the red jacket guy is excellent and also the last one. the others are sliding on the tails. there is one (0:37- 0:48) who is clearly sitting too far back.
the red jacket guy is excellent and also the last one. the others are sliding on the tails. there is one (0:37- 0:48) is clearly sitting too far back.
No actually those are very good slalom turns. You need to sit back in order to generate power for the turn exit. All professional racers do this. In order for the skis to grip and turn sharp you need to release front pressure by rocking back and then forward again. All levels of skiing should have some fore aft but you will see this more clearly from pro racers. In this case and in many it will look like they are just sitting back.
Interesting conversation. I'm quite happy this video has caused so much debate!
Just a point for clarification, carving is not the intention of these skiers and WC racing is only a part of the model. The clips of racing are present only to show one end of the spectrum. The purpose of this video is for PSIA-RM level 3 candidates to gain a visual understanding of the exam standard.
This is not changing the subject, it's about carving isn't it? Just clearing up the fact that it's pointless. The best carved turn is, the perfect carved turn, in the human endeavor of skiing.
@skiwhhWhen a World Cup skier lays the ski into a groove that has been made in ice by previous WC skiers, and uses the ski to edge and bank against it, the ski does not move 1mm to the side. Just as the discussion is useless, this point is also useless, but it is a ski on edge, without side ways movement. WC skiers can duplicate this turn time after turn without a skid.
@hazlitt1 If you care to look there are different standards than these around the world, this is not one I strive for. And about carving, mincing words about a few mm of drift in a carved turn doesn't amount to anything anyone cares about in skiing. They care to ski better, with the movements that create efficient skiing. 99.9% of skiers would be ecstatic to carve with a few mm of drift, what is the point? Talk about what works, movements that work, I don't see many in this discussion.
@skiwhh I'm one of the 99.9% of guys happy with a few inches out in high speed turns. Hell I'd be happy with a 90% carved turn at 50mph, 80% carve at 70mph etc. That was not what we were talking about. The conversation was about if there is any such thing as a 'perfect' carved turn. Don't change the subject.
PS Technically there is no such thing as pure carving. If your skis side slide even one millimeter or one millionth of a millimeter, it is no longer a 'Pure' carve. So carving is a relative term.
@skiwhh Speak to the international ski racers and coaches if anyone can perform a pure/100% carve before you accuse people of making excuses. Even if you see two thin lines, the thin lines will still have a small amount of slide, be it millimeters. The faster and tighter the turn the more slide you are inclined to develop. Furthermore the skis no matter how stiff they are, are still inclined to wash variables amounts at higher speeds in tighter turns. There is no such thing as a 100% carve.
@hazlitt1 I was Tommy Moe's coach and well as many other world cup skiers. The coach and director of the Austrian Team is a personal friend of mine, which one would you like me to talk to?
@skiwhh Dear skiwhh, if you look at your carving lines in the snow, you will see that the line/carve is actually wedge shaped. The wedge starts inside the turn and goes deeper into the snow at the outside of the wedge, then you have a wall of snow or ice back up to the surface. The skis turn at the deepest part of the wedge not the beginning of the wedge. The width of this wedge measured across the snow is your side slide.
@hazlitt1 So what's your point, the best skiers use a technique that leaves two thin lines. It's about how to use movements that work for the best carving technique, not about excuses for why you can't do it.
For you this is about a few millimeters, big deal, it has no bearing what-so-ever on carved turns, for me it's about how to ski correctly and use the right movements.
Respond to this video... The people in the video, I have no idea who they are; are not carving, Because they are using the wrong movements in their skiing not because there is no such thing as pure carving.
Respond to this video... The reason they are skidding, is their lack of ability to re-center for each arc and their unweighting in releasing creates an extended phase where the skis are being pushed out to the side, in other words they are in the back seat and they are steering to an edge, which doesn't create carving.
@skiwhh If your carve has no side movement/side slide at all, you would not have even one grain of snow or ice pushed up by your skis. The more the side slide the more snow is scraped up and out, and for longer.
@hazlitt1 Semantics, the best skiers can come really close to a pure carve, those that can only make runs with skidding turns, without the ability to make carving movements, therefore make excuses for why carving doesn't exist.
@skiwhh I've been a ski instructor fifteen years. I think I can carve a turn. The principle stands, carving is a relative term. There is no such thing as a pure/100% carve. There will always be an amount of side slide, be it several feet or a millimeter. Semantics I hear you say, up to an extent yes. But it gives us a better understanding of what carving is and how to carve closer to perfection, but which can never be achieved.
Absolutely right, the snow should be pluming from right below the centre of the boot. This is still not carving, pure carving does not allow you to slow/control your speed unless you traverse for a while and let the friction of the snow slow you down! In fact pure carving should accelerate you out of the turn as you are rebounding/pushing from the arc and bend of the skis.
To what extent are the skis carving versus pushing at the end of the turn in order to slow down. I would like to see carving throughout. Notice that many times it is the tail of the ski that pushes out the snow. Does this not suggest that the weight is in the rear and the rear is being used to slow down. Is this carving?
@busapp Pushing or skidding the rear of the ski before release, is a lack of control of the ski before release. This is definitely not carving. It's mostly caused by rotation and losing the counter or not actually achieving a countered relationship to hold the ski. It can also be caused by too much steering without edge control.
I ski with Jim Shaw, the guy is a world class teacher omfg
bouldertri 1 month ago
Is this what's called PSIA :):) ?
FaNRashid 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the red jacket guy is excellent and also the last one. the others are sliding on the tails. there is one (0:37- 0:48) who is clearly sitting too far back.
alegzander1971 1 year ago
the red jacket guy is excellent and also the last one. the others are sliding on the tails. there is one (0:37- 0:48) is clearly sitting too far back.
alegzander1971 1 year ago
@alegzander1971 I think they are all pretty damn good!
jimidee33 4 months ago
@alegzander1971
No actually those are very good slalom turns. You need to sit back in order to generate power for the turn exit. All professional racers do this. In order for the skis to grip and turn sharp you need to release front pressure by rocking back and then forward again. All levels of skiing should have some fore aft but you will see this more clearly from pro racers. In this case and in many it will look like they are just sitting back.
Sm0nk3y 2 weeks ago
the last dude is the man
leoj78 1 year ago
Interesting conversation. I'm quite happy this video has caused so much debate!
Just a point for clarification, carving is not the intention of these skiers and WC racing is only a part of the model. The clips of racing are present only to show one end of the spectrum. The purpose of this video is for PSIA-RM level 3 candidates to gain a visual understanding of the exam standard.
jonboylou 1 year ago
Comment removed
hazlitt1 1 year ago
This is not changing the subject, it's about carving isn't it? Just clearing up the fact that it's pointless. The best carved turn is, the perfect carved turn, in the human endeavor of skiing.
skiwhh 1 year ago
@skiwhhWhen a World Cup skier lays the ski into a groove that has been made in ice by previous WC skiers, and uses the ski to edge and bank against it, the ski does not move 1mm to the side. Just as the discussion is useless, this point is also useless, but it is a ski on edge, without side ways movement. WC skiers can duplicate this turn time after turn without a skid.
skiwhh 1 year ago
Comment removed
hazlitt1 1 year ago
Comment removed
hazlitt1 1 year ago
@hazlitt1 If you care to look there are different standards than these around the world, this is not one I strive for. And about carving, mincing words about a few mm of drift in a carved turn doesn't amount to anything anyone cares about in skiing. They care to ski better, with the movements that create efficient skiing. 99.9% of skiers would be ecstatic to carve with a few mm of drift, what is the point? Talk about what works, movements that work, I don't see many in this discussion.
skiwhh 1 year ago
@skiwhh I'm one of the 99.9% of guys happy with a few inches out in high speed turns. Hell I'd be happy with a 90% carved turn at 50mph, 80% carve at 70mph etc. That was not what we were talking about. The conversation was about if there is any such thing as a 'perfect' carved turn. Don't change the subject.
hazlitt1 1 year ago
@hazlitt1 OK, fifteen year instructor gets defensive, but doesn't want to answer the questions.
skiwhh 1 year ago
@skiwhh No one is defensive. You're changing the subject because you are loosing the argument.
hazlitt1 1 year ago
@hazlitt1 What argument? I like to talk about skiing movements, you like to talk about skidding 3 mm. What sport are you an instructor in?
skiwhh 1 year ago
Hazlitt says,' I've been a ski instructor fifteen years. I think I can carve a turn."
Got video?
skiwhh 1 year ago
@skiwhh No I haven't, have you?
hazlitt1 1 year ago
PS Technically there is no such thing as pure carving. If your skis side slide even one millimeter or one millionth of a millimeter, it is no longer a 'Pure' carve. So carving is a relative term.
hazlitt1 1 year ago
@hazlitt1 Good excuse! but there are turns with two thin lines in the snow that show that skis do not move to the side.
skiwhh 1 year ago
@skiwhh Speak to the international ski racers and coaches if anyone can perform a pure/100% carve before you accuse people of making excuses. Even if you see two thin lines, the thin lines will still have a small amount of slide, be it millimeters. The faster and tighter the turn the more slide you are inclined to develop. Furthermore the skis no matter how stiff they are, are still inclined to wash variables amounts at higher speeds in tighter turns. There is no such thing as a 100% carve.
hazlitt1 1 year ago
@hazlitt1 I was Tommy Moe's coach and well as many other world cup skiers. The coach and director of the Austrian Team is a personal friend of mine, which one would you like me to talk to?
skiwhh 1 year ago
@skiwhh Ask them both and let them see the points made in this thread.
hazlitt1 1 year ago
Comment removed
hazlitt1 1 year ago
@skiwhh Dear skiwhh, if you look at your carving lines in the snow, you will see that the line/carve is actually wedge shaped. The wedge starts inside the turn and goes deeper into the snow at the outside of the wedge, then you have a wall of snow or ice back up to the surface. The skis turn at the deepest part of the wedge not the beginning of the wedge. The width of this wedge measured across the snow is your side slide.
hazlitt1 1 year ago
@hazlitt1 So what's your point, the best skiers use a technique that leaves two thin lines. It's about how to use movements that work for the best carving technique, not about excuses for why you can't do it.
For you this is about a few millimeters, big deal, it has no bearing what-so-ever on carved turns, for me it's about how to ski correctly and use the right movements.
skiwhh 1 year ago
Comment removed
hazlitt1 1 year ago
Respond to this video... The people in the video, I have no idea who they are; are not carving, Because they are using the wrong movements in their skiing not because there is no such thing as pure carving.
skiwhh 1 year ago
Comment removed
hazlitt1 1 year ago
Respond to this video... The reason they are skidding, is their lack of ability to re-center for each arc and their unweighting in releasing creates an extended phase where the skis are being pushed out to the side, in other words they are in the back seat and they are steering to an edge, which doesn't create carving.
skiwhh 1 year ago
@skiwhh If your carve has no side movement/side slide at all, you would not have even one grain of snow or ice pushed up by your skis. The more the side slide the more snow is scraped up and out, and for longer.
hazlitt1 1 year ago
@hazlitt1 Semantics, the best skiers can come really close to a pure carve, those that can only make runs with skidding turns, without the ability to make carving movements, therefore make excuses for why carving doesn't exist.
skiwhh 1 year ago
@skiwhh I've been a ski instructor fifteen years. I think I can carve a turn. The principle stands, carving is a relative term. There is no such thing as a pure/100% carve. There will always be an amount of side slide, be it several feet or a millimeter. Semantics I hear you say, up to an extent yes. But it gives us a better understanding of what carving is and how to carve closer to perfection, but which can never be achieved.
hazlitt1 1 year ago
Comment removed
hazlitt1 1 year ago
Absolutely right, the snow should be pluming from right below the centre of the boot. This is still not carving, pure carving does not allow you to slow/control your speed unless you traverse for a while and let the friction of the snow slow you down! In fact pure carving should accelerate you out of the turn as you are rebounding/pushing from the arc and bend of the skis.
hazlitt1 1 year ago
@hazlitt1 You are yet to experience the high C turn then, still things to learn, it must be exciting.
skiwhh 1 year ago
Comment removed
hazlitt1 1 year ago
To what extent are the skis carving versus pushing at the end of the turn in order to slow down. I would like to see carving throughout. Notice that many times it is the tail of the ski that pushes out the snow. Does this not suggest that the weight is in the rear and the rear is being used to slow down. Is this carving?
busapp 1 year ago
@busapp Pushing or skidding the rear of the ski before release, is a lack of control of the ski before release. This is definitely not carving. It's mostly caused by rotation and losing the counter or not actually achieving a countered relationship to hold the ski. It can also be caused by too much steering without edge control.
skiwhh 1 year ago
Thanks for posting
wynnski 1 year ago
nice shorts John Boy
daviemor 2 years ago