I'm an IBO on Amway with plenty of information to offer, i'll walk you through anything whether you sign up as a customer of mine or join my business or nothing at all. i'll help you through it :)
“Take care, & be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”Lk12:15 "...I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content."Phil4:11 "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils...1Tim6:10
Amway is often promoted as an opportunity to run your own business, but in reality it is not really free enterprise. Nobody can kick you out of a business that is truly your own. I run a consultancy, and nobody has that control over me (and nobody wants me to be religious)!
In his online book "Merchants of Deception", former Quixtar IBO Eric Scheibeler stated that he and his family received death threats from his uplines during a business meeting and from an anonymous phone call. In July 2007, Scheibeler wrote a letter to an attorney for Amway and Quixtar clarifying among other things that, to his knowledge, Doug DeVos or Amway/Quixtar employees never made any death threats to him. From Wikipedia. So Sheibeler never lied right?
Wikipedia is your iron-clad source? You should google "Eric Scheibeler clarification". You can find the actual text of his clarification, which said "I did not receive a death threat from Amway or Mr. Devos". A few lines later he says "As I indicated in my book, Merchants of Deception...I was threatened by an Amway distributor".
He never lied, nor did he admit to lying. Amway bullied him into "clarifying" it wasn't corporate who threatened him. Scheibeler never claimed corporate did.
@JohnWDB1 Yeah man, the internet is chock full of lies. And yet somehow you don't believe an unbiased information source such as wikipedia, but you believe Eric Sheibeler. And you say you are not disillusioned.
"And yet somehow you don't believe an unbiased information source such as wikipedia, but you believe Eric Sheibeler"
This isn't a question of who we'd rather believe. We don't have to "believe Wikipedia". We can actually find the clarification letter and verify for ourselves. I can't believe how stupid you are.
You'd rather "believe Wikipedia" even though it's clearly wrong on this fact because it is in line with what you'd like to be true. Even when the facts are made plain for you, you'd rather go on believing an error. It is futile to argue with such a person, because it doesn't matter how compelling an argument you make--they'll just shrug off sense and reason in favor of slogans and stock-phrases. Good job mate--you're fully indoctrinated in this cult!
@JohnWDB1 You don't see any hipocrasy in what you are saying? Let's be adults ok FOR ONCE. Can you please tell me how much a diamond makes in Amway, if you don't know it's fine. But I would like to see if you know.
That's not how hypocrisy is spelled. Average diamond income in certain years can be found on many websites. This figure is not the same as what a diamond "makes" for several reasons. 1) Expenses aren't included. 2) profits from tool sales (which become quite significant at this level) aren't included.
Now, please go back and answer the countless questions I've posed to you that you've conveniently ignored, such as "what incentive would Scheibeler have to lie".
@JohnWDB1 Excluding the OPTIONAL expenses and excluding tool sales, what does a diamond make? Sounds like to me you don't have the slightest idea of the compensation plan or bonus structure. You sure as hell won't find it from Eric's book. You can find it on Amway.com. When you first get around the business you are given a sheet with the exact figures on them. That's not what Eric tells you, "oh we weren't told the numbers but we just went with it cuz we'd get rich" The guy plays..
"Sounds like to me you don't have the slightest idea of the compensation plan or bonus structure."
How could I quote you the average Emerald income for a given year without also knowing average Diamond income? You just can't reason. You show it over and over. You're overmatched here, bub, and you just keep showing that you don't know how to think.
@JohnWDB1 stupid, or maybe he really was that dumb. But how can you be in a business for nearly ten years and have absolutely no idea of what to expect from the amount of income you'll make at certain levels... You seriously buy that story. The guy is an idiot or a lier. "We got our check and we were shocked, only $64!" What a crock of shit. You will know what you make if you spend more than 5 minutes on Amway.com This is not difficult John, you can find it if you try.
@JohnWDB1 I honestly don't know. Perhaps he did something he wasn't supposed to be doing in the company, got kicked out and now is getting back at them by writing a book and trying to sue? He could have a million personal reasons. I don't know what it is. But you'd be a fool to read his book just shake your head up and down all the way through it without questioning the veracity of his statements.
"Perhaps he did something he wasn't supposed to be doing in the company, got kicked out and now is getting back at them by writing a book and trying to sue?"
In other words, he has no clear motive, and you can only come up with implausible reasons.
"But you'd be a fool to read his book just shake your head up and down all the way through it without questioning the veracity of his statements."
There are countless similar stories to Scheibeler's. You'd be a fool to ignore them.
"Give us a true reason why we should believe JohnWDB1 instead of Amway!"
I've never asked that you believe me. I ask that you verify the facts for yourself. Scheibeler's statement may be read online. He affirms that no amway corporate employee threatened him, but he had never claimed they did, though. An amway IBO threatened him.
If you were interested in truth, and not propaganda, you would already know this fact. Cult apologetics are time consuming, though, I'm sure.
The simple act of you talking to someone, implies that at some level you expect to be believed.
'I ask that you verify the facts for yourself. Scheibeler's statement may be read online.'
I already did that with the Better Business Bureau and the Direct Selling Association. They told me what I needed to know so to have peace of mind. They are official sources. Erik Scheibeler is not. Case closed!
for your info look up rich Devos "Directly speaking " audio file 1983 about the problems known about since approx 1980 coming to a head in 1983. Rich Devos addresses Direct Distributors about abuses by leading distributors and abuses of distributors and the gaze of govt upon Amway Corp. Worth your time to listen to the Co founder and CEO at the time detail the problems of how the business is being presented and the action need to put things back on the right road. Enlightening stuff
That's how i sell potatoes.I order them from the market than i call my friends and tell them about my GREAT potatoes and sell them at a price 10 times higher then i buy them.I made millions with that.In the end i only have to convince them that if they also sell potatoes at this price to THEIR friends,they will get serious money,wich is true.They only have to think positive and if they can't sell them the foult is theirs because they are not good sales-personalities.
@freedomofthinking Selling potatoes and selling some of the best health products in the world is like comparing potatoes to... well... vitamins. And I sell all my stuff to my friends for the same price I buy them... I make no retail profit.. the potato farm just gives me bonus checks for moving enough potatoes. So what are you talking about exactly?
@PokerorDie Potatoes contain a lot of natural vitamins.Most of them are Vitamin B in purest form.Of course you sell your friends at the price you buy them.Only the price you buy them is very high comparing to other products on the market.In my comparation the "market" is the lab,me =amway and my friends are the people like you who work for amway.Now is more clear?
@freedomofthinking Yes I can buy one ply toilet paper from walmart and buy 3 ply from Amway. Which one costs more. If something from Amway costs more (for an IBO) it's usually because either A. It's concentrated. B. Its better quality. Besides, it's not difficult to get 3, 6 and even 9 percent compesation if you try, therefore everything you buy is even cheaper.
Ah, the miracle of concentration. Isn't that how they've managed to convince their glib, hopeful, irreparably bemused followers that Amway products don't, in actuality cost more???
Nearly every price comparison has found that Amway products cost 60% more even AFTER you account for wholesale "discounts". Very few of these products were *concentrated*, but in cases they were, they are compared with comparable concentrates.
In many cases, Amway products are brand-name products sold in identical quantities at Costco. If you really want to know the truth, start with Progresso soups. There are scads of other examples.
In cases when products are Amway brands, they are compared in cost-comparisons NOT with generic but with LEADING BRANDS. Think Amway products are superior to leading brands? Consumer Reports sure don't. Amway has performed average to below in those nearly every time.
@JohnWDB1 You are kidding right? Amway's products have won numerous awards, just go look on wikipedia for that information: In 2006 eSpring was named Product of the Year by the Poland-based non-profit World Foundation of Health, Heart and Mind.eSpring has won numerous Gold and Platinum awards in the Reader's Digest Most Trusted Brand Asia surveys. Same goes for Nutrilite.
@JohnWDB1 Also, you are right, Amway's products are brand name products. They have over 600 parter stores, (best buy Kmart etc.) I can buy "progresso" through my website, and either get a discount for PV for my business for being a parter to the company. Some stuff's offer disounts (day's inn) for example, others offer volume for your business. Some offer both. How is this a bad thing, Amazon does the same thing.
Notice how I told you to start with Progresso soups, but you refused to check the prices on your own. Instead, you said "that's right" as if somehow it helped to strengthen your case that Amway inflates prices on name brand products. Here's the comparison between what Amway charges you and what Costco charges you for 8 19oz cans of soup: Amway: 19.99, costco: 11.99.
Next look up Red Bull and compare it vs costco (or even a gas station for that matter)
OK, that one was my bad. Amway doesn't sell Red Bull. Made a mistake. But, please address the fact that the common brands (Progresso) that Amway does sell are inflated nearly 100% in price. You are still ignoring that damning fact.
@JohnWDB1 I personally don't buy food from Amway. You are right the majority of food items are higher than at a wal mart or costco. The products I do buy are usually personal care products and nutrilite products including XS energy drink. Not everything is cheaper through amway, but i do save money on alot of things i already purchase. Plus the bonus kickback you get is something that you can't get anywhere else.
Most Amway recruits are told that they will SAVE money by joining. They're told they will start saving up to $100 per month right away. This has been called "the little white lie of Amway". It's a minor but insidious lie, as it's the hook that catches fish up front.
If you find out and confront them, they'll side step and say something like "well, not everything is cheaper through Amway". My look--you've just said it. They've taught you well.
The "savings" pitch is standard. They start with a $300 basket of purchases (to theoretically get 100 PV). Then they say "what if you save 30% of that???" This is the "savings" you get off retail by joining as an IBO. That's 90 bucks. Then they figure you get a 3% "kickback" on your overpriced purchase (roughly 10 bucks) and add it together.
I wouldn't be surprised if many people joined Amway without getting this pitch, but it is more common than not.
@JohnWDB1 So who told you that? or did you read that somewhere.... also, let's supposed he told you that you'd be a billionaire. It's not relevant in my opinion. I don't make my decisions to join this business off of what an IBO tells me. I go off the business rules of conduct and regulations standards that comes directly from Amway. I don't judge this business off of what 1 IBO says.
Why is it that you think what you've been told by upline, who seeks to make money from your effort, is infallible truth, yet what I've learned, through whatever sources, is lies and fabrication? Something seem amiss to you? I've been researching this business for 9 years. You've just begun. You haven't read Eric Scheibeler's "Merchants of Deception". You're too lazy to apply due diligence. You'd rather swallow whole the empty promises of upline, hoping you'll get rich in the end.
@JohnWDB1 I haven't read Merchants of Deception? By Eric Scheibeler? Now whose making claims that aren't true. Eric Scheiberler the guy who lied in court, who ADMITTED to lying. Yeah I read that guy's book dont worry. You've studied a business for 9 years and yet you are wrong on so many different levels. Once again, you can't speak from experience. And it's not what i've been told by my upline. I already told, but i'll say it again. It does not matter to me what an IBO says.
2) Eric Scheibeler didn't lie in court, nor did he admit to lying.
3) The claim that Scheibeler lied is circulated throughout the IBO ranks to discredit yet another critic
4) The "clarification" that Scheibeler submitted was under threat of law suits which he could ill-afford. Amway loves to silence its critics with lawsuits that bankrupt them. That's why it takes monster class-action suits to take them on.
@JohnWDB1 Sheibeler claimed he made 20k a year as a diamond. LEGALLY that's impossible. Amway would have been shut down many many years ago. You make more money than that as a platinum. They are legally bound to those numbers. The comapny would have been shut down long ago don't you think? Sheibeler was a lier. He claimed he was "brainwashed" by the CDs & tapes and couldn't think clearly until months after he stopped listening to them. That he was under "MIND CONTROL".
Scheibeler never made diamond, nor did he ever claim he made diamond. You obviously didn't read the book. Stop lying. It's pathetic.
He only made emerald. He claimed he made $34K profit as an emerald. That is highly plausible since bonuses could easily be in the 60K range for an emerald and expenses with his level of travel could easily be 25K.
Amway isn't "legally bound" to any numbers. They reported what the average platinum, emerald, and diamond made in a given year.
@JohnWDB1 I read the book man, I said diamond. I meant emerald. My mistake. His upline were karry or kathy and Chris. Pretty sure his diamonds were Zach and don't know their last names or his wifes name.
His upline diamond was Fred Harteis. Anybody who actually read the book would know that. He used aliases in the book, but if you frantically went to look it up when I asked, you wouldn't know that fact.
@JohnWDB1 I know he used Aliases because he said he did in the first few pages of the book. He said he used aliases to protect the names of his friends or whatever. Listen to you. You are incredibly disillusioned, telling me that I haven't read that book. The majority of your money after reaching platinum comes from your annual bonus. As you reach higher pins, you get a larger bonus every year.
Disillusioned? You're the one who finds Merchants of Deception so damning that the only defense you can muster is to insist it's all lies. Think for just a moment--I know it's hard for you. 1) What incentive would Scheibeler have to lie? 2) Even if Scheibeler did lie, why are there countless other horror stories about Amway and why are they *so similar*?
Only a cult mindset attempts to discredit all critics as liars, losers, and the disillusioned instead of facing the content
@JohnWDB1 Amway does promise a certain level of income from Pin levels in the form of bonus checks, which are very large at the higher pin levels. Also, in order to reach those pin levels you will have to have a certain amount of volume moving through your business anyway. So realistically there is no way you can become a broke emerald, unless you blow your money like a dumbass.
"So realistically there is no way you can become a broke emerald, unless you blow your money like a dumbass."
Actually, the only way you will avoid being a broke emerald is if you get a generous cut of the tools that are sold to your downline. And reaching Emerald is something that only somewhere around 1 in 10,000 ever do. Whoopie! Where do I sign up so I can get started lying to people about income potential, all the while bilking them for CD and book sales???
@JohnWDB1 Yeah I read the book man. Just because I looked deeper than that, deeper than you did doesn't mean I didn't read it. All i know is legally you will make more than 20k as a diamond. Lol Amway would have been shut down decades ago if they didn't. It's in the fucking fine print why don't you read it. Legally they have to pay you what they say they will pay you. What AMWAY says, not some fucking IBO.
There is wide variation in the earnings per pin level depending on the structure of your downline. Amway doesn't promise they will pay you what the average platinum made in a given year. There's probably greater than a 50% chance you'll make below that average (assuming a right skewed distribution where median is less than mean). The more you speak, the more you expose yourself as ignorant.
@JohnWDB1 There are wide variations in the earning per pin level, that's correct; however, the bare miniumum a plantinum makes is about 30k a year, not including the Q-12 bonus. Your pay is based on a percentage of volume you move through the business. The more volume, the higher the percentage. Those numbers aren't guesstimates or averages or hidden from Amway distributors, it's for anyone to view. Would you like me to tell you specific numbers?
@JohnWDB1 Being a platinum means having a group total of 7500 PV. You are now earning 25% compensation of 21,750 BV. That's a total of 3,326.30. That's the absolute minimum running precisely 7500 PV. I was never told averages on anything, I don't even know what the averages are. I was given precise base earnings for each pin level + the various bonuses for reaching those marks. So tell me, how did Eric make only 30k a year as an emerald?
Are you serious? I already told you how Eric could make 34K as an Emerald. In 2003, which was his last year in Quixtar, the average Emerald's income was $69K. Eric could've easily had 60K in revenue and 25K in expenses, coming out to roughly 35K.
You and your fanatical brethren are so ill-equipped to be businessmen that you don't understand the difference between revenues and what you "make", aka "profits". But that's no surprise. You'd like to think a 3% "rebate" is earnings
@JohnWDB1 You don't have any expenses though. Your profits are just that... PROFITS. If you are stupid enough like Eric to spend money you don't have then whose fault is that?
Boy they've brainwashed you good. You don't think Eric Scheibeler had expenses? You think you can show the plan 5 nights a week, driving up to 100 miles one way, hire sitters for all that time for your kids, buy CD's and books weekly, and fly to seminars and functions (paying airfare, cab, hotel, and sitters for the time) FOR FREE? Man, your understanding of finances is so excellent that I wish I could hire you to run my business!
@JohnWDB1 Buying CD's is optional, in case you forgot. Going to functions and seminars.. also optional. Your spouse can watch your kids while you go show the plan. I'm pretty sure those expenses spent on driving are not part of the "scam", unless Amway owns Exxon or something. Since you are so incredibly smart, tell me. What is the minimum amount an emerald makes?
"I'm pretty sure those expenses spent on driving are not part of the "scam", unless Amway owns Exxon or something."
Amway is not a scam. The scam that Amway is associated with is the Amway Motivational Organizations (AMO), where sale of motivational "tools" by kingpins to downline with escalating "breaks" at each big pin level provides the wide majority of income to diamond level and above. This second business is an illegal pyramid scheme, and the UK courts have recognized this
@JohnWDB1 Ummm, so don't buy the CDs... how hard is that. Wow look at that man problem solved. Don't waste your money on CDs if you can't afford it. Buying the CD's is encouraged as motivational tools and so are the books (All the books are from non-amway affiliated sources). They do offer inspiration and great motivation and knowledge about how to succeed in the business. Like I said before, Amway makes money if you WIN, not if you fail.
@JohnWDB1 It's a bunch of garbage your recycling man. All you are doing is quoting Eric Sheibelers book like it's your bible. you are not even thinking for yourself. You just keep on regurgitating what you think you know. I can personally tell you from experience, that Eric's book is layered with misinformation, exaggerations, and just plain old blatent lies.
@JohnWDB1 Not being involved in the company and having read that book however... It is VERY convincing, you think you have just been told some secret information that nobody else knows. You think you have all the facts, but really you have never been involved in the company. You dont REALLY know if what Eric Sheibeler says is true... do you? No you don't, that knowledge can only be gained from personal experience, soemthing you don't have.
"you think you have just been told some secret information that nobody else knows."
Why would I think that? The information is out there for anyone who seeks it.
"You dont REALLY know if what Eric Sheibeler says is true... do you?"
His story is eerily similar to countless other stories about Amway. They can't all be lying. Also, why would he have incentive to lie? He stood to gain nothing from it.
@JohnWDB1 Ray Croc has people slaving away doing all the work while he sits around and makes millions yes? But is he viewed as a scam artist or slave owner? No, he's viewed as a business owner. He build a system and now he sits and gets rich off of other peoples hard work.
"Ray Croc has people slaving away doing all the work while he sits around and makes millions yes?"
Look how the Ambot so faithfully spouts the slogans he was taught by upline! They were using the Ray Croc example back in 2002 when I first began studying this cult.
There's no point in carving up your shallow logic here. Visit my blog--google Ambot.0 if you want to see my response to this type of retort (comparing other corporations or the government to pyramid schemes)
"No you don't, that knowledge can only be gained from personal experience, soemthing you don't have."
Actually 95% or more of what you know isn't gained from personal experience. You didn't live through the Civil War, but you believe it happened. You haven't ever seen an atom, but you believe all matter is composed of them. You believe everything your upline tells you, including that CD's are the key to success....and they DO have incentive to lie to you.
@JohnWDB1 I'm talking about experience, not what my upline tells me. That's something i have and you don't. I can speak from my own personal experience on something which you cannot.
Yes, they realize THEY are making shit, but because "crosstalk" is so vehemently discouraged, they don't realize that EVERYONE ELSE is also making shit in that stadium. It's like the emperor's new clothes. As long as everyone keeps quiet, each person feels alone in his failure and assumes it is his own short-comings that have made it so.
@JohnWDB1 Dude, you are so fuckin lost it's not even funny. You act like they don't discuss failure rates in this business and how many people give up and fall out. Lol EVERYONE knows because they are told! I was told by my platinum that I'd probably lose my first eagleship, (meaning 6 people). How is that for deceitful words of encouragement? You have been told so much non sense by stupid bloggers and failures and you never listen to people actually involved.
"Dude, you are so fuckin lost it's not even funny."
Says the cult member to the outsider. How typical.
"You act like they don't discuss failure rates in this business"
When did I claim they don't discuss failure? In fact, scaring the bejeezus out of your cult followers on the prospect of failure or quitting is a necessary part of the control paradigm. Always speak of people who've left in a harsh way, so existing members will be afraid of leaving themselves.
See that's whats bullshit. If they don't talk about the rate of failure you label as lying scam artists who don't inform their members of the facts. But if they do you those numbers, now they are doing it as part of the "control paradigm." Listen to yourself. You argue everything, regardless. This is pointless if that's all you can do.
The problem is you think too concretely to understand. The world isn't black-and-white, friend. Your upline leaders DO talk about failure, but they don't do it honestly. Nobody in Amway mentions that the average ACTIVE IBO loses money or that there is a 70% annual attrition rate in the US or that the bottom 99% lose money. When they talk about failure, they do it this way: "there's a 100% success rate in the system and 0% outside it". Oh, then I guess you better get on std order!
@JohnWDB1 HOW do you know this exactly? You said you've never been involved in the business correct? How the fuck do you know that's whats i was told. There are enough judgemental know it all pricks and I've heard all of these things before from people like you, but from nobody in my upline. 100% success rate and 0 outside it? Who in my upline said, go ahead and tell because apparently i'm too dumb to remember ever hearing that spheel
I don't know what you were told exactly, but I would wager it is some version of that. In some way, you have been told that your success is highly contingent on your purchasing CD's and attending rallies. Optional? My god yes, but...so is success.
Just because your a Diamond doesn't mean you make any money. So, u have a crap load of people under you. So what. If their not buying/selling, your tutti fruity title is just that. Ask them to show you their last 1099. they won't for the simple fact they make all, if any, selling literature, hence "tools" scam. The Devos/Van Andel families are not wealthy from IBO profitable businesses. Their wealthy from IBO SELF CONSUMPTION!!! Get. A. Clue.
sad you wasted 9 years Johny! thats probably why you area little bitter! I wasted 3 so I know what it feels..
you should give in again and try it in full, play it "smart" like you think right now, and go for it... if you are smart enough you have nothing to loose and a lot to gain!
overcome your fears, overcome yourself! thats what it is about!
Of all the horribly flawed aspects of your position, the most egregious is this: you believe that any time not spent in Amway by anybody is "wasted". No single other concept so easily makes clear the extreme cult-like mindset you possess. It's called the "us vs. them" mentality. You're either in the cult or you're a broke loser.
Listen pal, there is no "opportunity", however legitimate, on this earth that is for everyone. Only a cult-like mindset could believe otherwise.
lol you are funny! succesful IBO's (silver, gold, platinum, ruby, emerald and diamond level) created a system? oh! ok, noted..
Unsuspecting huh? lol
my friend you sure know a lot... of bs!! lol :D
anyway im not trying to prove you wrong, thats would be just a waste of time! plus I have better things to do than replying to you, rebelius, apathic johny boy
first "Business owners" and I mean REAL business owners are alwasys at the top, even you have a boss right now, thats just reality. Same thing here, except you dont have a boss, you have biz associates and mentors. you work hard and excell and you'll make it,, in 2009 amway listed over 1500 diamonds, how many emeralds? ruby? platinum? think it over pls.
second, "almost certainly never" depends on the IBO not the stats.
is it a coincidence that all succesful IBO's have a system? think it over
Actually, the very most "successful IBO's" didn't plug into a system, they created a "system" so they may sell books/CD's/rally tickets to bemused, glib, unsuspecting downline like yourself. But since you're asking the question, please show me statistical evidence that "all successful IBO's have a system". It's what you've been told, but your unquestioning mind accepted it as fact.
The thing is that its way easier to sit and judge than to try something that takes you out of your comfort zone. its fine if u are satisfied w/an 8-5 job making 36k-60k/year but succesful people do not waste time critizicing others like this. loosers use their time bringing others down w/them.I just post this so that the many new people in Amway understand that all the negativity found here is what will stop you from being succesful. talk to succesful people making money, not loosers posting bs
Making 36K per year would put you in the top 1/2 of one percent of current Amway "business owners" and beyond the top 1/10 of one percent of those all-time. It seems that even if one isn't "satisfied w/an 8-5 job making 36k-60k/year", then joining Amway would be just about his worst recourse, given he will almost certainly never reach the same level of "success" he currently has attained.
"Negativity" might inhibit success, but unabashed positivity in lieu of due diligence and critical reasoning will most likely lead to abject failure, especially in the case of Amway, a recruitment scheme so fraught with deception and cult-like brainwashing "motivational organizations". Taking as fact what is espoused by those who stand to profit handsomely from your acquiescence isn't being a "loser", it's being smart. Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, people.
hahahaha wow! alright smart guy! there is really no point in talking with people who failed, gave up and try to justify their lack of courage and personality with rationalization! thats really why you could never do it. word to the wise,, face your problem and leave excuses behind! no one ever told you it was going to be easy!!!
but hey, if not, its a free country.. hold your grudge and keep on whatever is you are doing.. Im sure its great as well!
Why do you characterize people and make assumptions about them? Isn't that fundamentally negative? You assume I've been foolish enough to actually enroll in Amway despite its rancid reputation. I was approached 9 years ago, but I conducted due diligence. The reason I post here isn't out of some "grudge", it's out of concern for unsuspecting, well-meaning recruits your upline preys on.
@YourFriendHerbie After a certain point you should say, "Maybe this isn't for me." But there are too many people out there who are afraid to cut their own path. And it's those who fear the brand of a loser that keep so many of these diamond-ships afloat. I've seen countless old men and women who have been in it for 15+ years still dancing at the rallies saying, "I'm going diamond and they have yet to break 1500." But you can't blame Quixtar for them not being smart enough to give it up.
You can't blame Quixtar, huh? Granted, Amway/Quixtar is simply the corporate vehicle through which many, many diabolical charlatans deceive millions and bilk them out of their time and hard-earned money. Can we blame the corporate entity for the sins of the kingpins? Amway corporate has been aware of the cult-like, destructive motivational organizations for years. Dick Devos' "directly speaking" tapes acknowledge them in 1982, but Amway did nothing. So yes, they can be blamed
@JohnWDB1 I can't because that's like blaming cigarette companies for cancer. If you're too stupid to stop smoking who's fault is that? It's not theirs. If they can keep making money off of people who are stupid enough to keep feeding it to them, then keep riding that horse until it dies. Me and you may have been smart enough to get out. But for those people who have been told and repeating the same stupidity they deserve to be broke. At some point reality has to set in.
Nope. You might have a point if the cigarette companies promised people that cigarettes would make them healthy, wealthy, and wise--curing cancer, increasing brain synapse formation, and even clearing cataracts. Better yet, when you started buying cigarettes, you were told that to make the cigs really work for you, you had to spend a hundred bucks a week on relaxation tapes and nutrition books, most of which told you to buy more cigarettes. Your analogy is flawed. Keep trying
@JohnWDB1 Wow, you are really bitter towards Quixtar. I'm just saying that when something is hurting you, you know it, and you don't quit you can't blame the product you're consuming. Do I think their energy drinks work? For I fact I know they don't. Guess what, I stopped drinking them and stopped spending money on Quixtar and I got called every name in the book by former friends who stayed in and are struggling to this day. I am the poster on their wall that has loser written under it.
No, no, no, no, no. I was never, ever in Quixtar. I just take an interest in pyramid schemes and corporate fraud. I've been researching them in my spare time over the last 10 years. You're blatantly missing the point, though. The problem isn't with Amway's products, however insipid they may be. The problem is that recruits are promised riches can be theirs if they "follow the system", when the system simply exists to make the kingpins rich. It's the old bait-and-switch.
@JohnWDB1 I agree with you. I was in it and know that it does work, but there are people that get "inside" info. The people who make the most money -- well, most of it is made off the motivational books and tapes called tools. The ones highest on the totem pole make the most money off of them and they get people on this system called ditto that bills people anywhere from $150 - 400 a month and that the keeps the points rolling in for the higher ups too. This business also isn't recession proof.
In Quixtar they feed you this crap that if you quit, you're a loser and a lot of people don't quit for fear of being called a loser. Amway works, but you have to literally give up your life, sleep, and sanity to sell crap that does just as well as any other thing you can buy for 300% less. It's the fear of being called a failure why people don't quit. I have lost friends because I was willing to say, "Screw this noise. Losing too much $." Ten years later they're right where they started.
For a real opportunity to earn GOOD money email me at: foster_236@hotmail.com and I will send you an Eligibility Form for you to fill out. If all is well then you can start working on my team ASAP!
You can work your ass off in this business and sell a couple of boxes of soap I know I tried it ,if I hadn't stopped when I did I would have straved to death!!!!
I do, yes, I do... you stopped so to keep some of that soap to yourself too, otherwise, no soap means you would be starving to death !! :) As for me, ma cherie, I use it for body wash. I have NUTRILITE bars to eat instead; much more delicious :):)
"I thought that soap is used for washing only, not for eating. Hey, no wonder you would be that close to starving to death!!!!"
And I thought Amway products were for retailing and not for personal consumption! Funny he said he might "sell a few boxes of soap" and you immediately assumed he meant selling to himself for personal consumption. Your knee-jerk reaction belies your own behavior with your Amway "business"
Keep stringing random words together and hoping it makes sense. Everyone knows that Amway product sales are due to no less than 90% personal hyperconsumption by IBO's. There is simply no real world market for your products. They cannot compete with higher quality, lower priced products, which are ubiquitously available to anyone who'd rather not join a cult for the privelege of paying more for less.
Why don't you then let me happily live in my own, real world? Just as I don't force you out of yours, don't force me out of mine. It's a matter of good manners and respect.
How many times do I have to say it, mate? This isn't personal. Don't "force" you out of your world? I can't possibly force you to believe anything, nor do I care about trying. What I'm interested in is getting the truth out there. If you choose to debate me in this public forum with half-truths and misdirection, that is your free choice. Deal with the consequences of being exposed and being caused to doubt the web of lies you mindlessly bought into.
'What I'm interested in is getting the truth out there.' - JohnWDB1
What truth are you pursuing when you do not have direct association/experience with Amway as per first person? It's like a preacher in a church; he is not well versed in the Bible, knows a bit here and there, misses a lot, twists a lot more, throws in abundant opinions and before you know it, he comes straight to the pulpit preaching the Truth! And you thought you were just like him, in glory, preaching the Truth!
"It's like a preacher in a church; he is not well versed in the Bible, knows a bit here and there, misses a lot, twists a lot more"
That's a horrible analogy. I am very well-versed in Amway, and I've been studying it somewhere around 10X longer than you have. You are like a person who comes to church eagerly seeking answers and cannot discern between well-founded arguments and emotionally-driven sensationalism. You pledge blind allegiance to whoever is most charismatic.
Do the products do what they claim to do? Artistry- Among the top 5, largest selling, premium skincare brands. Nutrilite- Only Global vitamin and mineral brand to grow, harvest, and process plants on its own certified organic farms. also the #1 seller of multi-vitamins in the world. L.O.C. - Liquid Organic Cleaners - Top of the line products that are safe for the environment. Concentrated and without the fillers of most other brands
Amway products have consistently under-performed leading brands in consumer reports. Consumer Reports has frequently said you can get a better product for less money, and this is no surprise. Amway products are frequently priced double their counterparts. If people actually saw value in your products, they'd buy them. Value sells, especially in today's informed marketplace, yet you cannot capture 1% of the marketshare.
Value sells? Can you not make a better burger than McDonalds? One that is healthier and cheaper to produce. Yet you still eat there? And maybe not you yourself, but you get the point. Value doesn't sell, convenience and catchy advertising sale.
"Can you not make a better burger than McDonalds?"
Yes, but value and quality are different things. The fact that you don't get this exposes you as a business-naive rube.
"One that is healthier and cheaper to produce."
I would likely have to choose one or the other. Healthier would be more expensive. Cheaper to produce would likely be even less healthy. The fact that you don't get this exposes you for a business-naive rube.
Healthier isn't necessarily cheaper... If you average $4/meal at fast food, 3meals/day, 30days/month, that's about $360/month per person. I know I can do grocery shopping for myself and spend less than $200/month and eat healthy. I personally spend $100/month on food and about $50/month on vitamins to get all the proper nutrients.
I do apologize, i believe i mistyped. what I mean is that it is Cheaper to eat Healthier. Going to the grocery store instead of eating out at fast food and restaurants will save you a ton of money.
"I do apologize, i believe i mistyped. what I mean is that it is Cheaper to eat Healthier. Going to the grocery store instead of eating out at fast food and restaurants will save you a ton of money."
Wrong. Healthy food is almost always more expensive, per calorie. However, comparing prepared food bought from a restaurant (fast-food or otherwise) to unprepared food bought at a grocery store is apples and oranges. I can't believe how bad you are at reasoning.
How is that bad reasoning? Even if you do all of your shopping at the grocery store. You can make a healthy meal cheaper than a junk meal. Fruits/Veggies are rather inexpensive for the amount you would eat in a setting. Cookies or a bag of chips might be cheap if you eat only the serving size suggested, but it is rare for someone to do so. In restaurants even, healthier food is comparable /cheaper in price as well.
"How is that bad reasoning? Even if you do all of your shopping at the grocery store. You can make a healthy meal cheaper than a junk meal."
Try to subsist on celery and lettuce. A head of lettuce is cheap, as is a stalk of celerly (kind of), but you get almost no calories from it. Per calorie, it is much cheaper to buy unhealthy. An 8 oz skinless/boneless chicken breast costs about 3 bucks from the market (150 cal). You can buy a pound of ground chuck for that (1600 cal)
I really don't have much information on this topic, of which is probably obvious. All i was meaning to compare was the cost of eating out verse going to the grocery store. People pay more for convenience.
Yes, but your argument wasn't that "convenient" food is more expensive. It was that unhealthy food was more expensive than healthy food. That is false. For all the bad things about eating at McDonalds, none of them is cost. You can eat a hot 800 calorie meal for 2 dollars. Do that twice a day with a 1 dollar biscuit in the morning, and you've eaten 2000 calories of prepared, hot food for 5 dollars a day. Can't beat that. It might hurt your heart, but it wont' hurt your wallet
"Value doesn't sell, convenience and catchy advertising sale."
Don't you Ambots taut "convenience" as one of the chief benefits of shopping Amway online? Yet you still are crushed by Wal-mart 400 billion to 9 billion in total sales. Wal-mart shoppers get better products for less money. The only reason, ONLY REASON, why anybody buys Amway is that they believe they'll get rich by doing so. They are almost all in for a rude awakening.
Wal-Mart sales a larger variety of products than Amway also. So not really comparing like things. Like i've said before, compare Nutrilite's multi-vitamin to Centrum or One-A-Day and see the difference. and comparable costs as well. but Centrum and One-A-Day are more popularized through advertisements that people think they are better. Notice the shelf life on the vitamins you choose. The longer the shelf life = more preservatives = less your body absorbs while taking
FHTM tries to wiggle out of legal action from DUPONT!
FHTM is no longer authorized to use the DuPont name, logo, or trademark in any way. FHTM should immediately discontinue the use of any materials containing the DuPont logo. Our right to use DuPont’s name, logo and trademark was revoked because FHTM abused the system ...by creating and distributing unapproved marketing materials that displayed the DuPont logo.
A few years ago, I had a crazy neighbor that plagued me almost daily about joining up with Amway. I thought I was going to have to either move or get a restraining order. Never have a encountered such an aggressive, delusional person in my life. It was just downright sad. I bought some crap from her, thinking that would shut her up, but nooooo....it just made her more determined. I finally had to tell her to leave me be.
That neighbor had totally sold out to the avaricious dream of extravagant personal wealth, and she didn't care who she had to alienate to get there. The sad thing is that she will inevitably lose in this game, and she will be left to cope with swath of burned bridges and severed family ties in the wake of her failed "Amway business". Sadder still is that she will be left to cope ALONE, because the shallow "friends" she made in Amway weren't really friends but hungry jackals.
@whatanightmare1 Yeah... because their "dream" is about as attainable as winning the lottery, they fuel them with all kinds of hype and fire them up! Then you have these "loonies" that are worse than most holy rollers! Why? They THINK that we don't understand.... when the problem is they don't understand REALITY!
@ProudConservative2 You are right on in comparing them with holy rollers...I mean, that is some damn powerful Kool-Aid they pour down those brainwashed simpletons..LOL.
One time, we were out to dinner with a group of friends for my birthday, and my husband taps his wine glass with his spoon, stands up and says "now that I have you all here, I want to talk to you about Amway!" It was funny :~) We use it as a joke quite often.
Its a proven business system. Ya cant do it on your own you need to know the system and where the money is not juss join and go your own way theres not much in retailing but theres plenty in the distrobution side.. it sounds like you all need a better upline
LOL! the poms dnt make bugger all outta this cos the queen wont let Amway/Quixtar show them how to make the money they arent allowed to recieve the books and CD's or purchase from IDA.. We dont promise success. if you do nothing you get nothing. the more you do the more you make and there is no limit on the money you can make.
"the more you do the more you make and there is no limit on the money you can make."
1) If you mean the more tapes you buy and rallies you attend, the more you make, this is completely unsubstantiated. Please prove to me that buying more tools equates to making more. Spending on tools equates to more losses for the IBO, not more gains.
2) There may not be a limit to the money you can make, but the losses and broken relationships are unlimited, too.
ppl who talks bad about Amway, is Wal-mart sons hahaha i rather buy from amway and get a penny back than buy at Walmart, Sams "club" and get nothing back : ) good day, besides i know Mexicans doing this, and are making 6 digit a year Haters gonna Hate always.
another thing you dont need a degre o school to do it ;)
"i rather buy from amway and get a penny back than buy at Walmart, Sams "club" and get nothing back : )"
So you'd rather pay twice retail and get a penny back than paying retail and getting "nothing back"? And that makes sense to you? Tell you what, I'll buy from Wal-mart, double the price, sell it directly to you, and give you a 3% "rebate" on your purchase. Do we have a deal?
This was long! Who ever did this video was right on; unfortunatly. The only thing was that is was SECOND GENERATION Amway owners that did this. Not the "original Rich & Jay". My parents where involved for 33 years. They were Emeralds. We were ALL involved! This is what happened that 1,000s of distributors resigned or where terminated.
I am in Genewize. It has customized skin serum and suppliments to your DNA! I'm Nancy R. Glass (on FB) & my email is glassn@ymail.com. God Bless!
Дорогие,друзья! Ваша программа супер,но все это уже не актуально,сейчас новые технологии,с которыми можно легко зарабатывать,через интернет(от $300 до $500 тысяч и выше в месяц) Кому интересно,расскажу.Мой скайп Natalifn28
Not all MLMs work, but a very few do. Amway for instance does work, and if someone denies it, they are plain ignorant! Amway is the most reputable MLM there is period. They went through the legal process and WON! There are always temporary setbacks and mistakes made by people, in every business. What matters is that they continue to make things right in the long run. Amway is the largest in the world, in number of reps! Amway has paid out ov
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I'm an IBO on Amway with plenty of information to offer, i'll walk you through anything whether you sign up as a customer of mine or join my business or nothing at all. i'll help you through it :)
Message me!
rpisacone 2 weeks ago
"IBS"... Irritable Bowel Syndrome? lol
jq747 2 weeks ago
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“Take care, & be on your guard against all covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.”Lk12:15 "...I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content."Phil4:11 "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils...1Tim6:10
MACGARCIAcom 3 weeks ago
"Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have..." Heb 13:5
MACGARCIAcom 4 weeks ago
Amway is often promoted as an opportunity to run your own business, but in reality it is not really free enterprise. Nobody can kick you out of a business that is truly your own. I run a consultancy, and nobody has that control over me (and nobody wants me to be religious)!
cyberpat55 1 month ago
check out the name cowardice........ Coward.... Ice >.< no wonder why he didn't make anything out of a proven to work business
dreamcorezen 1 month ago
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"Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have..." Heb 13:5
MACGARCIAcom 1 month ago
In his online book "Merchants of Deception", former Quixtar IBO Eric Scheibeler stated that he and his family received death threats from his uplines during a business meeting and from an anonymous phone call. In July 2007, Scheibeler wrote a letter to an attorney for Amway and Quixtar clarifying among other things that, to his knowledge, Doug DeVos or Amway/Quixtar employees never made any death threats to him. From Wikipedia. So Sheibeler never lied right?
PokerorDie 1 month ago
Wikipedia is your iron-clad source? You should google "Eric Scheibeler clarification". You can find the actual text of his clarification, which said "I did not receive a death threat from Amway or Mr. Devos". A few lines later he says "As I indicated in my book, Merchants of Deception...I was threatened by an Amway distributor".
He never lied, nor did he admit to lying. Amway bullied him into "clarifying" it wasn't corporate who threatened him. Scheibeler never claimed corporate did.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Yeah man, the internet is chock full of lies. And yet somehow you don't believe an unbiased information source such as wikipedia, but you believe Eric Sheibeler. And you say you are not disillusioned.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
"And yet somehow you don't believe an unbiased information source such as wikipedia, but you believe Eric Sheibeler"
This isn't a question of who we'd rather believe. We don't have to "believe Wikipedia". We can actually find the clarification letter and verify for ourselves. I can't believe how stupid you are.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
You'd rather "believe Wikipedia" even though it's clearly wrong on this fact because it is in line with what you'd like to be true. Even when the facts are made plain for you, you'd rather go on believing an error. It is futile to argue with such a person, because it doesn't matter how compelling an argument you make--they'll just shrug off sense and reason in favor of slogans and stock-phrases. Good job mate--you're fully indoctrinated in this cult!
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 You don't see any hipocrasy in what you are saying? Let's be adults ok FOR ONCE. Can you please tell me how much a diamond makes in Amway, if you don't know it's fine. But I would like to see if you know.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
That's not how hypocrisy is spelled. Average diamond income in certain years can be found on many websites. This figure is not the same as what a diamond "makes" for several reasons. 1) Expenses aren't included. 2) profits from tool sales (which become quite significant at this level) aren't included.
Now, please go back and answer the countless questions I've posed to you that you've conveniently ignored, such as "what incentive would Scheibeler have to lie".
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Excluding the OPTIONAL expenses and excluding tool sales, what does a diamond make? Sounds like to me you don't have the slightest idea of the compensation plan or bonus structure. You sure as hell won't find it from Eric's book. You can find it on Amway.com. When you first get around the business you are given a sheet with the exact figures on them. That's not what Eric tells you, "oh we weren't told the numbers but we just went with it cuz we'd get rich" The guy plays..
PokerorDie 1 month ago
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@PokerorDie
"Sounds like to me you don't have the slightest idea of the compensation plan or bonus structure."
How could I quote you the average Emerald income for a given year without also knowing average Diamond income? You just can't reason. You show it over and over. You're overmatched here, bub, and you just keep showing that you don't know how to think.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 stupid, or maybe he really was that dumb. But how can you be in a business for nearly ten years and have absolutely no idea of what to expect from the amount of income you'll make at certain levels... You seriously buy that story. The guy is an idiot or a lier. "We got our check and we were shocked, only $64!" What a crock of shit. You will know what you make if you spend more than 5 minutes on Amway.com This is not difficult John, you can find it if you try.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 I honestly don't know. Perhaps he did something he wasn't supposed to be doing in the company, got kicked out and now is getting back at them by writing a book and trying to sue? He could have a million personal reasons. I don't know what it is. But you'd be a fool to read his book just shake your head up and down all the way through it without questioning the veracity of his statements.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
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@PokerorDie
"Perhaps he did something he wasn't supposed to be doing in the company, got kicked out and now is getting back at them by writing a book and trying to sue?"
In other words, he has no clear motive, and you can only come up with implausible reasons.
"But you'd be a fool to read his book just shake your head up and down all the way through it without questioning the veracity of his statements."
There are countless similar stories to Scheibeler's. You'd be a fool to ignore them.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1
'You'd rather "believe Wikipedia" even though it's clearly wrong on this fact because it is in line with what you'd like to be true.'
Give us a true reason why we should believe JohnWDB1 instead of Amway!
Terratonific 1 month ago
@Terratonific
"Give us a true reason why we should believe JohnWDB1 instead of Amway!"
I've never asked that you believe me. I ask that you verify the facts for yourself. Scheibeler's statement may be read online. He affirms that no amway corporate employee threatened him, but he had never claimed they did, though. An amway IBO threatened him.
If you were interested in truth, and not propaganda, you would already know this fact. Cult apologetics are time consuming, though, I'm sure.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
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Terratonific 1 month ago
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@JohnWDB1
'I've never asked that you believe me.'
The simple act of you talking to someone, implies that at some level you expect to be believed.
'I ask that you verify the facts for yourself. Scheibeler's statement may be read online.'
I already did that with the Better Business Bureau and the Direct Selling Association. They told me what I needed to know so to have peace of mind. They are official sources. Erik Scheibeler is not. Case closed!
Terratonific 3 weeks ago
“…four components of mind control: 1.) Behavior control (2.)
thought control (3.) emotional control; and (4.) information
control.” as is turns out, school is also a cult.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
This is So FAKE . He doesnt give any FACKS. Just Bla Bla Bla Bla.
scoobydog411 1 month ago
for your info look up rich Devos "Directly speaking " audio file 1983 about the problems known about since approx 1980 coming to a head in 1983. Rich Devos addresses Direct Distributors about abuses by leading distributors and abuses of distributors and the gaze of govt upon Amway Corp. Worth your time to listen to the Co founder and CEO at the time detail the problems of how the business is being presented and the action need to put things back on the right road. Enlightening stuff
graphix59 2 months ago
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They do it all the time. :)
rawmark 2 months ago
@YourFriendHerbie its like legalized organized crime without the crime. or drugs
willskater235 2 months ago
@YourFriendHerbie check out David Wood's blog
packleader1215 2 months ago
@YourFriendHerbie lol!
Glahnnia 3 months ago
That's how i sell potatoes.I order them from the market than i call my friends and tell them about my GREAT potatoes and sell them at a price 10 times higher then i buy them.I made millions with that.In the end i only have to convince them that if they also sell potatoes at this price to THEIR friends,they will get serious money,wich is true.They only have to think positive and if they can't sell them the foult is theirs because they are not good sales-personalities.
freedomofthinking 4 months ago 2
@freedomofthinking Selling potatoes and selling some of the best health products in the world is like comparing potatoes to... well... vitamins. And I sell all my stuff to my friends for the same price I buy them... I make no retail profit.. the potato farm just gives me bonus checks for moving enough potatoes. So what are you talking about exactly?
PokerorDie 2 months ago
@PokerorDie Potatoes contain a lot of natural vitamins.Most of them are Vitamin B in purest form.Of course you sell your friends at the price you buy them.Only the price you buy them is very high comparing to other products on the market.In my comparation the "market" is the lab,me =amway and my friends are the people like you who work for amway.Now is more clear?
freedomofthinking 2 months ago
@freedomofthinking Yes I can buy one ply toilet paper from walmart and buy 3 ply from Amway. Which one costs more. If something from Amway costs more (for an IBO) it's usually because either A. It's concentrated. B. Its better quality. Besides, it's not difficult to get 3, 6 and even 9 percent compesation if you try, therefore everything you buy is even cheaper.
PokerorDie 2 months ago
@PokerorDie
Ah, the miracle of concentration. Isn't that how they've managed to convince their glib, hopeful, irreparably bemused followers that Amway products don't, in actuality cost more???
Nearly every price comparison has found that Amway products cost 60% more even AFTER you account for wholesale "discounts". Very few of these products were *concentrated*, but in cases they were, they are compared with comparable concentrates.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
(cont)
In many cases, Amway products are brand-name products sold in identical quantities at Costco. If you really want to know the truth, start with Progresso soups. There are scads of other examples.
In cases when products are Amway brands, they are compared in cost-comparisons NOT with generic but with LEADING BRANDS. Think Amway products are superior to leading brands? Consumer Reports sure don't. Amway has performed average to below in those nearly every time.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 You are kidding right? Amway's products have won numerous awards, just go look on wikipedia for that information: In 2006 eSpring was named Product of the Year by the Poland-based non-profit World Foundation of Health, Heart and Mind.eSpring has won numerous Gold and Platinum awards in the Reader's Digest Most Trusted Brand Asia surveys. Same goes for Nutrilite.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Also, you are right, Amway's products are brand name products. They have over 600 parter stores, (best buy Kmart etc.) I can buy "progresso" through my website, and either get a discount for PV for my business for being a parter to the company. Some stuff's offer disounts (day's inn) for example, others offer volume for your business. Some offer both. How is this a bad thing, Amazon does the same thing.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
Notice how I told you to start with Progresso soups, but you refused to check the prices on your own. Instead, you said "that's right" as if somehow it helped to strengthen your case that Amway inflates prices on name brand products. Here's the comparison between what Amway charges you and what Costco charges you for 8 19oz cans of soup: Amway: 19.99, costco: 11.99.
Next look up Red Bull and compare it vs costco (or even a gas station for that matter)
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Amway does not sell Red Bull. They sell XS. Red Bull is sold through parter stores and that price is representative of that business.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
OK, that one was my bad. Amway doesn't sell Red Bull. Made a mistake. But, please address the fact that the common brands (Progresso) that Amway does sell are inflated nearly 100% in price. You are still ignoring that damning fact.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 I personally don't buy food from Amway. You are right the majority of food items are higher than at a wal mart or costco. The products I do buy are usually personal care products and nutrilite products including XS energy drink. Not everything is cheaper through amway, but i do save money on alot of things i already purchase. Plus the bonus kickback you get is something that you can't get anywhere else.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
Most Amway recruits are told that they will SAVE money by joining. They're told they will start saving up to $100 per month right away. This has been called "the little white lie of Amway". It's a minor but insidious lie, as it's the hook that catches fish up front.
If you find out and confront them, they'll side step and say something like "well, not everything is cheaper through Amway". My look--you've just said it. They've taught you well.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Nobody taught me to say anything mate, i'm just being honest. Who told you you would save $100 by joining amway?
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
The "savings" pitch is standard. They start with a $300 basket of purchases (to theoretically get 100 PV). Then they say "what if you save 30% of that???" This is the "savings" you get off retail by joining as an IBO. That's 90 bucks. Then they figure you get a 3% "kickback" on your overpriced purchase (roughly 10 bucks) and add it together.
I wouldn't be surprised if many people joined Amway without getting this pitch, but it is more common than not.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 So who told you that? or did you read that somewhere.... also, let's supposed he told you that you'd be a billionaire. It's not relevant in my opinion. I don't make my decisions to join this business off of what an IBO tells me. I go off the business rules of conduct and regulations standards that comes directly from Amway. I don't judge this business off of what 1 IBO says.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
Why is it that you think what you've been told by upline, who seeks to make money from your effort, is infallible truth, yet what I've learned, through whatever sources, is lies and fabrication? Something seem amiss to you? I've been researching this business for 9 years. You've just begun. You haven't read Eric Scheibeler's "Merchants of Deception". You're too lazy to apply due diligence. You'd rather swallow whole the empty promises of upline, hoping you'll get rich in the end.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 I haven't read Merchants of Deception? By Eric Scheibeler? Now whose making claims that aren't true. Eric Scheiberler the guy who lied in court, who ADMITTED to lying. Yeah I read that guy's book dont worry. You've studied a business for 9 years and yet you are wrong on so many different levels. Once again, you can't speak from experience. And it's not what i've been told by my upline. I already told, but i'll say it again. It does not matter to me what an IBO says.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
1) You haven't read Merchants of Deception
2) Eric Scheibeler didn't lie in court, nor did he admit to lying.
3) The claim that Scheibeler lied is circulated throughout the IBO ranks to discredit yet another critic
4) The "clarification" that Scheibeler submitted was under threat of law suits which he could ill-afford. Amway loves to silence its critics with lawsuits that bankrupt them. That's why it takes monster class-action suits to take them on.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Sheibeler claimed he made 20k a year as a diamond. LEGALLY that's impossible. Amway would have been shut down many many years ago. You make more money than that as a platinum. They are legally bound to those numbers. The comapny would have been shut down long ago don't you think? Sheibeler was a lier. He claimed he was "brainwashed" by the CDs & tapes and couldn't think clearly until months after he stopped listening to them. That he was under "MIND CONTROL".
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
Scheibeler never made diamond, nor did he ever claim he made diamond. You obviously didn't read the book. Stop lying. It's pathetic.
He only made emerald. He claimed he made $34K profit as an emerald. That is highly plausible since bonuses could easily be in the 60K range for an emerald and expenses with his level of travel could easily be 25K.
Amway isn't "legally bound" to any numbers. They reported what the average platinum, emerald, and diamond made in a given year.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 I read the book man, I said diamond. I meant emerald. My mistake. His upline were karry or kathy and Chris. Pretty sure his diamonds were Zach and don't know their last names or his wifes name.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
His upline diamond was Fred Harteis. Anybody who actually read the book would know that. He used aliases in the book, but if you frantically went to look it up when I asked, you wouldn't know that fact.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 I know he used Aliases because he said he did in the first few pages of the book. He said he used aliases to protect the names of his friends or whatever. Listen to you. You are incredibly disillusioned, telling me that I haven't read that book. The majority of your money after reaching platinum comes from your annual bonus. As you reach higher pins, you get a larger bonus every year.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
Disillusioned? You're the one who finds Merchants of Deception so damning that the only defense you can muster is to insist it's all lies. Think for just a moment--I know it's hard for you. 1) What incentive would Scheibeler have to lie? 2) Even if Scheibeler did lie, why are there countless other horror stories about Amway and why are they *so similar*?
Only a cult mindset attempts to discredit all critics as liars, losers, and the disillusioned instead of facing the content
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Amway does promise a certain level of income from Pin levels in the form of bonus checks, which are very large at the higher pin levels. Also, in order to reach those pin levels you will have to have a certain amount of volume moving through your business anyway. So realistically there is no way you can become a broke emerald, unless you blow your money like a dumbass.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
"So realistically there is no way you can become a broke emerald, unless you blow your money like a dumbass."
Actually, the only way you will avoid being a broke emerald is if you get a generous cut of the tools that are sold to your downline. And reaching Emerald is something that only somewhere around 1 in 10,000 ever do. Whoopie! Where do I sign up so I can get started lying to people about income potential, all the while bilking them for CD and book sales???
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Yeah I read the book man. Just because I looked deeper than that, deeper than you did doesn't mean I didn't read it. All i know is legally you will make more than 20k as a diamond. Lol Amway would have been shut down decades ago if they didn't. It's in the fucking fine print why don't you read it. Legally they have to pay you what they say they will pay you. What AMWAY says, not some fucking IBO.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
"Yeah I read the book man. Just because I looked deeper than that, deeper than you did doesn't mean I didn't read it."
Obviously you didn't read the book (see below). Again, stop lying. What was Scheibeler's line of sponsorship (upline diamond)? Betcha don't know.
"All i know is legally you will make more than 20k as a diamond."
Nobody said diamonds make 20K (see below). Even if they could, it wouldn't be a legal matter. Amway promises no level of income per pin level.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
There is wide variation in the earnings per pin level depending on the structure of your downline. Amway doesn't promise they will pay you what the average platinum made in a given year. There's probably greater than a 50% chance you'll make below that average (assuming a right skewed distribution where median is less than mean). The more you speak, the more you expose yourself as ignorant.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 There are wide variations in the earning per pin level, that's correct; however, the bare miniumum a plantinum makes is about 30k a year, not including the Q-12 bonus. Your pay is based on a percentage of volume you move through the business. The more volume, the higher the percentage. Those numbers aren't guesstimates or averages or hidden from Amway distributors, it's for anyone to view. Would you like me to tell you specific numbers?
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Being a platinum means having a group total of 7500 PV. You are now earning 25% compensation of 21,750 BV. That's a total of 3,326.30. That's the absolute minimum running precisely 7500 PV. I was never told averages on anything, I don't even know what the averages are. I was given precise base earnings for each pin level + the various bonuses for reaching those marks. So tell me, how did Eric make only 30k a year as an emerald?
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
Are you serious? I already told you how Eric could make 34K as an Emerald. In 2003, which was his last year in Quixtar, the average Emerald's income was $69K. Eric could've easily had 60K in revenue and 25K in expenses, coming out to roughly 35K.
You and your fanatical brethren are so ill-equipped to be businessmen that you don't understand the difference between revenues and what you "make", aka "profits". But that's no surprise. You'd like to think a 3% "rebate" is earnings
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 You don't have any expenses though. Your profits are just that... PROFITS. If you are stupid enough like Eric to spend money you don't have then whose fault is that?
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
"You don't have any expenses though."
Boy they've brainwashed you good. You don't think Eric Scheibeler had expenses? You think you can show the plan 5 nights a week, driving up to 100 miles one way, hire sitters for all that time for your kids, buy CD's and books weekly, and fly to seminars and functions (paying airfare, cab, hotel, and sitters for the time) FOR FREE? Man, your understanding of finances is so excellent that I wish I could hire you to run my business!
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Buying CD's is optional, in case you forgot. Going to functions and seminars.. also optional. Your spouse can watch your kids while you go show the plan. I'm pretty sure those expenses spent on driving are not part of the "scam", unless Amway owns Exxon or something. Since you are so incredibly smart, tell me. What is the minimum amount an emerald makes?
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
"I'm pretty sure those expenses spent on driving are not part of the "scam", unless Amway owns Exxon or something."
Amway is not a scam. The scam that Amway is associated with is the Amway Motivational Organizations (AMO), where sale of motivational "tools" by kingpins to downline with escalating "breaks" at each big pin level provides the wide majority of income to diamond level and above. This second business is an illegal pyramid scheme, and the UK courts have recognized this
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Ummm, so don't buy the CDs... how hard is that. Wow look at that man problem solved. Don't waste your money on CDs if you can't afford it. Buying the CD's is encouraged as motivational tools and so are the books (All the books are from non-amway affiliated sources). They do offer inspiration and great motivation and knowledge about how to succeed in the business. Like I said before, Amway makes money if you WIN, not if you fail.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
"Buying CD's is optional"
..."but so is success", right? Right? Did I do good regurgitating upline slogan?
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
Cult membership is optional, too. In the horrific Jonestown mass suicide, hundreds voluntarily killed themselves.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Yeah... Amway... Jonestwon mass suicide... same thing. Again can you tell me because I completely forgot, how much does an emerald make?
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 It's a bunch of garbage your recycling man. All you are doing is quoting Eric Sheibelers book like it's your bible. you are not even thinking for yourself. You just keep on regurgitating what you think you know. I can personally tell you from experience, that Eric's book is layered with misinformation, exaggerations, and just plain old blatent lies.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
"All you are doing is quoting Eric Sheibelers book like it's your bible."
When did I quote his book again? Oh, that's right...never.
"you are not even thinking for yourself."
Says the brainwashed cult assimilee
"I can personally tell you from experience, that Eric's book is layered with misinformation, exaggerations, and just plain old blatent lies"
How? Your own experience says nothing of Eric's experience...unless you were there with him 10-20 years ago to verify his claims
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Not being involved in the company and having read that book however... It is VERY convincing, you think you have just been told some secret information that nobody else knows. You think you have all the facts, but really you have never been involved in the company. You dont REALLY know if what Eric Sheibeler says is true... do you? No you don't, that knowledge can only be gained from personal experience, soemthing you don't have.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
"you think you have just been told some secret information that nobody else knows."
Why would I think that? The information is out there for anyone who seeks it.
"You dont REALLY know if what Eric Sheibeler says is true... do you?"
His story is eerily similar to countless other stories about Amway. They can't all be lying. Also, why would he have incentive to lie? He stood to gain nothing from it.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 Ray Croc has people slaving away doing all the work while he sits around and makes millions yes? But is he viewed as a scam artist or slave owner? No, he's viewed as a business owner. He build a system and now he sits and gets rich off of other peoples hard work.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
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@PokerorDie
"Ray Croc has people slaving away doing all the work while he sits around and makes millions yes?"
Look how the Ambot so faithfully spouts the slogans he was taught by upline! They were using the Ray Croc example back in 2002 when I first began studying this cult.
There's no point in carving up your shallow logic here. Visit my blog--google Ambot.0 if you want to see my response to this type of retort (comparing other corporations or the government to pyramid schemes)
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
"No you don't, that knowledge can only be gained from personal experience, soemthing you don't have."
Actually 95% or more of what you know isn't gained from personal experience. You didn't live through the Civil War, but you believe it happened. You haven't ever seen an atom, but you believe all matter is composed of them. You believe everything your upline tells you, including that CD's are the key to success....and they DO have incentive to lie to you.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 I'm talking about experience, not what my upline tells me. That's something i have and you don't. I can speak from my own personal experience on something which you cannot.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
Where do you get this load of garbage?
maxcool123456789 4 months ago
@YourFriendHerbie
Yes, they realize THEY are making shit, but because "crosstalk" is so vehemently discouraged, they don't realize that EVERYONE ELSE is also making shit in that stadium. It's like the emperor's new clothes. As long as everyone keeps quiet, each person feels alone in his failure and assumes it is his own short-comings that have made it so.
JohnWDB1 4 months ago 7
@JohnWDB1 Dude, you are so fuckin lost it's not even funny. You act like they don't discuss failure rates in this business and how many people give up and fall out. Lol EVERYONE knows because they are told! I was told by my platinum that I'd probably lose my first eagleship, (meaning 6 people). How is that for deceitful words of encouragement? You have been told so much non sense by stupid bloggers and failures and you never listen to people actually involved.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
"Dude, you are so fuckin lost it's not even funny."
Says the cult member to the outsider. How typical.
"You act like they don't discuss failure rates in this business"
When did I claim they don't discuss failure? In fact, scaring the bejeezus out of your cult followers on the prospect of failure or quitting is a necessary part of the control paradigm. Always speak of people who've left in a harsh way, so existing members will be afraid of leaving themselves.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
See that's whats bullshit. If they don't talk about the rate of failure you label as lying scam artists who don't inform their members of the facts. But if they do you those numbers, now they are doing it as part of the "control paradigm." Listen to yourself. You argue everything, regardless. This is pointless if that's all you can do.
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
The problem is you think too concretely to understand. The world isn't black-and-white, friend. Your upline leaders DO talk about failure, but they don't do it honestly. Nobody in Amway mentions that the average ACTIVE IBO loses money or that there is a 70% annual attrition rate in the US or that the bottom 99% lose money. When they talk about failure, they do it this way: "there's a 100% success rate in the system and 0% outside it". Oh, then I guess you better get on std order!
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
@JohnWDB1 HOW do you know this exactly? You said you've never been involved in the business correct? How the fuck do you know that's whats i was told. There are enough judgemental know it all pricks and I've heard all of these things before from people like you, but from nobody in my upline. 100% success rate and 0 outside it? Who in my upline said, go ahead and tell because apparently i'm too dumb to remember ever hearing that spheel
PokerorDie 1 month ago
@PokerorDie
I don't know what you were told exactly, but I would wager it is some version of that. In some way, you have been told that your success is highly contingent on your purchasing CD's and attending rallies. Optional? My god yes, but...so is success.
JohnWDB1 1 month ago
use this tool to improve your biz its awesome autocashbotplan com
silviaf843 4 months ago
Just because your a Diamond doesn't mean you make any money. So, u have a crap load of people under you. So what. If their not buying/selling, your tutti fruity title is just that. Ask them to show you their last 1099. they won't for the simple fact they make all, if any, selling literature, hence "tools" scam. The Devos/Van Andel families are not wealthy from IBO profitable businesses. Their wealthy from IBO SELF CONSUMPTION!!! Get. A. Clue.
TheFishtrap 4 months ago
sad you wasted 9 years Johny! thats probably why you area little bitter! I wasted 3 so I know what it feels..
you should give in again and try it in full, play it "smart" like you think right now, and go for it... if you are smart enough you have nothing to loose and a lot to gain!
overcome your fears, overcome yourself! thats what it is about!
not about becoming a millionaire overnight
Andresvillafree5 4 months ago
@Andresvillafree5
Of all the horribly flawed aspects of your position, the most egregious is this: you believe that any time not spent in Amway by anybody is "wasted". No single other concept so easily makes clear the extreme cult-like mindset you possess. It's called the "us vs. them" mentality. You're either in the cult or you're a broke loser.
Listen pal, there is no "opportunity", however legitimate, on this earth that is for everyone. Only a cult-like mindset could believe otherwise.
JohnWDB1 4 months ago 2
lol you are funny! succesful IBO's (silver, gold, platinum, ruby, emerald and diamond level) created a system? oh! ok, noted..
Unsuspecting huh? lol
my friend you sure know a lot... of bs!! lol :D
anyway im not trying to prove you wrong, thats would be just a waste of time! plus I have better things to do than replying to you, rebelius, apathic johny boy
your "reasons" and "logic" gets old after a while
like I said: have a Happy life Johny! ;)
Andresvillafree5 4 months ago
first "Business owners" and I mean REAL business owners are alwasys at the top, even you have a boss right now, thats just reality. Same thing here, except you dont have a boss, you have biz associates and mentors. you work hard and excell and you'll make it,, in 2009 amway listed over 1500 diamonds, how many emeralds? ruby? platinum? think it over pls.
second, "almost certainly never" depends on the IBO not the stats.
is it a coincidence that all succesful IBO's have a system? think it over
Andresvillafree5 4 months ago
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JohnWDB1 4 months ago
@Andresvillafree5
Actually, the very most "successful IBO's" didn't plug into a system, they created a "system" so they may sell books/CD's/rally tickets to bemused, glib, unsuspecting downline like yourself. But since you're asking the question, please show me statistical evidence that "all successful IBO's have a system". It's what you've been told, but your unquestioning mind accepted it as fact.
JohnWDB1 4 months ago
The thing is that its way easier to sit and judge than to try something that takes you out of your comfort zone. its fine if u are satisfied w/an 8-5 job making 36k-60k/year but succesful people do not waste time critizicing others like this. loosers use their time bringing others down w/them.I just post this so that the many new people in Amway understand that all the negativity found here is what will stop you from being succesful. talk to succesful people making money, not loosers posting bs
Andresvillafree5 4 months ago
@Andresvillafree5
Making 36K per year would put you in the top 1/2 of one percent of current Amway "business owners" and beyond the top 1/10 of one percent of those all-time. It seems that even if one isn't "satisfied w/an 8-5 job making 36k-60k/year", then joining Amway would be just about his worst recourse, given he will almost certainly never reach the same level of "success" he currently has attained.
JohnWDB1 4 months ago
@Andresvillafree5
"Negativity" might inhibit success, but unabashed positivity in lieu of due diligence and critical reasoning will most likely lead to abject failure, especially in the case of Amway, a recruitment scheme so fraught with deception and cult-like brainwashing "motivational organizations". Taking as fact what is espoused by those who stand to profit handsomely from your acquiescence isn't being a "loser", it's being smart. Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, people.
JohnWDB1 4 months ago
@JohnWDB1
hahahaha wow! alright smart guy! there is really no point in talking with people who failed, gave up and try to justify their lack of courage and personality with rationalization! thats really why you could never do it. word to the wise,, face your problem and leave excuses behind! no one ever told you it was going to be easy!!!
but hey, if not, its a free country.. hold your grudge and keep on whatever is you are doing.. Im sure its great as well!
good luck in life johny! peace
Andresvillafree5 4 months ago
@Andresvillafree5
Why do you characterize people and make assumptions about them? Isn't that fundamentally negative? You assume I've been foolish enough to actually enroll in Amway despite its rancid reputation. I was approached 9 years ago, but I conducted due diligence. The reason I post here isn't out of some "grudge", it's out of concern for unsuspecting, well-meaning recruits your upline preys on.
JohnWDB1 4 months ago
@YourFriendHerbie After a certain point you should say, "Maybe this isn't for me." But there are too many people out there who are afraid to cut their own path. And it's those who fear the brand of a loser that keep so many of these diamond-ships afloat. I've seen countless old men and women who have been in it for 15+ years still dancing at the rallies saying, "I'm going diamond and they have yet to break 1500." But you can't blame Quixtar for them not being smart enough to give it up.
aquarianbabe 5 months ago
@aquarianbabe
You can't blame Quixtar, huh? Granted, Amway/Quixtar is simply the corporate vehicle through which many, many diabolical charlatans deceive millions and bilk them out of their time and hard-earned money. Can we blame the corporate entity for the sins of the kingpins? Amway corporate has been aware of the cult-like, destructive motivational organizations for years. Dick Devos' "directly speaking" tapes acknowledge them in 1982, but Amway did nothing. So yes, they can be blamed
JohnWDB1 5 months ago
@JohnWDB1 I can't because that's like blaming cigarette companies for cancer. If you're too stupid to stop smoking who's fault is that? It's not theirs. If they can keep making money off of people who are stupid enough to keep feeding it to them, then keep riding that horse until it dies. Me and you may have been smart enough to get out. But for those people who have been told and repeating the same stupidity they deserve to be broke. At some point reality has to set in.
aquarianbabe 4 months ago
@aquarianbabe
Nope. You might have a point if the cigarette companies promised people that cigarettes would make them healthy, wealthy, and wise--curing cancer, increasing brain synapse formation, and even clearing cataracts. Better yet, when you started buying cigarettes, you were told that to make the cigs really work for you, you had to spend a hundred bucks a week on relaxation tapes and nutrition books, most of which told you to buy more cigarettes. Your analogy is flawed. Keep trying
JohnWDB1 4 months ago
@JohnWDB1 Wow, you are really bitter towards Quixtar. I'm just saying that when something is hurting you, you know it, and you don't quit you can't blame the product you're consuming. Do I think their energy drinks work? For I fact I know they don't. Guess what, I stopped drinking them and stopped spending money on Quixtar and I got called every name in the book by former friends who stayed in and are struggling to this day. I am the poster on their wall that has loser written under it.
aquarianbabe 4 months ago
@aquarianbabe
No, no, no, no, no. I was never, ever in Quixtar. I just take an interest in pyramid schemes and corporate fraud. I've been researching them in my spare time over the last 10 years. You're blatantly missing the point, though. The problem isn't with Amway's products, however insipid they may be. The problem is that recruits are promised riches can be theirs if they "follow the system", when the system simply exists to make the kingpins rich. It's the old bait-and-switch.
JohnWDB1 4 months ago
@JohnWDB1 I agree with you. I was in it and know that it does work, but there are people that get "inside" info. The people who make the most money -- well, most of it is made off the motivational books and tapes called tools. The ones highest on the totem pole make the most money off of them and they get people on this system called ditto that bills people anywhere from $150 - 400 a month and that the keeps the points rolling in for the higher ups too. This business also isn't recession proof.
aquarianbabe 4 months ago
In Quixtar they feed you this crap that if you quit, you're a loser and a lot of people don't quit for fear of being called a loser. Amway works, but you have to literally give up your life, sleep, and sanity to sell crap that does just as well as any other thing you can buy for 300% less. It's the fear of being called a failure why people don't quit. I have lost friends because I was willing to say, "Screw this noise. Losing too much $." Ten years later they're right where they started.
aquarianbabe 5 months ago 2
What's amazing is how much these remind me of televangelists... or the freaky Heaven's Gate recruitment video you can find on YouTube.
Ant1Live 5 months ago
it is a cult
silentfades 7 months ago
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The rich scam the poor so the rich could get richer..
local8ball2010 8 months ago
The rich scam the poor so the rich could get richer..
local8ball2010 8 months ago
@local8ball2010
No wonder they call it, the 8 ball!
Terratonific 7 months ago
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For a real opportunity to earn GOOD money email me at: foster_236@hotmail.com and I will send you an Eligibility Form for you to fill out. If all is well then you can start working on my team ASAP!
foster2367 8 months ago
You can work your ass off in this business and sell a couple of boxes of soap I know I tried it ,if I hadn't stopped when I did I would have straved to death!!!!
jennifer23ish 8 months ago
@jennifer23ish
I thought that soap is used for washing only, not for eating. Hey, no wonder you would be that close to starving to death!!!!
Terratonific 7 months ago
@Terratonific you know what I mean silly :>)
jennifer23ish 7 months ago
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@jennifer23ish
I do, yes, I do... you stopped so to keep some of that soap to yourself too, otherwise, no soap means you would be starving to death !! :) As for me, ma cherie, I use it for body wash. I have NUTRILITE bars to eat instead; much more delicious :):)
Terratonific 7 months ago
@Terratonific
"I thought that soap is used for washing only, not for eating. Hey, no wonder you would be that close to starving to death!!!!"
And I thought Amway products were for retailing and not for personal consumption! Funny he said he might "sell a few boxes of soap" and you immediately assumed he meant selling to himself for personal consumption. Your knee-jerk reaction belies your own behavior with your Amway "business"
JohnWDB1 7 months ago
@JohnWDB1
Consumption does not discriminate against itself. Why do you discriminate against yours?
Terratonific 7 months ago
@Terratonific
Keep stringing random words together and hoping it makes sense. Everyone knows that Amway product sales are due to no less than 90% personal hyperconsumption by IBO's. There is simply no real world market for your products. They cannot compete with higher quality, lower priced products, which are ubiquitously available to anyone who'd rather not join a cult for the privelege of paying more for less.
JohnWDB1 7 months ago 2
@JohnWDB1
Why don't you then let me happily live in my own, real world? Just as I don't force you out of yours, don't force me out of mine. It's a matter of good manners and respect.
Terratonific 7 months ago
@Terratonific
How many times do I have to say it, mate? This isn't personal. Don't "force" you out of your world? I can't possibly force you to believe anything, nor do I care about trying. What I'm interested in is getting the truth out there. If you choose to debate me in this public forum with half-truths and misdirection, that is your free choice. Deal with the consequences of being exposed and being caused to doubt the web of lies you mindlessly bought into.
JohnWDB1 7 months ago
@JohnWDB1
'What I'm interested in is getting the truth out there.' - JohnWDB1
What truth are you pursuing when you do not have direct association/experience with Amway as per first person? It's like a preacher in a church; he is not well versed in the Bible, knows a bit here and there, misses a lot, twists a lot more, throws in abundant opinions and before you know it, he comes straight to the pulpit preaching the Truth! And you thought you were just like him, in glory, preaching the Truth!
Terratonific 7 months ago
@Terratonific
"It's like a preacher in a church; he is not well versed in the Bible, knows a bit here and there, misses a lot, twists a lot more"
That's a horrible analogy. I am very well-versed in Amway, and I've been studying it somewhere around 10X longer than you have. You are like a person who comes to church eagerly seeking answers and cannot discern between well-founded arguments and emotionally-driven sensationalism. You pledge blind allegiance to whoever is most charismatic.
JohnWDB1 6 months ago
@JohnWDB1
Awesome for me!
Terratonific 6 months ago
loser, just it!!
marcodiamond1 9 months ago
I love amway, I fap to it everyday!
pablooolbap 9 months ago
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Life changing video on TEAM/Monavie! It's a must watch
search youtube for "Contacted to join team monavie by an orrin woodward leadership guru!" It will change your life
socialistlifecoach 10 months ago
Damn you amway you ruined my economy! you are a fucking sect!! thanks for showing this on youtube
Nichen 10 months ago
Do the products do what they claim to do? Artistry- Among the top 5, largest selling, premium skincare brands. Nutrilite- Only Global vitamin and mineral brand to grow, harvest, and process plants on its own certified organic farms. also the #1 seller of multi-vitamins in the world. L.O.C. - Liquid Organic Cleaners - Top of the line products that are safe for the environment. Concentrated and without the fillers of most other brands
rbrtcn06IBO 11 months ago
@rbrtcn06IBO
"Do the products do what they claim to do?"
Amway products have consistently under-performed leading brands in consumer reports. Consumer Reports has frequently said you can get a better product for less money, and this is no surprise. Amway products are frequently priced double their counterparts. If people actually saw value in your products, they'd buy them. Value sells, especially in today's informed marketplace, yet you cannot capture 1% of the marketshare.
JohnWDB1 11 months ago
@JohnWDB1
Value sells? Can you not make a better burger than McDonalds? One that is healthier and cheaper to produce. Yet you still eat there? And maybe not you yourself, but you get the point. Value doesn't sell, convenience and catchy advertising sale.
rbrtcn06IBO 11 months ago
@rbrtcn06IBO
"Can you not make a better burger than McDonalds?"
Yes, but value and quality are different things. The fact that you don't get this exposes you as a business-naive rube.
"One that is healthier and cheaper to produce."
I would likely have to choose one or the other. Healthier would be more expensive. Cheaper to produce would likely be even less healthy. The fact that you don't get this exposes you for a business-naive rube.
JohnWDB1 11 months ago
@JohnWDB1
Healthier isn't necessarily cheaper... If you average $4/meal at fast food, 3meals/day, 30days/month, that's about $360/month per person. I know I can do grocery shopping for myself and spend less than $200/month and eat healthy. I personally spend $100/month on food and about $50/month on vitamins to get all the proper nutrients.
rbrtcn06IBO 11 months ago
@rbrtcn06IBO
"Healthier isn't necessarily cheaper"
What? Healthier is NEVER cheaper. Are you even reading what I type? Why are you so incredibly dense?
JohnWDB1 11 months ago
@JohnWDB1
I do apologize, i believe i mistyped. what I mean is that it is Cheaper to eat Healthier. Going to the grocery store instead of eating out at fast food and restaurants will save you a ton of money.
rbrtcn06IBO 11 months ago
@rbrtcn06IBO
"I do apologize, i believe i mistyped. what I mean is that it is Cheaper to eat Healthier. Going to the grocery store instead of eating out at fast food and restaurants will save you a ton of money."
Wrong. Healthy food is almost always more expensive, per calorie. However, comparing prepared food bought from a restaurant (fast-food or otherwise) to unprepared food bought at a grocery store is apples and oranges. I can't believe how bad you are at reasoning.
JohnWDB1 11 months ago
@JohnWDB1
How is that bad reasoning? Even if you do all of your shopping at the grocery store. You can make a healthy meal cheaper than a junk meal. Fruits/Veggies are rather inexpensive for the amount you would eat in a setting. Cookies or a bag of chips might be cheap if you eat only the serving size suggested, but it is rare for someone to do so. In restaurants even, healthier food is comparable /cheaper in price as well.
rbrtcn06IBO 11 months ago
@rbrtcn06IBO
"How is that bad reasoning? Even if you do all of your shopping at the grocery store. You can make a healthy meal cheaper than a junk meal."
Try to subsist on celery and lettuce. A head of lettuce is cheap, as is a stalk of celerly (kind of), but you get almost no calories from it. Per calorie, it is much cheaper to buy unhealthy. An 8 oz skinless/boneless chicken breast costs about 3 bucks from the market (150 cal). You can buy a pound of ground chuck for that (1600 cal)
JohnWDB1 11 months ago
@JohnWDB1
I really don't have much information on this topic, of which is probably obvious. All i was meaning to compare was the cost of eating out verse going to the grocery store. People pay more for convenience.
rbrtcn06IBO 11 months ago
@rbrtcn06IBO
Yes, but your argument wasn't that "convenient" food is more expensive. It was that unhealthy food was more expensive than healthy food. That is false. For all the bad things about eating at McDonalds, none of them is cost. You can eat a hot 800 calorie meal for 2 dollars. Do that twice a day with a 1 dollar biscuit in the morning, and you've eaten 2000 calories of prepared, hot food for 5 dollars a day. Can't beat that. It might hurt your heart, but it wont' hurt your wallet
JohnWDB1 11 months ago
@JohnWDB1
You're right, it won't hurt your wallet, but it would hurt your heart. So you're right, it's cheaper to be fat and unhealthy.
rbrtcn06IBO 11 months ago
@rbrtcn06IBO
"Value doesn't sell, convenience and catchy advertising sale."
Don't you Ambots taut "convenience" as one of the chief benefits of shopping Amway online? Yet you still are crushed by Wal-mart 400 billion to 9 billion in total sales. Wal-mart shoppers get better products for less money. The only reason, ONLY REASON, why anybody buys Amway is that they believe they'll get rich by doing so. They are almost all in for a rude awakening.
JohnWDB1 11 months ago
@JohnWDB1
Wal-Mart sales a larger variety of products than Amway also. So not really comparing like things. Like i've said before, compare Nutrilite's multi-vitamin to Centrum or One-A-Day and see the difference. and comparable costs as well. but Centrum and One-A-Day are more popularized through advertisements that people think they are better. Notice the shelf life on the vitamins you choose. The longer the shelf life = more preservatives = less your body absorbs while taking
rbrtcn06IBO 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
FHTM tries to wiggle out of legal action from DUPONT!
FHTM is no longer authorized to use the DuPont name, logo, or trademark in any way. FHTM should immediately discontinue the use of any materials containing the DuPont logo. Our right to use DuPont’s name, logo and trademark was revoked because FHTM abused the system ...by creating and distributing unapproved marketing materials that displayed the DuPont logo.
divabikinis 11 months ago
A few years ago, I had a crazy neighbor that plagued me almost daily about joining up with Amway. I thought I was going to have to either move or get a restraining order. Never have a encountered such an aggressive, delusional person in my life. It was just downright sad. I bought some crap from her, thinking that would shut her up, but nooooo....it just made her more determined. I finally had to tell her to leave me be.
whatanightmare1 11 months ago
@whatanightmare1
That neighbor had totally sold out to the avaricious dream of extravagant personal wealth, and she didn't care who she had to alienate to get there. The sad thing is that she will inevitably lose in this game, and she will be left to cope with swath of burned bridges and severed family ties in the wake of her failed "Amway business". Sadder still is that she will be left to cope ALONE, because the shallow "friends" she made in Amway weren't really friends but hungry jackals.
JohnWDB1 11 months ago
@JohnWDB1 SO RIGHT!!!!
ProudConservative2 11 months ago
@whatanightmare1 Yeah... because their "dream" is about as attainable as winning the lottery, they fuel them with all kinds of hype and fire them up! Then you have these "loonies" that are worse than most holy rollers! Why? They THINK that we don't understand.... when the problem is they don't understand REALITY!
ProudConservative2 11 months ago
@ProudConservative2 You are right on in comparing them with holy rollers...I mean, that is some damn powerful Kool-Aid they pour down those brainwashed simpletons..LOL.
One time, we were out to dinner with a group of friends for my birthday, and my husband taps his wine glass with his spoon, stands up and says "now that I have you all here, I want to talk to you about Amway!" It was funny :~) We use it as a joke quite often.
whatanightmare1 11 months ago
Its a proven business system. Ya cant do it on your own you need to know the system and where the money is not juss join and go your own way theres not much in retailing but theres plenty in the distrobution side.. it sounds like you all need a better upline
Sm0k34L0t0Fkush 11 months ago
@Sm0k34L0t0Fkush First... learn how to SPELL!!! Then go out and try to get rich!
ProudConservative2 11 months ago
LOL! the poms dnt make bugger all outta this cos the queen wont let Amway/Quixtar show them how to make the money they arent allowed to recieve the books and CD's or purchase from IDA.. We dont promise success. if you do nothing you get nothing. the more you do the more you make and there is no limit on the money you can make.
Sm0k34L0t0Fkush 11 months ago
@Sm0k34L0t0Fkush
"the more you do the more you make and there is no limit on the money you can make."
1) If you mean the more tapes you buy and rallies you attend, the more you make, this is completely unsubstantiated. Please prove to me that buying more tools equates to making more. Spending on tools equates to more losses for the IBO, not more gains.
2) There may not be a limit to the money you can make, but the losses and broken relationships are unlimited, too.
JohnWDB1 11 months ago
Comment removed
SDFGEntertainment 1 year ago
Comment removed
SDFGEntertainment 1 year ago
ppl who talks bad about Amway, is Wal-mart sons hahaha i rather buy from amway and get a penny back than buy at Walmart, Sams "club" and get nothing back : ) good day, besides i know Mexicans doing this, and are making 6 digit a year Haters gonna Hate always.
another thing you dont need a degre o school to do it ;)
renzoymarlon 1 year ago
@renzoymarlon
"i rather buy from amway and get a penny back than buy at Walmart, Sams "club" and get nothing back : )"
So you'd rather pay twice retail and get a penny back than paying retail and getting "nothing back"? And that makes sense to you? Tell you what, I'll buy from Wal-mart, double the price, sell it directly to you, and give you a 3% "rebate" on your purchase. Do we have a deal?
JohnWDB1 11 months ago 2
@JohnWDB1
are you sure you are right, is there any chance you are mistaking? a smart man will answer this question in only one way :)
shomado1 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@shomado1
"are you sure you are right, is there any chance you are mistaking? a smart man will answer this question in only one way :)"
The one thing we're sure of is that no smart man could've asked that question, that way. Thanks for ending our suspense.
JohnWDB1 11 months ago
WERE terminated... LOL!
Seriously, if you guys want more info send me a note!!
nancy4genewize 1 year ago
This was long! Who ever did this video was right on; unfortunatly. The only thing was that is was SECOND GENERATION Amway owners that did this. Not the "original Rich & Jay". My parents where involved for 33 years. They were Emeralds. We were ALL involved! This is what happened that 1,000s of distributors resigned or where terminated.
I am in Genewize. It has customized skin serum and suppliments to your DNA! I'm Nancy R. Glass (on FB) & my email is glassn@ymail.com. God Bless!
nancy4genewize 1 year ago
Дорогие,друзья! Ваша программа супер,но все это уже не актуально,сейчас новые технологии,с которыми можно легко зарабатывать,через интернет(от $300 до $500 тысяч и выше в месяц) Кому интересно,расскажу.Мой скайп Natalifn28
missnatali77 1 year ago
Not all MLMs work, but a very few do. Amway for instance does work, and if someone denies it, they are plain ignorant! Amway is the most reputable MLM there is period. They went through the legal process and WON! There are always temporary setbacks and mistakes made by people, in every business. What matters is that they continue to make things right in the long run. Amway is the largest in the world, in number of reps! Amway has paid out ov