Why is it "silly" to be married in the old norse fashion? Most people in Scandinavia are atheists, of course also the people who marry in the norse style, it's just a way of making your wedding extra funny, extra memorable I think..and surely that can't be "silly"? : )
@BaronGrackle To say that you must put faith into your belief system that has no evidence for it. Therefore if you say that by rejecting all other Religions while keeping yours solely on faith is a non-contradictory belief, then you are sorely mistaken.
@Ye4hBuddy Well, you know, we'd say there is evidence in terms of miracles through manifestations, fulfillment of laws written on our hearts, etc., but I'm sure that wouldn't convince you. I'm just bringing it up so you realize our faith isn't something selected at random.
@BaronGrackle You're right in assuming that the subjective evidence that you talked about wouldn't convince me. This is because, even if there was a miracle that was completely, utterly proven to be done by a God or gods, it still doesn't prove any one religion. I also know that your faith isn't selected at random, it is selected by the geological location that you were born in.
I'm curious about this video. Would you define atheism as A) not believing that a God exists (or gods, or minor deities, or the soul, what have you.) or B) believing that a God does not exist. The difference is more than semantic, as in science, a lack of evidence, say insufficient statistical power, to prove a hypothesis is not sufficient proof of the alternative hypothesis. I believe many theists default with definition B in which case one is beholden to prove God does not exist.
However, through trial and error insufficient evidence to support a claim or hypothesis is enough to validate the opposite if proposing to the following the opposite hypothesis given the same examination validates it.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
It in fact DOES take faith to not believe in any religion along with believing in one. Scientology isn't a religion, it's bull crap based on a science fiction book, but to believe in something over something else takes faith that the thing you're not believing in is false and that the thing you actually are believing in is true. Back to the drawing board for you guys, I guess.
LOL, yeah, I know ;o) The usual defense applies, of course: Second language. I could've just pronounced it in Danish, of course, but I don't think that would've been any better. :)
Nobody ever had a good answer, so they usually just dismiss it. I hammer it home until it's too painfully obvious to avoid. It's basically the same as my retort to the Prime Mover argument that saying that there is some first cause has absolutely nothing to do with the God of the Bible, at least any more than it has to do with Allah, or Saturnus, or Thoth.
Sure, they *can*. I'm 1) hoping they won't, and 2) of the opinion that if they do, they're not the sharpest tools in the shed... If they dismiss all possible gods on faith alone, *except* their own, then they truly are blind.
when ever i watch you videos, i can't help my mind to stray off it a image of the cat you have for you icon, as sitting in a cosy arm chair with a fire in the background with a pair of glasses and mug of coco. i dont know why throught, love you videos man
(no worries me too:P i have 2, i lost one last year in october, alsorts wrong with him and he got hit by a car:( my other two have been noticibly different but are back to normal:P)
You've really got the deconverting ppl thing down! I'm impressed, how many are you up to now? *wink* How long's it been since I said thank you? Too long I'm sure, THANK YOU!
As a dane who know a few practitioners of the belive in the Asir, or the "old ways" forn sidr. I can tell you, youre not wrong about at least some of them beeing live roleplayers or atleast dress up in funny clothes now and then. Great Video.
No. A balanced relationship requires many things not just honesty. In fact friendship it seems requires more honesty and you don't play good and evil with your friends!! Christianity is certainly the lie of all lies. It is the summation and corruption of the pagan mystery cults and it operates outside of truth.
you can also get married at a nors religion thing in Iceland to, but we just have it for fun 'cause no one here is religious and its more fun than a city wedding.
When someone believes that if they blow themselves up along with a bunch of other people, and that they will get rewarded in heaven with things that where their earthly desires, and they do it; that is selfishness. Selfishness is not of God. Everyone knows that it is better to be considerate.
A balanced relationship requires honesty, and everyone knows it. So for that reason, we all have an inborn sense of good and evil. Moral truth is absolute. All truth is absolute. Any religion that embraces anything outside of truth is false.
No. A balanced relationship requires many things not just honesty. In fact friendship it seems requires more honesty and you don't play good and evil with your friends!! Christianity is certainly the lie of all lies. It is the summation and corruption of the pagan mystery cults and it operates outside of truth.
I did think about it. Every Person no matter where or when they existed has had the ability to speak the truth or a lie. And every person wants the truth told to them.
Every August I meet with some people who worship Zeus; some worship Woden; many worship Thor; others worship Pan. The old gods are not all dead. The Goddess is alive and magic is afoot!
Actually Cap according to my academic writing class most academic papers draw heavily on the works of others. In fact you'll be hard pressed to find any truly original thoughts out there as everyone is drawing off everyone else.
I never understood why monotheoism is better than polytheoism. Christians and Muslims only answer is that it is written in the Bible or Quran.... but that is not a good reason.
"I never understood why monotheoism is better than polytheoism."
Are there are monotheisms in the world? If so I am unaware of their existences. One only finds polytheisms and henotheisms: one will be extremely hard pressed to find a monotheism.
That's funny, I remember turning on the radio at work about six months back and it was on a religious channel of some sort... and it just hit me how similar the things they were saying/describing sounded like a GM in some D&D type game.
The one God I can't dismiss is the one God that really exists. For me to deny him would be to deny the truth. And unlike you, I don't want to believe a lie. The fool hath said in his heart 'there is no God.' You are in darkness. And sinful by nature, as am I. Because of this man is blind, and the blind can only see the darkness. I pray God will let you see. A blind man can not say 'the light does not exist'.
"The one god I can't dismiss is the one god that really exists."
Which one god would that be? Thor? Brahma? Apollo? Zeus? Quetzalcoatl? Satan? Proteus? Poseidon? Mithras? Hypnos? Hephaestus? Faunus? Frey? Silvanus? Thebe? Uranus? Osiris? Orcus? Morpheus? Loki? You'll have to be more specific.
The point of the video is: do you require faith to not believe in all of the gods do you not believe in, as much as you require faith to believe in the gods you do believe in?
I might be wrong in this, but I suspect Dawkins himself was quoting somebody else.
Anyway Cptn, check out my "Faith is just a Science" vid. It's one of my worst videos (so I'm not attaching it as a response), but I think you'll get what I'm saying. You gave me yet another all new idea though.
The only proof muslims or christians have that their religion is the only correct one is that their holy book says so. If you ask a muslim why islam is the only correct religion, then the muslim replies: because the Quran says so.
I agree with your first two paragraphs, no need to go into detail there.
Your third paragraph however, is bullshit. Science has never made an assumption (other than the foundational naturalistic assumption, in that science only deals with the measurable), it has however proposed theories. Those theories stay as scientific mainstream until proven wrong.
Eg Newton's Laws, shown to be inaccurate by Einstein.
But please, give an example of when science has ever had to backtrack on an assumption.
every time some1 says he knows for sure what matter is made of, some1 creates a better microscope and that idea is blown away.
the thing is once something is proven wrong, we start to call it a theory again and ignore the embarassing fact that we did at one point accept the idea as truth.
the ptolemeic view of the universe was originaly a scientific observation, not a dogmatic law.
likewise the bible makes no allagations of the world being flat.
Did atoms suddenly disappear when Bohr figured out that they were made up of electrons, neutrons, and protons? Did protons suddenly disappear when it was discovered that it consisted of 3 quarks?
No. We discover more about what matter is at a fundamental level, that doesn't invalidate the previous discoveries. Sheesh, read a little science already.
Ptolemy lived around 100 CE, ca. one and a half millenium before the development of the scientific method. Try again.
And the bible says the earth is circular, stands unmoving on pillars, and has 4 corners. All of which is indicative of a flat earth model, although I fail to see what this has to do with this discussion.
u can confuse science with atheism all u want, but the fact of the matter is that the man in the street does not know, yet without any reservation choses what he thinks is true,
and arbitrarily accepts as fact what he does not know.
this is as much true for atheists as it is for religious people.
your beliefs are not based on your knowledge of facts, but mostly they are based on who you chose to believe.
I don't confuse the two at all, I am quite aware of the distinction (for evidence, I submit the fact that one of my favourite evolutionary scientists, Dr. Kenneth Miller, is a catholic).
I agree that most people base their beliefs on hearsay, that in fact is my main objection to people's beliefs. And I know this goes for many atheists as well as many religious folk.
There are actually some people in Greece who are trying to bring back the old Greek religion. I for one think they don't really believe in them but like it as a nationalism type of deal. I think it would be very nice having a polytheist religion spreading around the world. They at lest have some fun orgies with them.
You are calling Asatru (the believe in the Norse gods) silly?
You sure as hell have never been in Denmark, Sweden, Norway or Iceland (where it is also practiced and recognized). Some people actually do believe in the Norse gods, I am one of them. If my fiancee was not atheist we would get married pagan style. and I have NEVER played role play games. Some people takes this very seriously, you don't have to - but I would recommend that you did some research before making such stupid statements.
I'm pretty sure that CapnOrdinary is danish. But I would argue that asatru is just as silly as christianity or islam. I mean honestly can you not see anything that people might see as silly/wacky/ridiculous about asatru/ásatrú
CapnOrdinaty takes Christianity seriously when arguing against them, but Asatru are apparently not worth that honor - we are just ridiculous roleplay gamers. Why can the Christians be debated on rational terms while Asatru can not? Because they are more people than we are? Because you consider their God is more plausible than our gods?
At least take all religions seriously or none, right?
Oh, don't worry. He doesn't really take Christians seriously. He just knows that they are more likely to earnestly believe the bullshit that comes out of their delusions than you guys are.
In fact, he made the point that it is absolutely fucking awesome that they ARE treated on equal terms in that country if you didn't notice.
I did notice and I think the whole clip is very well made. The only thing that I disliked was to be called a roleplayer. Nothing wrong with doing roleplay but you know they are usually not the type you want to be associated with, at least not if you actually never played it :)
I don't think that Christians are more likely to believe in their God. I know of a lot of people who claim to be Christain but not REALLY believing in a God.
(Stupid 500 word limit) I could write a book on the subject but let me just say that I recognize that Christianity and Paganism are two very different things.
Some Asatru honestly believe in the psychical existence of gods, others (like me) believe in the philosophy and the values and that faith can move mountains even if it all is just in your head - just like most of the old Vikings did. The beauty of Asatru is that it is quite open for interpretation.
You can think whatever you want about Asatru, I really don't care. But I care that you don't know what you are talking about.
Bing Danish you should have known just a little about the Asatru community (though there really is not ONE community) and know that calling us roleplay gamers is just an attempt to make us look bad/nerdy - at least before making completely wrong statements on the subject.
Jeg gør jo heller ikke grin ned din tro på det flyvende pastamonster, vel? ;)
You'll notice I didn't say you were LARP'ers, I said that was my theory. In this case of course using theory in the non-scientific sense of "just a guess". So I'm sorry if you find that guess offensive, but that is my impression of your religion. Maybe you need a better PR department ;o)
Og hvorfor er det i øvrigt at du ikke gør grin med det Flyvende Spaghettimonster? Hvorfor skal religioner være hævet over at blive gjort grin med?
Since your clip is based on the argument that all religion should be taken equally serious I find it ironic that you take Christianity more seriously than Asatru. I think you believe Asatru to be roleplayers because roleplayers use Paganism in their games but that's not really our fault, right? Anyway, I can inform you that your theory on Asatru is very flawed.
Naturligvis skal man gøre grin med religion - helt så meget man orker. Det med spaghettimonstret var et forsøg på at være morsom.
I know, I know, it's a weakness of my christian upbringing that I am trying to overcome. But I do find christianity very silly indeed by now, I'll say in my defense.
(And no, the reason I hypothesised that asatru weddings were used by LARP'ers is because I could very well imagine several of my LARP'er friends who would think that was the height of cool.)
"...I've been taught not to assume that even the simplest of arguments will be considered obvious..." Exactly! I've learned to never assume a theist has mastered 6th grade science, or that they will be insulted when an argument is dumbed FAR down for their benefit.
"I contend that we are both Atheists. I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
I personally like it a bit better than the Dawkins way of stating it, but it's still just as true.
Does it take faith not to believe in an out of fashion god? You are very clever. It is an original twist on an original thought and you should be very pleased with yourself.
Everything has been thought of, the trick is to think of it again. - Goethe
I've been using that argument for decades, sometimes even using Zeus as the "start god," sometimes Thor or Shiva, although under influence of a friend I reserve Ramtha as a special treat for JWs.
While CO derived that argument from the concise Dawkins statement, Dawkins derived the statement - from the argument.
when I was a kid, I was into greek mythology. at a certain point I stated to my family, catholic, that I had decided to worship the greek gods. my mom almost had a heart attack but my brothers and the other kids laughed at me (the other kids were also christians). funny part is almost everyone that laughed ended up becoming atheists or agnostics, except for my mom. hehehe
this video brought to my attention how things are so familiar on this never-ending "war" about belief systems and facts.
I've been using a similar argument for years. In fact, it was just the same thought process that was one of the keys for me to break the spell!
Another way I've heard it put by the physicist Steve Weinberg, "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"
I don't think theist want to argue fairly with athiest. I just think theist want to be able to manipulate you and brainwash you and if they don't succeed, they'll hate you for it and say your weak, stupid, pathetic or use any other form of imposing negative feeling in hopes that the theist will successfully brainwash and manipulate the atheist.
I think you right. for example what constitutes my atheism is not that difficult to explain. It gets difficult when theist lie " I do not understand , how , why , what " . Of course they do, they just don't want to. But explaining my personal point of view get really impossible when said theist stop inquiring about my personal position and start making non-nonsensical points about atheism and doing the roll reversal trick like the one this video is an answer to.And us fools really ponder them.
Stop asking theists to think about stuff. That be silly talk. Next you will be asking them to use that logicy and sciency stuff. Thems the devils tools.
The Norse religion and weddings are also practiced in Iceland, though I personally think that it is not so much of a religious thing, but rather a social thing. Which in essence can be said for any religion, I guess.
I was under the impression that theists reject other gods on the basis of their faith in their god, not on the basis of the absurdity of those gods. I think that's what causes them to think atheism requires faith, because that's the method they use to disbelieve all the other gods. Their claims to other religions falseness doesn't seem to be based on problems with those religions, but because their faith in their religion automatically denies the others.
"Their claims to other religions falseness doesn't seem to be based on problems with those religions, but because their faith in their religion automatically denies the others."
You're right about this of course, but admitting it means that their faith is not based on rationally selecting the true religion.
Most theists, while claiming that faith with knowledge isn't faith, don't like to think their faith is arbitrary. The idea that the FSM is just as likely as their god is disturbing.
Ah, yes, but dismissing all the other religions on the grounds that you have found the one true religion is not rational, so nobody will want to admit that (I hope). Admittedly, that particular thought did not occur to me when I was making this video, I thank you for pointing it out to me.
I was hyped about the norse weddings, then you mentioned the LARP'ers, now I'm sad. Oh well, I still say Thor would murder Jesus in an arm wrestling match.
Except for the minor addition of some actual real-world data, some maths, and some physics, of course.
Science has plenty of unanswered questions, that it does not try to answer, until there is some measure of available data. Unlike religion, which can answer any question with the versatile non-explanation "God-did-it".
The origin of the universe, the origin of life, etc, none of those questions are "fundamentally unknowable".
Oh dear, here we go with the misconceptions again.... Sorry if I sound impatient, but I've explained this what seems like a million times already:
The big bang is NOT "an explosion out of nothing". It is an expansion of already existing energy from a superdense singularity into an actual space-time continuum. And it is not faith, it's pure math and physics. AND: A scientific theory is not "based on speculation", it's based on observable, testable evidence.
"Why do you think the universe had to come from somewhere?"
1/2
This is where most people misunderstand the workings of science. The same question might be applied to God: a christian would state that god created the universe, and an atheist might reply: whence god? The christian would answer: "Why do you think God had to come from somewhere?"
The point is, science doesn't actually tell us anything about the "origin" of the universe, if it even has any.
Science *does* tell us a whole lot about the universe *since* the beginning of the big bang. However, on t=0 (or sqrt(t)<0, if you swing that way) you're free to speculate. As long as your speculations concur with observable reality, just go right ahead.
This is true, but in the same sense that just saying there's gravity doesn't make it so. If you accept basic physics, the big bang follows logically when you combine it with observations of the universe.
The big bang isn't the origin of existence, it's the origin of our space-time.
The main problem with creator Gods is that they're not an explanation. They're simply giving a name to the problem and don't contribute to understanding.
That's not Faith at all. NOT having all the answers is NOTI suppose you think we think 'Something came from nothing. YOU'RE the only ones who believe that. That's oart of YOUR mythology.
"all u have is a current trend and a theory that may or may not explain its origin."
What the hell does that mean? Why do I always run in to people that have a thing for jargon. Just fucking say what you want to say! What "current trend"? What the fuck does that mean!? God damn I'm so tired of uneducated people.
but anyways what it means is that the only thing we have to point at a big bang is that we know that the stars are currently drifting apart and the universe seems to be expanding.
and that we base only on observation.
we cant fly around in a space ship and take samples of everything.
some theories are impossible to test, but without anything to contradict them either,
No sir, we have much more evidence to back it up. I don't even know why we're talking about this. You should've done more research before commenting. Just to name a few:
"second, you do not have proof of the big bang....."
You don't have proof you exist. No scientist has ever claimed they have proof of the Big Bang, any more than they claim they have proof of sunlight and rain. They have *EVIDENCE* for all of these: none claim they have proof.
Why is it "silly" to be married in the old norse fashion? Most people in Scandinavia are atheists, of course also the people who marry in the norse style, it's just a way of making your wedding extra funny, extra memorable I think..and surely that can't be "silly"? : )
winterstellar 2 years ago
Now, surely you realized when you uploaded this, that we consider the nonbelief in Zeus as part of our belief system if we think about.
It just doesn't come up that often.
BaronGrackle 2 years ago
@BaronGrackle To say that you must put faith into your belief system that has no evidence for it. Therefore if you say that by rejecting all other Religions while keeping yours solely on faith is a non-contradictory belief, then you are sorely mistaken.
Ye4hBuddy 1 year ago
@Ye4hBuddy Well, you know, we'd say there is evidence in terms of miracles through manifestations, fulfillment of laws written on our hearts, etc., but I'm sure that wouldn't convince you. I'm just bringing it up so you realize our faith isn't something selected at random.
BaronGrackle 1 year ago
@BaronGrackle You're right in assuming that the subjective evidence that you talked about wouldn't convince me. This is because, even if there was a miracle that was completely, utterly proven to be done by a God or gods, it still doesn't prove any one religion. I also know that your faith isn't selected at random, it is selected by the geological location that you were born in.
Ye4hBuddy 1 year ago
@Ye4hBuddy Well you know, unless I'm a convert, which I just so happen to be. ;)
BaronGrackle 1 year ago
I'm curious about this video. Would you define atheism as A) not believing that a God exists (or gods, or minor deities, or the soul, what have you.) or B) believing that a God does not exist. The difference is more than semantic, as in science, a lack of evidence, say insufficient statistical power, to prove a hypothesis is not sufficient proof of the alternative hypothesis. I believe many theists default with definition B in which case one is beholden to prove God does not exist.
ktt808 2 years ago
However, through trial and error insufficient evidence to support a claim or hypothesis is enough to validate the opposite if proposing to the following the opposite hypothesis given the same examination validates it.
Tom101229 2 years ago
Atheism is not a religion
But one can be a deist or pantheist who accepts atheism completely, the more the better.
If God is everything, infinity and perfect, then there could be no guiding hand. it would be too crude a touch for a perfect being.
least action, the universe as it is, is cool, the perfection, we may never understand, but why should we?
bees in the garden, living by honesty and reason. is enough.
Religion trades on God being divided;it is obscenity.
Hold up no idols.
It is all God.
marsCubed 2 years ago
Zeus is RIPPED!!!
bassist3453 2 years ago
@bassist3453 so is Jesus.
PhatLarkin 2 years ago
Very nice my man
Helix104 2 years ago
I dig this video
willsyx 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It in fact DOES take faith to not believe in any religion along with believing in one. Scientology isn't a religion, it's bull crap based on a science fiction book, but to believe in something over something else takes faith that the thing you're not believing in is false and that the thing you actually are believing in is true. Back to the drawing board for you guys, I guess.
iwannnawatch 3 years ago
Still not getting the point, I see.
Oh well, you can lead a horse to water......
CapnOrdinary 2 years ago
@iwannnawatch ya that made no sence.
but um Im guessing thats why it was removed huh
DetrivoreDesires 1 year ago
Dude that's a great way of putting it, good vid. =)
Also I love how many lolcats you managed to stuff into it. =P
PsychoKat90 3 years ago
Don't be hatin' on the LARP, man. XD Great video as always.
DeadbeatShadows 3 years ago
One of my highly religious friends regards Dawkins as an idiot, I had trouble not laughing at that statement.
JamesJimRaynor 3 years ago
Your pronunciation of "Chews"..errr I mean "Zeus" is funny.
f1rz3nz3r0 3 years ago
LOL, yeah, I know ;o) The usual defense applies, of course: Second language. I could've just pronounced it in Danish, of course, but I don't think that would've been any better. :)
CapnOrdinary 3 years ago
Oh yes, your English is sooooo terrible. ;)
f1rz3nz3r0 3 years ago
I've been saying that for years!!!
Nobody ever had a good answer, so they usually just dismiss it. I hammer it home until it's too painfully obvious to avoid. It's basically the same as my retort to the Prime Mover argument that saying that there is some first cause has absolutely nothing to do with the God of the Bible, at least any more than it has to do with Allah, or Saturnus, or Thoth.
GBart 3 years ago
I've used this counter argument before, but the person replied with ' I do believe in those, but I believe that they are the works of satan.'
danohrly 3 years ago
Not sure your restatement of argument will work very well. After all, a theist can easily say "Yes, I *do* have faith in the non-existence of Zeus".
websnarf 3 years ago
Sure, they *can*. I'm 1) hoping they won't, and 2) of the opinion that if they do, they're not the sharpest tools in the shed... If they dismiss all possible gods on faith alone, *except* their own, then they truly are blind.
CapnOrdinary 3 years ago
when ever i watch you videos, i can't help my mind to stray off it a image of the cat you have for you icon, as sitting in a cosy arm chair with a fire in the background with a pair of glasses and mug of coco. i dont know why throught, love you videos man
canti1988 3 years ago
you really like cats? dont you?:P
(no worries me too:P i have 2, i lost one last year in october, alsorts wrong with him and he got hit by a car:( my other two have been noticibly different but are back to normal:P)
P.S. good video
Erech01 4 years ago
You've really got the deconverting ppl thing down! I'm impressed, how many are you up to now? *wink* How long's it been since I said thank you? Too long I'm sure, THANK YOU!
hunniebee173 4 years ago
As a dane who know a few practitioners of the belive in the Asir, or the "old ways" forn sidr. I can tell you, youre not wrong about at least some of them beeing live roleplayers or atleast dress up in funny clothes now and then. Great Video.
faidris13 4 years ago
Tak ;o) jeg er glad for det ikke bare er mig der har den opfattelse.
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
No. A balanced relationship requires many things not just honesty. In fact friendship it seems requires more honesty and you don't play good and evil with your friends!! Christianity is certainly the lie of all lies. It is the summation and corruption of the pagan mystery cults and it operates outside of truth.
martynblackburn1977 4 years ago
you can also get married at a nors religion thing in Iceland to, but we just have it for fun 'cause no one here is religious and its more fun than a city wedding.
kveldulfrrr 4 years ago
I think the best answer to someone saying "Atheism is a religion" is "And bald is a hair color".
FHB71 4 years ago 4
Watch out now, Sam Harris said the same thing and got a lot of angry letters from pagans.
TheAtheistPaladin 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
The Greek gods and Norse gods, where as sinful as any man. But my God is holy, and must judge evil.
lotusguild 4 years ago
Your god is fake, and you are evil :)
cypherphage 4 years ago 6
When someone believes that if they blow themselves up along with a bunch of other people, and that they will get rewarded in heaven with things that where their earthly desires, and they do it; that is selfishness. Selfishness is not of God. Everyone knows that it is better to be considerate.
lotusguild 4 years ago
A balanced relationship requires honesty, and everyone knows it. So for that reason, we all have an inborn sense of good and evil. Moral truth is absolute. All truth is absolute. Any religion that embraces anything outside of truth is false.
lotusguild 4 years ago
No. A balanced relationship requires many things not just honesty. In fact friendship it seems requires more honesty and you don't play good and evil with your friends!! Christianity is certainly the lie of all lies. It is the summation and corruption of the pagan mystery cults and it operates outside of truth.
martynblackburn1977 4 years ago
I did think about it. Every Person no matter where or when they existed has had the ability to speak the truth or a lie. And every person wants the truth told to them.
lotusguild 4 years ago
lol, jezuzcat:P
Erech01 4 years ago
P.S. gotta love the richard dawkins gaming card:P immune to faith-based attacksxD
Erech01 4 years ago
thats really cool, i want a legally binding norse wedding!
sheepwshotguns 4 years ago
Every August I meet with some people who worship Zeus; some worship Woden; many worship Thor; others worship Pan. The old gods are not all dead. The Goddess is alive and magic is afoot!
Desertphile 4 years ago
¥T
MISTAFIEDONEEIGHTSEV 4 years ago
Actually Cap according to my academic writing class most academic papers draw heavily on the works of others. In fact you'll be hard pressed to find any truly original thoughts out there as everyone is drawing off everyone else.
OsirisLord 4 years ago
I never understood why monotheoism is better than polytheoism. Christians and Muslims only answer is that it is written in the Bible or Quran.... but that is not a good reason.
islamlover32423 4 years ago
"I never understood why monotheoism is better than polytheoism."
Less gods buttfucking you, I suppose ...
nervreg12 4 years ago
"I never understood why monotheoism is better than polytheoism."
Are there are monotheisms in the world? If so I am unaware of their existences. One only finds polytheisms and henotheisms: one will be extremely hard pressed to find a monotheism.
Desertphile 4 years ago
That's funny, I remember turning on the radio at work about six months back and it was on a religious channel of some sort... and it just hit me how similar the things they were saying/describing sounded like a GM in some D&D type game.
Di66en6ion 4 years ago
Don't worry. Most of us never come up with a truly original idea. But we can become collectors of them and pass them around.
riversonthemoon 4 years ago
Brilliant!
WhatIsNotSeen 4 years ago
I think TAA made this argument?
Loserido 4 years ago
The one God I can't dismiss is the one God that really exists. For me to deny him would be to deny the truth. And unlike you, I don't want to believe a lie. The fool hath said in his heart 'there is no God.' You are in darkness. And sinful by nature, as am I. Because of this man is blind, and the blind can only see the darkness. I pray God will let you see. A blind man can not say 'the light does not exist'.
lotusguild 4 years ago
So how do you know that your god exists and all the others don't?
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
"The one god I can't dismiss is the one god that really exists."
Which one god would that be? Thor? Brahma? Apollo? Zeus? Quetzalcoatl? Satan? Proteus? Poseidon? Mithras? Hypnos? Hephaestus? Faunus? Frey? Silvanus? Thebe? Uranus? Osiris? Orcus? Morpheus? Loki? You'll have to be more specific.
The point of the video is: do you require faith to not believe in all of the gods do you not believe in, as much as you require faith to believe in the gods you do believe in?
Desertphile 4 years ago
Thor! you moran!
HijodeNeton 4 years ago
Baaahaha...I laughed at ceiling cat!
ivanisavich 4 years ago
I might be wrong in this, but I suspect Dawkins himself was quoting somebody else.
Anyway Cptn, check out my "Faith is just a Science" vid. It's one of my worst videos (so I'm not attaching it as a response), but I think you'll get what I'm saying. You gave me yet another all new idea though.
schrodcat 4 years ago
Religion: a fan club gone wild.
The only proof muslims or christians have that their religion is the only correct one is that their holy book says so. If you ask a muslim why islam is the only correct religion, then the muslim replies: because the Quran says so.
islamlover32423 4 years ago 2
Dont get me wrong, im not saying religious understanding is in any way equal to scientific knowledge, im merely commenting on human behaviour.
lets face facts, most of us get our 'reality' from TV and we rarely verify any fact that sounds reasonable to us.
as for science, it has made many assumptions as fact troughout its history and has had to backtrack and start over on many occasions.
it too is not innocent of assumption.
Vertigo6911 4 years ago
I agree with your first two paragraphs, no need to go into detail there.
Your third paragraph however, is bullshit. Science has never made an assumption (other than the foundational naturalistic assumption, in that science only deals with the measurable), it has however proposed theories. Those theories stay as scientific mainstream until proven wrong.
Eg Newton's Laws, shown to be inaccurate by Einstein.
But please, give an example of when science has ever had to backtrack on an assumption.
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
yes it has.
most prominently matter.
every time some1 says he knows for sure what matter is made of, some1 creates a better microscope and that idea is blown away.
the thing is once something is proven wrong, we start to call it a theory again and ignore the embarassing fact that we did at one point accept the idea as truth.
the ptolemeic view of the universe was originaly a scientific observation, not a dogmatic law.
likewise the bible makes no allagations of the world being flat.
Vertigo6911 4 years ago
Did atoms suddenly disappear when Bohr figured out that they were made up of electrons, neutrons, and protons? Did protons suddenly disappear when it was discovered that it consisted of 3 quarks?
No. We discover more about what matter is at a fundamental level, that doesn't invalidate the previous discoveries. Sheesh, read a little science already.
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
Ptolemy lived around 100 CE, ca. one and a half millenium before the development of the scientific method. Try again.
And the bible says the earth is circular, stands unmoving on pillars, and has 4 corners. All of which is indicative of a flat earth model, although I fail to see what this has to do with this discussion.
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
u can confuse science with atheism all u want, but the fact of the matter is that the man in the street does not know, yet without any reservation choses what he thinks is true,
and arbitrarily accepts as fact what he does not know.
this is as much true for atheists as it is for religious people.
your beliefs are not based on your knowledge of facts, but mostly they are based on who you chose to believe.
Vertigo6911 4 years ago
I don't confuse the two at all, I am quite aware of the distinction (for evidence, I submit the fact that one of my favourite evolutionary scientists, Dr. Kenneth Miller, is a catholic).
I agree that most people base their beliefs on hearsay, that in fact is my main objection to people's beliefs. And I know this goes for many atheists as well as many religious folk.
(I'll reply to your second comment separately.)
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
There are actually some people in Greece who are trying to bring back the old Greek religion. I for one think they don't really believe in them but like it as a nationalism type of deal. I think it would be very nice having a polytheist religion spreading around the world. They at lest have some fun orgies with them.
EmperorEva0001 4 years ago
You are calling Asatru (the believe in the Norse gods) silly?
You sure as hell have never been in Denmark, Sweden, Norway or Iceland (where it is also practiced and recognized). Some people actually do believe in the Norse gods, I am one of them. If my fiancee was not atheist we would get married pagan style. and I have NEVER played role play games. Some people takes this very seriously, you don't have to - but I would recommend that you did some research before making such stupid statements.
Asaweb 4 years ago
I'm pretty sure that CapnOrdinary is danish. But I would argue that asatru is just as silly as christianity or islam. I mean honestly can you not see anything that people might see as silly/wacky/ridiculous about asatru/ásatrú
crazypants88 4 years ago
CapnOrdinaty takes Christianity seriously when arguing against them, but Asatru are apparently not worth that honor - we are just ridiculous roleplay gamers. Why can the Christians be debated on rational terms while Asatru can not? Because they are more people than we are? Because you consider their God is more plausible than our gods?
At least take all religions seriously or none, right?
Asaweb 4 years ago
Oh, don't worry. He doesn't really take Christians seriously. He just knows that they are more likely to earnestly believe the bullshit that comes out of their delusions than you guys are.
In fact, he made the point that it is absolutely fucking awesome that they ARE treated on equal terms in that country if you didn't notice.
dimensionwarped 4 years ago
I did notice and I think the whole clip is very well made. The only thing that I disliked was to be called a roleplayer. Nothing wrong with doing roleplay but you know they are usually not the type you want to be associated with, at least not if you actually never played it :)
I don't think that Christians are more likely to believe in their God. I know of a lot of people who claim to be Christain but not REALLY believing in a God.
Asaweb 4 years ago
(Stupid 500 word limit) I could write a book on the subject but let me just say that I recognize that Christianity and Paganism are two very different things.
Some Asatru honestly believe in the psychical existence of gods, others (like me) believe in the philosophy and the values and that faith can move mountains even if it all is just in your head - just like most of the old Vikings did. The beauty of Asatru is that it is quite open for interpretation.
Asaweb 4 years ago
Yes Asaweb, I hate to break it to you, but your religion is silly. Just like every other religion on this planet.
And for your information, I live in Denmark, I'm Danish, and I've lived here my whole life.
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
You can think whatever you want about Asatru, I really don't care. But I care that you don't know what you are talking about.
Bing Danish you should have known just a little about the Asatru community (though there really is not ONE community) and know that calling us roleplay gamers is just an attempt to make us look bad/nerdy - at least before making completely wrong statements on the subject.
Jeg gør jo heller ikke grin ned din tro på det flyvende pastamonster, vel? ;)
Asaweb 4 years ago
You'll notice I didn't say you were LARP'ers, I said that was my theory. In this case of course using theory in the non-scientific sense of "just a guess". So I'm sorry if you find that guess offensive, but that is my impression of your religion. Maybe you need a better PR department ;o)
Og hvorfor er det i øvrigt at du ikke gør grin med det Flyvende Spaghettimonster? Hvorfor skal religioner være hævet over at blive gjort grin med?
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
Since your clip is based on the argument that all religion should be taken equally serious I find it ironic that you take Christianity more seriously than Asatru. I think you believe Asatru to be roleplayers because roleplayers use Paganism in their games but that's not really our fault, right? Anyway, I can inform you that your theory on Asatru is very flawed.
Naturligvis skal man gøre grin med religion - helt så meget man orker. Det med spaghettimonstret var et forsøg på at være morsom.
Asaweb 4 years ago
I know, I know, it's a weakness of my christian upbringing that I am trying to overcome. But I do find christianity very silly indeed by now, I'll say in my defense.
(And no, the reason I hypothesised that asatru weddings were used by LARP'ers is because I could very well imagine several of my LARP'er friends who would think that was the height of cool.)
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
Hellenois: a cult which follows the religion of ancient Greece.
The Greek religion was tolerant of other religions, like most polytheistic religions.
philip1201 4 years ago 2
i really love your lolcat videos....
Roostring 4 years ago
that is a goodway to counter 'atheism is a religion to' or 'it takes to be an atheist' i sppluade you!xD
Erech01 4 years ago
"...I've been taught not to assume that even the simplest of arguments will be considered obvious..." Exactly! I've learned to never assume a theist has mastered 6th grade science, or that they will be insulted when an argument is dumbed FAR down for their benefit.
pmarie2003 4 years ago 2
atheism is a religion as much as bald is a hair colour...
funny thing is that they try to put atheists down by saying that we are as deluded as them... what a powerful argument ;)
tieInterceptor 4 years ago 3
The Simpsons always does it first...
subach 4 years ago
I love the image of the Richard Dawkins magic card! Where can I find it?
corridorofpower 4 years ago 2
Or put this way by Stephen Roberts
"I contend that we are both Atheists. I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
I personally like it a bit better than the Dawkins way of stating it, but it's still just as true.
calamariaxo 4 years ago
Does it take faith not to believe in an out of fashion god? You are very clever. It is an original twist on an original thought and you should be very pleased with yourself.
samten54 4 years ago
Everything has been thought of, the trick is to think of it again. - Goethe
I've been using that argument for decades, sometimes even using Zeus as the "start god," sometimes Thor or Shiva, although under influence of a friend I reserve Ramtha as a special treat for JWs.
While CO derived that argument from the concise Dawkins statement, Dawkins derived the statement - from the argument.
And around we go.
IsaacBickerstaffEsq 4 years ago
Religion is just a fan-club that has evolved over time.
In 400 years Elvis-fandom will be a religion.
ludersatan 4 years ago 2
I am soo using that the next time I hear that.
dechha1981 4 years ago
Hail Zeus!
TheKidFrom13thStreet 4 years ago 3
Wonderful video! Now please stop the wind here. Thank you.
nicanicabad 4 years ago
gonna have to use your phrasing to counter that argument
BallofJustice 4 years ago
Celling cat is watching you praying to your imaginary friend.
Boinkmakr 4 years ago
My God wields a hammer, your god was nailed to a cross. YOU DO THE MATH!! :D
BibleMaggot 4 years ago 2
As always
Good vid
666daedsidog 4 years ago
Brilliant!!!
tacoguy1988 4 years ago
kitties
RobAlone 4 years ago
I'm going to take a wild guess and say that most people who have Norse weddings are atheists. :P
lonelygreenteagirlie 4 years ago
when I was a kid, I was into greek mythology. at a certain point I stated to my family, catholic, that I had decided to worship the greek gods. my mom almost had a heart attack but my brothers and the other kids laughed at me (the other kids were also christians). funny part is almost everyone that laughed ended up becoming atheists or agnostics, except for my mom. hehehe
this video brought to my attention how things are so familiar on this never-ending "war" about belief systems and facts.
masana2007 4 years ago 2
Great vid!
I've been using a similar argument for years. In fact, it was just the same thought process that was one of the keys for me to break the spell!
Another way I've heard it put by the physicist Steve Weinberg, "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"
pandstar 4 years ago
"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"
That's actually a very sweet quote.
crazypants88 4 years ago
I don't think theist want to argue fairly with athiest. I just think theist want to be able to manipulate you and brainwash you and if they don't succeed, they'll hate you for it and say your weak, stupid, pathetic or use any other form of imposing negative feeling in hopes that the theist will successfully brainwash and manipulate the atheist.
RyunSharp 4 years ago
I think you right. for example what constitutes my atheism is not that difficult to explain. It gets difficult when theist lie " I do not understand , how , why , what " . Of course they do, they just don't want to. But explaining my personal point of view get really impossible when said theist stop inquiring about my personal position and start making non-nonsensical points about atheism and doing the roll reversal trick like the one this video is an answer to.And us fools really ponder them.
retepvosnul 4 years ago
Lol'd at the LARPers and Dawkins battlecard, I'm such a nerd. ಠ_ಠ
studio7manga 4 years ago
Sweet video as usual.
Masenko 4 years ago
O cap'n.... my cap'n:D
CHEEMA1990AJ 4 years ago
Richard Dawkin's says this all the time.
Good vid.
aquamammal 4 years ago
Should have finished your vid before I posted, lol.
Peace.
aquamammal 4 years ago
Live action role playing! Cool sign me up.
jedi1josh 4 years ago
thank you very much for this video. I'll be sure and use that argument. 5 stars man
ZachValkyrie 4 years ago
Yah, it's pronounced Zoose. Like goose. =)
Drekoguk 4 years ago
LOL, I thought he said "Jews" for a good portion of the video. I was like, WHAT!
korwinblue 4 years ago
My pronunciation sucks, I apologize ;o)
Zeus is pronounced "Soews" in danish, is my excuse, so I had to guess at the English pronunciation. Seems I fucked up ;o)
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
Are you saying Zeus or shoes?
lanz0r4tehwin 4 years ago
Stop asking theists to think about stuff. That be silly talk. Next you will be asking them to use that logicy and sciency stuff. Thems the devils tools.
lulz
Mjhavok 4 years ago 2
well i heard about a group trying to ressurect the greek gods
nailo1 4 years ago
The Norse religion and weddings are also practiced in Iceland, though I personally think that it is not so much of a religious thing, but rather a social thing. Which in essence can be said for any religion, I guess.
crazypants88 4 years ago
This was delightful, thank you. Thank you.
ThisIsGrand 4 years ago
I love that Jack's video response to my video was the basis for CapnOrdinary and TAA's responses.
Clean97gti 4 years ago
Ancient gods look so much cooler than gods nowadays.
Panman38 4 years ago 4
I was under the impression that theists reject other gods on the basis of their faith in their god, not on the basis of the absurdity of those gods. I think that's what causes them to think atheism requires faith, because that's the method they use to disbelieve all the other gods. Their claims to other religions falseness doesn't seem to be based on problems with those religions, but because their faith in their religion automatically denies the others.
theinquisitor 4 years ago 2
"Their claims to other religions falseness doesn't seem to be based on problems with those religions, but because their faith in their religion automatically denies the others."
You're right about this of course, but admitting it means that their faith is not based on rationally selecting the true religion.
Most theists, while claiming that faith with knowledge isn't faith, don't like to think their faith is arbitrary. The idea that the FSM is just as likely as their god is disturbing.
FaithIsImaginary 4 years ago
Ah, yes, but dismissing all the other religions on the grounds that you have found the one true religion is not rational, so nobody will want to admit that (I hope). Admittedly, that particular thought did not occur to me when I was making this video, I thank you for pointing it out to me.
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
I was hyped about the norse weddings, then you mentioned the LARP'ers, now I'm sad. Oh well, I still say Thor would murder Jesus in an arm wrestling match.
hanzo138 4 years ago
Zeus is the one true deity! Eat your heart out Yahweh!
Rorshak1313 4 years ago 2
sorry, some technical fuckup i guess,
for some reason the comments werent showing up and it looked like they were deleted.
sorry bout that, i been running into alot of trolls lately...
Vertigo6911 4 years ago
An Original Thought - By Jakebreaker
"The button on a clown's sleeve is tin-foil-ball-shaped... but only if he wears an eraser for an earring."
jakebreaker 4 years ago
BTW: I'm a big fan of yours.
jakebreaker 4 years ago
punk
Vertigo6911 4 years ago
LOL PWNT
ReligionIsACrutch 4 years ago 3
Are you stupid, or did you just not learn how this little thing called interactive websites work yet?
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
(referring of course to the "punk" comment by Vertigo, not RIAC's reply)
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
why u fucking with my comment?
Vertigo6911 4 years ago
What? The only thing I've done to your comment is respond to it....
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
awesome!
Blake97201 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
the reason atheism requires a measure of faith comes from the fact that we do not know where we came from.
science doesnt like unanswered questions, and has theories even to explain and make us feel comfortable with the fundamentaly unknowable.
its efforts to answer the unknowable gives rise to myths.
like the big bang.
ultimatly the big bang theory is the same thing as saying 'and god said: let there be light'.
Vertigo6911 4 years ago
Except for the minor addition of some actual real-world data, some maths, and some physics, of course.
Science has plenty of unanswered questions, that it does not try to answer, until there is some measure of available data. Unlike religion, which can answer any question with the versatile non-explanation "God-did-it".
The origin of the universe, the origin of life, etc, none of those questions are "fundamentally unknowable".
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
just saying there was a big bang doesnt make it so.
the truth is that is a theory based on speculation.
when u think about it though, it realy is a limit case for credulity.
seriously, to say the universe sprang from nothing in an instant for no reason whatsover...
i dare any1 to come up with something less likely.
yet this is somehow accepted as fact by atheists.
how do u not call that faith?
Vertigo6911 4 years ago
Oh dear, here we go with the misconceptions again.... Sorry if I sound impatient, but I've explained this what seems like a million times already:
The big bang is NOT "an explosion out of nothing". It is an expansion of already existing energy from a superdense singularity into an actual space-time continuum. And it is not faith, it's pure math and physics. AND: A scientific theory is not "based on speculation", it's based on observable, testable evidence.
CapnOrdinary 4 years ago
Yep. He should read Big Bang by Simon Singh and In Search of the Big Bang by John Gribbin. Two great books on the subject.
Mjhavok 4 years ago
Why do you think the universe had to come from somewhere?
Mjhavok 4 years ago 2
"Why do you think the universe had to come from somewhere?"
1/2
This is where most people misunderstand the workings of science. The same question might be applied to God: a christian would state that god created the universe, and an atheist might reply: whence god? The christian would answer: "Why do you think God had to come from somewhere?"
The point is, science doesn't actually tell us anything about the "origin" of the universe, if it even has any.
XGralgrathor 4 years ago
2/2
Science *does* tell us a whole lot about the universe *since* the beginning of the big bang. However, on t=0 (or sqrt(t)<0, if you swing that way) you're free to speculate. As long as your speculations concur with observable reality, just go right ahead.
XGralgrathor 4 years ago
"saying there was a big bang doesnt make it so."
This is true, but in the same sense that just saying there's gravity doesn't make it so. If you accept basic physics, the big bang follows logically when you combine it with observations of the universe.
The big bang isn't the origin of existence, it's the origin of our space-time.
The main problem with creator Gods is that they're not an explanation. They're simply giving a name to the problem and don't contribute to understanding.
FaithIsImaginary 4 years ago 2
"science doesnt like unanswered questions"
And yet science does not actually claim to have all the answers, let alone some eternal "Truth."
XGralgrathor 4 years ago
Vertigo6911
That's not Faith at all. NOT having all the answers is NOTI suppose you think we think 'Something came from nothing. YOU'RE the only ones who believe that. That's oart of YOUR mythology.
dechha1981 4 years ago
first im not religious in any way.
second, you do not have proof of the big bang, all u have is a current trend and a theory that may or may not explain its origin.
in any case there is nothing to prove it byond doubt, yet it is accepted as fact.
and that makes it a matter of faith.
Vertigo6911 4 years ago
"all u have is a current trend and a theory that may or may not explain its origin."
What the hell does that mean? Why do I always run in to people that have a thing for jargon. Just fucking say what you want to say! What "current trend"? What the fuck does that mean!? God damn I'm so tired of uneducated people.
Mordecai36 4 years ago
theres a contradiction in that last statement.
but anyways what it means is that the only thing we have to point at a big bang is that we know that the stars are currently drifting apart and the universe seems to be expanding.
and that we base only on observation.
we cant fly around in a space ship and take samples of everything.
some theories are impossible to test, but without anything to contradict them either,
they slowly pass into accepted truth.
Vertigo6911 4 years ago
1/2
"theres a contradiction in that last statement"
Good one. Ha!
No sir, we have much more evidence to back it up. I don't even know why we're talking about this. You should've done more research before commenting. Just to name a few:
Large-scale homogeneity
Cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR)
Hubble's diagram
The age of the stars
Fluctuations in the CMBR
The Integrated Sachs-Wolfe Effect
Mordecai36 4 years ago
2/2
Dark matter/energy
Abundance of light elements such as H, He, Li
The temperature in every direction being within .01 Kelvin
Fuck this I'm too tired to go on.
Jake
P.S. I hate arguing with somebody over YT. I quit. Don't know why I even said anything at all.
Mordecai36 4 years ago
I know what you mean.I make a comment and someone always wants to reply and then I feel I need to counter and it just does my head in after a while.
joeyoap 4 years ago
"second, you do not have proof of the big bang....."
You don't have proof you exist. No scientist has ever claimed they have proof of the Big Bang, any more than they claim they have proof of sunlight and rain. They have *EVIDENCE* for all of these: none claim they have proof.
Desertphile 4 years ago 2
yeah, the word 'proof' really annoys me also, its sounds like
'this is infallible evidence that nothing can disprove'
which isnt the case in science.
Erech01 4 years ago
"the reason atheism requires a measure of faith comes from the fact that we do not know where we came from."
"We?" I know where I came from. That you do not know where you came from is just goddamn sad.
Desertphile 4 years ago
Another awesome point!
I would love to see anyone answer that, well, any Theist.
ThatOneQuestion 4 years ago
Fuck you. I believe in Zeus.
TheAmazingAtheist 4 years ago 2
He didn't mean your former Mexican gardener you had in California.
Mjhavok 4 years ago
Thor is better!
RandomGuy432 4 years ago
I know you know that Aphrodite is a really hot and promiscuous. Lets not beat around the bush about such matters.
retepvosnul 4 years ago
Sounds like beating around the bush is precisely what you have in mind...lol
EvilZoe 4 years ago
"Not even the simplest arguments will be perceived as obvious by your intended audience."
LOL!
CousinoMacul 4 years ago