@Hexl702 Good. I'm glad you can appreciate it and like that. As a mother, I can't imagine doing anything to harm one of my children, so it's quite easy to imagine a penalty for a mother who does.
@Hexl702 That's an original reply - you don't have anything to say so you use profanity. Rather than talk about fantasic situations, why not focus on reality? There IS a link to breast cancer, and there IS a link to perforated uterus, and there IS a link to future miscarriages, and there IS a link to all kinds of ugly conditions for the mother. But Planned Parenthood certainly doesn't want you to know that! Insist on your right ot be smarter today than you were yesterday!
@Hexl702 Where did you get that inaccurate stat? And why is 10 deaths a year from a "safe procedure" from a "safe provider" acceptable? Why would even one death be?
LOL not this crap again! "One death is too many," hell no one would ever get on a plane, drive in rush hour traffic, eat peanut butter or even get on a roller coaster.
10 deaths out of a million - must translate into 000.0001% - can YouTube even detect such a small figure, lol what a shitty tactic, trying to scare
@Hexl702 The ignornant spouting of incorrect, misleading, plain erroneous information is what results in the damage to so many women who suffer the effects of abortion. Rather than name-calling, why don't you take the time to investigate the side-effects of abortion, (& I don't mean the dead babies - we both know about THAT side effect). I challenge you - investigate all for yourself (there's a thought!) what the real "side effects' of the "abortion procedure" are.
@Hexl702 Death is only one of the very possible side effects of abortion - but there are many others. Abortion HURTS women! Why do you refuse to research the topic about which there is so much solid scientific research? The effects are real, and they`re awful! The dead babies are one tragic effect of abortion. The very real illnesses suffered by the mothers who procured them are another side effect? Are you afraid to investigate the effects on the mother?
@Hexl702 I never talked about "hating abortion". You repeatedly try to put words in my mouth, when you're not labelling me and using profanity. Why is that necessary? Why is the truth not sufficient for you? Why are you so afraid of the truth? Have some courage!
@Hexl702 Yeah - that affirms what I was saying about a bad law. Just because the law exists doesn't means it's good. Just because a person is legally allowed to do something doesn't make it right. Hitler, anyone?
Beautiful sentiment, wonderful expression - lasts all of 10 seconds in the real world. Even pro-liquors are for rape/incest/health of woman abortions.
@Hexl702 Try to define your terms. What do you mean "innocent life" - do you mean the beef cow who provides my steak for dinner - that life? Do you mean the lettuce and veggies that make my salad? Is that the "life" to which you're referring. Here's an idea - let's try defining our terms? How about we, oh - I don't know - I feel like I may have said this before, but it doesn't seem to be registering - um - start with first principles?
lol - if fetuses want to join the club, and be regarded as a person just like everyone else - theyd have to accept theres times they could be legally killed just like us.
@Hexl702 You sure put a lot of stock in the laws - especially bad ones. Just because there's a law about something doesn't necessarily make it right. Insist on your right to be smarter today than you were yesterday.
@Hexl702 You say "Abortion may be bad, but it isnt THAT bad, or it would be illegal."
Are you serious? Because it's legal it can't be THAT bad? Do you need historical examples to refute this, or do you think you can come up with a few on your own. You mentioned earlier that your state wasn't strong in education. Stop waiting for the education system or the government to educate you, and take that responsibility on yourself. Insist on your right to be smarter today than yesterday.
@Hexl702 If you think the person affected decides what the outcome should be, and you already referred to that thing in the woman's womb as a "baby", why are you not interested in consulting the baby about what the outcome should be? And why not the father? Why are you advocating for NO rights for the father? Is that what the feminist movement has become? All rights to the woman - none to the children or fathers?
Consulting the baby - Fetuses cant talk LOL hell do you guys go around asking fetuses to weigh in on various issues, wonder what their opinion would be on Obama's latest tax plans.
""Why not the father""
Because men dont split the pregnancy 50/50 with the woman. Its her body, its her call. If you gave a man power to overrule her - if a man that could force a woman to birth, could force her to abort.
@Hexl702 The woman's body is the woman's body, but the baby's body is neither hers nor his father's. The baby's body is his own. Feminism has brought us to this; the man has NO rights? I guess shouldn't find it surprising when I read about the male captain and male crew workers on a cruise ship who push women and children aside to save themselves. Who said anything about giving the man power to "over rule" the woman? If you have issues to work through, don't foist them on me!
@Hexl702 You sure spend a lot of time LOL ing on here; considering the subject matter, that's a sad commentary. So, I guess the day after the baby is born, given that the mother carried the baby for nine months, you'd be okay with her killing the baby? I mean, if the baby was too much for her, and after all, she carried him for nine months, what business would the father have butting in at that point? Or at ANY point for that matter?
Abortion isnt funny, its a bloody mess& looks awful.
You guys, on the hand, are hilarious most of the time& i cant help it if i think so.
Espec. when you accuse me of being "okay w/ killing the baby."" Hexl doesnt go to bat for women who abort at 9 mos (if there even is such a thng). I support a womans right to get un-pregnant. Someone who wants to be un-pregnant after shes BEEN preg for 6, 7 months loses me. But thats not realy the issue to me, 00.00001% of em.
@Hexl702 Well, because you seem to be ignorant of the facts, in Canada, there is no abortion law, so yes - a woman can (and many do) at nine months. And if she goes a week past her due date, and the baby is 9 pounds, she still can abort. As far as your stats, are you kidding about the numbers? Why don't you ask Planned Parenthood for their stats about the numbers of women aborting at each stage. And about defining terms, "un-pregnant" is one more attempt to mask. What do you mean?
@Hexl702 Where did you come up with the 0.00001% of abortions, and which group is that to which you're referring? And why do you refuse to address my questions regarding the health of the mother as a result of an abortion? The numbers of women who die as a result of unsafe abortions at "safe" abortion clinics is far higher than the number of women who die as a result of childbirth. Look it up! Insist on your right to be smarter today than you were yesterday!
@Hexl702 There you go again, jumping to conclusions. How do you know I'm not American? Ever heard of dual citizenship? Ever heard of an American living or working out of the country? Branch out a little!
@Hexl702 I'm not talking about her uterus. You said earlier that the person being affected should make the decision. The baby is affected and so is the father. So you were disingenuous in your claim. I'm talking about the baby's life. And for the vast majority of men and women who use abortion as a means of birth control, (rather than out of fear of dropping dead from the pregnancy or fear of being beaten up), do different rules apply to them? Or is it the same goes for everybody?
@Hexl702 Yes - the woman IS affected by abortion. There are very detrimental effects on her body, including the increased risk of all kinds of ugly complications and future medical and psychological illnesses. I trust if you're serious about this, you'll investigate. Why aren't you putting pressure on Planned Parenthood and other "abortion providers" to divulge that information? While in most cases, the mother survives the abortion, the baby is dead.
You guys dont have the stats to back up those claims. With some 50 million abortions, must translate into 30-35 million women. The numbers wouldnt just go up, theyd have EXPLODED.
Thats not what happened (from Am. Cancer Society's 2011 report) : "" Trends in breast cancer death rates vary by state. There were declines in 36 states and the District of Columbia. These rates were unchanged in the remaining 14 states."""
@Hexl702 Go to "Coalition on Abortion / Breast Cancer" and you can read the detailed studies which demonstrate the link, and you'll see those organizations that admit it exists. Insist on your right to be smarter today than you were yesterday, and stop relying on tired-old clichés that don't stand up to reason or logic.
@Hexl702 It's interesting that you don't address my points, and you object when I don't give any time to one organization you mention. The reason I didn't give it any time is because it's outdated. The organization refuses to see the link that has been proven. In fact, doctors have left the organization because of the coverup. But given your refusal to do any research yourself, I don't expect you'll uncover that fact - or any facts. Insist on your right to be smarter today.
@Hexl702 I'm not interested in the law at this point; I'm interested in establishing the facts of abortion - for instance - when does the clump of cells become a baby? Is it okay to destroy the "clump of cells" before it becomes a baby? Is it okay to destroy the baby, regardless of size, if the need warrants? Why are the mothers not notified by "abortion providers" of all the risks associated with the "procedure" and why does Planned Parenthood make such huge profits each year?
Should abortion be illegal ? If you cant/dont want to answer, great, fine! If you just want to blather with the same moth-eaten rhetoric that has failed you guys for 40 years now -- Hexl is
@Hexl702 Sound law is based on sound principles. The reason we don't have sound abortion laws in Canada and the United States is because the existing laws are not based on sound principles. If you want to spend your time regurgitating Planned Parenthood's talking points - points neither based on truth nor reason - then have at 'er. I maintain that if you choose to exercise your brain a little - use your own intellect - use your reason, you can arrive at the truth. Cheers!
@Hexl702 It's precisely because I'm concerned about the woman that I persist on this issue? Do you honestly believe abortion is a safer, better option for the woman? Have you done ANY research about the effects of abortion on a woman (forgetting, for the time being, the effects on the baby?) Do you know about the greatly increased risks of abruptia placenta, of pelvic inflammatory disease? Of future ectopic pregnancies? Of breast cancer? Of infertility? Do you care?
Youd have to rule out a lot more factors in a womans life than that she got an abortion.
Her family history, her diet, her overall health, her age of onset of menstruation, age of children how many, stressful life, all could contribute to breast cancer.
LOL thats you guys at your old tricks, you have failed to sufficiently "evilize" abortion on its own,
so you gotta tie it in with true evils like "black genocide", "decline of the West,"
@Hexl702 Rather than speculate and conjuecture about risks to mother's health after abortion, why not just do a little research? I can list 10 organizations who have specifically studied breast cancer link - start with "Breast Cancer Prevention Institude" and "National Physicians Centre for Family Resources". You really have to focus and stop the name calling and lumping people together. You're an individual - and you have the right ot educate yourself. Cheers!
You got yer stats, i got mine . i cant find my cut n paste post, but i listed 5 major cancer org's who assert no such link.
LOL yeah, I can see how being called a "slut whore and a murderer" would contribute to a woman's stress levels, and compromise her immune system somewhat.
@Hexl702 Name-calling and profanity do nothing to further your argument, rather they show you to be uncomfortable with the truth and desiring to deflect and dodge the issue. Don't rely on any one INSTITUTE to tell you the facts. Read the studies for yourself. Invest the time! It takes time - but you obviously have some of that to spare to investigate the issue! Go on talking to me if you prefer, but certainly read the studies. AND talk to women about their experiences.
@Hexl702 It's all find and good to say it's up to a woman what risks she assumes, but what if she's not even informed about the risks? Or worse yet, what if she is LIED TO about the risks? Does that not concern you?
lol You clucks are fine ones to talk about lying to women! The cancer rates DECLINED, silly - thats a fact TOO.
Well, if you clucks want a world where women who get breast cancer have to fight accusations that they mustve gotten an abortion - have at it . As long as its still legal.
@Hexl702 Breast cancer rates among women who have had abortions have NOT declined. Look it up!! You obviously spend a lot of time on the internet. Spend some time researching! While you`re at it, you might even expand your vocab a little - you might come up with something a little more original than the tired old `prolickers`and `clucks`you`re so fond of using. Come on - insist on your right to be smarter today than you were yesterday!
@Hexl702 And you're okay with abortion being legal for ANY reason, good or bad? If you are okay, what does that say about our culture? If you are not okay, why aren't you speaking up for those situations where the reason is bad?
@Hexl702 It's precisely because of comments like yours - which serve to deflect from the real issue, label people, attempt to dodge the science and refuse to acknowledge the truth that abortion is allowed. I don't know what your personal position is, and how you would respond in various situations, and you obviously don't know mine. But personal positions don't really matter when we have facts. Why do you refuse to stick to the facts of the matter?
@Hexl702 Wrong again. I'd be delighted to discuss laws around abortion - but I certainly wouldn't want to write a law without starting with all of the facts. We've got lots of those laws already, and that's why we're at where we're at. There's no social peace on the issue, and there won't be, unless we start with first principles.
LOL thats rich coming from you. Hexl says "So you think its killing an ACTUAL BABY,
yet you wanna hem -haw
about whether that should even be punished."
Hell if I thought a fetus was an actual person, i'd say right off the bat "Abortion sounds like voluntary manslaughter. People get 10 to 25 years for that. And none of this punish the dr. only business, punish em both or not at all.""
@Hexl702 It would be effective if you would refrain from passing judgment on my "personal view", about which you know nothing. You don't know my experience nor my view, and you don't need to. And I don't want or need to know yours. You keep talking about the law, but you can't commit to what is in the woman's womb. Good law is based on sound principles - but you suggest we skip first principles. We can't arrive at a good law. (Oh -right. We don't have a good law. I rest my case.)
What I think is confusing is right wing evangelicals using the term "pro abotion". There is no such thing as pro abortion, that is just sick. Its called pro CHOICE. Also, this commercial is ridiculous. Noone would call a third trimester baby a lump of tissue or group of cells. This commercial is so hypocritical.
Well, we cant control how the pro-loafers see us. Thats old stuff, they wont abandon it anytime soon.
I'm not gonna defend myself against these assholes like I have to plead in a plaintive voice ""But but but I'm NOT proabortion!"'
I like to trap em with "Are you pro-illegality?"
Hell, if you would allow something, doesnt matter how much you spit on it or think its wrong-- youre ALLOWING it. And most pro-liquors would no more outlaw it than we would.
@Hexl702 Your post says little, except that you like to use profanity. Incidentally "won't" and "wont" mean entirely different things - it changes the meaning of your sentence. Research
I see you took the job of YouTube Anal Old Schoolmarm in a Hairnet Spellchecker,
i didnt want the job, it didnt pay nothing.
i abbreviate coz of the 500 word limit sometimes, having internet prob's and its not lettin me type all. Plus hell its only YouTube, we aint at a damn symposium here ,
hell if you clucks cant even talk until the setting is sufficiently dainty -
maybe thats why y'all have so much trouble with your own rhetoric.
@Hexl702 I'm glad you didn't take the job of "Anal Old Schoolmarm" (your words), because, based on your posts, you wouldn't do very well at it. It's apparent from your posts so far that you excel at labelling people, using profane language, dodging the issue and deflecting. While certainly those qualities may come in handy in, say a political career, they certainly don't further this debate. But I bet you looked up "wont". :)
@Hexl702 I don't have to wonder much. I guess that darn apostrophe uses up a lot of characters - and in this day and age - who really cares if a person can write when we can abbreviate and invent our spelling? Unless of course, we're actually trying to make a point, or to understand someone else's point. In that case of course, the invented spelling becomes problematic. But then, that's the point of the video - if we can confuse the issue, maybe we won't have to discuss the facts.
@MrJihadJesus I saw the video - didn't see anything about 'right wing evangelicals' in there". So when did the "lump of cells" become a baby, then - if not at the third trimester?
@blackbetts I didnt say this commercial itself has anything about "right wing evangelicals". I said: What I think is confusing is right wing evangelicals using the term "pro abotion". People have been conditioned, tricked, etc. into thinking "pro abortion" when they hear the words "pro choice". Its like how americans have been conditioned to think "communism" when they hear the word "socialism". If the term "pro abortion" is going to be used then Im going to call pro lifers "anti-choicers"
@blackbetts My personal belief is it is still a lump of tissue up through 35 days. After that it is a baby. Calling an 8 month baby a lump of tissues and cells is just ridiculous.
@MrJihadJesus But since when does our "personal view" dictate the TRUTH of a matter? Ask 10 different people on here when the "lump of cells" becomes a "baby" and I'll bet you get 10 different answers. Rather than all the personal views we should establish what the scientific facts of the matter are.
@MrJihadJesus Who's talking about pro death penalty here - or pro life? I haven't declared either of those positions? To whom are you directing your comment? And what does that have to do with the video?
Well, Yeah, if youre killing a fetus, you get the whole schmeer, legs, feet, heads lungs and all. If its THAT bad - should it be against the law, should women
go to jail, whats the crime & whats the punishment?
Ok, so....if a child dies in an armed conflict around the world, that's BAD, even if it's not intentional. Buuuuut, if mommy and/or daddy decide that their child needs to die in a "procedure", then that's just fine and dandy! Gotcha. Makes perfect sense. Riiiiiight.
Nobody's saying "fine and dandy" -- well, a few extremists maybe, but mostly people are only saying it should be legal.
Or put another way -- very FEW people are saying it should be illegal - they dont see abortion as a criminal matter to be prosecuted, but a personal wrong to be forgiven.
@Hexl702 Saying it should be legal is saying that you are "fine and dandy" with the child being killed-otheriwse you'd be fighting to protect the rights of the child as I am.
FEW people are saying it should be illegal? Have you seen the latest polls that indicate a 50-50 split roughly between pro-life vs. pro-legal-abortionists? That's not "few". Also, love the pro-life strawmen you and your buddy have been arguing with this whole time. Cute.
@Hexl702 I hope English isn't your first language. That said, abortions are RARELY perpetrated by the pregnant mothers. It's usually a sleazy doc looking for more money under the table. So, that would be more of a "hit-man" situation, not 1st degree murder.
Abortion is anything but "safe", OR "rare", and only "legal" under the pretense of failing to give ANY consideration whatsoever to the human being who loses their life, regardless of whether or not it is condoned by the American ppl
LOL i KNOW -- you clucks have watered it down to "we only want to punish the doctor'"
and it STILL hasnt gotten off the ground!
Hell - if it would be legal for a woman to GET an abortion - why should it be ILLEGAL for a doctor to perform one? Can you name any equivalent circumstance where we do this now?
@Hexl702 It wouldn't be legal for a woman to get an abortion, either. It would be a penalty along the lines of child abuse/neglect, and the woman would be able to be charged and sentenced accordingly. I'm not "watering down" anything. & yes, it HAS gotten off the ground. More legislation last year against abortion was passed than EVER BEFORE.
@Hexl702 umm...google "child dies charged with neglect". You'll find plenty of cases where POST-BIRTH children were killed by parents & the parents were charged with neglect. So no, not treating them any differently.
Good for Hexl. Too bad you're not going to be able to stop it all, especially as medical technology progresses to illustrate the complete humanity of gestating children in utero. "Right to choose"? Choose WHAT? A dead child?
@Hexl702 Well, until we can remove a child in the fetal stage alive from his/her mother&gestate them externally or adopt them to other women so they can come to term, the pregnant woman-the child's mother-has default custody&is obligated to care for and protect that child.
LOL silly -- think you got me NOW, eh? Hexl says yep, fetuses are living and human, and yet DIFFERENT from actual persons. You just remember some prochoicers better than other.
Well, if fetuses are so keen to join the club and be considered "persons" - theres times the lives of fully fledged persons can be taken and its not a crime.
What would change ? A fetus could STILL be a person you could legally kill.
@Hexl702 1.) they should be considered persons, because they are, 2.) How many instances of parents killing their healthy minor children and going unprosecuted do you usually hear about? Answer: not many, b/c it's against the law to kill your healthy, minor biological children of whom you have default custody, no matter how little you want them.
A doctor doesnt do a damn thing until the woman SAYS SO. SHE gets the big idea,
rustles up the funds for the "hit", sets the time & place for the "kill" and holds still so the "victim" can be killed, and pays off the "hitman" when its all over.
If you thought a fetus was an actual person--youd never absolve someone of that much responsibility. That all meets the criteria for contract killing. People have gotten
@Hexl702 Actually, 64% of abortions are done at the urging of a woman's partner or family member. That means "coerced", so in instances like that, she would be found even less culpable. Typically in a case, it's a hitman who would be the one threatened with the death penalty, anyway.
A human fetus IS an actual person. What do you think they are, hallucinations? They are a living member of our species. That makes them human beings like us.
@Hexl702 There are plenty of court cases to back up what I'm telling you. The original statistics I gave you were from Guttmacher. And, I know from personal experience when my daughter's father wanted me to abort her. I wish I could've gone to the police and told them his intentions for our daughter back then and had something happen more than just being told "it's your choice". Her life deserved legal protection, not a thumbs up or thumbs down from me.
LOL-- well, OF COURSE, if you clucks are gonna make women susceptible to a criminal charge, theyre gonna try to come off less like a criminal!
Bin Laden got the DP last year -- Wouldnt have done him any good to exclaim "I didnt fly any of the planes!"" I can name you a famous case, Ann Rule book about the
Jerry Harris murder, where the actual killer got 3 years and probation, and the
@Hexl702 Funny, because I DID see what happened in Mississippi! A campaign of LIES from the other side that said things like, "This legislation will make women die from ectopic pregnancies", or "this legislation will criminalize birth control!" or, "this legislation will make IVF illegal!".
I wouldn't know about "churchgoing", I'm not religious. Once we fight the lies of poor-choicers, everyone will be more willing to respect all human lives, no matter how young.
Well, its not our fault you guys suck at your message.
Arent they now more carefully wording it for the next time - LOL werent you guys supposed to carefully word the law in the first place, hell youve had FORTY YEARS
Depends on how you do it. People dont want to lock women up in prison for this. Some things we're just dont want to force at thepoint of a gun, not even noble things, not even childbirth.
@Hexl702 killing one's child-regardless of age or stage of development-is not just "a personal wrong to be forgiven", otherwise Child Protective Services would not exist.
The proloafers are not above being dishonest themselves. Go take a look at that Jill Stanek video - where they used an obviously 3 week old baby to stand in for a 23 -26 week old fetus.
Why would they do that -- a 23-weeker didnt look cute enough or baby-ish enough
@blackbetts ""24 weeks gestation, who DO live outside womb, okay to kill em?"
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt. If its an abortion to save the woman's life, the pro-lickers say they support those.
If its a criminal case where a doctor kills a viable newborn outside the womb, he gets charged with murder. This happened just last year. We're already looking out for em.
LOL silly - It REALLY is a fetus. Nobody's lying about that.
It's not "evil incarnate"" to use the scientific term to describe it. We have a word for it specifically because its a particular thing.
Yep, a woman hugs her stomach, names it beforehand and buys cute clothes and diapers beforehand. But she knows its UNBORN, eh? Women know that much, dont they ? They know theyre hugging their stomach, not an actual baby.
Honestly, it's the mother's choice. This us just as manipulative as the side you're fighting. Why force a child into a situation where they could be hated and resented for even existing, or maybe, a situation where they cant even be cared for properly, with a mother so young she's just a child herself, or one so poor they don't even have clean diapers to wear, or so sick the birth itself could kill her! Don't force a child to live an unwanted life!
No, she is accurately using her terms of endearment for the baby she intends to have. That doesn't disprove an opinion that her fetus is not her baby, but will become her baby. I'm not arguing for abortion rights with that statement, just repeating my earlier argument against this video: English is not good at referring to non-people that become people, and we should not use semantics to determine rights.
(Similarly, "mother" has both bio & culture definitions, gravida ≠ mother.)
The use of the word "baby" to refer to an embryo or fetus is a sign of looking forward to that embryo or fetus's development and birth. It is imprecise but convenient in pre-natal care. This video conflates our terms of hope and endearment for the future with medical terms of precision for the present in an attempt to win this argument through semantics. The English language has not developed good words to refer to non-people that become people, and this is not remarkable.
So, when a mother is singing to her "fetus" in the womb, the same fetus whose feet she is able to feel, is she conflating her terms of hope and endearment when she sings "Hush little baby"? And likewise, is she out of line buying sleepers, diapers, a crib, etc for the "non person" inside her? Come on - we're smarter than that, are we not?
Abortion is murder, plain and simple. If I kill a pregnant woman its double homicide, but if that woman kills her unborn baby its freedom of choice. What about mothers who do drugs? There are penalties for that, UNLESS you take an FDA approved drug that outright kills the baby, once again its than considered freedom of choice. Where do the double standards stop?
@seanipie It's not a double-standard, it's common sense. It's part of the woman's body and therefore her jurisdiction. If she shares her personhood w/ it, b/c the fetus has no personhood of it's own ON it's own, then it's a baby. If not, then it's not. It's quite simple.
What cracks me up about the pro-loafers -- Pin em down and most will say
""Er um .. hem haw.. Well as much as I hate abortion, i dont want to make it a criminal charge and women dont need to be arrested & put in jail (IE Sarah Palin)
Hell- if you would alllow it to be killed without any legal sanction -- being called a ""fetus""
Can a person be pro life, and pro choice??? God is! Check out my uploads. This commercial is great. I would love to see it on tv everywhere. I'd have to be a tv watcher to see it though. lol
Wow. That's demeaning to a human life to call it a "blob". Makes it sound unimportant and cheap. I guess some people think life is cheap. But then again, they only think that way because they were not aborted.
@yellowlikesunshine1 So you actually do care about the personhood of prenatal entities. So we can agree that once it develops some brain and vital organ function, it is no longer ethical to abort. Great, this happens around 5 weeks before most women realize they are pregnant.
Evidently, they do have the legal "right". But because something is legal, is it necessarily "right"?
And what is "abortion"? When you say, "People should have the right to abortion", what are you talking about? I can respect a person who calls it like it is - without speaking in euphemisms.
@blackbetts i just mean they should have the option available to them. it would be a not so great situation if a baby posed a threat to a mother and she would not be able to have an abortion to protect her from that threat.
I would abort in a heart beat if I found out my birth control and the condoms failed. Me and my husband never want children and the adoption system in this country is messed up of course I would abort. And guess what? My abortion is none of your mother fucking business and doesn't affect you in any way shape or form so shut the hell up and try living your life not controlling others especially when they don't effect you actually benefit you since we have over population.
@wolfy4815226 it's still not a living human because if you take it off from the mother's body it would die. Something that is not sustainable by itself it's not really a living being.
@userunknozn So if I need CPR, an AED, or life support...I'm not a living being either, and nothing should be done to try to preserve my "non-life"? Can you offer a definition of personhood and life which excludes say, coma patients or severe mental handicaps? Or are you saying these should also be "allowed to die"?
@LoveThyNeighbor7 how long would you keep someone in coma? For ages? Until your little ego is satisfied knowing the body is right there just for you and not a rotting corpse? How long people like you are going to spread these close-minded speeches?
"Free will" do you know? Have you ever heard that word in your existence? Does it make sense to you? If we were given free will it is to be used! Don't be a fanatic please.
@userunknozn "Something that is not sustainable by itself it's not really a living being." I'm referring to your definition for denying personhood. Coma patients can't live without nutrients. Some handicaps require constant O2 supply. Are these entities also not "living beings"? I am saying that the logic of your definition is flawed. Has nothing to do with my ego or free will and if you want to be open-minded, deal with my actual response instead of ad hom-ing.
@LoveThyNeighbor7 damn I never planned to answer your comment cuz tbh I got better things to do but youtube updates me with new comments. Anyway talking abt coma I think you cannot keep someone plugged for ages. I dont want to get into personal data but my grandpa had a stroke this summer and was really bad. I prayed for his full recovery or his death but didn't want him to be disabled or suffering. If I was selfish I'd have wanted him alive no matter what. Thats the difference
Are you able to define your terms? Free will for whom? The person in the coma? The baby in the womb? The father of the babies in the wombs? The mother's, sometimes forced to abort against her will? Perhaps if you refrain from the inflammatory language and stick to first principles, we would get somewhere.
@blackbetts Free will for the only person able to take a decision. You wouldn't let a vegetable or a fruit take the decision for you right? Between the mother and the child the only one able to take the decision is the mum. Especially when the baby is using her body. Im not saying that the baby should be aborted at 8months but abortion at 3 weeks is perfectly correct. Everybody makes mistakes. If you never made a single one raise your hand.
@userunknozn Who's talking about mistakes? If it's okay to "abort" (whatever that means - we still haven't defined the terms) up until some elusive point - exactly when the "lump of cells" (or whatever - still haven't narrowed down on that one either) is "independent" (whatever that means), then why is there a "mistake" involved. Either it's right - and there's no mistake involved, or it's not right. Who cares about "opinions"?
@blackbetts I don't have any words since you like putting terms to everything. To me it's a kind of process my body started without my approval and that I want to end. I am a responsible person and whenever I have sex I use the contraceptive pill and/or condoms. Which means I should not face an unwanted pregnancy but if by any unfortunate chance I happened to be pregnant, I'd be glad the abortion option could be offered to me. Of course I wouldnt wait for ages!
Abortion is a euphemism for murder.
/watch?v=Ntjjnz3KCy4
AthosAmo 11 hours ago
@xalisae
Let hexl congratulate you on at least having the guts to answer the question "Should abortion be illegal?"
If I recall, you want women to suffer some sort of child abuse charge or the equivalent,
people get 4-5 years for that in most courts IIRC.
None of this "lets discuss the finer points first!" for you. You came right out and said
it. Hexl likes that.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 Good. I'm glad you can appreciate it and like that. As a mother, I can't imagine doing anything to harm one of my children, so it's quite easy to imagine a penalty for a mother who does.
xalisae 20 hours ago
If a woman doesnt want to be that 1 in 100,000, risking her life getting an abortion, no one will force her . Thats the beauty of choice.
Hexl702 1 day ago
""abortion causes breast cancer " - LOL Richard Rountree mustve gotten an abortion, and he's not even a woman!
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 That's an original reply - you don't have anything to say so you use profanity. Rather than talk about fantasic situations, why not focus on reality? There IS a link to breast cancer, and there IS a link to perforated uterus, and there IS a link to future miscarriages, and there IS a link to all kinds of ugly conditions for the mother. But Planned Parenthood certainly doesn't want you to know that! Insist on your right ot be smarter today than you were yesterday!
blackbetts 1 day ago
@blackbetts
LOL yes Ive seen the pro-lite clucks use the same names from 1986 overandoverandoverandover. Theres fewer than 10 deaths a year out of a million.
That IS safe -
i dont see how safe can get any safer.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 Where did you get that inaccurate stat? And why is 10 deaths a year from a "safe procedure" from a "safe provider" acceptable? Why would even one death be?
blackbetts 1 day ago
@blackbetts
LOL not this crap again! "One death is too many," hell no one would ever get on a plane, drive in rush hour traffic, eat peanut butter or even get on a roller coaster.
10 deaths out of a million - must translate into 000.0001% - can YouTube even detect such a small figure, lol what a shitty tactic, trying to scare
women with a 000.0001% death rate.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 The ignornant spouting of incorrect, misleading, plain erroneous information is what results in the damage to so many women who suffer the effects of abortion. Rather than name-calling, why don't you take the time to investigate the side-effects of abortion, (& I don't mean the dead babies - we both know about THAT side effect). I challenge you - investigate all for yourself (there's a thought!) what the real "side effects' of the "abortion procedure" are.
blackbetts 17 hours ago
@Hexl702 Death is only one of the very possible side effects of abortion - but there are many others. Abortion HURTS women! Why do you refuse to research the topic about which there is so much solid scientific research? The effects are real, and they`re awful! The dead babies are one tragic effect of abortion. The very real illnesses suffered by the mothers who procured them are another side effect? Are you afraid to investigate the effects on the mother?
blackbetts 17 hours ago
@blackbetts ""there IS a link to breast cancer""
And im sure there IS a link to family history, a link to diet, a link to stress levels, etc.
You guys are trying to make cancer fit because you hate abortion, i get it.
Hexl702 1 day ago
You dont hate abortion because it causes cancer - youre trying to make cancer fit because you hate abortion.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 I never talked about "hating abortion". You repeatedly try to put words in my mouth, when you're not labelling me and using profanity. Why is that necessary? Why is the truth not sufficient for you? Why are you so afraid of the truth? Have some courage!
blackbetts 1 day ago
"""abortion affects a man ""
Hell havent men had FORTY YEARS to learn that if you sleep with a woman, she might
get pregnant and since abortion is legal, she could kill the fetus while he stands helplessly
by?
Speaking of "smarter" - men brag all the time theyre the logical, rational ones unlike us
overemotional women. Yet they act amazed that women can abort.
Hexl702 2 days ago
@Hexl702 Yeah - that affirms what I was saying about a bad law. Just because the law exists doesn't means it's good. Just because a person is legally allowed to do something doesn't make it right. Hitler, anyone?
blackbetts 2 days ago
"""Innocent life should never be killed""
Beautiful sentiment, wonderful expression - lasts all of 10 seconds in the real world. Even pro-liquors are for rape/incest/health of woman abortions.
Hexl702 3 days ago
@Hexl702 Try to define your terms. What do you mean "innocent life" - do you mean the beef cow who provides my steak for dinner - that life? Do you mean the lettuce and veggies that make my salad? Is that the "life" to which you're referring. Here's an idea - let's try defining our terms? How about we, oh - I don't know - I feel like I may have said this before, but it doesn't seem to be registering - um - start with first principles?
blackbetts 3 days ago
@blackbetts
lol - if fetuses want to join the club, and be regarded as a person just like everyone else - theyd have to accept theres times they could be legally killed just like us.
Hexl702 2 days ago
@Hexl702 You sure put a lot of stock in the laws - especially bad ones. Just because there's a law about something doesn't necessarily make it right. Insist on your right to be smarter today than you were yesterday.
blackbetts 2 days ago
@blackbetts
LOL Silly - Hexl has told prolickers this 83498843948 times - ""legal doesnt
mean right, it simply means legal."" I can be found on any abortion forum, telling them that.
Abortion may be bad, but it isnt THAT bad, or it would be illegal.
Hexl702 2 days ago
@Hexl702 You say "Abortion may be bad, but it isnt THAT bad, or it would be illegal."
Are you serious? Because it's legal it can't be THAT bad? Do you need historical examples to refute this, or do you think you can come up with a few on your own. You mentioned earlier that your state wasn't strong in education. Stop waiting for the education system or the government to educate you, and take that responsibility on yourself. Insist on your right to be smarter today than yesterday.
blackbetts 2 days ago
@blackbetts ""good law is based on sound principles ""
In U.S. you can kill fully fledged human beings, whose personhood is in no doubt whatsoever, and under
certain circumstances its not criminal, hell sometimes its even okay
Hexl702 3 days ago
@Hexl702 You misinterpret me: I said "GOOD law". I know about your laws in the states around babies in the womb. Only in Canada are they worse.
blackbetts 3 days ago
@blackbetts
Heres some science for ya - the fetus is enclosed within the woman, not 3rd party
uninvolved pro-lifters. I think the person affected decides what the outcome should be.
Some pro-loafer's nterest in a woman's pregnancy is emotional, sentimental or ( professorial in yer case, apparently)
but for her, its PHYSICAL. Thats different. Its HER call whether she goes through the 9 months.
Hexl702 4 days ago
@Hexl702 If you think the person affected decides what the outcome should be, and you already referred to that thing in the woman's womb as a "baby", why are you not interested in consulting the baby about what the outcome should be? And why not the father? Why are you advocating for NO rights for the father? Is that what the feminist movement has become? All rights to the woman - none to the children or fathers?
blackbetts 3 days ago
@blackbetts
Consulting the baby - Fetuses cant talk LOL hell do you guys go around asking fetuses to weigh in on various issues, wonder what their opinion would be on Obama's latest tax plans.
""Why not the father""
Because men dont split the pregnancy 50/50 with the woman. Its her body, its her call. If you gave a man power to overrule her - if a man that could force a woman to birth, could force her to abort.
Hexl702 3 days ago
@Hexl702 The woman's body is the woman's body, but the baby's body is neither hers nor his father's. The baby's body is his own. Feminism has brought us to this; the man has NO rights? I guess shouldn't find it surprising when I read about the male captain and male crew workers on a cruise ship who push women and children aside to save themselves. Who said anything about giving the man power to "over rule" the woman? If you have issues to work through, don't foist them on me!
blackbetts 3 days ago
@blackbetts
LOL - tell us how a man would exercise his "right" to carry a fetus to term -- this shold be good, hexl loves a good laugh!
Hexl702 2 days ago
@Hexl702 You sure spend a lot of time LOL ing on here; considering the subject matter, that's a sad commentary. So, I guess the day after the baby is born, given that the mother carried the baby for nine months, you'd be okay with her killing the baby? I mean, if the baby was too much for her, and after all, she carried him for nine months, what business would the father have butting in at that point? Or at ANY point for that matter?
blackbetts 2 days ago
@blackbetts
Abortion isnt funny, its a bloody mess& looks awful.
You guys, on the hand, are hilarious most of the time& i cant help it if i think so.
Espec. when you accuse me of being "okay w/ killing the baby."" Hexl doesnt go to bat for women who abort at 9 mos (if there even is such a thng). I support a womans right to get un-pregnant. Someone who wants to be un-pregnant after shes BEEN preg for 6, 7 months loses me. But thats not realy the issue to me, 00.00001% of em.
Hexl702 2 days ago
@Hexl702 Well, because you seem to be ignorant of the facts, in Canada, there is no abortion law, so yes - a woman can (and many do) at nine months. And if she goes a week past her due date, and the baby is 9 pounds, she still can abort. As far as your stats, are you kidding about the numbers? Why don't you ask Planned Parenthood for their stats about the numbers of women aborting at each stage. And about defining terms, "un-pregnant" is one more attempt to mask. What do you mean?
blackbetts 2 days ago
@blackbetts
Im not concerned about 000.00001% of the abortions. We could do that to you clucks,
ask you to weigh in on the 11 year old pregnant child who will almost certainly die if forced to give birth. This happened just last year IIRC.
Hell if Dr Gosnell got arrested for murder - then we already ARE taking care of them
thar 9 month abortions.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 Where did you come up with the 0.00001% of abortions, and which group is that to which you're referring? And why do you refuse to address my questions regarding the health of the mother as a result of an abortion? The numbers of women who die as a result of unsafe abortions at "safe" abortion clinics is far higher than the number of women who die as a result of childbirth. Look it up! Insist on your right to be smarter today than you were yesterday!
blackbetts 1 day ago
@blackbetts
That bad, eh? SHould abortion be illegal?
Hexl702 1 day ago
@blackbetts
LOL youre blathering about our abortion laws and youre not even American?
Butt out of our business!
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 There you go again, jumping to conclusions. How do you know I'm not American? Ever heard of dual citizenship? Ever heard of an American living or working out of the country? Branch out a little!
blackbetts 1 day ago
@blackbetts ""but the babys body is neither hers nor the fathers""
Its HER uterus. The woman gets the say so over what happens to her, bodily and physically,
Pregnancy/childbirth carries a 2-5% risk of death, a 7% increased chance of being
beaten up/ murdered by your man - i think its up to a woman what risks she assumes.
Hexl702 2 days ago
@Hexl702 I'm not talking about her uterus. You said earlier that the person being affected should make the decision. The baby is affected and so is the father. So you were disingenuous in your claim. I'm talking about the baby's life. And for the vast majority of men and women who use abortion as a means of birth control, (rather than out of fear of dropping dead from the pregnancy or fear of being beaten up), do different rules apply to them? Or is it the same goes for everybody?
blackbetts 2 days ago
@blackbetts
Er um i think the WOMAN is affected most of all. LOL when you DO let 3rd
party uninvolved strangers weigh in on your medical decisions and overrule you? Have you ever done it even once ?
Hexl702 2 days ago
@Hexl702 Yes - the woman IS affected by abortion. There are very detrimental effects on her body, including the increased risk of all kinds of ugly complications and future medical and psychological illnesses. I trust if you're serious about this, you'll investigate. Why aren't you putting pressure on Planned Parenthood and other "abortion providers" to divulge that information? While in most cases, the mother survives the abortion, the baby is dead.
blackbetts 2 days ago
@blackbetts
You guys dont have the stats to back up those claims. With some 50 million abortions, must translate into 30-35 million women. The numbers wouldnt just go up, theyd have EXPLODED.
Thats not what happened (from Am. Cancer Society's 2011 report) : "" Trends in breast cancer death rates vary by state. There were declines in 36 states and the District of Columbia. These rates were unchanged in the remaining 14 states."""
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 Go to "Coalition on Abortion / Breast Cancer" and you can read the detailed studies which demonstrate the link, and you'll see those organizations that admit it exists. Insist on your right to be smarter today than you were yesterday, and stop relying on tired-old clichés that don't stand up to reason or logic.
blackbetts 1 day ago
@blackbetts
LOL - I have yet to see a single one that wasnt backed by or otherwise sponsored by the rightwads or fundies. Hardly an objective source.
LOL you didnt have a response to my post where the annual report said the
breast cancer rates had DECLINED or either remained unchanged. I'd ignore it too
if it didnt make my point.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 It's interesting that you don't address my points, and you object when I don't give any time to one organization you mention. The reason I didn't give it any time is because it's outdated. The organization refuses to see the link that has been proven. In fact, doctors have left the organization because of the coverup. But given your refusal to do any research yourself, I don't expect you'll uncover that fact - or any facts. Insist on your right to be smarter today.
blackbetts 1 day ago
@blackbetts
Im not real serious about this. YOU guys are the ones who have to be serious.
Should abortion be a criminal charge, either murder or manslaughter?
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 I'm not interested in the law at this point; I'm interested in establishing the facts of abortion - for instance - when does the clump of cells become a baby? Is it okay to destroy the "clump of cells" before it becomes a baby? Is it okay to destroy the baby, regardless of size, if the need warrants? Why are the mothers not notified by "abortion providers" of all the risks associated with the "procedure" and why does Planned Parenthood make such huge profits each year?
blackbetts 1 day ago
@blackbetts
Should abortion be illegal ? If you cant/dont want to answer, great, fine! If you just want to blather with the same moth-eaten rhetoric that has failed you guys for 40 years now -- Hexl is
pro free speech.
I'd worry if you clucks were SERIOUS.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@blackbetts """Im not interested in the law at this point"'
Thats what Hexl wants to hear! Say no more!
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 Sound law is based on sound principles. The reason we don't have sound abortion laws in Canada and the United States is because the existing laws are not based on sound principles. If you want to spend your time regurgitating Planned Parenthood's talking points - points neither based on truth nor reason - then have at 'er. I maintain that if you choose to exercise your brain a little - use your own intellect - use your reason, you can arrive at the truth. Cheers!
blackbetts 17 hours ago
@blackbetts ""Im not talking about her uterus ""
LOL, Yeah,no kidding, I noticed that !
But you cant bypass the woman or sidestep her.
You HAVE to deal with her. You clucks always show a fetus all by itself as if
its a stand-alone. Well, it isnt.
Yet again hexl asks -- what would you bubs do to the woman who wants an abortion,
if you had yer druthers?
Hexl702 2 days ago
@Hexl702 It's precisely because I'm concerned about the woman that I persist on this issue? Do you honestly believe abortion is a safer, better option for the woman? Have you done ANY research about the effects of abortion on a woman (forgetting, for the time being, the effects on the baby?) Do you know about the greatly increased risks of abruptia placenta, of pelvic inflammatory disease? Of future ectopic pregnancies? Of breast cancer? Of infertility? Do you care?
blackbetts 2 days ago
@blackbetts
Youd have to rule out a lot more factors in a womans life than that she got an abortion.
Her family history, her diet, her overall health, her age of onset of menstruation, age of children how many, stressful life, all could contribute to breast cancer.
LOL thats you guys at your old tricks, you have failed to sufficiently "evilize" abortion on its own,
so you gotta tie it in with true evils like "black genocide", "decline of the West,"
and now "cancer."
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 Rather than speculate and conjuecture about risks to mother's health after abortion, why not just do a little research? I can list 10 organizations who have specifically studied breast cancer link - start with "Breast Cancer Prevention Institude" and "National Physicians Centre for Family Resources". You really have to focus and stop the name calling and lumping people together. You're an individual - and you have the right ot educate yourself. Cheers!
blackbetts 1 day ago
@blackbetts
You got yer stats, i got mine . i cant find my cut n paste post, but i listed 5 major cancer org's who assert no such link.
LOL yeah, I can see how being called a "slut whore and a murderer" would contribute to a woman's stress levels, and compromise her immune system somewhat.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 Name-calling and profanity do nothing to further your argument, rather they show you to be uncomfortable with the truth and desiring to deflect and dodge the issue. Don't rely on any one INSTITUTE to tell you the facts. Read the studies for yourself. Invest the time! It takes time - but you obviously have some of that to spare to investigate the issue! Go on talking to me if you prefer, but certainly read the studies. AND talk to women about their experiences.
blackbetts 1 day ago
@blackbetts "" do nothing to further your argument"'
LOL silly - Abortion is LEGAL. I cant "hurt the cause", abortion cant be any more legal than it already is! And i cant detract from its legality.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@blackbetts
Like i said -- its up to a woman what risks she assumes. If all that is true, i would only wnat abortion to be safer, not illegal.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 It's all find and good to say it's up to a woman what risks she assumes, but what if she's not even informed about the risks? Or worse yet, what if she is LIED TO about the risks? Does that not concern you?
blackbetts 1 day ago
@blackbetts ""What if she is LIED TO""
lol You clucks are fine ones to talk about lying to women! The cancer rates DECLINED, silly - thats a fact TOO.
Well, if you clucks want a world where women who get breast cancer have to fight accusations that they mustve gotten an abortion - have at it . As long as its still legal.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 Breast cancer rates among women who have had abortions have NOT declined. Look it up!! You obviously spend a lot of time on the internet. Spend some time researching! While you`re at it, you might even expand your vocab a little - you might come up with something a little more original than the tired old `prolickers`and `clucks`you`re so fond of using. Come on - insist on your right to be smarter today than you were yesterday!
blackbetts 17 hours ago
@blackbetts ""do different rules apply to them""
I believe abortion is legal for ANY reason -- good or bad.
Hexl702 2 days ago
@Hexl702 And you're okay with abortion being legal for ANY reason, good or bad? If you are okay, what does that say about our culture? If you are not okay, why aren't you speaking up for those situations where the reason is bad?
blackbetts 2 days ago
@blackbetts ""you wouldnt do very well at it..dont further this debate""
The pro-loafers have patted their own back for having the upper intellectual hand
through all 39 years of Roe.
Theyve congratulated themselves on being MasterDebators through all 50 million abortions.
Hexl702 4 days ago
@Hexl702 It's precisely because of comments like yours - which serve to deflect from the real issue, label people, attempt to dodge the science and refuse to acknowledge the truth that abortion is allowed. I don't know what your personal position is, and how you would respond in various situations, and you obviously don't know mine. But personal positions don't really matter when we have facts. Why do you refuse to stick to the facts of the matter?
blackbetts 3 days ago
@blackbetts
Well, I got what i wanted out of you. You dont wanna discuss making a law
making abortion illegal and putting women in jail You wanna discuss other things.
Hexl is pro-free speech, thats not a serious threat to the right to choose. I wont
stop ya ; )
Hexl702 3 days ago
@Hexl702 Wrong again. I'd be delighted to discuss laws around abortion - but I certainly wouldn't want to write a law without starting with all of the facts. We've got lots of those laws already, and that's why we're at where we're at. There's no social peace on the issue, and there won't be, unless we start with first principles.
blackbetts 3 days ago
@blackbetts
LOL thats rich coming from you. Hexl says "So you think its killing an ACTUAL BABY,
yet you wanna hem -haw
about whether that should even be punished."
Hell if I thought a fetus was an actual person, i'd say right off the bat "Abortion sounds like voluntary manslaughter. People get 10 to 25 years for that. And none of this punish the dr. only business, punish em both or not at all.""
Hexl702 4 days ago
@Hexl702 It would be effective if you would refrain from passing judgment on my "personal view", about which you know nothing. You don't know my experience nor my view, and you don't need to. And I don't want or need to know yours. You keep talking about the law, but you can't commit to what is in the woman's womb. Good law is based on sound principles - but you suggest we skip first principles. We can't arrive at a good law. (Oh -right. We don't have a good law. I rest my case.)
blackbetts 3 days ago
Yep our relative was pregnant all last year, and gave birth in Sept and all through it, we called
him "the baby", by his name, cooed and sang to her stomach, bought clothes and cute things in anticipation
But theres a big difference between my emotions and public policy for 150 million U.S. women. After all that we're still politically pro choice.
Hexl702 5 days ago
What I think is confusing is right wing evangelicals using the term "pro abotion". There is no such thing as pro abortion, that is just sick. Its called pro CHOICE. Also, this commercial is ridiculous. Noone would call a third trimester baby a lump of tissue or group of cells. This commercial is so hypocritical.
MrJihadJesus 5 days ago
@MrJihadJesus
Well, we cant control how the pro-loafers see us. Thats old stuff, they wont abandon it anytime soon.
I'm not gonna defend myself against these assholes like I have to plead in a plaintive voice ""But but but I'm NOT proabortion!"'
I like to trap em with "Are you pro-illegality?"
Hell, if you would allow something, doesnt matter how much you spit on it or think its wrong-- youre ALLOWING it. And most pro-liquors would no more outlaw it than we would.
Hexl702 5 days ago
@Hexl702 Your post says little, except that you like to use profanity. Incidentally "won't" and "wont" mean entirely different things - it changes the meaning of your sentence. Research
blackbetts 5 days ago
@blackbetts
I see you took the job of YouTube Anal Old Schoolmarm in a Hairnet Spellchecker,
i didnt want the job, it didnt pay nothing.
i abbreviate coz of the 500 word limit sometimes, having internet prob's and its not lettin me type all. Plus hell its only YouTube, we aint at a damn symposium here ,
hell if you clucks cant even talk until the setting is sufficiently dainty -
maybe thats why y'all have so much trouble with your own rhetoric.
Hexl702 5 days ago
@Hexl702 I'm glad you didn't take the job of "Anal Old Schoolmarm" (your words), because, based on your posts, you wouldn't do very well at it. It's apparent from your posts so far that you excel at labelling people, using profane language, dodging the issue and deflecting. While certainly those qualities may come in handy in, say a political career, they certainly don't further this debate. But I bet you looked up "wont". :)
blackbetts 4 days ago
@blackbetts """you wouldnt do very well at it""
lol - well maybe not hexl in particular, i was edumacated in a rightwing red state that
always ranked #45 in edumacation and the good teachers always left here for other states.
But prochoicers as a group - apparently have done all TOO WELL at it, you guys
are always bitching about what theyve done with the words "choice." Hell look at this
here video - The language of abortion, indeed!
Hexl702 4 days ago
@blackbetts "" bet you looked up wont""
LOL - or maybe i already knew what wont means, i just abbreviated for brevity.
I'll never tell, its more fun to let you go crazy wondering.
Hexl702 4 days ago
@Hexl702 I don't have to wonder much. I guess that darn apostrophe uses up a lot of characters - and in this day and age - who really cares if a person can write when we can abbreviate and invent our spelling? Unless of course, we're actually trying to make a point, or to understand someone else's point. In that case of course, the invented spelling becomes problematic. But then, that's the point of the video - if we can confuse the issue, maybe we won't have to discuss the facts.
blackbetts 3 days ago
@MrJihadJesus I saw the video - didn't see anything about 'right wing evangelicals' in there". So when did the "lump of cells" become a baby, then - if not at the third trimester?
blackbetts 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@blackbetts I didnt say this commercial itself has anything about "right wing evangelicals". I said: What I think is confusing is right wing evangelicals using the term "pro abotion". People have been conditioned, tricked, etc. into thinking "pro abortion" when they hear the words "pro choice". Its like how americans have been conditioned to think "communism" when they hear the word "socialism". If the term "pro abortion" is going to be used then Im going to call pro lifers "anti-choicers"
MrJihadJesus 5 days ago
@blackbetts My personal belief is it is still a lump of tissue up through 35 days. After that it is a baby. Calling an 8 month baby a lump of tissues and cells is just ridiculous.
MrJihadJesus 5 days ago
@MrJihadJesus But since when does our "personal view" dictate the TRUTH of a matter? Ask 10 different people on here when the "lump of cells" becomes a "baby" and I'll bet you get 10 different answers. Rather than all the personal views we should establish what the scientific facts of the matter are.
blackbetts 4 days ago
@blackbetts I also think its funny that in america you can be pro death penalty and pro life at the same time.
MrJihadJesus 5 days ago
@MrJihadJesus Who's talking about pro death penalty here - or pro life? I haven't declared either of those positions? To whom are you directing your comment? And what does that have to do with the video?
blackbetts 4 days ago
@xalisae ""latest polls, 50/50 split"
50 million abortions is a poll TOO - its a vote, too, thats what we call "voting
with your feet.""
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 Yep. Lots of tiny little feet.
benabaxter 1 week ago
@benabaxter
Well, Yeah, if youre killing a fetus, you get the whole schmeer, legs, feet, heads lungs and all. If its THAT bad - should it be against the law, should women
go to jail, whats the crime & whats the punishment?
Hexl702 6 days ago
Ok, so....if a child dies in an armed conflict around the world, that's BAD, even if it's not intentional. Buuuuut, if mommy and/or daddy decide that their child needs to die in a "procedure", then that's just fine and dandy! Gotcha. Makes perfect sense. Riiiiiight.
xalisae 1 week ago
@xalisae
Nobody's saying "fine and dandy" -- well, a few extremists maybe, but mostly people are only saying it should be legal.
Or put another way -- very FEW people are saying it should be illegal - they dont see abortion as a criminal matter to be prosecuted, but a personal wrong to be forgiven.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 Saying it should be legal is saying that you are "fine and dandy" with the child being killed-otheriwse you'd be fighting to protect the rights of the child as I am.
FEW people are saying it should be illegal? Have you seen the latest polls that indicate a 50-50 split roughly between pro-life vs. pro-legal-abortionists? That's not "few". Also, love the pro-life strawmen you and your buddy have been arguing with this whole time. Cute.
xalisae 1 week ago
@xalisae ""pro-lite vas pro legal legislation?""
WHAT law you proposing - abortion should be a charge of 1st degree murder -- remember
""a fetus is an actual person being deliberately killed for no good reason """- gotta do it justice!
Great, we'll stack "abortion should be 1st deg. murder " against "safe, legal and rare,"
and we'll see which one goes over better with the american people.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 I hope English isn't your first language. That said, abortions are RARELY perpetrated by the pregnant mothers. It's usually a sleazy doc looking for more money under the table. So, that would be more of a "hit-man" situation, not 1st degree murder.
Abortion is anything but "safe", OR "rare", and only "legal" under the pretense of failing to give ANY consideration whatsoever to the human being who loses their life, regardless of whether or not it is condoned by the American ppl
xalisae 1 week ago
@xalisae
LOL i KNOW -- you clucks have watered it down to "we only want to punish the doctor'"
and it STILL hasnt gotten off the ground!
Hell - if it would be legal for a woman to GET an abortion - why should it be ILLEGAL for a doctor to perform one? Can you name any equivalent circumstance where we do this now?
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 It wouldn't be legal for a woman to get an abortion, either. It would be a penalty along the lines of child abuse/neglect, and the woman would be able to be charged and sentenced accordingly. I'm not "watering down" anything. & yes, it HAS gotten off the ground. More legislation last year against abortion was passed than EVER BEFORE.
xalisae 1 week ago
@xalisae ""it would be penalty along the lines of child abuse/neglect""
LOL -- equating "murder" with child abuse/neglect, are ya? Treating fetuses differently after all.
Well, hexl doesnt think women should be subject to ANY prosecution, at all.
A lotta legislation has been stopped, too (MS personhood amendment for one)
Our states sonogram law is on hold while its being fought in the courts.
You cant infringe on a womans right to choose, its the law of the land.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 umm...google "child dies charged with neglect". You'll find plenty of cases where POST-BIRTH children were killed by parents & the parents were charged with neglect. So no, not treating them any differently.
Good for Hexl. Too bad you're not going to be able to stop it all, especially as medical technology progresses to illustrate the complete humanity of gestating children in utero. "Right to choose"? Choose WHAT? A dead child?
xalisae 1 week ago
@xalisae
LOL -- Lets say a woman calls up the 'hitman", makes appt. for the hit & is walking up to the clinic where the "hit" will take place.
She sees a buncha screaming prolickers outside, calling her a slut & a babykiller.
Jesus comes into her heart and she changes her mind, she turns around goes home.
In yer tiny mind -is that the equiv. of attempted murder? Wanda Holloway the Texas Cheerleader mom initially got 10 years for much the same thing.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@xalisae ""chose WHAT a dead child?""
Nope- to end the pregnancy. Hexl doesnt atttribute women with that kind of malice aforethought. Women dont want a fetus DEAD,
they just want it OUT. Its not womens fault we cant remove a fetus alive yet, maybe someday we will.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 Well, until we can remove a child in the fetal stage alive from his/her mother&gestate them externally or adopt them to other women so they can come to term, the pregnant woman-the child's mother-has default custody&is obligated to care for and protect that child.
xalisae 1 day ago
@xalisae ""is obligated to care for and protect that child""
LOL - who made up this obligation and who enforces it?
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 The United States, and Child Protective Services. Have you not ever heard of them?
xalisae 20 hours ago
@Hexl702 By the way, you never told me what YOU believe living human fetuses are. Still curious about that.
xalisae 1 week ago
@xalisae
LOL silly -- think you got me NOW, eh? Hexl says yep, fetuses are living and human, and yet DIFFERENT from actual persons. You just remember some prochoicers better than other.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 They are living and human. By definition that makes them human beings. By definition that ALSO makes them persons.
xalisae 1 day ago
@xalisae "makes them persons""
Well, if fetuses are so keen to join the club and be considered "persons" - theres times the lives of fully fledged persons can be taken and its not a crime.
What would change ? A fetus could STILL be a person you could legally kill.
Hexl702 1 day ago
@Hexl702 1.) they should be considered persons, because they are, 2.) How many instances of parents killing their healthy minor children and going unprosecuted do you usually hear about? Answer: not many, b/c it's against the law to kill your healthy, minor biological children of whom you have default custody, no matter how little you want them.
xalisae 20 hours ago
@xalisae
A doctor doesnt do a damn thing until the woman SAYS SO. SHE gets the big idea,
rustles up the funds for the "hit", sets the time & place for the "kill" and holds still so the "victim" can be killed, and pays off the "hitman" when its all over.
If you thought a fetus was an actual person--youd never absolve someone of that much responsibility. That all meets the criteria for contract killing. People have gotten
the death penalty for that.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 Actually, 64% of abortions are done at the urging of a woman's partner or family member. That means "coerced", so in instances like that, she would be found even less culpable. Typically in a case, it's a hitman who would be the one threatened with the death penalty, anyway.
A human fetus IS an actual person. What do you think they are, hallucinations? They are a living member of our species. That makes them human beings like us.
xalisae 1 week ago
@xalisae
Some prolickers say "if you only have rape exceptions, every woman will claim she was raped!"
You just gave em an even bigger "out" - "I was coerced!" LOL now pro-loofas complain "Now every woman's gonna claim "he made me do it!" "
Methinks you wouldnt accept that crap from a woman who killed an actual child,
can you just hear Casey Anthony or Diane Downs saying "My boyfriend FORCED me to do it"
The fact youd treat fetuses differently, says you think theyre different.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 There are plenty of court cases to back up what I'm telling you. The original statistics I gave you were from Guttmacher. And, I know from personal experience when my daughter's father wanted me to abort her. I wish I could've gone to the police and told them his intentions for our daughter back then and had something happen more than just being told "it's your choice". Her life deserved legal protection, not a thumbs up or thumbs down from me.
xalisae 1 week ago
@xalisae ""i know from personal experience'
Well, we dont go by your "personal experience' - we're going by whats best public policy for 150 million U.S. women.
Some women werent coerced at all, and very much want an abortion. They just cancelled you out - NOW what?
Hexl702 1 week ago
@xalisae ""64% of abortions.. coerced""
LOL-- well, OF COURSE, if you clucks are gonna make women susceptible to a criminal charge, theyre gonna try to come off less like a criminal!
Bin Laden got the DP last year -- Wouldnt have done him any good to exclaim "I didnt fly any of the planes!"" I can name you a famous case, Ann Rule book about the
Jerry Harris murder, where the actual killer got 3 years and probation, and the
mastermind is on Death Row awaiting execution.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@xalisae
When you clucks say stuff like '"I dont REALLY think a woman would actually
get serious prison time" - i dont know if youre
trying to reassure prochoicers or yourselves.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@xalisae ""have you seen the latest polls"
Did you happen to catch the vote in MIssissippi last Nov , where they voted that the
fetus is NOT a person ?
Hell, you can trust MS's pro-lite credentials, cant you- theyre a rightwad churchgoing red sate. If personhood can't passTHERE, it cant pass anywhere.
That's a poll, TOO -- hell, that's the "vote of the people" the pro-lickers always SAID
they wanted.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 Funny, because I DID see what happened in Mississippi! A campaign of LIES from the other side that said things like, "This legislation will make women die from ectopic pregnancies", or "this legislation will criminalize birth control!" or, "this legislation will make IVF illegal!".
I wouldn't know about "churchgoing", I'm not religious. Once we fight the lies of poor-choicers, everyone will be more willing to respect all human lives, no matter how young.
xalisae 1 week ago
@xalisae ""LIES from the other side ""
Well, its not our fault you guys suck at your message.
Arent they now more carefully wording it for the next time - LOL werent you guys supposed to carefully word the law in the first place, hell youve had FORTY YEARS
to get it right!
Hexl702 1 week ago
@xalisae
Depends on how you do it. People dont want to lock women up in prison for this. Some things we're just dont want to force at thepoint of a gun, not even noble things, not even childbirth.
Hexl702 1 week ago
@Hexl702 killing one's child-regardless of age or stage of development-is not just "a personal wrong to be forgiven", otherwise Child Protective Services would not exist.
xalisae 1 week ago
@triacylglyceride """"english is not good..at referring to people""""
Yep, i wish we had a shorthand word for "he-she-it "
- Every time I refer to a generic
fetus as "it," the pro-lifics get all bent out of shape and excitable "Youre calling a baby
an "it" !"
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
The proloafers are not above being dishonest themselves. Go take a look at that Jill Stanek video - where they used an obviously 3 week old baby to stand in for a 23 -26 week old fetus.
Why would they do that -- a 23-weeker didnt look cute enough or baby-ish enough
to make their point for them?
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
@blackbetts ""24 weeks gestation, who DO live outside womb, okay to kill em?"
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt. If its an abortion to save the woman's life, the pro-lickers say they support those.
If its a criminal case where a doctor kills a viable newborn outside the womb, he gets charged with murder. This happened just last year. We're already looking out for em.
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
Are they really bitching and hollering that theyve been silenced or something?
For every prochoicer supposedly calling it "only a clump of cells" , theres a pro-loafer
saying NO IT ISNT its a baby. That message has been out there for all 39 years of Roe.
Its not our fault they suck at their message.
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
@seanipie ""If i kill a pregnant woman ""
We've decided, that aint the same thing. You wouldnt have the reason she does.
She wants to be un-PREGNANT. She's trying to get out of the 9 long months. You arent pregnant. That's different.
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
@blackbetts
LOL silly - It REALLY is a fetus. Nobody's lying about that.
It's not "evil incarnate"" to use the scientific term to describe it. We have a word for it specifically because its a particular thing.
Yep, a woman hugs her stomach, names it beforehand and buys cute clothes and diapers beforehand. But she knows its UNBORN, eh? Women know that much, dont they ? They know theyre hugging their stomach, not an actual baby.
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
Honestly, it's the mother's choice. This us just as manipulative as the side you're fighting. Why force a child into a situation where they could be hated and resented for even existing, or maybe, a situation where they cant even be cared for properly, with a mother so young she's just a child herself, or one so poor they don't even have clean diapers to wear, or so sick the birth itself could kill her! Don't force a child to live an unwanted life!
XSuicuneX 2 weeks ago
@blackbetts
No, she is accurately using her terms of endearment for the baby she intends to have. That doesn't disprove an opinion that her fetus is not her baby, but will become her baby. I'm not arguing for abortion rights with that statement, just repeating my earlier argument against this video: English is not good at referring to non-people that become people, and we should not use semantics to determine rights.
(Similarly, "mother" has both bio & culture definitions, gravida ≠ mother.)
triacylglyceride 2 weeks ago
@triacylglyceride ""terms of endearment for the baby she intends to have""
Yep -- if youre emotionally involved, its a baby.
What the pro-lickers would have us believe - is that they are emotionally involved in a woman's pregnancy, total
strangers, 4 million times a year, as if it was someone in their family. I find that hard to believe.
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Whats wrong with the word "fetus" - its the objective, non-biased SCIENTIFIC term.
Are the pro-loofas really saying, the womb thingy is NEVER a fetus, you cant use
the word even ONCE, like it's way out of line?
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
The use of the word "baby" to refer to an embryo or fetus is a sign of looking forward to that embryo or fetus's development and birth. It is imprecise but convenient in pre-natal care. This video conflates our terms of hope and endearment for the future with medical terms of precision for the present in an attempt to win this argument through semantics. The English language has not developed good words to refer to non-people that become people, and this is not remarkable.
triacylglyceride 2 weeks ago
@triacylglyceride
So, when a mother is singing to her "fetus" in the womb, the same fetus whose feet she is able to feel, is she conflating her terms of hope and endearment when she sings "Hush little baby"? And likewise, is she out of line buying sleepers, diapers, a crib, etc for the "non person" inside her? Come on - we're smarter than that, are we not?
blackbetts 2 weeks ago
Abortion is murder, plain and simple. If I kill a pregnant woman its double homicide, but if that woman kills her unborn baby its freedom of choice. What about mothers who do drugs? There are penalties for that, UNLESS you take an FDA approved drug that outright kills the baby, once again its than considered freedom of choice. Where do the double standards stop?
seanipie 3 weeks ago 6
@seanipie It's not a double-standard, it's common sense. It's part of the woman's body and therefore her jurisdiction. If she shares her personhood w/ it, b/c the fetus has no personhood of it's own ON it's own, then it's a baby. If not, then it's not. It's quite simple.
It's not a baby until born.
ryddelwearsahat 2 weeks ago
What cracks me up about the pro-loafers -- Pin em down and most will say
""Er um .. hem haw.. Well as much as I hate abortion, i dont want to make it a criminal charge and women dont need to be arrested & put in jail (IE Sarah Palin)
Hell- if you would alllow it to be killed without any legal sanction -- being called a ""fetus""
is the least of its problems!
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
LOL - Okay, we'll put it in their terms. It's a baby.
Sarah Palin is on record, saying people shouldnt go to jail for killing BABIES. Geez, why would she say something like that?
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
Its official -- the fetus is NOT a person , Mississippi said so!
Hell, you can trust THEM cant you, their pro-lite credentials are rock solid, its a bible believin'
right-wingin' , flag wavin' g-droppin' red state that votes for the pro-lip party overwhelmingly.
That was great, the pro-lighters got the "vote of the people' they always said they wanted!
Hexl702 2 weeks ago
Can a person be pro life, and pro choice??? God is! Check out my uploads. This commercial is great. I would love to see it on tv everywhere. I'd have to be a tv watcher to see it though. lol
setatliberty 1 month ago
Wow. That's demeaning to a human life to call it a "blob". Makes it sound unimportant and cheap. I guess some people think life is cheap. But then again, they only think that way because they were not aborted.
assaultmek 1 month ago
@TalesOfGod
Except only idiots like you see it as murder and a person. Its a group of cells forming together that doesnt even have a functioning brain or organs.
Seriously opinions like yours are just simply stupid.
yellowlikesunshine1 1 month ago
@yellowlikesunshine1 So you actually do care about the personhood of prenatal entities. So we can agree that once it develops some brain and vital organ function, it is no longer ethical to abort. Great, this happens around 5 weeks before most women realize they are pregnant.
LoveThyNeighbor7 4 weeks ago
@yellowlikesunshine1
Hush goup of cells forming together that doesnt (sic) even have a functioning brain or organs,
Don't say a word...
blackbetts 3 weeks ago
@yellowlikesunshine1
Hush group of cells forming together that doesn't even have a functioning brain or organs, don't say a word.
Honestly, do you really believe that? If my not believing that load of cronk makes me an idiot, then I'm proud to be one!
Go groups of cells!
blackbetts 2 weeks ago
people should have the right to abortion. they dont have to have one, but if need be, they can have one
Whitepikman 2 months ago
@Whitepikman
Evidently, they do have the legal "right". But because something is legal, is it necessarily "right"?
And what is "abortion"? When you say, "People should have the right to abortion", what are you talking about? I can respect a person who calls it like it is - without speaking in euphemisms.
blackbetts 2 weeks ago
@blackbetts i just mean they should have the option available to them. it would be a not so great situation if a baby posed a threat to a mother and she would not be able to have an abortion to protect her from that threat.
Whitepikman 5 hours ago
I would abort in a heart beat if I found out my birth control and the condoms failed. Me and my husband never want children and the adoption system in this country is messed up of course I would abort. And guess what? My abortion is none of your mother fucking business and doesn't affect you in any way shape or form so shut the hell up and try living your life not controlling others especially when they don't effect you actually benefit you since we have over population.
- some with intelligen
yellowlikesunshine1 2 months ago 3
@yellowlikesunshine1
Pax et amor!
blackbetts 3 weeks ago
The only ones trying to hide things are the creators of this commercial who want the truth hidden. It's not a baby.
dubhtail 3 months ago
@dubhtail
The creators of this commerical didn't call it a baby. They called it a "blob of tissue" and "lump of cells". Let's be clear.
blackbetts 3 weeks ago
lol silly pro choicers a "blob of cells"....with a heartbeat at 4 weeks and 100% HUMAN DNA
wolfy4815226 3 months ago
@wolfy4815226 it's still not a living human because if you take it off from the mother's body it would die. Something that is not sustainable by itself it's not really a living being.
P-E-R-I-O-D!
userunknozn 1 month ago
@userunknozn So if I need CPR, an AED, or life support...I'm not a living being either, and nothing should be done to try to preserve my "non-life"? Can you offer a definition of personhood and life which excludes say, coma patients or severe mental handicaps? Or are you saying these should also be "allowed to die"?
LoveThyNeighbor7 4 weeks ago
@LoveThyNeighbor7 how long would you keep someone in coma? For ages? Until your little ego is satisfied knowing the body is right there just for you and not a rotting corpse? How long people like you are going to spread these close-minded speeches?
"Free will" do you know? Have you ever heard that word in your existence? Does it make sense to you? If we were given free will it is to be used! Don't be a fanatic please.
userunknozn 4 weeks ago
@userunknozn "Something that is not sustainable by itself it's not really a living being." I'm referring to your definition for denying personhood. Coma patients can't live without nutrients. Some handicaps require constant O2 supply. Are these entities also not "living beings"? I am saying that the logic of your definition is flawed. Has nothing to do with my ego or free will and if you want to be open-minded, deal with my actual response instead of ad hom-ing.
LoveThyNeighbor7 3 weeks ago
@LoveThyNeighbor7 damn I never planned to answer your comment cuz tbh I got better things to do but youtube updates me with new comments. Anyway talking abt coma I think you cannot keep someone plugged for ages. I dont want to get into personal data but my grandpa had a stroke this summer and was really bad. I prayed for his full recovery or his death but didn't want him to be disabled or suffering. If I was selfish I'd have wanted him alive no matter what. Thats the difference
userunknozn 2 weeks ago
@userunknozn
Are you able to define your terms? Free will for whom? The person in the coma? The baby in the womb? The father of the babies in the wombs? The mother's, sometimes forced to abort against her will? Perhaps if you refrain from the inflammatory language and stick to first principles, we would get somewhere.
blackbetts 2 weeks ago
@blackbetts Free will for the only person able to take a decision. You wouldn't let a vegetable or a fruit take the decision for you right? Between the mother and the child the only one able to take the decision is the mum. Especially when the baby is using her body. Im not saying that the baby should be aborted at 8months but abortion at 3 weeks is perfectly correct. Everybody makes mistakes. If you never made a single one raise your hand.
userunknozn 2 weeks ago
@userunknozn Who's talking about mistakes? If it's okay to "abort" (whatever that means - we still haven't defined the terms) up until some elusive point - exactly when the "lump of cells" (or whatever - still haven't narrowed down on that one either) is "independent" (whatever that means), then why is there a "mistake" involved. Either it's right - and there's no mistake involved, or it's not right. Who cares about "opinions"?
blackbetts 2 weeks ago
@blackbetts I don't have any words since you like putting terms to everything. To me it's a kind of process my body started without my approval and that I want to end. I am a responsible person and whenever I have sex I use the contraceptive pill and/or condoms. Which means I should not face an unwanted pregnancy but if by any unfortunate chance I happened to be pregnant, I'd be glad the abortion option could be offered to me. Of course I wouldnt wait for ages!
userunknozn 2 weeks ago