Power Of The Vice President

[aploo1]

is it just me, or has the "war " been over for quite some time? the actual "war" in iraq ended years ago - so we are not in a "time of war" as he says.

second... when is America NOT at war? we have been at war for the better part of 50 years. realistically speaking, we will never NOT be at war. so things like this will always be legal.

try GW for war crimes.

[smarternu]

Isn't it interesting that everyone is talking about the Illinois governor and any possible association that Obama may have been involved with the Senate Bribe Thang, but no one is talking about Cheney and Gonzales being indicted. Why isn't THAT all over the paper on a daily basis?

Liberal Biased Media indeed.

[wingnut4427]

Lets see. We were "attacked" on 911. In our fear we were convinced to give the president unprecedented powers to fight "Terrorists". We were told the "Terrorists" Hated us for our "Freedom". But the actions of this administration have done more to undermine our freedoms than any terrorist organization alone ever could have. SO I ask You. "who is the bigger threat?" Our government. Or this made up Al-qaeda ? We know all of this was a false Flag Operation. We know The bush administration lied.

[mrbriscoe2001]

"We know it was a false flag operation"Rigggght!

[kingcobra101z]

That is a lie. Look into a Terrorist lifestyle, you can find it pretty easily on the internet as they wear it like a badge of honor and they rly hate the US and not just us, any body that's not like them. They sat down looked at what was permitted what wasn't and took action. As a result since 9/11 there hasn't been another terrorist attack on this country. What freedom of ours has been taken away? Every one knows about it what happend.

[wingnut4427]

debating people like you is like trying to break down a brick wall with your head. For the sake of argument.. Google Operation Northwoods. Then CIA Al Qaeda connection. The for shits & giggles google The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment. After you get done with that homework. Mabey you'll look into 9/11 a little more.

[kingcobra101z]

What? All of that is Irrelavent! It has nothing to deal with what questions Cheny answered in the videos and what I said about Terrorism. Other parts of it, is just bull shit. So if you knew that a terrorist had info about a threat on the US, info that would result in the death of your family, or the death of people that you care about or know and that if he were waterboarded, you would be able to get that info and prevent the attack, you wouldn't do it?

[wingnut4427]

Then Let me pose this question to you. If a terrorist group was threatening millions of American lives with a bomb. And Americas policy is "We do negotiate with terrorists" wouldn't it be in the best interest of America to negotiate? When anyone tells You to do something that's out of character you should ask yourself 4 basic questions.

1. why would they say that ?

2. who are they working for ?

3. what is in it for them ?

4. how will it effect me & my loved ones in the long run ?

[wingnut4427]

because if they can do it to a "Terrorists suspect" whats to stop them from saying that You are a terror suspect in the future ? These people do not deserve our trust. And as far as Dick up there goes. He can die a tragic, horrifying, & Painful death for all I care. He is a blight on America & a cancer to the world.

[kingcobra101z]

Or we could just waterboard and get the information? Jeez this isn't rocket science dude. Well ask yourself those 4 questions when Obama says that it is out of the US's character to waterboard terrorists. Doesn't rly matter I suppose as the info on the techniques used was released and now these techniques are useless.

[wingnut4427]

What happens when they declare You a terrorist & water board you? Or What about someone You care about ? Because once they cross that line ( No matter who you are or where You are from ) & human rights are removed from the equation. Then & only then will it matter the most. torture is torture no matter how you slice it. & just because someone says Your the bad guy doesn't make it so & there is no excuse acceptable for torture. Ever. & as for Obama Don't like him, never will, didn't vote for him

[kingcobra101z]

I think that if I do not organize suicide bombings, burn American flags while chanting "jihad will rule the world" and "death to America" or calling for the death of Israel I don't think they will call me a terrorist. Then define torture for me? Is it shoving bamboo needles under a mans finger tips and refusing to treat any physical wounds? Or is it throwing them into a flexiable wall with with a towel wrapped around his neck to prevent any neck injuries and a docter present?

[wingnut4427]

I'm going to send you a link. If you think water boarding is the only thing going on. You'll be in for a shock brother.

[kingcobra101z]

You rly do have your head stuck up your ass don't you? I didn't realize rape was apart of enhanced interrogation techniques, why? Because it isn't, and yet you send me links of this shit acting like it is. And those men have been punished under the Uniform Code of Military Justice for prisoner abuse.

[wingnut4427]

Apparently Your head is deeper in than mine. Throughout this whole thing. I have never gotten nasty with you. But your attitude shows unequivocally the type of person you are. It makes no difference to me , one way or another what You think of me. I don't care if you agree or disagree. There is NEVER any excuse for torture. Period ! And one day & I promise you it's coming You'll understand exactly what I'm telling you. May god help your misguided heart before it's too late.

[kingcobra101z]

Well when you send me pictures like that insinuating that the administration is condoning this type of behavior, forgive if I come across as an asshole, maybe you should look in a mirror, you'll find another asshole there. You obviously do not know what torture is. And you have clearly demonstrated that you are willing to let hundreds if not thousands of people die because you THINK shooting water up someones nose is torture.

[wingnut4427]

Tell ya what. If it's not torture. then have it done to you for about an hour. & make sure you put the video of it online. If your convinced that it's just a pleasant little sinus wash after your done.. Then I may be inclined to buy your bull shit. But until you do .. Go fuck yourself your fascist cunt ! oops .. did I say that ? Try using that pea in your head you call a brain. If it wasn't unpleasant why the hell would they do it to force information out of people.God man !! Your stupid as hell

[kingcobra101z]

We are dealing with Muslim terrorists. Their views in their religion is to resist as much as possible & if they can't they are ALLOWED to spill their guts. It won't happen to me because I have done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment. As I said before, if I DO NOT organize suicide bombings, burn American flags while chanting "death to America" or calling for the death of Israel I don't think they will call me a terrorist. You calling me names is unpleasent, that is torture.

[LeysYboy]

u really are a idot, the international commity of the red cross found that it WAS tourture, and that the majority of the people in these blacksites are actually innocent. n can you please tell me how you think that detaining someone without trial for an indefinate amount of time without a trial, isnta violation of their rights?

[kingcobra101z]

Your not rly grasping the gravity of the situation. They sat down and said we can do this and do that and they said go ahead, with flying colors, it isn't that it is torture or not it was that it was permitted by people other than cheney and I rly don't care if we tortured, again look into the terrorist life style. Since you know nothing about Islam then you rly don't understand why after all efferts were used they used toture, on any one else but Muslims torture is useless.

[kingcobra101z]

People have a very distorted view of the definition of the word INNOCENT as you adequately show.

[LeysYboy]

yer my definiion of innocent is where youve done nothing wrong, which the majority of people havent. n personnly i think that if Americans like you werent such a bunch of assholes then there wouldnt be any terrorists. in fact, since the american goverement uses the threat of tourture and bombing to stop anything that goes against their intrests in the middle east, does that not make them terrorists?

[LeysYboy]

yer u idot cos there were the crusades plus thats incredibly rascist the muslim religion doesnt advocate war. n u spelt Qu'ran wrong.

[kingcobra101z]

1st of all, Islam is a religion, to say you're a Muslim doesn't make you apart of a race. 2nd the crusades were a response to Muslims attacking Christian lands for 450 years. And 3rd Islam teaches it's followers to wage war among the unbelievers to spread Islamic law. They can't forcibly convert you so you ether take dimmi status which gives you less rights than Muslims, if you do not except dimmi status they make war upon you. Like I said READ the "qu'ran"

[LeysYboy]

yer the bible and the torah also have similar messages in, and thats rubbish; we crusaded for jerusalem not because of the moors war with spain. plus the dimmi status, isnt mentioned in the qu'ran only in extremist traditionalist muslim communities. have u ever thought that mabey the "terrorists" actually have some very strong points. neocons like you just belive that their evil, personnlaly i think that 911, was Americas fault not teachings in the qu'ran, hiroshima was worse and tortures wrong

[kingcobra101z]

Ah the moral equivalency argument, just becuase a similar message was written here doesn't excuse Islam for what it is, and btw there are not similar messages written in The Holy Bible. We? You mean Muslims? Originally, before the 1st crusade, Christians and Jews controlled the holy land than Islam began to spread by the sword and threatend lands in Christendom which triggered the 1st crusade. Well the rules of dimmi are discussed in the koron, even though it doesn't use the word dimmi.

[LeysYboy]

no ur wrong. your distinguashing between muslims and other religions. this us and them attitude is what leads to the problem in the first place. and tbh who cares about a forgotten war that has no impact on today. Does Moors atacting spain in the 16th century, when all countrys fought for greed, make it okay for us to torture innocent people?

[kingcobra101z]

Ummmm Islam IS a vastly different religion if there was no distinction than Islam wouldn't have a need to prosecute hindus and other religions now would they? Yes it does. It shows that a country really doesn't have to do anything to be attacked by Muslims, it shows the Muslim fight is not responsive. Torture innocent? You have a very destored definition of the word innocent. Does khalid sheikh mohammed fit into your definition of innocent?

[kingcobra101z]

Really? You do releaze the importance of the date 911? 911 1683 was the time the Christian alliance showed up and crushed the champions of Islam and there attack on Vienna. From there the caliphate fell apart, and bin laden supports the caliphate. In America's forgotton war we defeated muslim pirates who kidnapped American, French, and British sailors, to wage jihad on us. Muslims attacked this country b4 we even had a foreign policy.

[LeysYboy]

your right, 911 is symbolic; symbolic of the day we lost our freedoms, all in the name of security. now its widley accepted that habeus corpus is suspended indefinatly, black sites operated, freedom of speech and protest and privacy regulated and watered down, oil companys and wepons contrators commiting acts against humanity. is all that okay with you? and you wonder why "terrorists" who are supposedly the enemies of the freedoms, that the US hipocrite liers keep on about hate you?

[kingcobra101z]

"your right, 911 is symbolic"

About the only thing said in that post remotly accurate. Yes it is symbolic but not because we lost our freedoms and blah blah blah but for as I stated above. Don't put words into my mouth. I am still free as any American is, no one has lost there freedoms for security purposes. The corruption the US gov. has right now has little to nothing to deal with 911.

[LeysYboy]

ur drifting off the point, the American gov has still effectivly legalised torture, and indefinate improsonment without trial, which does break the geneva convention

[kingcobra101z]

No I'm not. And don't pull that "indefinate improsonment without trial" bs with me. The only problem any one had with the terrorists is where they would go and what kind of trial it would be. Bush wanted to shut down gitmo for the expressed purpose of putting terrorists on trial. You from your statements don't know jack shit about the geneva convention, according to it they should have never been captured but executed.

[LeysYboy]

Are you kiddding, the geneva convention tell to execute terrorists? ur talkin shit. n Bush never once attempted to shut down guantanamo, n tecnicly the geneva convention isnt relevant, because despite claiming we are at war with terror, making terreorists soldiers, they are not classed as POW. therforew they have the same rights as any othercriminal. Or are SUPPOSED to. plus if they have "evidence" for withholding people, then i dont see why it would be a problem to give them a trial

[kingcobra101z]

They have no official uniform or fight for an official military so yes they are exicuted, would it be any different than droping a bomb on the enemy which we already do? Actually Bush talked alot about it but ran into several problems, Obama who signed an executive order to shut it down hasn't inforced it for the same reason. They should be tried in military courts period.

[LeysYboy]

whatever the geneva convention has never said exuction is fine, the US doesw what it always does, it prentends to be the good guy, and just fucks everyone over. it happened with the NATIVE americans, n its happening again. its quite funny that the US gov is willing to torture, murder and startillegal wars, for oil, n have the audacity to pretend that what they do is right

[kingcobra101z]

The GC protects civis and grant certain I guess you could call them rights to POWs they are to classified as POWs and they shouldn't get American rights becuase they are not Americans, so you ether exicute them or stick them in a jail cell for the rest of their life, why do you think some politicians say they should be tried in a military court? The native Americans? WTF? Stay on topic. For oil? ARE YOU FUCKING STUPID OR SOMTHING?

[LeysYboy]

yer reallt IM FUCKIN STUPID SAYS THE BOY WHO THINKS WATERBOARDING ISNT TORTURE. the native americans were just an example, n it has been proven that george bush did demand a monopoly on the oil gain from iraq after the invasion, so obviously oil did influence his decison. personnly i belive that the US have commit more atrocitys than the majority of innocent people who they accuse of bein terrorsists. what sort of a world do we live in you can be arrested and improsoned for the rest of ur life

[kingcobra101z]

Shit hasn't been proven you just so easily buy into any conspiracy theory under the sun, blah blah blah. I personally believe your an ignorant fuck who has no historical perspective and relies on conspiracy theories than what is actually going on! Don't believe me, RESEARCH! Look at the Christians in Egypt that are being persecuted or how about the people in thailand who are killed and their bodies mutilated by the same peole that we fight in Iraq! FUCK YOU YOU IGNORENT DUMB BASTARD!

[LeysYboy]

ohh ur gettin touchy, wonder why that is. N obviously the person saying that torture n detention withut trial is wrong, is ignorant. N if U do ur research ull find that American oil companys did cut a deal with the new iraq gov giving them oil. Everything i have said is a fact, beyond all doubt. plus just because egeyptian are persecuting christains, doesnt make it alright for us to persucte them U DUMB FUCK. I THINK UR SHOULD READ UR OWN COMMENT AND APPLY IT TO URSELF U STUPID TWAT

[kingcobra101z]

Your damn right I am. It is becuase of ignorent morons like you that our enimies get away with murder world wide on a regular bases. I already explained to you the stupidity behind your comments and here you are repeating yourself you obviously do not listen so what ever. Nothing you have said is fact you delusional nut case PERSECUTE THEM DO YOU EVEN FUCKING GET IT! OF COURSE NOT!

[LeysYboy]

im not even going to bother arguing with someone as backwards as you, why dont u just go out and "hang some gays n niggers" obv ur retarded

[kingcobra101z]

You know what go fuck yourself you dumb fuck. I would never treat gays or Black people like that, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I am a racist and homophobe, you know what, I'm not going to even bother. Never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level, and beat you up with experience, and you are clearly experienced.

[LeysYboy]

yer cos torture of innocent people is COMPLEATLY different to rascism and homophobia, hhhm i wonder what what bush n cheney, the two people who legalised these atrociys, are

[kingcobra101z]

Blah blah blah like I said about argueing with idiots.

[LeysYboy]

i no dont no why i bother

[kingcobra101z]

They saved another couple thousand lives by water boarding someone that if got hit by a bus no one would care. Call me crazy but I think it was worth it. What is next a parent smacks her kid on the bottom, is that torture? When that day comes to be, I will feel sorry for the high school football teams here in America.

[wingnut4427]

What does Ventura say about it ? watch?v=FSra-McRZEc

[kingcobra101z]

He means nothing to me. Why would I care what he said.

[besnugg]

The ends justify the means, huh? Next he'll be claiming he was just following orders. This man the biggest enemy of freedom that has ever breathed, and he calls other people terrorist. Ironic, isn't it?