Dogfights! Gun Kills of Vietnam A-1 Skyraider vs Mig-17

[matoy77]

Hahahaha, fantastic. Thumbs up.

[biukucanoe]

@matoy77 Please nominate another famous dogfight you'd like to see....

[headdownharris]

"piece of junk" ???

[biukucanoe]

@headdownharris Actually one of the most magnificent prop planes ever produced, it's just to contrast against the MiG-17 which is actually only about 5 years newer than the prop plane which came out just in time to miss WWII!

[xxchinookxx]

A copy video of the dogfight and death of the Mig pilot was sent to the family of the gook.

[biukucanoe]

@xxchinookxx Does anybody identify the defeated MiG pilot? MiG-17s gave F-100s, Thuds and Phantoms fits. The MiG-21s when they appeared were used primarily in hit and run slashing attacks. It was the MiG-17 "snakes" that did the dogfighting, but they probably trained against supersonic types and didn't go over tactics of scrapping with slower planes, like the American fighter jocks.

[biukucanoe]

@stupidrider53 They never had much to start with. Unlike Korea when Russia and China sent the best in the world and plenty of it  with seasoned russian pilots, these poor b----ds got leftover 17s which was 1st upgrade of MiG-15 after the end of Korean war. They didn't have much to work with except being clever and having tons of SAM-2s, the equivalent of our Nike Ajax. the real problem wasn't next generation of MiGs but the OLD generation of MiG-17s. AA and SAM mean A-1 were rescue escort only.

[biukucanoe]

@stupidrider53 Other story is Than Hoa / Dragon's Jaw Bridge where the piece of junk MiG-17s are pitted against the ultra-modern American F-105 Thunderchief and they shot down 3 of them (the Thuds didn't know what hit them, and it was huge commie victory though 3 of 4 MiG-17s were also downed). By the end of the war, they had more aces than Americans largely because they didn't have many pilots who had to fight all the time. F-14 and F-15 were the result of poor F105 showing. A1->A10

[JimBeer61]

I don't understand... This is so stupid. Plus your comments about other planes not shooting down any Migs don't make much sense. The A-4 did shoot down a MiG. I don't know how you think an A-6 is going to shoot down a MiG; it has no guns and it's missiles were anti-radar only. The F-100 hardly ever, if at all, went north where the MiGs were. The F-104 was in-country for only a few months and was point defense, which wasn't necessary. The F-111 was in no way, shape, or form a fighter. Whatever.

[biukucanoe]

@JimBeer61 I never heard of any A-4 MiG kills, though it's probably a better match for a MiG-17 than a bombed up F-105. As bad as the F-105 was as a dogfighter, the

f-111 was worse, the only "kill" was an EF-111 in Desert Storm that flew a pursuing Mirage into the ground. The A-6 is a much higher performance plane than the A-1, but at least the A-1 had guns to nail any Mig that flew across it's 20mm. The F-111A was sold as a fighter, but unlike the F-105 or F-4 deleted guns AND missles

[biukucanoe]

@TheSuperN00b The Mig-17 was the biggest nuisance against the F-4, Cuningham's legendary duel was with a Mig-17, though the communist pilots actually preferred the Mig-21 when they could get them . The A-1 scored more mig kills than jet-fighter class A-4 skyhawk (Top Gun mig-17 sim) A-6, or F-111

[TheSuperN00b]

@biukucanoe yes but during rolling thunder the quantity from Mig-21 were less than the MiG-17 some Vietnamese MIG-17 were a ex Hungarian Service second hands donated to the PVNAF total MiG-17 getting from VN during the War are 135. MIG-17 with less speed than the F-4/8/105 their tactic were fly at low altitude (for avoid enemy radar signals) and down them in Dogfights but was dangerous because in case to Ejection the parachute not work I think this Vietnamese pilot die :/

[biukucanoe]

@TheSuperN00b Normally the NViet AF was outnumbered in obsolete aircraft, this is the rare instance where the Americans were in the slower less advanced planes.

[TheSuperN00b]

@biukucanoe yeah air force was without capacity from effective defense over all the North that is because the most US planes loses were by AAA fire the quantity losses from Air to Air Combat is irrelevant. the low quantity from fighters were one reason defeat in 1972 offensive they taken some ways inc the Ex US base Khe Sanh but the offensive in others all points fail. One reason from the low quantity of planes from VNPAF was the bad Relationship between the USSR and China after 1968.

[biukucanoe]

@TheSuperN00b Yes, too bad they didn't identify the pilot. They certainly did not train how to fight A-1 any more than Thud pilots were taught how to tangle with MiG-17s.

[biukucanoe]

@TheSuperN00b An Army OV-1 Mohawk evidently also bagged a Mig-17

[TheSuperN00b]

lol good video but about 450 A-1 were down in Vietnam most of them by AAA fire

[biukucanoe]

@TheSuperN00b The A-1 was what created the requirement for the A-10, but you don't hear much of that. The F-35 will make a horrible A-1 replacement.

[biukucanoe]

hey wow the ads worked, invited to share ad revenue, and it's clear of music / video copyrights! wohooo.

[lorrigrrl]

Are you the Pianist on the Shamu Killer Whale VIdeo?

If not, do you know who it is?

Beautiful peice...

;)

[rustyATV]

When I watched that episode I was thinking "Did this moment really take five minutes?"

[Starwarsfreak101st]

You know that this incident humiliated so much the North Vietnamese Air Force that it is said that Hanoi actually pulled the Migs 17 squadrons for additional training

[biukucanoe]

Interesting if you could document that it could go on wikipedia....

[biukucanoe]

anybody know the name of this north vietnamese pilot? The names of the guys on that Thanh Hoa bridge that shot down the F-105s are out.

[crotchboots]

WTF...

[chimera15]

lol

[markbart7]

Give me back a minute of my life.

[scottN1980]

Was that cgi or real?

[thesweatleaf]

I think you made a good point on the America-centric "Dogfights" show. It's the same boring story every time.

[E8WARRIOR]

is this surpose to be a slight on all of us who fought in vietnam i dont find it funny at all

[biukucanoe]

actually Vietnam was my favorite war, A-1 was one of my favorite classic planes. OV-1 mohawk also scored a Mig-15, but never made dogfights.

[randomusernamemygod]

You never even served in Vietnam, unless you travelled back in time considering you were not even born at the time E8WARRIOR.

[biukucanoe]

I'm nearly 50. I watched C-5A's take off CBS Morning News and death counts every evening, and read accounts of A-1 and A-37 in Aviation Week. Slow airplanes like the A-1 are what are needed in COIN environment in Iraq and Afghanistan, not fast movers like F-16 and F-18 being used now.

[vmqndt]

You really fought in Vietnam? It's a serious question, indeed.

[biukucanoe]

I was in jr high and high school towards the end of the war (count backwards from 50..) Went to MIT instead of Air Force academy though.

[pulsar7shine]

I know this is somewhat a joke, but the skyraider was designed for air to ground . It was very effective for jungles with napalm ordinance as well as strafing. In that sense it was more effective than the fast moving jetfighter interceptors.

[pulsar7shine]

ooookay !

[trdfsh]

You're stupid.

[Icepacalapse]

RIP charlie hartman.

I sure hope this is a swipe at the show and not an attempt to diminish the action that took place that day as my dad was the other skyraider pilot and he's still available most anywhere in the world to stop by for a visit.

[biukucanoe]

I am truly honored to meet your dad, and i'd love to chat on a real phone. This was an awesome encounter, I was just inspired to do this simplified version, when I get the time I fully intend to skewer other deserving military engagements.

[carnage2681]

Man, thats better than the real show

[Clockwork33a]

holey fucking LOL!!

I love dogfights the TV show and that is so fucking funny.

[joaofga123]

lol look at the MiG-17 xD

[Havoc123Heli456]

Tye Fighter

[dominic970]

lmao

[pathx21]

hahaha nice!

[biukucanoe]

good topic for your video. Just get some toys and a white board.

[ICEKOLDKILLA22]

plz make mor vidz

[biukucanoe]

I'll see if I can dig up the time to do another one, I'll take suggestions as to stories. Maybe "dogfights of the future" with the colonial viper vs Cylon raider

[SmiertSpionem]

While they are banging on about the American Korean war aces they should at least mention the Chinese and Russian aces, maybe even mention Sergei Kramarenko 13 jet kills, and two in WW2 (18 years old at the time), he's still alive as of 2007.

[SmiertSpionem]

Wonderful! If you don't make another I will have to do so myself!!

[biukucanoe]

I want to do thanh hoa bridge next. 45 Mach 2

F-105s, 25 supersonic F-100s et smoked by 3 elderly Mig-17s. N vietnam had many more aces than the US.

[1z1q]

seeings how the u.s.only had two aces and one with four that's not saying alot!!!! are you saying the nvaf had better pilots you're wrong they where deliverey men trained to listen to instructions from the ground wow

[biukucanoe]

usual reasons are that nvaf guys had to fly all the time, there weren't very many of them, and American tactics were pretty naiive in the early days. Still a contrast to "our" vietnamese in the south, who did so poorly American had go in and "do it right" ourselves.

[mightycowhero]

err... funny.

[Starwarsfreak101st]

To be exact the South Vietnamese was diliberately underequipped due to america wanting to control the bombing and thus having a negociating tool. However the VNAF was extremely courageous and many flew to the bitter end.

[biukucanoe]

That's true, Thieu wanted Phantoms. Treaty initially did not allow jets. USAF originally supplied A-1 to VNAF as hand me downs, but adopted them for Sandy and CAS when F-100 was overkill, led to spec for A-10.

[Teglen]

Thanks man. That said all about the quality of the "Dogfights" shows in which only Americans are heroes and all others are just there to be shot down.

They will surely never make a show about any foreign pilot who became an ace.

[SmiertSpionem]

Haha, so true. The day they actually make a program about Russian, French, Finnish, German or British aces (of which there were many) hell will freeze over...

[Jollygreenslugg]

Clearly the most advanced use of model and graphic technology ever! I felt like I was there. Scratch one MiG!!!

Thankyou, good sir!

[blewett76]

haha funny

[forcerecon85]

well done. the information seemed accurate except for the "mig" haha

[biukucanoe]

Hey, you try to track down a 1/72 Mig-17....

[biukucanoe]

Ironic Skyraider got more Mig kills than the Skyhawk, which was roughly in the same class, and used in Top Gun as MiG simulators. F-105 Thud was faster, and top USAF MiG killer until F-4 took over, itty bitty wings, poor turning performance and all.

[SuperFlanker35]

Nice one. But the A-4 did get a kill in Vietnam, but that was with a Zuni Rocket.

[fightertammer]

nha nha nhaaa.... its pretty cool

[tylerwilliams14]

ive seen this episode that was the fiirst air kill of the vietnam war

[biukucanoe]

hmm, wonder if I should do some more stories....

[matthewmalinab]

lmao u should do more of these

[biukucanoe]

I got in mind doing tall tales based on McCain's adventure on the Forrestal (F-4 vs Skyhawk) and getting shot down by Jane Fonda.

[WarthogL2]

Haha. This was actually pretty funny.

[DaScatman]

Good god, that's fancy. That musta cost lots of cash!

[glassoid]

Damnit I LoL'd

[boludopata]

good plan !!!

[the404s]

The special effects are too difficult to follow! You've gone all LUCAS on us, man!

[Cancun771]

Ace in a single mission! LOOOOL

[bofts]

Ace is 5 kills

[Darkhunter213]

Superb, detailed reenactment. A+

[Bill1275w]

Why did you have to go all high tech on us?