Added: 3 years ago
From: joeltornatore
Views: 206,446
Sort by time | Sort by thread (beta)

Link to this comment:

Share to:

All Comments (348)

Sign In or Sign Up now to post a comment!
  • sorry to say but I do not believe that that is a 10a..

  • I love that you have a healthy enough ego to actually show this video. Well done on that count. Keep on climbing! :-)

  • Comment removed

  • no bad comment bt that just looked sore ouch.

  • This is why you don't teach 5.9 climbers to lead.

    Sure, it is easy enough to find 5.9 or 5.8 or even 5.7 climbs out there.

    but a 5.9 indoor, top rope climber. just is not mentaly, or phisicaly prepared.

    nor do they have the skill set to balance, or dead hang while clipping, nor the ability to rest/recover. Or any clue what do do in the event of things going wrong.

    New climbers Panic on top rope. Why would you want them on lead?

  • It even looks like he snagged the draw on the way through. but most of the problem was he was as far right as he was up.

    I like to laugh at people like this. doing dumb things out of fear of falling, then falling anyway.

    This is always why I believe people should be confedent, and competent climbers. before leading.

    Taking a nOOb climber, out leading, even on a 5.7 prety much ensures, they are going to get hurt.

    I want my climbers, confedent 5.10d climbers, before I give them draws.

  • no experience....

  • he definitely should not be leading i have climbed this route its a simple 5.9 its not rocket science people ,  and kept his feet on the wall knowing he was falling not a whole lot of sense in that

  • Eeee that's an unfortunate bail.

  • Wow, a lot if ignorant comments here. Where do you get off telling this guy that he shouldn't be leading at all?

    1. Going off-route when you're pumped is bad - then you're just pumped and off-route.

    2. The belay was tight, but not responsible for the inversion.

    3. He didn't come off the rock very well. He kept his right foot on too long.

    4. He pivots around his right foot as he falls, as if it catches on something.

    5. No helmet is OK sometimes if you know what you're doing.

  • @OkeyPlus Thanks. You're right on all points.

  • @OkeyPlus @joeltornatore besides what okey mentioned i have a couple of questions ( just started leading.. trying to figure more stuff out to prevent such a disaster )

    1.did you push yourself off the wall really hard ( can't really tell )

    2.did the belayer jump as you came off the wall ?

    maybe all this could have been avoided with a good jump from the belayer...even though you did kept/pivot your right foot (after all that's the right way to catch a lead fall )

  • @cehuu the problem was the right leg. that's why he turned aroun

    For sure if he had belayed softer (jumping, let rope through the belay device) there wouldnt be that kind of thing, but you just see a part of the rock. So you dont know how the wall is like in the lower part of the wall.

    but all in all it was the leg :)

    just go in the gym and pratcice all kind of falls,

    invest couple of days in that..

    big falls, falls when traversing, etc.

    its important for the belayer to know how to belay

  • @czarny181 yeah .. i guess ur right

    looked at it a few times it seems that he pushed himself to the right with that right leg... while the really tight rope/ no jump was pulling him to the left

    w/e i dunno.. too much stuff went wrong.. poor fellow :(

  • Comment removed

  • @OkeyPlus Great analysis!

    I would caution on 5 though. Helmets save lives, and prevent a ton of unnecessary pain. Overhung sport and TR I can understand no helmet, same with climbs WELL within your limits and abilities (or really hot out!). But crags are getting crowded, rocks break, people drop gear. I have a buddy who got hit by a dropped biner while eating a sandwich before starting a climb. His brain bucket was clipped to his pack, which he was sitting on. Shit happens, but a helmet helps.

  • @OkeyPlus

    Knowledge and experience are not a excuse for not using a helmet. If you are on lead you should have a helmet on. Period. It takes two seconds, and if it bothers you, is awkward or whatever you excuse to cover your pride ridden ego that your too bad ass for a helmet cause you are a good climber than make that choice on your own accord. Read the book deep survival and you will see, knowledge, arrogance and experience lead to accidents.

  • Jaysus... looks like a pretty negotiable route. New to climbing?

  • So you're good enough to be climbing without a helmet already eh? Smooth. Tell your partner giving you the belay next time too that a little extra slack is never a bad thing, and can avoid the little inversion you had there the next time.

  • LOL IM COMING DOWNNNNNNNNNNNN WEEEEE

  • his left foot catches the end of the rope that's clipped in... would probably be hard to avoid even pushing off on uneven faces I suspect. Thanks for sharing, glad you're ok!

  • Hello, I know nothing about mountain climbing but about mountain safety, I can not understand how they are not using a climbing helmet, you can stumble to a meter high and die from a blow to the head, are supposed to wear a helmet, is the basic requirement for any mountain sport.

  • I have a cabin in Pinecrest, absolutely love the entire western sierra range

  • Skip to 1:08 for the fall.

  • @joeltornatore It seems you let go of your hands instead of jumping off. When you do that, your body start rotating while falling. If you need to take a fall, jump away from the wall.

  • WOOOOH we have the same chalk bag

  • Comment removed

  • @allenniasari the belayer couldn't take any slack without pulling him off the wall. Its lead climbing, if you take the slack you pull the climber off the wall.

  • @snocket

    in this Rare case, had the belayer not LET him climb off rout, he wouldhave been better off.

    He was off route and more off rout than he was high. the way he came off did not matter, he was moving more horizontaly than verticaly, the fall was going to suck.

  • @Northernblades You can be off route to the side and fall a horizontal swing without flipping, what i am pointing out is he needs to learn that when hes falling not to go limp rag-doll or he will flip. You can push of slightly and rotate towards your last pro for a more controlled fall.

  • @snocket being 4-5 feet off rout is not a big deal, but when your only 1 foot over the anchor. the 5 foot off rout, can whip you pretty badly. that along with catching your belay line on the way through. along with a belayer not giving a soft catch.

    will pretty much lead to this result more often than not. IMHO.

    if he were 10 feet higher, and just as far off rout, and his belayer "soft caught him"

    it would have been moot.He could have easily moved left 4 feet, before he fell.

  • @allenniasari The amount of slack is fine.  As a matter of fact, the belayer should had jumped to make a soft catch. It's called a dynamic belay.

  • dude that was an awful thing to watch. I hope you are ok. I recon you should stick to belaying, leading is not your thing.

  • @allenniasari what kind of comment is this? lol

  • im sorry but that was just horrible, horrible climbing...or rather a lack of climbing

  • Take?

  • I hope you didnt sustain any head injuries.. thought of investing in a helmet?

  • @MXRider217 yep, i always wear a helmet now. I smacked my back on the wall, but no injuries. Thanks!

  • Not got a f@ckin clue!

  • this route looks really easy 

  • 1:08 .... to save times of u r life!

  • Comment removed

  • Was there a little lack of "Take" and "Taking In" commands?

  • you basically fell off a ladder

  • looks to me like he just didn't fall properly, along with poor belaying.

  • Lucked out on this fall, try toe tucking. Could prevent some pretty serious head injuries down the road. Looks like a beautiful route.

  • jajajaj That is a no rope route

  • lmao!

    

  • I've been readin a lot of stupid comments and got really pissed off. First of all, that route is easy as fuck, second of all, you shouldn't have gone to the right, third of all, how the fuck can you say you've been doing this for 5 years now, since you barely climbed 3 meters and your muscles gave in. The rest of you idiots, stop blaming the belayer, except maybe for acceptin such a noob as a lead climber. The balance created by going to the right could not be prevented except maybe by a genius.

  • Sorry mate, I've been a lead climber many many times. I know the stress, the insecurity, all that adds up to the muscle stress. But that shit was easy as hell, and I can't say anything except that you lack the experience and the strength to be a lead climber. Don't take it in a bad way, if we wouldn't aim high, we'd never get anywhere, but you must accept that it's your fault, work a little more, and try again. I wish you all the best.

  • I think this route was a 10a.

  • @joeltornatore looks like a 5.8 at most dude

  • Wear a helmet to save cracking your head open , even with that distance from your cam or stopper you can still smack a rock and die

  • That's Dissy on belay!

    

  • Comment removed

  • In your title you should blame the belayer also, your foot at 1:10 caused rotation and bad belay exacerbated the hell out of it

  • Comment removed

  • Should not have been leading that pitch at all !!

  • Totally the belayers fault. Glad to hear you weren't seriously hurt.

  • Either he wasn't tied in right or the belayer was day dreaming.

  • what dificulty is that wall? 5.6?

  • Perfect example of a reason to wear a helmet right there......

  • he didn't tie into his harness right. he only tied into the leg loops what a dumb shit. on a second note anyone who blamed that fall on anything else is stupid also

  • @hatedrivesus sorry, but I was tied in correctly.

    i listened to your guitar videos. they're really good!

  • @joeltornatore did you tie into the belay loop instead?

  • @joeltornatore The rope was not tied into the waist belt, either that or you are wearing your harness TOO low, If you flip in a harness its because 1 of those 2 reasons, from the looks of yours, you were tied into the belay loop or the leg loop only, both are a NEVER thing to do. Just sayin'

  • What's the name of this route?

  • I HAVE THOSE SAME SHOES!! :D

  • Try top-roping to familiarize yourself with the climb.

  • No, you traversed sideways, that's why you swung. Your foot got caught on the rope which flipped you. Your belayer should have gave you a sport loop.

  • @ih8tusernam3s My foot did not get caught on the rope. You can see that pretty clearly even on the youtube video. My right foot is effectively stuck to the wall, and I'm pushing off of it as I fall to the right. My belayer stumbled, which took up the slack. But yes, I had traversed off to the right. The perfect storm!

  • @joeltornatore it gets caught on your rope on the down swing

  • @Stratmastuh yes, at 1:10 you can see my left leg in the rope, but i'm already flipped over.

  • @joeltornatore I think we can both agree that it exacerbates the problem somewhat significantly

  • Helmet?

  • @keith915 On every climb since then!

  • @joeltornatore hahaha good idea,i was gonna say, "lead climb and NO helmet???" lols

  • @joeltornatore what was the difficulty?

  • @keith915 He was too cool for that ...

  • Hm. Well, you've certainly weathered the nasty comments admirably. Can you explain how this happened? I don't think I've ever seen a fall quite like it. Was it purely a body position thing?

  • @ferrells0987 I was to the right of my last clip, and was tired and gave up. As I did I back-flagged my right foot and it stuck the wall a bit, which started to turn me clockwise. My belayer stumbled at about the same time, and he quickly stepped back a few feet, taking up the slack. The taught rope acted less like a bungee, and I became a pendulum.

    FWIW, at that point I had been climbing for about 5 years, plenty in the gym, and on trad and sport routes. Some comments are rather silly indeed.

  • This kind of upside down swing is rare without getting a foot hooked behind the rope. Was he only tied into his lower hardpoint?

  • @ferrells0987 No, I was tied into both.

  • i think to this was your first leed climb cos you were shitting your self and could not move from the spot you fell from. i think this was like grade 10 to 14 easy

  • stick to indoor climbing untill you can get some strenth up your not ready to climb outdoors yet m8 i would hate to see you die from doing something you know nothing about ive taught lots of ppl to climb and i think you need some lessons

  • Is it just me, or does that climb look easier than he makes it out to be? And yes, I climb and boulder.

  • Go take some falls on steep stuff so you learn how to fall and your belayer learns how to give a soft catch - that flip was the result of the climber being too stiff and the belayer not giving a soft catch

  • haha wat the hell! that guy shouldnt have been leading

  • Are you okay? I'm really scared of leading and it's because when I take falls they always end up badly like this...someone please teach me how to fall?

  • why no helmet

  • The lead climber should have a helmet if he falled like that.

  • lololol

  • did he died?

  • WHAT A TOOL!

    

  • How did that happen?!

  • Looks like to me that the climber only tied to the bottom tie-in point of his harness and thats why his top half went upside down

  • you got it your doing good.... my hands are slipping !!!!

  • @freybag49 : nah, it's not the belayer filming! that would be dangerous :)

  • Is that a static rope or just a bad belay? No dampening whatsoever!

  • @FLATblacktical : my belayer slipped just as i fell, so he took up the slack.

  • how can you not complete that, it was barely even vertical

  • thats why you wear a helmet when you climb

  • @Evak103 : yep, i should have been wearing one. i always wear my helmet ever since.

  • and thants wat i call a flapper

  • wear a damn helmet. you make climbers look stupid

  • @cartoondoc : yeah. although it's kinda hard to fall gracefully, this one is particularly bad!

  • Be afraid of people with shinny gear! lol.

    Whever somone would show up at the crags with shinny gear clipped to the outside of their pack we would move to another climb. lol

  • hugh hefner could climb this route blindfolded

  • I'm trying to figure out how he fell off of that resting position. Interesting. He was on it for like 5 seconds and then moved back left and fell.

  • Hey I live in Sonora, nice vid!

  • you walk up the freakin thing with no hands! Why is this guy leading when he obviously doesn't know what he's doing?!

  • @wtfmickey : hey, i need to learn sometime, right? thanks for the support ;)

  • I would recommend people with all the gear no idea at least top rope shit before trying to lead a blatant hvs lol. If only for your own safety

  • @freybag49 ha! no there is a third person with the camera. thanks for your concern. i wouldn't feel safe if my belayer was holding a camera!

  • This is probably equivalent to a 4b climb in the uk...which is what my dog climbs hahaha. Sport climbing...stick indoors!!!

  • That was unusually uncoordinated...

  • @kodisilver : agreed!

  • gotta love sport climbing. It allows just anyone people to, "give it a go" because they're bolts. Sport climbing is neither.

  • jejejejeje, he should stay with top ropes!

  • I like Toastbroad

  • You got to be kidding !! I've scrambled steeper stuff than this...Dude in the Vid,,,You got no business in the Mountains...You're a $7500,00 Helcopter rescue waiting to happen..

  • @wrxmike123 : nah, you'd never need a heli-rescue from table mountain. it's a 10-minute level hike.

  • why wasnt the chap using helmet?

  • OMG that "rollin" sounds fucking annoying!!

  • what kind of protection was installed in the rock face??

  • @SymAmineC8H11N stainless steel bolts were already in place. quick draws were mine.

  • @joeltornatore you mean like pitons or actual threaded bolts for like masonry?? thank god, cant imagine what would happen if it were cams...

  • @SymAmineC8H11N threaded bolts, with epoxy. very safe!

  • @joeltornatore & do you use a rotary hammer drill??

  • @SymAmineC8H11N i didn't place these bolts/hangers. i expect those who do will use a battery-powered rotary hammer drill, although some of my friends still use a hammer and chisel.

  • @joeltornatore yeah, i wonder if on real expeditions if the leader ever uses a portable rotary hammer drill? what about their packs do the wear them on their ascent or secure it to the line & relay it up after climbing??

  • @SymAmineC8H11N If placed correctly on solid rock a cam would hold that fall no problems.

  • @juanestebanmt78 yeah, "correctly" there are too many variables... i see all the climbing equipment & see that it holds up in footage, but only for just the climber, but what about a pack other gear on a 6'1" 250lber??

  • @SymAmineC8H11N There are may variables in climbing, what gear you choose or trust, is left to the climber to decide how much risk they want to carry. I have come to believe that experience, technique and knowledge of the climber are a bigger factor in determining safety than the type of protection used. There are too many assumptions made about fixed gear (variables ignored). I know of two incidents where poorly placed bolts have lead to death. Less of an issue on well established crags.

  • Read this, it is the belayers fault. If the camera would have been on the belayer he most likely would have been pulling in the last little bit of rope and probably leaning backwards. My friend danny did the same thing to me once. True the guy put his foot into the wall but that won't cause falls like this. I fall all the time. Better to have the guy catch you though then have a big f-ing loop out and let you hit the ground. in between these two extremes is the right way to catch somebody.

  • @Rfitzp79 so that's pretty much what happened. my belayer was on a sloped slab, and stumbled backwards as i fell, taking up some slack. these things happen, and i've continued to climb with him. i'm glad he held on to the rope!

  • @Rfitzp79 Finally someone with climbing experience who actually knows what the are talking about. you can't dispute first hand experience!

  • @Rfitzp79 The title should read

    how not to belay

  • @Rfitzp79 100% agreed

  • @Rfitzp79 Agreed. Belayer pulled too much tension causing the climber to swing rather than fall.

  • hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

  • thats why gumbies shouldn't lead...

  • belayer should have had more slack out to avoid a tight penji.

  • skip to 1:10 to save 1 minute and 10 seconds of your life!

  • @incadanman18 ha! but then you'd miss out on the climatic buildup :)

  • or better yet, watch the compilation video. search for "Climb_Smart" here on youtube. it's from user "pgdarmi"

  • hillarious

  • theres good or bad mistakes, a good one you learn from. Really bad ones you never get the chance to repeat... I read the posts and it seems like a good one! lol it's strange how the rock sometimes seems to 'mind rape' you, your in one spot not really doing anything and feel stuck when your not, start to think you haven't got the strength to go up, start to believe you'll fall and for some reason start losing all your strength and energy while doing nothing? I against me vs myself and the rock!

  • helmet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • FAIL!

  • I'd say you'd only just made the transition from top-roped climbing to leading as you let go of the rock like you were on a TR. Not enough jumping off the wall with your feet when your hands were coming off to keep you upright.

    Thanks for posting this and commenting so people can learn from it.

  • In Soviet Russia mountain climbs you

  • how did that happen plz (so i know how to avoid it)

  • @TheLonelyHappyMeal i was too far to the right of my last clip, and i put foot on the wall when i fell, which caused me to pivot and flip around. had i not reached to the wall with my foot, the swing would have been fine.

  • @joeltornatore oh i see now, glad you didn't properly hurt yourself

  • @TheLonelyHappyMeal and this can also happen when your rope goes between your legs, so also avoid that haha.

  • @wmruys

    Good rule of thumb is to keep your rope between your legs when you are above the pro, over your left leg/thigh if right of pro, over right leg if left of pro, and NEVER behind the ankle anywhere. You did a good job with the rope management and that is not what flipped you.

    This kind of thing is what motivates me to wear a brain bucket no matter what, sport and TR, belaying too. You'll look less silly than the dude wearing his brains on the rock.

  • @TheLonelyHappyMeal

    The key to this is two fold. The climber is correct in his falling form was not very good. He should have not dragged his foot durring the fall. The other important thing to note is that it was a relatively hard catch. this could be belayer error, or rope drag (this route does seem to be wandering a bit). The dragging foot starts the inversion, but the hard catch is what whips him upside down. In the future, bent knees and hands out. (also never kick off the wall)

  • @tdawgmoneymoney7 thnx (Y)

  • @TheLonelyHappyMeal or where a helmet. If your ever lead climbing (or ever climbing outside of a climbing wall for that matter!) always where a helmet to reduce the risk of getting yor head caved in (not sure if you did or not but just saying!)

  • If that's not an advert for wearing helmet nothing is.

  • not sure exactly why this happened, but be careful out there

  • dude, you didn't really fall wrong. you just had the shittest balayer in the world. im sorry man that had to have sucked. find a new climbing partner who knows what they're doing haha

  • OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHH you feellllll like a bitch

  • My balls aren't large enough to climb outside the gym haha

  • ooooh! ouch what a bad whipper

  • This Video Is cool too and I have family who do this too.

  • That's unfortunate. I can't lie though... I laughed pretty hard at your misfortune.

    You've got bigger balls than I do.

    I can barely climb my staircase.

    And I live on the first floor.

  • looked like there were a lot of jugs, lot different when you up there I'm sure though lol

  • Hello. Ima buy a helmet now.