Saddleback Church Civil Forum - Obama & McCain 4 of 17

[thecmonster93]

when I first saw this forum between McCain and Obama I knew right away that Obama was lying. the man cannot be trusted and he has proven that.

[PittsburghD]

With the recent news in Cairo, where does Obama's faith and devotion seem to be?

[karla52752Karla]

What I think is funny about this video is that the crowd in the backround, chuckles at everything McCain says, even when he's trying to be serious, and when Obama speaks the crowd is sooooo silent. It's as if they are waiting for McCain to be funny.I don't know, I just think the crowd's mind is made up about who they are voting for.

[cecefranki]

"It means Jesus Christ died for my sins..." BUT - "hopefully those sins will be washed away." -Obama vacillates on his OWN eternal life?!!!

McCain - "IT MEANS I'M SAVED AND FOGIVEN" - no hesitation, no caveat; "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and YOU SHALL BE SAVED" -Acts

McCAIN gives the grace TO GOD - and NOT OF himself, lest any man should boast -Ephesians

VOTE McCAIN - oriented to God's GRACE

[javinovsky]

Why religion is so important for some people?

[theguyfromaustralia]

Hi Javinosky,

You asked a really good question. For me as a Christian I would probably ask you, 'What do you know about God and Jesus Christ?'

You can respond privately if you wish. Cheers.

[surftuberox]

While Sen. John McCain's wife and father-in-law were investing with Charles H. Keating, Jr. in a shopping center, McCain was helping Keating battle federal regulators who questioned his operation of Lincoln Savings and Loan Documents show that Sen. John McCain's wife, Cindy, and father-in-law, James W. Hensley are the largest investors

[surftuberox]

After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain

[life0is0just0a0ride]

McCain blinks alot.

[theguyfromaustralia]

I noticed that too, I probably got more bad habits than him though lol

[acardon]

He also makes weird grunting sounds before he speaks. Its an elderly thing...

[fullofwonder123]

it's a funny though! lol

[netcisco]

Who is more compassionate to the "least of us"?

Obama gave 6% of his income to charity in 2007, he made over a million in 2007.

Dick Cheney gave over 70% of his income to charity. Cheney made over 8 million in 2007 and gave more than 6 million to charity.

Where in the scriptures does it say that the government needs to take care of the poor? Isn't that our job as a society? As a member of the family? As a member of a church?

[elbauzan]

John McCain's story was really touching. You can clearly see in his answers how much the captivity changed his life, for the better I would say.

[cecefranki]

Hey there giromino - thanks for providing this format of Rick Warren's Q & A at Saddleback. Very interesting. Who "won"? Well, the polls are now even. McCain undeniably showed humilty while Obama was as narcisistic (and long-winded) as ever. Obama is a socialistic communist who wants to disarm America while McCain HAS FOUGHT and WILL FIGHT for America. There is no contest (unless you're black, or a divorced-from-reality-third-ge­neration-flower-child).

VOTE McCAIN

[dija82]

*sigh* idiot.

[foxrat123]

John McCain is an honorable man and a great American. He has earned and deserves the highest respect. Oh yeah, John McCain is qualified to be president. I can't say the same thing about Mr. partial birth abortion black liberation theology church going Marxist Barack Obama. I can say "shame on Obama".

[ls1z28chris]

Having been a prisoner of war is not a qualification to be President.

Name one thing that John McCain has done since my life began (1983) that would be a qualification for President.

[eirefrance]

I heard somewhere that McCain stole that story from Solzhenitsen. I'm not trying to do some Fox News-style question/smear, but does anyone know if thats true?

[giramino]

The incident involving Solzhenitsyn was quite different in that it was not a prison guard but another fellow prisoner who drew the Cross in the ground in front of Solzhenitsyn to encourage him since he was in danger of a guard coming around and killing him. In the same type incident with McCain, it was a guard who drew the sign of the Cross. These same occurrences are daily 24/7 in countries such as China today and have been common since the early church hundreds of years ago.

[angelsoulnme]

What does it mean to me to trust in Christ? Obama said he is redeemed through Him, but hopes that his sins were wasjhed away. He didnt sound heartfelt at all. What it means to me? Jesus saved my life, not only my soul but my life. He paid the price for my sins, and if it were not for HIS love, I would probablybe dead by now. He healed my body,when I was told I would never have a child. He has taken care of me in every sense of the word, and never ever once failed me. Without Him I'd be lost

[eirefrance]

What on earth does your ramble even mean? He sounds like every Christian I've ever met, but he's not 'heartfelt' because he's black, so he must be a secret muslim? Was he attending that 'America-hating' CHURCH for 20 years as a clever ruse?

[angelsoulnme]

What on earth does YOUR ramble mean? What I said and meant was when you have a true relationship with Jesus Christ when you speak on it, you do it with conviction and gratitude. Obama saying that he HOPES his sins are washed away tells me that he doesn't read his Bible very often. Second of all, what in the heck are you talking about - he is black so he must be a secret muslim? Did I say that? NO - I am also of mixed race, so stop assuming. I dont think he is the Christian he says he is.

[eirefrance]

You don't think he's a Christian because the language he's using is slightly different from the language you use? I recall reading this word somewhere; I think it was denomination or something like that. And something about a personal relationship with God. I feel like if I really stretched, I could find a way to relate that to this argument. But, hey, you're the believer, what do I know?

[angelsoulnme]

I dont understand the animosity - I really don't. I have given Obama the benefit of the doubt, but I am sorry, I think that he is saying is more of a Christian than he really is for his own gain. Obama voted FOR Partial Birth Abortion and AGAINST the Protect Live Infant Act - A true follower of Jesus Christ would not vote that way. Im sorry.

[eirefrance]

The animosity is simple; believing what you believe and spreading it has become a reason not to vote for an otherwise good candidate, which will put in office a man who is looking worse and worse as time passes. Perhaps I am lacking in the civility that Pastor Warren is looking for, but its hard to help when this is the discussion.

[angelsoulnme]

I hear what you are saying but that is because you are an Obama supporter, and because you are, he can do no wrong. There is too much about him that hasn't been explained, and the more I speak to Obama supporters, it is clear that even many of them are looking to him as the lesser of two evils. I dont know who I am going to vote for, but you should understand that just because I am not an Obama follower doesnt mean I am a McCain supporter.

[adknerr]

That's awesome for you. I'm glad you've found that support.

However, McCain didn't do CRAP to answer that question. Obama may not be heart felt, but at least it was clearer how it associated to the question. McCain once again goes on a rant about his time as POW.

So God means to me that even someone that's torturing me can also be a Christian... great.

-Drew

[angelsoulnme]

I was not commenting on McCain Drew, I was commenting on Obama. Why is it if someone is against Obama, that means that it is assumed that they are automatically a McCain Supporter?

[adknerr]

AngelSoulnMe, since we have exactly two choices... if you are complaining only about one, the likely assumption is that you prefer the other. If you don't like that for an answer then what's the answer to:

Why does me replying to someone's bashing about Obama by bashing McCain make that person assume I am labelling them as a McCain supporter?

You're awefully defensive about who you are supporting. Just stand up and pick a side already.

-Drew

[angelsoulnme]

I was mocked and told I was "rambling" because I made a statement about Obama profession of Christianity. Now you are telling me I must "Pick a Side" - Maybe you aren't aware of this, but there are other candidates besides McCain and Obama. I want to cast my vote because I want a particular candidate, not because I picking the lesser of two evils. You're awfully BOSSY.

[adknerr]

I didn't mock you or tell say you were rambling. "Pick A Side" meaning who you'd prefer out of a two-person 'debate'. Now if you are a 3rd/4th party supporter, great for you. Looks like the 2 party system will still holder supreme (which I don't like) so I'm interested to hear about their ideas... on THEIR forum.

Rather dodgy to come here and bash one out of the two's views over and over again, then be staunchly defensive that you aren't supporting the 2nd person's view.

-Drew

[ls1z28chris]

Are you talking about picking a "winner" or a "loser" for this debate?

The problem is that in the context of a national presidential debate, there should be no "their" forum in the meaning to which you refer. 2 parties should not be permitted to stack the deck against competition. There is no difference between the DNC and GOP. They're the same on the important issues, primarily respect for and adherence to the Constitution. Other voices should be heard, if only Libertarian and Green.

[adknerr]

Again, there are only 2... so unless it is a stalemate between the two, you must have thought one of the two 'won' more than the other.

You're pushing an open door with your 2nd paragraph. However I don't think hijacking a YouTube video's comment section would be the place... nor would arguing with each other about who likes or dislikes whom, which btw I NEVER claimed to know anyone's here.

I think I'll go ahead and let it go at this point. Cheering abound :)

-Drew

[ls1z28chris]

As far as this debate goes, both of them lost. There was no substantive discussion. Those who oppose Obama think he was too articulate and "nuanced." Those who opposed McCain thought he recited talking points. Both of them lost because they both lack substance on the important issues.

You can keep trying to pigeon hole me if you'd like. I hope you enjoy yourself.

[ls1z28chris]

There are more than two sides, Drew.

The reason why the status quo never changes is because the two major parties have you convinced that they are the only two choices. Since they both believe in a cradle to grave nanny-state that will bankrupt our economy and intrude on our Constitutional liberties, I wouldn't call that a choice.

[angelsoulnme]

We have more in common than I thought! I agree with you here 1000%

[adknerr]

Ok you name me, out of this debate, what the 3rd choice is and I'll retract my statement. If you are here on THIS youtube forum bashing one person and not the other... then you obviously favor one out of these two.

I neither said I liked having only two major parties, nor disagree with your status quo argument. That's significantly off topic here.

-Drew

Angel is

[ls1z28chris]

There are other videos where Obama talks about the war where I have "bashed" his rhetoric.

Favoring one over the other does not mean that I support one of them. If I were to attack Stalin in a discussion of the atrocities carried out by his regime, that does not mean I favor Lenin or Hitler because I was not "bashing" them.

[adknerr]

Your Stalin/Hitler comparison is utterly rediculous when comparing what I was referring to and you know it. There are exactly TWO people in this YouTube video's 'debate'.

-Drew

[ls1z28chris]

The logical comparison is apt. Not only is it inappropriate to judge my sympathies based off of who I happen to be condemning in this video's comments section, but the assumption that I support one guy if I attack the other is completely asinine.

In your last comment you talk about context. Yet my comments here, given in the context of a debate about faith and abortion, have compelled you to reach the conclusion that I am an Obama supporter.

Follow your own advice.

[smackalady]

Jesus here,... go throw yourself in front of a train for me.

[sdhall5]

What about the unborn child, is that not the "least of these"

[ls1z28chris]

Quit pushing your superstition on the American people.

[1iceman2004]

This is not solely a theological issue so save it.

[ls1z28chris]

Not solely, but primarily.  Show me one prominent anti-abortion leader or activist who isn't an evangelical.

[jesseakers]

show me one anti-god leader who isnt angry and conceited

[smackalady]

So anger is bad? And define conceited, also presumptuous.

[ls1z28chris]

Saying abortion is not primarily a theological issue is as disingenuous as saying creationism is science. They're both religious issues advocated by evangelicals, regardless of the inarticulate arguments they come up with.

[1iceman2004]

Before your get on that horse let's also remember that Darwinism is also a theory that has not passed the test of science in not being reproduced and confirmed in the lab. Hence it's a theory, nothing more.

On this broad brush issue, equating that someone is religious and superstitous for not supporting abortion is not broad minded, as many liberal love to identify themselve as, but rather very narrow minded with a set paradigm as offensive as any from any left or right extremist.

[ls1z28chris]

I understand you're regurgitating evangelical talking points, but you should really endeavor to understand what "theory" means in a scientific context. You're playing games with semantics and people's ignorance about scientific terms. That microorganisms cause disease is the "germ theory." Evolution has been consistently supported by peer reviewed science. The only people who oppose evolution are crackpot evangelicals.

[1iceman2004]

I tried to interject an observation into a multifaceted subject and you take the usual leftist low road of inferring ignorance and charging me with regurgitating evangelical talking points while regugitating your own.

[ls1z28chris]

What you did was confuse a theory, one that has been established, supported, and modified for decades, with hypothesis. You also attempted to constrain the subject to Darwinism rather than evolution.

Ignorance is not the only quality that can be inferred from your comment. The other possibility is intellectual dishonesty.

I'm still waiting on the name of that anti-abortion leader who happens not to be an evangelical.

[ls1z28chris]

You misunderstand me if you think that I am calling someone who is religious superstitious for not supporting abortion. I should clarify my position: All religion is superstition.

Superstition being defined as, "a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation."

I am not a liberal, by the way. Speaking of paradigms, I think the left-right paradigm is a false construct.

[jesseakers]

ok... from a purely naturalistic viewpoint (yours)if life does not begin at conception, then where does it? I m a christian but have no intention of evangalizing as you clearly do not want to hear it... but lets have a purely logical discussion on the topic of abortion

[angelsoulnme]

So are you saying that every person who is against abortion - specifically Partial Birth Abortion the most barbaric practice I have ever heard - is religious? are you saying that there are no Pro Life People who are against it just because it is the taking of a life? So only Christian people have moral values?

[ls1z28chris]

I never said that every person who is against abortion is religious. I said that the anti-abortion movement is led exclusively by the religious. That is an important distinction.

The common person will tell you a partial birth abortion is abhorrent. The leaders of the so-called "pro life" movement would ban any type of contraception, the morning after pill, stem cell research, etc. in order to fulfill what they have their minions convinced is "god's" will.

[angelsoulnme]

I dont like abortion, but I dont feel right about taking the choice away from a woman IF it is done very early. I was unaware that the typical pro-lifer was against contraception? Lumping prevention in with termination isn't right either. I thought though at the VERY LEAST all people would agree that Partial Birth Abortion should be banned and Obama voted against the ban.

[jojopuff05]

I completely agree.