( dot) com website
@Varavaken Obvious this VOTE is biased since the consequences of you speaking out that you want to continue practicing Dorje Shugden would simply mean you will be expelled or asked to leave your monastery!
Up till this day there are many suppressed Shugden practitioners in the monastery. In a way what is the difference between your Govt and the CCP??? Both need to be right, cannot be wrong, does not like to be questioned or challenged - familiarities.
"We have to free Buddhism from political pollution" - "what´s wrong with taking money from China?"
And the Panchen-substitute has promised to "uphold the leadership of the Communist Party of China, safeguard national unification, strengthen ethnic unity.." etc.
Posed upon a fearless lion throne, Boundlessly powerful Dorje Shugden Tsel, Wearing the three maroon monks robes, [I] request you to display indefinite manifestations.
@wisdombeing nice praise from Morchen kunga lhundrub. There are also many other very beautiful prayers and praises on the dorjeshugden (dot ) com website, some written by the 14th dalai lama himself.
It's very inspiring to read these praises - all lamas from different traditions praise the ENLIGHTENED qualities of DS, making it very clear that he is a BUDDHA. It cannot be that ALL these high lamas are wrong, when they are always so highly praised for their enlightened writings and practices.
Dorje Shugden was considered enlightened by the Sakya school too. See this thangka at himalayanart. org /image.cfm / 393. (html)
DS is on a lion throne here, showing he is considered enlightened.
DS on a throne is also mentioned by Morchen Dorje Chang, also known as Morchen Kunga Lhundrub was a highly influential master in the Sakya tradition who wrote praises to Shugden. dorjeshugdenhistory. org / among-shugden-texts-1654. (html)
Lmao, look at the change in language style of the Jan 11 Clique; the westerner that was hired to be the "Jan. 11 voice" has been back-burnered, as she's out of her depth now. The wmd have taken over temporarily, due to the upcoming sensitive date.
I think there's more than enough scriptural evidence that DS is a Buddha.
From historical viewpoints, his previous lives were Grand Masters of Buddhism. That makes him a Buddha.
If students of Pabongkhapa believe that DS is a Buddha and derive attainments from his help eg: HH Trijang Rinpoche has attained the state of DORJE CHANG.
Why would be relying on such a protector be harmful and create SECTARIANISM?
I don't think a spirit can be promoted to be a Buddha. A spirit can only go through spiritual progress which takes years to develop like our human minds. One good example is Nechung.
But for Dorje Shugden, I think he's been enlightened for many lives prior to him being a protector.
DS was promoted from Dolgyal, the spirit of Dol - a minor regional guardian- to a fully enlightened protector (Buddha), by the conservative establishment within the Gelugpa tradition of Tibetan Buddhism.
Hence if you have Yamantaka initiation does that mean you are indirectly practicing Dorje Shugden? I mean there must be thousands of ppl around the world with this initiation! Opps!!! How are you going to throw your Yamantaka out and stop ur practice? I mean lets get real folks!
ALSO ever wondered why all the other SCARY protectors - Mahakala, Kalarupa, Namtosey, Palden Lhamo etc etc have no objections on their appearance but with Dorje Shugden..they ask why he looks FIERCE! OMG! Can there be more smart and original questions? How come those protectors are ok - they look pretty SCARY to me too.
Besides, we believe that Dorje Shugden = Manjushri = Yamantake.
You´re lumping all protectors together, you make no distiction between them.
Mahakala is canonical, undisputed (just one example).
Dorje Shugden on the other hand, is very much disputed.
The Shuden´s purpose is well known in both Gelug and non-Gelug schools.
The head of Sakya tradition, HH Sakya Trizin, says that while some in his lineage made offerings to DS, he was always regarded as a MUNDANE PROTECTOR ON THE LOWEST LEVEL OF THE PANTHEON.
You know what is really Funny...the FEAR FACTOR instilled on to so many Tibetans who are supposed to be Buddhist btw...on this "spirit" protector Dorje Shugden. Some are so scared that they won't even dare to spell his name OUT! Can u believe this? All the Tibetan Govt needs to do is to create a old wise grandmother story and the whole community just buys in to it! Excuse me But pls check your HISTORY... the Sakyas are the first to practice Dorje Shugden!
isn't it funny. Trijang rinpoche is a teaching lama, so if he can practise, it means he'll be teaching the DS practices&lineage to his students too, won't he?
He has attendants, students, sponsors... so they will all be somehow connected to DS too. They sponsor his practice, they set up & participate in the pujas with him. So actually, w/ Trijang Rinpoche, many hundreds more will get to practise DS too... and I'm sure Dalai Lama knows that.
There have been rituals and fire pujas invoked to rid Dorje Shugden but none of these were successful. He is still very much alive why can he not be subdued? Because he is a NOT a spirit. And, he means to harm to HHDL nor the practitioners.
We all can speculate and come up with different views regarding the inconsistencies of DL putting a ban but HH Trijang Rinpoche can practice. Sorry to say, but it makes no sense to me.
There must be something bigger at work here which is not about the ban. These two beings are able to incarnate at will shows that they are not normal beings. How can two bodhisattvas have such different opinion about a deity? Impossible.
CONTEMPLATE THISInstead of turning away people who practise Dorje Shugden, we should be kind to them. Invite them, teach them, slowly and give them logic and wisdom without fear, then in time they give up the practice assuming it is wrong. Wouldnt that be a Buddhistic approach to all wrong-doers? Actually Dorje Shugden practitioners are not doing anything wrong.
I love the fact that the most wide-spread Buddhist organisation is NKT and their main Protector is Dorje Shugden. Isn't that wonderful and while the Dalai Lama is banning in the Tibetan community, China is secretly and openly allowing it to flourish in China. What amazing coincidence or well-planned enlightened activity to bring the Dharma to the world. I just read this in dorjeshugden(dot)com
he worship of spirits is therefore not in itself a Buddhist practice, but rather a tool to maintain the spiritual practice. Over the centuries, the practice of worship of spirits, however, has been reinterpreted as a means to fame, fortune and general welfare gain in this life. These are goals that contradict the general Buddhist view of life. "
I think you're confusing the role of a dharma protector, because it's their job to help us maintain our spiritual practice, not spirit worship (which Buddhists shouldn't engage in as they are not enlightened beings). Dharma protectors like DS, Setrap, Palden Lhamo, etc clear obstacles for our spiritual practice and growth.
As beings still in samsara, this can involve giving us 'general welfare gain in this life' so we can focus on our spiritual practice. For example, you never have to worry about money for your bills, so you can't use "oh but I need to work to earn money" as an excuse to avoid attending dharma talks, etc.
It is this point that has been misinterpreted by less-guided practitioners who (mis)use the oracles and protectors as fortune tellers and wealth-giving deities.
Having said that, a dharma protector like DS cannot help if we do not have the karma to be helped. They will also NOT help if the result will take us away from the Dharma.
That's what sets him (and Setrap, Palden Lhamo, etc) apart - unlike spirits who will give you anything to please you so you give them offerings to please them, DS isn't swayed by the amount of offerings you make. The only thing that matters to him is the sincerity with which you make your offerings, and your guru samaya.
Fame and fortune is not such a bad thing if you use it for the right purposes. For example (and I know not everyone will agree with this one!), take Steven Seagal. I know I know, he's not the best actor in the world and he does action movies where he kills people but he is famous (more so than I am anyway), and he always takes the opportunity to talk about Buddhism or incorporate it into his movies. Many other actors shy away from talking about religion.
You may say that as a Westerner, he can't practise an "Eastern" religion, it's a celeb trend thing, etc (illogical since Buddha taught dharma for everyone) but his movies may be watched by violence-prone ppl who may be intrigued to find out why there are monks meditating in a movie. If it leads them to read more into Buddhism, then happily for Mr. Seagal his methods have worked. So fame can be used for good, like HHDL giving so much airtime to the DS ban so more people will hear DS's name.
Worship spirits is a practice that has its origins in pre-Buddhist Tibet. However, when Guru Padmasambhava helped Buddhism in Tibet in the 8th Root century, he took some spirits as Nechung, the State Oracle, in service to protect the Buddhist doctrine. Because of his high spiritual attainments, he was able to subdue such spirits and bind them by vows.
If Nechung is a bound spirit, then why is the Dalai Lama relying on him as a state oracle, and yet putting down Dorje Shugden as a spirit? Why not just bind him? How come HHDL and the nine monasteries cannot suppress someone whom they call a spirit? I doubt it is because they are lacking in 'high spiritual attainments'. I think it has more to do with Shugden's enlightened nature.
In an earlier post you seemed to be drawing a distinction between 'demon' and 'spirit' (I apologise if my interpretation of your words is incorrect). I think that's a bit of a non-point here because HHDL and those nine monasteries are acting upon a view that DS is a spirit, and that is what we are arguing against.
Furthermore DS practice is not spirit worship any more than practising Setrap is spirit worship (read dorjeshugden{DOT}com for more info), which HHDL allows for in Gaden Monastery. Why allow for Setrap's practice to continue, and not DS when both are Dharma protectors??? Because propitiating Setrap is propitiating DS (see the antishugden{dot}com site for more info) - Setrap resides in DS's mandala in the form of Amitabha.
"The main reason for the Tibetans anger at the Shugden practitioners are statements such as Kundeling Lobsang Yeshe´s and the photos and mountains of eye wittness reports connecting Shugden leaders with Peoples Republic of China."
Prayer by the 5th Dalai Lama to Gyelchen Dorje Shugden : Even the composition of this short praise and propitiation brought benefit. Thus, although undisputed great Tantric masters tried to subdue him by burning him in the fire through their rituals, his display of miraculous power only grew greater. (from MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEANS OF PROTECTORS, page 105).
@zamzam24388 absolutely! More recently in 1996, monks from Sera Mey Monastery were ordered to perform a Hayagriva Tamding ritual to exorcise Dorje Shugden (this is the same ritual that Guru Rinpoche used to subdue very terrifying spirits). The very next day DS took trance in an oracle again.
WHY CAN'T HE BE DESTROYED if he is just a spirit? Why can't the lamas control or subdue a mere spirit?!
or is it that he's not a spirit but a Buddha, which CANNOT be destroyed? THINK.
DS activists kill their opponents, it´s not the other way around.
Tibetans fear these people because of their close links to the People´s Republic of China. China is providing political and financial support to DS groups all over the world. New DS centres keep popping up.. I guess the most recent example is North America Gelug Buddhist Association...
Varavaken 9 months ago
A Swiss TV documentary made in 1997 paints an even grimmer picture. The documentary shows evidence of violence and even death threats towards Dorje Shugden practitioners with wanted posters of Dorje Shugden adherents being posted in Dharamsala, encouraging violence towards practitioners
Seidkhonis 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Tsem Tulku Organization runs wwwdorjeshugdencom, they are also the ones dropping DS pamphlets all over Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. People who leave the organization or otherwise find out their secret are subject to abuse and death threats. Kechara House is a dangerous cult that has betrayed His Holiness the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan Community, and most of all, Gaden Shartse Monastery. Please circulate this information far and wide.
ivivism 9 months ago 3
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Varavaken 1 year ago
This is a perfect example of the serious flaw of the guru system. The 'holy' teacher demands absolute trust and obedience from his disciples - some might say slaves -in order to realise transformation of some kind. What is communicated is always less than perfect - sometimes radically so - and the poor disciple whose brain has become a mindless sponge soaks up all the neuroses of the guru. This issue threatens to undo the vast amount of good done by the Dalai Lama.
zthetha 1 year ago 3
Fuck freetibet and all these religious fanatic bitches!
2101silverstein 1 year ago
A seven member team from China´s Tibet attempted to assasinate the Dalai Lama 2006 during his 30th Kalachacra initiation.
Effective steps have been taken to upgrade the security of the Dalai lama.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Six men, with connection to the Shugden Society in Delhi, got away with a triple murder in Dharamsala 1997. They fled to China´s Tibet. In 2007 Interpol issued red notices to China for extraditing the two main suspects.They are accused of the "ritualistic killing" of two monks an one Gelug lama (director of the School of Tibetan Dialectics).
Varavaken 1 year ago
this shows the perfect example of problems with combining religion and politics and people are still cheering for the restoration of dalai lama system in tibet.
eastern2western 1 year ago
@eastern2western
If you sing a freedom song in China´s Tibet, you are imprisoned.
But the triple murderers have Chinese protection.
Don´t start this discussion again. You´re just repeating old comments.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken chinese communist system is the weirdest system in the world (not social or capatalism). in most western countries, church and state are two complete entities which produces a much manageble situation
eastern2western 1 year ago
Ever since the cult controversy there has been an increased threat to the life of the Dalai Lama.
Four years ago, 2006, a seven member team from Tibet (connected to the Shugden Society) attempted to assasinate him during his 30th Kalachacra initiation.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@gamlastanarn
Du känner säkert till Knutby-skandalen. Men det här har inte omnämnts i svensk massmedia.
Våld förekommer bland politiska och religiösa extremister. Den här gruppen har kopplingar till Kina. Shugden aktivisterna är ett verligt hot mot det tibetanska exilsamhället.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@gamlastanarn
Religious extremists got away with murder in Dharamsala 1997.
That´s what this video is about.
Just watch it.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@gamlastanarn
The Tibetan Buddhist tradition is worth preserving. It´s as simple as that.
You don´t believe in spirits but we´re all spirits with physical bodies (whether we´re religious or not).
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
Tibet Buddhism cannot be cinsidered Buddhism because it's not true to the teachings of the Buddha but rather the messed up superstitious beliefs of Hinduism. It's just Hinduism masquerading as Buddhism!
2101silverstein 1 year ago
@2101silverstein
It´s Mahayana Buddhism with influences from the (pre-Buddhist) Bon tradition.
Look up Padmasambhava. Google!
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken
It's Hinduism masquerading as Buddhism...deal with it! Fuck free tibet, no theocracy in the 21st century!
2101silverstein 1 year ago
Comment removed
Varavaken 1 year ago
@2101silverstein This is completely inaccurate. It is obvious that you have little knowledge about Vajrayana practice. Your statement has no truth, and only reflects negativity and prejudice.
standingcorpse 1 year ago
@gamlastanarn
Nihilist.
Varavaken 1 year ago
INCREDIBLE NEWS:
The unmistaken incarnation of TULKU DRAKPA GYELTSEN is back in the world!
They murdered him 350 years ago, and then called him an evil spirit. If he really was a demon, then WHY is his incarnation back in the world and recognised by high lamas?
See the full story on dorjeshugden (d ot) com
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
@TheRedNiece
Since 2005, the Chinese Government has the authority to select "living Buddhas".
Chinese officials intend to control the selection of the next Dalai Lama too.
I´m not surprised. There will be many fake Tibetan lamas in the future, and they will all be loyal to the Chinese Communist Party.
But the Chinese Communist Party will not last forever....
Varavaken 1 year ago
@TheRedNiece
I checked it out. I think it´s a joke.
Varavaken 1 year ago
those who destroy Padmasambhava statues and do not allow His Holy Mantra to be recited, are posessed by high level demons like gyal gon
buddhafollower 1 year ago
Right now the Chinese rulers are using DS as a means to subjucate the Tibetan people.
Varavaken 1 year ago
It is obvious that this practice is harmful, look at the harm it is causing.
hanselos 1 year ago
When the Dalai Lama dies in short while due to old age, Dorje Shugden's practice will grow, grow, grow. So whatever ppl want to say against, it doesn't matter anymore. It is just a matter of time.
iwannaberich2007 1 year ago
pat2698
It WAS an internal conflict within the Gelug school, but not anymore. The Dalai Lama is fully supported in his view by the monastic communities. The Tibetan people have complete faith in him, with the exception of the Shugden group in Delhi. The Shugden leaders in Delhi have been conspireing with China since -98 or -99. Political traitors and Chinese infiltration. The Shugden groups and China are allies. That´s the political reality, not a fiction novel.
It´s about politics now.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Some of the comments read like James Bond novel, Chinese spy! You flatter the Chinese Govt.
This is very much an internal matter within the Gelug school. A diversion of interests and new viewpoints not subscribing to the established hierachy.
Go ask the Dalai Lama why there are two Karmapas!! One MUST be a fake, but they are still both being honored.
This is a minus point for organised religion(s).
pat2698 1 year ago
The young Shugden monks in India are not refugees. China has been sending them to India. They Have CHINESE PASSPORTS.
It´s Chinese infiltration.
Varavaken 1 year ago
thank you for sharing this information, but it is a very sad day to know that the people who have suffered by the discrimination do not have any support or their voices heard.
It is not about defaming the Dalai Lama. I do not wish for that either. But it is said that the people who have been suffering by the discrimination, ostracised and even attacked, do not have their voices heard.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
Delhi High Court:
Part I
Dharamshala: In response to the allegations of harassment and maltreatment filed by the Dorjee Shugden Devotees Charitable and Religious Society against the Central Tibetan Administration and His Holiness the Dalai Lama, the High Court of Delhi dismissed their writ petition and application.
In an order dated April 5, 2010, Justice S. Muralidhar dismissed the writ petition and application on the grounds that the allegations of violence and harassment were
ABCDIR 1 year ago
Delhi High Court:
Part II
were vague averments and that the raised issues do not partake of any public law character and therefore are not justiciable in proceedings under Article 226 of the Constitution.
Citing the absence of any specific instances of any such attacks on Dorjee Shugden practitioners, the Court noted the counter affidavit submitted by the respondents, referring to an understanding reached whereby it was left to the monks to decide whether they would want to be
ABCDIR 1 year ago
Delhi High Court:
Part III want to be associated with the practices of Dorjee Shugden.
Closing the doors on the possibility of similar complaints in the future, Justice Muralidhar concluded that the matters of religion and the differences among groups concerning propitiation of religion, cannot be adjudicated upon by a High Court in exercise of its writ jurisdiction.
ABCDIR 1 year ago
@ABCDIR
Thank you for these comments.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Comment removed
ABCDIR 1 year ago
This is what the demon worshipers do and still call themselves deprived of religious freedom. No religion preach taking life except the demon. We will never accept those demon worshipers into our mainstream society. I would rather die of hunger and thirst if the very two things i can get is from one of those demon worshipers.
namchoela 1 year ago
I think that Shugden practitioners are not so worried about going to attend the Dalai Lama's teachings as they are just wanting access to basic necessities in the shops, medical help and papers to leave their Tibetan refugee camps. If they are even suspected Shugden practitioners, these are denied to them. Let alone being called names and other psychological abuse, sometimes leading to physical abuse (yes there are photos of their injuries). That is what we call discrimination and apartheid.
wisdombeing 1 year ago
@wisdombeing
Shugden activists in India have been involved in crimes and murder, that makes them impopular. The China-link is obvious.There are photos and mountains of eyewitness reports connecting Shugden leaders with the Peoples Republic of China.
Your "information" is based on statements from the pro-Chinese Delhi group.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@wisdombeing
I ´ve said it before, and I say it again - the Shugden activists are criminals. Criminals are not accepted in any society. It´s not about their religious beliefs, it´s about their criminal behaviour.
Recently two Shugden monks attacked, nearly killed, a settlement officer and his wife.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken could you please send me the link about this incident re the settlement officer? I've not read about it. Please email to me at wisdombeing@gmail. com.
Btw, likewise i said it before and i say it again - not ALL are criminals and not ALL are good people - everywhere. Every section of society there are good people and bad, but just because there are bad people who belong to a certain religion, it doesnt mean that the whole religion is bad.
wisdombeing 1 year ago
@wisdombeing
There are criminals among the Shugden activists in Delhi. They have a strong influence on other Shugden groups.
I ´ll try to find the link and send it to you. (I make many notes, sometimes I forget to write down the link.)
Varavaken 1 year ago
@wisdombeing
stop your false propaganda, please, not even the High Court of Delhi found any evidence for such claims.
ABCDIR 1 year ago
Dalai Lama's own Gurus practised Dorje Shugden and i don't think that HH Trijang Rinpoche and HH Ling Rinpoche were sectarians...
What control are you talking about anyway? I don't see anyone saying that they want to control anything - Shugden practitioners just want freedom to practice in peace without discrimination. They want access to food and medical help. Normal basic necessities.
wisdombeing 1 year ago
@wisdombeing
You claim that Shugden followers are mistreated but you don´t have a reliable source. Neither "Kundeling" (a political traitor involved in criminal activities) nor WSS are reliable sources. Shugden groups are spreading lies just to undermine the Dalai Lama´s authority. You have no credibility at all.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken there are videos all over the interview, here on YouTube detailing the kind of mistreatment that Tibetan people themselves are experiencing within the tibetan communities.
Also, you don't need to be physically beaten up to say you're mistreated. Not being allowed into the dalai lama's teachings just becos of a practice you choose to do, is mistreatment and a violation of basic human rights and freedom of religion.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
@TheRedNiece
Shugden practitioners disagree with the Dalai Lama, they did not listen to his advice. So why would they be interested in his speeches? He is not their teacher.
So he has adviced them not to attend. It´s not a muman right violation. They can follow their own teachers, the practice is not prohibited. That is religious freedom.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@wisdombeing i agree that it's so ridiculous that this has become a power struggle and a whole issue about control when DS practitioners never wanted power in the first place. Like you said, they just want the freedom to practice. The ban on this practice has taken away such a large basis of their entire beliefs, which they have adhered to their whole lives.
The discrimination now can be compared to 1950s racism and sexism!
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
Let's not even say whether Tagpo Rinpoche could see Tsongkhapa directly but the fact was that the 14th Dalai Lama himself wrote a praise to Dorje Shugden called Melody of an Unceasing Vajra (it's beautiful by the way). Surely he wouldn't have done that if he thought Dorje Shugden was a spirit. You can see this prayer on dorjeshugden. com
wisdombeing 1 year ago
@wisdombeing
Non -sectarian Gelugpas don´t practice DS. It´s Pabongkha´s tradition, not Tsongkhapa´s. Shugden has become the banner of the fundamentalists. Pabongkha used DS to promote his own sectarian views. Tsongkhapa was non-sectarian.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@wisdombeing
The Dalai Lama is fully supported in his view by the monastic communities. But the Shugden minority wants control.
Only Gelug sectarians worship DS, a minority. It´s not Tsongkhapa´s tradition.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken - good response !
Ganeschar 1 year ago
Dorje Shugden and Gelugpa are inextricably linked. Dorje Shugden is the protector of Lama Tsongkhapa's lineage and Tagpo Rinpoche received teachings on Dorje Shugden from Tsongkhapa directly.
It is a myth that Gelugpas are shunning Shugden.
wisdombeing 1 year ago
@wisdombeing It's interesting that you brought this up. Would Tsongkhapa be giving teachings on Dorje Shugden if Dorje Shugden is a spirit? I don't think so.
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
Strengthened by Chinese money Shugden leaders (Nga Lama, "Kundeling" and his followers) have unleashed a campaign of MURDER and INTIMIDATION.
THIS HAS TO BE STOPPED!
Varavaken 1 year ago
This video does not justify the ban. Shugden is not bad alone. People who follow Shugden can be good or bad. Every faith has fundamentalism. HHDL is blaming all Shugden for the actions of the few.Buddhism like all faiths is what the practitioner makes of it. We can't ban Jesus or Allah for Bin Laden or Jerry Falwell.
MrBuddhaBoi 1 year ago
Agreed - there are good and bad practitioners in every religion or tradition or school or lineage. They do not reflect on the religion they happen to practice. There are many who have killed in the name of Christ, but it doesn't mean that Christianity is bad. It's just people have wrong view of their faith.
wisdombeing 1 year ago
@wisdombeing i think the best way to reflect our religion well is by our own example. So even if there are bad people in our religion (and there always will be), we don't need to worry about that - we can inspire others by our own individual practice, listening to the advice of our gurus, aspiring to become better people and most of all, to respect and have harmony with others, even if they differ from us.
WE can aspire to be one of the "good" ones in our religion.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
@wisdombeing as well as that, I believe its very important to gain knowledge study, read and understand what we are practising. People become bad when they distort information for their own selfish uses, so we must always be sure of what we are doing and WHY. This comes from acquiring knowledge, debating, contemplation and understanding. Then wisdom arises and we gain the ability to act right and well in any situation.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
MrBuddhaPloy,
Don't even try.
NKT/WSS made a (shabby) cottage industry of "Dissing the Dalai for Dollars."
That's the NKT/WSS's entire persona, worldwide. It's in fact the only thing they're known for to the general public--because that's what they WANTED to be known for (minus of course the Dollars part).
We realize you receive a new directive to suddenly flood the internet with pro-Dalai wrapping, which underneath, still contains the same old hate.
Again, don't try. Or try harder.
vinayahoIder 1 year ago
@MrBuddhaBoi good points that there are good and bad people in every single faith and we cannot generalise. I find that people tend to veer very extreme within this issue of DS. one camp says ALL DS practitioners are evil; another camp says ALL Dalai Lama followers are bad. There will be bad and good people everywhere.
We need to have a better understanding of the practices themselves, gain knowledge of the issue. Then come to our own informed conclusions
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
@TheRedNiece
Shugden activists indulge in murder, coercion and intimidation.
Shugden people get away with murder.
The triple murderers have Chinese protection.
Shugden groups have financial support from China.
Stop your propaganda. These people are not victims.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@MrBuddhaBoi Following this train of thought, I guess this is why its more important than ever that we really focus on what is important which is our Dharma practice and study what our lamas have taught us. Instead of getting trapped in politics. This way, we can gain more knowledge and wisdom to apply what we need to do in difficult situations or when we meet all kinds of people out there.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
Shugden leaders are political TRAITORS ON CHINESE PAY-ROLE. The Shugdens are involved with crimes and murder.
You may have financial support from China. But you have nothing to be proud of.
Varavaken 1 year ago 2
@Varavaken
Pay-roll! (Not pay-role)
Varavaken 1 year ago
If really all Dorje Shugden practitioners were being supported by the Chinese Govt I think you would very easily be obvious.
I have not personally know of any monastery being supported by the Chinese govt. If there was I would probably rejoice for they get to collect some merits :) why not - Dharma is for everyone!
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
Actually all the DS practitioners I know love HHDL even though the ban exists, but even more important not a single one of them protests neither do they accept any money from the Chinese Goverment.
Consider that point.... )
wangchub 1 year ago
varavaken
You speak passionately about and associate DS practitioners to the Chinese' government with the motivation to get money and belittling Dalai Lama. I do think there are DS practitioners who are doing this...but NOT ALL. I hope you can consider this point...
peace
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
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TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
On the contrary, to Western audiences the Dalai Lama repeatedly says that he issued this ban In order to save this pure and profound Tibetan Buddhism from degenerating into spirit worship. And This ban is applied in order to promote peace and harmony between the four Tibetan Buddhist traditions.
What is the reality behind these statements?
Find out more at dorjeshugden(dot)com
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The justification given to the Tibetan public by DL, which destroyed the entire harmony of the Tibetan community, is: Worshipping this evil deity is a danger for my life and for the freedom of Tibet. If you Tibetans want me to be dammed and dont care at all about the cause of Tibet, then go ahead with the worship of this deity.
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
zamzam has raised the point. DS issue and freedom of tibet issues are separate, whats the connection at all? DS practitioners are paid by Chinese government? for the past 500 years, and many incarnations of Great Buddhist Masters? I don't think so this is logical. Besides what do DS practitioners gain from keeping Tibet Apart? Come on people wake up, anyone trying to make the connection on youtube is the ones working for the Chinese goverment. Its one big mind game, smell the coffee already.
wangchub 1 year ago
@wangchub : unfortunately, some quarters are insistent that these issues are political but I see the DS ban as separate from the freedom the people are striving for Tibet. Which is why we keep saying politics and religion do not an dmust not mix. They are entirely 2 different subjects.
zamzam24388 1 year ago
Dharma teachings are precious and rare during these degenerate times. Therefore, it is important that we cherish them & receive them with an open mind.
As Dharma becomes rare, distractions amplify in intensity & quantity. This controversy could be a distraction which tests our commitment to pure Dharma practice.Therefore, with focus on developing our spiritual attainments for the benefit of all beings, may we engage in virtuous acts to accumulate the merits & karma to overcome this obstacle.
leedhi 1 year ago
In 2006 China decided to expand and internationalise the campaign against the Dalai Lama so as to legitimise it´s claim to a leadership role in a Buddhist movement.
The beginning was THE FIRST WORLD BUDDHIST FORUM in 2006. The Chinese nominated Panchen Lama was given international profile.
In -09 there was a second World Buddhist Forum, it was attended by over a thousand religious personages including heads of different Buddhist sects. The Dalai was excluded but SHUGDEN PEOPLE WAS INVITED.
Varavaken 1 year ago 2
Unfortunately I feel that some quarters have linked the DS issue with the freedom of Tibet. These are 2 entirely difference issues that should not be mixed.
zamzam24388 1 year ago
P.S, I read somewhere that Samdhong Rinpoche is an emanation of Dorje Shugden!!! that would really take the cake! :)
wisdombeing 1 year ago
HH Dalai Lama represents kindness and compassion. So does Dorje Shugden. These two are not contradictory therefore it only makes sense that there is a reason why the Dalai Lama is criticising Shugden practice. Shugden and the Lamas who do his practice like HH Trijang Rinpoche ALWAYS says do not criticise the Dalai Lama. To me - that is real Buddhism.
wisdombeing 1 year ago
I came across this article of how HH Penor Rinpoche was unbiased and sympathetic towards Dorje Shugden monks due to the ban and he opened up Namdroling for these monks to get supplies.
It really is_ inspiring and uplifting to read this article... bit [.] ly [/] cbARTJ
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
@Varavaken : what's becoming of this forum? Instead of discussiong issues, you ppl hv gone into bashing each other. Let's leave all this at home. If you want to discuss the Shugden issue, please do so. If you want to spread dharma, please do so. I will be happy to log-in to read your comments but please don't resort to name-calling.
zamzam24388 1 year ago
Dharamsala, March 18 - His Holiness the Dalai Lama said compassion, love and kindness are the basis for protection of human rights. The 74-year-old Tibetan leader was speaking yesterday at a lecture on ''Human Rights through Universal responsibly'' organized by the Madhya Pradesh Human Rights Commission at the Vidhan Sabha auditorium in Bhopal.
zamzam24388 1 year ago
@zamzam24388 i appreciate & respect Dalai lama's teachings very much as they do promote the Buddhist teaching and lineage to millions.
However, I do understand that it must become very difficult to really take these teachings on compassion from him to heart when we see that so much damage and suffering has been placed on DS practitioners - where is the compassion, love, kindness and human rights in refusing someone the freedom to practise their religion?
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
@zamzam24388 having said that, I do believe that although we may not agree with what the dalai lama is doing or saying with regards to this ban, we can maintain a mutual respect for him. this is the basis of Dharma after all - to have respect&act kindly.
I think it is important to differentiate btwn what DL is teaching & issue with the ban. Like i said i still respect his teachings.If we focus on his dharma teachings, we can stll benefit from them if we apply & practise, all politics aside.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
zam zam24388
This is about politics, but you people refuse to admit that.
Allowing Chinese infiltration, is that your idea of compassion? Is conspireing with the Chinese Communist government, to belittle the Dalai Lama in the eyes of international community ,compassion?
If that is compassion, then the self proclaimed Lama, Kundeling, is doing a great job.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Varavaken
I hope you will consider that not ALL practitioners have the motivation to get money from the Chinese and to belittle Dalai Lama.
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
TheDharmaKnight
I´m talking about the aggressive activists, not ordinary DS practitioners.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken Then you should be clear about who you are talking about - if you say Shugden people or Shugden groups - that implies all who propitiate Shugden. I don't agree with extremists from any religion - eg those who tar moderate Muslims and Islamic fundamentalists with the same brush. Ordinary Shugden practitioners just want to clarify misunderstandings about our faith. I do not wish to fight with anyone - just want people to think that there is a different way to look at Shugden.
wisdombeing 1 year ago
@wisdombeing
The majority of the Gelug Lamas want to "cut the bond with Shugden". That´s the way it is, you have to accept it. Shugden practice will continue, but not as a part of the Gelug tradition.
Varavaken 1 year ago
dragon
You´re neither a Shugden practitioner nor a Buddhist. You´re just a Dalai Lama-basher, and there are plenty of you.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Please don't confuse the people, Buddhism is not the same as a cult that encourages you to 1) only follow ITS way and 2) DON'T leave.
Those two shining principles of NKT are beacons of truth, focusing the light squarely on a big warning sign:
CULT
XlVDALAILAMA 1 year ago
This
site
is
chock
full
of
50cent
XlVDALAILAMA 1 year ago
Your pain and anger describe an unhappy state of mind that chooses to put the blame on your misfortunes on others and not take any responsibility for your action. Countries are lost, invaded and conquered, that is the nature of impermanence. it is high time you face reality. Are you even Buddhist?
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
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Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken Is that all???
Hope can Buddhism be mixed into political personal agendas? The sign of a degenerate age as Buddha predicted. Where people are seen practicing but inside empty. It is a pity you cannot find room to heal and forgive yourself. But Buddha Dharma will always be there when you are ready to forgive and let go. I hope you are having a happy day!
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
Sorry pal... i don't support any Govt. I just support the Dharma. Why is it that we have to get all tangled up with Govt and political issues with you??? For all you know, in your previous life you were a Chinese man or next life you could be reborn in China?
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
In 1953 all of Chinese Buddhism was organized into the Buddhist Association of China. The purpose of this organization was, and is, to place all Buddhists under the leadership of the Communist Party so that Buddhism will support the party´s agenda.
When China brutally suppressed Tibetan Buddhism in 1959, the B.A.C. fully approved the actions of the government of China.
The China-sanctioned Panchen Lama, a Shugden practitioner, is now one of the 25 vice presidents of B.A.C.
Varavaken 1 year ago
As in China, the monasteries in Tibet are controlled by the government and the monks are in effect government employees...
China seems to favour monasteries that are lucrative tourist attractions...
After may 2008, large number of monks are missing in Lhasa....
Drepung Monastery is now a reeducation camp for monks involved in march 14th uprisinging...
Up to 1000 monks are reported to be locked inside...
Varavaken 1 year ago
I do not doubt what you say about the CCP and what they are doing with monks and how they control them.
However, anger, hatred and war is not the solution and never has been. Only Dharma can give light to these people and some hope to us all that negative minds will have the opportunity to transform to pure minds. That is what the Buddha told us that there is a Buddha potential in everyone (this includes China Chinese).
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
dragonthunder2010
You support that government, whoever you are.
Go to another channel. I recommend hhdiamond. It´s promoting Dorje Chang Buddha III (Wan Ko Yee).
Varavaken 1 year ago
Perhaps Dorje Shugden practice will be able to help them transform even faster. And if DS is evil, then they will eventually get their bad karma ripening, if we follow the laws of cause n effect n believe there is a Buddha. Basically what have you got to lose?!? So what the fuss abt DS?
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
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Varavaken 1 year ago
It is amazing that Dorje Shugden is still being practiced and propitiated even though with this silly BAN. Gaden is getting bigger and there is so many Shugden chapels and huge monasteries being built! Rejoice for the time has definitely come for Dorje Shugden to manifest!
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
Two Shugden monks (Pomra Khargtsen) attacked, nearly killed a settlement officer and his wife...
Varavaken 1 year ago
Whatever it is, there are many other great masters in the world who practices Dorje Shugden and propagates him. I am sure when time is right. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche would also propagate the Buddhist teachings via Dorje Shugden.
closerelative 1 year ago
closerelative
He has no interest in the pro-Shugden group. And he is a lay person now.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Yes you are absolutely right. Just go on to dorjeshugden (dot) com and check out the section on great masters!!! They give us inspiration to practice Dharma and Guru Devotion and not mixing things up with Politics!!!
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
Yes, with money from China DS will thrive...
Here´s a message to CHINA:
STOP SENDING SHUGDEN MONKS TO INDIA. They are not well liked....
Varavaken 1 year ago
Now Now this is rather prejudice and Not very Kind words. Where is the practice of Compassion???
Besides India is not a Tibetan or Non Shugden country. It is a democratic country. Freedom of religion and beliefs.
I guess it is just all about politics in the end. Sad.
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
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DS is completely represented by WSS. No one talked about DS in the west until WSS did.
NKT is WSS, from conception through today.
This new attempt to portray NKT as suddenly Dalai Lama-friendly comes too late, unfortunately.
If NKT has had a change of policy and heart, it will have to spend as many years (or more) counteracting its original propaganda as it did generating it.
vinayahoIder 1 year ago
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In view of the 51st Anniversary of the Tibetan National Uprising Day, HHDL appealed:
"It is important that Tibetans maintain friendly relations not only with people of all nationalities, but also amongst themselves. Tibetans should not engage in petty disputes with each other." So I guess if you really respect HHDL like you said you do and that he is Chenrezig, hence this statement ought to be practiced otherwise why bother following HHDL? Case of a selective mind.
thepurpleaster 1 year ago
The present Trijang has explained that he has "no intention of becoming a banner or symbol of the pro-Shugden movement", he has "anounced his abandonement of his monastic robes" and left the centre in Switzerland.
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken Yeah Thanks to the treats he received from TGIE/Pro Dalai Lama supporters. Obviously he had to flee from his own Ladrang. The thing is HHDL did not objetc of him practicing Dorje Shugden. Even if HHDL objected He would have still continued like many other high Lamas who still do till this day silently and patiently while tolerating this illogical ban. Check out all the high Lamas in bio section on dorjeshugden (dot) com and if you still do get it.
thepurpleaster 1 year ago
@Varavaken Yeah Thanks to the death threats he received from TGIE/Pro Dalai Lama supporters. Obviously he had to flee from his own Ladrang. The thing is HHDL did not objetc of him practicing Dorje Shugden. Even if HHDL objected He would have still continued like many other high Lamas who still do till this day silently and patiently while tolerating this illogical ban. Check out all the high Lamas in bio section on dorjeshugden (dot) com and if you still do get it.
thepurpleaster 1 year ago
thepurpleaster
He left his centre for other reasons.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Happy 51st Anniversary of the Tibetan National Uprising Day! Words of HH Dalai Lama:
"It is important that Tibetans maintain friendly relations not only with people of all nationalities, but also amongst themselves. Tibetans should not engage in petty disputes with each other. I earnestly appeal to them instead to resolve any differences with patience and understanding." I hope that message includes to the Shugdenpas. Tashi delek.
KacheMarp0 1 year ago
@KacheMarp0 Tashi delek to you too!!! I hope so too very much that the one behind this whole "petty dispute" can once and for all put an end to it.
May everyone not just Tibetan have a good day today, do not cause more pain and suffering as the world have seen enough. It does not need to see Tibetans who are supposedly Buddhist be shamelessly disharmonious esp. amongst themselves.
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
From the midst of black wind enclosed immeasurable celestial mansion, The Great King with a dark red face and two hands, The right hand brandishing a club in the sky, Holding a human heart in the left hand, Wearing a leather hat and the three monks robes. Riding a black horse surrounded by inconceivable emanations.
(this is a praise from the Sakya tradition) extracted from dorje shugden history (dot) org
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
I find it so sad when I see how this cross-fertilisation of Eastern spiritual knowledge with our Western understanding of material matters, has produced this child of such promise, (the NKT),... only to see that child now grown into adulthood as a slick, slippery-tongued used car sales man whose golden dream is to have a chain of his used car lots in every major city of the world.
vinayahoIder 1 year ago
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Praise to King Dorje Shugden, emanation of Manjushri!
So much accusation has been thrown at him yet, Dorje Shugden has not said a word back or instructed his practitioners to retaliate!
Isn't it obvious what kind of mind Dorje Shugden has? May practitioners of Dorje Shugden stay steadfast, sincere, kind and bring peace and happiness to ALL.
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
by the way, there is a very good article about why this ban on DS is directly against the vinaya (monastic code) which is followed by all monks in all monastic communities, in all buddhist traditions.
Read the article "Dalai Lama referendum contradicts Vinaya" on the dorjeshuden ( dot) com website
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
TheRedNiece
You are wrong.
It was a unanimous decision.
The Shugden monks - a minority - were breaking the rules.
As promotion of DS continued in 2007, the Dalai Lama recommended the matter to be put to a vote.
In all three Gelug monastic universities,, the DS-opponents won "by a landslide".
This was all done according to Buddhist law.
So one can´t help but wonder, who is behind the promotion of DS? Where did these monks come from?
Varavaken 1 year ago
@Varavaken Obvious this VOTE is biased since the consequences of you speaking out that you want to continue practicing Dorje Shugden would simply mean you will be expelled or asked to leave your monastery!
Up till this day there are many suppressed Shugden practitioners in the monastery. In a way what is the difference between your Govt and the CCP??? Both need to be right, cannot be wrong, does not like to be questioned or challenged - familiarities.
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
dragonthunder2010
The Gelug monks did not want to share their monasteries with the DS practitioners.
98% of the monks were against it. The monasteries decided.
Only a small minority were DS practitioners, and they were troublemakers (to say the least).
The situation in the monasteries was out of control. I´m glad the DS-monks have their own monasteries now.
They will never return.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Gangchen lama says:
"Let´s not antagonize China".
Shugden people say:
"We have to free Buddhism from political pollution" - "what´s wrong with taking money from China?"
And the Panchen-substitute has promised to "uphold the leadership of the Communist Party of China, safeguard national unification, strengthen ethnic unity.." etc.
Nonpolitical?
You are a bunch of hypocrites.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Posed upon a fearless lion throne, Boundlessly powerful Dorje Shugden Tsel, Wearing the three maroon monks robes, [I] request you to display indefinite manifestations.
- Morchen Kunga Lhundrub (1654-1728)
wisdombeing 1 year ago
@wisdombeing nice praise from Morchen kunga lhundrub. There are also many other very beautiful prayers and praises on the dorjeshugden (dot ) com website, some written by the 14th dalai lama himself.
It's very inspiring to read these praises - all lamas from different traditions praise the ENLIGHTENED qualities of DS, making it very clear that he is a BUDDHA. It cannot be that ALL these high lamas are wrong, when they are always so highly praised for their enlightened writings and practices.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
Dorje Shugden was considered enlightened by the Sakya school too. See this thangka at himalayanart. org /image.cfm / 393. (html)
DS is on a lion throne here, showing he is considered enlightened.
DS on a throne is also mentioned by Morchen Dorje Chang, also known as Morchen Kunga Lhundrub was a highly influential master in the Sakya tradition who wrote praises to Shugden. dorjeshugdenhistory. org / among-shugden-texts-1654. (html)
wisdombeing 1 year ago
Lmao, look at the change in language style of the Jan 11 Clique; the westerner that was hired to be the "Jan. 11 voice" has been back-burnered, as she's out of her depth now. The wmd have taken over temporarily, due to the upcoming sensitive date.
vinayahoIder 1 year ago
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Varavaken 1 year ago
Dear Dragonthunder2010,
I think that we have to get over the fear factor already cos it doesn't work for people like Varavaken.
Logic, compassion and great love rules.
So does DS!
jayasina 1 year ago
I think there's more than enough scriptural evidence that DS is a Buddha.
From historical viewpoints, his previous lives were Grand Masters of Buddhism. That makes him a Buddha.
If students of Pabongkhapa believe that DS is a Buddha and derive attainments from his help eg: HH Trijang Rinpoche has attained the state of DORJE CHANG.
Why would be relying on such a protector be harmful and create SECTARIANISM?
p/s: U don't make sense
jayasina 1 year ago
Dear Varavaken,
I don't think a spirit can be promoted to be a Buddha. A spirit can only go through spiritual progress which takes years to develop like our human minds. One good example is Nechung.
But for Dorje Shugden, I think he's been enlightened for many lives prior to him being a protector.
jayasina 1 year ago
DS was promoted from Dolgyal, the spirit of Dol - a minor regional guardian- to a fully enlightened protector (Buddha), by the conservative establishment within the Gelugpa tradition of Tibetan Buddhism.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Without scriptual references or historical precedents, Pabongkha´s students believed DS to be a Buddha, based on their faith in Pabonkha alone....
Varavaken 1 year ago
Hence if you have Yamantaka initiation does that mean you are indirectly practicing Dorje Shugden? I mean there must be thousands of ppl around the world with this initiation! Opps!!! How are you going to throw your Yamantaka out and stop ur practice? I mean lets get real folks!
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
ALSO ever wondered why all the other SCARY protectors - Mahakala, Kalarupa, Namtosey, Palden Lhamo etc etc have no objections on their appearance but with Dorje Shugden..they ask why he looks FIERCE! OMG! Can there be more smart and original questions? How come those protectors are ok - they look pretty SCARY to me too.
Besides, we believe that Dorje Shugden = Manjushri = Yamantake.
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
dragonthunder2010
You´re lumping all protectors together, you make no distiction between them.
Mahakala is canonical, undisputed (just one example).
Dorje Shugden on the other hand, is very much disputed.
The Shuden´s purpose is well known in both Gelug and non-Gelug schools.
The head of Sakya tradition, HH Sakya Trizin, says that while some in his lineage made offerings to DS, he was always regarded as a MUNDANE PROTECTOR ON THE LOWEST LEVEL OF THE PANTHEON.
Varavaken 1 year ago
You know what is really Funny...the FEAR FACTOR instilled on to so many Tibetans who are supposed to be Buddhist btw...on this "spirit" protector Dorje Shugden. Some are so scared that they won't even dare to spell his name OUT! Can u believe this? All the Tibetan Govt needs to do is to create a old wise grandmother story and the whole community just buys in to it! Excuse me But pls check your HISTORY... the Sakyas are the first to practice Dorje Shugden!
dragonthunder2010 1 year ago
lmao
redniece/dharmanightie/relative[yeah it's close alright]/zamscam/smokoliam all pretending to have a conversation with herself.
go CCP
go Team
NKTsurvivors 1 year ago
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The only thing NKT will be remembered for is hating the Dalai Lama.
The only thing I will remember is hating myself.
Beware this cult.
NKTsurvivors 1 year ago
isn't it funny. Trijang rinpoche is a teaching lama, so if he can practise, it means he'll be teaching the DS practices&lineage to his students too, won't he?
He has attendants, students, sponsors... so they will all be somehow connected to DS too. They sponsor his practice, they set up & participate in the pujas with him. So actually, w/ Trijang Rinpoche, many hundreds more will get to practise DS too... and I'm sure Dalai Lama knows that.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago
TheRedNiece
If Trijang is a teacher, who is HIS teacher? Where did Trijang get his education?
Varavaken 1 year ago
Spirit or no spirit, I rather call him a Protector. When one is labeled a Protector, that means he meant no harm, only to Protect. That is his job.
kokoliam59 1 year ago
He used to be the Gelug prtector.
What is he protecting now?
The Chinese Communist Party?
China-dharma
Varavaken 1 year ago
There have been rituals and fire pujas invoked to rid Dorje Shugden but none of these were successful. He is still very much alive why can he not be subdued? Because he is a NOT a spirit. And, he means to harm to HHDL nor the practitioners.
zamzam24388 1 year ago
Shugden people.
The Communist Party of China is your guru.
Guru devotion...
Varavaken 1 year ago
Dorje Shugden isn't just a vengeful spirit but a Protector of Lama Tsongkhapa's teachings which in turn is a synthesis of all of Buddha's teachings.
closerelative 1 year ago
The Dalai Lama doesn´t promote Buddhism.
He just says:
"Look within."
Varavaken 1 year ago
We all can speculate and come up with different views regarding the inconsistencies of DL putting a ban but HH Trijang Rinpoche can practice. Sorry to say, but it makes no sense to me.
There must be something bigger at work here which is not about the ban. These two beings are able to incarnate at will shows that they are not normal beings. How can two bodhisattvas have such different opinion about a deity? Impossible.
TheDharmaKnight 1 year ago
extracted from: dorjeshugden(dot)com
Contemplate This
CONTEMPLATE THISInstead of turning away people who practise Dorje Shugden, we should be kind to them. Invite them, teach them, slowly and give them logic and wisdom without fear, then in time they give up the practice assuming it is wrong. Wouldnt that be a Buddhistic approach to all wrong-doers? Actually Dorje Shugden practitioners are not doing anything wrong.
zamzam24388 1 year ago
I love the fact that the most wide-spread Buddhist organisation is NKT and their main Protector is Dorje Shugden. Isn't that wonderful and while the Dalai Lama is banning in the Tibetan community, China is secretly and openly allowing it to flourish in China. What amazing coincidence or well-planned enlightened activity to bring the Dharma to the world. I just read this in dorjeshugden(dot)com
closerelative 1 year ago
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Great ammunition for everyone who says Dorje Shugden is a demon!! Must Read! tinyurl [.] com [/] y8ar2dg
vinayaholder 1 year ago
he worship of spirits is therefore not in itself a Buddhist practice, but rather a tool to maintain the spiritual practice. Over the centuries, the practice of worship of spirits, however, has been reinterpreted as a means to fame, fortune and general welfare gain in this life. These are goals that contradict the general Buddhist view of life. "
Ganeschar 1 year ago
Good thing then we don't worship spirits :)
I think you're confusing the role of a dharma protector, because it's their job to help us maintain our spiritual practice, not spirit worship (which Buddhists shouldn't engage in as they are not enlightened beings). Dharma protectors like DS, Setrap, Palden Lhamo, etc clear obstacles for our spiritual practice and growth.
DharmaDefender 1 year ago
As beings still in samsara, this can involve giving us 'general welfare gain in this life' so we can focus on our spiritual practice. For example, you never have to worry about money for your bills, so you can't use "oh but I need to work to earn money" as an excuse to avoid attending dharma talks, etc.
It is this point that has been misinterpreted by less-guided practitioners who (mis)use the oracles and protectors as fortune tellers and wealth-giving deities.
DharmaDefender 1 year ago
Having said that, a dharma protector like DS cannot help if we do not have the karma to be helped. They will also NOT help if the result will take us away from the Dharma.
That's what sets him (and Setrap, Palden Lhamo, etc) apart - unlike spirits who will give you anything to please you so you give them offerings to please them, DS isn't swayed by the amount of offerings you make. The only thing that matters to him is the sincerity with which you make your offerings, and your guru samaya.
DharmaDefender 1 year ago
Last point, I promise! :)
Fame and fortune is not such a bad thing if you use it for the right purposes. For example (and I know not everyone will agree with this one!), take Steven Seagal. I know I know, he's not the best actor in the world and he does action movies where he kills people but he is famous (more so than I am anyway), and he always takes the opportunity to talk about Buddhism or incorporate it into his movies. Many other actors shy away from talking about religion.
DharmaDefender 1 year ago
You may say that as a Westerner, he can't practise an "Eastern" religion, it's a celeb trend thing, etc (illogical since Buddha taught dharma for everyone) but his movies may be watched by violence-prone ppl who may be intrigued to find out why there are monks meditating in a movie. If it leads them to read more into Buddhism, then happily for Mr. Seagal his methods have worked. So fame can be used for good, like HHDL giving so much airtime to the DS ban so more people will hear DS's name.
DharmaDefender 1 year ago
Worship spirits is a practice that has its origins in pre-Buddhist Tibet. However, when Guru Padmasambhava helped Buddhism in Tibet in the 8th Root century, he took some spirits as Nechung, the State Oracle, in service to protect the Buddhist doctrine. Because of his high spiritual attainments, he was able to subdue such spirits and bind them by vows.
Ganeschar 1 year ago
If Nechung is a bound spirit, then why is the Dalai Lama relying on him as a state oracle, and yet putting down Dorje Shugden as a spirit? Why not just bind him? How come HHDL and the nine monasteries cannot suppress someone whom they call a spirit? I doubt it is because they are lacking in 'high spiritual attainments'. I think it has more to do with Shugden's enlightened nature.
DharmaDefender 1 year ago
In an earlier post you seemed to be drawing a distinction between 'demon' and 'spirit' (I apologise if my interpretation of your words is incorrect). I think that's a bit of a non-point here because HHDL and those nine monasteries are acting upon a view that DS is a spirit, and that is what we are arguing against.
DharmaDefender 1 year ago
Furthermore DS practice is not spirit worship any more than practising Setrap is spirit worship (read dorjeshugden{DOT}com for more info), which HHDL allows for in Gaden Monastery. Why allow for Setrap's practice to continue, and not DS when both are Dharma protectors??? Because propitiating Setrap is propitiating DS (see the antishugden{dot}com site for more info) - Setrap resides in DS's mandala in the form of Amitabha.
DharmaDefender 1 year ago
I will quote someone here:
"The main reason for the Tibetans anger at the Shugden practitioners are statements such as Kundeling Lobsang Yeshe´s and the photos and mountains of eye wittness reports connecting Shugden leaders with Peoples Republic of China."
Varavaken 1 year ago
Hello?
Another propagandist, imnotafraid23.
STOP YOUR STUPID CHINA-SHUGDEN-PROPAGANDA.
Varavaken 1 year ago
Shugden can never die. He will abide as a Dharma Protector until the 1,000th Buddha appears.
In fact the time has come for Shugden to reign.
He will be the New World Peace Protector.
His practice will spread and grow bigger from this generation forward to the future. No one who is mortal or immortal can stop him.
He is Manjushri!
imnotafraid23 1 year ago
Sure he will never die nor he can reach the Buddhahood as he is a "Demon"
Ganeschar 1 year ago
I think the only demon is the hatred both sides are showing for one another.
DharmaDefender 1 year ago
Prayer by the 5th Dalai Lama to Gyelchen Dorje Shugden : Even the composition of this short praise and propitiation brought benefit. Thus, although undisputed great Tantric masters tried to subdue him by burning him in the fire through their rituals, his display of miraculous power only grew greater. (from MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEANS OF PROTECTORS, page 105).
zamzam24388 1 year ago
@zamzam24388 absolutely! More recently in 1996, monks from Sera Mey Monastery were ordered to perform a Hayagriva Tamding ritual to exorcise Dorje Shugden (this is the same ritual that Guru Rinpoche used to subdue very terrifying spirits). The very next day DS took trance in an oracle again.
WHY CAN'T HE BE DESTROYED if he is just a spirit? Why can't the lamas control or subdue a mere spirit?!
or is it that he's not a spirit but a Buddha, which CANNOT be destroyed? THINK.
TheRedNiece 1 year ago