Problem pri unuji, jeste to sto je vlast crkve ne pripada samo jednom coveku npr predsedniku. Vec velikom broji vladika, i sve vladike treba da se sloze( srpske ruske grcke, gruzijske jermenske, sirijske i ostali...) dok kod vas katolika o svemu odlucuje jedan covek... I sta ako on pogresi u necemu, ili je los covek ( ipak smo mi ljudi zar ne?) pa zeli da uvede nesto sto nije po volji svima... ranije je u pravoslavnoj crkvi svestenicki cin birao narod. Svi teze moci, pa cak i nasa crkva...
@dusanhans istina svi smo ljudi grešni, mnogo poštovani brate, ali u katoličkoj Crkvi nipošto ne odlučuje jedan čovjek( iako je to tako, nažalost , bilo u mnogo puta kroz prošlost). I sam to dugo nisam shvaćao, dok nisam pokušao shvatiti kako na to gledaju katolici...a isto tako jedna od mojih dubokih želja je upoznati pravoslavlje, ali s vidika pravoslavca...hteo bih da mi netko kaže o sebi, ako razumeš što mislim? Gospodi pomiluj brate!
@Slovjan Ko sme da protivureci papi i kakve su posledice ako na pr. papa pogresno sprovodi kanone. Da li neko moze da ga smeni i kako? E kad to budes odgovorio bice ti jasno. Papa nije lider Hriscanstva, cak i ne posti i ne pricescuje se krvlju i telom Hristovim, obitava u laznim tumacenjima i bavi se svetskom politikom. To sa Pravoslavljem nema veze. Citaj kako su Pravoslavne pape zivele sa ostalim Episkopima. Ako te zanima Pravoslavlje idi na svetosavlje org i tamo ces naci sve sto ti treba.
@chaunceybill smedu ljudi da protivureče papi, između ostalih to čini i jedan od papinih bliskih prijatelja teolog Hans Küng, ali je ipak papi blizak prijatelj. I preporučam da se prije osuđivanja sve potanko prouči i sa katoličkog gledišta, ja sam bio jako protiv papinske službe tako dugo dok nisam razumio što je njezina prava uloga... Najlepši pozdrav!
@voanirges i to ako se bavite tom problematikom može se shvatiti. ne kažem da je uredu, ali kažem da se može shvatiti, ako se uzme sve u obzir a ne i iz konteksta...tako bih primjerice mogao reči da pravoslavna Crkva ne valja ništa zato jer je primjerice Vlad Tepeš svetac koji je masovno ubijao, no znam da to nije tako...a mi smo Hrišćani braća svi! Nije nas Gospodin podijelio na ovakve i onakve, to smo smi grešni samu učinili, a On je umro za spas sviju, a ne za spas samo nekih...
@voanirges Da ali ako Ste dobro čitali Dogme Katoličke Crkve tada znate da se papina nepogrešivost odnosi na točno određene stvari...Očito da Papa kaže da je automobil konj to ne bi bilo ne pogrešivo. Ali svaki je čovjek nepogrešiv u izjavi da je recimo cijelina veća od nekod njezinog dijela. Npr. Kriška leba je manja od celog hleba, jeli tako?
I tako se i papina nepogrešivost da razumeti, jer se tiče samo određenih stvari
@voanirges nikada katolički nauk nije učio da može papa nepogrešivošću ukinuti grijeh ili reći da nema grijeha u nama ili da evanđelje nije istinito. To nigdje ne piše niti to pape vjeruju. To da su svi grešili to i katolički nauk prema Svetom Pismu kaže... i sam sam bio nastrojen jako protiv te nepogrešivosti dok nisam znao o čemu se zapravo radi...
@Slovjan S druge strane, nije ni svako ubistvo isto, "Sudite pravedno a ne po spoljasnjosti", raspece Isusovo je ubistvo, i ubistvo Judejskog kneza i Madijamke je ubistvo, ljudskim ocima gledano to je isto, ali u Bozijim nije, nego kaze , "Uzmi i baci tu casnu cijenu kojom su me precijenili sinovi Izrailjevi, i uze i izmjeri mi 30 srebrenika" a S druge strane kaze, "I istade Fines sin E;eazara svestenika i umilostivi i presta pogibao, i ..dajem ti zavjet mira od koljena do koljena...."
@voanirges da ubistva spadaju pod razne kategorije to je jasno. Ali tko sledi Krista taj nikog nemože da ubi jer, ako ljubiš kako ćeš onda ikod da ubiš? ili išta Božje kako će mrziti? Svako će stvorenje ljubiti jer će otvorenim očima vidjeti Slavu Božju koja naprosto izsijava iz svega što je stvoreno od Njega. Jer On je Svet Svet Svet...i On sve vodi...
@voanirges brate u Hristu poštovani, ako imaš volje molim te i ti meni neke stvari pojasni. Naime ima toga u katoličkoj Crkvi sčime se ni ja ne slažem, odnosno što ne shvaćam. A zanima me kako pravoslavci gledaju na to? Što je u pravoslavlju s tzv. čistilištem, purgatorijem? Ja sam u to ne verujem jer ni Sveto Pismo ne govori ništa o kakvom takvom mjestu, a to je bio i kasniji razvoj među irskim sveštenstvom, a ne nešto izvorno, pa bih Te molio da mi to pojasniš iz prsl. vidika...hvala
@Slovjan ja sam na poslu pa malo zabusavam, zato cu ti sada odgovoriti kratko, ali cu ti kad imam vremena napisti poruku, sto se tice Cistilista, ja licno ne verujem u to, za mene postoji samo muciliste, kao kad Isus kaze, "Kad umre ubogi Lazar andjeli ga odnesose u Avraamovo narucje, ..umre i bogatas...",pravoslavlje odbacuje zestoko cistiliste, jer ono smanjuje ozbiljnost u ovom zivotu,i daje neku laznu nadu da iako gresimo,mozemo opet preko cistilista da se ocistimo,
@Slovjan a ustvari, jedino krv Hristova i telo jeste ono sto nas cisti od greha i cini besmrtnima, dakle ako verujes da te neko cistiliste moze ocistiti,umanjujes vrednost Hristovog stradanja,sto se mene tice, Cistiliste je paganska stvar, mnogi Srbi veruju u to iako pravoslavci,to je ostatak od Peruna.Sto se ubistva tice, Isus se sreo sa Ilijom na gori(i Mojsijem) Preobrazenje..a za Iliju pise "I skupi Ilija lazne proroke i pokla ih Ilija ondje na potoku Kisonu.."..dakle nije svako ubistvo isto
@voanirges što se tiče čistilišta, moram da se složim s tobom...ovako, ne želim da te sad zadržavam ili smetam na poslu, možemo kasnije preko osobnih poruka... imam još više pitanja u vezi pravoslavlja....pa se nadam još mnogim dubokim razgovorima kasnije...sretno na poslu! i Hvala još jednom! :)
@MrHRVATIVAN To sto si ti nacionalista za mene znaci da obozavas svoju zemlju a ne da mrzis druge tako da to nista ne znaci sto si napisao "inace sam nacionalista"....pozdrav od srpskog nacionaliste ! :-))
@Loiginer just search for Pavle Aksentijevic and you'll find plenty of these stuff. Welcome to Orthodox Church brother in Christ. You will find salvation here and you will find the real Christ our savior. We are happy to have you!!!
@Slovjan Moze ali jedino da se papa pokaje i vrati u Pravoslavlje i da se odrekne svih jeresi kojih se rimo-katolici drze jos od 1054. godine. Mozemo biti samo jedno u Hristu i samo jedno u njegovoj Crkvi, a to je jedna Sveta Saborna i Apostolska Pravoslavna Crkva.
@chaunceybill neznam o tome gdje papa griješi, vjerujem da je svaki čovjek grešan osim Isusa Hrista Bogočovjeka, i koliko znam pravoslavni carigradski patriarh Atenagoras i katolički papa su 1962-1965. na 2 Vatikanskom kocilu, međusobno isključili odluku o međusobnom isključenju iz 1054. godine. I u nas na Bogoslovnom fakultetu se uvijek s oduševljenjem priča o istočnom obređu i govori o pravoslavnoj braći :)
@Slovjan ne bih da zvucim odbijajuce, ali to sto je Patrijarh Atinagora ucinio se ne odnosi na citavu Pravoslavnu Crkvu, zato sto on jednostavno nije ovlascen da to ucini. Carigradski patrijarh (iako prvi po casti) ne predstavlja samostalno Pravoslavnu Crkvu u celini vec je samo jedan episkopa tako da je on to mogao da potpise samo u svoje ime. Tu je razlika izmedju nas i rimo-katolika. Nasu Crkvu predstavljaju sabor svih episkopa, a vasu predstavlja sam papa u celoj punoci.
@chaunceybill to da papa predstavlja papa Crkvu u punoći nije istina, možda se tako izvana čini, ali tako su i Rimljani rane Kršćane obtuživali npr. za kanibalizam ,jer su "jeli Kristovo tijelo" itd. ali to je bilo samo zato što to nisu poznavali, a Crkva jeste samo jedna, a to je Crkva Kristova, kroz Njega smo mi Jedno i katolici i pravoslavci, neka nema više katolik pravoslavac i protestant, nego samo Hrišćanin. Antiekumenizam nije Božja volja...
@Slovjan ima tu dosta problema prvenstveno teoloske prirode (necu o istorijskim): filioque, indulgencije, cistiliste, bezgresno zacece Presvete Bogorodice, prvenstvo i nepogresivost rimskog pape, pricescivanje bezkvasnim hlebom, kanonizacija, prelest rimokatolickih svetaca itd. i uopste velike razlike duhovnosti izmedju Pravoslavnog istoka i rimo-katolickog zapada. Mi u Pravoslavnoj Crkvi ne mozemo da budemo jedno sa danasnjim rimo-katolicima dokle god se oni ne odreknu ovih ucenja i novotarija.
Interesting is that Roman Catholics use the argument that Peter is the keyguardian :P, but Antioch, an Orthodox Patriarchate was founded by SAINT PETER, directily
Christ is the Head and Lord of Church, not a bishop!
@dis00612 We can only unite in the Orthodox Church as it was before 1054. Roman Catholics must repent and return to the Church they left behind with earthly pride and devastating desire for earthly glory. Roman Catholic church brought us Orthodox Christians many evils, false teachings, wars, massacres, destructions, proselytisms etc. Greetings from a Serbian Orthodox Christian with hope that this will help you get back where you belong.
@chaunceybill The teachings of the catholic church is taught in scripture and by the early church fathers. You cannot blame the church in whole for the sins of individuals. "He who is without sin cast the first stone!"
@dis00612 Roman Catholic church is heretical organization which is outside of Church for almost 1000 years. Please I am praying for you to see that. Why don't you try to find in the Scriptures or in the Fathers teachings where is it said that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son and not only from the Father? Or where is support for the false dogma of "Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God" or purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility etc.
@chaunceybill "The Father is begotten of none, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son." Fulgence of Ruspe (North Africa), The Trinity, 2 (ante A.D. 517).
"[I]n the Holy Spirit, Lord and giver of Life, proceeding from the Father through the Son." Council of Nicea II (A.D. 787).
@dis00612 You see, you are supporting heretical teachings. Holy Scriptures cannot be altered: "Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father" (Jn 15:26). This was inserted to the Symbol of Faith at the 2nd Ecumenical Council (381). After that, this Council, and likewise both the 3rd and 4th Ecumenical Councils, having confirmed the trueness of the Symbol of Faith, forbade any additions to be made to the Symbol (those that you cite here). We cannot unite until you embrace the truth again.
@dis00612 No, "my" Church fathers said that Filioque is a pure heresy and explained everything in the 2nd Ecumenical Council (381) and 3rd and 4th Ecumenical Councils—overall in 7 Ecumenical Councils. You should better read that. End of discussion.
Hey wait, and what about the issues of immaculate conception or purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility etc? Did you forget about that?
@chaunceybill The immaculate conception. "You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others; For there is no blemish in you, nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?" (St. Ephraim, c. 370 A.D.)
@dis00612: NIce verse of St. Ephraim - but where u can see the Dogma of IC? The Theotokos is without stain, with any blame, She is ALLHOLY (PAN HAGIA); Most Blessed, Most Pure, ...
But that is not the teaching of IC
1.) We do not believe in "Merits"
2.) We do not believe in original stain or guilt - so why should we need a dogma to free Her?
3.) To procclaim "marian" dogmas is a very catholic thing - NO FATHER procclaimed any marian dogma!
@dis00612: YOU ARE WRONG - AS I TOLD U (many times now). The "consensus patrum" is the guide to truth. Also the catholic church is based on the "consensus patrum" - it is infallible but not the Pope:
1.) Go and read St. Vincent of Lerin: the Commonitorium
2.) Go and study the documents of the Emumenical Synods: They declare : THIS IS THE FAITH OF THE HOLY FATHERS......or they declared: FOLLOWING THE HOLY FATHERS... and many other such statements
3.) When there was a discussion about a special topic, first it was looked what the Holy Fathers said! Only someone who knows NOTHING ABOUT THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH, can post such rubbish.
4.) Also catholic teaching is based on Tradition and Patristics (even when they do not follow their teaching)
As I told u that Popes had to vow to keep the faith incorrupt, to follow the Holy Fathers and to keep Holy Tradition - if not the Pope would be immediatly deposed.
@dis00612: The Church was built on St. Peters confession (orthodoxy). The correct confession of faith (which means orthodoxy) - on that Rock the church is built. Also many Fathers have said that this Rock is also Christ - Christ is often called Rock in the Scriptures.
@adamantis4657 "He founded a single chair, and He established by His own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was; but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair... If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident.....
1.) We ORTHODOX know the writings of the Holy Fathers!
2.) When u quote such verses please do in context because such verses are fine and true to describe the Patriarch of Rome and His authoritiy in the west
3.) We do not discuss Primacy because we orthodox know that Rome had a kind of Primacy in the early church - but Primacy is not Papism
4.) I could quote hundrets of Fathers who exactly condem Papism - even Popes.
5.) St. Gregory the great Pope of Rome for example
When the Patriarchs of Constantinopel startet do use the title "ECUMENICAL PATRIARCH" - that means "PATRIARCH OF THE WHOLE WORLD" - St. Gregory the great Pope of Rome protested and wrote against such title because as he said: There is NO PATRIARCH, NO BISCHOP above the others, all bishopos are brothers in the Lord. The church is not build on ONE BISHOP....etc...
Do u see how clearly even the Popes were against Papism?
@dis00612: And u also forget that the keys were given to ALL APOSTLES as St. Augstine says (and many Fathers) not only to one!.
Such titles like; Primacy, the first, the head, prince of the church.....should be understood in the context of the early church. No ONE thought of Papism
We also call the Patriarch of Constantinopel: The ecumenical (worldwide), the ARCH_THRONE, the FRIST ..Constantinopel the QUEEN OF CITIES....etc..The Most Holy Patriarch....
@dis00612: You also forget that the Pope of Rome was ONE of the 5 apostolic Thrones! How can be one so arrugant to fight against all His apostolic brothers?
NO PATRIARCH FOLLOWED HIM - do u not wonder? Not Jerusalem the Mother of all churches, not Antiochia, not Alexandria, not Constantinopel.....WHY?
@adamantis4657 "We exhort you in every respect, honorable brother, to heed obediently what has been written by the Most Blessed Pope of the City of Rome; for Blessed Peter, who lives and presides in his own see, provides the truth of the faith to those who seek it. For we, by reason of our pursuit of peace and faith, cannot try cases on the faith without the consent of the bishop of the city of Rome." (St. Peter Chrysologus, Doctor of the Church, c. 449 A.D.)
@dis00612: Have u read my posts? I have told u that those quotes are fine but they have to be understood in the correct context! U are stubborn - like all heretics!
I have told u that u will find such verses also for the other Patriarchs - especially for the Patriarch of Constantinopel but NO ONE thought of him in terms of Papism.
Do u really want a discussion about Papism? I can immediatly post many verses from the Holy Fathers against that heresy!
@dis00612: We clearly see that the Power to remit sins are given to ALL APOSTLES:
We read in St. John, (John 20 : 21, et seq.,) " As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you." After having said these words, he breathed upon them, and said to them, " Receive ye the Holy Ghost; whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained."
@dis00612: Go and study the history of the Apostles and the 1. Synod of Jersusalem:
When the apostles assembled at Jerusalem, Peter spoke in council only as a simple member of the assembly, not even the first, but after many others. He felt himself obliged in presence of the other apostles-some old disciples and some faithful followers-to renounce publicly his opinion upon the necessity of circumcision and other Judaical ceremonies.
James, Bishop of Jerusalem, summed up the discussion, proposed the resolution which was adopted, and acted as the veritable president of the assembly. (Acts 15: 7.)
The apostles then did not consider St. Peter as the foundation-stone of the Church. Consequently the Papal interpretation of the famous text, Tu es Petrus, is as contrary to Holy Scripture as it is to Catholic tradition.
St. Peter is not always named first in the Holy Scriptures; thus St. John names Andrew before him, (1 : 44;) St. Paul names him after James, (Galat. 2 : 9 ;) he even names him after the other apostles and the brethren of the Lord, (1st Corinth. 9 : 5.) "Peter then was only the first among the apostles as Stephen was the first among deacons." These words are St. Augustine's, (Sermon 316.)
15
Origen, (upon St. John,) St. Cyprian (71st letter to Quint.) have the same idea.
St. Matthew relates that Peter having interrogated Jesus Christ upon the prerogatives of the apostles, our Lord answers him, saying: " Verily I say unto you, that ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye shall also sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
If Christ had destined a superior seat to Peter, if he had granted to him a higher position than to the other apostles?
The book of the Acts, and the Epistles contain facts demonstrating that St. Peter did not enjoy any superiority in the apostolic college. In fact, it is said in the Acts, (8 : 14,) "Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John." Peter was subordinate, not only to the apostolic college, of which he was a member, but to a lesser number of apostles in convention at Jerusalem;
At the council of Jerusalem, (Acts 15 : 7,) Peter was not presiding, it was James who gave sentence (19th
verse,) Peter spoke but in his turn as a simple member. Yet the presidency belonged to him by right, if he had been vested with authority and jurisdiction over the whole apostolic body. St. Paul (Epis. Galatians 2 : 7, etc.) refutes the primacy of Peter. He affirms that he is his equal, he relates having reprimanded Peter for "walking not according to the truth of the Gospel."
St. Gregory Nazienzen said of that Church, what St. Irenæus had said of that of Rome, and with still more formal expressions. " This city," said he, " is the eye of the world. The most distant nations press toward her from all parts, and they draw from her as from a spring the principles of the Faith." (Greg. Naz. 42d dis., §10, col..470, Migne's edit.
2. Ecumenical Synod of Constantinopel: " Let the Bishop of Constantinople have the PRIMACY of honour (priores honoris partes) after the Bishop of Rome, because Constantinople is the new Rome."
.....we decree and establish the same thing touching the privileges of the most holy Church of Constantinople, the new Rome. Most justly did the Fathers grant privileges to the see of the ancient Rome, BECAUSE SHE WAS THE REIGNING (capital) CITY. Moved by the same motive, the one hundred and fifty bishops Well beloved of God, grant equal privileges to the most holy see of the new Rome
“Faith is the foundation of the Church, for it was not of the person but of the faith of St. Peter that it was said that the gates of hell should not prevail against it; it is the confession of faith that has vanquished hell."
Most of ALL the Holy FAthers understood the term "ROCK" not to be Peter but his orthodox confession of faith.
St. Gregory the Pope against the title "ecumenical Patriarch":
And yet all are members under one only head. In a word, the saints before the law, the saints under the law, the saints under grace—do they not all constitute the body of the Lord? Are they not members of the Church? Yet is there none among them who desired to be called universal. Let your Holiness consider, therefore, how much you are puffed up when you claim a title that none of them had the presumption to assume. Not even Peter
What then could you answer, beloved brother, in the terrible judgment to come, who desire not only to be called Father, but universal Father of the world? Beware then of evil suggestions; fly from the counsel of offence. 'It is impossible,’ indeed, 'but that offences will come; but,’ for all that, ‘WOE unto him through whom they come!’ In consequence of your wicked and vainglorious title, the Church is divided and the hearts of the brethren are offended.
"As your Holiness, whom I particularly venerate, well knows, this title of universal was offered by the holy Council of Chalcedon to the Bishop of the Apostolic see, which, by God's grace, I serve. But'none of my predecessors would use this impious word, because, in reality, if a Patriarch be called universal, this takes from all the others the title of Patriarch
I say it without the least hesitation, whoever calls himself the universal bishop, or desires this title, is, by his pride, THE PRECURSOR OF ANTICHRIST, because he thus attempts to raise himself above the others. The errour into which he falls springs from pride equal to that of Antichrist; for as that Wicked One wished to be regarded as exalted above other men, like a god, so likewise whoever would be called sole bishop exalteth himself above others."
U see, I have know that u will be stubborn even AFTER U KNOW TRUTH. U do not follow your OWN POPE - St. Gregory the great Pope of Rome.
What will happen to your sould now? Because u know truth and still u are stubborn? U know that u are now a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit? And I hope u know that this sin will not be forgive: no rosary, no novene, no Pope can remit that sin!
@adamantis4657 You interpret pop Gregory's meesage entirely wrong. "Who does not know that the holy Church is founded on the solidity of the Chief Apostle, whose name expressed his firmness, being called Peter from Petra (Rock)?...Though there were many Apostles, only the See of the Prince of the Apostles...received supreme authority in virtue of its very principate." (Letter to the Patriarch Eulogius of Alexandria, Ep. 7) That is from ST.Gregory, is the pope contradicting himself?
@dis00612: No the great Pope is not contradicting himself - it is your interpretation. Because I only mentioned ONE letter of St. Gregory - there are many others.
He was strictly against Papism as u can see from his own words - and so all other fathers too. But there is no problem to say St. Peter was the first, the prince etc.... that was common in the early church as I have shown to u through the words of St. Gregory of Nazianz who said Constantinopel the eye of th world.
@adamantis4657 " Pope rejected the title because he understood it as involving a claim to be the one sole bishop in the Church ("solus conetur appellari episcopos") - thereby un-churching all other bishops including their Primate, the Bishop of Rome! Such a claim was also suspected to represent an assault by the Imperial power on the entire episcopacy as well as on the divine Primacy of the Roman See over all the Patriarchs and Bishops of the Church."
@dis00612: So u see u are negating your own argument!
Stop to read the Holy Fathers from catholic pages - who only pick out verses and use them for their heresies. Take his letters and read them for yourself.
@dis00612: U will also find verses like: Rome is the Mother of all churches, the apostolic throne...etc...
YES - such language was common. But they have to be understood in the right context. Rome is one and only apostolic throne in the west and so it is the Mother of all churches in th west. It is the apostolic throne!
In the East there are 4 apostolic thrones! Rome NEVER denied that there are other apostolic thrones!
@dis00612: I also have told u (because I am honest not like u catholics) - that MOST of the Holy Fathers have interpreted the Rock being CHRIST - or the orthodox CONFESSION of Peter and only A FEW think it direclty was Peter.
Always keep in mind that Peter and Petra - first in masculine and the second is feminine! Is Peter a women?
@dis00612: I also have not denied that Rome had some kind of Primacy - and I have told u that the Primacy of Rome has nothing to do with the later outcome = the Papism.
Papism is an "OVERDOSE" of Primacy!
And I also have told u, that it clearyl can be seen where such Papism leads = to many uncanonical deeds!
@dis00612 The Orthodox church did not 'break away' from the Roman Catholic church. The Roman Catholic church excommunicated the holy Orthodox Church. The Orthodox are right believing, rightly praising, rightly worshipping. Rome should acknowledge the breach caused by their adoption of the doctrines of Filioque, and so called Papal primacy, and renounce them. Then they will be welcomed with so much joy it will rock the world, back to the holy brotherhood of the Orthodox and true church.
@dis00612 say what you want,about our conception of Christianity,but roman catholic church and all of your popes are responsible for death of billion people in history,your crusader campaigns,against muslims and Orthodox Church,and support of Nazis in croatia and germany,and killing of protestants and jews,are the worst crimes in history,and how can you believe organization like that to be good,roman catholic org. is power hungry org. a whore of babylon....
@dis00612 in catholic church words, "he who is not the pope cast the first stone",your "beloved" pope broke that rule,I am not perfect,I am a sinner,but I don't lie people that I am not,and protect child molesters,and in the same time telling 1 billion people that they should repent for their sins,while put my sins under the carpet....
@dis00612 yeah yeah,and your croat catholic brothers respect Miroslav Filipovic,just because his office,but look at wiki what he had done,and your pope Pius XII supported catholic clergy in that crime,like 4-th crusade,your brothers,butchered every man in Constantinople,pope excom. them,then when they gave him the loot from the city,he changed his mind,catholic church has nothing to do with faith in Christ,it is a 1000 year old terrorist org. that frightens people in to belief in Christ...
@dis00612 catholic church had done so much evil on us,that it's idiotic to even think that we will reconcile,that would be like to ask us to agree with the devil,and follow his ways...
1.) The Holy Fathers are the guide to truth - also for catholics!
2.) We are not against the Popes of Rome - because we love, honor and pray to the great Popes of old Rome: St. Sylvester the great Pope of Rome, St. Gregory, St. Leo, St. Liberius, St. Clement etc...
3.) We are against the "catholic-heretic" Popes because they have lost Holy Orthodoxy and have become uncanonical and heretic.
@dis00612 NO tnx my dear friend ! dont get me wrong but if you could see wat Vatican did to us ortodox Serbs you will understand why i say this ! 1000 yrs of killing,forcefull converting and driven away from our own lands...
@SuperRaptor77 It is against the law in the Catholic Church to force anyone to convert ["Can. 748 §2 It is never lawful for anyone to force others to embrace the Catholic faith against their conscience." (1983 Code of Canon Law) One cannot force anyone to believe anything."He who is without sin cast the first stone."
TRULY HE IS RISEN & HE is ALIVE today HE changes peoples lives today. HE changed my life too. ALL ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS CAN EXPERIENCE THE RISEN CHRIST OUR SAVIOR, YES today if you go to HIM with repentance and your whole heart 100%. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29: 13 Tražit ćete me i naći me jer ćete me tražiti svim srcem svojim. и взыщете Меня и найдете, если взыщете Меня всем сердцем вашим.
BEAUTIFULLLLLLVERYYY BEAUTIFULLLL....THANK YOU,THANK YOU SOO MUCH FOR SHARING IT...MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT PROTECT YOU ...I LOVE YOU AS MUCH AS YOU LOVE THE HOLY SPIRIT & JESUS...THANK YOU AGAIN DEAR FRIEND
Boze po miluj nas jer mi smo slabe i samo tvoja liubav i sveta ruka moze da nas vodi
Amin
ako te pita za vodu, dijmu! ako te za moli da jede, dijmu! ako je umoran,dijmu krevet! ako te za moli za drugarstvo, budi! Voli ga kao sebe! Ako te pita za para, priatelju sta ti fali! I ode za slusaj!
Οι Αλβανοι πριν ερθουν στην Ελλαδα ηταν μουσουλμανοι βαρβαροι ....απο την στιγμη που ηρθαν στη Ελλαδα μαθαν τι θα πει πολιτισμος και κοινονια απο εκει και περα μαθαν και την ορθοδοξια, οι αλβανοι σαν λαος ειναι βαρβαρος και μεγαλο ποσοστο ειναι μουσουλμανοι οπως εκεινους που καψαν το κοσοβο και τον ορθοδοξο πολιτισμο
πολυ ωραια φωνη , ο ψαλτης !! its beautiful , his voice !!!
VICTORIANUMBER 2 months ago
Problem pri unuji, jeste to sto je vlast crkve ne pripada samo jednom coveku npr predsedniku. Vec velikom broji vladika, i sve vladike treba da se sloze( srpske ruske grcke, gruzijske jermenske, sirijske i ostali...) dok kod vas katolika o svemu odlucuje jedan covek... I sta ako on pogresi u necemu, ili je los covek ( ipak smo mi ljudi zar ne?) pa zeli da uvede nesto sto nije po volji svima... ranije je u pravoslavnoj crkvi svestenicki cin birao narod. Svi teze moci, pa cak i nasa crkva...
dusanhans 2 months ago
@dusanhans istina svi smo ljudi grešni, mnogo poštovani brate, ali u katoličkoj Crkvi nipošto ne odlučuje jedan čovjek( iako je to tako, nažalost , bilo u mnogo puta kroz prošlost). I sam to dugo nisam shvaćao, dok nisam pokušao shvatiti kako na to gledaju katolici...a isto tako jedna od mojih dubokih želja je upoznati pravoslavlje, ali s vidika pravoslavca...hteo bih da mi netko kaže o sebi, ako razumeš što mislim? Gospodi pomiluj brate!
Slovjan 2 months ago
@Slovjan Ko sme da protivureci papi i kakve su posledice ako na pr. papa pogresno sprovodi kanone. Da li neko moze da ga smeni i kako? E kad to budes odgovorio bice ti jasno. Papa nije lider Hriscanstva, cak i ne posti i ne pricescuje se krvlju i telom Hristovim, obitava u laznim tumacenjima i bavi se svetskom politikom. To sa Pravoslavljem nema veze. Citaj kako su Pravoslavne pape zivele sa ostalim Episkopima. Ako te zanima Pravoslavlje idi na svetosavlje org i tamo ces naci sve sto ti treba.
chaunceybill 1 month ago
@chaunceybill smedu ljudi da protivureče papi, između ostalih to čini i jedan od papinih bliskih prijatelja teolog Hans Küng, ali je ipak papi blizak prijatelj. I preporučam da se prije osuđivanja sve potanko prouči i sa katoličkog gledišta, ja sam bio jako protiv papinske službe tako dugo dok nisam razumio što je njezina prava uloga... Najlepši pozdrav!
Slovjan 3 weeks ago
@Slovjan Klauzula o nepogresivosti Pape, filiokve,ko ubije coveka procita 10 puta Oce nas i oprosteno mu je, indulgencije....
voanirges 1 day ago
@voanirges i to ako se bavite tom problematikom može se shvatiti. ne kažem da je uredu, ali kažem da se može shvatiti, ako se uzme sve u obzir a ne i iz konteksta...tako bih primjerice mogao reči da pravoslavna Crkva ne valja ništa zato jer je primjerice Vlad Tepeš svetac koji je masovno ubijao, no znam da to nije tako...a mi smo Hrišćani braća svi! Nije nas Gospodin podijelio na ovakve i onakve, to smo smi grešni samu učinili, a On je umro za spas sviju, a ne za spas samo nekih...
Slovjan 1 day ago
@Slovjan Za ime Boga miloga, ovo su izvodi iz Dogme Katolicke Crkve, "Papa je nepogresiv" Sveto Pismo pak kaze drugacije “Ako kažemo da nemamo
greha, sami sebe varamo i istine nema u nama… Ako kažemo da nismo zgrešili,
pravimo ga lažom i njegove reči nema u nama.” (I Jovanova 1:8, 10). Stihovi nam
otkrivaju naš problem jasno: “Sav svet (stoji) kriv pred Bogom… Svi su zgrešili i tako
su lišeni slave Božje” (Rimljanima 3:19,23). Vlad Cepes nije niti pop niti vladika,
voanirges 1 day ago
@voanirges Da ali ako Ste dobro čitali Dogme Katoličke Crkve tada znate da se papina nepogrešivost odnosi na točno određene stvari...Očito da Papa kaže da je automobil konj to ne bi bilo ne pogrešivo. Ali svaki je čovjek nepogrešiv u izjavi da je recimo cijelina veća od nekod njezinog dijela. Npr. Kriška leba je manja od celog hleba, jeli tako?
I tako se i papina nepogrešivost da razumeti, jer se tiče samo određenih stvari
Slovjan 9 hours ago
@voanirges nikada katolički nauk nije učio da može papa nepogrešivošću ukinuti grijeh ili reći da nema grijeha u nama ili da evanđelje nije istinito. To nigdje ne piše niti to pape vjeruju. To da su svi grešili to i katolički nauk prema Svetom Pismu kaže... i sam sam bio nastrojen jako protiv te nepogrešivosti dok nisam znao o čemu se zapravo radi...
Slovjan 9 hours ago
@Slovjan S druge strane, nije ni svako ubistvo isto, "Sudite pravedno a ne po spoljasnjosti", raspece Isusovo je ubistvo, i ubistvo Judejskog kneza i Madijamke je ubistvo, ljudskim ocima gledano to je isto, ali u Bozijim nije, nego kaze , "Uzmi i baci tu casnu cijenu kojom su me precijenili sinovi Izrailjevi, i uze i izmjeri mi 30 srebrenika" a S druge strane kaze, "I istade Fines sin E;eazara svestenika i umilostivi i presta pogibao, i ..dajem ti zavjet mira od koljena do koljena...."
voanirges 1 day ago
@voanirges da ubistva spadaju pod razne kategorije to je jasno. Ali tko sledi Krista taj nikog nemože da ubi jer, ako ljubiš kako ćeš onda ikod da ubiš? ili išta Božje kako će mrziti? Svako će stvorenje ljubiti jer će otvorenim očima vidjeti Slavu Božju koja naprosto izsijava iz svega što je stvoreno od Njega. Jer On je Svet Svet Svet...i On sve vodi...
Slovjan 8 hours ago
@voanirges brate u Hristu poštovani, ako imaš volje molim te i ti meni neke stvari pojasni. Naime ima toga u katoličkoj Crkvi sčime se ni ja ne slažem, odnosno što ne shvaćam. A zanima me kako pravoslavci gledaju na to? Što je u pravoslavlju s tzv. čistilištem, purgatorijem? Ja sam u to ne verujem jer ni Sveto Pismo ne govori ništa o kakvom takvom mjestu, a to je bio i kasniji razvoj među irskim sveštenstvom, a ne nešto izvorno, pa bih Te molio da mi to pojasniš iz prsl. vidika...hvala
Slovjan 8 hours ago
@Slovjan ja sam na poslu pa malo zabusavam, zato cu ti sada odgovoriti kratko, ali cu ti kad imam vremena napisti poruku, sto se tice Cistilista, ja licno ne verujem u to, za mene postoji samo muciliste, kao kad Isus kaze, "Kad umre ubogi Lazar andjeli ga odnesose u Avraamovo narucje, ..umre i bogatas...",pravoslavlje odbacuje zestoko cistiliste, jer ono smanjuje ozbiljnost u ovom zivotu,i daje neku laznu nadu da iako gresimo,mozemo opet preko cistilista da se ocistimo,
voanirges 8 hours ago
@Slovjan a ustvari, jedino krv Hristova i telo jeste ono sto nas cisti od greha i cini besmrtnima, dakle ako verujes da te neko cistiliste moze ocistiti,umanjujes vrednost Hristovog stradanja,sto se mene tice, Cistiliste je paganska stvar, mnogi Srbi veruju u to iako pravoslavci,to je ostatak od Peruna.Sto se ubistva tice, Isus se sreo sa Ilijom na gori(i Mojsijem) Preobrazenje..a za Iliju pise "I skupi Ilija lazne proroke i pokla ih Ilija ondje na potoku Kisonu.."..dakle nije svako ubistvo isto
voanirges 8 hours ago
@voanirges što se tiče čistilišta, moram da se složim s tobom...ovako, ne želim da te sad zadržavam ili smetam na poslu, možemo kasnije preko osobnih poruka... imam još više pitanja u vezi pravoslavlja....pa se nadam još mnogim dubokim razgovorima kasnije...sretno na poslu! i Hvala još jednom! :)
Slovjan 8 hours ago
kad ne možeš suze da zadržiš, a nisi ni tužan ni srećan... Mnogo ljudi to počinje da oseća sve više, zbog mnogih stvari. raduje me to :)
blotterman666 3 months ago
inace sam nacionalista veliki i Hrvat ali svetinja je svetinja pa cija god bila! lijep video i pozdrav od Hrvata Katolika
MrHRVATIVAN 4 months ago
@MrHRVATIVAN To sto si ti nacionalista za mene znaci da obozavas svoju zemlju a ne da mrzis druge tako da to nista ne znaci sto si napisao "inace sam nacionalista"....pozdrav od srpskog nacionaliste ! :-))
SuperRaptor77 4 months ago
@SuperRaptor77 ajd negdje se i mi Hrvati i vi Srbi slazemo! :D nedaj na se, nedaj svoje nemoj tude prokleto je!
MrHRVATIVAN 4 months ago
@MrHRVATIVAN Imamo i mi slicnu izreku : Tudje necemo svoje ne damo !!! poz
SuperRaptor77 3 months ago
I will pray for you my friend in Christ Lolginer
eemc2203 4 months ago
One is Holy, One is Lord, Jesus Christ for the glory of God the Father....this voice resonates in the depth of my being.
eemc2203 4 months ago
Someone can pass me more of this kind of music?
I mean, not byzantine, byt this special one!! *---*
I am brazilian, and want convert to Orthodox Christian faith!
Pray for me!
Loiginer 4 months ago 3
@Loiginer Youtube user "Bobbieno10" is uploading this kind of Orthodox chanting on youtube. Welcome to the ancient Faith brother.
3SRBIJACCCC 4 months ago
@Loiginer just search for Pavle Aksentijevic and you'll find plenty of these stuff. Welcome to Orthodox Church brother in Christ. You will find salvation here and you will find the real Christ our savior. We are happy to have you!!!
chaunceybill 4 months ago
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Святий Боже, святий кріпкий, святий безсмертний помилуй нас!
volya6 5 months ago
greetings fron St. George church of Philladelphia Pa
mrsonmychest 6 months ago
My heart is called forth by this chant to the wondrous garden of my Lord God where I am gentled and made whole.
bizintin 6 months ago in playlist Beauty, Profound, Exquisite (continued)
prelijepo!Bog vas blagoslovio!pozdrav od katolika iz hrvatske
lejla2210 8 months ago 17
@lejla2210 hvala, takodje
divermg 7 months ago
@lejla2210 i ja se pridružujem ovom pozdravu. Pozdrav braćo Kršćani :)
"Da bi bili svi jedno u Kristu, kao što su Sin i Otac jedno" Amen
Slovjan 3 months ago
@Slovjan Moze ali jedino da se papa pokaje i vrati u Pravoslavlje i da se odrekne svih jeresi kojih se rimo-katolici drze jos od 1054. godine. Mozemo biti samo jedno u Hristu i samo jedno u njegovoj Crkvi, a to je jedna Sveta Saborna i Apostolska Pravoslavna Crkva.
IC XC + NI KA
chaunceybill 3 months ago
@chaunceybill neznam o tome gdje papa griješi, vjerujem da je svaki čovjek grešan osim Isusa Hrista Bogočovjeka, i koliko znam pravoslavni carigradski patriarh Atenagoras i katolički papa su 1962-1965. na 2 Vatikanskom kocilu, međusobno isključili odluku o međusobnom isključenju iz 1054. godine. I u nas na Bogoslovnom fakultetu se uvijek s oduševljenjem priča o istočnom obređu i govori o pravoslavnoj braći :)
Slovjan 3 months ago
@Slovjan ne bih da zvucim odbijajuce, ali to sto je Patrijarh Atinagora ucinio se ne odnosi na citavu Pravoslavnu Crkvu, zato sto on jednostavno nije ovlascen da to ucini. Carigradski patrijarh (iako prvi po casti) ne predstavlja samostalno Pravoslavnu Crkvu u celini vec je samo jedan episkopa tako da je on to mogao da potpise samo u svoje ime. Tu je razlika izmedju nas i rimo-katolika. Nasu Crkvu predstavljaju sabor svih episkopa, a vasu predstavlja sam papa u celoj punoci.
chaunceybill 3 months ago
@chaunceybill to da papa predstavlja papa Crkvu u punoći nije istina, možda se tako izvana čini, ali tako su i Rimljani rane Kršćane obtuživali npr. za kanibalizam ,jer su "jeli Kristovo tijelo" itd. ali to je bilo samo zato što to nisu poznavali, a Crkva jeste samo jedna, a to je Crkva Kristova, kroz Njega smo mi Jedno i katolici i pravoslavci, neka nema više katolik pravoslavac i protestant, nego samo Hrišćanin. Antiekumenizam nije Božja volja...
Slovjan 3 months ago
@chaunceybill jer ako jeste, zašto bi Krist molio za naše jedinstvo u Blagovjesti po Ivanu poglavlje 17. Velikosveštenička molitva? ili kako misliš?
ovaj ja sam svakako otvoren za razgovore, pa ako želiš možeš mi dublje predstaviti pravoslavlje, da razumijem...
i neznam meni osobno npr. nema ljepših i Hrišćanskih pesama od pravoslavnih...
Slovjan 3 months ago
@chaunceybill ali da svatko tko greši treba da se pokaje. Amin! Hallelujah!
IC XC + NI KA brate :)
Slovjan 3 months ago
@Slovjan ima tu dosta problema prvenstveno teoloske prirode (necu o istorijskim): filioque, indulgencije, cistiliste, bezgresno zacece Presvete Bogorodice, prvenstvo i nepogresivost rimskog pape, pricescivanje bezkvasnim hlebom, kanonizacija, prelest rimokatolickih svetaca itd. i uopste velike razlike duhovnosti izmedju Pravoslavnog istoka i rimo-katolickog zapada. Mi u Pravoslavnoj Crkvi ne mozemo da budemo jedno sa danasnjim rimo-katolicima dokle god se oni ne odreknu ovih ucenja i novotarija.
chaunceybill 3 months ago
@chaunceybill ako želiš i imaš volje možeš mi te stvari dublje objasniti, bilo na skypeu ili preko poruka youtubea...hvala i pozdrav!
Slovjan 3 months ago
Святый Боже, Святый Крепкий, Святый Бессмертный помилуй нас!
Mamont62 8 months ago 5
greetings from Antioch Orthodox Church member in North Carolina, u.s.a.
jleveq 8 months ago 5
Santo Deus, Santo Poderoso, Santo Imortal, tem piedade de nós!
Loiginer 8 months ago 2
Três Vezes Santo
Trisagion (Τρισάγιον)
Agios o Theos, Agios ischyros, Agios athanatos, eleison imas. (Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός, Ἅγιος ἰσχυρός, Ἅγιος ἀθάνατος, ἐλέησον ἡμᾶς.)
Sānctus Deus, Sānctus Fortis, Sānctus Immortālis, miserēre nōbīs.
Santo Deus, Santo Forte, Santo Imortal, tem piedade de nós.
JosephShafan 9 months ago 3
who sings this, please? Where might I find a recording?
Chrisiant 9 months ago 4
@Chrisiant The singer is Pavle Aksentijevic from Serbia
dencic 9 months ago 14
Interesting is that Roman Catholics use the argument that Peter is the keyguardian :P, but Antioch, an Orthodox Patriarchate was founded by SAINT PETER, directily
Christ is the Head and Lord of Church, not a bishop!
HRISTOS ANESTI, from Brazil!
Loiginer 9 months ago
MESA STHN TEXNOLOGIA H EKKLHSIA SAS..
KAI VIDEAKIA STO YOUTUBE KAI TA PANTA OLA!
NA GIRISOUN KAI ENA VIDEO CLIP.
ROBES KITAKSTE SE TI PISTEVETE!
AELNTOU1 9 months ago
I am a Roman Catholic and love the orthodox music. I do also believe that me nust Unite and be one holy catholic ans apostolic church though.
dis00612 10 months ago
@dis00612 We can only unite in the Orthodox Church as it was before 1054. Roman Catholics must repent and return to the Church they left behind with earthly pride and devastating desire for earthly glory. Roman Catholic church brought us Orthodox Christians many evils, false teachings, wars, massacres, destructions, proselytisms etc. Greetings from a Serbian Orthodox Christian with hope that this will help you get back where you belong.
chaunceybill 10 months ago
@chaunceybill The teachings of the catholic church is taught in scripture and by the early church fathers. You cannot blame the church in whole for the sins of individuals. "He who is without sin cast the first stone!"
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612 Roman Catholic church is heretical organization which is outside of Church for almost 1000 years. Please I am praying for you to see that. Why don't you try to find in the Scriptures or in the Fathers teachings where is it said that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son and not only from the Father? Or where is support for the false dogma of "Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God" or purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility etc.
chaunceybill 9 months ago
@chaunceybill "The Father is begotten of none, the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son." Fulgence of Ruspe (North Africa), The Trinity, 2 (ante A.D. 517).
"[I]n the Holy Spirit, Lord and giver of Life, proceeding from the Father through the Son." Council of Nicea II (A.D. 787).
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612 You see, you are supporting heretical teachings. Holy Scriptures cannot be altered: "Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father" (Jn 15:26). This was inserted to the Symbol of Faith at the 2nd Ecumenical Council (381). After that, this Council, and likewise both the 3rd and 4th Ecumenical Councils, having confirmed the trueness of the Symbol of Faith, forbade any additions to be made to the Symbol (those that you cite here). We cannot unite until you embrace the truth again.
chaunceybill 9 months ago
@chaunceybill But did your early church fathers NOT say the above quotes?
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612 No, "my" Church fathers said that Filioque is a pure heresy and explained everything in the 2nd Ecumenical Council (381) and 3rd and 4th Ecumenical Councils—overall in 7 Ecumenical Councils. You should better read that. End of discussion.
Hey wait, and what about the issues of immaculate conception or purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility etc? Did you forget about that?
chaunceybill 9 months ago
@chaunceybill The immaculate conception. "You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others; For there is no blemish in you, nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?" (St. Ephraim, c. 370 A.D.)
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612: NIce verse of St. Ephraim - but where u can see the Dogma of IC? The Theotokos is without stain, with any blame, She is ALLHOLY (PAN HAGIA); Most Blessed, Most Pure, ...
But that is not the teaching of IC
1.) We do not believe in "Merits"
2.) We do not believe in original stain or guilt - so why should we need a dogma to free Her?
3.) To procclaim "marian" dogmas is a very catholic thing - NO FATHER procclaimed any marian dogma!
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@adamantis4657 You have to remember though that the church fathers are NOT INFALLIBLE!!!!! Also, the church was built on ST.Peter the Rock.
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612: YOU ARE WRONG - AS I TOLD U (many times now). The "consensus patrum" is the guide to truth. Also the catholic church is based on the "consensus patrum" - it is infallible but not the Pope:
1.) Go and read St. Vincent of Lerin: the Commonitorium
2.) Go and study the documents of the Emumenical Synods: They declare : THIS IS THE FAITH OF THE HOLY FATHERS......or they declared: FOLLOWING THE HOLY FATHERS... and many other such statements
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612:
3.) When there was a discussion about a special topic, first it was looked what the Holy Fathers said! Only someone who knows NOTHING ABOUT THE DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH, can post such rubbish.
4.) Also catholic teaching is based on Tradition and Patristics (even when they do not follow their teaching)
As I told u that Popes had to vow to keep the faith incorrupt, to follow the Holy Fathers and to keep Holy Tradition - if not the Pope would be immediatly deposed.
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: The Church was built on St. Peters confession (orthodoxy). The correct confession of faith (which means orthodoxy) - on that Rock the church is built. Also many Fathers have said that this Rock is also Christ - Christ is often called Rock in the Scriptures.
The Holy Fathers never thought of Papism!
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@adamantis4657 "He founded a single chair, and He established by His own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was; but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair... If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident.....
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612: Papism:
1.) We ORTHODOX know the writings of the Holy Fathers!
2.) When u quote such verses please do in context because such verses are fine and true to describe the Patriarch of Rome and His authoritiy in the west
3.) We do not discuss Primacy because we orthodox know that Rome had a kind of Primacy in the early church - but Primacy is not Papism
4.) I could quote hundrets of Fathers who exactly condem Papism - even Popes.
5.) St. Gregory the great Pope of Rome for example
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612:
When the Patriarchs of Constantinopel startet do use the title "ECUMENICAL PATRIARCH" - that means "PATRIARCH OF THE WHOLE WORLD" - St. Gregory the great Pope of Rome protested and wrote against such title because as he said: There is NO PATRIARCH, NO BISCHOP above the others, all bishopos are brothers in the Lord. The church is not build on ONE BISHOP....etc...
Do u see how clearly even the Popes were against Papism?
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: And u also forget that the keys were given to ALL APOSTLES as St. Augstine says (and many Fathers) not only to one!.
Such titles like; Primacy, the first, the head, prince of the church.....should be understood in the context of the early church. No ONE thought of Papism
We also call the Patriarch of Constantinopel: The ecumenical (worldwide), the ARCH_THRONE, the FRIST ..Constantinopel the QUEEN OF CITIES....etc..The Most Holy Patriarch....
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@adamantis4657 "...that he is in the Church?" (St. Cyprian of Carthage, c. 251 A.D.)
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612: You also forget that the Pope of Rome was ONE of the 5 apostolic Thrones! How can be one so arrugant to fight against all His apostolic brothers?
NO PATRIARCH FOLLOWED HIM - do u not wonder? Not Jerusalem the Mother of all churches, not Antiochia, not Alexandria, not Constantinopel.....WHY?
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@adamantis4657 "We exhort you in every respect, honorable brother, to heed obediently what has been written by the Most Blessed Pope of the City of Rome; for Blessed Peter, who lives and presides in his own see, provides the truth of the faith to those who seek it. For we, by reason of our pursuit of peace and faith, cannot try cases on the faith without the consent of the bishop of the city of Rome." (St. Peter Chrysologus, Doctor of the Church, c. 449 A.D.)
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612: Have u read my posts? I have told u that those quotes are fine but they have to be understood in the correct context! U are stubborn - like all heretics!
I have told u that u will find such verses also for the other Patriarchs - especially for the Patriarch of Constantinopel but NO ONE thought of him in terms of Papism.
Do u really want a discussion about Papism? I can immediatly post many verses from the Holy Fathers against that heresy!
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@adamantis4657 go ahead
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612: OK - I am curious if u will repent after such a discussion!
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: We clearly see that the Power to remit sins are given to ALL APOSTLES:
We read in St. John, (John 20 : 21, et seq.,) " As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you." After having said these words, he breathed upon them, and said to them, " Receive ye the Holy Ghost; whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained."
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: Go and study the history of the Apostles and the 1. Synod of Jersusalem:
When the apostles assembled at Jerusalem, Peter spoke in council only as a simple member of the assembly, not even the first, but after many others. He felt himself obliged in presence of the other apostles-some old disciples and some faithful followers-to renounce publicly his opinion upon the necessity of circumcision and other Judaical ceremonies.
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612:
James, Bishop of Jerusalem, summed up the discussion, proposed the resolution which was adopted, and acted as the veritable president of the assembly. (Acts 15: 7.)
The apostles then did not consider St. Peter as the foundation-stone of the Church. Consequently the Papal interpretation of the famous text, Tu es Petrus, is as contrary to Holy Scripture as it is to Catholic tradition.
Where u can find Papism there?
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612:
St. Peter is not always named first in the Holy Scriptures; thus St. John names Andrew before him, (1 : 44;) St. Paul names him after James, (Galat. 2 : 9 ;) he even names him after the other apostles and the brethren of the Lord, (1st Corinth. 9 : 5.) "Peter then was only the first among the apostles as Stephen was the first among deacons." These words are St. Augustine's, (Sermon 316.)
15
Origen, (upon St. John,) St. Cyprian (71st letter to Quint.) have the same idea.
adamantis4657 9 months ago
St. Matthew relates that Peter having interrogated Jesus Christ upon the prerogatives of the apostles, our Lord answers him, saying: " Verily I say unto you, that ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of Man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye shall also sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
If Christ had destined a superior seat to Peter, if he had granted to him a higher position than to the other apostles?
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612:
The book of the Acts, and the Epistles contain facts demonstrating that St. Peter did not enjoy any superiority in the apostolic college. In fact, it is said in the Acts, (8 : 14,) "Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John." Peter was subordinate, not only to the apostolic college, of which he was a member, but to a lesser number of apostles in convention at Jerusalem;
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612:
At the council of Jerusalem, (Acts 15 : 7,) Peter was not presiding, it was James who gave sentence (19th
verse,) Peter spoke but in his turn as a simple member. Yet the presidency belonged to him by right, if he had been vested with authority and jurisdiction over the whole apostolic body. St. Paul (Epis. Galatians 2 : 7, etc.) refutes the primacy of Peter. He affirms that he is his equal, he relates having reprimanded Peter for "walking not according to the truth of the Gospel."
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: Constantinopel:
St. Gregory Nazienzen said of that Church, what St. Irenæus had said of that of Rome, and with still more formal expressions. " This city," said he, " is the eye of the world. The most distant nations press toward her from all parts, and they draw from her as from a spring the principles of the Faith." (Greg. Naz. 42d dis., §10, col..470, Migne's edit.
Constantinopel the EYE OF THE WORLD!
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612:
2. Ecumenical Synod of Constantinopel: " Let the Bishop of Constantinople have the PRIMACY of honour (priores honoris partes) after the Bishop of Rome, because Constantinople is the new Rome."
PRIMACY IN HONOR!
adamantis4657 9 months ago
Council of Chalcedon 28th canon:
.....we decree and establish the same thing touching the privileges of the most holy Church of Constantinople, the new Rome. Most justly did the Fathers grant privileges to the see of the ancient Rome, BECAUSE SHE WAS THE REIGNING (capital) CITY. Moved by the same motive, the one hundred and fifty bishops Well beloved of God, grant equal privileges to the most holy see of the new Rome
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: St. Ambrose:
“Faith is the foundation of the Church, for it was not of the person but of the faith of St. Peter that it was said that the gates of hell should not prevail against it; it is the confession of faith that has vanquished hell."
Most of ALL the Holy FAthers understood the term "ROCK" not to be Peter but his orthodox confession of faith.
adamantis4657 9 months ago
St. Gregory the Pope against the title "ecumenical Patriarch":
And yet all are members under one only head. In a word, the saints before the law, the saints under the law, the saints under grace—do they not all constitute the body of the Lord? Are they not members of the Church? Yet is there none among them who desired to be called universal. Let your Holiness consider, therefore, how much you are puffed up when you claim a title that none of them had the presumption to assume. Not even Peter
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: The same:
What then could you answer, beloved brother, in the terrible judgment to come, who desire not only to be called Father, but universal Father of the world? Beware then of evil suggestions; fly from the counsel of offence. 'It is impossible,’ indeed, 'but that offences will come; but,’ for all that, ‘WOE unto him through whom they come!’ In consequence of your wicked and vainglorious title, the Church is divided and the hearts of the brethren are offended.
adamantis4657 9 months ago
"As your Holiness, whom I particularly venerate, well knows, this title of universal was offered by the holy Council of Chalcedon to the Bishop of the Apostolic see, which, by God's grace, I serve. But'none of my predecessors would use this impious word, because, in reality, if a Patriarch be called universal, this takes from all the others the title of Patriarch
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612:
I say it without the least hesitation, whoever calls himself the universal bishop, or desires this title, is, by his pride, THE PRECURSOR OF ANTICHRIST, because he thus attempts to raise himself above the others. The errour into which he falls springs from pride equal to that of Antichrist; for as that Wicked One wished to be regarded as exalted above other men, like a god, so likewise whoever would be called sole bishop exalteth himself above others."
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: Isn't it funny that a great Pope of Rome used such words against Papism? Let's make a conclusion:
1.) Yes - there was some kind of primacy of Rome (was we also can see from the Canons)
2.) That primacy was not a "universal power over all jurisdictions" it was a primacy of honor
3.) Most of the Holy Fathers interpretet the term "rock" as the confession of Peter and not Peter himself
4.) U see NO BISHOP is above the others - all are brothers in Christ the head of the Church
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612:
5.) Even the early Popes (as we can see from St. Gregory) were against Papism
6.) We also should not forget the heretic Popes: Honorius, Virgilius, Formosius, etc....
7.) And NOW? Will u repent and return to the apostolic faith or will u be stubborn?
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@adamantis4657 The orthdox church BROKE away from the Roman Catholic Church! Wh join a schismatic church?
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612:
U see, I have know that u will be stubborn even AFTER U KNOW TRUTH. U do not follow your OWN POPE - St. Gregory the great Pope of Rome.
What will happen to your sould now? Because u know truth and still u are stubborn? U know that u are now a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit? And I hope u know that this sin will not be forgive: no rosary, no novene, no Pope can remit that sin!
U are fighting against your own "ROOT"!
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@adamantis4657 You interpret pop Gregory's meesage entirely wrong. "Who does not know that the holy Church is founded on the solidity of the Chief Apostle, whose name expressed his firmness, being called Peter from Petra (Rock)?...Though there were many Apostles, only the See of the Prince of the Apostles...received supreme authority in virtue of its very principate." (Letter to the Patriarch Eulogius of Alexandria, Ep. 7) That is from ST.Gregory, is the pope contradicting himself?
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612: No the great Pope is not contradicting himself - it is your interpretation. Because I only mentioned ONE letter of St. Gregory - there are many others.
He was strictly against Papism as u can see from his own words - and so all other fathers too. But there is no problem to say St. Peter was the first, the prince etc.... that was common in the early church as I have shown to u through the words of St. Gregory of Nazianz who said Constantinopel the eye of th world.
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@adamantis4657 " Pope rejected the title because he understood it as involving a claim to be the one sole bishop in the Church ("solus conetur appellari episcopos") - thereby un-churching all other bishops including their Primate, the Bishop of Rome! Such a claim was also suspected to represent an assault by the Imperial power on the entire episcopacy as well as on the divine Primacy of the Roman See over all the Patriarchs and Bishops of the Church."
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612: No - u have to read his letters really and not going to some catholic pages with much delusion.
St. Gregory denied the title for Himself as Pope of Rome! The Patriarch of Constantinopel still uses that title.
In your post are many errors:
1.) St. Gregory exactly explains why he refuse that title
2.) St. Gregory refuse this title even for himself as Pope of Rome
3.) When it would be an assult on the entire episcopacy - the roman titles are much more assulting -
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: So u see u are negating your own argument!
Stop to read the Holy Fathers from catholic pages - who only pick out verses and use them for their heresies. Take his letters and read them for yourself.
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: U will also find verses like: Rome is the Mother of all churches, the apostolic throne...etc...
YES - such language was common. But they have to be understood in the right context. Rome is one and only apostolic throne in the west and so it is the Mother of all churches in th west. It is the apostolic throne!
In the East there are 4 apostolic thrones! Rome NEVER denied that there are other apostolic thrones!
U see CONTEXT is needed
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: I also have told u (because I am honest not like u catholics) - that MOST of the Holy Fathers have interpreted the Rock being CHRIST - or the orthodox CONFESSION of Peter and only A FEW think it direclty was Peter.
Always keep in mind that Peter and Petra - first in masculine and the second is feminine! Is Peter a women?
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612: I also have not denied that Rome had some kind of Primacy - and I have told u that the Primacy of Rome has nothing to do with the later outcome = the Papism.
Papism is an "OVERDOSE" of Primacy!
And I also have told u, that it clearyl can be seen where such Papism leads = to many uncanonical deeds!
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612 The Orthodox church did not 'break away' from the Roman Catholic church. The Roman Catholic church excommunicated the holy Orthodox Church. The Orthodox are right believing, rightly praising, rightly worshipping. Rome should acknowledge the breach caused by their adoption of the doctrines of Filioque, and so called Papal primacy, and renounce them. Then they will be welcomed with so much joy it will rock the world, back to the holy brotherhood of the Orthodox and true church.
Chrisiant 9 months ago 5
@dis00612 say what you want,about our conception of Christianity,but roman catholic church and all of your popes are responsible for death of billion people in history,your crusader campaigns,against muslims and Orthodox Church,and support of Nazis in croatia and germany,and killing of protestants and jews,are the worst crimes in history,and how can you believe organization like that to be good,roman catholic org. is power hungry org. a whore of babylon....
Cartmanvb 9 months ago
@Cartmanvb "He who is without sin cast the first stone."
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612 in catholic church words, "he who is not the pope cast the first stone",your "beloved" pope broke that rule,I am not perfect,I am a sinner,but I don't lie people that I am not,and protect child molesters,and in the same time telling 1 billion people that they should repent for their sins,while put my sins under the carpet....
Cartmanvb 9 months ago
@dis00612 you know,what what are you actually doing on this video clip?? you should be serving the pope,leave us Christians to serve God....
Cartmanvb 9 months ago
@Cartmanvb We respect the pope because of his office and we respect him just as much as you respect the early church fathers.
dis00612 9 months ago
@dis00612 yeah yeah,and your croat catholic brothers respect Miroslav Filipovic,just because his office,but look at wiki what he had done,and your pope Pius XII supported catholic clergy in that crime,like 4-th crusade,your brothers,butchered every man in Constantinople,pope excom. them,then when they gave him the loot from the city,he changed his mind,catholic church has nothing to do with faith in Christ,it is a 1000 year old terrorist org. that frightens people in to belief in Christ...
Cartmanvb 9 months ago
@dis00612 catholic church had done so much evil on us,that it's idiotic to even think that we will reconcile,that would be like to ask us to agree with the devil,and follow his ways...
Cartmanvb 9 months ago
@dis00612: My friend - u catholics know nothing!
1.) The Holy Fathers are the guide to truth - also for catholics!
2.) We are not against the Popes of Rome - because we love, honor and pray to the great Popes of old Rome: St. Sylvester the great Pope of Rome, St. Gregory, St. Leo, St. Liberius, St. Clement etc...
3.) We are against the "catholic-heretic" Popes because they have lost Holy Orthodoxy and have become uncanonical and heretic.
adamantis4657 9 months ago
@dis00612 NO tnx my dear friend ! dont get me wrong but if you could see wat Vatican did to us ortodox Serbs you will understand why i say this ! 1000 yrs of killing,forcefull converting and driven away from our own lands...
nothing personal....
SuperRaptor77 4 months ago
@SuperRaptor77 It is against the law in the Catholic Church to force anyone to convert ["Can. 748 §2 It is never lawful for anyone to force others to embrace the Catholic faith against their conscience." (1983 Code of Canon Law) One cannot force anyone to believe anything."He who is without sin cast the first stone."
dis00612 4 months ago
This music is true sacred music...i am rome-catholic, but this is beatiful, i got no words, only tears...
Jesuit888 10 months ago
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BEAUTIFUL .+. XRISTOS ANESTI .+. INDEED
TRULY HE IS RISEN & HE is ALIVE today HE changes peoples lives today. HE changed my life too. ALL ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS CAN EXPERIENCE THE RISEN CHRIST OUR SAVIOR, YES today if you go to HIM with repentance and your whole heart 100%. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29: 13 Tražit ćete me i naći me jer ćete me tražiti svim srcem svojim. и взыщете Меня и найдете, если взыщете Меня всем сердцем вашим.
Α.+.Ω
Soteris1 10 months ago
BEAUTIFULLLLLLVERYYY BEAUTIFULLLL....THANK YOU,THANK YOU SOO MUCH FOR SHARING IT...MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT PROTECT YOU ...I LOVE YOU AS MUCH AS YOU LOVE THE HOLY SPIRIT & JESUS...THANK YOU AGAIN DEAR FRIEND
1gebrael 10 months ago
sta kaze pre "agios athanatos"? zvuci kao "neo", ali nema u tekstu...
panbora 10 months ago
My Orthodox brothers from all arround the world,WE MUST ALLWAYS BE A PART,A FAMILLY. God bless us all. greetings from Serbia to all of you! :)
an0Rex 10 months ago 2
Greetings From your Orthodox brothers in the east, India!!
02kazak 11 months ago 4
Serbs beloved Brothers. May God unite us under Byzantium again. :-(
kyoshiina 11 months ago 6
greetings from Egyptian Orthodox
fetallica1 1 year ago 37
@fetallica1 Coptic Orthodox*
StudMuffinJohnny 11 months ago
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@StudMuffinJohnny
right Coptic Orthodox :)
fetallica1 11 months ago
SERBS AND GREEKS!!!!!!!!ARE BROTHERS!!!!!!!!
ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΚΑΙ ΣΕΡΒΟΙ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΑΔΕΡΦΙΑ!!!!
ΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΜΑΖΙ ΣΑΣ!!!!
LsNikos 1 year ago 8
@LsNikos DO NOT FORGET ROMANIANS !!!
draconessoimaru 1 year ago 8
@draconessoimaru Great Russia,Romania,Serbia and Greece are the core of orthodoxy,and brothers forever !
neon187211 1 year ago 28
@neon187211 indeed it is, brothers)!!!
tvorchi 5 months ago
@neon187211 Don't forget the others Orthodox countries, or are we less important ??????
dare84dare 4 months ago
Proud to be Orthodox!
IC XC + NI KA!
ortodoxiabrasil 1 year ago 11
Boze po miluj nas jer mi smo slabe i samo tvoja liubav i sveta ruka moze da nas vodi
Amin
ako te pita za vodu, dijmu! ako te za moli da jede, dijmu! ako je umoran,dijmu krevet! ako te za moli za drugarstvo, budi! Voli ga kao sebe! Ako te pita za para, priatelju sta ti fali! I ode za slusaj!
a1a227 1 year ago 2
Sfinte Dumnezeule,Sfinte tare,Sfinte fara de moarte,Miluieste-ne pe noi !
ORTODOXIE sau Moarte !
delart2001 1 year ago 3
the coptic orthadox also sing this
pauliscoptic 1 year ago
Какое пение! мороз по коже идет! спасибо спасибо! Боже помилуй нас!
Refidim2 1 year ago 2
WHEREVER IN THIS WORLD I FIND ORTHODOXY I FIND MYSELF HOME !
Megatheron 1 year ago 7
Islam esti ho nosos twn athrwpwn, leipei meta auton ouden alla kakon...
alexgrinkov 1 year ago
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Mortal
Have Mercy On Us
May you have a happy new year my fellow Greeks.
trombsauce 1 year ago
Immortal*
trombsauce 1 year ago
I'm very proud to be orthodox christian!
IbrownrussianbearI 1 year ago
Orthodox Church is the house of saint spirit! Greetings from Russia!
IbrownrussianbearI 1 year ago
Agios o Theos, Agios Ischyros, Agios Athanatos, Eleison imas!
Santo Deus, Santo Poderoso, Santo Imortal, tem piedade de nós!
Christ is Risen, from Brazil!!!
Loiginer 1 year ago
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Orthodox Power I m Turk and Christian and PROUD
Fuck muslims and terrorist
Turkey wack up yu are Christian land ( St .Paulus born in Turkey
Many old churches is in Turkey ,Mother Mary Church is in Turkey.St .Nicolas born in Demre Turkeyx you are CHRISTIAN no muslim
HristiyanTURK1 1 year ago
Οι Αλβανοι πριν ερθουν στην Ελλαδα ηταν μουσουλμανοι βαρβαροι ....απο την στιγμη που ηρθαν στη Ελλαδα μαθαν τι θα πει πολιτισμος και κοινονια απο εκει και περα μαθαν και την ορθοδοξια, οι αλβανοι σαν λαος ειναι βαρβαρος και μεγαλο ποσοστο ειναι μουσουλμανοι οπως εκεινους που καψαν το κοσοβο και τον ορθοδοξο πολιτισμο
MrGXsquad 1 year ago
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MrGXsquad 1 year ago
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MrGXsquad 1 year ago
GREAT voice!!! This is for the words.
Entiremind 1 year ago
του κόλου τα εννιάμερα
Gamotheos 1 year ago
Ευλογίες πάνω σας από την ελληνική και αμερικανική
maximunoutlaw32 1 year ago 3
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Hellenes(Greeks):Saint is the Lord, Powerfull is the Lord, Immortal is the Lord! Lord Mercify us!
Pegasusdigital 1 year ago
Saint is the Lord, Powerfull is the Lord, Immortal is the Lord! Lord Mercify us!
Pegasusdigital 1 year ago
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who is this and how can i get this on my i-tunes?
this is the music of heaven
zamaroX 1 year ago
who is this and how can i get this on my i-tunes?
this is the music of heaven <3
zamaroX 1 year ago
@zamaroX you probably cant get this on ur i-tunes. this is if i aint mistaken Pavle aksentijevic (pritty sure i aint mistaken)
vukasinthevule 1 year ago
bravo serbs, we greeks are proud of you,and we will stick together till death.
MTLSPARTAN 1 year ago 79
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@MTLSPARTAN We are BROTHERS !
Bokicazver 1 year ago
@MTLSPARTAN Happy New Year to you and Greeks...
magellan1962 1 year ago
@magellan1962 thank u my brother happy new year to u 2 and all the best .
MTLSPARTAN 1 year ago
Kakvo strahopostovanje ova pesma uliva.... pravoslavlje je najdivnija religija na svetu
vukasinthevule 1 year ago 4
Eastern Orthodoxy should be held in the Highest .. beautiful .. thank you ..
thecyprianone 1 year ago 2
So beautiful..!!! thank you for sharing..!!!
artitasos55 1 year ago
Where can I find this album? I'm a Protestant who adores the Orthodox church! I want this song!
OneHolyTrinity 1 year ago
@OneHolyTrinity HIs full name is Dragan Pavle Aksentijevic. I ordered it from overseas several years ago from overseas as he lives in Belgrad, Serbia.
The (1987)cd title is Music of Old Serbia, and this is track 9. The cd is liturgical music from the 14th-18th century.
570ant 1 year ago
@570ant THANK YOU!!!!!!!@!
zamaroX 1 year ago
@570ant Thank you!
OneHolyTrinity 7 months ago
@OneHolyTrinity Just google Pavle Aksentijevic and u will have no problem to find
morlaknin 1 year ago
Greetings from Romania! May the God be with you!
Soulfrostable 1 year ago 9
@Soulfrostable thx bro
BassicStorm 1 year ago