Tribes: Ascend Beta - Mortar Needs More Loving

[AndyMcNabStab]

you miss almost all of your shots. mortars should not be able to kill lights as a matter of fact, it is only logical to have damage degrade as you get the the extremes of the aoe. otherwise 1 shot will kill someone, and another, just 1 mm further away will do no damage. thats ridiculous. maybe the range or the projectile speed could be increased, but not more damage.

besides, inside, the mortar blast radius basically covers any tunnel leading to a generator, for op defense.

[hylandpad]

I could deal with mortar being beefed up in range and damage. The only issue would be solving how to deal with it in Close Quarters. I feel like it shouldnt detonate if it hits the ground too soon, or at least let it flop around a bit. Mortars are siege weapons and long range capper killers. They are almost too well suited for tunnels to use them any other way.

[tHEpinkGH0ST]

have you noticed any in or decrese in the mortar AOE in the new pach? I heard it had gotten bigger, but last I played juggy was when ranger was hit scan.

[MoDedSecond]

To be honest I just got pissed off watching the video. Because, I know how you feel... Even if I don't play Jug, that reload after weapon switch hurts on all classes. I play Soldier primary, and every time I switch to my eagle and back to my spinfuser, only to reload instead of getting that shot... I die a little inside.

[RawrRobbie]

I always feel really weak as a Jug dueling any other class, i hit two or 3 discs on a light or medium, they live with a sliver of health, and because their energy recovers so fast, theyre always in their air, or ill practically direct hit a light and theyll live with 1% hp and ski away with our flag. I'm not saying I'm good, I'm just saying I feel like Jug should be more of a threat in a 1v1, even outside.

[Eddy929292]

since the creation of this video, patches have been released which increased the splash damage of all projectile weapons. Ive tried using the mortar since then and Im definately getting a lot more kills. The mortar is now viable once again in mid range combat, whereas before it was practically useless and could only be used as artillery.

[lacudafrost]

Are you saying a light armor who has upgraded their HP should still not be able to survive?

Also, sure the mortar has gotten "weaker" but looking at how it was in previous Tribes titles I can say it was too strong in those games.

I don't consider it as ineffective as you point out, I play this class TONS, and I never have difficulty making strategic combative use of the mortar. Especially since it is designed to be used in conjunction with the special spinfusor, which has increased damage.

[stockjonebills]

The mortar in TA is more like a big grenade launcher than an actual Tribes mortar, This is not the big green Tribes boomie.

[darkbarrage99]

I know a simple way to change this and make it like the older tribes games...

...force reload on single shot weapons before switching. hirez seems to be quite backwards on making this like cod

[8soundwave8]

The spinfusor has almost no Area of Effect damage like T1 and T2 but instead you have to damn near get a direct hit. The turrets or useless. All it takes is like 5 spinfusor rounds and they're gone. The shrike sucks b/c there's no maneuverability. The knife is useless. They put a bunch of machine guns because they want stupid little kids that play CoD to play this game. Which is ok, if they werent hit-scan and actually required skill. Generators are a joke.

[LightLeo111]

@8soundwave8 only mortars should be able to effectively take them out. Next should be a med armor plasma gun or something like it. Spinfuser should not even be able to take out its shields. As of right now I see no point in the heavy armor class.

[8soundwave8]

@LightLeo111 Yeahp. Or a coordinated spinfusor attack. Not just one person. The mortars have a really small AoE range. Turrets and Generators don't even have shields LOL.

[BioTox2021]

I think this gun is doing fine. I played it about 4 hours last night and I was doing great with it. A bit more power could be alright at the center of the blast but I've had no problems countering the mediums with the current mortar. I'll have to get some video tonight.

[HawaiiTalks]

@BioTox2021 I invite you to peruse the thread in the summary. I think you'll find there are many supporting opinions from those of us who play it on a regular and dedicated basis.

What's your previous Tribes experience out of curiosity regarding HoF?

[BioTox2021]

@HawaiiTalks I played T1/T2 - I played a lot of HoF and HO. It is my class of preference, actually.

[HawaiiTalks]

@BioTox2021 Good to hear then...hopefully you don't get tac/disconade/shrike/hitscanne­d to death. Not everyone has caught on yet, but HoF is pretty difficult with some of the current Tribes vets I've been playing with. Suckers know how to tear stuff up that the noobs don't even have a clue about.

[FurryCrew]

@HawaiiTalks The other thing to think about is that in the current beta I would say 80% of the people are in Medium armor which means they take damage a little better specially when it's not a direct, on your feet, mortar hit. Light armour used to die from the mere sigh of a mortar AE...it still probably does today.

[HawaiiTalks]

@FurryCrew This is true...I do have non-regs alot though. Everytime I record with FRAPS I get them. I need to do another Mortar Fail video with some better shots. The mortar needs some severe tweaking...they even reduced the inheritance to 0% now. I run into my own mortars quite often now. :(

[NWNisFUN]

wow, I played tribes back in the day and I really can't believe what i'm seeing here. You definately move fast for a heavy though but when I wanted to defend the generator because I was sick of crappy random team mates and base rape. I picked the heavy and just by myself I made a huge difference. That indoor footage of the mortar was pathetic. You had some great shots. Nice video, I am missing out .

[xXGraedonXx]

I think this is focusing on you wanting it to be what it's not, Tribes. In older tribes you had larger areas, more stuff to use and worry about where being able to reload one weapon while holding another makes sense.

But in the smaller maps of TA with 2 identical bases and set weapons(which only really includes guns, nades, and a few offhand things) you're asking to be overpowered. If you were able to reload without having the weapon on, what's stopping anyone from just hardcore spamming ?

[HawaiiTalks]

@xXGraedonXx I just prefer the old way of not having the weapon switch until it's done reloading. In fact, it would be better and more along your thinking. It wouldn't be any faster, but it also wouldn't be giving you the idea that you've got a round ready when you don't. It's a highly annoying mechanic...espescially when you take into consideration that many times the round is shown going into the barrel, switching back, and you have to restart the entire reload process again. Urgh!

[xXGraedonXx]

@HawaiiTalks The way you've reworded it makes much more sense and i agree with it :D

[lightdud]

I agree 150% with all of this.

[admiralthrawndude]

does this game have offhand grenade throw? and melee? as in hitting with the butt of your weapon

[HawaiiTalks]

@admiralthrawndude It has grenade throw, melee is either claw or sword swipe. The nades can't be cooked, can't control throw length, and it puts your main weapon away which requires having to reset every time. They kinda suck.

[admiralthrawndude]

@HawaiiTalks that sucks. i love shooters with good melee and grenade mechanics. however it seems too big and fast paced for grenades to have ever been an effective strategy.

[Tigerhawk71]

Yeah, the mortar needs some love. Don't care much what the haters say. It barely does more damage than a hand grenade (mortar is 1200 at ground zero, nades are 900-1100).

[HawaiiTalks]

@DryDox Oh...you mean like this?

/watch?v=rgygL93dtio

/watch?v=51G-Q62JR8Y

/watch?v=gBxhv2_e3H8

Not to sound egotistical, but I do have "better" aim, and it's exactly why I know what I'm talking about. I'm speaking from years of T1/T2/T:V experience. The mortar has problems that need to be tweaked. I'm also not the only Juggy that agrees with this position.

[Freekillvenomviper]

The motor doesn't seem as scary as it looks anymore, and doesn't look like it has a huge blast radius as it used to.

[organizedatheism]

THANKS FOR NOT ADDING ANY MUSIC, WHICH MAKES ALL TRIBES VIDEOS TOTALLY SUCK.

[Rarwiorrrx3]

are you complaining you cant 1 shot people as a tank?.... grow up bro.

[HawaiiTalks]

@Rarwiorrrx3 LOL...Keep it civil, mang.

[Demo1233]

Damn, after seeing that makes me feel dissapointed,like, reload after switch?

Isn't enough having the slow reload animation? Yep, the mortar takes a LONG time to arm and explode,that's a little lame.

[Croner2323]

It seems to me like your accuracy is off on most of these shots. It might look like a direct hit from far away but if you look at the ground where it actually detonated, it's rarely if ever in a proximity where I think it should have been a kill.

It sounds like you just want an overpowered weapon to give you an unfair advantage. Ascend's mortar reminds me ALOT of Halo:Reach's Grenade launcher. It could be the most devastating weapon in the game, but ONLY if you had VERY precise aim.

[HawaiiTalks]

@Croner2323 Watch these other videos by yours truly and come back with that same opinion: /watch?v=BFgeH48LTQg

/watch?v=gBxhv2_e3H8

/watch?v=W9uk_IKgMYQ

I know what the hell I'm doing. I've been playing heavy since 1998 in the original T1. I wouldn't be making these videos unless I did. There are abvious problems, and HiRez has already admitted to needing to take a look at the mortar, so unless you've got some other POV, I'd say you're wrong with me just "wanting an overpowered weapon".

[Croner2323]

@HawaiiTalks Sorry, ya you are probably right that it needs to be tweaked a bit. But that's what the beta is for. I just got the feeling that you were asking for too much. You kept saying that the mortar should be feared and that its supposed to be a devastating weapon. This is true in a sense, but theres a fine line between that and over-powered. I think they will address these issues before retail launches and its looking like it will be a very fair and balanced game.

[zalzankavol2]

I t just takes getting used to..requires a bit more precision. I am normally getting well over 10k credits easy in a game as a Jugg. The range is not far, but I can live with that.

[HawaiiTalks]

@zalzankavol2 It does at the moment, but there are serious FAIL moments where hits do not register. Surprised you haven't noticed that:

watch?v=BFgeH48LTQg

It has issues that need to be fixed.

[Bukakkii]

I agree with everything in this video Except for the reloading issue. I think you need to go through the reloading animation to prevent the abuse of quickly switching weapons to quickly reload what should be a slow rate of fire weapon

[HawaiiTalks]

@Bukakkii I understand your point, but one of our perks is the weapon switching perk. It's pretty much useless due to the reloading issue. What's the point of being able to switch fast if you have to reload before every shot? Second, the reload happens even if you've already got a round in the chamber as evidenced..it's starts back from the beginning. That's not cool.

[eualadindeal]

one of these beast inside a base and is enough to hate it for the rest of your life.

It has enough damage and range. Don't think that an insta-kill weapon will do justice to ALL OTHER CLASSES!

[BipolarStoner420]

the mortar looks harder to aim than all the rest of the guns so it should be more awesome than this. If you want to see something funny, type tribes sentinel and check out the video from Niichts..

[whyfacetw]

incredibly painful/frustrating class to try and play currently, for sure. especially compared to default hitscan ranger class...

[TikiShootah]

how the hell did you get 15k tokens that fast to unlock the other classes...

[Shawaeon]

@TikiShootah He either has the press version which has everything unlocked or he bought the pre-order which comes with 3000 gold and few other bonuses.

[Westy553]

I've got to agree. there's a number of changes I'd love to see here, but I'll stick to the mortar for this rant :D

Firstly can I just say, loved the mortar in T1/T2. I know it's often used as a noobtube but when handled properly can be a devastating but skillful weapon.

The mortar is by definition a weapon to be feared. It should devastate the area it impacts. I agree that it should have a shorter fuse time, not removed altogether. Say about 1 second from launch, then it will explode on impact.

[HawaiiTalks]

@Westy553 Firmly agree, there, Westy.

[HawaiiTalks]

@Westy553 Agreed, great post.

[abeeftec]

@zotde75 I think one shot heavy Mortars need to be in the game, Unlike the one shot it takes to kill a Jumper! Also I think every class should have a Spin fusor and you should be able to shoot your secondary weapon while your Spin fusor is reloading. Ascend has great potential to bring all Tribes gamers together finally. But it does appear to have some issues that must be sorted out. I think they will get it by release.at least I hope so! And they cant make everyone happy in everything.

[abeeftec]

IS there a NDA with Ascend in Closed Beta? Not trying to be a jerk, I just dont want to see you get into any issues since they want it closed. I mean it may as well be opened since all servers seem to be full all the time!

I see many issues with the game as well but I am hoping like hell it is because we are at the start of the beta. Seems people keep saying there is a cap on speed but really it appears it takes XP to get fast. EVERYONE is fast in a few days! Good vid though

[brainwhatwasher]

@abeeftec the NDA finished with the release of the Closed Beta.

[Minastir1]

more damage = agree, more radius with maybe tweaked damage distribution = agree, projectiles inhereting more velocity = will be fixed in next patch, removing reloading on weapon switch = disagree, powerful weapons should be clunky to use.

[Rooster128]

I always thought the mortar was overpowered in other Tribes games, with the death and damage radius being so high. To me, skill versus damage done should be a proportionate ratio across all weapons, and mortar never fit into that ratio. That being said, I think the T:V mortar was the best across all the games in fitting into that ratio, and this T:A mortar looks very underpowered right now. Hopefully they do something for the beta. But the mortar should not be the noob tube it was in T1/T2

[zotde75]

All I'm hearing is wahhh I should be able to spam this and one shot everything I come across

[HawaiiTalks]

@zotde75 Then you're listening with a closed mind...stop being so immature and look at what we're trying to say. One-shot mortars have always been a part of Tribes anyways, so your argument is invalid. 

[zotde75]

@HawaiiTalks

So it should be included because...it's always been that way. That sounds like a more close-minded argument than anything I said. And anyway, that thing oneshots me when I play light classes alllll the time. The heavy classes are already easy enough, no game needs more spammable weapons. I mean look at you, in most of these clips you're just standing still hoping to nuke someone coming in for the flag. You're also missing a hell of a lot.

[HawaiiTalks]

@zotde75 First off, all of these shots ARE misses. That's the point. Jeez. This isn't a "best of" highlight reel where I show how awesome I am. These are the shots that exemplify the fact that mortar has issues. If you want me to slap a "win" video I can...look me up in game, and I'll show you exactly what I can do to you with a mortar and a disc and my fat ass. Second, I'm standing still because it's called HoF. Its sounds to me as if you've never played Tribes and haven't a clue.

[zotde75]

@zotde75

And in the clip you showed after the 'maybe this will convince you', that was a medium class. I really think you just want to oneshot everything in this game and be unstoppable.

[HawaiiTalks]

@zotde75 You're seriously not worth discussing this with...maybe if you hadn't come off as a dick with your first comment. I didn't specify what type of armor it was to begin with in the video, regardless. Go eat a disc, newblood.

[zotde75]

@HawaiiTalks

Your elitism is showing 

[HawaiiTalks]

@zotde75 If you would have started the conversation in a normal, decent manner, you wouldn't be catching flak. Regardless, you have your opinion and I have mine. We differ...leave it at that.

[whunt1986]

I've played about 12 hours of Jugg over the weekend, and I agree that mortar is so weak, mainly in it's aoe, compared to T1/T2. Though, this is closed beta, so I'm sure some changes will change in the future versions, with the right input.

[Dillbark1]

Great vid Arch, although 2:40 made me laugh at how sad it is he didnt die. I know there was probably 6-7 times you hit me with the mortar and i should have died, i felt bad :( It needs to get changed!

[TheDokdek]

I believe you reload on weapon switch if you did not complete the reload animation before switching.

[fujilives]

I always thought of the mortar as a mini-nuke... it looks more like a "slightly larger grenade" in this.

[fujilives]

Wow, the cap around 1:00 said it all. What the hell? I hated playing heavy in T2 (I was terrible at it compared to say, a light-anything or med-shield-pack) - but even I would play it occasionally because the mortar was necessary to "get things done". The delay is too short and the explosion is too weak. Feels more like a gimp rocket launcher than anything. How the HELL did that capper not get instantly obliterated?

[Psychobrad25]

Damn even with nerfed motors I don't want to be messing with a guy like you in Tribes.

[theOzz13]

Well, they got the color right

[pdo400]

HiRez are retards... what's new.

They've put more work into the ridiculously huge weapon models and over the top reloads than the basics of gameplay.

[Chadwich]

Ouch. Definitely needs some love.

A damage increase and AoE increase, for sure.

[Serlewsh]

Thanks for doin this Arch..

[HawaiiTalks]

@Serlewsh No probs...if they tweak it, I'll be happy.