Only a REAL FOOL would claim there is no God! Man creates awesome skyscrapers, fake hearts, tunnels, vehicles etc.. If we are very imperfect then what more can God create THE UNIVERSE! You must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to receive eternal rest in heaven! Simple! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! Repent & accept Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ or HELL?!? Visit cbn. com
Only a REAL FOOL would claim there is no God! Man creates awesome skyscrapers, fake hearts, tunnels, vehicles etc.. If we are very imperfect then what more can God create THE UNIVERSE! You must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to receive eternal rest in heaven! Simple! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! Repent & accept Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ or HELL?!? Visit cbn. com
"The founders and the prigrims . . . " Jefferson and Franklin, and the Puritans, a hundred and fifty years apart, and a galaxy away from each other mentally and philosophically, just lumped together like a bunch of tedious prehistoric white folks. It hardly matters that the grinning smugbutt can't even pronounce "pilgrims" -- that 's the tip of the ignorance iceberg.
@SC1337 I don't like censorship, but there has to come a point when we don't allow the dregs of society to have the oxygen of a platform. Can you not prevent the odious onebadgs400 from posting?
ok christians next time your seriously injured lay there and pray and see what happens? nothing- the rest of us will go to the hospital and be helped by ordinary humans who atleast will give us a fighting chance to live or be healed! Reminds me of all the stupid people who let their children die trying to pray away the cancer instead of getting chemo and proper" secular "treatment
He want's to come over as noble by declaring to defend anyone's right to be theologically wrong, but doesn't seem to grasp the fact that he's actually talking about himself in this particular case. His condescending laugh shows just how noble of a character he really is. The beautiful thing about the Hitchslap is that it hits glass-wearing faces as well :-)
@xGimpyx Yep - and I have to ask: who the fuck, with any intelligence whatever, takes any notice of the corrupt and nasty bible, written as most of it was, by ignorant, desert-dwelling Bronze Age goatherds?
Sometimes the hardest thing to understand is the most obvious.
Its amusing to watch a man whose ethnic group was slavered by Christians, defending the very religion that once said black people belonged to an inferior stratus. If I were black the last religion in the world I d support should be Christianity
@imax1971 you should note that I used the past tense. Study the history of slavery; half-breeds were referred to a part-human. Christian anthropologists tried to show africans as a different species.
@GhostofHitchens Don't follow down the Same road as Mr. Hitchens. That will get you nowhere. His behavior while alive had no positivity to it at all... Follow the light of Christ. He, along with the Church will lead you in the right direction.. Oh, speaking of Africans, my parish as well as surrounding parish's are raising money for "Neduora & Shepherds" to support building a water well in Nigeria... You're right, religion is so evil!... Feel free to donate...
@imax1971 Try not to be so dense. I note you ignore my points.
One more time - 'past tense'
Your sarcasm is witless, pointless, ineffective. It indicates a low intellectual level.
Your christ does not exist, he may never have existed - very little reliable historical evidence - and the church is a last bastion of primitive superstition in a world which is rapidly leaving it behind. Your smug and complacent reference to 'charitable' work is incomplete thinking. Religion is WRONG. Untruthful.
@GhostofHitchens So I guess you aren't going to participate in the efforts my parish is making to help some Nigerians to have clean drinking water... Donating just a dollar would help.. I guess you are too busy acting intellectually superior to people you don't know takes precedence over helping the less fortunate. Once the project is funded and the well is built, I wonder if those it directly impacts would be of the opinion that "charitable work is incomplete thinking"...
"I'm doing charitable work, so I'm a good person".
Life is never as simple as that, nor is helping africans as simple as giving them a well. If you had any real idea of world affairs, you might understand, but I doubt that you ever will, like many of your countrymen, who aren't even sure where Africa is.
In your case, I don't need to 'act' superior. It's beyond my control.
@imax1971 A small postscript for you - 'christian' religion spreads AIDS & death throughout africa by preaching that condoms are sinful. THERE's evil for you .... it may not be your lot who do it (mostly it's the damned Catholics) but the world would be better off without any of you.
@GhostofHitchens "'christian' religion spreads AIDS & death throughout africa by preaching that condoms are sinful. THERE's evil for you"....... Now that comment is as sophomoric, and quite frankly, idiotic as they come. I can't correspond with a person that has such deranged opinions. Sorry.
Like I said before, look for the light of Christ. He will lead you down the right path. I really wish you the best.. I really do... Peace, friend..
@imax1971 It is neither sophomoric nor idiotic. It is a documented directive spread by ignorant African clergy, and your calling it idiotic does not make it so. You have a large opinion of the powers of your own speech. Furthermore, you can't call someone idiotic in one breath and then wish them light and peace in the next. That really is deranged -- or fragmented in some vital function of consciousness. Actually that's what the delusion of faith requires: hard separation of mental realities.
@manthasagittarius1 Sorry, the comment was sophomoric and idiotic. How am I "deranged" to point out that a comment is idiotic then wish someone peace in closing??? Is a guidance counselor that points out a troubled kids idiotic behavior "deranged" for wishing the kid all the best in life?
Like I said to the other guy, don't follow the same path as Hitchens... It will lead you nowhere.. Peace be with you..
@imax1971 Now on top of being wrong about the condoms in Africa issue -- and you are just wrong about it -- you're condescending, to liken yourself to a (patient and so forbearing, right?) guidance counselor who points out the error of a young person's perceptions and then wishes him well. You're not standing anywhere so high to look down on anyone from, you see. Chronic mental peace may not be the best thing to wish on a thinker anyway. It's only complacency -- yours is quite smug.
@imax1971 You have already been comprehensively corrected by manthasagittarius1, who has neatly exposed your misguided thinking, so I'll go easy on you.
Try to understand that your 'light of christ' is a fantasy - wish-thinking. You might as well follow Santa's sleigh-bells. Join us in the world of reality; it's a much more interesting place.
@GhostofHitchens He "corrected" me? His comment was as sophomoric as yours... In my response back to him, I pointed out why..
"so I'll go easy on you"... You'll go easy on me? Don't you realize that I feel sorry for you? You are headed down the same road has Hitchens. He lived a life of negativity and hate.
I wish you all the best... Don't forget to donate to the well project... Peace..
@imax1971 You insult and condescend, you profess pity, and then you wish peace. You know something? You don't have the courage of your presumed superiority. Just be rude and arrogant and let it stand, then take your lumps. Don't hide behind pax vobiscum as a rearguard shield over your smug butt on your way out of a hostile message. No one is fooled. Someone like you wishing someone else peace is an essential untruth.
@manthasagittarius1 I'm not hiding behind pax vobiscum... I truly wish peace for all people... Even those I may disagree with...
You have the audacity to hypocritically write "You insult and condescend" when in your first comment to me you wrote "hard separation of mental realities" regarding my Christian faith! That not only is an insult towards me, but towards over a billion people... Look in the mirror before casting judgement on others...
@imax1971 Well -- we've finally cut through the treacle, haven't we? It is about hard separation of mental realities, and the entire argument about whether the belief system you preach has anything real to offer that the believer himself does not supply on his own. Condescension cuts both ways. You still pretend not to know how your glib wishes annoy. Saul of Tarsus did (Romans12:20) -- I do not believe his intentions were loftier than getting even, and I don't trust yours either.
@imax1971 First, this is a rough game, so don't holler tit for tat "you did me first". I don't recognize that ploy as valid. Second, I don't accept the appeal to the perceived majority: I don't care how many people hold your views, or might be insulted by mine. Belief systems are notorious for being very widely held by hordes of the uncritical. Third -- speaking of hard mental realities does not insult as your infantilizing comparisons and epithets do -- "idiotic, sophomoric."
@imax1971 YES, imax, I have audacity. A pale reflection of the audacity he had manning the breach, but I really think no less than his disgust at bullshit.
@manthasagittarius1 Rom 12:20?? I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that you have never even picked up a Bible.. Be honest with yourself. You haven't. Have you? Your transparent Atheist talking points are as sophomoric as they come...
You have gotten angry. Why? I sincerely wished you the best in life. You clearly have a void in your life. I honestly hope that one day you fill that void... I really do... Peace, friend.
@imax1971 If you like to throw paychecks away, give the one you owe me to a service that provides condoms to impoverished African women. I have far more than a passing familiarity with the bible, and my reference is apt. Do you hold some naive assumption that if I really knew the bible, I could not resist its message? Don't diagnose without expertise either -- "I wish you well, but YOU must have a void." Face it: it's simply you who are the irritant in the context of this exchange.
@manthasagittarius1 Yes, I think if you read any of the Gospels you couldn't resist the message.. If you do read them and still resist because of your predisposition that they are some how false, then Mr. Hitchens and the like did their job well..
@imax1971 "I think if you read any of the Gospels you couldn't resist the message" -
Have the grace not to credit us with your own gullibility. We assume that they are false because there is NO evidence that they are anything else.
Why on earth would you believe the contents of a book written more than 1800 years ago by people who believed not only their own brand of nonsense, but also witchcraft and evil spirits? It would be laughable, but for the tragedy of it all.
@imax1971 Well, you're wrong again, and I'm really a latecomer to Hitchens, so you're wrong about that too. I had it figured out by my teens, after a long childhood of unusually concentrated church participation and study. For some of us, critical thinking works on unfounded convictions quite organically over time, from the inside. We don't need to be yanked out of one belief and into another, the way you pull a sheep on a rope. Think what you like -- and be wrong. Narrow and wrong.
@GhostofHitchens The Gospels were written by men that gave eyewitness accounts of the "extraordinary" miracles performed by Jesus Christ... The "evidence" is right in front of you. You simply don't believe it.
History tells the tale of Marxist ideology.. On paper it looks great. In practice it lead to genocide and human suffering... It is a flawed ideology and your hero embraced it... He also supported the ridiculous war in Iraq. He is not one to look up to, friend.
@imax1971 Oh dear - doomed to failure, aren't you? You seem not to know your own religion.
The earliest surving copy of the gospels dates to C4th; only fragments exist before then. None was written earlier than 65 years after the death of JC, so HTF do you know by whom they were written, when the scholars aren't sure?
The gospels are NOT evidence. They don't even agree. And if they did, no difference.
There is nothing to support their being true. Their mere existence is not proof of anything.
@imax1971 Your naiivety regarding Marxism is in that you pursue the fallacy of assuming that because evil men quoted it for evil purpose, that it must necessarily be evil in and of itself. Not so. Be logical.
Christianity has been used for evil purpose for 2000 years. It has more to answer for. Will you stand alongside the Inquisition because you are a christian? or the Borgias? Grow up, do.
You really are not qualified for this debate. I suggest you go learn some real information.
@GhostofHitchens "I suggest you go learn some real information.".. Marxist theory only works in the minds of those in academia.. You know, the "intellectuals" like Hitchens that think they know everything.. It is fundamental flawed and will always lead to Communism and oppressive dictators.. History proves this...
Marx: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"... Sounds good on the surface.. But who's the referee??? The answer is why it is flawed.
@imax1971 You really are full of yourself, aren't you? Determined to show how erudite you are, but failing every time to respond to the points made - going off at a tangent where you think you can say something which YOU regard as intelligent.
You have failed. My impression is that you understand little, how ever many facts you may have noted down.
Hitchens intellect is so far ahead of yours that you have no business even thinking you can criticise him - you haven't a clue.
@GhostofHitchens You're "done with me" because you can't answer who the "referee" is regarding the basics of Marxism: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"... This is ideology that Hitchens embraced... It is the foundation of Marxism.. You said I was "naive" regarding Marxism... Answer this question.. Who decides? Who is appointed to be the one responsible for redistributing wealth?
@imax1971 You've abandoned replying about your main deal, which had to do with God, not Marx or Hitchens, but OK -- go do some research about Hitchens and his view of Marx (and Lenin, and Trotsky) and see what an evolution it was in his mind. You oversimplify with the phrase you cite, but then Christianity runs on reductionist slogans for most of you, that you only keep repeating without unpacking, so that is how you are used to thinking. But first go yell I've insulted you again.
@manthasagittarius1 Stop with this "evolution it was in his mind" nonsense.. He was a self proclaimed Marxist. There is no arguing that point.. "You oversimplify with the phrase you cite". Really? The phrase I sight is the foundation of Marxist ideology! Seeing that ghostofhitchens couldn't answer the question, I'll let you give it a try:
Marx: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
@imax1971 I was going to tag in on a rational discussion about Marxism with you. Then I realised that you believe in a talking snake, and a zombie-man who dies then lives again but is actually an omnipotent magical sky fairy who made the talking snake and impregnated his mother by magic to make himself. Amongst a thousand other bat-shit crazy things. You lose all intellectual credibility to me right there.
@danmunners You guys look up to Hitchens as the all knowing wizard of smart. He was a Marxist...You chose not to have a "rational discussion about Marxism" because there is no rational argument for it, not because I "lost intellectual credibility with you". Marxism only works in the minds of "intellectuals" like Hitchens. It is a flawed ideology and will always lead to human suffering and oppression. The answer to my question above is the reason why it is flawed. History proves it.
@imax1971 You could make the same case for Democracy and Capitalism. The problem in my mind is not the Marxism or the Capitalism or the Democracy but the way they are implemented due to our human instincts and tendencies. But like I said, you believe in the talking snake, you get no intellectual respect from me.
@danmunners The last thing I need or desire is to gain respect from you. Don't flatter yourself.
Sorry, the same thing cannot be said for democracy..
"but the way they are implemented due to our human instincts and tendencies." I thought you were the intellectually superior one here? You just made my point as to why Marxism is a flawed ideology. Any ideology that cannot be implemented and sustain the integrity of it's design because of human nature is flawed.
Yes, we look up to Hitchens - he had a brilliant mind, was hugely literate, could reason with a clarity that makes you look like homo erectus.
Whereas YOU - you look up to the fictional delusion of a cosmic tyrant who is supposed to have fathered himself so that he could be killed (a bit) then come back as a zombie.
I think history proves that you have lost touch with reality.
So bloody WHAT if Marxism is flawed? It ain't half as insane as religion.
@BlackBartlemy "So bloody WHAT if Marxism is flawed?"... Clearly you acknowledge that Marxism was flawed. Thank you! It lead to unimaginable human suffering because when implemented, human nature ran it's course. History proves this.. With history against him, Hitchens still embraced the Ideology... That makes him a fool, not the brilliant man you think he was... As a side note, he also supported the war in Iraq... He was wrong in this regard as well. Brilliant? I don't think so.
@imax1971 Typical of the god-botherer's mind .... sees all sorts of shit where there ain't any.
I said 'so what' - ie it doesn't matter whether it is or it isn't. Makes NO-O-O difference at all. If you had the brains of a louse, you would understand that there's a world of difference between Marxism and what evil bastards did in its name. Fact you can't see that shows your retardedness.
The reason YOU can't understand Hitchens is that you're not clever enough. Monkey criticises Einstein. Pfft.
@BlackBartlemy "there's a world of difference between Marxism and what evil bastards did in its name.".. I agree with that statement! However, the fundamental ideology of Marxism is a state controlled society. There is the problem. It is flawed and can never be implemented without leading to what history has shown it leads to. It only works in the mind of "intellectuals"... The "evidence" can be found in every history textbook.. You can insult me, but you can't change facts..
@imax1971 Yes, you give plenty of fertile material to generate insults.
You're still not seeing the point, and I've only got so much patience, so I'm going to allow you to wallow in your own ignorance. It's like arguing with a kid in the playground who can only manage 'nyah nyah nyah'.
Go have a conversation with your invisible friend - although I bet that even a non-existent cosmic tyrant would get fed up with your droning.
@BlackBartlemy What is your point then?... You claim Hitchens is brilliant. I am simply pointing out that it is not brilliant to be a proponent of an ideology that could never be implemented without leading to an oppressive regime or dictator.. How is that "wallowing in ignorance"?
He was also completely wrong regarding the Iraq war. You conveniently didn't address that statement..
@imax1971 I'm done with you because you are vain, dishonest, self-important know-all who actually knows fuck-all.
This marks the end of our correspondence. Don't waste your breath further; you will be wasting your time - I will delete the notifcation email before it is read and I will not be returning to this thread.
@GhostofHitchens "My kind"? I ask simple questions regarding your hero's Ideology and you refuse to answer them... I'll answer my "referee" question for you. The referee would be a man! This man is a dictator... That is what Marxism leads to... Dictatorships! No freedom and poverty.. That is the end result of "naive" intellectuals like Hitchens that embrace Marxism.... History tells us this not me...
@imax1971 Well, you ARE a patronising little fellow, aren't you? And with so little behind it.
If you believe what you have written - and I think a lot of it is artifice - then as well as patronising, you would have to be extremely stupid - it will be clear to most what you are. I hope you're not kidding yourself that we are fooled by your play-acting.
So stop trying to annoy - you're failing and only generating contempt and a shade of pity.
@GhostofHitchens Friend, you have consistently attacked not only my intellect but the intellect of over a billion people of faith.. The things you have wrote about Christian beliefs is deeply, deeply insulting.
BTW, Hitchens was a self proclaimed Marxist. Marxist ideology lead to great things, didn't it? History has proved what Marxism leads to. Not a pretty picture... Hitchens wasn't as bright as you think he was. He embraced a flawed ideology.. Don't believe what he says..
@imax1971 You are running on labels, which is about as deep as the understanding of your type usually goes. He had Marxist leanings in his youth, but by the time he hit his stride he knew there was no political or ideological system consistently applied enough to get and keep his loyalty. He was also strong enough in his resolve to get into the middle of the issues, as best he saw them, to go without consistent affiliation. Most of us don't have the brains or the balls for that.
@manthasagittarius1 "He had Marxist leanings in his youth"... Really? In his youth?
In 2006 during a debate with Martin Amis, Hitchens at the youthful age of 56 said the following regarding his political philosophy: "I am no longer a socialist, but I still am a Marxist"
You don't even know the man that you look up to.. Sad....
@imax1971 Again you condescend.You are not "sad," but self-righteously pleased.
I reiterate: "by the time he hit his stride he knew there was no political or ideological system consistently applied enough to get and keep his loyalty." Your reading of Marxism, a patchy history of botched applications, is not what he referred to, and Soviet-style Marxism was not his preference. You like being equated with the Christians of the inquisition? Witch burners? It's all under the same word, no?
@manthasagittarius1 You said "He had Marxist leanings in his youth" I pointed out he was a self proclaimed Marxist at the age of 56.. You were wrong...What's with the "time he hit his stride" nonsense?
"Soviet-style Marxism was not his preference"... Really?? He publicly expressed admiration of Lenin and Trotsky throughout his entire adult life.. What are you talking about????
@imax1971 When were those two men dead? And what followed? You want to paint CH as a practicing sympathizer of some communist political system, as it was on the hoof, coming forward into the latter 20th century and he simply was not. To ask again about the obvious analogue on the table -- do you follow or even admire the basically socialist model of the early Christian church from the first century? If you did, would that make you a pointlessly academic practitioner of those tenets?
@manthasagittarius1 We are wasting our time with this idiot. Like most of his kind, once his argument start to disintegrate, he starts waffling on about something tangential to take the attention away from the utter failure of his delusional religion.
Just dump him. He's not half as clever as he's trying to paint himself.
@marcos20alves yeh true. they even used to adopt passages of the bible to excuse slavery, & to interpret a conclusion that blacks are "cursed people" from the person called ham or something. this was also used to ease the conscience of whites at the time. the bible was also used to interpret excuses for causing pogroms of jew, berber, kurd, bahai & zoroastrian victims, to name but a few.
@timchilli Get over yourself! Christopher Hitchens would think your a moron for making such an ignorant comment... I wonder how stupid you would look debating with the late great man.
"does the saying "IN GOD WE TRUST" mean secularism to you?? does 83% of americans who believe in the Christian God in the republic concur with secularism? "
In god we trust was adopted in the 1950s during the Red Scare. Prior to that, it was e pluribus umum. 83% of americans being christian is an argument ad populem.
Please learn your history. The reason our republic was founded was largely in part to the rejection of state sanctioned religion, which was what they had in England.
So many wasted words. It's sad that someone of such intelligence had to waste so much time debating religion, which shouldn't even be present in our vocabulary at this day and age.
"the framers during the drafting of the constitutions had in mind that there was not to be a favored denomination in christianity but left the doors open for religous freedom of choice"
Then they could have simply stated 'god' and 'jesus' in the constitution and left out any favoritism for any denomination. But they did not do that. They completed omitted any reference to jesus or even god. Notice they said 'creator'.
Seems a lot more like secular thinking than any christian 'foundation'.
@Diomedes01 if your argument is that the framers implied more of a secular constitution why didnt they clearly draft religous choice is a right but the united states of america withholds any belief on any religious views? why do all individual state oaths to the allegience of the U.S constituion have references to God??? i conclude that having a constitution that doesnt align with a certain denomination of christianity doesnt merit U.S as a atheist state.
@6gunwalker The US isn't an atheist state. Who exaclty is implying that?
The USA is a secular republic. Where freedom of religion is recognized but no single religion is endorsed at the state or federal level.
What is so hard about that concept for christians to grasp?
The problem is, any inference to beliefs OTHER than yours upsets you and you go on the defensive. No one is infringing on your right to believe. It's you and your ilk that is always attempting to impose your views.
@Diomedes01 who exactly is implying the US constitution is an atheist state??? hitchens is implying it on the video above^^^^^^. and USA a secular republic????? lol where do you draw that conclusion from??? does the saying "IN GOD WE TRUST" mean secularism to you?? does 83% of americans who believe in the Christian God in the republic concur with secularism?
@6gunwalker Can you possibly be serious for one second and imply that the founders were in any way religiously or theologically biased in their authorship? First of all, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were both atheists, agreed upon by most historical scholars of note. Second, keeping with the founders, Jefferson and James Madison, before they penned the Constitution wrote...what? The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom!
@6gunwalker THAT is a religious state. Don't you dare compare the United States, the first nation to ever have a Constitution specifically barring separation of church and state, with medieval barbarism of that kind. You should be ashamed of yourself for even implying it.
@6gunwalker A document requiring that state and church be separate! You think it's a Christian nation? You don't know what you're talking about! On the subject of percentages: does that make the government legislate any differently, even a little bit? Of course not! Any such idea would be repudiated, sir, as a violation of the Constitution. You want a real religious country? Pay a visit to Afghanistan, where apostasy is punishable by death as a tenant of their Sharia-influenced constitution.
lol i laugh at atheists who try and claim something that didnt even mention secular lol the framers during the drafting of the constitutions had in mind that there was not to be a favored denomination in christianity but left the doors open for religous freedom of choice.. they had learnt from mother England and its subjective Anglican teachings so they kept this fairly intrenched in its considerations.. atheists need to be grateful for americas christian foundations.
The black guy, whomever he was, was a condescending, conceited, arrogant ninny, just like so many Christians are today. He is insisting that the pilgrims were the founding fathers? I am not even American but I know the difference between the pilgrims and the founding fathers and I also know that Jefferson and Franklin were NOT Christians, the same as it is historical FACT that Jefferson enjoyed a 'pipefull of hemp' to relax with after supper. That's marijuana to you Christians who may not know.
@MangaNeoLeo Because Black people in America can't seem to shed the last shackle of their slavery/captivity. And it is the most insidious of all the remnants. The thing holding MOST Black people in America isn't White people, per se, it's their religion aka the very thing that was directly inherited from their captors. How fucking droll is that bullshit?
@skateposeur12 Ditto. But as my father once told me. "Some people have to be who they are for the rest of their lives and there is no punishment you could ever impart to compete with that."
@paleflarelight "It is impossible to read Elizabethan history [i.e., the history surrounding Queen Elizabeth I of England; queen: 1558-1603] except in the context of an army of Jesuits, masters of deceit, treachery, treason, infiltration, subversion, assassination, insurrection, civil war and coercion, plotting for the good of the papacy, and the defeat of all the Pope's foes anywhere in the world." (1987)
@paleflarelight "Above all I have learned from the Jesuits. And so did Lenin too, as far as I recall. The world has never known anything quite so splendid as the hierarchical structure of the [Roman] Catholic Church. There were quite a few things I simply appropriated from the Jesuits for the use of the [Nazi] Party.
@paleflarelight "Today they [i.e., the Jesuits] are stronger in the United States than they ever were in any of the countries of Europe which expelled them as a menace to the government." (1912)
@paleflarelight "The Jesuits...are simply the Romish army for the earthly sovereignty of the world in the future, with the Pontiff of Rome for emperor...that's their ideal. ...It is simple lust of power, of filthy earthly gain, of domination -- something like a universal serfdom with them [i.e., the Jesuits] as masters -- that's all they stand for. They don't even believe in God perhaps."
Fyodor Dostoyevsky (1821-1881; famous Russian novelist)
@paleflarelight "no, no! u don't need to follow me, u don't need to follow anybody! u are all individuals!" .. [they say in unison] "yes! we are all individuals!". "u can all learn to think for yourselves!" [in unison] "yes! we can all think for ourselves!"
@ScoutWanderer "Though Hitchens retained his British citizenship, he became a United States citizen on the steps of the Jefferson Memorial on 13 April 2007, his 58th birthday." ...
@sleep1 Noooo, really he naturalized? Oh my god how did you figure that out. Once a brit always a brit. The nation-state he was born and raised in gave him the accent and attitude he carries. That was the root of my first comment. I thought you could figure that out. I'm sorry i thought you were bright enough to understand that. Apparently everything is exactly as it reads. Reading is good, but ,reading between the lines is better.
is it weird to anyone else watching to see an african american defending the belief system which was used to rationalize bringing his ancestors to America, and then forced upon them?
@SC1337 they're not human in the same sense as whites are, at least in culture. The instance of rape, incest and murder in black communities is 20 fold. I think the word nigger is almost a compliment, it should be stupid nigger instead.
I like the way the brother on the left just laughs under his breath when confronted with inconvenient facts about the irreligiosity of the founding fathers. I guess that's so all the equally unenlightened fools watching at home will get the false impression that Hitchens is some delusional nutcase.
And I hate when they resort to simply chuckling at refutations of their argument, as if injecting humor into the debate somehow makes their claim more poignant.
As CH indicated, there is absolute NO mention of Christianity or Jesus in any document that indicates it is the religion of the state. And furthermore, we have copious documents (Treaty of Tripoli) that outright refute that claim.
And by the way, exactly WHICH Christian denomination is the 'official' one for the USA?
While the guy on the left smiles, I'm sure he is thinking "Of fuck, what kind of a mess did I get myself into. No one told me my opponent would actually know his history."
"If you don't know that, you don't know anything." Epic.
jbetancourt11 2 days ago 2
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Only a REAL FOOL would claim there is no God! Man creates awesome skyscrapers, fake hearts, tunnels, vehicles etc.. If we are very imperfect then what more can God create THE UNIVERSE! You must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to receive eternal rest in heaven! Simple! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! Repent & accept Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ or HELL?!? Visit cbn. com
tigersforchrist 2 days ago
They just laugh when they know they can't argue for their garbage talk
opTreadstone 3 days ago
I love how the Christian just laughs and stutters...Hitchens brings the heat!
KatieTaylor24 3 days ago
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Only a REAL FOOL would claim there is no God! Man creates awesome skyscrapers, fake hearts, tunnels, vehicles etc.. If we are very imperfect then what more can God create THE UNIVERSE! You must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to receive eternal rest in heaven! Simple! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! Repent & accept Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ or HELL?!? Visit cbn. com
tigersforchrist 4 days ago
i'm guessing he knows nothing. if only he knew it.
MrTonyInchpractice 1 week ago
"The founders and the prigrims . . . " Jefferson and Franklin, and the Puritans, a hundred and fifty years apart, and a galaxy away from each other mentally and philosophically, just lumped together like a bunch of tedious prehistoric white folks. It hardly matters that the grinning smugbutt can't even pronounce "pilgrims" -- that 's the tip of the ignorance iceberg.
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@SC1337 I don't like censorship, but there has to come a point when we don't allow the dregs of society to have the oxygen of a platform. Can you not prevent the odious onebadgs400 from posting?
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens he's blocked now
SC1337 1 week ago
@SC1337 Thank you, citizen - noble action.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@onebadgs400 ... we can take it that you will be dead within hours, then .... it will be no loss to the human race.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens And so will hitchens. He was nothing special.
onebadgs400 1 week ago
@onebadgs400 The opinion of someone who advertises his stupidity, as clearly as do you, is scarcely indicative of anything significant.
What a crass statement - a denial of obvious truth.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."
"Lighthouses are more helpful then churches."
Franklyn, B. Franklyn's Autobiography. New York: Rinehart and Co., Inc., 1959, 292.
karloshaman 1 week ago
Fundies and the religious love to let out obnoxious, condescending laughter when reasonable people speak.
SigurdHeathen 1 week ago
@onebadgs400 more like 40 years of smoking and drinking.
SC1337 1 week ago
ok christians next time your seriously injured lay there and pray and see what happens? nothing- the rest of us will go to the hospital and be helped by ordinary humans who atleast will give us a fighting chance to live or be healed! Reminds me of all the stupid people who let their children die trying to pray away the cancer instead of getting chemo and proper" secular "treatment
salvadory 1 week ago
Hitch slap once more!
lewisbreland 1 week ago
He want's to come over as noble by declaring to defend anyone's right to be theologically wrong, but doesn't seem to grasp the fact that he's actually talking about himself in this particular case. His condescending laugh shows just how noble of a character he really is. The beautiful thing about the Hitchslap is that it hits glass-wearing faces as well :-)
Craplatte 2 weeks ago
I like al sharpton's laugh
ramatirthadasa 3 weeks ago
The Bible says you should stone your children TO DEATH for disobedience. How the hell is that even remotely moral?
xGimpyx 3 weeks ago
@xGimpyx Yep - and I have to ask: who the fuck, with any intelligence whatever, takes any notice of the corrupt and nasty bible, written as most of it was, by ignorant, desert-dwelling Bronze Age goatherds?
Sometimes the hardest thing to understand is the most obvious.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
The Black Preacher smiles nervously, knowing full well he's got no chance in Heaven nor hell!
mfot2 3 weeks ago 2
Its amusing to watch a man whose ethnic group was slavered by Christians, defending the very religion that once said black people belonged to an inferior stratus. If I were black the last religion in the world I d support should be Christianity
marcos20alves 3 weeks ago 33
@marcos20alves exactly. How would that guy feel to be 3/5ths of a person?
arana001 3 weeks ago
@marcos20alves Excellent comment
Pwnage1982 3 weeks ago
@marcos20alves Trust me, being a black atheist/nonbeliever is one of the hardest things in the world haha.
PopMami 1 week ago
@marcos20alves Further than that, so-called christianity said that african people weren't even human!
Religion, all things considered, is EVIL.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens Where did you get that Christians don't consider Africans human?
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 you should note that I used the past tense. Study the history of slavery; half-breeds were referred to a part-human. Christian anthropologists tried to show africans as a different species.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens Don't follow down the Same road as Mr. Hitchens. That will get you nowhere. His behavior while alive had no positivity to it at all... Follow the light of Christ. He, along with the Church will lead you in the right direction.. Oh, speaking of Africans, my parish as well as surrounding parish's are raising money for "Neduora & Shepherds" to support building a water well in Nigeria... You're right, religion is so evil!... Feel free to donate...
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 Try not to be so dense. I note you ignore my points.
One more time - 'past tense'
Your sarcasm is witless, pointless, ineffective. It indicates a low intellectual level.
Your christ does not exist, he may never have existed - very little reliable historical evidence - and the church is a last bastion of primitive superstition in a world which is rapidly leaving it behind. Your smug and complacent reference to 'charitable' work is incomplete thinking. Religion is WRONG. Untruthful.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens So I guess you aren't going to participate in the efforts my parish is making to help some Nigerians to have clean drinking water... Donating just a dollar would help.. I guess you are too busy acting intellectually superior to people you don't know takes precedence over helping the less fortunate. Once the project is funded and the well is built, I wonder if those it directly impacts would be of the opinion that "charitable work is incomplete thinking"...
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 Now who's being superior?
"I'm doing charitable work, so I'm a good person".
Life is never as simple as that, nor is helping africans as simple as giving them a well. If you had any real idea of world affairs, you might understand, but I doubt that you ever will, like many of your countrymen, who aren't even sure where Africa is.
In your case, I don't need to 'act' superior. It's beyond my control.
Smug little bastard.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@imax1971 A small postscript for you - 'christian' religion spreads AIDS & death throughout africa by preaching that condoms are sinful. THERE's evil for you .... it may not be your lot who do it (mostly it's the damned Catholics) but the world would be better off without any of you.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens "'christian' religion spreads AIDS & death throughout africa by preaching that condoms are sinful. THERE's evil for you"....... Now that comment is as sophomoric, and quite frankly, idiotic as they come. I can't correspond with a person that has such deranged opinions. Sorry.
Like I said before, look for the light of Christ. He will lead you down the right path. I really wish you the best.. I really do... Peace, friend..
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 It is neither sophomoric nor idiotic. It is a documented directive spread by ignorant African clergy, and your calling it idiotic does not make it so. You have a large opinion of the powers of your own speech. Furthermore, you can't call someone idiotic in one breath and then wish them light and peace in the next. That really is deranged -- or fragmented in some vital function of consciousness. Actually that's what the delusion of faith requires: hard separation of mental realities.
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@manthasagittarius1 Thank you for your very concise & clear reply to our delusional friend. Neatly put.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@manthasagittarius1 Sorry, the comment was sophomoric and idiotic. How am I "deranged" to point out that a comment is idiotic then wish someone peace in closing??? Is a guidance counselor that points out a troubled kids idiotic behavior "deranged" for wishing the kid all the best in life?
Like I said to the other guy, don't follow the same path as Hitchens... It will lead you nowhere.. Peace be with you..
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 Now on top of being wrong about the condoms in Africa issue -- and you are just wrong about it -- you're condescending, to liken yourself to a (patient and so forbearing, right?) guidance counselor who points out the error of a young person's perceptions and then wishes him well. You're not standing anywhere so high to look down on anyone from, you see. Chronic mental peace may not be the best thing to wish on a thinker anyway. It's only complacency -- yours is quite smug.
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
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GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
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@imax1971 You have already been comprehensively corrected by manthasagittarius1, who has neatly exposed your misguided thinking, so I'll go easy on you.
Try to understand that your 'light of christ' is a fantasy - wish-thinking. You might as well follow Santa's sleigh-bells. Join us in the world of reality; it's a much more interesting place.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens He "corrected" me? His comment was as sophomoric as yours... In my response back to him, I pointed out why..
"so I'll go easy on you"... You'll go easy on me? Don't you realize that I feel sorry for you? You are headed down the same road has Hitchens. He lived a life of negativity and hate.
I wish you all the best... Don't forget to donate to the well project... Peace..
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 You insult and condescend, you profess pity, and then you wish peace. You know something? You don't have the courage of your presumed superiority. Just be rude and arrogant and let it stand, then take your lumps. Don't hide behind pax vobiscum as a rearguard shield over your smug butt on your way out of a hostile message. No one is fooled. Someone like you wishing someone else peace is an essential untruth.
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@manthasagittarius1 I'm not hiding behind pax vobiscum... I truly wish peace for all people... Even those I may disagree with...
You have the audacity to hypocritically write "You insult and condescend" when in your first comment to me you wrote "hard separation of mental realities" regarding my Christian faith! That not only is an insult towards me, but towards over a billion people... Look in the mirror before casting judgement on others...
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 Well -- we've finally cut through the treacle, haven't we? It is about hard separation of mental realities, and the entire argument about whether the belief system you preach has anything real to offer that the believer himself does not supply on his own. Condescension cuts both ways. You still pretend not to know how your glib wishes annoy. Saul of Tarsus did (Romans12:20) -- I do not believe his intentions were loftier than getting even, and I don't trust yours either.
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@imax1971 First, this is a rough game, so don't holler tit for tat "you did me first". I don't recognize that ploy as valid. Second, I don't accept the appeal to the perceived majority: I don't care how many people hold your views, or might be insulted by mine. Belief systems are notorious for being very widely held by hordes of the uncritical. Third -- speaking of hard mental realities does not insult as your infantilizing comparisons and epithets do -- "idiotic, sophomoric."
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@imax1971 YES, imax, I have audacity. A pale reflection of the audacity he had manning the breach, but I really think no less than his disgust at bullshit.
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@manthasagittarius1 Rom 12:20?? I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that you have never even picked up a Bible.. Be honest with yourself. You haven't. Have you? Your transparent Atheist talking points are as sophomoric as they come...
You have gotten angry. Why? I sincerely wished you the best in life. You clearly have a void in your life. I honestly hope that one day you fill that void... I really do... Peace, friend.
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 If you like to throw paychecks away, give the one you owe me to a service that provides condoms to impoverished African women. I have far more than a passing familiarity with the bible, and my reference is apt. Do you hold some naive assumption that if I really knew the bible, I could not resist its message? Don't diagnose without expertise either -- "I wish you well, but YOU must have a void." Face it: it's simply you who are the irritant in the context of this exchange.
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@manthasagittarius1 Yes, I think if you read any of the Gospels you couldn't resist the message.. If you do read them and still resist because of your predisposition that they are some how false, then Mr. Hitchens and the like did their job well..
imax1971 1 week ago
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@imax1971 "I think if you read any of the Gospels you couldn't resist the message" -
Have the grace not to credit us with your own gullibility. We assume that they are false because there is NO evidence that they are anything else.
Why on earth would you believe the contents of a book written more than 1800 years ago by people who believed not only their own brand of nonsense, but also witchcraft and evil spirits? It would be laughable, but for the tragedy of it all.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@imax1971 Well, you're wrong again, and I'm really a latecomer to Hitchens, so you're wrong about that too. I had it figured out by my teens, after a long childhood of unusually concentrated church participation and study. For some of us, critical thinking works on unfounded convictions quite organically over time, from the inside. We don't need to be yanked out of one belief and into another, the way you pull a sheep on a rope. Think what you like -- and be wrong. Narrow and wrong.
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
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@imax1971 Friend, you have attacked your own intellect.
Friend, intellect has little to do with faith.
Faith is the willingness to accept extraordinary assertions on a no-evidence basis. It is not worthy of respect.
Christian beliefs deserve to be insulted - they are ridiculous and fly in the face of everything that is known about the real world.
Your remarks on Marxism are naiive, to say the least.
Finally, Numbers mean nothing. The opinions of a billion fools are nevertheless foolish.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens The Gospels were written by men that gave eyewitness accounts of the "extraordinary" miracles performed by Jesus Christ... The "evidence" is right in front of you. You simply don't believe it.
History tells the tale of Marxist ideology.. On paper it looks great. In practice it lead to genocide and human suffering... It is a flawed ideology and your hero embraced it... He also supported the ridiculous war in Iraq. He is not one to look up to, friend.
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 Oh dear - doomed to failure, aren't you? You seem not to know your own religion.
The earliest surving copy of the gospels dates to C4th; only fragments exist before then. None was written earlier than 65 years after the death of JC, so HTF do you know by whom they were written, when the scholars aren't sure?
The gospels are NOT evidence. They don't even agree. And if they did, no difference.
There is nothing to support their being true. Their mere existence is not proof of anything.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@imax1971 Your naiivety regarding Marxism is in that you pursue the fallacy of assuming that because evil men quoted it for evil purpose, that it must necessarily be evil in and of itself. Not so. Be logical.
Christianity has been used for evil purpose for 2000 years. It has more to answer for. Will you stand alongside the Inquisition because you are a christian? or the Borgias? Grow up, do.
You really are not qualified for this debate. I suggest you go learn some real information.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens "I suggest you go learn some real information.".. Marxist theory only works in the minds of those in academia.. You know, the "intellectuals" like Hitchens that think they know everything.. It is fundamental flawed and will always lead to Communism and oppressive dictators.. History proves this...
Marx: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"... Sounds good on the surface.. But who's the referee??? The answer is why it is flawed.
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 You really are full of yourself, aren't you? Determined to show how erudite you are, but failing every time to respond to the points made - going off at a tangent where you think you can say something which YOU regard as intelligent.
You have failed. My impression is that you understand little, how ever many facts you may have noted down.
Hitchens intellect is so far ahead of yours that you have no business even thinking you can criticise him - you haven't a clue.
I'm done with you.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens You're "done with me" because you can't answer who the "referee" is regarding the basics of Marxism: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"... This is ideology that Hitchens embraced... It is the foundation of Marxism.. You said I was "naive" regarding Marxism... Answer this question.. Who decides? Who is appointed to be the one responsible for redistributing wealth?
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 You've abandoned replying about your main deal, which had to do with God, not Marx or Hitchens, but OK -- go do some research about Hitchens and his view of Marx (and Lenin, and Trotsky) and see what an evolution it was in his mind. You oversimplify with the phrase you cite, but then Christianity runs on reductionist slogans for most of you, that you only keep repeating without unpacking, so that is how you are used to thinking. But first go yell I've insulted you again.
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
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GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@manthasagittarius1 Stop with this "evolution it was in his mind" nonsense.. He was a self proclaimed Marxist. There is no arguing that point.. "You oversimplify with the phrase you cite". Really? The phrase I sight is the foundation of Marxist ideology! Seeing that ghostofhitchens couldn't answer the question, I'll let you give it a try:
Marx: "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
Who is the referee in this scenario?
imax1971 6 days ago
@imax1971 I was going to tag in on a rational discussion about Marxism with you. Then I realised that you believe in a talking snake, and a zombie-man who dies then lives again but is actually an omnipotent magical sky fairy who made the talking snake and impregnated his mother by magic to make himself. Amongst a thousand other bat-shit crazy things. You lose all intellectual credibility to me right there.
danmunners 6 days ago
@danmunners You guys look up to Hitchens as the all knowing wizard of smart. He was a Marxist...You chose not to have a "rational discussion about Marxism" because there is no rational argument for it, not because I "lost intellectual credibility with you". Marxism only works in the minds of "intellectuals" like Hitchens. It is a flawed ideology and will always lead to human suffering and oppression. The answer to my question above is the reason why it is flawed. History proves it.
imax1971 6 days ago
@imax1971 You could make the same case for Democracy and Capitalism. The problem in my mind is not the Marxism or the Capitalism or the Democracy but the way they are implemented due to our human instincts and tendencies. But like I said, you believe in the talking snake, you get no intellectual respect from me.
danmunners 6 days ago
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@danmunners The last thing I need or desire is to gain respect from you. Don't flatter yourself.
Sorry, the same thing cannot be said for democracy..
"but the way they are implemented due to our human instincts and tendencies." I thought you were the intellectually superior one here? You just made my point as to why Marxism is a flawed ideology. Any ideology that cannot be implemented and sustain the integrity of it's design because of human nature is flawed.
.
imax1971 6 days ago
@imax1971 Dude, you talk crap.
Yes, we look up to Hitchens - he had a brilliant mind, was hugely literate, could reason with a clarity that makes you look like homo erectus.
Whereas YOU - you look up to the fictional delusion of a cosmic tyrant who is supposed to have fathered himself so that he could be killed (a bit) then come back as a zombie.
I think history proves that you have lost touch with reality.
So bloody WHAT if Marxism is flawed? It ain't half as insane as religion.
BlackBartlemy 3 days ago
@BlackBartlemy "So bloody WHAT if Marxism is flawed?"... Clearly you acknowledge that Marxism was flawed. Thank you! It lead to unimaginable human suffering because when implemented, human nature ran it's course. History proves this.. With history against him, Hitchens still embraced the Ideology... That makes him a fool, not the brilliant man you think he was... As a side note, he also supported the war in Iraq... He was wrong in this regard as well. Brilliant? I don't think so.
imax1971 3 days ago
@imax1971 Typical of the god-botherer's mind .... sees all sorts of shit where there ain't any.
I said 'so what' - ie it doesn't matter whether it is or it isn't. Makes NO-O-O difference at all. If you had the brains of a louse, you would understand that there's a world of difference between Marxism and what evil bastards did in its name. Fact you can't see that shows your retardedness.
The reason YOU can't understand Hitchens is that you're not clever enough. Monkey criticises Einstein. Pfft.
BlackBartlemy 3 days ago
@BlackBartlemy "there's a world of difference between Marxism and what evil bastards did in its name.".. I agree with that statement! However, the fundamental ideology of Marxism is a state controlled society. There is the problem. It is flawed and can never be implemented without leading to what history has shown it leads to. It only works in the mind of "intellectuals"... The "evidence" can be found in every history textbook.. You can insult me, but you can't change facts..
imax1971 3 days ago
@imax1971 Yes, you give plenty of fertile material to generate insults.
You're still not seeing the point, and I've only got so much patience, so I'm going to allow you to wallow in your own ignorance. It's like arguing with a kid in the playground who can only manage 'nyah nyah nyah'.
Go have a conversation with your invisible friend - although I bet that even a non-existent cosmic tyrant would get fed up with your droning.
BlackBartlemy 3 days ago
@BlackBartlemy What is your point then?... You claim Hitchens is brilliant. I am simply pointing out that it is not brilliant to be a proponent of an ideology that could never be implemented without leading to an oppressive regime or dictator.. How is that "wallowing in ignorance"?
He was also completely wrong regarding the Iraq war. You conveniently didn't address that statement..
imax1971 3 days ago
@imax1971 Why don't you take the job, since you are ethically so much superior to the rest of us with God on your side?
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@imax1971 I'm done with you because you are vain, dishonest, self-important know-all who actually knows fuck-all.
This marks the end of our correspondence. Don't waste your breath further; you will be wasting your time - I will delete the notifcation email before it is read and I will not be returning to this thread.
You have confirmed my view of your kind.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens "My kind"? I ask simple questions regarding your hero's Ideology and you refuse to answer them... I'll answer my "referee" question for you. The referee would be a man! This man is a dictator... That is what Marxism leads to... Dictatorships! No freedom and poverty.. That is the end result of "naive" intellectuals like Hitchens that embrace Marxism.... History tells us this not me...
imax1971 6 days ago
@GhostofHitchens You got the right idea for dealing with this guy, buddy. I checked back - he's been talking crap for a couple of weeks now ....
We should ALL stop dealing with these delusional types. They're incapable of reason - we shouldn't try .... after all, you can't polish a turd.
BlackBartlemy 3 days ago
@imax1971 Well, you ARE a patronising little fellow, aren't you? And with so little behind it.
If you believe what you have written - and I think a lot of it is artifice - then as well as patronising, you would have to be extremely stupid - it will be clear to most what you are. I hope you're not kidding yourself that we are fooled by your play-acting.
So stop trying to annoy - you're failing and only generating contempt and a shade of pity.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@GhostofHitchens Friend, you have consistently attacked not only my intellect but the intellect of over a billion people of faith.. The things you have wrote about Christian beliefs is deeply, deeply insulting.
BTW, Hitchens was a self proclaimed Marxist. Marxist ideology lead to great things, didn't it? History has proved what Marxism leads to. Not a pretty picture... Hitchens wasn't as bright as you think he was. He embraced a flawed ideology.. Don't believe what he says..
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 You are running on labels, which is about as deep as the understanding of your type usually goes. He had Marxist leanings in his youth, but by the time he hit his stride he knew there was no political or ideological system consistently applied enough to get and keep his loyalty. He was also strong enough in his resolve to get into the middle of the issues, as best he saw them, to go without consistent affiliation. Most of us don't have the brains or the balls for that.
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@manthasagittarius1 "He had Marxist leanings in his youth"... Really? In his youth?
In 2006 during a debate with Martin Amis, Hitchens at the youthful age of 56 said the following regarding his political philosophy: "I am no longer a socialist, but I still am a Marxist"
You don't even know the man that you look up to.. Sad....
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 Again you condescend.You are not "sad," but self-righteously pleased.
I reiterate: "by the time he hit his stride he knew there was no political or ideological system consistently applied enough to get and keep his loyalty." Your reading of Marxism, a patchy history of botched applications, is not what he referred to, and Soviet-style Marxism was not his preference. You like being equated with the Christians of the inquisition? Witch burners? It's all under the same word, no?
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@manthasagittarius1 You said "He had Marxist leanings in his youth" I pointed out he was a self proclaimed Marxist at the age of 56.. You were wrong...What's with the "time he hit his stride" nonsense?
"Soviet-style Marxism was not his preference"... Really?? He publicly expressed admiration of Lenin and Trotsky throughout his entire adult life.. What are you talking about????
imax1971 1 week ago
@imax1971 When were those two men dead? And what followed? You want to paint CH as a practicing sympathizer of some communist political system, as it was on the hoof, coming forward into the latter 20th century and he simply was not. To ask again about the obvious analogue on the table -- do you follow or even admire the basically socialist model of the early Christian church from the first century? If you did, would that make you a pointlessly academic practitioner of those tenets?
manthasagittarius1 1 week ago
@manthasagittarius1 We are wasting our time with this idiot. Like most of his kind, once his argument start to disintegrate, he starts waffling on about something tangential to take the attention away from the utter failure of his delusional religion.
Just dump him. He's not half as clever as he's trying to paint himself.
GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
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GhostofHitchens 1 week ago
@marcos20alves yeh true. they even used to adopt passages of the bible to excuse slavery, & to interpret a conclusion that blacks are "cursed people" from the person called ham or something. this was also used to ease the conscience of whites at the time. the bible was also used to interpret excuses for causing pogroms of jew, berber, kurd, bahai & zoroastrian victims, to name but a few.
oc00011 1 week ago
Hitch, you were a bit like a messiah to us secularists. God bless your pissed up clarity. RIP.
ellenmeilee 4 weeks ago
what a fool to have crossed verbal swords with hitchens.
rhouk 4 weeks ago 2
This black dude is fucked in the head. Can't even speak properly.
timchilli 1 month ago
@timchilli Get over yourself! Christopher Hitchens would think your a moron for making such an ignorant comment... I wonder how stupid you would look debating with the late great man.
cssius 1 month ago
@cssius You also seem to be fucked in the head.
timchilli 1 month ago
good without god.
youthank8 1 month ago
"does the saying "IN GOD WE TRUST" mean secularism to you?? does 83% of americans who believe in the Christian God in the republic concur with secularism? "
In god we trust was adopted in the 1950s during the Red Scare. Prior to that, it was e pluribus umum. 83% of americans being christian is an argument ad populem.
Please learn your history. The reason our republic was founded was largely in part to the rejection of state sanctioned religion, which was what they had in England.
Diomedes01 1 month ago 5
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westlacson1 1 month ago
So many wasted words. It's sad that someone of such intelligence had to waste so much time debating religion, which shouldn't even be present in our vocabulary at this day and age.
mimosveta 1 month ago
"the framers during the drafting of the constitutions had in mind that there was not to be a favored denomination in christianity but left the doors open for religous freedom of choice"
Then they could have simply stated 'god' and 'jesus' in the constitution and left out any favoritism for any denomination. But they did not do that. They completed omitted any reference to jesus or even god. Notice they said 'creator'.
Seems a lot more like secular thinking than any christian 'foundation'.
Diomedes01 1 month ago
@Diomedes01 if your argument is that the framers implied more of a secular constitution why didnt they clearly draft religous choice is a right but the united states of america withholds any belief on any religious views? why do all individual state oaths to the allegience of the U.S constituion have references to God??? i conclude that having a constitution that doesnt align with a certain denomination of christianity doesnt merit U.S as a atheist state.
6gunwalker 1 month ago
@6gunwalker The US isn't an atheist state. Who exaclty is implying that?
The USA is a secular republic. Where freedom of religion is recognized but no single religion is endorsed at the state or federal level.
What is so hard about that concept for christians to grasp?
The problem is, any inference to beliefs OTHER than yours upsets you and you go on the defensive. No one is infringing on your right to believe. It's you and your ilk that is always attempting to impose your views.
Diomedes01 1 month ago
@Diomedes01 who exactly is implying the US constitution is an atheist state??? hitchens is implying it on the video above^^^^^^. and USA a secular republic????? lol where do you draw that conclusion from??? does the saying "IN GOD WE TRUST" mean secularism to you?? does 83% of americans who believe in the Christian God in the republic concur with secularism?
6gunwalker 1 month ago
@6gunwalker "In God We Trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956.
Blaeh1 1 month ago 2
@6gunwalker Can you possibly be serious for one second and imply that the founders were in any way religiously or theologically biased in their authorship? First of all, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were both atheists, agreed upon by most historical scholars of note. Second, keeping with the founders, Jefferson and James Madison, before they penned the Constitution wrote...what? The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom!
westlacson1 1 month ago
@6gunwalker THAT is a religious state. Don't you dare compare the United States, the first nation to ever have a Constitution specifically barring separation of church and state, with medieval barbarism of that kind. You should be ashamed of yourself for even implying it.
westlacson1 1 month ago
@6gunwalker A document requiring that state and church be separate! You think it's a Christian nation? You don't know what you're talking about! On the subject of percentages: does that make the government legislate any differently, even a little bit? Of course not! Any such idea would be repudiated, sir, as a violation of the Constitution. You want a real religious country? Pay a visit to Afghanistan, where apostasy is punishable by death as a tenant of their Sharia-influenced constitution.
westlacson1 1 month ago
lol i laugh at atheists who try and claim something that didnt even mention secular lol the framers during the drafting of the constitutions had in mind that there was not to be a favored denomination in christianity but left the doors open for religous freedom of choice.. they had learnt from mother England and its subjective Anglican teachings so they kept this fairly intrenched in its considerations.. atheists need to be grateful for americas christian foundations.
6gunwalker 1 month ago
@6gunwalker just like AFRICANS?..NATIVE indians?..and whole lot more?
Christian and islam have walked the EXACT SAME PATH.
OneDharmaYouMovement 1 month ago
The black guy, whomever he was, was a condescending, conceited, arrogant ninny, just like so many Christians are today. He is insisting that the pilgrims were the founding fathers? I am not even American but I know the difference between the pilgrims and the founding fathers and I also know that Jefferson and Franklin were NOT Christians, the same as it is historical FACT that Jefferson enjoyed a 'pipefull of hemp' to relax with after supper. That's marijuana to you Christians who may not know.
zideffil 1 month ago
Hate to be racist, but why the fuck are blacks 9/10 religious, ignorant idiots?
MangaNeoLeo 1 month ago
@MangaNeoLeo Because Black people in America can't seem to shed the last shackle of their slavery/captivity. And it is the most insidious of all the remnants. The thing holding MOST Black people in America isn't White people, per se, it's their religion aka the very thing that was directly inherited from their captors. How fucking droll is that bullshit?
godfreewoman 1 month ago
I want to smack the idiotic grin off that guy's face.
skateposeur12 1 month ago
@skateposeur12 Ditto. But as my father once told me. "Some people have to be who they are for the rest of their lives and there is no punishment you could ever impart to compete with that."
godfreewoman 1 month ago
if you dont know that, you dont know anything lol r.i.p
braindeadart 1 month ago
I can't stand when people just giggle whenever someone else speaks. Pathetic and juvenile.
PoliticalGumbo 1 month ago
Everybody, repeat after Hitch: The United States of America's founding documents are secular. If you don't know that, you don't know anything
paleflarelight 1 month ago 54
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@paleflarelight "It is impossible to read Elizabethan history [i.e., the history surrounding Queen Elizabeth I of England; queen: 1558-1603] except in the context of an army of Jesuits, masters of deceit, treachery, treason, infiltration, subversion, assassination, insurrection, civil war and coercion, plotting for the good of the papacy, and the defeat of all the Pope's foes anywhere in the world." (1987)
J.E.C. Shepherd (Canadian historian)
augustmaquet 2 weeks ago
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@paleflarelight "Above all I have learned from the Jesuits. And so did Lenin too, as far as I recall. The world has never known anything quite so splendid as the hierarchical structure of the [Roman] Catholic Church. There were quite a few things I simply appropriated from the Jesuits for the use of the [Nazi] Party.
Adolph Hitler
augustmaquet 2 weeks ago
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@paleflarelight "Today they [i.e., the Jesuits] are stronger in the United States than they ever were in any of the countries of Europe which expelled them as a menace to the government." (1912)
Jeremiah J. Crowley
augustmaquet 2 weeks ago
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@paleflarelight "The Jesuits...are simply the Romish army for the earthly sovereignty of the world in the future, with the Pontiff of Rome for emperor...that's their ideal. ...It is simple lust of power, of filthy earthly gain, of domination -- something like a universal serfdom with them [i.e., the Jesuits] as masters -- that's all they stand for. They don't even believe in God perhaps."
Fyodor Dostoyevsky (1821-1881; famous Russian novelist)
augustmaquet 2 weeks ago
@paleflarelight "no, no! u don't need to follow me, u don't need to follow anybody! u are all individuals!" .. [they say in unison] "yes! we are all individuals!". "u can all learn to think for yourselves!" [in unison] "yes! we can all think for ourselves!"
- 'life of brian'
i hope u get the relevance.
oc00011 1 week ago
Why are black people always among the most rabidly christian?
Their religious roots follow a totally different path.
They only became christians when white men said to them "give up your own silly, ridiculous beliefs and follow our silly, ridiculous beliefs instead.
Religion is (at best) a man made nonesense and (at worse) a corrupt evil.
It should be against the law to teach this trash to the under 18s.
duckgeezer 1 month ago 2
Christian Logic: God is real because the bible says he is. The bible is true because the bible says its true.
GRiiMaCe360 1 month ago
noticed how the guy is smiling whenever Hitch is talking, regardless of what he is actually saying? He's not listening at all.
DeinosDinos 1 month ago
Rest in Christopher! you will always be remembered
Bluelincolnpark 1 month ago
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was that you best cris hitch impressing? do you have an original thought pattern? sound an awful lot like a blathering brit. Do try harder
ScoutWanderer 1 month ago
@ScoutWanderer what? lol
SC1337 1 month ago 8
@ScoutWanderer Actually he is an American... and a DAMN good one at that!!!!
sleep1 1 month ago
@sleep1 I what a thick american accent he has. why do i waste my time on dimwits
ScoutWanderer 1 month ago
@ScoutWanderer "Though Hitchens retained his British citizenship, he became a United States citizen on the steps of the Jefferson Memorial on 13 April 2007, his 58th birthday." ...
Reading is gooooooood ... dimwit =)
sleep1 1 month ago
@sleep1 Noooo, really he naturalized? Oh my god how did you figure that out. Once a brit always a brit. The nation-state he was born and raised in gave him the accent and attitude he carries. That was the root of my first comment. I thought you could figure that out. I'm sorry i thought you were bright enough to understand that. Apparently everything is exactly as it reads. Reading is good, but ,reading between the lines is better.
ScoutWanderer 1 month ago
laugh all you want! You just got butt f*cked on live TV
wealthmaster71 1 month ago
is it weird to anyone else watching to see an african american defending the belief system which was used to rationalize bringing his ancestors to America, and then forced upon them?
YungStarGS 2 months ago 7
@YungStarGS exactly what I was thinking.
joaniebonymaronie 1 month ago
kind of sad an english man knows more about american history. guess keeping people stupid will keep religon going it shows in this.
gojoewhite1234 2 months ago 3
I you don't know that, you don't know anything!
TheBomber15 2 months ago
More proof that niggers are dumb!
MrWhiteisbetter 2 months ago
@MrWhiteisbetter i know and most blacks are religious..explains many of their behaviors
Omnipherant 2 months ago
@MrWhiteisbetter Eat a dick faggot!!
onebadgs400 1 month ago
Les be forfrite.
MazMedias 2 months ago
Hitch is a Jesus of ateism
KupaMaster 2 months ago
@KupaMaster he's so much better :)
MrWaddefak 2 months ago
this family research guy knows nothing. Hitchens FTW
TheDravidianwolf 2 months ago
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is niggers confidence is inappropriate and offensive
orbital92hotmail 2 months ago
@orbital92hotmail the word ''nigger'' is inappropriate and offensive to describe another human being.
SC1337 2 months ago 41
@SC1337 well there not quiet human (at least in culture) and its the best word I can think of.
orbital92hotmail 2 months ago
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bladesaint21 2 months ago
@SC1337 Yes, black is much simpler to use!
Sniiigel 2 months ago
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@SC1337 was that you best cris hitch impressing? do you have an original thought pattern? sound an awful lot like a blathering brit. Do try harder.
ScoutWanderer 1 month ago
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raydredX 1 month ago
@SC1337 they're not human in the same sense as whites are, at least in culture. The instance of rape, incest and murder in black communities is 20 fold. I think the word nigger is almost a compliment, it should be stupid nigger instead.
orbital92hotmail 1 month ago
@orbital92hotmail Knuckle dragger.
TomVodkaCollins 1 month ago in playlist More videos from SC1337
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bladesaint21 2 months ago
@bladesaint21 I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to people who are proud of their white heritage.
orbital92hotmail 2 months ago
@orbital92hotmail you can be proud to be white and not be racist
SC1337 2 months ago
@SC1337 you'd be accused of as much if you ever said it out loud.
orbital92hotmail 2 months ago
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bladesaint21 2 months ago
@orbital92hotmail Wow.tell your mom you are special.people are responding to your words
ScoutWanderer 1 month ago
@ScoutWanderer all moms think their children are special. Its best you run along and join a conversation where you can keep up.
orbital92hotmail 1 month ago
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orbital92hotmail 2 months ago
"come on, Christopher, you know it and I know it". If you keep looking the other way, facts disappear!
sargea1 2 months ago
I like the way the brother on the left just laughs under his breath when confronted with inconvenient facts about the irreligiosity of the founding fathers. I guess that's so all the equally unenlightened fools watching at home will get the false impression that Hitchens is some delusional nutcase.
sargea1 2 months ago
That guy is a tool.
And I hate when they resort to simply chuckling at refutations of their argument, as if injecting humor into the debate somehow makes their claim more poignant.
As CH indicated, there is absolute NO mention of Christianity or Jesus in any document that indicates it is the religion of the state. And furthermore, we have copious documents (Treaty of Tripoli) that outright refute that claim.
And by the way, exactly WHICH Christian denomination is the 'official' one for the USA?
Diomedes01 2 months ago
While the guy on the left smiles, I'm sure he is thinking "Of fuck, what kind of a mess did I get myself into. No one told me my opponent would actually know his history."
boscoblack 2 months ago