Ronpaulbot, why can't we hold a fair trial in Washington DC? We were attacked there? And he already confessed!!! He did it. How is it FAIR that Holder and Obama said he's already going to be convicted with the death peanalty.
Trying them in DC doesn't fix any of your alleged cost, security risks & circus/stage concerns. That argument, therefore, fails by the weight of ur own arguments. Obama was an idiot for asserting that they'll be convicted and put to death, even if that's what he thinks & hopes for (as we all do). Of course, he was pushed politically to take such a stance, by a relentless rightwing that tried to paint him as being soft on prosecuting the 911 terrorists. Still, it wasn't smart move on his part.
wow just wow. if what you say does happen no body will give a damn how civilized we are as a country, trust me radicals woultd not have to think twice about committing crimes or acts of terrorism on the American people or their homeland. KSM is not an American CITIZEN!! and should not be tried as one. If for whatever reason they release them justice would not have been served, and well our days as a nation are numbered.
xVin, out here in Cali, they teach us that you don't have to be an American Citizen to be tried in our civilian court system. So its difficult for me to understand what you mean when you say, "KSM is not an American CITIZEN!! and should not be tried as one" Perhaps you meant that he engaged in an act of war, and therefore shouldn't be tried in our civilian courts, which afford him the same trial rights that all American citizens have? If so, my posts below outline the reasons for doing so.
I stand with Rudy! This decision is indefensible, irresponsible, and insensitive to the 9/11 victims and their family's to relive the terror from that day. The American public deserve a true explanation by Mr. Obama & Mr. Holder of why and how this decision was reached. There are thousands of other forums where a fair trial can be held without exposing NYC to the costs, security risks, circus, and public stage for this enemy combatants of the state.
agreed, it dosnt make much sense to hold these terrorists on civilian courts all!! and yet they bring them to NYC!! Holder and Obama know they are killers and want to see them found guilty so why even waste money effort and time to hold these trials. all this is is an attempt to embarass the bush administraton and make them look incompetent. if these men are acquitted Holder and Obama should be revoked of their jobs and be charged with treason
What if KSM is innocent? What makes the US system of justice different from that of countries deemed "less civilized" is that it presumes everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Even if everyone already "knows" that the person is guilty, it doesn't matter. The burden is put on the state to prove its case.
By not giving KSM a fair trial, the US shows the world that it is not the country of laws it so proudly says it is. It will help those that hate the US to recruit more terrorists.
The explanation is seven-fold. The evidence against these terrorists is overwhelming, which substantially reduces the marginal benefit of the more prosecutor-friendly rules of evidence in military commissions. Second, of late, the efficacy of military tribunals, in convicting and punishing terrorists, has not been shown to be superior to that of civil courts. Third, changes in constitutional, international and military laws have caused a lot of uncertainty about the commissions' validity,
which in turn has led to many legal challenges that will continue indefinitely. Thats not exactly what you want if you're trying to bring a number of people to justice anytime soon. Fourth, there is no added security risk to trying these men in NYC. Those that would bring harm to that great city would gladly do so anyway, at a drop of a hat. Fifth, defendants would make more of a mockery of military courts, since military commissions' rules would actually provide them with a basis
for them to do so. Sixth, NY is where two planes crashed, two towers (and a number of other buildings) fell, and over three thousand people were murdered. It is therefore very fitting that they should face justice in that city, and it will help bring closure to it and its inhabitants. Seventh, plenty of 9/11 victims' family members want them tried there, and if reports are to be believed, so do a lot of New Yorkers. So there's your explanation. Now, what I want explained is
why Mayor Giuliani decided to put NYCs emergency command center inside the twin towers, after they were first hit in 93, instead of locating them out in Brooklyn, where he was told to put it and where it has, subsequently and rightfully, been moved to. And Id also like to know why anyone would listen to a man that screwed that one up, big time.
im not big on law and all of its contents, but i do remeber a simple phrase the defendent is innocent until proven guilty, and in this case i think the whole world knows these men did what they did and even they do not deny it. i know we are trying to show class to barbarians, but the message will not hit, why waste taxpayer money time and effort to conduct this trial if we all know they are guilty, and also if we come across a biased jury i pray that these men are not acquitted.
Recall the DC sniper shooters. Everyone knew they were guilty too, but the system tried them anyway. It/they have to, for if we don't, we lose some of the very ideals that make us better then these murderers -- these terrorists. It's why we tried Nazi war criminals in Nuremberg, despite the cost of doing so and even though we all thought they too were guilty.
"That four great nations, flushed with victory and stung with injury stay the hand of vengeance and voluntarily submit their captive enemies to the judgment of the law is one of the most significant tributes that Power has ever paid to Reason." -- Justice Jackson, Opening statement of the Prosecution, Nuremberg Trials.
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MrSmellychicken79 2 years ago
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MrSmellychicken79 2 years ago
Ronpaulbot, why can't we hold a fair trial in Washington DC? We were attacked there? And he already confessed!!! He did it. How is it FAIR that Holder and Obama said he's already going to be convicted with the death peanalty.
azweibel 2 years ago
Trying them in DC doesn't fix any of your alleged cost, security risks & circus/stage concerns. That argument, therefore, fails by the weight of ur own arguments. Obama was an idiot for asserting that they'll be convicted and put to death, even if that's what he thinks & hopes for (as we all do). Of course, he was pushed politically to take such a stance, by a relentless rightwing that tried to paint him as being soft on prosecuting the 911 terrorists. Still, it wasn't smart move on his part.
MrSmellychicken79 2 years ago
wow just wow. if what you say does happen no body will give a damn how civilized we are as a country, trust me radicals woultd not have to think twice about committing crimes or acts of terrorism on the American people or their homeland. KSM is not an American CITIZEN!! and should not be tried as one. If for whatever reason they release them justice would not have been served, and well our days as a nation are numbered.
xVin89x 2 years ago
xVin, out here in Cali, they teach us that you don't have to be an American Citizen to be tried in our civilian court system. So its difficult for me to understand what you mean when you say, "KSM is not an American CITIZEN!! and should not be tried as one" Perhaps you meant that he engaged in an act of war, and therefore shouldn't be tried in our civilian courts, which afford him the same trial rights that all American citizens have? If so, my posts below outline the reasons for doing so.
MrSmellychicken79 2 years ago
I stand with Rudy! This decision is indefensible, irresponsible, and insensitive to the 9/11 victims and their family's to relive the terror from that day. The American public deserve a true explanation by Mr. Obama & Mr. Holder of why and how this decision was reached. There are thousands of other forums where a fair trial can be held without exposing NYC to the costs, security risks, circus, and public stage for this enemy combatants of the state.
azweibel 2 years ago
agreed, it dosnt make much sense to hold these terrorists on civilian courts all!! and yet they bring them to NYC!! Holder and Obama know they are killers and want to see them found guilty so why even waste money effort and time to hold these trials. all this is is an attempt to embarass the bush administraton and make them look incompetent. if these men are acquitted Holder and Obama should be revoked of their jobs and be charged with treason
xVin89x 2 years ago
What if KSM is innocent? What makes the US system of justice different from that of countries deemed "less civilized" is that it presumes everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Even if everyone already "knows" that the person is guilty, it doesn't matter. The burden is put on the state to prove its case.
By not giving KSM a fair trial, the US shows the world that it is not the country of laws it so proudly says it is. It will help those that hate the US to recruit more terrorists.
ronpaulbot 2 years ago
The explanation is seven-fold. The evidence against these terrorists is overwhelming, which substantially reduces the marginal benefit of the more prosecutor-friendly rules of evidence in military commissions. Second, of late, the efficacy of military tribunals, in convicting and punishing terrorists, has not been shown to be superior to that of civil courts. Third, changes in constitutional, international and military laws have caused a lot of uncertainty about the commissions' validity,
MrSmellychicken79 2 years ago
which in turn has led to many legal challenges that will continue indefinitely. Thats not exactly what you want if you're trying to bring a number of people to justice anytime soon. Fourth, there is no added security risk to trying these men in NYC. Those that would bring harm to that great city would gladly do so anyway, at a drop of a hat. Fifth, defendants would make more of a mockery of military courts, since military commissions' rules would actually provide them with a basis
MrSmellychicken79 2 years ago
for them to do so. Sixth, NY is where two planes crashed, two towers (and a number of other buildings) fell, and over three thousand people were murdered. It is therefore very fitting that they should face justice in that city, and it will help bring closure to it and its inhabitants. Seventh, plenty of 9/11 victims' family members want them tried there, and if reports are to be believed, so do a lot of New Yorkers. So there's your explanation. Now, what I want explained is
MrSmellychicken79 2 years ago
why Mayor Giuliani decided to put NYCs emergency command center inside the twin towers, after they were first hit in 93, instead of locating them out in Brooklyn, where he was told to put it and where it has, subsequently and rightfully, been moved to. And Id also like to know why anyone would listen to a man that screwed that one up, big time.
MrSmellychicken79 2 years ago
im not big on law and all of its contents, but i do remeber a simple phrase the defendent is innocent until proven guilty, and in this case i think the whole world knows these men did what they did and even they do not deny it. i know we are trying to show class to barbarians, but the message will not hit, why waste taxpayer money time and effort to conduct this trial if we all know they are guilty, and also if we come across a biased jury i pray that these men are not acquitted.
xVin89x 2 years ago
Recall the DC sniper shooters. Everyone knew they were guilty too, but the system tried them anyway. It/they have to, for if we don't, we lose some of the very ideals that make us better then these murderers -- these terrorists. It's why we tried Nazi war criminals in Nuremberg, despite the cost of doing so and even though we all thought they too were guilty.
MrSmellychicken79 2 years ago
"That four great nations, flushed with victory and stung with injury stay the hand of vengeance and voluntarily submit their captive enemies to the judgment of the law is one of the most significant tributes that Power has ever paid to Reason." -- Justice Jackson, Opening statement of the Prosecution, Nuremberg Trials.
MrSmellychicken79 2 years ago