Notre Dame de Paris Vierne Plays Vierne (2) Pipe Organ

[virginiaorganbuilder]

There's something about the poor sound quality and distant sound of this recording that makes it irresistible.  It's like listening to the past through a long tube, and the fact that it's Vierne himself makes it even more mysterious and wonderful.

[Markmusicusorganist]

Dear sir, madam,

With joy I found this video.

I placed a link into my weblog (blog) about musical instruments.

Would you be so kind and keep this video available on youtube?

Please do not remove it.

Thanks for posting.

Mark Kuijpers, musician, organist, author

[a55b47]

@Markmusicusorganist , Thank you for your interest. It's perfectly OK to link to your blog. The more people hear great organ music, the better ;-)

[bhuman123]

Do we know what Duruffle catogrised this piece in?

[BaronLoveburned]

Got any Bach playing Bach!

[graant71]

to a55b47: you can find this recording in EMI Classics box set "Composers in person" EMI 175752B (22 CDs). There was another box set but I believe it's no longer available: "Orgues et organistes françaises du XXème siècle" all focused on organ recordings EMI : 5 74866 2 (5 CDs).

[graant71]

hey people!, we have the privilege to hear Louis Vierne himself playing his own work on Notre-Dame's organ, and all you're talking about is elecrified consoles... hang on, and just enjoy the music, please!

[meklopfklopf]

Brilliant ! Thank you for posting this video !

[gerardbedecarter]

Thank you so much for posting this wonderful historical recording!  A beautiful piece of music!

[MrABBOHLER]

Quelle poésie tout de même! Vraiment du grand art pour faire cela en direct... Un raffinement qui n'est pas de facade en tous cas, et qui ne cherche pas à en mettre plein les oreilles et plein la vue par la virtuosité! Bref voilà oeuvre éphémère d'un musicien, tout simplement!

[Sinatra70]

Can anyone provide us with the information on where we might find a CD of this piece? I have one album of Widor, Dupre and Vierne performing their own works, but this is not included.

[a55b47]

I got this recording from an old boxed EMI LP set called French Organs & Organists: 1930. I bought the set about 30 years ago, & converted everything on it to CD several years ago -- when my turntable started giving me problems & I thought I'd better convert before I couldn't play the LP's any more ;-). I seem to recall seeing a CD set advertised on a European web site about a year ago, but I don't think it's ever been imported to the US.

[russedav5]

@a55b47

Thank you! Help, please and tell me how you converted your LPs to CD since I don't dare play them anymore and I'd love to, gems that some of them are, Marcel Dupré, Anton Heiller, etc. Please email me if you know how to convert: russedav@praize.com Thanks again, Russ Davis

[Streetcar1743]

I love Vierne's music. He wrote quite a few meditation like pieces. Including this one. He also wrote Bercuse. One of my favorites that was written by him.

[advisorC101]

It makes me cry. We know that Vierne spoke to the world through his music.

I can't imagine what must have possessed him to write such frighting pieces such as the Symphonie no. 3 Allegro maestoso.....

He lost so much but I think gained the whole world when he fell asleep at his great organ in 1937 which has now been so hideously mutilated.

I think the best thing we can do for him is never forget him as one of the greatest organists of our history.

[polsterj]

This piece is so wonderful! Thank god that this was recorded and trancribed later!

[passacaglia28]

Very beautiful. Very tranquil. Leave it to the King Of Instruments to go from a hauntingly beautiful, earth-trembling sound to this - something that would gently put an infant to sleep. What a beautiful piece. I also love Berceuse for the same reason.

[gerdi911]

Ich kriege eine Gänsehaut,wenn ich meinen Lieblingskomponisten höre; und das vor 90 Jahren!!!

[organman52]

TO a55b47 - I have the solution - we should come back in around 1870 and live until around 1940. How does that sound?

[organman52]

My blunder - I just read the commentary on the upper right corner only to discover that he did in fact improvise this. Just leave it to the great Durufle to copy it down from the recording. As you probably are aware, he did this a lot with the improvisations of Tournemire - another unsurpassed genius. I hope in my next life I emerge into late 19th/early 20th century Paris.

[a55b47]

I can't decide whether i'd rather come back to Paris in La Belle Epoque or in the late-20's to mid-30's. Tough choice ;-)

[organman52]

Hearing the master himself playing this exquisite piece is as though he is improvising it on the spot. He probably did exactly that, and then later committed it to manuscript paper. This was a man with a beautiful soul.

[polsterj]

The original Cavaillé-Coll-organ was the best instrument Notre-Dame ever had!

Wonderful to hear the great L. Vierne playing his instrument.

[all1rog]

The crackles are less in evidence, on this recording. Vierne's music is often technically very challenging, so it is good to hear the composer himself performing it.

[a55b47]

One. The recording was made 80 years ago. Two. This particular iteration of the recording was taken from an old LP of mine that travelled around during my many moves over a span of about 30 years. The fact that it survived at all is a miracle. Three. I don't have the software.

[FromHolbergsTime]

Diaphanous, ethereal and wholly sublime.

[a55b47]

Send me a Message (not on here -- via the Send a Message mechanism on my A55B47 page) with your e-mail address. I'll see what I can do.

[Organistabrasileiro]

Is it possible to get the record of this recording?

[bachprofessore]

This has been my favourite piece since I first heard it on a 1999 Rieger-Organ.

I would be interested how it sounds on a southern-german baroque organ like weingarten.

[kloppiej]

Beautiful, thanks for posting

[Imperatormudi]

very intresting!

[codeman2008]

This is one of the most beautiful pieces I've ever heard. I'll bet this would sound wonderful in the accoustics of Liverpool Cathedral or Saint John the Divine!

[iamrepete]

There was a recording at St.John the Divine by Marsha Heather Long,now out of print.I should try posting it,perhaps with a slide show?

[iamrepete]

I read "Meditation" was actually an improvisation created in 1930 at Notre Dame de Paris during a mass...could be it was a year earlier,regardless,it is a gift from M.Vierne. Thank you!

[a55b47]

I expect, if you're improvising at 2 or 3 services every Sunday for a couple of decades, some of the ideas are bound to be duplicative ;-). The dates on these recordings are somewhat nebulous as they fade back into ths mists of time: it's possible he could have recorded it in 1930.

[heimarco]

il registro nella parte finale ha un suono bellissimo...grazie

[spootyrat]

Absolutely wonderful, thanks so much!

[Jsbfugue1]

Is the music of this Meditation available? Was it transcribed?

[golgiapp]

Yes, it was transcribed by Maurice Duruflé in the 1950's and is published by Durand of Paris along with transcriptions of Vierne's two other recorded improvisations, 'Marche épiscopale' and 'Cortège', the latter being the easiest of the three to play.

[golgiapp]

Haunting, wistful, yearning, imploring... yet suffused with a strange and beautiful sweetness -uniquely VIERNE.

[Streetcar1743]

Now I got to see the true console that was there until they replaced it with a modern digital console.

[Fozzymaple]

I think the Cavaille-Coll console is much classier than the digital console that is there now. The original Cavaille-Coll console is so French, and the new console there is so British looking, it is just not as cool as the Cavaille Coll console, which has a much more interesting history, too, I mean, after all, the Cavaille Coll console is the console at which Louis Vierne died.

[Brandotuomikoski]

the console is still in exsistance, its in the museum, next to the cathedral.

Vierne died on the organ?

[marsvltor2]

Tormus 1 has a very nice photographic guidebook to Notre-Dame here on YouTube. On it are some very interesting photographs of the original C-C console. It does look very 'eery' though.

Regards,

Paul :-)

[and3583]

Yes, Vierne died at his beloved instrument.

[menschmaschine5]

However, there's something to be said for ease of use... The original console certainly has more personality and more history, but I'd imagine the current console is much easier to navigate.

[advisorC101]

The original console was a unique, hand crafted work of art that gave the organist a direct connection with their instrument. Where Louis Vierne took his last breaths, played his final notes and heard this Cavaille-Coll for the last time. Now what have they done with it? They've replaced it with a hideous everyday electric console; robbed it of it's natural, warm Cavaille-Coll characteristics and revoiced the whole organ into something with more "bite". Just because they had different tastes..

[advisorC101]

Just because of that one little matter of "personal taste", This generation of organists will never have the chance to hear and feel what was once the mighty Cavaille-Coll organ of Notre Dame de Paris. All it needed was tender loving care.

[menschmaschine5]

Actually, Vierne wanted an electric console ever since he toured the US, but was denied it due to someone turning away the Skinner inspector at the door. Vierne was very close to having Skinner restore the Notre Dame organ, which was nearly unplayable at the time due to damage. Also, Ventils are pretty clumsy and don't lend themselves to the full expressive possibilities that pistons do. Would you rather have a notched swell pedal as well instead of a balanced one?

[menschmaschine5]

the organ was changed from its original because it was unplayable. Mutin, the first builder to restore it after the flood and subsequent bombing, may have changed some things (and indeed, Vierne wanted Gonzalez to do it when the time for a restoration finally came, well after his deal with Skinner). Vierne also had a list of additions to make to the organ, among which were the En Chamades, which would have been installed if Gonzalez had done the restoration instead of Mutin.

[advisorC101]

I fully understand that, but it doesn't really matter what Vierne wanted. All the organ needed was for someone to preserve it in it's natural condition, not to modify it. What they did to it is something that I do not consider a restoration, more like a mutilation. One doesn't realize what they've lost until at least much much later in life. Look at the Baroque organs that the Romantics just mindlessly modified, today we're all about restoring them to their natural form.

[menschmaschine5]

While some tonal modifications were perhaps undesirable, I really have no problem with the console switch. Modern consoles allow for much more freedom of expression, and pistons are a logical successor to Cavaille Coll's ventils. It's nice that some organs like Saint Sulpice still have the Cavaille consoles, but really it's a clumsy and limited way to create a crescendo. If Cavaille Coll could, I'm sure he would have used pistons in his consoles.

[advisorC101]

I disagree with you COMPLETELY.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 That's fine, I'm not trying to tell you that you can't disagree with me. However, I for one can say that I vastly prefer organs with electronic stop action and pistons (tracker or not) to organs with fewer color possibilities. Not that I advocate what Widor called the "magic lantern", but being able to change it's nice to be able to change registrations in a simple manner.

[advisorC101]

I prefer organs that make me feel like I'm playing an actual musical instrument and not an electronic toy. The Notre-Dame CC organ in its original specification sings much better than the current metal monster which is only loud.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 Oh certainly, I was speaking only of the console, not the tonal modifications.

[advisorC101]

I was speaking about BOTH.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 Well then we disagree. Simple as that. You're not going to convince me that your viewpoint is the only correct one.

[advisorC101]

And you Sir have no idea how wrong you are.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 Well then explain to me how wrong I am. It seem sto me that it's a matter of preference, as I am quite well informed about the French organ tradition, and am generally against using antiquated technology. Why use a notched swell pedal when you can use a balanced one? Similarly, why use ventils when you can use pistons?

[advisorC101]

Furthermore, mechanical organs are what determine the difference between mediocre and CHAMPION organists.

[menschmaschine5]

So what you're saying is that since a good organist should be able to make a mechanical organ sound good, mechanical organs should be the only ones to exist? One shouldn't even be able to change to a completely different combination at the push of a button? There is nothing wrong with honoring the past, in fact it's a good thing, but you seem to be of the camp that does so to the exclusion of progress. Perhaps the old console should have been retained, an an electronic one created in addition.

[advisorC101]

You have TOTALLY misconstrued my comment.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 In that case, your comment has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Yes, a good organist should be able to play on whatever type of console presented, but what does that have to do with what we're debating?

[advisorC101]

Wrong.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 I asked a question, and "wrong" is not a valid answer to that question.

[menschmaschine5]

Furthermore, I see no reason for you to personally insult me by calling me ignorant. I am informed about historical organ building, and what modern musicians view as correct performance practice, thank you very much.

[advisorC101]

You have no idea how incorrect you are. Once again you have completely misunderstood.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 So disagreement with your views is ignorance, then? Explain to me exactly how I am objectively incorrect please.

[advisorC101]

It's hardly worth my time. And once again, WRONG.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 So now you're acting childish.

[advisorC101]

Wrong again. But I am acting out of impulse.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 Why do that when you can present your views in a logical manner? You may have some valid things to say and I might be interested in reading them. Instead, you seem to be getting angry at the slightest disagreement with your views.

[advisorC101]

Again, incorrect. I have time and time again had this worthless debate with modernists. First of all, you are the one that went off topic by insinuating that I have a problem with modern organ building. I don't. I only have a problem with the perverting and mutilating of instruments that are of an older nature.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 However, I'm saying that I don't view electrifying the console as mutilation of the instrument, and you disagreed with me. I completely agree with you in saying that the tonal changes that the organ underwent should not have happened, and, if anything, stops could have been added instead of changed completely. Many great organists and organist/composers wished for small changes in their instrument, Vierne included. The problem here is that they were turned into big changes.

[advisorC101]

Again, it's totally pointless talking to you. You'll never understand why it's so important to preserve an instrument in its original condition. Modernists always think they can do things better.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 I'm curious to see whetherr you'd be against adding an electrified console, not in place of, but in addition to the old one.

[advisorC101]

Didn't you hear me? Total-original-condition, no alterations.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 I view that as a bit impractical. Should the blowers, then, not have been electrified? Should Cavaille Coll have restored what he could of the extant organ instead of revoicing and expanding it?

[advisorC101]

Impractical is only your interpretation of it. Like I said, it's pointless carrying on with this debate. There is an even greater irony at hand here, and that is how someone like myself hypocritically accepts an organ like the one at St. Sulpice for what it is today, seeing as CC had to rebuild the earlier organ. The same goes for what happened at NDP, and it's even worse that they've now gone and done it again.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 Well that was my point, really. So it all boils down to a matter of taste. The Cavaille Colls were/are masterpieces, though, there's no denying that.

[advisorC101]

The whole problem is taste.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 Yes. Had Cavaille Coll not altered the extant organs at some of these churches, an excellent school of organ playing and composing would never have existed. Similarly, if not for the organ at Trinity sounding the way it was, alterations and all, Messiaen would not have written his fantastic organ compositions. Same with St. Etienne du Mont and Durufle (although I happen to think that St. Etienne is very nice instrument).

[advisorC101]

Yes, that's true. But I wouldn't say that it would not have existed, only not how we know it today. If Bach were able to play CC organs, then the music he wrote would have been very different.

[menschmaschine5]

@advisorC101 You have a point, but to take Messiaen aas an example, the organ he used was a big inspiration for his compositions, both for the organ and for other instruments. He would have been a completely different composer without it. Point being, some change is good. Change for the sake of change, however, is not.

[advisorC101]

I think that Messiaen had the natural presets to create music as he did, again there is another nuanced issue we probably won't see eye to eye with. But the modern instruments have definitely had a huge say in the matter. Widor would not have wrote the same symphonies for organ, if it had not been for the CC organ of St. Sulpice.

[willowthebored]

@menschmaschine5

While it's certainly true that the organ was at the time unplayable, I think calling ventils 'clumsy' is a major overstatement. The ventil allows, for all effects and purposes, almost the same control as a piston. A skilled organist should be able to work the ventil into his registration exactly as he should a normal instrument. Unless, of course, you mean an electropneumatic chest or a direct electric chest, which, it should be known, none of the electrified CC organs have.

[menschmaschine5]

@willowthebored While Ventils are an effeective way of expression, Pistons certainly do afford greater freedom. The French organists who toured the US when Skinner began building electropneumatic consoles with pistons, they raved about the possibilities these things afforded. There are many things you cannot do with ventils. You can turn the reeds on and off easily, but you can't switch from a reed chorus to a solo reed unless you have a free hand.

[willowthebored]

@menschmaschine5

This is true. However, hindsight is said to offer 20/20 vision, as it were. Were you the organist of Notre Dame today would you choose to electrify the entire action and neoclassicize the instrument as has been done? Is it worth compromising the historical value of the instrument and its console for ease of playing? Besides, surely on such a large instrument one could find another solo reed on a different division to use instead (or have one's registrar swap it out).

[menschmaschine5]

@willowthebored The whole point of combination action is that you don't need a registrant. And I certainly would not have re-voiced the instrument, maybe just added a few ranks (such as the ones Vierne wanted), and perhaps the electric console could have been in addition to the old Cavaille one rather than instead. However, the Cavaille one was also altered in the 1932 restoration to include, among other things, a balanced swell pedal.

[JSP3091]

This is *so* beautiful...I'm speechless and on the verge of tears. Thank you for posting this slice of eternal bliss.

[browndogoffroad]

One can only dream of the stunning music rolling around in Vierne's mind that never made it to a keyboard. Heavenly.

[0herson0]

I was at an organ concert in October that presented the works of Vierne, in addition to Widor. It was one of the most memorable events in my visit to Paris.

[a55b47]

Romantic French music on a French organ in a French church, then maybe a nice leisurely meal at a Parisian bistro ....my idea of heaven ;-)

[0herson0]

Which is exactly what we did afterward...and on

the Boulevard St. Germain!

[kunstderfuge]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! A bygone era comes to life with this posting, full of mysterious and exotic nuances. You've made a great contribution here. Yes, I'd like to hear Marchal and Corrette, too.

[a55b47]

Thanks for your encouragement. I'm working on some performances from Chartres Cathedral right now. I think Marchal & Commette will come a little later. One problem with their recordings is that the sound quality is much worse than that on the Widor & Vierne & Tournemire.

[joenwayne]

You are doing such a great service for all of us who love the pipe organ with these wonderful historical posts. Thank you!

[a55b47]

Thanks. I'm rapidly running out, though. Unless you want to hear folks like Edouard Corrette & Andre Marchal ;-).

[joenwayne]

They are part of "l'histoire d'orgue" - looking forward to it.