I think it has to do more with whatever extra components are in the circuit path (amplifier and VCA). You may not be hearing differences in the VCO really. I agree that there are differences between those two with the filters open. But I'd be willing to bet it has to do with the VCA and amp path rather than the VCO directly. A CEM3340 is a CEM3340. And from a designers point of view, they would have wanted to use the least number of components possible in order to built the VCO section.
I've built modular systems and loads of VCOs, VCAs, VCFs. I also do repairs to vintage synths. In my experience, the VCF is where it is at. Give me a DCO or a VCO. As long as there is a good VCF in the circuit path, I'm happy. Arguing that different VCOs really make a "world of difference" is a bit drastic, don't you think? I've built several VCOs, from Thomas Henry XR to SSM based to hand matched transistors designs. They are all VERY similar.
The only real difference in VCOs is in stability and temperature drift... Whether or not it uses a Tempco or not, whether it is a VCO on a chip (CEM) or discrete. All of these things will make a difference on the stability of the oscillation, which will make differences in the perceived sound. But take out the VCF and VCA, and as long as it was built correctly, they should all sound similar, if not, identical to each other.
Ver nice. The thing about Boards of Canada, it sort of sounds like ambient synth music being played in a dream. I can never quite put my finger on their sound.
Generally speaking, yeah, Nord is the sound closest to what they end using, but all it really consists of is a synth with the attack increasing the cutoff frequency to get that "wah" sound, other than that it's really just a plain synth.
Haha, even in spite of that, I think it's pretty much impossible to replicate their actual sound, regardless of how close you might get.
could you please post the preset settings or a high resolution screenshot of the synth in that setting? i would like to get that exact sound on my juno106 :)
It seems like this little guy has a TON of customization. Would you recommend it to somebody who wants really odd/custom patches, or is there something better for roughly the same price? o_o
808 is a drum machine. A very cool one and very expensive one (the backbone of 1980s Electro, Hip Hop (with the MPC) and Acid House). It's not a synth though, unless you are Richie Hawtin and then you get some fucked up stuff out of it - see 'Spastik'.
Yes for the most part. 101 has a noise oscillator too, 202 has variable LFO speed (+ LFO delay) too. People say 101 is slightly bassier and the 202 more mid.
True, the analog stuff is going to have minor variations under an oscilloscope, but you're talking about very minor differences that not a lot of people would notice. I still stand by my comment that the CEM based stuff all sounds extremely similar, plus or minus the various configurations of all these synths.
BTW, if you're really into these synths, I have a small lot of CEM chips (3320,3360, 3374) if you're interested in making a modular system. I never got around to doing it.
So you're saying two identical sine waves under an oscilloscope will sound entirely different? BTW, I'm not arguing that different VCO's sound different. That's sort of obvious, as different component values will shape the sound.
I own an OBXa, Prophet 600, Memory Moog, Fender Chroma Polaris, and an Arp Axxe. I previously owned a Multimoog, MG-1, Juno-106, Polysix, and a PAiA Fatman.
I'll probably sell the rest of these too soon, as they're just too much of a pain to maintain for what they are.
I think you're missing the point of what I was saying. Under an oscilloscope, a waveform is a waveform. So remove any filtering and whatnot, and it is all the same. The differences you're hearing between the obx-a and akai vx with everything open is just different signal processing that is occurring before and after the vco stage, and differences in the vca circuit.
I was about to say "what signature tune, I don't recognize it.." but you said tone. well done, sounds great! I might get an sh-101, I hope it can do the same, I'll be even happier!
How so? They all use Curtis Chips for Their VCO, VCA, and VCF stages. The basic building blocks of these are all the same. Granted, some are much more sophisticated than others, as is the case in the Rhodes Chroma Polaris which uses a 68000 CPU, but they can all achieve nearly identical sounds. I bet I could even make a patch on each one of those keyboards and you'd never be able to tell the difference between them. I own a few of them and have played them all.
BTW, I really think a lot of these machines are over hyped and that people seek them out for the wrong reasons. Yeah I know each one has it's own cool vibe, and that there are subtle differences between them, but for the most part, it's really just the filter stages that matter. A waveform is a waveform no matter where you go. I've achieved stuff on my computer and on modeling synths that sounds equally as good as the analog gear I own, which is why I've been selling a lot of it as of late.
I really dislike soft synths, even if you do gear them up to a decent control surface. you can't beat having a dedicated synth with everything on display to tweak. though I do agree, the whole idea of "true analog" over modeling and software reeeally isn't as huge as people seem to like to imagine. as if there's some whole BoC world which is unreachable by normal means. it's true to an extent but really, not *that* important. though in terms of presets I really hate most modeling synths, eugh!!
I agree ofdarknessandlight, nothing beats having all the knobs in front of you, and I really hate having to go through sub menus and whatnot to edit parameters. However, if anyone here bashing digital modeling synths has ever played and A/B'ed a virus or similar higher end analog modeling synth to real analog like a moog, they'd probably agree that they are equally great in their own way.
Cool, thanks. I'm going to try this on my Alpha Juno 1...probs going to sound pants as the Juno 1 is a whole different beast to the SH/MC/106, love that sound though.
I have an AJ1 and they are great, nice bass and good resonant filter. Not tried this on it, not too sure if it'll work as the SH and MC are built with curtis oscillators. I program mine with a Novation Remote SL Zero, so much easier and really brings out the power of the synth. AJs and JX3Ps are Roland's secret bargains.
Cool, I use a PG-300 Emulator on the PC to make patches. I got sort of close to your sound but lacks that boc feel imo. In the list of secret roland bargins also add the mks-7 and sh-32 as they are total beasts of synths for the price
The 7 is a JX3P in a box isn't it? And the SH32 I have, like (not love) but it will be the first to go when I need rent money sadly. Another (non Roland) STEAL is the TX81Z and not just for lately bass - I'll put up the TX playing the Aphex pad sound from Selected Ambient Works when I get a chance..
I'll post a link to a pic I took later. It's pretty simple tho, the key was in the long attack and the env to filter set at mac. I'll post it tho, keep an eye out!
should try and record this. good stuff.
SouthPawBrown 3 months ago
The thing with BoC is... Trees emit their sounds. They just record them on casettes.
HmND 4 months ago
How do they make their music sound so natural? It's crazy.
gali32731 9 months ago
@gali32731 No computers.
thermalmaximum 4 months ago
Thanks for your input, clearly you know more than me, despite me actually making the video, I'll not make any more videos, being "clearly mental"...
nibkey 10 months ago
nice work
eatmykids 11 months ago
I believe that Boards of Canada's music is created naturally :L.
oryandymackie95 1 year ago
I find these things are a nightmare to program. Its difficult to suppress the urge to smash it to peices with my face.
invanorm 1 year ago
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add a reverb from the DP/4, you get the perfect tune from BOC.
(Had the same result with SH101 plus DP/4)
ringoponpon 1 year ago
add a reverb from the DP/4, you get the perfect tune from BOC.
(Has the same result with SH101 plus DP/4)
ringoponpon 1 year ago
i want one of these so bad
catchthebre3ze 2 years ago
I think it has to do more with whatever extra components are in the circuit path (amplifier and VCA). You may not be hearing differences in the VCO really. I agree that there are differences between those two with the filters open. But I'd be willing to bet it has to do with the VCA and amp path rather than the VCO directly. A CEM3340 is a CEM3340. And from a designers point of view, they would have wanted to use the least number of components possible in order to built the VCO section.
thedefog 2 years ago
I never said that all vco's are made with CEMs.
I've built modular systems and loads of VCOs, VCAs, VCFs. I also do repairs to vintage synths. In my experience, the VCF is where it is at. Give me a DCO or a VCO. As long as there is a good VCF in the circuit path, I'm happy. Arguing that different VCOs really make a "world of difference" is a bit drastic, don't you think? I've built several VCOs, from Thomas Henry XR to SSM based to hand matched transistors designs. They are all VERY similar.
thedefog 2 years ago
The only real difference in VCOs is in stability and temperature drift... Whether or not it uses a Tempco or not, whether it is a VCO on a chip (CEM) or discrete. All of these things will make a difference on the stability of the oscillation, which will make differences in the perceived sound. But take out the VCF and VCA, and as long as it was built correctly, they should all sound similar, if not, identical to each other.
thedefog 2 years ago
cool. When I had mine I could get a close sound for the ROYGBIV bassline as well. Roland made great filters for their synths
stenophonic 2 years ago 6
Ver nice. The thing about Boards of Canada, it sort of sounds like ambient synth music being played in a dream. I can never quite put my finger on their sound.
diablo22900 2 years ago 15
its definitely tape related. several types of tape and I don't doubt dragging their finger on it to slow it down just a tad to give it some flutter.
syzygywell 2 years ago
Absolutely - I've recorded my music to tape for several years and it gives the music a...warmer? sound. It's hard to describe, like you're saying.
Wiktorion 2 years ago
was much better when you played it.. When sequenced, it looses the BoC organic feeling..
Really cool anyway!!
francislalan 2 years ago
Ok looking at the video and from memory I see this:
LFO is only controlling a tiny bit of VCA and later on alot is put into controlling the VCF quickly, at approx 30-60sec
Source mixer - 50% saw, 0% sq, 100% sub osc at only 1 oct below.
VCF, from left - 20%, 50%, 100%, 0%, 0%
VCA - A 75%, D 100%, S 0%, R 80% with the VCA shaping the VCF too.
nibkey 2 years ago
Sorry fast LFO is 50-6sec
nibkey 2 years ago
Comment removed
trombatwist 10 months ago
i've found the nord lead also makes pretty BOC stuff too.
disconnect4 3 years ago
Generally speaking, yeah, Nord is the sound closest to what they end using, but all it really consists of is a synth with the attack increasing the cutoff frequency to get that "wah" sound, other than that it's really just a plain synth.
Haha, even in spite of that, I think it's pretty much impossible to replicate their actual sound, regardless of how close you might get.
ImportantThought 2 years ago
sounds like a square wave with some slow subtle lfo modulation then that slow attack modulating the filter.
and i agree, the 202 is king for trippy leads like this.
benhoughton88 3 years ago
could you please post the preset settings or a high resolution screenshot of the synth in that setting? i would like to get that exact sound on my juno106 :)
jtopland 3 years ago
It seems like this little guy has a TON of customization. Would you recommend it to somebody who wants really odd/custom patches, or is there something better for roughly the same price? o_o
DDRpwnerer 3 years ago
Never mind... I really want to find this gem, now. :(
DDRpwnerer 3 years ago
actually the 202 is quite limited, it's just the base tones and filters are nice. not that customiseable, as much as any other analogue synth anyway.
nibkey 3 years ago
D: I am quite interested in the 808 model now, though. Any insight on it?
DDRpwnerer 3 years ago
808 is a drum machine. A very cool one and very expensive one (the backbone of 1980s Electro, Hip Hop (with the MPC) and Acid House). It's not a synth though, unless you are Richie Hawtin and then you get some fucked up stuff out of it - see 'Spastik'.
nibkey 3 years ago
Don't you mean the "TR-808" drum machine? I'm talking about the MC-808 Sampler Groovebox. Are you...?
DDRpwnerer 3 years ago
o i c, my bad
nibkey 3 years ago
Does the Mc202 use the same sound engine as the SH101?
What's the difference between the two?
Hold423 3 years ago
Yes for the most part. 101 has a noise oscillator too, 202 has variable LFO speed (+ LFO delay) too. People say 101 is slightly bassier and the 202 more mid.
nibkey 3 years ago
202 is much better than 101 cause has ACCENT AND SLIDE!!!!!!!!!!
djpelinn 3 years ago
True, the analog stuff is going to have minor variations under an oscilloscope, but you're talking about very minor differences that not a lot of people would notice. I still stand by my comment that the CEM based stuff all sounds extremely similar, plus or minus the various configurations of all these synths.
BTW, if you're really into these synths, I have a small lot of CEM chips (3320,3360, 3374) if you're interested in making a modular system. I never got around to doing it.
thedefog 3 years ago
So you're saying two identical sine waves under an oscilloscope will sound entirely different? BTW, I'm not arguing that different VCO's sound different. That's sort of obvious, as different component values will shape the sound.
I own an OBXa, Prophet 600, Memory Moog, Fender Chroma Polaris, and an Arp Axxe. I previously owned a Multimoog, MG-1, Juno-106, Polysix, and a PAiA Fatman.
I'll probably sell the rest of these too soon, as they're just too much of a pain to maintain for what they are.
thedefog 3 years ago
I think you're missing the point of what I was saying. Under an oscilloscope, a waveform is a waveform. So remove any filtering and whatnot, and it is all the same. The differences you're hearing between the obx-a and akai vx with everything open is just different signal processing that is occurring before and after the vco stage, and differences in the vca circuit.
thedefog 3 years ago
far better in the 15 first seconds, when U play...
francislalan 3 years ago
I was about to say "what signature tune, I don't recognize it.." but you said tone. well done, sounds great! I might get an sh-101, I hope it can do the same, I'll be even happier!
ofdarknessandlight 3 years ago
anything that uses CEM chips can do that sound.. That means Prophet, Memory Moog, and the like as well as the roland stuff (sh)
thedefog 3 years ago
That is kinda bullshit.
waveshaper 3 years ago
How so? They all use Curtis Chips for Their VCO, VCA, and VCF stages. The basic building blocks of these are all the same. Granted, some are much more sophisticated than others, as is the case in the Rhodes Chroma Polaris which uses a 68000 CPU, but they can all achieve nearly identical sounds. I bet I could even make a patch on each one of those keyboards and you'd never be able to tell the difference between them. I own a few of them and have played them all.
thedefog 3 years ago
BTW, I really think a lot of these machines are over hyped and that people seek them out for the wrong reasons. Yeah I know each one has it's own cool vibe, and that there are subtle differences between them, but for the most part, it's really just the filter stages that matter. A waveform is a waveform no matter where you go. I've achieved stuff on my computer and on modeling synths that sounds equally as good as the analog gear I own, which is why I've been selling a lot of it as of late.
thedefog 3 years ago
big difference comparing old analog keyboards and a computer program that doesnt have one real oscillator in it.....just 1's and 0's
kotep777 3 years ago
I really dislike soft synths, even if you do gear them up to a decent control surface. you can't beat having a dedicated synth with everything on display to tweak. though I do agree, the whole idea of "true analog" over modeling and software reeeally isn't as huge as people seem to like to imagine. as if there's some whole BoC world which is unreachable by normal means. it's true to an extent but really, not *that* important. though in terms of presets I really hate most modeling synths, eugh!!
ofdarknessandlight 3 years ago
I agree ofdarknessandlight, nothing beats having all the knobs in front of you, and I really hate having to go through sub menus and whatnot to edit parameters. However, if anyone here bashing digital modeling synths has ever played and A/B'ed a virus or similar higher end analog modeling synth to real analog like a moog, they'd probably agree that they are equally great in their own way.
thedefog 3 years ago
Nice, but I thought normally they just reversed the recording to get that sound... Weird.
DDRpwnerer 3 years ago
Awesome job!!!
Really gets the BoC vibe.
Check out my BoC covers. :)
AmbientGuitarSounds 3 years ago
i would say.. nicely done!
(i want one!)
s7409651 3 years ago
Souns a little like tubular bells.
Kalusi707 3 years ago
anyone know how to do this on a SH-101?
casiokorg 3 years ago
anyone know how to make a similer sound on the SH-101? i tried the 202 instructions on the 101, but it didnt work :(
casiokorg 3 years ago
Sorry to all but youtube's system won't let me post the link to the 202 pic with the settings.
Try Pulse wave at half, saw at zero, sub (1 oct below) at full.
VCO at 2'
VCF Freq at 0, Rez at half, Env at 4/5ths, others at 0
VCA set to env with attack at 4/5ths, decay at full, sus at zero and release at full too.
Route the lfo to pulse width if you want but it's not in the original sound, just the later bit.
nibkey 3 years ago
Cool, thanks. I'm going to try this on my Alpha Juno 1...probs going to sound pants as the Juno 1 is a whole different beast to the SH/MC/106, love that sound though.
vinyljunkie07 3 years ago
I have an AJ1 and they are great, nice bass and good resonant filter. Not tried this on it, not too sure if it'll work as the SH and MC are built with curtis oscillators. I program mine with a Novation Remote SL Zero, so much easier and really brings out the power of the synth. AJs and JX3Ps are Roland's secret bargains.
nibkey 3 years ago
Cool, I use a PG-300 Emulator on the PC to make patches. I got sort of close to your sound but lacks that boc feel imo. In the list of secret roland bargins also add the mks-7 and sh-32 as they are total beasts of synths for the price
vinyljunkie07 3 years ago
The 7 is a JX3P in a box isn't it? And the SH32 I have, like (not love) but it will be the first to go when I need rent money sadly. Another (non Roland) STEAL is the TX81Z and not just for lately bass - I'll put up the TX playing the Aphex pad sound from Selected Ambient Works when I get a chance..
nibkey 3 years ago
My bad - MKS 30 is the 3P in a box. 7 is the 106 a-like. Chose the JX10 over a 106 though, Roland's misunderstood flagship but looks awesome.
nibkey 3 years ago
that's just about spot on!
oysterrock 3 years ago
Brilliant! Thanks....never thought of using my 202 without the sequencer this way. Nice. Very nice...:) Such a rich tone...
deepchild2064 3 years ago
hey can you PM me the statistics you used to make this song?
thanks!
casiokorg 3 years ago
I'll post a link to a pic I took later. It's pretty simple tho, the key was in the long attack and the env to filter set at mac. I'll post it tho, keep an eye out!
nibkey 3 years ago
perfect :P
casiokorg 3 years ago
awesome!
909techno 3 years ago